First of all, I’ve no problem with game mechanics that help protect players to some degree, such as Crimewatch and CONCORD and security status. Game mechanics are objective criteria and rules. They apply equally to all players, without prejudice. I’m also in favour of educating players about EVE and its many dangers.

My problem lies with subjective rules, such as those in the EVE Online Naming Policy and the Terms of Service. Subjective rules will always be applied unevenly, even given the good intentions of CCP Games. I think where possible, CCP should strive to eliminate subjective rules and replace with either objective game mechanics or work to further educate players.

Two simple things CCP can do. First, fix the font. Especially so that a lowercase “L” does not look like an uppercase “i”.

Second, a UI window that educates. Below I include an example of a very simply UI window that would allow CCP to eliminate all rules concerning impersonation and representation of other players from the Naming Policy and the Terms of Service documents. The only rules remaining would pertain to impersonation or misrepresentation of CCP employees and representatives. Otherwise, everything else is fair game and it is up to the players to protect themselves and to protect their own reputations.

(Rules concerning the alteration of EVElopedia and other CCP web properties are another matter altogether. I’ve no problem with those being off-limits where impersonation and representation are concerned.)

The UI window below works two-fold. Both as a warning to players and as an education into the harsh realities of EVE Online. The window also ensures that new players are educated on the realities of EVE early. To ensure that players receive said education, the UI window would appear before the completion of all contract, send money and trade transactions. The window would function in completing or cancelling those transactions. The window would appear a minimum of 10 times (thus the counter in the lower left corner) before it could be disabled via the option menu. All players are forced to see this window at least ten times during their EVE subscriptions, thus no player can claim that they were unaware of fraud, extortion and racketeering among players.

Thoughts? The text can obviously be altered and extended as necessary. And I wrote it fairly quickly, so there are some silly grammar errors in there.

- Poetic Stanziel

You can read more of Poetic Stanziel’s opinions at his Poetic Discourse blog.

156 Comments

  1. whyowhy?

    i thought he quit eve.

    why’s he still writing?

    September 23, 2013 at 6:00 pm Reply
    1. Meep

      As far as i am concerned he can write as much as he wants. What i don´t like though are the desperate cries for attention he posted on every eve related forum in the hopes that even my dead grandfather got the memo that Poetic is actually quiting Eve.

      September 23, 2013 at 10:18 pm Reply
    2. rusrus

      Because he thinks he can muse about eve intellectually even though he doesn’t actually play.

      September 23, 2013 at 10:22 pm Reply
  2. santa

    didn’t you quit?!

    September 23, 2013 at 6:29 pm Reply
  3. Soulxlight

    Problem is Poetic . . . dumb people don’t read. No matter what you put in place to protect the ignorant . . . they’ll continue to get scammed.

    September 23, 2013 at 6:30 pm Reply
    1. 404 Not Found

      Sorry I didn’t read your comment could you make a TL’DR for me?

      September 23, 2013 at 7:10 pm Reply
      1. asdf

        TL:DR: don´t loot dem jetcans on undock.

        September 23, 2013 at 10:20 pm Reply
    2. Aenaenon

      Yes, they will keep getting scammed. However, some players, especially newbies, don’t always understand how unforgiving New Eden really is. With this in place, they cannot say that they haven’t been warned.

      September 23, 2013 at 7:15 pm Reply
      1. Filip Viruk Drab

        but you can’t really scam a newbie out of a titan, can you?

        September 24, 2013 at 9:14 am Reply
  4. Billbo

    You should been a blowjob to a homeless guy with AIDS

    September 23, 2013 at 6:53 pm Reply
  5. let people make mistakes. it is the only way they will learn. Babying people does not help them.

    September 23, 2013 at 7:10 pm Reply
    1. Filip Viruk Drab

      Actually it does in high sec. Much like laws protect people in RL :)

      September 24, 2013 at 6:20 am Reply
      1. nigger jim

        nothing except a gun and a bulletproof vest will protect you in real life. the police arent proactive (i.e. prevent crime) they are reactive (catch people who do it)

        September 24, 2013 at 6:29 am Reply
        1. Filip Viruk Drab

          You misunderstood me. In RL when you commit a scam and they (the law enforcing entities) find out, you’re going to jail and will have a permanent record of your crime, just like when you steal stuff, kill people and so on. In EVE you can do (or could do, lol) all this stuff without any repercussions against you (lowered security status is a lol). Now you get banned and the scammed player gets his stuff back. The “protect” part in my post was referring to putting people in prison, so they are not a threat to the society for some time, thereby protecting the law abiding citizens.

          September 24, 2013 at 6:38 am Reply
          1. nigger jim

            in eve concord kills your ship. which is essesially a “multi-million dollar” “fine” when you commit a crime (scams are not a crime get over it) we dont have space jail since we could just kill ourselves in it and be in a new clone several systems away anyways.

            September 24, 2013 at 6:45 am
          2. Filip Viruk Drab

            that’s why there are other solutions the law abiding citizen may require from CCP.

            September 24, 2013 at 7:07 am
          3. nigger jim

            what the fuck are you talking about? thats why we DONT need anything else

            September 24, 2013 at 7:19 am
          4. Filip Viruk Drab

            A scam is considered a crime IRL, is it not?

            September 24, 2013 at 7:59 am
          5. nigger jim

            eve is real

            September 24, 2013 at 4:17 pm
          6. Filip Viruk Drab

            Nowhere in my post I said anything about EVE being real. There are some similarities in the mechanics though, with all bad decisions being punished, apart from scamming people out of their ISK.

            September 24, 2013 at 4:40 pm
          7. nigger jim

            before this gets longer than the article, re-read that “scamming is not a crime” and that ccp encourages it as a form of gameplay

            September 24, 2013 at 5:46 pm
          8. Filip Viruk Drab

            apparently not anymore :-)

            September 25, 2013 at 6:03 am
  6. Stop Failing EvE News

    No one could care less about this kind of thing. The only thing people want to read on EvE News is battle reports, preferably involving well know alliances. Posting about anything else really is a wast of time. Measure your article by the number of comments they get. Any that get below 100 comments is an epic fail.

    September 23, 2013 at 7:23 pm Reply
    1. Dirk MacGirk

      Took a fleet to kill an offline Tech moon tower yesterday. Then went 10 jumps and almost caught a carrier, but he got into a pos and jumped out. So we killed his unstronted tower. Then we went back in a big circle and killed a Panther that was messing with a guy re-towering the tech moon. Then we went home. Had to actually fly like 12 gates in a row one time. That sucked. We need more titans to bridge us around.

      There, a battle report. Did anything else happen in Eve that mattered yesterday? Make some news dude. Commentary is a part of every news organization and usually something they fall back on because of a slow news cycle. If you want to read news, go to TMC and tell us what is happening in LOL or Kerbel.

      September 23, 2013 at 8:30 pm Reply
      1. Wut wut?

        Opinion pieces have their place. But a news site should´nt feature them exclusively. EN24 just has way to much of those these days. Actual, objective journalism covering in game events has become a curiosity on this site. Look at the article MS published on TMC about the SC Nyx. The subject in itself wasn´t ground breaking but it was a nice and informative writeup of an ingame event. The EN24 article on this subject reads more like: “SC Nyx goes boom after Titankill, LOL!”. I don´t say that TMC is the holy mother of objective journalism, it is indeed far from that. But once in a while they manage to put out those quality articles covering stuff that actually happens in the game and not some meta-forum-warrior-opinion-blog-piece-of-meh.

        September 23, 2013 at 10:45 pm Reply
  7. 2.4

    Didn’t you quit!?

    For fuck sakes.

    You MUST be really butt hurt with the ToS changes!

    September 23, 2013 at 7:36 pm Reply
    1. Mmmm, Cukes.

      You don’t need to pay an EVE subscription to post on EN24, you know. Speaking of which, I have an amazing cucumber gardening article I need to post here today…

      September 23, 2013 at 8:47 pm Reply
      1. asd

        Sadly, you don´t need a brain as well (not directed at Pathetic in this case, since he actually wrote a decent post).

        September 23, 2013 at 10:05 pm Reply
  8. wow

    This is probably the most sense you have ever made

    September 23, 2013 at 7:48 pm Reply
  9. Community service provider

    Why is everyone so hard on the predators that feed on the weak and stupid?

    September 23, 2013 at 8:05 pm Reply
    1. Filip Viruk Drab

      EVE is cold and harsh, right? :D

      September 24, 2013 at 6:19 am Reply
  10. guester

    When paying alliance fees, or dealing with a third party, it is too easy to hit ‘show info’ and double check. I have no clue why this was implemented. Now I can’t claim to be me on an alt? Wtf

    September 23, 2013 at 8:07 pm Reply
  11. Dirk MacGirk

    Their impersonation crap isn’t about protecting the person who got scammed. It’s about protecting the reputation of the person being impersonated. That person doesn’t get a chance to read a pop up.

    The foolish part of all this is that in trying to protect an “innocent” third party, they protect the person who got scammed by undoing the scam. That isn’t right. Fuck the impersonator, but don’t unfuck the scam victim.

    September 23, 2013 at 8:11 pm Reply
    1. DubbaYooArr

      This exactly.

      September 23, 2013 at 8:18 pm Reply
    2. rusrus

      Don’t fuck the impersonator at all. Peoples reputations should not be invincible to defamation.

      September 23, 2013 at 10:45 pm Reply
      1. Dirk MacGirk

        I’ve argued that point too. But apparently some people have a thing for their e-reps. Either scamming and law breaking are A-OK and innocent bystanders get fucked along with the intended target, or there need to be mechanics to be played that can handle both sides. A middle ground to me is super stupid.

        September 23, 2013 at 11:34 pm Reply
        1. rusrus

          erm, isn’t everything in EVE somehow harming innocent bystanders? That’s like saying remove the ability to have sov because of the innocent renters that could be living there. I mean seriously, one of the best things to do to an alliance/corp after you fuck them over is to claim you’re part of some elaborate spy network from like PL or N3 that tries to destroy the income of people, so more people go grrn3 or whatever alliance you claim to be a part of.

          September 24, 2013 at 2:05 am Reply
          1. Dirk MacGirk

            Hey, I’m not arguing in favor of it. I’m just saying why CCP has focused on impersonation. It’s not about the guy who gets scammed. It’s because of the “innocent” guy who wasn’t knowingly a part of the scam.

            September 24, 2013 at 2:17 am
          2. rusrus

            Well yes, but this is a sandbox and your actions effect the entire game. I know you’re not arguing in favor of it, it’s just annoying that CCCP Believes this is a good way to go. They should let impersonation go for anything except character names or CCCP elements (ISD GMs etc). This is a sandbox not a fucking Jane fucking Austin novel.

            September 24, 2013 at 2:37 am
          3. Dirk MacGirk

            Agreed. As CCP said, its under further review. people who are really serious about it ought spam the CSM reps to get them vocal about it.

            September 24, 2013 at 2:55 am
          4. I just do not know

            I tried that and I ened up with Malcanis who is a complete cunt…

            September 24, 2013 at 8:38 am
    3. Callous

      Why not just Fuck everybody? Let the 3rd party take the hit, ban the scammer, and don’t reimburse the victim.

      September 24, 2013 at 12:22 am Reply
    4. seriouslythough

      The part I don’t get, is how hard is it to make contact with these “innocent” third parties, to verify references and webpage ads? The whole idea of an innocent third party is a role playing thing, and in the case of the hacking of the website, since this role playing is depending on this out-of-game advertising for its authenticity/legitimacy, why the hell isn’t hacking a wiki, while quite a sneaky ass play, perfectly legitimate within the overall metagame taking place outside of the eve client? If I put up a wiki article that says “Hey bro, I am a legit broker, here are my agents:” and don’t understand what a fucking wiki is….. too bad.
      Maybe not being available to verify this third party status in game with the proper toon is a metagame thing, and should be gameable through anything.
      I don’t know why we are protecting this innocent third party game style in particular. Just because their playstyle is “honesty”, why are they protected? If I play an honest miner… how am I protected? If play an honest trader, how am I protected?
      Why can’t I pretend to be a goon recruiter, even if I’m not a goon. How hard is it for someone to get that reference verified?
      But then, its perfect legal for a goon to pretend to be a goon recruiter, and gank all your shit, pod you, and post funny stories about it online? Not to mention this rental empire… while I’m not accusing goons at all, I’m just saying it would be perfectly legal for it to all be a huge scam. Or for them to change their mind at any moment and blow everything up and say “ha ha, biggest killboard EVA”.
      I ask these questions not with tears because I’ve been a victim or because I’ve been a scammer. I’m just asking because it seems weird rules for a game like this. They advertise to “be the villain”, but then make some (rather easy to protect one’s self against) villainy illegal, just because some dudes lost billions and titans.

      September 24, 2013 at 9:05 am Reply
  12. imsosly

    So you want EvE to turn into Windows Vista.. “Are you sure? Are you really sure? This time are you positive? Are you really honestly truly sure you want to proceed? Are you sure? You really want to proceed?…”

    September 23, 2013 at 8:50 pm Reply
    1. Guest

      Are you sure you want to repackage the selected items?

      September 24, 2013 at 7:05 am Reply
  13. imsosly

    No. I learned EvE on my own. And as a result I understand the true harshness of the environment.. unforgiving. I don’t want 13-year-old Call of Duty d-bag dudebros infecting EvE. They cannot handle not having everything handed to them on a silver platter. You are looking to make EvE more idiot-player-friendly… In that case I agree with Sheldon’s comment on Windows 7 being more user-friendly: “I’m not sure how I feel about that”.

    September 23, 2013 at 8:53 pm Reply
  14. Chribba

    Die.

    September 23, 2013 at 9:05 pm Reply
    1. Filip Viruk Drab

      I have a feeling you aren’t really Chribba.

      September 24, 2013 at 9:23 am Reply
      1. Chribba

        Die

        September 24, 2013 at 9:54 pm Reply
        1. Filip Viruk Drab

          Wow, you’re a one track record, aren’t you?

          September 25, 2013 at 6:04 am Reply
  15. Dragon Outlaw

    I wonder how many times in high sec did someone who got fucked, managed to have IS real sweet (and HARD!!) revenge on the same guy that fucked him in the 1st place. I am not sure it happens enough! Villains are fine, and CCP should not protect people from them. But I am under the impression that players who decide to be villains in Eve dont get much “pay-back”. Am I wrong?

    September 23, 2013 at 9:18 pm Reply
    1. Dirk MacGirk

      That’s correct. It’s probably the only mechanic in Eve where there is next to nothing you can do to retaliate. PL may hot drop you and you may not be able to do much to get back at them, but the option is there. Not much chance at retaliation against scammers. But Eve is a cold, dark place, right? Flipping a can has an offset. Scam a guy for billions? Nope, just another funny day in Eve.

      September 23, 2013 at 11:32 pm Reply
      1. Filip Viruk Drab

        That’s quite different. When PL hotdrops you you can always contact someone like snuffbox or BL and tell them you’ll try to bait them, just be ready. They probably won’t refuse and you’ll get your revenge by a few PL cap kills. The scamming is different though. You’ll get no revenge at a player that never undocks and all he does are scams. Also, yes, EVE is a cold, dark place, but that doesn’t mean that High Sec shouldn’t really mean high sec (faster concord reaction times that would prevent ganks, permanent “scammer” or “ganker” record on a character that would be visible at all times, punishable miner bumping, etc..)

        September 24, 2013 at 6:13 am Reply
        1. I just do not know

          Lets take the PL example a bit further, we know that there are old players who just scam and have multiples of accounts, they spend their time getting into corps and cleaning them out, those people you have no chance of getting back at because they sell off the toon and do it again with another account, for scammers using multiple accounts there is no accountability, simple as.

          September 24, 2013 at 6:48 am Reply
        2. Lawl

          Lol nullsec bear thats afraid of hisec cause he may get ganked…
          What next? Ban pvp in eve cause its to brutal and hurts your feelings as a human ?

          September 24, 2013 at 11:36 am Reply
          1. Filip Viruk Drab

            lol high sec ganker that thinks 40 vs 1 freighter is elite PVP comes at me on internet forums. dolan pls. Nobody said anything about banning PVP, but the punishment should fit the crime. At least from the POV of the fella who loses a freighter to catalysts or arty nados in high sec system.

            September 24, 2013 at 2:26 pm
        3. I just do not know

          Poetic deleting my comments again.
          PL scammers of course are impossible to get revenge on, they just activate another account from brought toons, you have no chance of getting back at them…

          September 24, 2013 at 12:38 pm Reply
          1. Filip Viruk Drab

            If you ban them the toons will not come back. And to scam someone out of a really big sum you need a toon that looks trustworthy, and such a toon costs quite a lot of ISK. So maybe something can be done about that too.

            September 24, 2013 at 2:24 pm
  16. ???

    I thought you quit.

    September 23, 2013 at 9:55 pm Reply
  17. jfc123

    Two things:
    1. Just have it display once the first time that someone does something like what you mentioned. This will just help newbies that just started like a week ago.

    2. Add to make sure that if they claim to be an alt that they actually are.

    September 23, 2013 at 10:14 pm Reply
  18. rusrus

    This is so fucking dumb. How is this fixing the issue at all. This is more of a preventative measure that will cause even more trouble for people who legitimately trade. Go back to not posting your shitty articles you fucking mongoloid.

    September 23, 2013 at 10:20 pm Reply
    1. Guest

      It’s fixing the issue by clearly letting the player know this is a game where scamming is allowed. So if – when – he gets scammed and bitches about it, all CCP has to do is point to the warning he got and tell him to get the fuck out because they did warn him so he can’t blame anyone but himself.

      September 24, 2013 at 7:03 am Reply
      1. Filip Viruk Drab

        Like now they can point him to “don’t trust a person you don’t know” and can tell him to fuck off. But they won’t, because too many people are complaining about scams?

        September 24, 2013 at 9:11 am Reply
        1. BS

          It all started when Gevlon Goblin joined the game. The retarded part of eve coming out, and starts to talk about their vision of EvE

          September 24, 2013 at 11:27 am Reply
  19. nigger jim

    i thought you quit? cant you just go away?

    September 23, 2013 at 11:58 pm Reply
  20. Callous

    Seriously, if you need your hand held to play this game, you might as well just quit.

    September 24, 2013 at 12:19 am Reply
    1. Filip Viruk Drab

      Seriously, I don’t want to quit and at the same time I don’t want to get scammed and I’m glad CCP starts to protect players. Ganking should also be either banned, or there should be a permanent “mark” on a ganker toon forbidding him from entering high sec.

      September 24, 2013 at 6:07 am Reply
      1. nigger jim

        cry more highsec pubbie

        September 24, 2013 at 6:07 am Reply
        1. Filip Viruk Drab

          I live in 0.0 space for more than a year, before that I was in WH space for 6 months, friend. However, I will cry and CCP quite probably will try to protect HS players more. Get over it.

          September 24, 2013 at 6:23 am Reply
          1. eurynome

            yes, because dumbing eve down is what this game need.

            look at the trend of the player number, since january, it’s falling like a freaking 12 tons rock (and even faster since odyssey), and guess what? since january, CCP keeps dumbing eve down (with a big hit on odyssey).

            clearly, this is wrong, dumbing eve down is very bad for the game, we love it because it’s harsh and cold, and piece after piece, CCP is taking this out of eve, so players quit….

            September 24, 2013 at 8:39 am
          2. Filip Viruk Drab

            Really? I thought that they made a milestone of 500k subscribers in February, after they started to “dumb down the game”, as you say. Do you have any data to back your claim up with numbers of cancelled subscriptions, or some such? Also, can you prove that, even if there is a decline in subscriptions, it is directly related to what you say? Wasn’t it just the periodic summer decline and now the numbers will go up again?

            September 24, 2013 at 9:07 am
          3. eurynome

            do you have numbers to prove otherwise?

            it is easy to see that many ppl left, just look at this: http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility on the “all time” you will see it

            at first, i thought it might be just me having this thought that there was less players, then i saw some leaving myself, mainly after odyssey release, then i took a look at the graph

            also, beside dumbing down eve, what does odyssey brought? nothing, so a big acceleration in player number drops right after odyssey, i’ll tend to think that players don’t like dumbing down and left because of it, yes

            September 24, 2013 at 11:15 am
          4. I just do not know

            Idiot, there are many reasons to leave the game, some people get bored with it, some people don’t like the amount of scamming, the fun part of this is of course to understand that you have no understanding what these numbers mean, it could be that a large number of accounts were activated for a war and then disactivated, well who would have thought that!

            September 24, 2013 at 12:35 pm
          5. Filip Viruk Drab

            Now take a look at 3 month history, there you see a very slight decline, but nothing to be so dramatic about as hint to the “EVE is dying you guyz”. Also, you don’t see a evidence of a massive unsub in the 6 months history, do you? Also, there was a huge war CFC vs. ex-HBC during which the subscriptions rose a bit and now that the war is over and content was washed away by a sea of blue people let their subs run out again. I definitely wouldn’t panic over this.

            September 24, 2013 at 2:22 pm
          6. BS

            No it’s not, some of my friends left because of that. You don’t see this because you have people around you who are content with the dumbing down just like you. Please go be dumb somwhere else. Maybe WoW or something.

            September 24, 2013 at 11:21 am
          7. Filip Viruk Drab

            Never played WoW, didn’t like the graphics. You can cry on these forums all you like, but having a simple ToS change to get rid of scammers will not ruin the game. 0.0 will pretty much be owned by 2 – 3 coalitions, Low sec will be pretty much empty… the only thing that changes is that now, much like during ganks when you lose ships, the scammers will now face some kind of punishment, even though if only while pretending to be someone else.

            September 24, 2013 at 2:19 pm
        2. I just do not know

          I was called a pubbie by a PL splergelord, so I pointed out that I had many more kills themn him and then innocently asked him if he had a Super (he joined from Test you see.) Funny thing was that he did not return to the thread, surprised, not really. Pubbie is a hollow term created by idiots to make themselves feel less of an idiot, but confirming to others that they are in fact idiots…

          September 24, 2013 at 12:32 pm Reply
          1. lol

            Because killboard stats are now relevant and display the skills of a player. Some of the best PvPers in this game, using their whole knowledge of game mechanics to their advantage, have rather shitty killboard stats. As long as you think kills and stats mean anything in this game, you are just that, a pubbie.

            September 24, 2013 at 12:51 pm
          2. I just do not know

            Actually my 1v1 stats are pretty damn good (I don’t use OGB’s either), and I have done a fair amount of small gang stuff and his kills were just F1’ing in Test blobs, so I stand by my original comment, see you proved yourself an idiot by throwing that stupid term around, lol

            September 24, 2013 at 2:16 pm
      2. I just do not know

        Thetre is nothing wrong with ganking, though here is the rub, I would remove the station services from people with -10 in HS. I personally have no issue with scamming if done in game, there are however structural issues with Eve like the inability to link accounts to players which makes scamming and spying so easy and foisters out of game activity.

        September 24, 2013 at 6:45 am Reply
      3. translation

        I want to play WoT in space. All hail MOBA!

        September 24, 2013 at 9:57 am Reply
      4. Logic

        “at the same time I don’t want to get scammed”

        Well…erm…than how about actually getting a grasp of the game and its possibilities and..you know…learn how to not get scammed. It´s not that hard if you are not totally braindead.

        September 24, 2013 at 12:19 pm Reply
        1. Filip Viruk Drab

          I never got scammed, though I understand the people that did. My corpmate once took a break from EVE, since he felt that there is little point in playing a game in which you can lose everything in few minutes. So far I was lucky to meet only the fair folks, that instead of ripping me a new one did the opposite and helped me.

          September 24, 2013 at 2:14 pm Reply
  21. that guy

    no one cares, unless they are retard

    September 24, 2013 at 12:51 am Reply
  22. Dennis the Dreamer

    CCP r world police? damn!

    September 24, 2013 at 1:08 am Reply
  23. abc123

    The only people who have issues with this are who?
    DISHONEST –>> SHITBAGS <> POETIC STANZIEL <<– AND OTHER WHO LIE – CHEAT – STEAL.
    Is it does not effect honest people. The change in the TOS does not effect them. So please keep on crying the SHITBAG you are and like always I'm sure with your meta gaming and SKYPE talk with your CCP DEV BRO's it will be change soon.

    September 24, 2013 at 1:15 am Reply
    1. no

      Did you forget this was a game or something? Don’t be such a dick.

      September 24, 2013 at 1:30 am Reply
      1. I just do not know

        Haha, the question is have they forgotton that it is a game, some people play eve for a totally different game… its not about spaceships for them… but the meta game of stealing shit and ruining corps and causing havoc for others. question are they playing the game?

        September 24, 2013 at 6:42 am Reply
        1. Atogrim

          There is another way to play eve?!? Lies!
          MAIM KILL BURN!

          September 24, 2013 at 8:35 am Reply
          1. I just do not know

            What you mean actually shot space pixels, perish that thought…

            September 24, 2013 at 12:28 pm
          2. I just do not know

            Shoot shoot shoot, damn that keyboard!!!

            September 24, 2013 at 12:29 pm
    2. nigger

      “as a mentally retarded, gullible nigger who can’t play eve for 10 seconds without getting scammed, ganked and shit all over, I demand that CCP protect me from people more intelligent than myself”

      get owned, you disgusting autistic pubbie fuck

      September 24, 2013 at 2:18 am Reply
      1. Filip Viruk Drab

        You sound butthurt, m8.

        September 24, 2013 at 9:09 am Reply
        1. BS

          No you sound butthurt over your lack of inteligence.
          If you to stupid to play EvE just dont play, don’t enforce laws that will defend your stupidity.

          September 24, 2013 at 11:17 am Reply
          1. Filip Viruk Drab

            Surprise surprise, if the general EVE playerbase want something to be done about scammers, then something will be done about scammers. It’s the ultimate tool of the players to play as they like > go to CCP and ask for a change in the rules.

            September 24, 2013 at 2:10 pm
      2. bs

        You would be suprised how dumb you are compared to some of niggers. But yeah good point otherwise.

        September 24, 2013 at 11:25 am Reply
    3. Guest

      I am a ~honest person~. I never scammed anyone. I never got scammed by anyone. I warn people against scams. But I still think the change is retarded. Why?

      Because I’m not a self-centered prick who thinks all playstyles but mine should be nerfed to the ground. Just because you personally don’t give a shit doesn’t mean nobody does.

      September 24, 2013 at 7:01 am Reply
      1. tearharvester

        I think the part you are missing, is that for us “honest folks” this tos change is like winning the metagame.
        And your tears, they are delicious.

        September 24, 2013 at 7:28 am Reply
        1. Guest

          “I think the part you are missing, is that for us “gullible morons” this tos change is like winning the metagame”

          Fixed that for you.

          September 24, 2013 at 8:26 am Reply
          1. Filip Viruk Drab

            No, he got it right the first time.

            September 24, 2013 at 11:08 am
    4. Atogrim

      This sounds a bit like “if you have nothing to hide why do you mind?”
      I have nothing to hide and i still mind.
      Shit like that is takeing the freedom out of the game.
      And thats what most ppl play it for.

      September 24, 2013 at 2:06 pm Reply
  24. Jerry

    Nobody has been banned for the reasons the ToS was changed for, and I’ll be suprised if any ever are, which is why the whole “I’m quitting the game because of the ToS” thing makes Poetic Stanziel sound just like just like Arydanika. Someone that was looking to quit the game rages about something totally trivial.

    September 24, 2013 at 5:16 am Reply
    1. Dark Distric

      From the ToS:

      “5. You may not
      submit any content to any chat room or other public forum within the
      Game that is harassing, abusive, threatening, harmful, obscene, libelous
      or defamatory, encourages conduct that could constitute a criminal
      offense or give rise to civil liabilities, or is unlawful in any other
      way, including without limitation the submission of content that
      infringes on a third-party’s intellectual property rights.”

      Half or more of the EVE pop. has, and does break this “rule” everyday. Sure some have been banned for it, but it’s few, and far between. One of the only times I can think of someone getting banned for it was when some dude(we all know who) made a powerpoint presentation about about how everyone should harass some other dude because he was a carebear or something….

      September 24, 2013 at 5:28 am Reply
      1. BS

        Put few links to boobies in fleet cha and see what happens. I was really disapointed that ccp find boobies ofensive and i can get banned if I continue.

        September 24, 2013 at 11:10 am Reply
  25. smart guy

    Also make the 0 have a / through it so O and 0 look different.

    September 24, 2013 at 5:51 am Reply
    1. neon

      impersonating a zero as a different character?

      That’s against the TOS -> ban incoming!

      September 24, 2013 at 2:07 pm Reply
  26. DS

    You forgot the “Don’t show this message again.” option box which 99% of everyone will use.

    September 24, 2013 at 6:27 am Reply
    1. Filip Viruk Drab

      Let me tell you what would happen: Newbie would try the “market adventure” by buying / selling stuff via contracts –> he would get tired of the above suggested screen and would tick the “don’t show me this shit” box –> eventually, he would get scammed and would cry to CCP he got scammed and that they should protect him more –> ToS change

      September 24, 2013 at 6:42 am Reply
      1. Loot Fairy

        I support the “dont show again” feature, just because it allows dumb people to be dumb, and I dont discriminate against dumb people.

        September 24, 2013 at 9:47 am Reply
      2. Delve

        CCP would however see that he ticked the box at 3/10 views and thus would not act or refund anything because he was not completely aware of what’s going on in EVE in this regard.

        September 24, 2013 at 10:19 am Reply
        1. Filip Viruk Drab

          They do so now, if the crying is loud enough.

          September 24, 2013 at 10:22 am Reply
  27. GrouchyOldGamer

    CCP’s job is to make money, if they think softening the game will do that – that’s what they’ll do.

    September 24, 2013 at 11:09 am Reply
    1. jeanluc

      This right here. This happens in every MMO game eventually, and it makes perfect sense. I don’t know why people expect that Eve would be any different.

      I’ve been playing Eve for several years now, and it still kills me how a portion of the player base gets bent out of shape over any change that it made to the game (or TOS).

      September 24, 2013 at 6:10 pm Reply
  28. AngryBear

    Its CCPs Job to get more players to earn some money.
    It is not the job of some faggot players to tell how other players shall play the game.

    To tell how the game is to be played obliges only to CCP, not to pathetic stencil, nor to CravenJames315 nor fuzzy_mittens.
    Get used to it.
    Dont like it?
    Piss of and try to tell Blizzard or EA what they shall do…
    CCPs Job is to protect Players from harrasment and harrasment is something that some players think it might be “fair play”

    September 24, 2013 at 11:28 am Reply
    1. Atogrim

      Blaaablaaablaaaa…
      Blizzard has a net-inc possibly 50 times higher then CCP. Awsome comparison.
      CCP depends on the null sec community.
      They are makeing the game interessting.

      September 24, 2013 at 12:09 pm Reply
      1. I just do not know

        The null sec community are a load of splerging turds, they spend their time moaning about people that do not want to play the game under their terms, simple test, check how many nerf HS threads there are. So this game is pressing F1 in 10% TiDi, no thank you!!!!

        September 24, 2013 at 12:27 pm Reply
        1. Atogrim

          Well, see it that way:
          the loudest are usually not the main part of players.
          That counts for bears as well as for the nullsecs.
          Nullsec is much more then pressing F1 on an overloaded server.
          Come by and i will try to show you around.

          September 24, 2013 at 12:45 pm Reply
          1. AngryBear

            The loudest in the moment are –> stupid scammers. scammers that use scams so old that only newcommers dont now them.
            Why do they cry?
            Because they scam so stupid that only noobs might possibly fall for them?
            Pro scammers will try new ways and need more effort to scam.

            September 24, 2013 at 2:04 pm
          2. Atogrim

            The bears are no less loud.
            EvE has always been and alwas will be an emotional game.
            people are never happy if other people (never mind their intentions) are trying to take something away from them.
            Do i like scammers? No.
            But the rules we are brabbeling about here won’t change anything about the noobs that get scamed.
            It only makes things harder for people who use existing gamemechanics as (in my opinion) valid method of war.
            Can’t say i like that.

            September 24, 2013 at 2:12 pm
          3. I just do not know

            I spend most of my time in 0.0, I just don’t want to be in and therefore am not in these major alliances. I have lost count of the number of threads I have seen where 0.0 players are pushing to nerf HS, especially in terms of ISK generation, but now that they have better industry they have started attacking refinery rates and even having ore in HS. Like many who don’t play their game, I make ISK in HS and roam in 0.0, one because I don’t like being in these TiDi battles and second because most of the people I have come across leading these alliances are dictorial tossers of the first order..
            Anyway I think Eve has a problem, in that it is not attracting new people and many people like me see certain issues with it and decide to play at a low level or do something else, X-Rebirth is coming out mid November, I am highly likely to put my accounts on ice for at least 6 months and maybe longer and you can bet that I will be playing Star Commander.
            The Null Sec bloc have a big voice in terms of the game, mainly because the big battles get headlines for CCP. As a result when you see these campaigns to nerf HS you get concerned, very concerned.

            September 24, 2013 at 4:10 pm
          4. Atogrim

            We all took breaks. More then one actually.

            And in my opinion there is no need to nerf HS.
            Actually i would love to see that null sec depends more from high and the other way round so that both parts have to work closer together.

            I know i will get killed for that but:
            the missing Avatar is one of the points that make new players avoid eve.
            I still think WoS WAS A GOOD IDEA. it would have attracted a shitload of new players.
            Well, playerbase voted against it. So it seems we dont want new players.

            September 24, 2013 at 4:27 pm
      2. AngryBear

        Awesome, i made no comparison.

        :P

        You missed my point completly.
        Some Players think they can order CCP around. Blizzard/Vivendi would ignore them, so should CCP.

        > CCP depends on the null sec community.
        No CCP depends on customers, not some smug nullsec wannabees.
        They want EvE more interesting for more customers.

        September 24, 2013 at 2:15 pm Reply
        1. Atogrim

          And you missed mine as it seems.
          Companys like Blizzard or who knows not just dont have to care playerbase.
          Because of their size.
          CCP has to.
          And the “smug nullsec wannabees” are a damn big chunk of the playerbase.

          September 24, 2013 at 2:27 pm Reply
          1. AngryBear

            >> And you missed mine as it seems.
            no, not really.

            >> Companys like Blizzard or who knows not just dont have to care playerbase.
            You read what you are writing? Thats plain bullshit.
            They have to consider customer wishes too to a certain degreee or the customers will leave.

            >> Because of their size.
            >> CCP has to.
            And their seems to bee some players that think thats its allright to blackmail/extort ccp.

            >> And the “smug nullsec wannabees” are a damn big chunk of the playerbase.
            *You* are a big chunk of the playerbase? well thats really smug.

            And this “chunk” has to tell CCP and all other players how EvE should work?
            Why not let nullsec PvP guy play for free, since they “make the game interesting”?

            September 24, 2013 at 2:48 pm
          2. Atogrim

            Right, let me sum up your opinion.
            I am a nullsec player, thats why i am wrong and have no rights.
            You are some kind of bearish thingy and thats why you opinion is more important and has more wight to CCP.
            It’s not like you are as well trying to tell other players and CCP how this game should work.
            No ofc not! Because you are the shining angle of rightfulness speaking for all those hurted bears out there.
            Sounds valid bro.

            Bliz and co give a flying fuck about their players.
            Nobody said something about blackmailing. This is utter nonesens.
            I am just stateing that you can’t ignore a big part of the playerbase because ppl like you are upset with how things roll in eve.

            On a sidenote: most nullsec players play for free. deal with it.

            September 24, 2013 at 2:59 pm
          3. AngryBear

            >> Right, let me sum up your opinion.
            you try

            >> I am a nullsec player, thats why i am wrong and have no rights.
            first fail

            >> You are some kind of bearish thingy and
            yes you are right

            >>thats why you opinion is more important and has more wight to CCP.
            second fail

            >> It’s not like you are as well trying to tell other players and CCP how this game should work.
            >> No ofc not! Because you are the shining angle of rightfulness speaking for all those hurted bears out there.
            >> Sounds valid bro.
            I am not speaking of carebears.
            I am speaking of newcomers.
            Sounds better sis?
            CCP needs more customers, especially when Mr Chris Roberts and his Space Citizens enter the MMO scene.
            CCP needs an own opinion and needs to listen to ALL players and that includes carebears as well.

            >> Nobody said something about blackmailing. This is utter nonesens.
            Having the Monocle-gate in Mind, i think (= my opinion is) that there are some players thinking they could force ccp into something.
            But well, could be nonsense.

            >>I am just stateing that you can’t ignore a big part of the playerbase because ppl like you are upset with how things roll in eve.
            >> On a sidenote: most nullsec players play for free. deal with it.
            So why should CCP care for the opinion of ppl that dont pay for their game?

            Noobs, rooks and carebears bring money for CCP, so why wouldnt it be logically to protect those from grievers and gankers?
            Especially those poor grievers and gankers that can only pray from the weak.
            Dont get me wrong, i respect Nullsec Game (and Players) a lot –> EvE Gaming
            JamesCravem325 and his StupidOrder are not –> EvE Gaming, thats harrasment and exploitation of game mechanics.

            September 24, 2013 at 3:35 pm
          4. Atogrim

            Ah.
            Point taken.
            I must admit that i just didn’t realize CCP and/or EvE players seem to be affraid of star citizens.
            That actually is an valid string of argumentation.
            And yes mommy that sounds way better.
            No problem with protecting noobs.

            But for sure there are ppl out there that take exploiting game mechanics to a whole new level, no doubts about that.

            My problem with this whole topic is that by enforcing some new set of rules you will probbaly hurt a lot of players that were never the real target of this enforcment.
            It’s that shotgun approach that makes me mad.

            September 24, 2013 at 3:47 pm
          5. AngryBear

            I think one needs to consider, that CCP unlike any others, offers some fixed Ingame / Outgame trading with PLEX / ISK Exchange. Given that, CCP may have a quite problematic position, if some scammed guy will try to enforce justice through a RL Court legal decison.
            That would justify CCPs actions.

            September 24, 2013 at 3:58 pm
          6. Atogrim

            You mean there is no real difference between scam and theft/robbery?
            Interessting point of view, never thought about that.

            September 24, 2013 at 4:04 pm
          7. Rammy

            The way i look at it, Eve online, was made by its creators to be the Perfect sandbox game. A perfect sandbox game means: It is completely player driven, every aspect of the game is chosen by the voice of the community. Eve has done that, Through many sources, one especially being the CSM. Now when most of your CSM is owned by Null-Secians, Who do you think has the bigger voice? Personally, to be the “Perfect sandbox game” There should be no rules that the players have set forth, and the CSM hasn’t Voted through to being rules.

            Thanks to legal issues, game mods, rada rada they have to have things like EULA’s and Terms of Service, because you don’t want your sand box to be a Bot Box. In a sand box, Scamming/Theft/ Corp espo is something you have to deal with, If you don’t like it, Only trade with people you can trust. Make your own stuff, and just stay in a new-player corp. The game can be played like that, i know many people who do. So CCP having to do what it’s players want, That is kinda the point of a sandbox, Thats the reason we have a CSM, The game has shifted this way, because its players from previous years, and if you haven’t been playing since atleast 2005, Withhold your comments because you have no idea how the game was back then, The players shifted the game this way, and it took this long to implement that. So its going to take just as long to shift it back.

            September 24, 2013 at 4:40 pm
    2. nnnope

      CCPs job is to earn money.

      CCP earns money by having subscribers.

      Now, let’s assume there’s a potential subscriber. Question. Why should he choose EVE over any other game? There are many MMOs out there. Many are coming out every year, more modern and appealing to the modern player. What is there in EVE that sets it apart from it’s competitors? If EVE-as-it-is has subscribers, it means that CCP does something that appeals to those subscribers. It has it’s niche. It has something it’s good at. The problem is, for a clueless shareholder there’s only one dimention to a game – the money it makes. By his definition, CCP does it worse than Blizzard in every known way (because there’s only one known way). So instead of doing goog what we know we can do good from our point of view as an artisan, we are expected to do something some other people are good at because “it’s good for business” (whose business?). We are expected to leave back our position as the King Of Tears and compete for the title of King Of Pink Fluffy with HelloKittyOnline.

      If you’d seen a dual-nano abaddon on a random killboard, you’d scream BLASPHEMY!!! on top of your lungs, but for some strange reason the thought of CCP doing the very same thing with EVE would seem perfectly reasonable to you.

      September 24, 2013 at 1:16 pm Reply
      1. AngryBear

        >> Why should he choose EVE over any other game?

        EvE is in the Moment the only Space MMO i know of.
        Thats why i play it.
        But that might change when Chris Roberts MMO comes out

        Why not a safe haven for beginners?
        only the weakest and dumbest PvPlers need to prey on the weak.
        Boasting about tears, but when their easy earnings are to end, they cry the biggest tears evar!

        September 24, 2013 at 2:22 pm Reply
      2. I just do not know

        I play eve as its hard, however in some areas its really easy, and what I mean is corp theft and infiltration. That is so easy its ridiculous, and there is no real protection as you cannot check out the player joining your corp. And as there are a large amount of people who do corp theft and infiltration behind their multiple accounts its a real lottery. Once you realise this then you start to have issues with Eve, it is where I am now, I cannot see anyway to deal with it and still be stratigically relevent, so the game is flawed at that point. And I think that this is one reason why Eve loses a lot of people and is not attrative to people. Eve was my first MMO and I had not really thought through this issue, but I reckon a lot of people who have played various other games can see it and therefore say, no way!!!

        September 24, 2013 at 3:40 pm Reply
        1. not a solution

          The proposed ToS changes will do nothing with corp thieft. If anything, for a corp thief it’s vital to be seen as a very much real and legitimate player, not an impostor.

          You could probably improve the situation slightly by making corp roles more manageable, but fundamentaly, it’s a matter of trust. And trust is not a technological category. There’s no such thing as trust-by-design. Trust is always a player decision. If corp thieft is easy, it means that people trust other people too much and too easy. Probably because they don’t really see the corp thieft matter as something worth being tinfiolhat paranoid about. Corp thieft protection, too, is subject to effort/gain. And in the end, the real effort here lies outside the game mechanis – it’s about knowing real people. There only way to reduce such an effort is to have a tool that can tell you which REAL person is behind that player character. This is, of course, legally impossible. And increasing gain by having an “undo corp thieft” button is unEVElike. What makes EVE the game it is, is having consequences for your decision. If the thief is lacking consequences for his actions, then evening the playing field by removing responsibility from the victim will not fix the game, it will make it more broken. Fair, yes, but fundamentally broken. It’s “everybody dies in the end” kind of fair.

          September 25, 2013 at 5:26 am Reply
  29. BS

    This whole mess started when Gevlon Goblin joined the game. All idiots coming out now and crying that they should be protected. Soon EvE will be another Farmville, where ganking is considered harrass and we will get instances in null sec as the only place to PvP….

    September 24, 2013 at 11:31 am Reply
    1. I just do not know

      Scammer tears best tears

      September 24, 2013 at 12:24 pm Reply
      1. BS

        I never scammed in my EvE history…

        September 24, 2013 at 2:08 pm Reply
    2. Filip Viruk Drab

      People who will (maybe) quite EVE as a result:
      1, gankers
      2, corps war deccing 0.0 entities to kill freighters / indy ships
      3, corps war deccing industrial entities (mining corps / alliances in high sec)
      4, scammers

      who else? :D

      September 24, 2013 at 2:06 pm Reply
  30. Atogrim

    This complet discussion renders me speechless.
    I am playing EvE since years now.
    I never scammed anybody nor did i jump onto a scam.
    There is a very simple way to avoid beeing scammed:
    If a deal looks too good to be true….it probably IS!
    Same can be said about ganks and pirates and gatwe camps and the hell know what!
    Fly with your frigging eyes open! Look at the god damned system chat.
    Oh and yeah: you did know that you could use your probes and scanners for different things then finding anoms? JFYmotherf*******I
    Stick with this and all you carebearing asteroid noming and mission hugging …. “pilots” will live their e-life in calm.

    September 24, 2013 at 12:01 pm Reply
    1. I just do not know

      If only it was as simple as that…, if only…

      September 24, 2013 at 12:24 pm Reply
      1. Atogrim

        It IS that simple.
        It really is.
        Yeah of course this won’t always work out. But 98% of the time.
        For the rest of 2% lets just say: shit happens.
        Scammers and grifers need an income too, you know.

        September 24, 2013 at 12:39 pm Reply
        1. I just do not know

          Really, you really have no idea do you, the scams you are referring to such as contract scams, trade scams etc., you are right on those, but the scams that have the biggest impact are those where people infiltrate corps and then clean them out. And no matter how careful you are, at some point they will get their chance and take it.

          September 24, 2013 at 12:47 pm Reply
          1. Atogrim

            I see we are comeing to a conclusion here.
            You call it scams.
            I call it meta, or spionage, or theft.
            But, yeah, doing that to small corps outside of a valid war or just for fun sucks.
            Never the less it is part of the game.
            I, for one, don’t like Concord.
            I think they are not working as intended.
            Still, they are part of the game, so i will have to deal with them, wether i like it or not.
            I am annoyed by the fact that WH systems have no chat. because i am a lazy fuck and regular scanning breaks my balls.
            So i dont go there.
            I don’t like missions. They are generic as fuck.
            I don’t like wardecs.
            I hate mining.
            I got killed by pirates.
            I got killed in nullsec while lighting a damned cigarett.
            Nothing of that is the fault of the game.
            Its all my own fault.
            I am, really, not able to see the difference between my points and robbing a corp.
            If the theft is well planned and executed, they deserve some kind of respect.

            September 24, 2013 at 12:59 pm
          2. I just do not know

            OK I see where you are coming from and agree with you, especially that last sentence, however if they used another account to get in to the situation to scam then they don’t have my respect, because its too damn easy.

            September 24, 2013 at 2:06 pm
          3. WWW

            They better leave WH space without a bitch ass local list. It’s one of two things that makes WH space like the wild frontier, the other being mass restricted and frequently changing connections. My god, if local was introduced, everybody would go there to farm Sleepers until the game shriveled into nothingness, because they would pull a nullbear and POS up the moment new name blinked onto the list.

            September 24, 2013 at 2:17 pm
          4. Atogrim

            Nah its all cool and froody dude.
            WH space is good as it is.
            Just wanted to point out its no place for me, thats all.

            September 24, 2013 at 2:20 pm
          5. BS

            Wait till Goblin finds out there such thing as WH…

            September 24, 2013 at 3:07 pm
          6. Atogrim

            Don’t you dare to point it out to him!

            September 24, 2013 at 3:10 pm
          7. mrcrazy_monkey

            It happens to everyone, from a small care bear corps all the way up to alliances like PL and some nice guys like Red Frog. Deal with it, its just another form of PvP.

            September 24, 2013 at 1:42 pm
          8. I just do not know

            Revenent indeed, that was actually one of the rare times they got caught, in fact I was pretty happy about it. However the way to deal with it is to take the hit and continue, you can tie your corp down pretty well, but then start to use a POS or start a deployment and use people to move stuff and there they are, bang. So in the end I deal with it by playing at a much lower level they I really want to, many people reach this point and leeave the game, unless they get badly ripped off and emo quit first.

            September 24, 2013 at 2:11 pm
  31. Justin Cody

    quit EVE already

    September 24, 2013 at 8:00 pm Reply
  32. Aonus_the_blaster_maniac

    not CCPs job to let it slide either and put people out there blindly. CCP’s job is to let players be aware of what can happen. Its like putting a sign that says “dont feed the animals” and then a kid gets his fingers eaten off by trying to feed a lion. Not the zoo’s fault for idiots who cant read.

    September 24, 2013 at 11:24 pm Reply
  33. you_noob

    Last expansion of exploration removed exploration for the game, so be careful what you wish for …

    September 25, 2013 at 8:11 am Reply
  34. Dennis the Dreamer

    I think it is time to ban CCP for ruining our budget and our lives. They are scamming us bigtime.

    September 25, 2013 at 8:23 am Reply
  35. some german guy

    fuck it. scam anyway.

    September 25, 2013 at 9:42 am Reply
  36. Durandal

    Problem with that hypothetical CONCORD warning:
    TOO MANY MOTHERFUCKING WORDS

    October 13, 2013 at 4:13 pm Reply

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