There are awful lot of zero-sum PvP games where the loser loses ranking, kill:death ratio and other stats. Yet these games are popular. The PvP games where you can farm XP and credits, therefore “progress” like in World of Tanks or League of Legends are even more popular, despite you still have losses in the individual game. I don’t think that the losses make EVE a small niche game.

It’s not even “unfair”, ganking PvP. You have little effect on the outcome of a World of Tanks game or a World of Warcraft battlegrounds. You are just one soldier in the battle. Sometimes the game is lost on loading screen due to matchmaking unbalance, teammate AFK or something like that. Still these games are popular.

The thing that all PvP games have but EVE doesn’t is the ability to trust in your teammates. In these games you fight side by side with other players. They might suck or even go AFK. But griefing is rare, banned and its effect limited to one short battle. Also, by handpicking your team, you can be 100% free of AFK-ers, noobs and griefers.

Not in EVE. In EVE a single hostile getting into your team can destroy a supercapital fleet, drop Sov, steal everything or simply go on an unstoppable awox spree. This is a bad design, not because these actions are “bad”, but because the individual player is completely powerless to do something about it. Only the leadership of his corporation/alliance can keep spies out. The little guy can only hope that they succeed.

You might say “but EVE supposed to be real”, but such spying power is not real. The president of a country cannot disable all infrastructure, grab everything in the treasury and jump it in a minute to a hostile country all by himself. Such act would need a huge conspiracy to bypass the checks and balances.

I do not suggest to ban spying or GMs reverse awoxes. I want built-in tools to limit the effect a spy can do. My suggestions:

– Remove highsec awoxing. Simply make shooting corpmates a suicide gank. Since there are duels, there is no legitimate need of shooting a corpmate.

– Make set standings take precedence over corp/alliance membership. If you set a corpmate -10, he still shows up as green and not red. Fix it, so a low/null awoxer can be marked after his first awox and also locked out of services. (I understand that instant-kicking is not possible due to abusing it to avoid war targets in highsec)

– Create a time lock for every possibly harmful activity. It can be activated selectively and makes actions like offlining a tower, SBU, TCU, cancelling a job, removing stront from the tower, disbanding the alliance, kicking corps or even members impossible. To perform the action, first you have to switch off time lock, wait 24 hours and then perform it. This way the members have 24 hours to respond before the bad thing happens.

– Daily withdraw limits to hangars and wallets. You can only remove this amount a single day. The limit itself can be time-locked, so the rogue director can’t just remove it.

– “Equal share” setting. By switching it on, the shares of the corporation are equally distributed between members all the time, allowing them to vote out the CEO. Protectable by time lock too.

– Automatic reimbursement feature. The replacement of lost combat ships are the largest ISK sinks of an alliance, so automatizing it would remove lot of ISK from the hands of people who could steal it. You just put the ISK to the reimbursement wallet and automatic algorithms send it to players who lost their ship in an eligible way. It would also remove huge administrative workload.

With such improvements, the players could more easily trust in their blues/greens, allowing much more players to participate in group content. And we know that group integration is the best predictor of remaining in the game.


  1. Kriegen

    I’m not sure about the timelock thing, but ideas like an in-game ship reimbursement are sound if it can be implemented. Tools to reduce alliance level logistics are a plus in my book. Hopefully the less time needed to be spent doing logistical stuff means more ships exploding.

    I agree that a change needs to happen to the high-sec awoxing thing. I don’t think it should be banned altogether, I’m fine with spying etc. But at the moment a player who is awoxing can safely have an army of logistics keeping them alive perfectly safe from everything but suicide ganking. Even if it was just those external logi being flagged to the corp members, there are too many things that are basically safe in EVE.

    Corporate espionage is something that makes EVE attractive to people and is a large part of the reason so many stories come out of this game, but I agree some things do seem almost too easy.
    Perhaps instead of the lockout just have the options for different almost ‘governmental’ systems within corps. Essentially putting in risk/reward.
    For example: 1) Dictatorship – current CEO system, can do whatever they want
    2) Oligarchy – shared power amongst a few, perhaps limited to a % of corp wallet withdrawal per day etc. Major changes like removing/adding ‘oligarchs’ requires vote.
    3) Democracy – corp sets limits to wallet access etc, roles can be arranged through voting etc.

    (1) will be quick and efficient but risky (2) will have more safeguards but be closer to the first, and (3) will give members more power but will make quick decisions and payments etc much more complicated.

    In saying that though, something like that might distract CCP from more important internet spaceship business. I’m mainly just sick of people trying to pretend they are ‘l33t pvpers’ by farming killboards in relative safety (like awoxers using out of corp neutral logi).

    October 27, 2013 at 1:44 am Reply
  2. How to spot a shit goblin post

    Ctrl+f ‘gank’. 2nd paragraph. Goblin needs new material.

    October 27, 2013 at 1:52 am Reply
  3. codo yagari

    Biggest load of shit I have read to date

    October 27, 2013 at 3:14 am Reply
  4. you again?

    Please go back to wow, seriously.

    October 27, 2013 at 6:27 am Reply


    October 27, 2013 at 7:41 am Reply
  6. ron w

    what dafuq is this? tought this was for eve news not crying that spys killed my hulk

    October 27, 2013 at 8:28 am Reply
  7. poor

    Gevlon is surely laughing his ass off about comments here. I think that’s the only way in his poor life to attract attention. :(

    October 27, 2013 at 8:31 am Reply
  8. Ashesofempires

    So long as there is incentive (economic or otherwise) to screw over the people you trust, there will always be theft, awoxing, and so on. It exists in small form in games like WoT and League, mainly kill stealing and such, but there’s no real incentive because it doesn’t help you win games.

    It definitely happens in games like WoW, where people yank their guildmates and faction allies off of cliffs with spells, steal guild banks, and disband guilds (disbanding a guild dumps the entirety of the guild bank, money included, into the mailbox of the guild leader, but doesn’t show up in the logs as to where the stuff went).

    Building in safeguards against such activity help, but don’t eliminate, the possibility of corporate theft. And there will always be awoxing. You cannot prevent a friendly player from coming along, checking out your bling fit, and then telling his neutral pals about it, or bringing his own neutral alt to kill you for your loot.

    I do agree though that things like ship replacement funds are commonplace enough that CCP should look at building some tools to handle it. In fact I think that CCP should invest a lot of effort into building the tools that groups like Goonswarm have assembled outside of the game, into the game itself.

    The game really needs a set of tools designed to ease the burden of running an interstellar empire. Financial tracking tools, API tracking tools, pos management tools would be good starters.

    October 27, 2013 at 8:46 am Reply
  9. Go to WoW

    Glevon, Please Unsub from EvE and biomass all your chars.. THAT would help EvE…..

    October 27, 2013 at 9:48 am Reply
  10. alotabull

    This is ALOTABULL !!!!

    October 27, 2013 at 10:06 am Reply
  11. incoming

    this guy

    October 27, 2013 at 12:50 pm Reply
  12. anon

    no troll here, just an honest critical review that i hope Riverini may actually read, however unlikely that may be. I wanted you to know EveNews was my 100% news source before you started posting Goblin’s stuff. It was the sole reason I decided to check out Mittani’s website as an alternate news source. Let me tell you, i’m a goon hater as much as anyone but the quality of writing there is FAR superior and they don’t post idiotic troll blogs like these. you’ve put a lot of work into your site over the years and it’s still a great news source that just needs some freshening up. consider ditching Goblin a “good start.”

    October 27, 2013 at 2:31 pm Reply
    1. EVE 24 Reader

      RIVERINI.. keep Goblin but please allow us to block idiot posters. Oh want.. it’s anon like mine.. well at least let us hide silly political flames like this so we can read the news. (Yes I would block my own response too!)

      October 27, 2013 at 4:21 pm Reply
      1. monkey

        Huh? You’ve got to be goblin. No one other than goblin could think the post you’ve responded to is anything other than accurate. It certainly isn’t idiotic.

        October 27, 2013 at 4:49 pm Reply
      2. give up and go home.

        Goblin stop replying anonymously to negative posts on your articles claiming you like what you posted, we all know its really you.

        October 27, 2013 at 4:52 pm Reply
    2. Selina

      I used to come here myself on a regular basis and participate in the comment discussions frequently. Then I started seeing regular posts by this moron. Showed me the real quality of this “news” site. Now, I only come here every so often when TMC hasn’t posted anything worthwhile or I’m really just that bored.

      October 29, 2013 at 12:52 pm Reply
  13. sour

    withe exception of the last option about automatic reimbursement which may actually be a good idea, the rest is bullshit. agreed that goblin should be kicked from en24 and preferably unsub and biomass all chars.

    October 27, 2013 at 6:33 pm Reply
  14. Willy

    Can u please hang yourself, you obviously have no clue how to play this game.

    October 28, 2013 at 1:27 am Reply
  15. Justin May

    You are a terrible troll. Go back to wow with your risk averse carebear ass.

    October 28, 2013 at 1:56 am Reply
  16. Glevon "the cock" Gobler

    “…World of Warcraft battlegrounds”
    I stopped reading here…

    October 28, 2013 at 7:26 am Reply
  17. boogieman

    boooohoooooo… why am I reading this shit?

    October 28, 2013 at 7:45 am Reply
  18. BS

    Gevlon Goblln, the seagull of eve, just keeps circling and shits everywhere.

    October 28, 2013 at 8:17 am Reply
  19. McCool

    You’ve been targeted for Awoxing for glorious tears and ragequitting

    October 28, 2013 at 9:49 am Reply
  20. nnezu

    Even as a director of a wormholecorp that occasionally recruits a really good corpthief, I must say that every point is BS. A timelock as proosed might work in highsec or SOV-null, but it would be impossible to take down a tower, manage the corp appropriately or run escalation payouts without waiting for consens (transactions for maintenance etc., even with our supersmall wh-corp shifts billions of ISK frequently – that timeblock would just slow me down from cheetah to snail when doing finace-stuff)

    Your proposals might be of mild benefit for highsec corps, but really, do you need those? Do you actually want to get concorded you actually send out warriors instead of armor.rep.drones to your corpie who is currently in very acute trouble? No? Kewl. So stop that no-shooting-corpmates in highsec bullshit.

    The other points are poorly thought out aswell, a corp system has to be usable by EVERY corp, so if there are two solutions, one is grim but works for everyone, the other fluffy with flowers, but only works in highsec (aka the space where leading corp is easy as shit), then sry, but pls go with the one that works for other people aswell.
    Also hinting that there is an Eve Online beyond the first lowsec you already avoid. Even people live there.

    And I’m not talking about 0.0-highsec either (the ‘left’ side of null) <.<

    October 28, 2013 at 1:27 pm Reply
  21. Sold

    The only thing in this article I thought had any merit was an automated reimbursement program. That really would lessen the administrative workload.

    October 28, 2013 at 2:08 pm Reply
  22. OPSEC Duder

    Shut up, Goblin

    October 28, 2013 at 2:24 pm Reply
  23. Im a highsec ganker but i cry

    Stop posting. You boast about how you suicide gank.. you’re on the Hulkageddon leaderboards.. then cry about how mean Eve online is.. make up your mind.. Actually, just unsub bro.

    October 28, 2013 at 3:29 pm Reply
  24. Popcorn

    Please keep writing these articles so I may continue enjoying these comments.

    October 28, 2013 at 4:16 pm Reply
  25. Gizzard

    No. Awoxing and the power of trust are what set this game apart. We aren’t playing wow here. We don’t need these damn babby rules. If you don’t like it, uninstall. I don’t care if eve has 30 million subscribers or half a million. It’s almost perfect and it’s the best game ever made because trust is nessisary yet hard to build. This is what sets EVE apart from every other game. EVE is more than a video game it’s a social experiment. None of us want to see it downgraded into just another video game. If you don’t like how harsh eve is go play something more forgiving, like any other game ever.

    October 29, 2013 at 12:33 am Reply
  26. damien

    Wasted breath. Wasting everyone’s time. More corporation and alliance controls is the answer but you are doing it all wrong.

    October 29, 2013 at 6:04 am Reply
  27. Tony Abbott

    The autism is strong in this one.

    October 29, 2013 at 9:04 am Reply
  28. WatermelonChickenJesus


    October 29, 2013 at 9:24 am Reply
  29. Are you serious?

    Dude you really should stick with hello kitty online WoT and whatever other stupid game you wanna play. Eve is and will ever be a sandbox MMO there you can disband an alliance when you are a director and there you can scam the shit out of everyone. In Eve a CEO is a dictator, equal shares for the members if the corp? You cant be serious about that…Automatic reimbursement? I mean what is going on with you? So you want that CCP creates a tool for an alliance where every alliance can add the ships they reimburse, the amount of reimbursement, and ofc the tool checks for the right fitting. and if not right fitted its not paying reimbursement. a Daily withdraw limit on hangars and wallets? That means if i want to start building a titan i have to wait a week because you want a limit that i can only withdraw xyz from the hangar? Shit dude.. your ideas are beyond stupidity.

    I bet your next cool idea is to say that we need the old sov mechanics back. Seriously think at least for a second before you throw out brainfarts. Specialy if you post them on a public site….

    October 29, 2013 at 10:34 am Reply
  30. Altrue

    What the ?!… Hey where you recently awoxed or something OP ?

    October 29, 2013 at 7:13 pm Reply
  31. Shitty EN24 ffs

    Good grief, this article is retarded. You call yourselves a news website? Kick this pile of shit out of your team if you know what’s good for you.

    October 30, 2013 at 12:45 pm Reply

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