PvP-ers agree that there is no “skill” in ganking miners. However there is a problem: there is no skill in other forms of EVE PvP either (except for Alliance Tournaments). No, it’s not my opinion. It’s the opinion of everyone. I mean, there wasn’t a single PvP engagement in the ten years of EVE Online where the defeated side said “you were better, congratulations!” They always say “blobbing”, “outshipping”, “baiting”, “awox” or other form of unfair fight. There isn’t anyone in EVE who ever acknowledged the skill of the one who defeated him (again, outside of AT).

Seriously, is there anyone who says that CFC won 6VDT because the individual pilots were more skilled? Not even CFC does that. Or the PL supers with the Revenant were massacred because the BL pilots were outclassing them in piloting their dreads? No, even BL accepts that it was due to the awox of the PL FC. Is there any skill in assigning drones and going AFK?

PvP games, both on the computer (like League of Legends) and offline (like boxing) have a very strict ruleset that always determine the equal number of opponents, equal resources and playfield. They all limit the weapons/moves available (if you kick, or even if the weight of your gloves is a few grams off, you can’t box). Deviation from these rules leads to immediate bans/disqualifications. Only by these very strict rules can you guarantee that the outcome depends only on player skill.

Because of lack of these rules, the engagements in EVE are always ganks. An all-seeing GM can perfectly tell who will win the engagement before it happens. What you do in the engagement might affect the exact kill:death ratio, but victory or defeat is decided before the first shot. On the other hand no one can tell who will win the next AT, exactly because the conditions are equal and the player skill will decide the outcome.

The “PvP-ers” who look down on the “gankers” are self-deceiving liars. Their slogan “try shooting something that can shoot back” is a joke, since the PL supers with the Revenant are something that usually preys on capitals. But on that engagement they were baited at a hostile POS with their hard counter under the command of an awoxer. The TEST fleet in 6VDT was probably one of the strongest fleets EVE has ever seen. Yet they had zero chance to win because all POS-es were in CFC hands and CFC was on grid first. While both examples were considered very strong in general, in those circumstances they didn’t have more chance to win than a mining barge.

Of course setting up the trap for PL or the moon control for 6VDT weren’t random acts. They were planned by someone and this someone displayed skill. However this guy is an FC/mildir guy and not a pilot. He probably wasn’t even on grid. Claiming that there is no skill in EVE would be a joke. But this is a skill of generals, planners, politicians. But how is a gank-planner different from them? He found a weaker enemy, designed a hard-counter doctrine and trained pilots to do the footwork.

In EVE there is no such thing as “PvP skill”. No one acknowledges your skill (besides your blues) and it’s easy to prove that any engagements were decided by other factors (numbers, ship types, trap). The point isn’t that a “real PvP” pilot isn’t more skilled than me. The point is that he isn’t more skilled than the miner I gank. Or the rats the miner shoots. After all the “lock up hostile, activate guns” is exactly what the belt rat, the BL dread pilot or the CFC mega pilot does.

Of course people say that there is skill in hidden places like certain wormholes and lowsec parts where “good fights” can be found. The problem with this is indeed its hidden nature. If I’d go down to lowsec and kill ships, would that mean I found these hidden good fights and won, proving my skill? Or would it just mean that I was lucky and caught some noobs who were farming sec status tags? In lack of tournament or even a commonly accepted place for these “skill fights”, no one can verify or falsify the claim that by winning a certain PvP engagement one displayed this mythical skill.

The other common claim is “awesome PvP videos”. The problem with them is repeatability. There are several videos where some newbie golf player hit the ball into the hole from the first hit. Does it mean that they are awesome golf players? No, it was pure luck. If you sit a monkey down before EVE and wait enough time, he will make you an awesome PvP video. Of course in 99.99% of the time it loses. But what do we know about the win-loss-retreat ratio of Rooks and Kings or Rote Kapelle? Nothing. We only see the engagements when they made something awesome.

In absence of strict PvP rules, EVE isn’t a skill game. EVE is a strategy game. Anyone claiming to have “skill” demonstrates that he has no skill in the strategy part that matters.

– Gevlon Goblin

His EVE journey show a very interesting “outside the box” approach to the game, PVE and the trade hubs, reason for which we invite you to pay a visit to his blog.


  1. dog

    skill, can be found in mining itself, let alone a gank, or an epic battle,

    “PvP-ers agree that there is no “skill” in ganking miners” there is

    a non skilled pirate will tackle and kill a miner or miss the tackle,

    a skilled pirate will ransom or hold the captive using just some damage

    a cleaver pirate wil wait till the backup arrives and kill / loot everything

    Do not write such dribble “Because of lack of these rules, the engagements in EVE are always ganks”

    I have seen over 1000+ battles that say otherwise, and seen both loosing side winning side say well done….

    boxing v a real fight, just because there is no rules to a real fight does not mean the people involved have no skill……

    Eve is like chess x a gazillion except you need to think and act in one long steam, it is part strategy, part training , part natural talent that makes a skilled pilot

    October 12, 2013 at 10:51 pm Reply
  2. Nobody

    You’re assessment is as foolish as if someone had said piloting skill determined every battle. It’s somewhere in between. I’ve learned (the hard way) that it takes practice to be a better pilot- to either keep range on an enemy that can’t hit you, or else to close the gap when they’re kiting you. It’s tricky to do. You gotta pilot manually and time things perfect. That’s one example, but there’s more to piloting than “approach” and “orbit.”

    October 13, 2013 at 7:22 pm Reply
  3. Carrant

    So, because there are rules, no boxer is better than another boxer? Yeah. How is this “assessment” allowed at all?

    October 15, 2013 at 6:21 pm Reply
  4. xxxAlloxxx

    Trolling 101 here folks! The first time I click a eve24 link in 6months and it brings me to this piece of garbage. Business as usual here I see, moving on again.

    October 15, 2013 at 9:21 pm Reply
  5. stone

    So I was in arbitrator and I jump a gate sit cloaked dscan. Thrasher hmm OK. He lands on gate as I decloak. He jumps. I burn and jump thru. I decloak and align. Nothing on scan. Hmm. Well I’ll just turn around and slow boat back to gate. Has it been a minute alrdy? He’s local still. 10k to gate. I’m pie. Oh shit he decloaks and burns straight in and points me. I neut,vamp, scram, TD. Launch hobs. Noshieldss. Hobs in. Warrs out. Armor hull. Pop. Gf. That wasn’t elite pvp on either side but He took a fight. Proud of him. Its not always about being elite.

    October 15, 2013 at 10:58 pm Reply
  6. I GotSkillz

    I cant believe what i am reading here… this article is a fucking affront to all those who pride themselves on being skilled pvpers, particularly solo and small gang/outnumbered etc… I have visited this site daily for a very long time. After reading this complete shit of an article, i will be switching to the mittani’s site. I am fairly disgusted with what Ive read here today along with many others Ive shown this article to. Farewell evenews24… If you ever get rid of this fucking moron of a writer you have here email me and maybe ill come back… Im sure im not alone in this. Bare minimum a fucking apology is in order.

    October 16, 2013 at 4:25 am Reply
  7. Billbo
    October 18, 2013 at 12:35 am Reply
  8. ubk

    I used to fly a stabber f.i. or vaga (post nerf) and kite roaming fleets picking off anything that would come after me. I think it took skill to stay alive and avoid dmg, and the opponents would compliment me often for my flying in local

    October 21, 2013 at 5:00 am Reply
  9. GunnerWolf

    In other words another GG article ranting about how “I’m a ganker and people keep bitching about me being unskilled, so I’m gunna write some bullshit to stroke my ego”

    October 21, 2013 at 4:52 pm Reply

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