Back in February I did a post in which I used Eve Offline’s charts to evaluate if the Retribution expansion was doing well or not based on Peak Current Users numbers after two months in. I wrote: 

Based on the weekly averages of the peak logged in accounts, Eve has not been as busy since the launch and heydays of Incursions in early 2011. I feel that this is primarily attributed to the improvements in ship balancing done by Team Game of Drones which has allowed a rebirth of cheaper ship fleet doctrines that can compete better with higher end battlecruiser, Tech II cruiser, and Tech III cruiser setups. Coupled with the excitement of the new features like bounty hunting and new ships and UI enhancements, things look good for Eve.. right now.
Next summer’s patch is crucial.

So how does Odyssey look in comparison?

 A large drop off in the averages that pretty much has negated all the gains that Retribution had made. This is a vast disappointment and indicative that the “features” in Odyssey were lacking in “awesomeness” to draw the players in and keep them around. And the features that were added were mainly iterations on existing content and still need more work, like the new exploration hacking minigame, for example, could use more depth and function.

Personally I thought Odyssey was a decent expansion but we appear to want a combination of iteration on existing features and large new content expansions. Odyssey 1.1 was a good step, but more is needed. The malaise in null sec especially needs to be addressed somehow too.

– Kirith Kodachi

We are proud to bring you the stories, opinions and musings of a long time pilot who has dabbled in everything New Eden has to offer, he writes and podcasts about his opinions and adventures at


  1. yoghi

    “The malaise in null sec especially needs to be addressed” what? its been more exciting then ever null sov is constantly moving.

    September 18, 2013 at 8:18 pm Reply
    1. INKer

      Which corner of null-sec r u refering too?

      September 19, 2013 at 5:56 am Reply
    2. I just do not know

      Can I have your rose tinted glasses please

      September 19, 2013 at 10:43 am Reply
  2. yoghi

    p.s. i hate the minigame and stopped doing those sites

    although i really like the balancing they did on T1 ships

    September 18, 2013 at 8:20 pm Reply
    1. Soulxlight

      Same. Hacking takes too much time for the crap you get. No point anymore for me.

      September 18, 2013 at 10:25 pm Reply
    2. iskbot#1337

      odyssey had no content.

      befor odyssey i was hacking a lot of radar sleeper sites.
      now it clearly is a waste of time and money.

      September 19, 2013 at 12:24 am Reply
  3. Dirk MacGirk

    Can you compare a winter expansion to an expansion that occurs in June right before the summer slump?

    September 18, 2013 at 8:22 pm Reply
  4. Inigo Montoya

    Nullsec Malaise = Fountain War, Cobalt Edge changing hands, Dronelands Dropping Sov and re-grinding, Querious falls to Solar + BL, Russians take the south, Provi Antics, -A- comes out of the closet and Oddysey makes positive changes to Nullsec daily life.
    You sir are spot on…

    September 18, 2013 at 8:39 pm Reply
    1. observer


      September 18, 2013 at 8:58 pm Reply
      1. Inigo Montoya


        September 19, 2013 at 3:37 am Reply
    2. Provi Miner

      Provi antics? mmm ok those words work. Not the words of most of provi but good enough for a pg site lol

      September 19, 2013 at 4:12 am Reply
  5. hmmm

    “[…]but we appear to want a combination of iteration on existing features and large new content expansions.”

    do we?

    i prefer a game with fewer but better working features.
    but maybe that’s just me.

    September 18, 2013 at 8:51 pm Reply
  6. Green Giant

    The problem with Odyssey is that it was not an expansion. Take that word at its core:
    expansion – to increase or built upon
    What did Odyssey do? It gave us the minigame. That was the only “new” feature. Everything else was a patch. Rebalancing ships is a patch. Transitions during jumps is a patch (doesn’t add any meaning, just a nifty animation). Mining rebalance/ore was a patch. Scanning was rebalanced, but was also a patch.
    Odyssey was just a patch. It was not an expansion, which is no surprise why it was such a failure. There was no new content to explore, no new features to keep people wanting to login. I would love to see the metrics on new accounts by new people joining EVE vs new accounts by people already playing. I would imagine that the new people joining EVE is almost at a standstill. They need to bring out a truly new expansion to bring in people unfamiliar with EVE. Incarna might have been a monumental flop as a result of the lack of features, “greed is good” article, micro-transactions, and prices on the clothing, but it was a new feature, that would have attracted people to EVE. If CCP wants to get serious about refreshing the EVE name, they need to fully integrate DUST and EVE together. Allow DUST players to attack and control PI installations. Allow them to board and defend capital or supercapital ships to cause mods to go offline, or engines to fail if the attackers succeed. Bring walking in stations in, and add areas where weapons can be worn by players, and people ambushed in the more risky parts of town (a la Mass Effect style).
    Of course, there’s other options for new content, but some of these ideas are my own.

    September 18, 2013 at 9:11 pm Reply
    1. Leicester

      Bollocks to walking in stations, how about making DUST battles actually matter by having fighting in stations – say for final timer control of the station itself.
      Just some ideas off the top of my head:

      Attackers reinforcements are brought in by haulers (a use for mercenaries, hooray!), defenders can respawn in station or join by jump clone if they have one installed.
      Theoretically this gives the defender infinite reinforcements but if the station is hellcamped, and if it’s being sieged then there’s a pretty good chance it will be – the defenders only have as many people to spread for defence as they started with or who can jump in to assist.
      Make the battle an hour in length, as each room is taken by the attackers the defenders are pushed back to their next line of defence and the attacking side gains another 10-15 mins to attack.
      Each particular part of the station gives advantages to the side holding it, defenders have the option of using people to help rep the station from within, thus decreasing the time the attackers have available but diverts defenders from actually assisting in the defence – you know, shooty type stuff.
      The battle is over when all rooms are taken by the attacker, or the time has expired for the defender or all reinforcements are exhausted.

      Maybe it would be a gigantic laggy spamfest so I guess numerical limits would have to be imposed on each side – anyway, just some ideas. Feel free to add your own.

      September 18, 2013 at 10:11 pm Reply
      1. Billbo

        Dust is Bust and was headshot at E3 this year nothing can save that turd of an fps.

        September 18, 2013 at 10:44 pm Reply
      2. Bungie? Dice? Treyarch?

        Using ground troops to secure station timers would be cool and all, but it would need to be from a better game than Dust. Now, if they get, say…DICE to develop the game, well that would be different now, wouldn’t it? If it had a good game to fall back on, fine. As is, that would kill EvE flat.

        September 19, 2013 at 8:20 am Reply
      3. GrouchyOldGamer

        Let’s keep DUST out of Eve sov wars – but fighting for stations in FW would be cool.

        September 19, 2013 at 11:37 am Reply
    2. Dexter Lofe

      I was nodding my head until the Dust integration thing. They really need to cut their losses, set aside pride and abort it. It seems large bounds of growth aren’t going to work for the Eve franchise. Figure out which Incarna features would really be attractive to new and existing players and make it happen in a practical, achievable way.

      September 18, 2013 at 10:12 pm Reply
    3. INKer

      Yup, I recon the EVE Tournaments bring in the most new subs, but wonder how many leave after the 30 days. Alot I imagine when they factor in the sheer amount of time it takes to be able to play in one of those tournaments.

      Its kinda crushing for a new person wanting to join in, and I’ve known a few ppl try the game for a month or so, but just not have the patience or will power to spend 6 months training before they can do what has drawn them to the game.

      I’m not sure I could start again from scratch.

      September 18, 2013 at 10:33 pm Reply
  7. hmm

    weekly average has pretty much stayed the same since dominion in 2009!! when are you guys gonna wake up and stop thinking eve is expanding! its clearly not. its just the same vets playing the game, subs have gone up due to ppl needing more accounts, metagaming, cyno alts, super cap chars.. its not because new players are staying. jeez wake the fuck up

    September 18, 2013 at 9:32 pm Reply
  8. INKer

    I took the summer off for the first time. Not due to the game itself (apart from TiDi) but because of the Null-Sec politics becoming pretty stale and not providing the kind of content I was personally interested in. I love the ship rebalancing on the AHACs from what I’ve seen so far playing around with them on the test server.

    Also, not big fan of drone comps. have an alt thats good with drones, but that a newbie carrier pilot and indy toon.

    Yet, looking at logon numbers they do seem a fair bit lower than the begininng of the year. Dunno if thats actually true tho.

    September 18, 2013 at 10:27 pm Reply
    1. Soulxlight

      What exactly are you looking for in Null Sec ? Do you really want 1000 vs 1000 man fights where TiDi is the true winner of everything ? What do you mean by Null-Sec politics not providing you with the content you’re interested in ? You didn’t actually elaborate on anything.

      September 18, 2013 at 10:33 pm Reply
      1. INKer

        By content I meant a bitter rivalry between 2 alliances, or some1 dropping SBUs somewhere to start a conflict that wont end up involving half of null-sec. Seems now that alot of space has been carved up and its a coalition war if u want to fight.

        Ppl r so desperate for fights they crash others, which should sound like fun, but usually ends up in a lag fest or diplos stomp on it. Or just 1 unnivited guest upsets the numbers balance and all the fights end up with standing down.

        Still, theres prolly some1 out there to fight for lols like on a deployment. I prefer real grudge matches with actual goals. Also, serious alliance level fights require huge comitment on the part of leadership and I understand they dont want to be doing that all year round. I certainly wouldnt want anymore of our leadership to burn out or lose interest either.

        September 19, 2013 at 5:53 am Reply
    2. Someone else in INK

      Your in INK and you took the Summer off because Null-Sec politics was stale? You know we live in Wicked Creek/Scalding Pass and had deployed to both Geminate and Fountain yes? The content I got was getting in fights everywhere.

      September 18, 2013 at 10:48 pm Reply
      1. Hi there

        Fountin fighting was mostly TiDi(which isn’t fun), or structure shooting(which isn’t fighting).

        September 19, 2013 at 12:13 am Reply
      2. INKer

        Yes, missed the deployment, but kicking RAs ass didnt appeal. Most didnt go to Fountain and I wouldnt of either as theres no luv for TEST with me. From the KB its looks good on numbers, but thats to be expected against RA.

        I was hoping for something other than getting back the space we gave to RA so it could be rented out, but then SRP isnt free for every1. A nice juicy and testing set of goals was what I’d have found more interesting.

        September 19, 2013 at 5:43 am Reply
    3. Provi Miner

      TiDi? is a game saver, oh I know you miss the glory days of endless lag of getting km an hour and a half before your ship dies on screen. and of course black screens. Yeah those days were way better.

      September 19, 2013 at 4:10 am Reply
      1. INKer

        I agree TiDi is a massive improvement over Black Screen of Death and rebooting or reloading to find ur self back in station. Just that when we fight alot of the time it draws other alliances and what could have been a 200 vs 200 turns into a 500 vs 500 or a 200 vs 500 that means a stand down or if equal numbers from say NC./TEST/N3ers vs Some1 else generally means 500+ on both sides and the lag ruins what could of been a good fight.

        September 19, 2013 at 5:46 am Reply
      2. screw tidi

        Tidi may be better then the endless lag however its still not the route they should have taken. They could fix lag by upgrading the servers and not putting so many systems on one node. Some will say upgrading the servers would not help that its the code but that is total bullshit. If that was the case you would not be able to put 2000 in jita with no lag. Tidi is better but is not the answer. Maybe for short term but its too late for short term now.

        September 19, 2013 at 7:29 pm Reply
  9. Slothen

    it was summer

    September 18, 2013 at 11:26 pm Reply
    1. d

      Agreed. I usually go awol for 3-4 months with summer. This is the first time I actually kept my accounts subbed for training skills during this time. Only logged in to see how things were going and put skills in though. Is typical of my corp to go mostly inactive during the summer as well. All that being said this wasn’t really an expansion as much as it was a bug fix/feature balancing release.

      September 19, 2013 at 12:43 am Reply
    2. Jesus Loves You

      Pretty much this, the OP fully overlooked the effect of summer time. Good riddance.

      September 19, 2013 at 10:42 am Reply
  10. qwer

    Next time get months to your chart and look it before posting shit like this. Or was that on purpose as you left out also Tyrannis which got same kind of of treatment by summer. Incarna drop was also mostly due summer, not actually by raging people shutting down all their accounts.

    Eve’s main player group is somewhere over 25 and that means that summers are mostly spend on doing something with family, not playing any games.

    September 19, 2013 at 1:07 am Reply
    1. you should stop posting now

      if you think the drop over the incarna expansion was from the summer you either didn’t play the game and are making that assumption on the numbers or you were there an lived under a rock for the entire patch cycle. The drop was fallout from CCP’s failures and was highlighted by the first player held in-game riot.

      September 19, 2013 at 3:59 am Reply
      1. qwer

        Well I did put my words little badly. What I meant to say was that the drop what came after Incarna was noticeably boosted by summer.

        I was in the leadership of about 200 player (~500 char) alliance. We had thread where everyone needed to tell if they are going offline for some longer time. Not a single dude put their accounts down just because of Incarna. About 10 guys put their accounts regularly down in summer. Some of them went to EVE forums to tell it was because Incarna, just to make a point to CCP how bad it was, but in reality they were just in summer afk. Only real effect what Incarna had from our part to CCP money was handful of guys who would otherwise AFK skilled their accounts over summer, but this time put their accounts actually down, and even some of them left main account running.

        Incarna rage was big, but in my opinion most of the closed accounts were due circumstances that made it easy to players to do it. If it had been winter patch, the drop wouldn’t likely to be anywhere near that big.

        September 19, 2013 at 4:48 pm Reply
  11. Alex

    What happens when CCP push for the addition of a major feature? People bemoan the lack of attention to fixing and rebalancing. What happens when CCP fixes and rebalances? People become apathetic and bored with existing content.

    WiS, badly implemented as it was, was a fantastic idea which turned into collateral damage from the confused, hysterical cloud of player uproar surrounding microtransactions. CCP fucks up again and again, sure, but fucking teenage levels of self-harm are committed by players by never, ever being receptive to new ideas. CCP in turn has to walk a line where they propose moderately ambitious aesthetic and functional changes to existing content which pisses people off even more (ex: mauraders).

    Can’t wait to see how fast everyone gets bored of the modular POS. Then again, if CCP had decided to release more than just a fucking room with our fucking monocles, we wouldn’t be here in the first place.

    tl;dr = expansion features suck because there’s still zero trust from 2011

    September 19, 2013 at 1:46 am Reply
    1. Jordan Geldart

      True, but that was 3 years ago.

      The game really was in a bad state back then. They pretty much never finished one feature before moving on to the next big thing. There were thousands and thousands of little bugs that they never fixed. Then they decided the wanted even more money for a crap quality game.

      The last few expansions have fixed many of the little bugs and people are ready for some wow again. Part of the trust thing is also that what CCP think is a wow feature pretty much always turns out crap PI, Incarna and The new hacking loot game

      September 19, 2013 at 11:36 am Reply
  12. Mr Twinkie

    Null is broken.. this should be priority number 1 for ccp. Until null is fixed eve will slowly bleed numbers.

    September 19, 2013 at 4:29 am Reply
    1. Altrue

      Actually Null isn’t where the majority of people are. And, say, a player in a titan only logging on when a bridge is needed, won’t count that much in the statistics anyway even if he leave… He is already absent, ’cause he won’t appear much in the graphs.

      September 19, 2013 at 6:56 am Reply
      1. some german guy

        No main character sits in a super dude …
        it’s 99% alts
        So the main player for example Vee and his bazillion titan alts would count.

        September 19, 2013 at 8:03 am Reply
        1. I just do not know

          That is an excellent post, I may disagree with you on the samming side, but this is spot on

          September 19, 2013 at 11:16 am Reply
        2. Good Post

          The part about randomizing missions is spot on. I’ve never understood why the missions are static. At least give a “randomize missions’ option for when you feel you are experienced enough.

          But you are off on the reason most people join. That’s just a meme you guys like to propagate afaic.

          I joined to fly spaceships. In a HUGE sandbox. With beautiful, varied ships. With technical depth. In a beautiful galaxy. I’m not a PvPer by nature. Tell me, if I were ignorant of Null style gameplay or not, what other game would I go to for this?

          September 21, 2013 at 9:55 pm Reply
  13. ><a1N

    When did EVE last get a new PVE mission? The challenge after running several missions is to work out how to ‘blitz’ a mission to get your ‘tick’ rate higher. So the goal is all about your isk making rate. Same with Incursions, Mining, Wormholes and Faction Warfare farming. Is the actual process of making isk fun or is it the fact that your wallet has billions of isk in it? CCP are going to have to come up pretty soon with a wow factor or it will be facing extinction. It must be hard for CCP to watch Goons ruin the game they once enjoyed to play. Can we see a graph of Successful Goon Scams by Player Scammed and whether they still play the game or not after scam incident? It must be fun for Goons who used to embrace noobs with the glory of a free Rifter to now be crushing noobs at every chance. Yes while Goonswarm would have you believe they are a Null sec fighting force they secretly run alts in hi-sec crushing every pubbie they can find. So destroying any new player base from emerging. For this reason alone Goonswarm needs to be wiped out before they wipe out EVE. Watch the precious Goon tears flow.

    September 19, 2013 at 9:33 am Reply
    1. Joseph Blade

      bicycle helmets for all!
      oh noes, people get scammed and leave the game.
      it wouldn’t be eve if it becomes nice. that’s why there’s hello kitty adventure land.

      September 19, 2013 at 9:50 am Reply
      1. some german guy

        Thank You.

        September 19, 2013 at 9:50 am Reply
      2. I just do not know

        Its hello kitty land for the scammers

        September 19, 2013 at 11:14 am Reply
        1. Joseph Blade

          no…. because that would make eve hello kity adventure land.
          taking risks out of eve means you can say goodbye to eve.
          I’ve never scammed, never been scammed. (although I would welcome some limitations to jita/other trade hub spam, which negatively affects scammers there perhaps, but serves a purpose of making local less cluttered)

          but taking out the ability to be dishonest in eve is a nail in the coffin of the sandbox.

          you may as well remove ‘losing ships is permanent’ and go fullblown arcade.
          every decision you make matters. Including who you trust.
          if there is CCP to rewind all your bad decisions for you, then you may as well go play wow.

          September 19, 2013 at 12:52 pm Reply
          1. I just do not know

            I have no issue with on game scams, I have an issue with scams made so effective by out of game meta gaming in which the victim has no chance of avoiding unless he has his own spy network out of game.
            Changing the subject and trying to make it look as if I am saying no scams at all, I am not, in game no problem, and to even suggest not losing ships is classic diverting the subject, because you have no fucking answer to what I just said.
            Eve currently is hello kitty on line for meta gaming scammers, thankfully at last we are seeing some changes and the simplest one would be to link all accounts and have a check box to divulge that info or not. Then that bunch of destructive bitter vets will have to do it in game and they will be fail, because they do not play the game any more!

            September 19, 2013 at 2:25 pm
          2. Joseph Blade


            the scam that triggered all of this could have been avoided by asking the supposed ‘alt’ to send a message from his main.

            if you’re buying a supercarrier, this is a minimal amount of scam protection you would expect.

            the same with recruitment scams. if someone claims to be a goons director recruiting, then the least you should be expected to do is to require a mail from this goons director character stating that the alt is negotiating on his behalf. (etc, etc)

            blindly believing an alt is who he says he is…. is just dumb… even if the internets says it is true, this is still dumb.

            and dumb should be punished.

            September 19, 2013 at 2:58 pm
          3. I just do not know

            The adjustment of the Wiki and the new page in the Wiki with ISD support, lol, was to me meta gaming, The pretending to be an alt in game I have less of an issue with.
            The Goon one, well first of all should be in the Goons, so its an obvious one to deal with.
            I still think that dumb people being dumb should be punished, but the issue with Eve is that the Meta Gaming catches out intelligent careful people as there is no protection against it, nothing to be able to assess that risk, it destroys immersion and I think is runing the game by forcing good up and coming people to give up. I seriously believe that there is a top tier of players in certain alliances that just meta game scam, because they are bitter vets they just get their kicks out of this and it affects the game in terms of new players and new content created by these newer more focussed players.

            I do not want scamming to go away, but it has to be part of the game.

            September 19, 2013 at 7:01 pm
    2. some german guy

      Another Butthurt Publord that got fucked in some way by the goons.

      See mate. Don’t blame other people for your own stupidity.
      EVE is supposed to be rough . Thats the factor that makes it interesting to most of its players.

      People like you are basicaly the apartheid of EVE bitching about all the damn ni**ers and their ghettos but you basicaly created the issue yourself.

      Be smart -> Don’t get scammed -> Less Scams -> Less of your tears.

      September 19, 2013 at 9:54 am Reply
      1. I just do not know

        How can you be smart when there is no in game tool to help you assess multiple accounts, it just makes it a lottery. And when you get active on a campaign you have to rely on people which is when you give more access and of course that is what they are waiting for. A good example is a post on C&P by Athena Olympus where her alliance was scammed for 30bn.
        So your definition of smart is no access to anyone, or put your moeny where your mouth is and define exactly how you would do it, so far the only thing I can think of is some IP address comparison, but to do that you need to capture IP addresses by all the major players, like a certain website begining with K perhaps?

        September 19, 2013 at 10:38 am Reply
        1. some german guy

          Thats why we have ESA/auth
          ESA/auth = beeing smart

          September 19, 2013 at 10:50 am Reply
          1. I just do not know

            A shit ton of work, well that depends who your target is and what you aim to get. A good scammer has multiple accounts going, he makes sure he is on a certain amount of time and gets involved in roams, fleets etc., but of course he is busy in RL. At a key point stand up to be countered and gain trust. This can hapen over a very short period or take a long time depending on the corp/alliance. Of course with WH’s its different because sharing POS’s is always the weak spot in terms of your ships.
            There is no balls in it at all, what does he lose, nothing, its totally easy ISK which is why so many do it.
            And that bank was stupid, anyone who invested in it was an utter moron.
            But you have no chance as a CEO to screen people out and that is the issue, now being smart means you control access, but you have to give access to some corp assets and at some point you need to move fast and that is easy, I have seen it happen so many times.
            That is not a cold unforgiving universe, its bad game design on failing to link accounts. It accounts were linked in some way then only the dedicated person would do it as he would be unable to do anything else, that is what I would mean by cold and unforgiving.

            September 19, 2013 at 11:13 am
          2. some german guy

            he looses reputation which means a lot in eve.
            Its hard to find a corp / friends when you are a known scammer and playing eve alone sucks donkey balls. Even with alts.

            The point is that scamming as of right now is one of the very few options smaller groups have against larger groups

            September 19, 2013 at 2:05 pm
          3. I just do not know

            Nope that has no affect at all, and I think you will find that some of the major entities do it more against up and coming groups, come on think it through…

            September 19, 2013 at 6:54 pm
          4. some german guy

            works the other way around too.

            September 20, 2013 at 7:47 am
          5. I just do not know

            And you have to see it from CCP’s side, you have a large number of bitter vets in this game who have a vast amount of ISK wealth, a lot of them get their kicks out of scamming, they buy toons or create new ones, put them on ice, using plex then infiltrate and scam. Their targets are that up and coming tier of players that are trying to build something, they get scammed big time and suddenly they are pissed off, upset and give up, some stop trying others leave the game. What you see is one facet of it, but in terms of the game it creates a vacuum, I think CCP is smart enough to realise that this is an issue.
            So what you call a hard cold universe is really hello kitty for meta gamers.

            September 19, 2013 at 11:39 am
          6. Shadowblade1436

            CCP is a corporation, and as such exist to make money, not to make you happy. If CCP found a way that made half the players leave eve forever, but in return replaced them with 10 times as many new players.. guess what, they would do so, and so would every other game corp in the world.

            While I fully agree being scammed is your own fault, if such scams are driving customers away, CCP will end them… Because in the end more customers equals more money. So from a Corporate standpoint, its not short sighted, its in fact a very long term view, how can we as a corp bring in more customers, and keep them. And if that means shitting on the current eve play style (ie ganking miners and scamming noobs), then so be it. Its not about keeping current players happy, its about numbers…. if pissing scammers off makes them more money, then they will do it.

            Its like EA, everyone hates them for how they treat players, but they still make more than any other gaming corp in the world, so they will keep on doing what they do.

            September 19, 2013 at 11:44 am
          7. some german guy

            and thats why I am looking forward to star citizen :p
            but yes I agree . I was hoping for CCP to be white knight of the gaming industry.

            Still I think its wrong. If you keep changing you might gain but you also loose and it the end you will loose more than you gain.
            You cant make everyone happy indeed.

            But this is about a video game and not business economics

            September 19, 2013 at 2:03 pm
          8. Brandon

            I am glad you mentioned this “Star Citizen” Game. I found his pitch video and that game really looks interesting. I been playing eve since 09 and I ma so burnt out on it. There is a chance I would not be so burnt out on it if it where not for them killing solo and small gang warfare more and more each patch. Now I cant wait to find out more details about this star citizen game.

            September 19, 2013 at 7:21 pm
          9. Yup

            I hear you on the killing solo part.

            September 21, 2013 at 9:26 pm
          10. Joseph Blade

            the question is, does it have longterm staying power if they change the fundamentals of the game.

            eve survived for a very long time, because it got free updates (suck it wow) and it was a very unpleasant / harsh universe. this drew players in and created a specific playerbase.

            if they lose this distinction, they risk ending up being yet another MMORPG with no distinguishing features/culture. Most of the ‘new customers’ you mention won’t stick around then, they’ll move on as soon as the next thing comes along.

            Kindof like Dust 😀

            September 19, 2013 at 3:04 pm
          11. Your dumb read below

            Please kill your self

            September 19, 2013 at 3:39 pm
      2. some_dude

        I would propably agree with you. That’s the game after all.

        In an other hand why would CCP turn there back to people wanted to just make some carebear operation in high-sec ?

        September 19, 2013 at 10:40 am Reply
      3. ><a1N

        And I bet you have a Catalyst parked in Jita?

        September 19, 2013 at 11:27 am Reply
      4. Johan du Preez

        I suggest you dont make comments about apartheid if you have no clue … it makes you look like a idiot.

        September 19, 2013 at 1:00 pm Reply
  14. LOL.

    wait is that guy complaining about the dropping number of bots?

    September 19, 2013 at 9:57 am Reply
  15. Expansions

    No wonder as now there is no exploration, you just get T2 prober and go do some relict sites.

    Tech 3 cruisers blocked from running lvl 4 sites in higsec , good thing when you look at this at first place , but why in the hell you cannot jump there in BS! This is PVP, to easy ? as long this is highsec and pve connected – why not?

    No new ships/ weapons – just rebalancing what eve had from ages – and in 6 months they will rebalance the same things again and call it Next Big Expansion.

    Create something NEW , not “rebalance” some old stuff or tune up some graphics – and then call it expansion.

    September 19, 2013 at 10:14 am Reply
    1. 2

      those arent rebalances, those are overpowered buffs or nerfs, take a look to the domi, they rebalanced it 2 times so the correct balance is never gonna happen

      September 19, 2013 at 2:58 pm Reply
  16. The Dane

    Make the stations in Null sec totally destructable, then you’ll see a lot of changes in null-sec, and it’s going to be a hot hot hot place to be, and no structure are safe.

    September 19, 2013 at 12:16 pm Reply
    1. Random CFC Grunt

      Yep, you’ll see a lot of changes, everyone will leave nullsec and go to militia or to play other games. Great idea.

      September 19, 2013 at 12:20 pm Reply
      1. The Dane

        At least you will have a changes in null-sec, tho easier said than done to do so, as the etablished alliances in null-sec will not let it happen, so its merely just a dream for me.

        September 19, 2013 at 1:52 pm Reply
        1. Random CFC Grunt

          Dream? Of even emptier nullsec? My friend – fuck your dream, What needs to happen is signifficant nerf to every income stream outside of nullsec (millitia, hisec missions, hisec belts, hisec ice mining, etc). That’s my dream.

          September 19, 2013 at 1:56 pm Reply
          1. The Obvious

            So your dream is to force people to have to join large coalitions to play the game instead of playing it there way? It is a sandbox, anything that starts funneling people directly or indirectly will kill the game. You may be happy with being an F1 monkey, and that’s your game. But not everyone thinks your way, which seems to be whatever you are told to think.

            September 19, 2013 at 4:43 pm
    2. Filip Viruk Drab

      0.0 would be empty, or everyone would have assets in NPC space

      September 19, 2013 at 12:25 pm Reply
    3. Danger the truth

      How about after like 900 times of a station flipping it blows up. And there is no way to track it unless you litteraly count each time. That would cause a lot more fighting in the game. Also have a ship that can moon mine but has to siege to do so makes economic changes. Then there is the idea of bringing the Titan dd have a affect that blows up one ship but dampens range of anyone within 15 km of that shot which will destroy blobs. Will CCP do that answer is no because they think switch around what already works is the answer. Dumb people are now running this game

      September 19, 2013 at 2:39 pm Reply
  17. eurynome

    “And the features that were added were mainly iterations on existing content and still need more work”

    no, odyssey was branded as an “exploration expansion”, but what we got is exploration being removed from the game, and instead they thrown lvl1 in space, THAT is what we had.

    add to that the annoying sensor overlay that is on even-when-set-to-off, and the “awesome” we-make-you-sick jump animation, and i think this sum up pretty much what Odyssey brought to players……now try to figure WHY the # off player drop……

    September 19, 2013 at 2:12 pm Reply
  18. Yahahiuy

    nullsec blob coalitioons where ‘numbers>quality’, unknown wormhole space that is mapped out, all statics are known and calculated to the precise mass and time remaining, industrial ships renamed, sov war still revolves around structure shooting and moongoo isk hoarding by the alliance leaders+directors for their RMT.

    This game is now as predictable as any cookie cutter themepark mmo raid boss. You can do it blindfolded, waaaaay too easy and predictable a.k.a. boring.

    Unless you’re RZR/FA/Fcon ofc.

    September 19, 2013 at 2:59 pm Reply
  19. Dragon Outlaw

    The thing is, EVE (as a product) has reached its maturity level. CCP are only willing to make minor changes. They try to keep their customers hoping by talking about stuff like WiS, ring mining and so on…but they fail in delivering. It has become clear to many players that CCP WILL NOT introduce any significant improvements or changes to the game. This being said, Eve will remain on “survival” state for a while until similar (and better) games come out. It is just a question of time before it dies out. It probably already started!!

    September 19, 2013 at 3:23 pm Reply
  20. Ashesofempires

    A lot more happened over the summer to influence the game’s login numbers than just Odyssey and the 1.1 patch.

    First off, there was the conclusion of a null-sec war. I’m sure a lot of players re-subbed for various reasons in order to participate in that conflict in some way. And afterwards, some of the probably unsubbed, or at least closed back down some of their accounts that they no longer needed. Some of the players on the losing side maybe decided to take a break.

    Second, it’s summer, always a historic time for a lull in player activity. Especially for players who were just coming off of a grueling sov fight in Fountain, it’s an opportunity to take a breather.

    Third, the Odyssey changes were not as sweeping as those of the previous expansion. Rebalancing this time around wasn’t as exciting, or even acceptable to some people (I personally thought that they were underwhelming), and the major feature for the summer expansion was definitely not as exciting as it was hoped. Further iteration is going to be necessary.

    In short, even though a lot of people were not as excited about Odyssey as they were about Retribution or Inferno, I think recent events within the game had a lot more to do with the game’s login statistics than a summer patch.

    September 19, 2013 at 4:31 pm Reply
    1. “Further iteration is going to be necessary.”

      Yup – for the risks and time involved, the exploration stuff really isn’t worth the time. Which is a shame because I do enjoy it – but if I spend an hour scanning sites down and make 10m ISK then I could have spend that hour ratting or running missions and made a lot more.

      I went into two nullsec areas last night via WH entrances – did a total of around 26 systems, and found 1 data site in the drone region (that had rats!) and one relic site.

      September 20, 2013 at 4:53 pm Reply
  21. alx

    How difficult is to CCP understand that the gaming concept that kept players liking eve is changing? EVE is all about freedom! when eve started this was one of the most apeeling concept in it, but now… What is needed is a SOV revamp… people are tired of being confined in their sov or confined in hi-sec by others sov…. What is needed is a POS revamp, people want freedom to build their universe(mostly like minecraft)… What is needed is people owning their own space, so let add player owned stargates! I would probably subscribe again if I see just one of these features! But eve is getting old and the development is not refreshing it fast enough. CCP is lacking creativity and balls to change!

    September 19, 2013 at 11:04 pm Reply
  22. Ditchmonkey

    Odyssey sucks and it has nothing to do with the stats.

    September 20, 2013 at 5:18 am Reply
  23. Interesting data. I don’t think the numbers are doom & gloom. CCP chose to address small but annoying bugs and features of the game before they move on and bring out a “Jesus feature” again. Basically stabilizing the patient before doing surgery. That is smart. Lets wait for the next 2 expansions before we cry wolf, shall we?

    September 20, 2013 at 12:23 pm Reply
  24. Michael Meio

    Odyssey is being so good, that I don’t do exploration anymore. And I have 550+ items derived from that activity before the so called ‘expansion’.
    The minigame is just an insult IMO
    It is one of those things EVE would be better, much better if it didn’t happened.
    Total fail!

    September 21, 2013 at 2:09 am Reply
    1. Agreed

      Yeah, I don’t explore anymore either. I used to do it all the time solo, but hate having to pick a the loot as it spews… the mini game is meaningless and the fact that scanning is so much easier makes me much more nervous if anyone is in system. Altogether just much less enjoyable now.

      September 21, 2013 at 6:29 am Reply
    2. a

      Same, I used to enjoy the risks of explorations but it turned into a joke and i do not
      touch it anymore. Everything that i used to enjoy in npc nullsec is broken now and
      i end up running missions 2 times a week and than logging off. There are no resources
      worth fighting for at small scale and without conflict there is no interest into the game.

      September 24, 2013 at 2:41 pm Reply
  25. Pregnant Wombat

    To be honest, I really don’t think Eve failing has anything to do with what they introduce into the game. Plenty of crappy games that have tons of players. Tons of times where player base drops and more come in. You also have to keep in mind alts who’s income streams are being currently effected when they plex. For example the moon good value drop. Renting isn’t fully established all throughout nullsec.

    But thing is, reason why Eve doesn’t get players and retain some is because, A… You will always start to lose people, and when you aren’t adding any, youll see the drop happen, and B… Eve sucks at advertising their games. Their Marketing Department is horrible. I never knew Eve Online even existed until early 2009 when I stumbled on it.

    I literally stumbled on playing Eve. Never heard of it before, never saw it advertised or anything. I looked at the cover of the game at a store, because I was curious and was into space games that time. If it wasn’t for me being proactive and looking at the game at the store, I probably would have never bought the game, and still have never heard of it until maybe a few months ago, when I started looking at youtube videos of MMOs. That would probably have been the first time I would have known if it wasn’t for the accidental seeing of that one copy of the game on a store shelf.

    I honestly think this is the reason why Eve doesn’t get new players. Their Marketing is terrible. If we had more players, game probably would be cooler, they’d afford more etc. But thats the thing, I don’t know why Eve doesn’t at least advertise their game. It’s like they are just satisfied with the status quo. I know only of a few people who even know of the game’s existence, and I know no one in real life that does play it besides one guy that I talked him into playing.

    So really, whats up with CCP’s marketing department?

    They need to :

    A. Advertise and market the game more.

    B. Make the game inviting to new players. Have a tuturial that actually works perfectly and looks cool and everything. Literally have the Tutorial teach them a little about everything. How to do things, what to expect, what you should expect yourself to do to be able to go forward in the game, etc etc etc.

    September 21, 2013 at 10:33 pm Reply
  26. GunnerWolf

    Everybody here claims most EVE players take summer off, and that is the cause of this drop. While that may be true, it baffles me. I personally am the opposite, I put far more time in during summer simply because I have much more free time and I for one like to use my free time to have fun.

    October 4, 2013 at 5:23 pm Reply

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