Hello capsuleers! This is CCP SoniClover from Team Super Friends, here to tell you about Mobile Siphon Units. This is one of the four mobile structures coming out in Rubicon. The Mobile Siphon Unit is deployed close to Player Owned Structures (POS) and can steal resources from it. Before diving into some details, let’s start by looking at why this particular structure is being made.

We’ve been contemplating some sort of a moon raiding feature for awhile now. While the prices of high end moon mineral has fallen sharply after the rebalancing work in Odyssey, it is still something interesting and worthwhile. It also aligns itself well with our general intent to give players more ways to affect each other’s income than just through brute force. Finally, it allows us to strengthen asynchronous gameplay, where players can be interacting without having to necessarily be at the same place at the same time.

Now for some details. Note that all numbers and stats are subject to change.

  • Rubicon will have one Mobile Siphon Unit. This will be a small version (20 m³), so carrying one, or even several, is not much of a constraint for most ships.
  • The unit will have a BPO available in NPC stations. There is no tech II variant. Prices and material components are still being worked on, but should be in a ballpark of 10 million.
  • Siphon units are deployed the same as other personal deployables, where you just need to deploy, there is no anchoring or onlining. Once deployed, a siphon unit cannot be scooped up again. The name of the player that deployed the siphon unit is visible in Show Info.
  • Siphon units must be deployed close to a POS, outside of shields to a maximum distance of 50 kilometers from the control tower.
  • Siphon units can be attacked and accessed with impunity, there are no criminal or suspect flags involved.
  • Siphon units are not automatically attacked by POS guns. Players can take manual control of POS guns to shoot at a siphon unit.
  • Siphon units have an EHP around 50-100k (exact numbers to be decided).
  • The Small Mobile Siphon Unit in Rubicon can steal raw material (from Moon Harvester Arrays) and processed material (from Simple Reactor Arrays). It will prioritize raw material over processed material if both are available. It cannot steal alchemy output.
  • The stealing happens on the production cycles (once per hour). What is stolen comes from the production, thus items in storage are never stolen directly.
  • A siphon unit can only steal from the end of a chain. For example, if a POS has a two Moon Harvester Arrays that are both connected (through a Coupling Array/Silo) to an active Simple Reactor Array, then only the output from the Simple Reactor Array can be stolen. A siphon unit steals from a single chain each production cycle, so it cannot for instance steal both raw material and processed material at the same time.
  • The Small Mobile Siphon Unit can steal 60 units of raw material or 25 units of processed material.
  • It has a capacity of 1200 m³. If it is full, it stops stealing. Anybody can access the storage and take from it. It is not possible to put items into the storage. When you select a siphon unit, a bar shows you how full the unit is.
  • More than one siphon unit can be deployed around the same POS. They steal in the order they were deployed.
  • Siphon units also have a waste factor (assumed to be lost in transit). This wastes (destroys) a portion of what is stolen. The waste factor for the Small Mobile Siphon Unit is 20%.

This hopefully gives you a good overview of how siphon units will function. We’re looking into more versions of siphon units to add later (like in Rubicon 1.1). Larger variations would steal more, but take more room and potentially cost fuel to run. Other variations could steal additional types of materials, such as complex reactions or polymer reactions.

There’s more stuff to come from Team Super Friends, so keep your eyes open. Until then, let us know what you think in the feedback thread.

 

- CCP Soniclover

[ Original Dev Post]

66 Comments

  1. WWW

    So, some initial math for wormholers that may use these in null to ninja moongoo:

    Neo is 26k a unit, and to equal the supposed cost of the unit you need 373 units of Neo, which will take 7 hours minimum.

    Even Dysprosium (most expensive) will take 4 hours to equal the unit’s supposed cost, needing 212 units.

    Food for thought.

    October 17, 2013 at 6:09 pm Reply
    1. Truth

      No. Do you understand that WHs move? lol. The unit woudn’t siphon enough in time to make it worth while before the hole moved. They would end up with thousands of units all around the universe with no access.

      October 17, 2013 at 7:35 pm Reply
      1. Yahahiuy

        So as always, new content not worth investing in at this moment untill they up the cargobay in this thing or up the amount of stuff transferred to the unit/hour.

        A missed chance by CCP.

        October 17, 2013 at 8:07 pm Reply
        1. WWW

          It’s not missed. Rubicon isn’t even out and they could very well pull some tweaks off to make the new module cheaper or more efficient. Not only that, drop these in place with an Interceptor and GTFO. Sure the actual problem might be retrieving the stuff without dying, but I’d use something like a Viator or another Blockade Runner.

          Truth, I live in wormhole space and know the mechanics very well, why the hell else would I even mention the amount of time it would take for it to break even for wormhole dwellers if I probably wasn’t interested in it myself and just sharing some preliminary math?

          Considering all your not-so-thought-out posts above, you would do better to go suck off Goblin whenever he gets a sharticle here and tell him he’s absolutely brilliant.

          October 18, 2013 at 6:21 am Reply
      2. Justin Cody

        you’re a moron. Wormholes do move but they stick around for about 18 hours if they are fresh. *omg now wai*

        October 17, 2013 at 9:05 pm Reply
    2. Yahahiuy

      CCP is aiming at new players, it shows with that tutorial and certification system. Most veterans don’t care for that shit.
      So CCP is aiming for players that are still trying to make it big and are very happy when they ‘earn’ 10M after a 7-10hr wait. Veterans will say it isn’t worth all the hassle, especially since you need neutral alts to place siphon units at blue towers as CCP screwed the players by exposing the anchoring player.

      October 17, 2013 at 8:06 pm Reply
      1. oh

        its more about grief than profit, or so it seams from what they released so far. the module costs the owner of the tower more than the stealing player makes.

        October 18, 2013 at 4:35 pm Reply
  2. alx

    The hard part will be placing it 50km from a pos and survive…. and retrieve the cargo after it and survive… This distance could be rised to 300Km…. then it would be more usefull…

    October 17, 2013 at 6:32 pm Reply
    1. Chris

      An inty should be able to do it, pos guns don’t lock very fast

      October 17, 2013 at 6:38 pm Reply
      1. Ming Tso

        Inties don’t have 1200M3 of cargo space. I smell a use for Deep Space Transports finally! :D

        October 17, 2013 at 7:04 pm Reply
        1. WWW

          1200m3 is the capacity of the unit for stolen goods. The actual unit itself is 20m3.

          October 17, 2013 at 7:08 pm Reply
          1. Ming Tso

            I see, so you deploy the siphons with an interceptor, pick up the goods with a DST. I suspect we may see many dead blockade runners in the coming days.

            October 17, 2013 at 7:10 pm
          2. Playos

            Blockade Runner would still be preferred… getting a deep space transport in and out of hostile space is still an expensive mistake.

            October 17, 2013 at 7:48 pm
          3. Simon pieman

            Aye they will all be covert cyno fit and bridging across the galaxies easy peasy

            October 19, 2013 at 5:33 pm
    2. RA dude

      The good part is, not all poses are death stars, especially small ones.

      October 18, 2013 at 9:49 am Reply
    3. anon

      deploy it in a noobship, then

      October 18, 2013 at 6:56 pm Reply
  3. Chris

    I like everything so far except for the cost. I feel like that should be increased a little bit to compensate for the spammability of these things.

    October 17, 2013 at 6:39 pm Reply
    1. Deifirtep

      Considering how easy they are for anyone to access or pop, a price increase does not make sense. ie: risk vs reward. They have a small hold capacity which means you have to unload that thing with great frequency before you recoup any cost for producing the item.

      October 18, 2013 at 1:33 am Reply
  4. me2

    me, will wait what ppl with figure out what to do with them – not really impressed atm… 50kish erm

    October 17, 2013 at 6:49 pm Reply
  5. Padow

    Pretty stupid that POS guns will not shoot at them

    October 17, 2013 at 7:04 pm Reply
    1. Ming Tso

      No it’s not, otherwise they’d be useless.

      October 17, 2013 at 7:05 pm Reply
      1. Padow

        Eve is a cold hard world, i get that. It is also incredibly tedious. If I want tedious, I’ll spend more hours at work. This just makes eve even more tedious for anyone that owns a tower and collects goo to pay for said towers. If towers can’t be protected by guns, this is just more time that will be spent not having fun.

        October 17, 2013 at 7:17 pm Reply
        1. Chris

          You used to have to manage hundreds of poses in the old sov system. Consider yourself lucky

          October 17, 2013 at 7:21 pm Reply
          1. The Mittani's Vagina

            How is that different today? When did POS management become automated? Did you think before you posted? Unsub pleae.

            October 17, 2013 at 7:49 pm
          2. Chris

            Never said it was automated, but you have relatively fewer to manage. And at least the ones you do manage have more of a purpose than just filler poses for sov retention.

            October 17, 2013 at 7:51 pm
        2. sadfs

          Something that requires more player involvement and annoys big afk-empires? I’m all for it. CCP couldn’t care less if you think it’s “tedious” that you actually have to play the game and check up on your POS every once in a while.

          October 17, 2013 at 7:42 pm Reply
          1. Padow

            I do check my POS’s every once in a while. I check them every 1-2 days. Now I’m required to fly around and check all of my POS’s every hour?

            October 17, 2013 at 8:11 pm
          2. anon

            damn straight. why should you be able to earn money in total safety without playing the game?

            October 17, 2013 at 10:07 pm
      2. Ex-IRC

        Pos guns should shoot them, that way people actually have to put guns their poses. I see way too many ewar or resistar only poses lately.

        October 17, 2013 at 7:33 pm Reply
        1. anon

          what the fuck is this, kindergarten? you misspelled ‘Dickstar’

          October 17, 2013 at 10:05 pm Reply
  6. Truth

    So it’s pretty much a shit-ton of research and intel gathering… not to mention extremely dangerous to get close to the POS… Your stuff will most likely be stolen by someone else if and only if the owner of the POS isn’t paying attention to steal it back and destroy it…. And they will know when you come to check just by looking at local, you will probably be a -10 to the corp/alliance.

    Such a waste of development time and effort. FFS, how about fixing ugly ass ships? or refining SOV mechanics. Maybe limiting the amount of wardecs so that a few assholes can’t just infinitely wardec every fucking corp/alliance in EvE just for shits and giggles because they have infinite amounts of ISK by Goon/Somer connections. This idea should have been crushed the second it was vomited out by a useless “game designer” at CCP.

    All for a miniscule amount of ISK. The risk side far outweighs any possible rewards.

    October 17, 2013 at 7:34 pm Reply
    1. Chris

      I think you fail to grasp the main purpose of this feature. Its not necessarily so you can steal moon mins, but to limit the size of the empires that have arisen. The large you grow, the more manpower may have to be devoted to maintaining said empire.

      You’re funny, you talk about a waste of development time. Then you say to fix ugly ships. I’d say there are more pressing issues than ship designs.

      October 17, 2013 at 7:57 pm Reply
    2. Justin Cody

      Did you eat lead paint as a child? You can use a blockade runner or likely a cov ops frig to drop these off with 0 risk.

      October 17, 2013 at 9:03 pm Reply
    3. Billbo

      Go back to WoW if you want to be spoon feed gold coins.

      October 18, 2013 at 12:42 am Reply
    4. The Obvious

      Gtfo of my eve, your first complaint is ‘fix things so they look pretty’ v add/fix mechanics. This game is not for you

      October 18, 2013 at 7:55 pm Reply
  7. Truth

    The future of EvE does not look promising. If they are focused on developing stupid ass ideas like this and ignoring the problems that exist with what is actually there now then CCP better start planning its shift into another industry, perhaps vaccums… or maybe shitty little FB apps. I’m not going to put up with this “make life as hard and tedious for everyone as possible” bullshit that they continue to propagate. Switching max sub-cap indy haulers, drawing out skills while pretending to shorten them with less skills… just more skills to higher levels. Fix existing problems and limit the damage fags with too much ISK can do to troll others and quit giving us shitty little “expansions”. SOE ships? Really? That are not any better than what exists? Lame. Just Lame. This may be my last expansion with EvE. 5 years. The best expansions are those that fix/upgrade existing mechanics et al. This works, lame and illogical siphon units do not.

    October 17, 2013 at 7:44 pm Reply
    1. Chris

      Oh no, you can’t have a guaranteed isk printing press anymore with your afk poses. I feel terrible for you, I really do.

      Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

      October 17, 2013 at 7:48 pm Reply
    2. Playos

      Complaining about making things a pain in the ass… then notes 2 changes that by and large have been amazingly received and have made life much easier for most. The 1,500m3 off the itty5’s potential was well worth it for how much time was saved with the Epthil and Miamosa… plus you get even more cargo space with a bestower than you could with the old itty 5… HOW IS THIS NOT UBER WIN?

      Drawing out skill trains? Don’t know what the hell you’re talking about, cross training got a whole hell of a lot shorter for capitals/freighters, Orca and Rorqual both got a straight drop in required time, and the whole skill training system actually makes sense now.

      October 17, 2013 at 8:03 pm Reply
    3. tired of bitter vets

      meh, sounds like it could be time for you to go.

      October 17, 2013 at 10:34 pm Reply
    4. Wondering

      Yes, please quit now.

      October 18, 2013 at 12:16 am Reply
    5. Billbo

      your stuff can haz pls

      October 18, 2013 at 12:41 am Reply
    6. meeeee

      plz go play solitaire

      October 18, 2013 at 8:23 am Reply
    7. RA dude

      If CCP adds new content, somebody always starts complaining that they don’t turn enough attention to fixing issues. If CCP releases a pack-o-fixes, somebody always starts complaining they don’t give enough new content. /0

      October 18, 2013 at 10:02 am Reply
  8. Meh

    with these anchoring requirements (50km from pos shield) this will be a pointless module.

    these should be anchored just off grid… probeable… otherwise they will be insta popped by pos gunners (50k ehp is not alot)

    October 17, 2013 at 11:44 pm Reply
    1. Justanotherscrub

      the point is that now people will have to actually online pos gunner pilots and be actively defending poses instead of just forming up at reinforce timers

      October 18, 2013 at 12:43 am Reply
      1. Deifirtep

        Or, they simply pop it with a ship. POS guns are not the only thing that can shoot it.

        October 18, 2013 at 1:11 am Reply
        1. The Obvious

          You’re thinking on the scale of small time moon harvesters, these mods are meant more to disrupt the guy running 40 moons on his own with no logistics/day-to-day support.

          October 18, 2013 at 2:13 pm Reply
    2. The14th

      There is no anchoring. And by what the dev-blog said it may actually be a drop-and-go structure.

      October 18, 2013 at 6:47 am Reply
  9. sister_uta

    pls

    Seed the BPO through drops, just selling it is kinda lame.

    October 18, 2013 at 12:47 am Reply
  10. Deifirtep

    The best thing about this is that people will fail to see the ultimate use in this. It may not be necessary to recover the stolen goods, but diminish the capital gain of your opponent by simply venting it into space. The 10million cost point for these seems a bit high to me given the capacity of the unit and the vulnerability of the unit.

    Two ultimate uses:

    1 – Profit: you have to be able to recover the goods as well as the unit and, if you lose the unit, enough of the goods will have needed to be captured and sold/processed to pay for the cost of losing the unit.

    2 – harassment: you simply throw a bunch of these up on an AFK system with an AFK cloaker who periodically empties them or replaces them. Fit a covert Cyno to the cloaker and you can bring replacement units in via transport as well as remove materials. The main goal is to distract your enemy as well as reduce their income.

    October 18, 2013 at 1:48 am Reply
    1. Simon pieman

      Yeah i can see people using the cloaky warpy haulers to steal the shit and cloaky camp all in one, anyone fucks with them a covert cyno goes up and they get fucked up, ofc they will need to tank pos’s so maybe there will be a little more to it.

      I think these are a good fuck with you tool.

      October 19, 2013 at 5:28 pm Reply
  11. Matthew

    I think they should make these feed off the powergrid and CPU of a POS which would cause people to maximize the use of their POS – much like a parasite on its host. If there is not enough CPU/PG, then the things won’t work.

    October 18, 2013 at 6:13 am Reply
    1. The Obvious

      So people could put the cheapest isk per cpu/pg mods online til maxxed out and soon this structure becomes a museum item

      October 18, 2013 at 2:07 pm Reply
  12. YOLOMEISTER

    Free KMs, YOLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    October 18, 2013 at 10:43 am Reply
  13. Dave from FA

    Another example of new mods that are only going to be able to be used by FA. Due to the way FA is structured cleverly and PvP skills, only FA can benefit from this mod. It almost seems a bit unfair you other alliances are going to be nerfed so hard.

    October 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm Reply
    1. Why Bother

      Just stating the obvious because FA can enjoy its clever 58.7% isk efficiency.

      October 18, 2013 at 2:31 pm Reply
      1. Gront

        FA and efficiency, mutually exclusive concepts.

        October 18, 2013 at 4:08 pm Reply
  14. GrouchyOldGamer

    I can see Alliances putting bounties on these. I’m not sure they are as disruptive as people claim. Happily we’ve now adopted AFK renting so no worries.

    October 18, 2013 at 2:24 pm Reply
    1. FA best FA

      Wow you really don’t understand this game do you? You should try and join a better alliance and get some basic training. Contact us in game.

      October 18, 2013 at 2:32 pm Reply
      1. GrouchyOldGamer

        Pay your rent.

        October 18, 2013 at 2:50 pm Reply
        1. FA best FA

          We charge the rent. Since the fall of tech FA is the top CFC alliance by a long way. Its a genuine and generous offer I am making you. Offer is still open.

          October 18, 2013 at 2:54 pm Reply
          1. Bored

            CFC’s top alliance (oh I laughed), better watch out you GSF masters don’t hear you talking like that, you’ll end up on the naughty step for sure.

            October 18, 2013 at 4:06 pm
      2. Grof

        Rich coming from someone in FA, you lot put the lame in lame duck.

        October 18, 2013 at 4:04 pm Reply
  15. No moon goo for Mittens

    Poor goonies are crying rivers over on the Eve-O forums. The top goons see a big threat to their RMT operation incoming.

    October 18, 2013 at 4:43 pm Reply
  16. Tony Boycott

    I am all for it as soon as they come up with a POS remote manage skill so that once trained you can kind of do what we do with PI today. Instead of view in planet mode you would get view in POS mode where one could remotely take active ownership as pos gunner. The skill should then for every level give you a distance capability as we have with market orders. Say level 0 system only, level 1- 2 systems, lvl 2- 3 systems, lvl 3- 5 systems, lvl 4- 10 systems and lvl 5- regional control. It would still give that active requirement while not making the defense of said POS unbearable. The owner would still need to visit the POS to collect all assets with a “indy” as well as to add fuel. There should also be a mail that is sent when an unauthorized removal takes place. So if your having something stolen from you it would be apparent how much (due to only having one siphon unit available). But have it mail everytime its stolen from e.g. every hour a mail will be sent. so if you get 10 mails etc etc…you all get the picture. It solves the RMT without activity issue. I believe that a reasonable person would agree to this. What say you?

    October 18, 2013 at 6:31 pm Reply
    1. Tony Boycott

      And yes I can see where this could lead to people dropping POSs with just guns and remotely take an active defense. But that means a toon that is dedicated and can only manage one POS at a time. This skill should only be applicable if the POS is in NPC space (accessible to all except when criminal status or NPC standings are not sufficient to even drop a POS in said system) or if NULL space is owned by said Corp or Alliance (since players can’t deploy POSs individually but only for Corp). Better :)

      October 18, 2013 at 6:37 pm Reply

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