Comments

I believe EVE needs a trading-focused expansion. Why? Because in EVE, everyone is a trader. Of course most people are “traders” in the same sense as the Covetor-miner is participating in PvP. The previous expansions made several obscure or hard to handle features easier. Just consider the Odessey scanning changes. I did not scan before Odessey, besides the newbie scanning missions. I couldn’t be bothered to manually move the probes every time into the same damn formation. Since Odessey I scan a lot:

If I find miners in DScan with several belts, I no longer bother further DScan or jump around to see which belt they are in, just throw a cluster of pinpoint formation probes with 2AU range on the belts and they are found in one cycle. I often scan down miners outside of belts, they typically were in an ice anomaly which is no longer there, but they were too AFK to notice. So the Odessey changes gave me content, I’m one of the EVE players who are satisfied with the expansion.

I think a trading-focused expansion would similarly increase the number of people who engage in EVE trading in a positive, satisfying manner. It would also decrease the now extreme income difference between those who know how to trade and those who don’t. I do not think I “deserved” collecting half trillion ISK by safely sitting in a station and updating orders once-twice a day. My income came from being one of the few who was ready to go upwards in the snow in the very unfriendly trading interface and lack of tools. Most people, having no love for economy didn’t care and by doing so, they locked themselves out from the big money and were condemned to shoot rocks or red crosses for minimal wage. A trading expansion could open an easier way for them, just like Odessey it opened for me in scanning.

The expansion would both contain UI improvements and systemic changes, allowing the trader to focus only on the underlying economy and not on the clicky-clicky. I do not mention the small improvements here, just the features that change the gameplay. Of course for an expansion to be an expansion it needs lot of such small improvements.

The main feature would be the automatically updating order. Currently you set an order and it stays there until you change it or someone accepts it. This leads to 0.01-ing, as without proper knowledge of the item and proper economic knowledge one cannot set a proper price. He either accepts the current buy price (sells to a buy order) or the current sell price (sets his sell 0.01 below current). In the automatically updating order you set two more options: cut size and bottom. Every half an hour if you aren’t the lowest seller, the order is automatically cut under the current lowest by your set value unless you’d go below your bottom. While most people would still set 0.01 as cut, a single reasonable cut would be soon followed, so the price would find equilibrium faster. This way more people would set sell orders instead of accepting a buy order.

The second main feature would be a Jita price follower. Jita is the economic capital of EVE, no point acting like The Forge would be just another region. The change would make the Jita 5-days average price available everywhere where a price is displayed. If you open a market window anywhere, there should be a greyed order with that value. In the price history graph, the Jita 5-days average should be visible anywhere. The value approximation of items should be calculating with this price. When you set an order, there should be a line that compares the price to this value. If you set an order away from this, there should be a warning. No need to always query the Jita market, every item could have its Jita-5 days price cached every 2 hours and that value used.

The third feature would be a reprocess value calculator for both scraps and ores. It would use the mentioned Jita 5-days average to tell how much ISK would you get if you’d reprocess the item and sell the minerals, using your skills and standing with the station. Similarly to the Jita-5 days price, this price could also be cached with perfect refine so the actual calculation would only need to modify it with your skills and standings. The refine value would be available with the price assessment and on the sell window. It would give you a warning if you’d sell below reprocess cost.

The next feature would be a “mass sell/reprocess”. It would be very useful for looters and salvagers who end up with tons of random stuff. The feature would replace “Sell this item” if you have more than one item selected. The input fields are

  • “manual price limit”, if an item is more expensive (according to Jita-5 days) than this limit, it won’t be mass sold, you can handle it manually later.
  • “Jita lowball”: it’s given in %. If you set it to 90%, and the highest buy order is below 90% of Jita-5 days average, the item won’t be sold.
  • “Make sell orders” is a checkbox, selecting it opens the menu selecting the length of the order and another box allowing you to set a Jita %. If you choose this option, the item which wasn’t sold because of the “Jita lowball” will be sold via sell order, setting the percentage of Jita 5-days as price. Another checkbox appears “sell it even if there are lower sell orders”, if you uncheck it, it won’t make sell orders which aren’t the lowest.
  • “Reprocess if better” is another checkbox, which automatically reprocesses the item if the reprocess value is higher than the buy order (and the item wasn’t put on sell order by the previous item)

Market order change should be able not just change the price, but also the quantity. If I have a sell order and want to sell more items, instead of creating another sell order, I could just increase the item count of my current order.

The final big change would be using the older order instead of the newer. So if there is a buy order for 1000 ISK and I set a sell order for 100, the immediate sell should happen on 1000ISK and not 100 like now. It would not only protect against mistypes but also would make large quantity buys-sells easier: you just type in the quantity and some high/low price and you get the items for the same price like you’d buy the sell orders or fill the buy orders one by one.

- Gevlon Goblin

His EVE journey show a very interesting “outside the box” approach to the game, PVE and the trade hubs, reason for which we invite you to pay a visit to his blog.

94 Comments

  1. Really?

    As a newbie, and a station trader who has traded on isk I bought with PLEX every day for the last 2 months. I stopped reading right here: “I do not think I “deserved” collecting half trillion ISK by safely sitting in a station and updating orders once-twice a day.”

    You have NO FUCKING CLUE what you’re talking about.

    September 25, 2013 at 12:10 pm Reply
  2. Hell

    I came here for news….left with nothing more than an oppinion….how saddening….

    September 25, 2013 at 5:45 pm Reply
    1. Guest

      First time to EVE News 24 then?

      September 26, 2013 at 7:45 am Reply
  3. Nomad

    Dear players; stop crying and complaining – what Goblin is saying is IMHO a move into right direction. Don’t criticize him only because he wan’t to change something or because he is richer than you.
    Best regards

    September 25, 2013 at 6:56 pm Reply
    1. BS

      Obvious troll is obvious

      September 26, 2013 at 9:16 am Reply
    2. Playos

      A dude who can’t shut up about killing afk miners wants CCP to in-house market bots… and your first thought is “The people who call him dumb for it are just jelly trolls”… really?

      September 30, 2013 at 4:51 pm Reply
  4. F'k Sake

    Is there a Ad block filter for this drivel that I could use?

    September 26, 2013 at 5:57 am Reply
  5. the equilibrium is a lie

    “so the price would find equilibrium faster” … is a myth in eve online.
    on real market it exists yes, but in eve it simply is about timing. Are you the lowest seller the moment someone decides to buy or not?
    Only a few people are waiting for a specific price. Most enter system, look at the orders, maybe curse the current price and hit the buy button anyway.

    September 26, 2013 at 9:52 am Reply
    1. Playos

      While it’s a stupid idea (since it kills trading as a profession)… He’s not wrong that prices will find equilibrium faster. In RL we have the same issue of convenience vs best price and there are lots of different shoppers. Value hunters drive down prices for everyone, convenience buyers keep volume predictable and steadily profitable.

      September 30, 2013 at 4:49 pm Reply
  6. Loot Fairy

    Sad nobody’s thinking about what would happen if the “auto update orders” thing actually got implemented. Within 2 hours the price of trit would equal that of PLEX because you’d have 2000 players +0.01’ing every 30 minutes.

    September 26, 2013 at 10:41 am Reply
    1. CarlGustav

      not to mentioning Autoupdateing prices is ehem Automatisation and that my friend is if im not mistaken against the EULA. so NO they will not do that sure its GG wet dream but have no fear there is noone in CSM that is going there noone as its just plain dumb.
      it promotes AFKing and thats nothing that should be promoted.

      and his so called Trading related expansion well GG there is a ton more work that needs to be done with Invention/Manufaturing then there is with trade.

      to mass reprocess simply click Ctrl+A and rightclick and select “Reprocess”

      For the purpoes of mass sell it sounds like automation.

      Eve is a game about risk/rewards. automation will never be endorsed. so please go back to your “MARKET PVP” and continue clicking every item over and over.

      the only thing i want in a market order is to be able to expand previous orders.

      for example i got an order to buy 20x items and i need to buy 40x more

      now i would want to expand the previous order to 60x instead of having two orders out one for 20x and one for 40x.

      September 26, 2013 at 11:25 pm Reply
  7. my 2 cents

    Even your advice for economic matters is shit. You don’t even understand opportunity cost. Let me explain Goblin, when you spend an insane amount of hours figuring stuff out (like you have with the markets) that time is calculated into how much you actually make. You seem to think that the amount of time you put in to finding ways to make income passively doesn’t factor in to you isk per hour.

    How it really works is that if a player only has 1 or 2 afternoons to make isk in a week or two. They are better off making 100 million per hour blitzing lvl 4’s (almost anywhere) then they are spending most of that time analyzing the markets, only to find they need more capitol to really profit. The money from grinding is guaranteed to be in your pocket in a short amount of time.

    For many people, our income is to support what we actually enjoy, combat with other humans in spaceships. If I spent tons of time learning and analyzing markets instead of just jumping into the grind, every 5 minutes I am LOSING the money I could have made missioning.

    The really funny thing is that even the people who are just grinding missions like me, are usually doing it wrong. They are not maximizing their efficiency to get the most isk for their time. I’ve seen so many people who are convinced, (and convince others) that the most you can make running lvl 4’s in high sec is 25 million an hour. I make triple that doing the same missions. I grind a few afternoons a month and plex 2 accounts and have a loaded hanger for doing what I actually want to do in eve, killing players.

    I use the markets too, I invest extra money I have to roll it over into more money with almost no effort. Some items and their values I’m very familiar with from my own experience (things I use and have bought or sold at multiple locations.)

    Now if you want to get space rich, over the next several months and that is your goal in eve, you have the cash to invest and the time, then spend hours on end learning the markets and methods at various locations in eve. Do what Goblin does. If like me “Ain’t no one got time for that”, grind for a few hours and pay for a weeks worth of pvp and have fun while learning the part of the game you enjoy, and get a rush from.

    September 26, 2013 at 4:08 pm Reply
  8. CBF Trading

    I like all the ideas, but I can understand the reservations against auto-updating etc. Still things like mass-sale options would be great. I don’t want to spend ages learning the market, or setting up orders, or even just trying to sell 300 different types of items from salvage. I often just want to sell the shit so I can get the isk to buy stuff to get blown up. The less time I have to spend trying to make the isk, the more time I can spend exploding ships (the player kind).

    The market UI is in need of a good shake up.

    September 28, 2013 at 6:09 am Reply

Leave a Reply