My background in Stealth Bombers and Cov ops stems back as being part of StainWagon back when ROMANIAN LEGION held Period Basis and the Old Northern Coalition exiles were swarming around the Delve Thunderdome. After my brief stint with a rather “meh” worthy group that did “meh” things that was impressive mostly to them, the fast paced small gang cut throat pvp between the Delve Thunderdome and the RLeion civil war in Stain was exhilarating. Due to TZ differences, real life and Period Basis being steam rolled by Nulli while I was absent I found myself without a home once again. I ended up drifting back toward Empire space and found myself with a little tiny unknown group that would become known as Bombers Bar. I won’t get too much into the history of that right now but the basic modus operandi was that you joined the chat channel, x’ed up with your bomber and killed whatever you could in whatever high traffic system was being camped.

Since then there have been endless debates on how the proper bomber should and should not be fit. The evolution of bbar has changed the requirements and also the method in which ship were flown. I’ve always loved the idea of a smaller entity out maneuvering and out fighting a larger one through the use of proper mechanics and intelligence both in teaching cov ops tactics as part of my hobby and when I get to teach boxing.

First let us look at the Stealth Bomber in general ignoring the subtle yet impotant differences between the 4 racial types. When I look to fly a ship, I look to play to its strengths. Those strengths for the bomber are DPS (torps and bombs) and mobility (in every sense of the word including cloaks and speed.) Everything that goes onto a bomber should aim to capitalize on those factors and work to the ship’s strength and purpose.

Second, we have to consider what we will be using our bomber for. A bomber in a small gang low sec engagement is going to operate very differently than a bomber in a major 0.0 bombing run. As such this article is not a papal bull on how there is only one, and one specific way to fly and fit your bomber. This is simply the way to fit and fly your bomber and making use of its maximum potential. That entails flying the bomber in 0.0/w-space in order to make use of its Bomb Launcher. Ideally the bomber should be a tool that is used to harass enemy sov by ambushing ratters and haulers or simply observing and being a constant presence to engaging in small gang fights. At the same time the bomber should also be able to easily transfer over to a bomb running roll.

Lastly, we have to consider the other ships a Bomber would interact with within its own fleet such as recon ships or interceptors. Depending on the situation, different ships may be in use to help further the bomber’s potential such as ECM from a Falcon for protection or Stasis Webs from a Rapier to help pin a target down. It’s a bit difficult to go module by module, slot by slot explaining how to fit your bomber since you do not see the full picture of how the fitting is meant to work until every puzzle piece is put snugly in place. As such I recommend you read until the very end before sharing your thoughts.

So let us begin. First and foremost you need a cov ops cloak. I’ve seen mention of “Goku fleet” or other silly non sense where you could of probably used a much more durable ship to do the same roll. Secondly you need the torps. For 99.9 percent of cases, as far as high slot weapon systems go, Tech2 for PVP, everything else is for ratting. This is that 0.1 percent case where meta4 weapons do indeed fulfill their pvp role quite well and even better than their T2 counterpart for the amount of fitting they allow in your other slots. With near perfect missile skills a meta4 launcher with Faction ammo and one BCU II will allow you to get around 400 dps at 60 KM. The big selling point for T2 torps is the use of jav (range) and rage (damage) ammo. With the same skill points used in the meta4 example, Jav will net you around the low to mid 300s in DPS at a range of about 90 km. Rage will get you around 500 at a range of 50 km. We must also keep in mind the higher rate of fire on the T2 launchers.

So why not use T2 launchers? You get a higher base DPS from the launchers themselves, you get the option of hitting out from 90 + km with jav, come in closer and higher hard with the rage, and you can always fall back on faction ammo for a nice middle ground. The issue comes in when you consider what you are giving up to have these options and then asking yourself if these options are even that valuable. So all in all, what are you giving up to have T2 torps? Well if you fit all your mid slots (and you better) all bombers need a CPU II mod in the low slot. On some bombers depending on how you fit your mid slots you may be able to just use an implant or even a rig slot for the CPU. But as a basic, you’ll be losing that low slot to the CPU II mod.

Remember how I said it would be difficult to go slot by slot, module by module? This is why. Everything you fit affects everything else you fit somewhere else. Moving on…

So in essence you gain the T2 torp advantages for a low slot module. That low slot module SHOULD be a Nano II. So the question is T2 torps or mobility? Let’s consider first the “advantages” we are gaining and seeing if they are truly worth it. The Jav ammo letting you to hit out to 90 or so may seem impressive yet at the same time most bombers aren’t even going to have that sort of lock range without other modules. So right there, if you want to use one of the advantages of T2 torps, you’re not only losing one slot for fitting more CPU for them, but yet another slot in order to make full use of their potential.

I can already hear some of my old flying comrades in Bombers Bar yelling “But the jav torps let you hit your target much faster!” Unfortunately the reasoning behind this is not very good and it takes a bit of explanation on the doctrinal shift that had affected Bbar from the earlier days into its more modern form. “Back in the day” our bomber gangs were much smaller. Double digits was a “good night.” As the community gained more members however the small 9 to 12 man gangs evolved into beefy 23-35 man bomber blobs. The damage itself was not as valuable as it was to simply get on the killmail with SOME damage. You had kill after kill in these 30 or so man fleets where you only had about 5 to 6 guys doing any damage what so ever with the rest registering exactly zilch damage. What we had here was a gross inefficiency. You don’t really need 30 bombers to kill any sub cap ship. So to those holding up the flag of the jav torp, consider your reasons for using them and if they are truly valid. Having command of 30 or so bombers would be better used by splitting the group up into several teams and harassing several systems rather than just one or two gates in the same system.

Next we have to consider the possibility of using rage torps. Their DPS boost is massive on top of an already massive weapon system. Unfortunately rage torps have poor radius explosion making them fairly inefficient on almost any sub cap ship. Perhaps if you had a trippled webbed and scrammed battleship you would find some sort of argument but at that point faction torps would do the job well enough.

So what is left now is T2 torps and faction ammo. What sort of damage boost do you get using faction torp meta4 vs T2 launchers? Not enough to justify it. In fact you might as well use meta4 and dual BCU IIs in the low slots if you are not going for mobility anyway. When taking this into consideration there are few reasons to use T2 torps on a Bomb Launcher fit Bomber. On a High Sec/Low Sec bomber it is a bit more justified simply because certain factors that are relevant to launching bombs are not present there. But aside from Empire space, I see few reasons to ever use T2 launchers.

So what exactly is the main factor at play here? Why the raison detre of the Bomber…the Bomb Launcher itself and the biggest advocate for mobility. If not in empire, never not bomb launcher! Ton for ton the Stealth Bomber is the most destructive thing in space specifically because its bomb launcher. Make use of this! If you are not you are flying half a ship. The launcher itself is why having your low slot open for a Nano II is so important. The low slots interact directly with your high slots. Bombers are pretty sluggish for frigates but with a Nano II they can get pretty agile. In the world of cov ops, EVERY SECOND COUNTS so any second you can shave off of your align time is a second less that the enemy has time to react. Depending on your bomber you may be able to fit two nano IIs and a BCU II.

Low slots and Rig slots are more or less fulfilling the same role as the other. For example the Nano II you just fit in works pretty much the same as a Low Friction Nozzle and a Polycarb in your rigs. The equivalent of that BCU II is equivalent to the RoF and Damage rig slots. In every case the two rigs = one low slot. I personally prefer flying 4 mid slot Bombers (Nemesis and Manticore) and find that you get the maximum amount of ability out of your bomber by using a Nano II, Polycarb, LF Nozzle for mobility. I don’t really have a problem stacking mobility modules but I avoid it concerning DPS which is why I only fit one BCU II.

And thus we move on to the mid slots, the most debatable and rage creating portion of this article. We’ll start off with a pivot point that cannot be ignored. The Tech 2 Warp Disruptor. Fit it. Almost every pvp engagement you will ever have is based off of this. Now of course an Arazu or an Interceptor can and will do a better job than any bomber can at tackling. However by making sure every bomber in your fleet has a T2 WD, it provides a massive net to catch enemy ships or even if you happen to be out there by yourself and you catch a lone hauler. Tech2 is also a must. With proper boosts you can get in the high mid to high 30s range and should always be partnered with the next extremely important module.

The Sensor Damp. (Meta 4 when possible) No you don’t get any bonuses for it, yes it eats your cap, but this is a portion of your tank. Even just a handful of bombers each equipped with a damp will decrease the enemy lock on range exterminating almost any viable threat to your well being. Generally it is best to use a range script but if possible, starting off with a res script and switching over to a range script is also very viable. You can also use res scripts in combination with an ECM ship making it so that if any jams are missed their resolution will be so low they’ll be jammed by the time they can acquire a lock.

And the last EWAR module on your bomber should be a Target Painter (meta 4 of course depending on your fitting capabilities.) It boosts the sig radius on the target therefore boosting your over all DPS. Fairly simple. Now some bombers have 4 mid slots, others have 3. If you are flying a Purifier/Hound you will have to choose between a TP or a SD. Always go SD.

An alternative EWAR module is the Turret Disruptor. While it eats less cap than a SD, its CPU requirements are pretty large for only partial weapon protection.

Lastly and the most controversial is the prop mod. Afterburner or MWD? Well let’s consider the role of the prop mod and how it works on the Stealth Bomber. We want fitting, we want mobility, we want ways that allow us to avoid damage as nothing we can fit on a bomber can be considered a proper tank only a half measure. Both the AB and the MWD provide certain advantages and disadvantages and should be considered based on your needs. We must first consider how each one is used.

The Afterburner provides a small boost in speed, easier fitting, no sig bloom radius and is not as taxing on our capacitor as the MWD. While the AB does not allow us to control range as easily as the MWD, it does however allow us to avoid damage through the use of transversal while keeping our sig bloom down letting us deal with both turret and missile damage that hits easier.

The MWD provides a massive boost in speed but it’s much harder to fit and we have no bonus to deal with the sig radius bloom. Our capacitor is also pretty small due to penalty MWDs carry even if the MWD is not activated. The one thing that the MWD does provide though is range control. It allows us to keep up with a target better or get away. Most importantly it allows us to deal with bubble camps. Jumping into a system only to find it swarmed by ships and bubbled is difficult to deal with already. The MWD + cloak trick gives us a pretty good chance to get away.

Taking these things into consideration alone it would seem that it’s a bit of a toss up. However let us consider the composition of your gang of bombers. If you are flying properly, you will most likely have with you a few recons including a rapier or even just an interceptor. Instead of fitting a half dozen + bombers with MWD for range control, you can just fit one rapier with some webs. You don’t need to chase anyone and you should be uncloaked at the proper range to begin with. Literally the only two reasons left is if you are flying an improper fleet composition that doesn’t compliment itself, or you need to get through a gate camp. Even in the latter example there are ways around it such as scouting it out with an interceptor or using a cov ops cyno. It’s really a question of “can we do it properly?” And if you can’t, yeah take a MWD if you really need to. Just keep in mind that along with the draw backs that the module itself causes, you will have further fitting requirement issues depending on your bomber.

In the end your bomber will look somewhat like this:

(was a lulz gallente station loss)

The Manticore can be fit exactly like that although it has a bit more CPU if you can’t go meta4 or if you have poor fitting skills. The Purifier/Hound can simply go dual nano with no TP or single nano, cpu rig for dual BCU II. Wouldn’t recommend it but you have some leeway.

I’m sure some of you reading this so far are asking yourselves “but what would the Medium Shield Extender” or “Where’s your DCU II?” To that I answer, on a ship that actually makes proper use of those modules. Both of these modules absolutely screw you out of much needed CPU/PG and force you to give up mobility and/or dps. These modules deny your maximum potential and offer only a half measure tank in exchange.

“But Seraph! I once took a full alpha from a hurricane and survived in low structure because of the MSE!!!” This is an argument I’ve heard several times but unfortunately it doesn’t hold much water. If you were flying your bomber properly to begin with your transversal and ewar would have been a much better tank. Just because putting training wheels on your bike means you are somewhat less likely to fall, doesn’t mean you should have them on your bike when trying to ride it properly. Just like how training wheels add drag and speed problems on your bike, the MSE/DCU II cause problems for your bomber.

Fitting a DCU II will cause you to lose a low slot along with the CPU you would have used for your BCU II. In essence you are trading a little bit of tank for your only damage module on your ship. Or you are fitting both the DCU II and the BCU II but losing the mobility from the NanoII or the rig slot depending on the bomber you fly. I would argue DCU II are marginally useful in Empire space where you don’t have the burden of fitting your bomb launcher, but even then you should have a proper fleet composition of recons/ewar on your bombers to act as your tank.

Even worse than the DCU II is the hated MSE. While offering only a little bit more EHP than the DCU II it will totally screw you. On paper it looks nice. Wow look at all that EHP. But in practice what do you lose? First off you’re going to lose a mid slot. Goodbye Sensor Damp or Warp Disruptor. On top of that you are also going to lose a low slots/rig slots because they will either all or partially be filled with CPU/PG fitting modules. That means that for a “meh” tank that you wouldn’t need anyway if you flew properly, you are losing a large portion of your mobility, ewar, and DPS. You can’t change the limits of your bomber (well unless CCP changes it) but in the arena of personal flying skill, you are responsible.

The popularity of the MSE among Bombers Bar comes from the same doctrinal evolution as the preference over using Jav torp ammo. It’s a shift based on inefficiency and misguided understanding of the pros and cons of how to fit the bomber. This misjudgment is not limited just to bbar but also others who swear that the MSE “helped them tank that Apoc’s drones long enough to kill it while it was ratting.” Again these are exceptions due to misusing the bomber. Sure you can solo with it, but it truly comes out in a small team setting with competent people who know how to competently fly their ship. Again this is a fitting method to make max potential of the bomber in its intended use. I understand that in certain situations you can fit something completely off the walls and make it work. I’m not here to deny that.

Lastly I will go over some of the subtle yet important differences between the four races. This part is a bit jumbled since every bomber does something better than one of the other bombers. You can’t mention one without the others so I may end up repeating myself.

Purifier: Its damage type is EM which unfortunately limits the targets you can engage more so than any other bomber. EM would be perfect for shield tank ships except that any competently fit shield ship will plug its EM hole leaving the lowest resistance at Thermal. The only time EM damage is preferred is when shooting T2/3 Caldari ships which have low EM resistance while tanking the other three fairly well. There are cases where Amarr T2/3 ships also have fairly low EM resistances.

Its two major advantages are its capacitor which is higher than any other bomber as well as its cargo hold which allows it to carry more ammo. It lacks the 4th mid slot and you will need the 3rd low slot for the secondary nano considering the Purifier is the slowest of all bombers. Over all this is the last bomber I would fly.

Nemesis: Its damage type is Thermal which more often than not ends up being the lowest OVER ALL resist on most ships. As stated above shield ships will plug their EM leaving thermal as their lowest resist. When fighting armor you must consider you have to punch through a shield regardless of the target. Thermal offers a good “in between damage” that’s not too terrible against too many ships while more often than not falling in the weakness spot of other ships.

Over all the Nemesis is fairly under rated due to the difficulty for newer players to fit. With perfect fitting skills most of the complaints go away however. It boasts the 2nd highest capacitor which lets you run all four mid slot modules for an extended period of time. It has the 2nd highest top speed but has horrible align time. You will definitely need the “mobility trinity” in the name of the Nano, the Polycarb and the Low Friction Nozzle.

Manticore: Its damage type is Kinetic which puts it in line a bit with the Thermal damage type as a sort of “in between.” While not falling in the “resist weakness slot” as often as Thermal, you do have a bit of an advantage in that if you are hitting a shield ship, its larger sig radius will absorb more damage. If hitting an armor ship, the kinetic damage type does the 2nd best damage type for its resists.

The Manticore is one of the favorites having the largest CPU of any of the bombers by quite a bit. If you’re just getting into the game and you want to fly bombers, starting with the Manticore is great as Caldari skill set compliments the Manticore quite well (missile systems etc). It has the 4 mid slots that I personally prefer letting you use the prop mod/damp/point/tp combination. Unfortunately it has the 2nd weakest capacitor and you soon find yourself having to pick and choose which ewar system you want to use during longer engagements. While it has nice align time 2nd only to the Hound, its top speed is 3rd and surprisingly noticeable. It also carries the largest sig radius of any of the bombers and coupled with your below average speed, makes you a bit softer than the other targets. Over all nothing that cannot be handled by proper piloting.

Hound: Its damage type is Explosive which limits its targets of engagement mostly to armor tanked ships. Even so it is not too terrible against shield tanked ships for the same reason Kinetic isn’t that terrible either. Since torps rely on sig radius to apply damage, consider that a shield tanked ship, even if boasting high resists to explosive damage, will still take a good amount due to its larger sig radius.

Although I prefer 4 slot bombers, the Hound has won my respect simply for its speed and align time. While the damage type is somewhat limiting, its mobility allows for quick allocation of targets. Its draw backs are its small cargo space, its terrible capacitor and equally terrible lock on range. While you still reach the 60 KM needed for meta4 launchers + faction ammo, its generally nice to be in the 80+ km range (with boosts) that you get with the other bombers when boosts are applied simply for the ability to project your sensor damp as far as possible.

The bombers themselves are really made to compliment one another and they should be considered on their strengths and weaknesses rather than just one or the other. I can think of quite a few times when we had a Tengu tackled that would have tanked our entire group of bombers were it not for the EM hole puncturing Purifiers. There were countless times when the capacitor on my Nemesis was a God send letting me hold tackle, damp, tp and AB my target while scorching the enemy’s tank with thermal. Other times the Manticore’s fitting flexibility allowed me to take the bomber’s potential further. In other instances the Hound’s speed proved to be invaluable to my survivability.

To conclude I would say that there is no “best bomber” or even “best fit.” Simply one must recognize the pros and cons of whatever you are fitting and then use the bomber in its proper manner which includes a proper fleet composition composed of capable tackle and recon ships.

– Seraph IX Basarab

237 Comments

  1. Jesus Loves You

    Posting in yet another: I don’t fit an MSE to my frigate sized hull thread.

    On a more serious note, could we have a check for at least basic competency before people are allowed to write fitting articles?

    September 18, 2013 at 5:06 pm Reply
    1. Dirk MacGirk

      Your competency check is in saying what you disagree with, how you would do it better and then letting everyone else judge your work. But if you can’t be bothered then the competency check is for you to perhaps not comment.

      September 18, 2013 at 5:22 pm Reply
      1. Jesus Loves You

        I’m saying you are 100% retarded if you don’t fit an MSE to most frigate hulls. There are special cases where an MSE would not make sense. For a bomber, I can’t think of a single one.

        September 18, 2013 at 5:28 pm Reply
        1. Dirk MacGirk

          And he is saying the combination of dps, damps and maneuverability are more beneficial. Not saying you’re wrong. I think his fit is based on a bit more talent and fleet cohesion whereas the MSE is maybe for those where maybe they are less secure. Just saying there are more ways than true tank. See, disagreement is better than simple wtf bad fitting.

          September 18, 2013 at 5:39 pm Reply
          1. Jesus Loves You

            Sorry, but no.

            I have no idea where the OP flies bombers, but most likely he either hides in station, or drops with an overwhelming force so his fit doesn’t matter. There is absolutely no excuse for flying a bomber with such low EHP that if someone sneezed on you, you are dead.

            Had he argued that the 4 mid-slot bombers were the best (he does, but fails to realize that he sacrifices DPS due to fewer low slots – or I failed to read that part) because you can fit speed mod, MSE, point AND some sort of EWAR he would have been OK in my book – but 2x EWAR on a T2 frigate hull where he fits rigs that lowers his EHP even more? NOPE, just retarded.

            September 18, 2013 at 5:50 pm
          2. Dirk MacGirk

            Tough crowd. Disagree on one mod, that doesn’t happen to be the cloak or torp launchers, and it’s a shit fit. Lol

            Imagine if we were not talking about a glass cannon.

            September 18, 2013 at 7:38 pm
          3. Seraph IX Basarab

            I never said don’t fit MSEs on frigates…i said dont use mses on bombers. Pay attention. And dual fitting BCU IIs is inefficient due to stacking penalties. Fly for mobility. You don’t really even need that much dps from bombers to kill a ship. bombers don’t have good enough EHP to justify sacrificing mobility and fire power for a half assed tank. Seriously if you are getting shot in a bomber, you’ve picked an improper engagement.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:31 pm
          4. Jesus Loves You

            I paid plenty of attention, I actually read the piece and had to gag several times.

            So dual fitting damage mods is now inefficient due to stacking penalties? Really? Where do you get these gems from?

            The rest of your reply just reads as if you always hotdrop / engage with such an extreme excessive force making the fits you use irrelevant.

            With that in mind, I can see where you get your fits from now.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:44 pm
          5. Seraph IX Basarab

            Perhaps you should have paid more attention or perhaps you pay your attention in food stamps. I specified small gang engagements using cov ops and that using too many bombers is inefficient. You caught onto that much right?

            And yes, two BCU IIs have damage penalties. I’d rather stack align time/mobility modules and be able to warp out on a moment’s notice than half a shitty MSE tank that may or may not keep me alive.

            MSE’s if you can’t fly and you plan on getting hit. Mobility if you know how to fly.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:50 pm
          6. Jesus Loves You

            Its obvious you have no idea how to fly bombers and whenever people tell you different its because they don’t know how to fly.

            Hilarious read, thanks for all the tears – I’ll leave it here and conclude you are a moron with no self respect, you are unable to take any form of criticism without crying, you have only flown bombers in big blobs and have absolutely no clue about Eve.

            o7 m8.

            September 19, 2013 at 9:30 am
          7. A Merc

            As usually fits are always situation. For small gang blops with bombers, (with 1 recon on backup, Falcon) your effectively looking to gank 1 to 3 dudes depending on what your H/K can sufficiently tackle. Personally I prefer bombers in following order.

            a) 650dps, 2x BCU with rage, typically MSE for tank due to CPU restrictions. launcher is usually unfit in the POS as 90% of engagements don’t require it. Racial bomber specific to region, (more effective against anom runners.) and 1 ewar mod usually TP as the fitting is really tight.

            b) 300-450dps, 1x BCU fit with named launchers, typically with a DCII. Skills means they don’t have rage torps so not worth the 2nd BCU and CPU strain. Does mean they have the CPU to add better Ewar mods so you get SD / TP / TD. Probably has an offline launcher.

            c) 300-400dps. Tackle bomber, just one with SB + Disrup. Sole purpose is to catch the targets pod when the ship pops.

            The obvious point with a BLOPs gank / bubble camp provided the recon / T3 for the tackle can sustain the fire for 10-15 seconds then after a certain level of Alpha the fits become less relevant.

            Its interesting when you get 2-3 support guys that show up but you have the normal FC decisions to make, Is it a real threat to the bombers and if so can I immobilize it to apply damage.

            September 19, 2013 at 8:04 am
        2. Psianh Auvyander

          The only scenario that I think is acceptable to fit an MSE, personally, is in a ‘travel’ fit. The MSE will give a bit of a bonus, even when turned off, while a DC II only works while active. An MSE has saved a few Noir. pilots from smartbombing battleships, but when it’s Go Time, they almost always switch to a damage control.

          September 19, 2013 at 12:16 am Reply
  2. Jesus says fuck you

    shitty post from shitty poster wtf is wrong with en

    September 18, 2013 at 5:14 pm Reply
  3. Dirk MacGirk

    Very nice article Seraph. Good primer for those looking to get it. As well as some good ideas for those who think they already know.

    September 18, 2013 at 5:17 pm Reply
  4. Junko

    You have absolutely no fucking idea what you’re talking about.

    September 18, 2013 at 5:29 pm Reply
    1. John

      Actually as a guy who flew with seraph before he really does. Note this guy used to FC all the time for covops fleets and actually tought a lot of people usefull knowledge.

      September 18, 2013 at 6:07 pm Reply
      1. Dumbledore

        I’m sorry to be the messenger, but while bombers bar is known for their ability to bomb the gate (no offense), pizza bombers are known for their ability to blopdrop, solo, and bomb the living shit out of everyone (excuse my French).

        September 18, 2013 at 6:19 pm Reply
        1. Jayne Fillon

          Such is a problem with dealing with a constant flow of new people to our community – Bombers Bar has’t been able to reach the level of alliances such as Pizza or the former Gypsy Band. However, we still operate Bombers nearly every day, teach people to fly them from square one, and dabble in the higher level operations when we can (to varied success).

          But ultimately, Junko is right in that Seraph is hardly an authority on Bombers and is generally clueless about their usage. I should know, too: I’ve flown with him not only while he was in Bombers Bar, but served under him as a director within his Corporation. Thankfully both of those are past tense.

          September 18, 2013 at 7:37 pm Reply
          1. Seraph IX Basarab

            Jayne i don’t know what you are so god awfully butthurt about but it’s sad to see someone that is so nice and pleasant to my face, turn into such a diva here. I didn’t really make much mention of bbar and I’ve said nothing untrue. And for the record as a director you did squat but complain, pass off intel, and be useless.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:25 pm
          2. scrub

            And what did you do Seraph? Besides going inactive? At the very least Jayne was logging in to talk to us rather than spreading the EVE-O Forums with butthurt and drama. You spent more time unleashing tears than you did talking to your own corpmates. Is it any wonder Hades failscaded?

            September 18, 2013 at 9:42 pm
          3. Seraph IX Basarab

            Apparently I’m still unleashing your tears scrub. “Chatting” doesn’t make one a good director. Doing the job you signed on to do is. Grow up.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:48 pm
          4. scrub

            So refusing to relinquish control of a corporation when no one wanted your “leadership” is doing your job, eh? You can beat around the bush all you like, Seraph but it doesn’t change the fact that you were never around and weren’t doing the job you signed on for.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:53 pm
          5. Seraph IX Basarab

            Probably because I don’t give the reigns to a corp to a guy like Crazey Monkey who showed up maybe twice, FCed once, lost his Arazu, did literally nothing of what he said he would when we formed the corp yet expected leadership position from day one. And the guy went to some scrub 0.0 renting alliance and they did nothing there too.

            Please, get some perspective.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:57 pm
          6. scrub

            Here’s some perspective:
            You dragged Hades through the mud on EVE-O for weeks before the corp had finally had enough and requested that you step down. It didn’t matter who the reigns were going to, the fact remains that no one wanted you in that position anymore. Do you know why Crazey was chosen? Because he wasn’t a shittalking figurehead and he actually had a sense of impartiality. We would have rather had an inactive leader who responded to the needs of the corp over their own childish delusions. “The issue with that is however that I WAS talking with the rank and file.” That’s a lie and you know it, Seraph. Logging for 30 seconds once a week to remind us how you’d be more active again and again isn’t talking to the rank and file, it’s bullshitting. The rank and file felt uncomfortable around you, much like a group of soldiers would around an officer they could neither trust nor look up to. Every other leadership figure was on comms regularly, talking to the few active members Hades actually had. They were at least attempting to break the barrier that made Hades feel like a chicken with it’s head cut off. And these active members were driven out of the corp because of the china shop drama you were frequently at the center of. Or were failing to alleviate as a leadership figure. I find it incredibly amusing that you would criticize Crazey for taking an active group of pilots to a “scrub 0.0 renting” alliance and then doing nothing when you essentially did the same thing with a group of inactive pilots. Thanks for the opportunity to let everyone know you’re a http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1379534734016.gif that turned an awesome corp into a circle jerk of stupidity and deluded mentality.

            September 18, 2013 at 11:17 pm
          7. Seraph IX Basarab

            Wow I didn’t know Hades Effect was so important to you. I kind of moved on from that. Don’t worry maybe when I resub this account I’ll start it up again if it meant so much to you. Anyway I shouldn’t…but I will actually take the time to explain some things to you.

            Actually the issue concerning the Eve-O forums was concerning a disgruntled member who’s name I honestly forgot. The guy camped trade hubs and did pretty much nothing for the corp. What I did on the forums was defend the corp and its members against slander. If that makes me a bad leader in your book, so be it. I know what I did and why I did it. I don’t care what critics have to say, the important thing for me was my corp’s members.

            The initial idea of Hades Effect would be that Myself, Ezek and Crazey would draw upon their resources to form the corp. Out of the three, Crazey did literally nothing. He didn’t recruit any people, FC a single successful fleet, recruit anyone. He was not present almost at all, yet even before the corp’s conception. Actually the only reason Jayne was even pulled into the “higher tier director” position from a basic FC is because Crazey left a major void that needed to be filled. Between that, Ezek having his life issues making him inactive, my final semester of university, job and planning a wedding, all were factors that limited my complete dedication to the corp. I agree to that. But even so I was present much more than just 30 seconds a week. I was on 5 to 6 days a week, several hours each of those days (to my fiance’s displeasure.)

            Whatever the case, your criticisms would be much more valid had you not hid behind a fake name. I never made any issue about speaking openly and honestly even if some people gawk and speak stupidities.

            September 19, 2013 at 12:10 am
          8. Psianh Auvyander

            This was fun.

            September 19, 2013 at 12:14 am
          9. Broski North Star

            says some noir scrub whose part of a delusional guild of rping fudge packers irrelevant to 99 percent of the universe..

            September 19, 2013 at 1:48 am
          10. A Merc

            How dare you call us Role Players!!!

            September 19, 2013 at 10:11 am
          11. A Merc

            Certainly entertaining.

            Pass the popcorn Psianh

            September 19, 2013 at 7:39 am
          12. mrcrazy_monkey

            I totally agree. I wish I knew Seraph was so butthurt about me back then for. Its funny how he thinks I only lead one fleet. Really shows his inactivity.

            -The one they call Crazey.

            September 19, 2013 at 2:27 pm
          13. Seraph IX Basarab

            I wasn’t butthurt about you. I wasn’t anything about you. You weren’t there. Tell me how much of what you promised at the start of the corp did you do? Did you bring anyone like you said you would? No. Did you FC more than once, maybe twice? No. Were you recruiting anyone? No. All you did is talk a big game and manage to give ammo to Noir to bitch at us for nothing giving me work to do to defend the corp.

            http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=606419

            You were in the corp from Fed to May….so maybe 70 or so kills including pods that entire time you were in corp. The rest of the time you were absent. You brought nothing, did nothing, and then expected the corp to be laid at your feet because I defended the corp in a thread about a problem YOU created with Noir to begin with. Yeah ok…good one.

            September 19, 2013 at 9:06 pm
          14. scrub

            If causing a massive backlash from a large portion of the merc community is in your eyes, “defending” a corp.. you’re even more deluded than I thought. That was the issue on EVE-O, the disgruntled member was a catalyst. And it continued even after Hades leadership told you to shut your mouth. Your determination to always have the last word actually caused much of the slander against Hades. I don’t really care why you did it, no one does. Crazey nor Jayne have anything to do with the fact that you were a shitty CEO. And enough lies already, Seraph.
            March:
            http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=849275&m=3&y=2013
            7 days of out of 31.
            April:
            http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=849275&m=4&y=2013
            9 days out of 30.
            May:
            http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=849275&m=5&y=2013
            1 day in all of May.

            Out of three months, you were active and shooting for 17 days. I don’t really give a shit about before that because I wasn’t there and don’t care anyway. You were never around much other than those days except to stick your nose in corp and blow smoke up everyone’s ass. I’m sure the pattern extends to prior months. Fake name? I was a scrub then and anyone that knows me will back me up that I’m still a scrub now. At least I have the backbone to admit when I suck at something rather than defy all reason. I’m being pretty open and dead honest. I’m so terribly sorry that I can’t be assed to please you and create an account just to respond to your delusions. Give my regards to your fiance, do me a favor and ask her how she decided to marry a pompous little weasel like you.

            September 19, 2013 at 7:03 am
          15. Seraph IX Basarab

            Backlash from the merc community? You’re completely deluded. Why cause some scrub guy from baw made “lol u mad” comments in the thread? Or are you referring to Noir? Heads up buddy, Noir were pissed off because of Crazey and Ezek. Crazey for spouting some non sense at our first meeting about how he would recruit Noir members (which were in BL) at the time, something he never did (or did much of anything at all really) and Ezek for talking to 2 rejected recruits from Noir. All that had NOTHING to do with me and all I did was defend the corp…not for the sake of looking good in the eyes of outsiders, but to show that I would stand up for my people. You see your problem is you care too much about what outsiders say. People in Eve will hate you no matter what you do. And FYI while Ezek was against me doing this in the forum for whatever anxiety issues, Jayne was telling me to actually hit harder. I was simply respectful and explained the situation. If people want to chime in and type “lol hur hur ur tears” after that, do I really care? Psh no.

            The days you counted with kills does not equate to the days I was online managing the corp. Perhaps you should do the same test on the directors that were suppose to be our main FCs. Please do those same tests on Crazey, Ezek and Jayne and tell me how they match up with my numbers. I can bet you that unless any of them went to slap on some bbar kills to pad the KB, none of them had my numbers for those months.

            Nobody is asking you to make an account, simply give the name of who you are. I’m pretty sure I know who you are and all i can say is that when shit doesn’t work right in a corp, people like you simply blame the CEO. You don’t have the insight or perspective on the happenings behind the scenes. Some major issues I had to deal with was the fact for example that as soon as we had enough numbers to fly a competent cov ops fleet, the main military director took us to fly conventional ships in low sec. So here we are a 0.0 cov ops corp and our first outing is flying destroyers and frigs in Black Rise. That killed our momentum. The next thing I also had to deal with was this constant “oh I got a contract in the works” from a couple of the directors you so adore. None of them formulated and we ended up sifting cat litter for weeks waiting for possible employers. We never really even got our name out there due to this.

            I can own up to my mistakes. I should have been more harsh on the two idiots we recruited that we ended up having to boot. The best thing Jayne did was boot whatever that guy’s name was. (Anya kilbor on the eveo forums) I try to give everyone a chance regardless of experience (which is why you were even in the corp if you are who i think you are.) And I let people who did not have the corp’s true interests in mind be an influence on me. That’s all.

            September 19, 2013 at 1:52 pm
          16. Jesus Loves You

            Except you start crying when people are honest and tell the truth. :sadface:

            September 19, 2013 at 9:25 am
          17. Jesus Loves You

            TEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSS!

            September 19, 2013 at 9:24 am
          18. Jayne Fillon

            At the expense of lowering myself to your level –

            It’s really strange a “useless” Director departed with the majority of your corporation (which no longer exists) immediately before you moved corp into an Alliance that no one wanted to join (and was kicked from soon after).

            September 18, 2013 at 9:43 pm
          19. Seraph IX Basarab

            You departed with the majority of the corporation or you kicked about 30 people from the corporation (most of which were inactive anyway?) And the alliance I joined, I was asked to join by their diplo. And I wasn’t “kicked,” I told WSS leadership I would be inactive for a prolonged period of time and to do what they pleased. It’s all together irrelevant to me. Now why are you so butthurt again that you feel the need to have this discussion?

            September 18, 2013 at 9:47 pm
          20. Jesus Loves You

            Sweet salty tears!

            September 19, 2013 at 9:23 am
          21. sherbertherbert

            OMG NO UR TEARS ARE SWEET AND SALTY OMG U R CRYING HARDEST LOLOLOLOL I TROLL U!! BE GEY WITF ME

            September 19, 2013 at 1:28 pm
          22. Dumbledore

            Wow, that escalated quickly

            September 19, 2013 at 4:24 pm
          23. Ezek Price

            Oh ho ho, shots fired.

            If we’re going to go knee deep into the ad hominen, leadership is always done from the front, to do which our directorship agreed to rotate on “shifts” as real life dictated.

            As reality unfolded, it appeared that certain leadership figures were pulling much more weight, and certainly Jayne was pulling weight in the community he was recruited from. Did that compromise his ability to serve in his leadership duties. Nope, not once.

            As far as Im aware, “chatting” to the rank and file IS an integral part of leadership. At least it is in the services, and if command structures and ethos from the military are anything to go by, you were the REMF who was absent from the front.

            September 18, 2013 at 10:13 pm
          24. Seraph IX Basarab

            The issue with that is however that I WAS talking with the rank and file. Ask my then fiance…she just loved knowing I’d get home to “be a presence” to the members as I told her. But you know from personal experience how life can pull you away from Eve no?

            As for Jayne, recruiting a guy here or a guy there doesn’t constitute really pulling weight. Crazey was almost completely absent, you were gone for LONG periods of time, weeks at a time, and Jayne sort of half assed it. I can’t fully blame him when all the other directors weren’t on much. I myself had some life matters to attend but I wasn’t playing dust or other games for example. I put a stupid amount of effort into HE.

            September 18, 2013 at 10:19 pm
          25. Ezek Price

            Yes I retired from EVE for 1 and a half months, for which I did declare I was going and expected our leadership structure to be able to tank.

            I cannot comment on the rest as I wasnt there, but I know Jayne ran fleets, there can be no question about it.

            September 18, 2013 at 10:24 pm
          26. Seraph IX Basarab

            Jayne did the bare minimum and always had his other foot somewhere else be it AAA or bbar. Mixed dedication, mixed loyalties. Plenty of other people ran a fleet here or there too. It was at the point where everyone was doing half a job (or none at all) and I had to fill that role. No surprise it did not work. Anyway i’m not here to shit on Jayne but if he’s going to talk non sense, i have no problem setting the story straight. Regardless of our falling out, you out of anyone know the sort of bs I had to deal with from certain people in the bar.

            September 18, 2013 at 10:30 pm
          27. Jesus Loves You

            Cry more, delicious tears here. nomnomnom.

            September 19, 2013 at 9:23 am
        2. Dirk MacGirk

          Well then how about Team Pizza write something. I’m sure many of us would find it instructional. Maybe it’s OpSec.

          September 18, 2013 at 7:40 pm Reply
          1. Jayne Fillon

            Bombing is not really something you can just write an article about and then have anyone who reads it be an expert. The sheer number of various scenarios in which Bombers are used in are ridiculous, all requiring a different fit. Are you in nullsec, or lowsec? Using a black ops or travelling by gates? Hunting ratters, capitals, or roaming? All of these things change the fit, and implying otherwise is lunacy. Bombers Bar uses a collection of 28 different fits for different purposes, none of which are built for solo PvP. To cover all of that + why + tactics would be a article or horrendous length.

            September 18, 2013 at 7:47 pm
          2. Dirk MacGirk

            No doubt. Obviously the more specialized a situation, a multitude of things can change. But from a bomber 101 point of view just basics that don’t get shitted out the window might be helpful.

            September 18, 2013 at 7:54 pm
          3. Jayne Fillon

            Well, I’ll consider writing one, but it won’t be posted here I assure you of that.

            September 18, 2013 at 7:56 pm
          4. Dirk MacGirk

            Reddit works lol

            September 18, 2013 at 8:02 pm
          5. meowmeow

            lol who the fuck are you again? a nobody. shut up jayne nobody gives a shit. go hug jita with the rest of your faggot reject corp members

            September 19, 2013 at 2:24 am
          6. Seraph IX Basarab

            Regardless of our differences, Jayne was a fairly competent bomber pilot and decent FC. I wouldn’t pass him off that fast.

            September 19, 2013 at 2:30 am
        3. Seraph IX Basarab

          Now hold on Dumbledore your wizardness, keep in mind I flew with bbar back early to mid last year when our gangs didn’t number more than a dozen most of the time and we went up against rival small gangs of CFC, NCdot and others back when we camped M-O and EC-P8R. While it is true bbar has not developed further than just that I have to say that I certainly tried my best to get it to where pizza is today (which is why i’m not there anymore). My hats off to the pizza guys for being a relevant 0.0 entity.

          September 18, 2013 at 9:22 pm Reply
  5. I </3 Structures

    As somebody who scouts a lot while on ops I love the dual prop bombers with point + damp or track disrupt.

    Ewar slots are the cov ops wild card, to fill with whatever your fleet needs more of. For that reason I favor 4 mid slot bombers over 3 to fill in ewar.

    Cov op fits should never be seen as static thing. The fits should be expected to change based on the OP. I always had several bombers fit for raw DPS or speed for ship to ship combat and another for agility when the only thing you know you’re gonna do is bomb blobs.

    September 18, 2013 at 5:35 pm Reply
  6. capqu

    not again…
    i’m still recovering from the interceptor article on tmc.com

    September 18, 2013 at 5:35 pm Reply
    1. capqu

      this is too funny
      “The MWD + cloak trick gives us a pretty good chance to get away.”
      do you even know what the mwd cloak trick is? i’ll give you a hint it doesnt involve a covops cloak

      September 18, 2013 at 6:03 pm Reply
      1. capqu

        “First off you’re going to lose a mid slot.”
        guys if you fit mid slot modules, you lose a mid slot. that’s a tradeoff i’m personally not willing to take ever

        September 18, 2013 at 6:04 pm Reply
      2. Hey Idiot

        The MWD+Cloak is different for cov ops but still does apply. With a cov ops your not speed penalized under cloak so the end results are different but impressive.

        September 18, 2013 at 8:30 pm Reply
      3. dont talk retard

        Do you know what the MWD + cloak trick is? You hit cloak and the MWD right away so you get a full cycle of MWD while you have your cloak on champ.

        September 18, 2013 at 9:18 pm Reply
        1. capqu

          haha okay dude, if activating modules during the cloaking window is a trick in your book then i don’t think i’ll bother trying to explain to you what MWD cloak trick means to most people

          September 19, 2013 at 1:06 am Reply
          1. dont talk retard

            its not that its a trick in anyone’s book. why are you quipping about semantics?

            September 19, 2013 at 1:14 am
          2. Seraph IX Basarab

            Does it matter what we call it? Trick or not? The point is you cloak and hit your MWD to get away from the bubble camp. Do you really need to argue about that? Go outside.

            September 19, 2013 at 1:14 am
          3. capqu

            i wish you had gone outside instead of writing this garbage

            September 19, 2013 at 1:22 am
          4. Seraph IX Basarab

            I wish I could hug you instead.

            September 19, 2013 at 1:24 am
          5. capqu

            app to love squad

            September 19, 2013 at 1:27 am
          6. Seraph IX Basarab

            With another character?

            September 19, 2013 at 1:28 am
  7. Provi Miner

    lol i love bombers they are one of the few ships that still make me breath deep before comitting to combat. i have had some good runs but mostly there is only death at the end of the day. Often my bombers die simply becuase of being used incorrectly. “hang around scoop loot” the FC says 15 seconds later and slasher is slaughtering bombers left and right. Still a reall fun ship to fly (right behind cov-ops, and Blockade Runners)

    September 18, 2013 at 5:38 pm Reply
  8. Lithalnas

    a full alpha from a hurricane still has a 50% chance of poping you even with a MSE. The point of the MSE is really to prevent things like thrashers from poping you while the rest of the fleets torpedoes make their way to the destroyer. Second the MSE is very nice to have when camping a jump bridge, POS guns are fairly quick to target and have good tracking, you are most likely going to be hit by small autocannons or lasers but the fact remains that an MSE will save you in the time it takes for you to set off two torpedo volley and then warp out. Lastly right now the Flavor of the Month to counter bombers is more bombers with bombs. Bombs do not decloak a stealth bomber but they still do damage. Yes you should be aligned out but many times you are not. You can take 3 bombs with an MSE on most fits and 4 bombs on others.

    September 18, 2013 at 5:39 pm Reply
    1. Dirk MacGirk

      Logical. It all comes down to knowing your use and the environment you plan to operate in. Have to be flexible and fit accordingly.

      September 18, 2013 at 5:42 pm Reply
    2. Seraph IX Basarab

      If it’s an insta lock arty cane you can just fly under its guns. It has no tank, 1 salvo from 4 bombers will knock it out of the sky. If it isn’t insta lock arty then you can just damp its range down and it will die from a couple of salvos from the same number of ships. Always use recons.

      September 18, 2013 at 9:29 pm Reply
  9. DNSMax

    Your analysis surprises me, your own fit seems to be entirely ‘solo’ orientated.

    Here’s the small gang flipside.

    Primary considerations.

    Consider the Stealth Bombers role bonus:

    Bomb launcher – Fit a bomb launcher.
    Cloaking – Fit a Covert ops cloak.
    Covert cyno – Not for combat.

    Now the skill bonuses:

    Torpedoes, QUAD bonus – Fit for maximum torp damage, using launchers, ballistic controls, painters and missile rigs.
    Bomb damage, single racial bonus – Use the appropriate racial bombs.

    Secondary considerations.

    Speed – Fitting a prop mod is essential for combat.
    Tank – Using a MSE to DOUBLE your EHP for only +5 sig is a good deal.

    Agility – Use nanofibres and polycarbs only if fitting allows.

    Tertiary considerations.

    EWAR – Unbonussed TD’s are stronger than unbonussed damps, fit for the spare mid, use a second painter if CPU limited.
    Tackle – Someone elses job, you shouldn’t be that close.

    Finally, comments:

    X-Instinct and command bonuses can work wonders for your sig. and will completely offset any penalty from the MSE.

    The Nemesis is HORRIBLE to fit properly whereas the Purifier is easy. Frigate cross-training is only a week or so.

    Rage torps work great on anything shield cruiser or bigger when it’s covered in paint.

    Javelins are statistically the same as faction torps, they just trade some damage for additional velocity and will often still hit a ship that just flew out of lock range.

    Damage type becomes far less relevant when you simply fit to maximise it. Overheated a properly fit bomber can do ~860 DPS before adding hardwires so I really don’t care what the targets resist profile might be, settle inane arguments like this by looking at the killmail afterwards and see which bomber got top damage.

    September 18, 2013 at 6:27 pm Reply
    1. Jesus Loves You

      Now THIS! IS a proper discussion on how to fit a bomber. The OP could take notes here and rewrite his article.

      (and yes, the Nemesis is horrible to fit!)

      September 18, 2013 at 7:08 pm Reply
    2. Dirk MacGirk

      Who the hell are DNS 😛

      See, I’d love to see some serious write ups by the groups out there who specialize in this stuff. It makes for great recruitment advertising if nothing else. People read, learn a little and then maybe want to fly with you. DNS, RNK, Pizza, etc. It’s always good to hear from groups like this. I just wish it was longer and more detailed than: you suck. Lol

      September 18, 2013 at 7:49 pm Reply
      1. DNSMax

        You suck, stop mining in Bar 😛

        September 18, 2013 at 7:52 pm Reply
        1. Dirk MacGirk

          Not me. I’ve been off the rocks for over 3 years. Clean and sober. Lol

          September 18, 2013 at 8:00 pm Reply
      2. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

        Maybe I can talk God7705 into doing a writeup. Our corp, Sneaky Bastards, does specialize in BLOPs. And before you start hollering, Jayne. I do believe we ran into you BB guys near Provi about a month ago… we handed Bomber’s Bar their ass.

        September 18, 2013 at 8:24 pm Reply
        1. Dirk MacGirk

          Yeah Dog would be another good one to chime in. Anything I know about BLOPS was due to him. I still refer back to some stuff he put together after his time with DNS.

          September 18, 2013 at 8:35 pm Reply
        2. Jayne Fillon

          Holler holler. We get our ass kicked regularly, I never claimed to be elite.

          It’s what happens when you deal with completely new people, have open fleets and voice comms, and fight assault frigates. Providence sucks, but it’s a good place for trial by fire.

          September 18, 2013 at 8:47 pm Reply
          1. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

            Actually, we hot dropped your hunter, who counter hot dropped us and the fight was on. Was a great fight though.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:24 pm
          2. Jayne Fillon

            Oh I don’t think I was there for that one! Would have been fun – counter drops are way too rare and far too exciting.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:35 pm
      3. Snorkle25

        To be fair, this wasn’t that bad of an article. Sep identifies (correctly) a lot of the strengths that a SB should embrace and why. We just fault the order of priorities that he emphasizes and the logic he uses to justify those choices.

        Don’t mistake our input as an insult, if we didn’t think he was smart enough to listen to a counter argument we wouldn’t have even bothered posting. And to be fair, we rarely bomb but instead hot drop a lot so most of our emphasis is on the torp damage. Pizza on the other hand does a lot more bombing runs than us so I could see them emphasis agility and fits that don’t require off-lining the bomb launcher.

        September 20, 2013 at 10:07 pm Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          Yeah very true. A bomb launcher bomber is a complete different animal than a torp only bomber. I prefer the bomb launcher just because i’m a maniac for explosions and will continually seek out those opportunities. Take that out of the equation and I think we see eye to eye on 90 percent of what is being exchanged here.

          September 21, 2013 at 1:33 am Reply
    3. Seraph IX Basarab

      Your MSE doubles your tank but that’s not much when you’re just doubling a wet paper bag. Your BCU II and your rigs will have stacking penalties, AKA wasted CPU. And TDs may be stronger than damps, but they only work for turrets. You can dodge turrets, you can’t dodge missiles. Rage only apply full damage in battleships or higher and for the battleship it needs to be trippled webbed and painted. At that point you might as well use meta4 faction and still have a competent hull to fly.

      Thanks for the consideration regardless.

      September 18, 2013 at 9:15 pm Reply
      1. Snorkle25

        As for TD vs Sensor damp, if your inside 20 km (you fit a point, remember?) your going to need more than one damp to cut the lock range down enough. On the other hand, that one TD can take out a 720 cane or zealot entirely at the same range. Yeah it doesn’t effect missiles but your big threats aren’t missile boats, they’re insta canes and pulse lasers with scorch.

        September 20, 2013 at 9:59 pm Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          20 KM? Try 35 + with boosts. I’d want to run a professional crew here, not an afternoon leisure camp. But ideally you won’t be the one having to hold point on the target. You just need to get initial point until the Arazu takes over. But if you do need to get point, you can fly under the guns of a 720 cane or pulse zealot easily enough. You can then use the damps to cover your ass from his buddy trying to pick you off with arty at range. I almost never use the damps on the target im tackling.

          September 21, 2013 at 1:31 am Reply
          1. Snorkle25

            See if you use the arazu’s as the initial hunter it will already have point and if you fly max DPS your bombers will have already killed the target before they can fly out of his point range. Additional point and webs come in with the rapiers.

            September 21, 2013 at 2:31 am
          2. Seraph IX Basarab

            No the Arazu wouldn’t be my initial hunter because it has a decloak delay. The bomber initially grabs the target then arazu holds and damps it. Also i
            i’d never fit a point on the rapier. I’d prefer to use your maximum web range.

            I think the thing you say is generally useful for more hot drop oriented engagements. I never really liked those as it means most people are just sitting on the blops ship until the hunter finds something. I’d use bombers more as an asset denial for the initial fight and turn into a 5th column vanguard detachment once the conventional fleet arrives.

            September 21, 2013 at 4:26 pm
  10. A DNS'er

    Mostly pretty good, there are a few corrections though. With a proper fleet the warp disruptor is a wasted mid, lose it. Bombers should never be close enough to point anything anyways.

    Second, in a proper fleet, the MSE is for bomb protection, also, that’s why you have an AB and not a micro. I have been bombed in a bomber multiple times and never died due to this. And I don’t just mean in low structure. With an AB and a MSE you will rarely ever enter armor so it’s a great combo when flown correctly.

    Nano’s are a great mod, but so are more BCU’s. Purifier and hound are best due to their fitting abilities and excellent damage projection. As for torp launchers, I go T2 when able but I can’t fault people who use arbalest launchers either. Rage are actually a match or better than faction on shield battle cruiser and larger, and better on ALL battleship targets.

    Last, I would say, two BCU’s should be your target, not one. I personally fly a 3 BCU, T2 launcher purifier as my standard fit that nets me over 800 DPS out past 50 km with a 5k alpha. Yes I make some trade offs, but smart piloting and good SA means that I rarely find myself in trouble.

    All in all I think this is a great baseline article for new or inexperienced bomber pilots.

    September 18, 2013 at 6:33 pm Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      Actually the AB does NOTHING to mitigate bomb damage. Bomb damaged is applied regardless of your speed. The MSE will hold up to 3 or maybe 4 bombs depending on damage type but having mobility instead of MSE will let you warp out and avoid damage completely. At the end of the day you ask yourself do you put on a half measure tank to sort of maybe sometimes save you, or do you maximize your strength of mobility and be even faster and avoid damage completely?

      Stacking 3 BCUIIs is terribly wasteful. And you are done 800 DPS with EM damage. Rage doesn’t apply full damage on almost any sub cap either.

      September 18, 2013 at 9:12 pm Reply
      1. Snorkle25

        An AB gets you out of the 15km explosion range without blooming your sig like a micro. So directly, no, but indirectly, yes it does help. With good skills and overheat its about 850-1000 m/s with a 1MN AB. As for nano’s they aren’t necessary, I can warp in under 6 seconds without a single align mod and bomb flight time is 15 seconds. As for BCU’s it’s all about playing to the bombers strength and that extra alpha from the third BCU is key in making maximum damage happen in a minimum window. Now I don’t fly 3xBCU for bomb runs, but for that I use hounds.

        You also have your bomber priorities out of order. DPS is on top, over alignment and speed. It’s not an insane assumption to expect 500 DPS minimum from a meta fit bomber with faction torps and if your getting less than this then your not prioritizing DPS enough. Remember, it’s alpha over ROF every time since you only get one volley usually. And align time rounds up.

        September 20, 2013 at 9:14 pm Reply
      2. Snorkle25

        Again, with painters rage is FULL DPS on ANY battlecruiser and above in game. And if EM is so bad why do I out damage the manti’s and ALL the nemesis on every drop? It’s because 60% of 850 is still greater than 50% of 500 which is what you get in a nemesis on OH. And I still get 750+ with CN faction torps so I still out DPS on small targets too.

        I started out with the nemesis and after 2 years got purifiers and hounds. Now I’m never you going back because they are better than the nemesis in every way, with every fit. And no, therm damage DOESN’T make up for the myriad of short comings on that hull.

        September 20, 2013 at 9:21 pm Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          But again you are talking about non bomb launcher bombers. To me I think it best to implement and use a bomber with a bomb launcher anywhere outside of empire. It’s a bit like using a MWD on an AF because you get the bonus. Yes there are times when AB is better but you try to implement the ship’s uses for their bonuses. And generally you don’t need THAT much more DPS to take out a ship with a handful of bombers.

          You don’t need to disagree with me about the AB, I completely prefer that for bombers over MWD 99 percent of the time. But I do disagree about the Nanos. You can warp out in under 6 seconds, but with a nano/polycarb/LFnozzle, you’d get that even lower. I mean really…count 6 seconds…do you have the tank to deal with that? Even with a plate or an MSE, slim chance. In an ideal world you are already prealigned to a warp out spot so you can bomb and warp off. But in a combat situation a lot of the time you have to rely on align time to get away. That’s what i’m preparing my fit for.

          September 21, 2013 at 1:29 am Reply
          1. Snorkle25

            Yes I do have the tank for that, because like a good bomber pilot I’m usually 40+km away aligned already. And I always fit an (off lined) bomb launcher. BTW, align time isn’t an issue on a proper bomb run like you always mention because you should always;
            1. Position the target between you and your warp off
            2. Align towards you warp off
            3. At full align and proper range, decloak and bomb
            4. Warp

            You have a cloak for a reason, use it.

            September 21, 2013 at 2:24 am
          2. Seraph IX Basarab

            You HOPE you can always have your target between yourself and your warp away point but most fights don’t end up happening that way.

            September 21, 2013 at 4:24 pm
  11. Ashimame

    I’ve just gotten into the bomber game in the last month and love my Manticore. I’ve been sticking mostly in lowsec space, but seeing how I can’t use a bomb launcher I want to expand out to WH or nullsec space. You mention the Bomber Bar — where can I get more information on how to join up?

    September 18, 2013 at 6:40 pm Reply
    1. Porucznik Borewicz

      You can get more information by joining xXPIZZAXx.

      September 18, 2013 at 6:43 pm Reply
    2. Jayne Fillon

      Howdy – I’m the head FC for Bombers Bar. If you join the in game channel “Bombers Bar” you can speak to everyone, read the MOTD for information, or just ask your question and someone will answer.

      September 18, 2013 at 7:21 pm Reply
      1. Ashimame

        Thanks Jayne!

        September 18, 2013 at 9:14 pm Reply
    3. Seraph IX Basarab

      Bombers bar for beginners learning. They generally have some decent FCs to fly under. Once you are done camping HED-GP/KBP-7 i’d recommend Pizza if you can deal with that sort of crowd.

      September 18, 2013 at 9:10 pm Reply
  12. slad

    Have you ever seen a bomber before?

    September 18, 2013 at 6:57 pm Reply
  13. Pizzaman

    I can see a reason for sensor damps but ffs why waste a mid on ECM o? Stop being a jew and pput a Falcon in your fleet if you want a jam. Also someone being from Romanian Legion should never give out fitting advice o7

    September 18, 2013 at 7:16 pm Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      No I never suggested bombers use ECM. ECM is always for the Falcon.

      Also once upon a time Romanian Legion was actually a really good alliance. When I got there you had a good core of talented Romanian pilots but they were mostly burned out and the rest of the fleets were filled with a mixture of nobodies that had to be herded into pvp.

      September 18, 2013 at 9:08 pm Reply
  14. I just do not know

    Another very good article.

    September 18, 2013 at 7:20 pm Reply
  15. Jayne Fillon

    A lot of hate for Bombers Bar in this article, and even some complete falsehoods.

    First, we don’t encourage the use of Javelin torpedoes over faction with meta launchers.
    Second, we use MSE for counter bombing protection, as someone already mentioned.

    For those who were not previously aware, Seraph was banned from Bombers Bar, and has not been a part of our organization for several months.This anecdotal shit slinging is both offensive, and childish. Next time try writing a constructive article instead of trying to step on everyone who actually plays the game.

    September 18, 2013 at 7:56 pm Reply
    1. I just do not know

      Yes I was aware that there was a falling out, many of us have flown bombers using fits for different tactical situations, for example I have been in bomber fleets that bombed at one point and then took out stragglers on gates, experience indicated dual prop was good to have as AB kept up trans and made tracking difficult and because we would BLOPS jump at times or go through gates which were bubbled at which point MWD cloak to burn out (which is what he meant by the way) , I know why the group I was in liked the dual prop and I understand why you use MSE and perhaps T2 launchers, there are good solid tactical reasons for their use.
      I liked this article because it was his view and he was an effective bomber FC, so I accept the differences and do not knock your evolution and his thoughts on it, he is focussed on get out fast as his primary objective, also I did not see hate, just explaining his point of view and perhaps being a bit over zealous in the locking range side of things, but that is an issue.

      September 18, 2013 at 8:43 pm Reply
    2. Seraph IX Basarab

      There’s no hate for Bombers bar. I’m simply explaining how bbar was in its earlier days, you know before you even joined, and compared it to how it was during its later times. There was no shit slinging. I’ve heard numerous times that jav torps are encouraged because they get to the target faster letting people do damage on the KMs. Really when you have 25 bombers hitting a lone drake you just want to hit it as fast as you can and move on.

      Anyway as i’ve said there is no shit slinging. Bbar is adapting to its numbers while the general skill level has been maintained at the level it has been at for over a year since it acts as a training ground.

      I don’t really see the need to air dirty laundry but if you do you might want to share the full story. The ban was for calling out Tempelman N and Anna on some childish behavior and causing drama rather than just playing the game, Xing up and shooting non purples. Politics never changes.

      September 18, 2013 at 9:07 pm Reply
    3. Jesus Loves You

      I understand why he was banned. I also assume it resulted in lots of tears. Hilarious.

      September 18, 2013 at 10:43 pm Reply
    4. Random guy

      huh, bombers bar bans people because they have different opinions?

      September 19, 2013 at 4:22 am Reply
      1. Jayne Fillon

        Haha, no. I wasn’t a part of the process, but I believe it had something to do with awoxing and mercenaries. I’d have to look it up to be more specific than that.

        September 19, 2013 at 4:27 am Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          Jayne don’t pretend. We both know that you’re smarter than that.

          Long story short there was an FC in bbar that was pretty obnoxious and terrible at what he did. A member from Venga Inc was complaining about the terrible FC and I jokingly suggested he should hire Hades Effect (my corp) to blow his fleet up. This was taken by Tempelman N as proof of my absolutely devious nature. The guy had been obsessed for months with how supposedly bad of a person I was. In reality it was a simple issue of “if its not my idea, it’s a bad idea” and he hated that someone else other than him would have a voice. In his mind bombers bar was “his” and I was “trying to steal it from him.” This sort of garbage caught wind with a few like minded individuals in this “council” set up and they banned me…nevermind I hadn’t been flying with bombers bar for months already. I tried to make peace and talk with the “leadership” there and when proof was lacking that there was any real wrong doing or intent the reason shifted to some vague garbage.

          What amuses me is that Jayne is pretending like he doesn’t already know this.

          September 19, 2013 at 4:37 am Reply
  16. Dirk MacGirk

    Serious question: in a standard gang setup, do you fit to max CPU with launcher online or do you tend to offline mods and online the launcher as needed?

    September 18, 2013 at 8:04 pm Reply
    1. DNSMax

      Yes.

      September 18, 2013 at 8:40 pm Reply
    2. Seraph IX Basarab

      I’ve had bomb launchers offlined on some quirkier fits but I generally don’t need to do that since I usually fit the “mobility trinity” which leaves me enough CPU. It varies from bomber to bomber (I fly all.)

      September 18, 2013 at 9:03 pm Reply
      1. scrub

        You don’t fly any, Seraph. When was the last time you actually logged in and shot at something? Yet, here we are faced with more of your inane drivel.

        September 18, 2013 at 9:14 pm Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          Man you are angry about something. Seraph isn’t the only character I have and I like to keep them separate. Wise up scrub.

          September 18, 2013 at 9:17 pm Reply
          1. scrub

            Is that how you’ve managed to remain so up-to-date on your information? I’d love to see some proof of your claim but I’ll sit quietly while you spoon feed everyone more bullshit.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:35 pm
          2. Seraph IX Basarab

            You’re a sad little angry child…and you have my pity.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:39 pm
          3. Jesus Loves You

            Sweet salty tears. Yum Yum. People calling you out, you crying.

            September 18, 2013 at 10:40 pm
          4. Gumption

            Your tears are delicious. No! Your tears are delicious. But you’re crying! NO YOU’RE CRYING!

            September 18, 2013 at 11:02 pm
          5. Jesus Loves You

            Exactly, its like the OP is 5 years old.

            September 19, 2013 at 9:19 am
          6. Gumption

            No you’re crying.

            September 19, 2013 at 7:53 pm
          7. Jesus Loves You

            Nah, I won’t cry near as much as all the bomber losses this article will cause.

            September 21, 2013 at 11:12 am
  17. Seraph Castillon

    write more text …

    September 18, 2013 at 8:05 pm Reply
  18. Ezek Price

    Theoretical fitting for a perfectly flown stealth bomber in a perfect situation.

    Never happens.

    September 18, 2013 at 8:15 pm Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      Exactly, which is why you fit to optimize your strengths.

      September 18, 2013 at 9:02 pm Reply
      1. Ezek Price

        EVE isnt a perfectly controlled environment. Certainly as the players increase in any given situation, the less you can control what you do – till of course you reach the orbit FC, F1 primary, overheat hardeners situation.

        Fitting a MSE therefore isnt training wheels, it’s fitting for redundancy. While it may gimp a fit (say on a Nemesis), it improves the damage application of a group of bombers by increasing the HP and therefore life expectancy.

        A dead DPS ship is a useless one.

        September 18, 2013 at 9:18 pm Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          Redundancy = inefficiency in this sense however. You can fit the MSE and take a hit…maybe live, maybe you don’t. I’ll use my ewar/transversal/align time to mitigate damage completely. You simply don’t get enough out of an MSE to justify the loss of all the other advantages.

          September 18, 2013 at 9:27 pm Reply
          1. Ezek Price

            Clarify… which sense are you talking about?

            Bombers are deployed in a range of things. You’re neglecting a bunch of those situations.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:30 pm
          2. Seraph IX Basarab

            In the sense that you need an MSE. MSE’s screw you out of DPS and mobility, your strengths. In exchange you get a quirky half measured tank. The mobility and fire power in effect acts as a better tank to you (since you kill the enemy and as you said, dead ship = zero dps) than a half assed tank from the MSE.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:33 pm
          3. Jesus Loves You

            The only thing that screws you out of dps is your weird fetish for the nemesis. Try something with 3 low slots mate, with an MSE in the mids 😀

            September 18, 2013 at 9:38 pm
          4. Seraph IX Basarab

            I fly all the bombers (actually all frigs and all small T2 weapons) so I actually do use all of them. I don’t use MSE because I don’t get hit.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:40 pm
          5. Soulxlight

            – I don’t use MSE because I don’t get hit.-

            That loss mail to that cynabal says different mate . . .

            I actually agree with you . . . buffer tanking frigate class ships against anything but frigate class ships is usually a waste of time. Usually much more useful to speed tank them . . . or use them in a group so roles can be divided up allowing specialization.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:59 pm
          6. Seraph IX Basarab

            Ha yeah in that situation I had undocked from a “lulz gallente station” and was getting bumped around by the station’s graphics itself. An MSE wouldn’t of saved me there either.

            September 18, 2013 at 10:01 pm
          7. Jesus Loves You

            Nah, he has a good explanation every time he dies, it had nothing to do with the lack of an MSE – can’t you see that?

            September 19, 2013 at 5:15 pm
          8. Seraph IX Basarab

            Can you give an example other wise? Anyway I enjoy seeing you be so argumentative over every little thing. Its nice to know I can give something to do to a nobody like you.

            September 19, 2013 at 8:59 pm
          9. Jesus Loves You

            Like wise, I made you waste a ton of time defending your wrong views despite you knowing they were wrong. Nice troll – hope I wasted so much of your time you’ll never write a fitting article again :-)

            September 21, 2013 at 11:11 am
          10. not a pl cyno

            You’re kind of slow aren’t you?

            September 21, 2013 at 4:22 pm
          11. Ezek Price

            You’re generalising. A MSE doesn’t always require fitting a MAPC to the lows nor does it necessarily involve gimping the rigs. Say the hound, I would rather fit an ancil rig + MSE, using two BCUs + nano in the lows than fit two astronautic rigs. After all the effect of rigs is inferior to a module.*

            Also, you seem to have this preconception of a situation a bomber is deployed in – lets just say its an asset denial style small gang bomber pvp. Yet no mention of the other multitude of applications a bomber has. While your fit is optimised for your situation, it is by no means a general and effective fitting for all bomber situations.

            *Also in the same vein, 3 BCUs is still more effective stats-wise than 2 BCUs+dmg rig + rof rig.

            September 18, 2013 at 9:42 pm
          12. Seraph IX Basarab

            I do believe I specified that I was talking about BOMB LAUNCHER FIT BOMBERS. I cannot stress this enough. If you had bomb launchers, your fit would not be possible unless you want to offline the bomb launcher. But in any case you won’t be able to optimize the launcher’s use due to your inferior aligntime.

            SO I know in situations where you don’t use a bomb launcher, using an MSE IS applicable in certain situations. My whole thing is, if you are getting the option to use the bomb launcher, why the hell not optimize for it (and all of your strengths?)

            September 18, 2013 at 9:44 pm
          13. Ezek Price

            Ignoring the Gokufit, and the torpless large 0.0 bloc bombing bombers, I still abide by my criticism that this optimisation of the bomber is combat ineffective.

            Your fitting ideals are theoretical and not grounded in practical EVE application.

            So while you have your ideal small gang asset denial bomber (and our discussion excludes the aforementioned nullbloc bombers), we’re ignoring ideal blops bombers, wormhole bombers, even solo bombers, so on and so forth. All of the following situations can be considered to be possible situations in your asset denial operation.

            September 18, 2013 at 10:02 pm
          14. Seraph IX Basarab

            Except Ezek I’ve flown these bombers quite a bit longer than you have and have cov ops as a specific specialty to how i play Eve. I’m not sure simply declaring something ineffective leaves anything but personal record as a point of argument. If you want to discuss specific points that’s probably a better way to go.

            It’s a bit like me telling you how to fly your Tornado doctrine.

            September 18, 2013 at 10:06 pm
          15. Jesus Loves You

            Well said Ezek.

            September 19, 2013 at 9:58 am
          16. lol

            If you put so much empathise on the bomb launcher, why do you have a point fitted? Also in ~small gangs~ wouldn’t allowing tackle fall onto the inties/recons allow you to fully optimize your fit without a point? Or am I not ~flying properly~ and should take of my training wheels?

            Or do you not expect pilots who fly these ships to be as competent as your bombers?

            September 19, 2013 at 12:05 am
          17. Seraph IX Basarab

            I have a point because I want the net to be as big as possible for catching targets. Although not a specialty of the bomber, I believe a point is important. Of course you prefer to use the interceptor and the Arazu to tackle. But there are times when you need everyone cloaked, or when the Arazu is too slow to lock on due to its cloak delay in order to gain point. The bomber is the ONLY ship so far that can decloak and point with no penalties and it is that advantage I want to use.

            September 19, 2013 at 12:12 am
          18. So stupid

            You don’t bomb, then align, then warp. First you position yourself so that the target is between you and your warp off, Then you align, then you decloak and bomb, and since your already aligned, you then warp instantaneously.

            September 21, 2013 at 2:17 am
          19. Jesus Loves You

            You could do that yes, but in most engagements that’s impossible or takes too long to line up so the fleet you are trying to bomb is gone.

            In other words, the bomber fit you use to mainly bomb and the one you use to torp only are quite different – although both have an MSE unless you’re a scrub.

            September 21, 2013 at 11:10 am
          20. Seraph IX Basarab

            Sure MSE if you don’t fit torps and launcher but then you’re kind of flying half a ship. Align time will save you over MSE more often than not.

            September 21, 2013 at 4:10 pm
          21. Seraph IX Basarab

            Thanks that’s how i’ve been doing it and ideally that’s how you do it. But in a 0.0 battle you can’t always do that, you don’t have the time. Sometimes all you have is the target and you need to rely on your mobility to warp off.

            September 21, 2013 at 3:59 pm
          22. Jesus Loves You

            He’s talking about the nonsense sense, which is pretty much what all his replies are.. heh.

            September 19, 2013 at 9:18 am
    2. lol

      Its what you haven’t played EVE in a long time.

      September 19, 2013 at 12:00 am Reply
  19. Sold

    There is nothing wrong with the MSE/MWD fit with damage rigs, especially on a solo fit where you will need to bust gate camps and need to do as much dps as possible as quickly as possible. It really doesn’t take much skill to click orbit, decloak, press F1, F2, Fx, and then click on the ratter.

    OP goes on about what is obviously a blob mentality in that one needs to be fast and have recon support. You don’t go fast with a 1MN AB. It just doesn’t cut it. You want fast with a bomber, you need either a 1MN MWD or 10MN AB. If you are fitting CPU mods, either you’re skills need work, or your fit needs work.

    You need at least 4 damps to get a large ship’s locking range down to less than your
    tackle range. You will never have enough damps to counter another fleet unless you are massively blobbing. Damps belong on an Arazu along-side a faction long point. Then all your bombers can shoot with impunity from 40km.

    A flight of Warrior IIs are a bomber pilot’s worst nightmare.

    No discussion about ASB?

    September 18, 2013 at 8:20 pm Reply
    1. INKer

      MSEs no! Not with 13% EM resist if u fit a DCU or none if u dont, unless u use rigs, I see the MSE as pretty pointless as alot of the time ppl use EM ammo if they have a choice, quite often RF EMP or Cal Navy Mjolnir for missiles. Therefore, the benefits of the MSE are wasted against these. Especially with the tracking changes, the mimatar T2 ammo requires a tracking comp or TE fit now more than ever.

      Personally, I’ve mostly done Null fleet bombing, so its agility all the way – either via Nanos or the rigs, cause if u get locked by any1 ur almost surely gonna die if they can project DPS that far. For torps, DPS doesnt matter so much cause theres usually enough of u to negate the fact u havent fitted BCUs etc. Often when structure grinding ppl want max DPS so it doesnt take so long though. :)

      For burning thru null/lo-sec I’ve seen ppl go with dual prop mod fits, mwd for burning thru bubbles, AB for combat, as some1 usually provides a nice warp where u can AB orbit and fire away. Again, I’m talking groups of prolly not less that 6-8, so theres enough damage to get the job done, with a decent cross range of dmg types.

      But, I do agree totally that a proper Bomber Fleet comp isnt 100% bombers. You really do need an inty and a webber to be fully effective for gang roaming. With the right fleet comp you can cause some serious mayhem.

      I understand and hated the old MSE mentality, we used to have to use that fit, but I generally refit and didnt mention it. :) They would bitch about it sometimes, but I often lived if the FC didnt balls it up. :) Escpecially as I generally flew the Purifier. Mostly out of habit nowadays though, as I’m more familar with it.

      September 18, 2013 at 10:14 pm Reply
      1. Jesus Loves You

        Its called an EM resist rig, its glorious.

        September 19, 2013 at 9:17 am Reply
        1. twat

          It’s called wasting more slots for a shitfit tank

          September 19, 2013 at 1:26 pm Reply
          1. Jesus Loves You

            Where did the MSE bomber touch you?

            September 19, 2013 at 5:14 pm
    2. Seraph IX Basarab

      I don’t fly solo bombers and don’t really consider hunting some scrub’s pve bs as pvp. OP goes on about what is a SMALL GANG mentality. And i know you dont go fast with a 1mn ab…top speed isnt important, transversal is. MWD blooms your sig too much, 10MN AB doesnt let you turn well.

      If you are fitting a blauncher you’ll need cpu/pg for those other mods. I have perfect fitting skill i know.

      4 damps? 4 bombers, no problem. Of course have arazu or any recon when you can.

      Good thing warrior IIs can’t point you…

      September 18, 2013 at 10:52 pm Reply
      1. the boy

        I love how youre blaming him for bis “Lol solo pvp hunting ratterz” and only give advice how to gank someone as fast and risk free as possible.

        September 19, 2013 at 12:04 pm Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          That’s how you best kill. As fast and risk free as possible. But I guess you’re a real man that flies solo in a battle badger since your nuts are obviously so big.

          Combat, video game or not is about having as many advantages as possible. You want fair? Go play sports.

          September 19, 2013 at 1:26 pm Reply
  20. Koz Katral

    The OP is not good at flying bombers.

    September 18, 2013 at 8:23 pm Reply
    1. hurp

      Great point…..NAWT

      September 18, 2013 at 9:02 pm Reply
      1. Jesus Loves You

        Its right on the mark actually.

        September 18, 2013 at 10:35 pm Reply
  21. scrub

    Burn it down, Seraph.

    September 18, 2013 at 8:48 pm Reply
  22. Jesus Loves You

    After seeing this lossmail by the OP I think we can conclude that he does know shit about bombers.

    http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=17235437

    September 18, 2013 at 9:56 pm Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      Was a specialized hard tackle fit that we needed since nobody else had brought proper tackle. It was for condor’s bar. Please more tears.

      September 18, 2013 at 9:58 pm Reply
      1. Jesus Loves You

        Sure, you have an explanation for everything don’t you.

        The fact remains you cry about using the right ship for the job several times – yet you fit a web and scram to a bomber, then proceeds to think you can teach others about fitting a bomber, Well, I’m here to tell you that you can’t. That your bomber fits suck ass and your reasons are even worse.

        Judging by the comments I would say more agree with me than you – so please, give me your tears (alternatively, please never EVER write a fitting guide for anything again, thank you).

        September 18, 2013 at 10:29 pm Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          dude i can’t swim please stop crying so much

          September 18, 2013 at 10:31 pm Reply
          1. Jesus Loves You

            I win it seems :-)

            September 18, 2013 at 10:33 pm
          2. BOB

            no you wine more

            September 20, 2013 at 4:51 pm
          3. Jesus Loves You

            Want cheese with that?

            September 21, 2013 at 11:07 am
          4. William

            Seraph IX Basarab mostly writes well costructed logical arguments in this post and all the trolls attached

            Jesus Loves You mostly rages and points and calls him a ass

            MMMMM? witch one is the better poster i wonder?

            September 20, 2013 at 4:54 pm
          5. Jesus Loves You

            Except he is wrong and refuses to even acknowlegde an MSE is an asset in most cases. So yes, I called him an ass because he just “logically” told everyone who took the time to read his shit how you should never fit a bomber.

            September 21, 2013 at 11:07 am
          6. Seraph IX Basarab

            If you have good enough align time to use your bomb launcher, you need mobility modules. If you don’t fit a bomb launcher, why not more torp DPS rather than shitty tank? Seriously trolling aside explain this to me.

            September 21, 2013 at 3:58 pm
      2. Hummmn?

        But…that is not the only loss mail you have with that exact same fit. How often is it that you need that specialized hard tackle loss mail?

        September 19, 2013 at 3:46 am Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          According to the lossmails, twice. You really going to gripe about 2 bombers now?

          September 19, 2013 at 4:24 am Reply
          1. Jesus Loves You

            In most of those cases I would say he got one shotted – good riddance.

            September 19, 2013 at 9:16 am
          2. Seraph IX Basarab

            Actually no. In those cases the MSE wouldn’t have saved me and I had already screwed up regardless of the fit.

            September 19, 2013 at 11:58 pm
          3. Seraph IX Basarab

            The manticores I fit were in low sec as you can see. Those don’t follow the optimized fit method I posted in the article because you can’t optimize a bomber’s bonuses in low sec. No bomb launcher. The nemesis however is for 0.0.

            So the claim was the manner in which i fit the manti with a scram web for our tackle group (since we had no proper tackle) and that number was twice. That’s how many.

            September 19, 2013 at 1:24 pm
          4. turdas

            You don’t fit bombers for “specialized hard tackle”, ever. You bring another ship.

            All tackle also fits a buffer tank of some sort. Why? To not get volleyed like you seem to always do in your no tank bombers. It doesn’t matter how much damage you can mitigate in the long term if in the short term you’re one-shot-killed.

            September 21, 2013 at 12:45 pm
          5. Seraph IX Basarab

            It was a couple low sec casual frig roams. I didn’t follow my own rules simply because we were in a rush. No biggie. And you contradict yourself. First you say you don’t specialize hard tackle bombers, and then you say i should have fit buffer tank. So which is it?

            September 21, 2013 at 3:57 pm
  23. on

    Too short’ didn’t read

    September 18, 2013 at 10:02 pm Reply
    1. Bal the Czar

      ^Too butthurt, didn’t care

      September 18, 2013 at 10:07 pm Reply
  24. INKer

    Serious question tho, as dont fly em that often outside of Null fleets. Now that we have more clones available. Are there any implants you would recommend for a SB clone? Lets say the clone is for roaming/blackops – not null-sec bombing runs in large fleet. Nothing above a 3% either.

    Chrz

    September 18, 2013 at 10:21 pm Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      Anything that helps with mobility, missile speed or explosion velocity.

      September 18, 2013 at 10:33 pm Reply
    2. Snorkle25

      My SB BLOP clone:

      TD-603, +3 Torp Damage
      MP-703, +3 missile velocity
      GP-803, +3 explosion velocity
      TN-903, -3 explosion radius
      RL-1003, +3 Rate of fire

      Of these the slot 6,8 & 9 are the most crucial, if your low on isk drop the slot 7&10, don’t bother downgrading.

      September 20, 2013 at 7:42 pm Reply
  25. GrouchyOldGamer

    I like fitting articles even when I don’t agree with them. It’s nice to see another perceptive.

    September 18, 2013 at 10:47 pm Reply
    1. Jesus Loves You

      Not when the perspective is this bad. Nemesis best bomber, give me a break.

      September 19, 2013 at 9:14 am Reply
      1. afghana banana

        lol can u read he pretty much said there is no best bomber

        September 19, 2013 at 1:22 pm Reply
        1. Jesus Loves You

          Yeah,he bitched and moaned about all the others (except nemesis, because lol noobs, get skilled to fit it), then in the end said there is no best bomber… so he pretty much said nothing (which is a good summary of the OP tbh).

          September 19, 2013 at 5:13 pm Reply
          1. shepherd

            he outlined pros and cons for each bomber actually if you bother to read and not be a trolling spaz

            September 19, 2013 at 8:57 pm
          2. Jesus Loves You

            Except he was wrong on almost all accounts, so meh.

            September 21, 2013 at 11:05 am
          3. amy

            BUTTHURT DETECTED! BUTTHURT DETECTED!

            September 21, 2013 at 3:54 pm
        2. Nemesis suck

          There may be no ‘best’ bomber but there is a worst bomber and its the nemesis, hands down, by a HUGE margin.

          September 19, 2013 at 10:39 pm Reply
  26. afkcloakersarenice

    thats a shit fit.

    September 19, 2013 at 12:03 am Reply
  27. Hi there

    I disagree with zero tank bombers, but whatever. Bomber fits is something we as a community will never agree on.

    September 19, 2013 at 12:06 am Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      Tanky bombers are an illusion. Tanking bombers its like dual tanking conventional ships. I bet my shield + plated drake will tank more than your non armor fit drake, but do we actually fit that sort of ship? Hell no. “BUT MORE EHP” isn’t a good argument for the drake and it isnt a good argument for the bomber.

      September 19, 2013 at 12:14 am Reply
      1. Hi there

        lol…. Nice strawman

        But like I said the community will never agree on a fit, not like how we all pretty much agree on a Zealot, or Vega fit. Not sure why you are even trying to argue, you will never convice me that tankless bombers are good even if I was dumb enough to not see a strawman for what it is.

        September 19, 2013 at 12:25 am Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          Well do you plan on using a bomb launcher?

          September 19, 2013 at 12:27 am Reply
      2. Jesus Loves You

        Unless you kill your prey in one shot, bombers that can tank for a little bit (which they can do with an MSE!) is the way to go. Oh wait, forgot you can’t do anything unless you blot out the sun with bombers.

        Crybaby lol.

        September 19, 2013 at 9:14 am Reply
  28. MASSADEATH

    Looked at your kill board, we kill more with bombers in a month than you do in a year…that being said..after HUNDREDS of bomber enagements….
    AB with BUFFER tank has always been the best… WHY you say…. because you already have overwelming DPS…you need to be able to survive the small ships…and that means you need TIME. Not the ability to run away…once you are pointed in a bomber you either are gonna be dead or gonna kill the frigate…
    All other ships other than frigates are gonna MELT..1 shot usually….you have to be able to tank and survive the small ships..while you pound them out and hold them down with force recon…
    plus camping jump bridges you need to be able to take at least 1 shot in a bomber and survive counter bombings…
    In our fleets experience this means BUFFER and AB fitted ships

    September 19, 2013 at 12:34 am Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      Who is “we?” Who are you? Notice that character’s KB hasn’t been active in quite a while?

      You need the ability to engage and disengage at will. Not time. Small ships are easily dealt with. Small ships are easily jammed by recons or damped by bombers/recons. Nevermind that a rapier would have a field day with any frig in its web range. Again capitalize on your strengths, mobility and dps. No point buffering a paper bag

      September 19, 2013 at 12:41 am Reply
      1. Jesus Loves You

        Again with the blob mentality – good riddance.

        Your tears against people telling you how to fit a bomber is hilarious – fitting an MSE is the only correct thing to do, now get over it and stop crying.

        September 19, 2013 at 9:12 am Reply
        1. BUDDHA LOVES YOU MOAR FAGET

          CONFIRMING 6 BOMBERS IS A BLOB

          September 19, 2013 at 1:21 pm Reply
          1. Jesus Loves You

            So finally stopped using your own name eh? Oh the tears.

            September 19, 2013 at 5:10 pm
      2. MASSADEATH

        I am exactly who my name says……you had 5 kills in June with your bomber…and I had 409. Just saying experience wise I have found that buffered bombers are superior in most cases

        September 20, 2013 at 12:42 am Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          I deactivated the character in June and you armor tank your bombers…so….not relevant to this article since i focus on bomb launcher fit bombers.

          September 20, 2013 at 12:56 am Reply
          1. MASSADEATH

            Firstly you need 2 bombers… 1 fit for blops that is buffer and torps only, 2 and one for bombing that is buffer with bomb launcher and torps,
            so it is relevant
            I do agree however that the extra midslots on the nemesis are great to have EWAR to the field

            September 20, 2013 at 4:08 am
          2. Seraph IX Basarab

            How are you going to buffer and keep your align time high? It’s impossible

            September 20, 2013 at 5:55 pm
          3. MASSADEATH

            Before ANY bomb run you are already prealigned to get out..

            and during any blops…you are keeping transversal up…and aligning out…not trying to run away..

            THESE ARE ATTACK SHIPS…not some sort of running away interceptors!!!!

            September 23, 2013 at 3:02 pm
          4. Seraph IX Basarab

            And being prealigned is an ideal scenario that more often than not you won’t get in real 0.0 combat. So your choice now is do you want to have superior align speed, or sacrifice that for a crap tank.

            DPS (torps and bombs), align time, (crappy) tank…pick 2 of those.

            September 24, 2013 at 12:09 am
          5. MASSADEATH

            I will take the buffer tank….

            AND 100% YES before any bombing run you will have an align out point….your not going to just warp willy nilly into a fleet and expect to bomb it and get out

            again..I think I have hundreds more kill experience than you do with bombers….just saying..post up your kill board link..lets see who has more bomber experience…since you said the toon you wrote the article on is not your main toon…

            here is mine http://moa.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=3542&m=6&y=2013

            September 28, 2013 at 2:35 am
    2. INKer

      I do agree generally on buffer. I run a 200mm plate on my Malediction, against what most ppl recomend, but its saved my ass so many times when I’ve jumped thru a gate into a hostile fleet/gate camp. Its allowed me to reapproach gate without being popped, or given me that little extra time to get the lay of the land to report back to the FC – sometimes requiring me to sacrifice myself cause its bubbled and cant warp off or to orbit gate (transversal) while I d-scan, count/check ship types to give FC decent report. The plate means I’m getting him a better report and often can actually survive.

      However, you need to have the supporting resists. This is why MSE with practically no EM resist comes down to luck that the main DPS against u isnt EM otherwise ur toast.

      But fleet bombers bombing at range need agility for quick warp outs, not buffer. Any other circumstance you have to be more specific about it and this is where you will get the disagreements. I dont thinks its going to be many bombs to get thru the MSE anyways, even if they arent EM dmg based.

      Even when I was a low skilled noob I was able to alpha bombers in my double sebo 720 arty cane, TE’d up. Havent done this in a while cause FCs generally prefer another regular fleet ship in the fleet, cause competent bombers will escape. If ur the defender you can prolly just as easy reship in no time. Bombers arent that expensive.

      September 19, 2013 at 2:45 am Reply
      1. Jesus Loves You

        Just fit one EM resist rig and be done with it.

        September 19, 2013 at 9:11 am Reply
  29. rothmal

    good article I remember the good old days when we had 6-9 fleets and temp would get excited about having 13 people in the bombers bar channel.I still fly non-mse bombers during gate camps.reflexes will beat mse 95% of the time if stay per-aligned and watch your overview and warp when someone is targeting you or see bombs on the grid you will get out most of the time i know because i’ve been flying bombers and recons for the past 3 years and i think i only lost mybe 17 or 19 bombers so far. that said when i do black ops i put on a mse because you might not have time to align or you might be orbiting or target.

    September 19, 2013 at 1:18 am Reply
  30. real deal

    I like to fit my stealth bomber in your ass.

    September 19, 2013 at 7:03 am Reply
  31. some german guy

    Do you know why you can fit ships in this game.
    To try something new and bring variety.
    If everyone would fit their stuff the same
    It’d be boring as fuck
    Nice read up for newbies though that dont know how to ‘properly’ do it at all
    but there is so ultimate or “right” fit in eve.

    September 19, 2013 at 8:18 am Reply
    1. DNSMax

      Do you know why you can fit ships in this game
      To try something new and bring variety
      If everyone fit their stuff the same
      It’d be boring as sobriety
      Nice read up for those whose fittings are lame
      But there is no ultimate fit in this society

      Hmmmm, needs more work…

      September 19, 2013 at 11:51 am Reply
      1. Seraph IX Basarab

        No such thing as an ultimate fit. The fits I posted are for maximizing the bomber’s natural strengths.

        September 19, 2013 at 1:20 pm Reply
        1. DNSMax

          Seraph, I only made a poem from some german guys post, JESUS, LIGHTEN UP WILL YA!

          September 19, 2013 at 1:37 pm Reply
          1. Seraph IX Basarab

            oh geez just noticed. That’s awesome. You win my article discussion section.

            September 19, 2013 at 1:38 pm
          2. some german guy

            needs more rhymes.

            September 19, 2013 at 2:08 pm
  32. the boy

    Just generic article containing shitfits which couldve been pasted out of the TEST wiki.
    I honestly expected some interesting stuff, but you obviously dont have any idea what youre talking about. Your e-war Bombers wont work anywhere except recon supported gankbrigades and BO drops on ratting Carriers. Next time try to write something interesting, like about the new Rocketbomber meta in fw ls.

    September 19, 2013 at 12:15 pm Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      Great point. With this level of intelligence in your post I can only fathom what level of competence you would bring to the game in your bomber.

      September 19, 2013 at 1:19 pm Reply
    2. Ezek Price

      Rocketbombers arent new.

      September 19, 2013 at 4:25 pm Reply
    3. Jesus Loves You

      Rocketbombers / bombers fit with shit other than torps is not a new thing in FW – I killed mission runners with them for a while some years back 😀

      September 19, 2013 at 5:06 pm Reply
  33. Swift

    I liked the article. Obviously everyone has to find the best fit according to their skills, fleet comp, and play style. I think Seraph made that point several times. I’ll have to look into the Bomber Bar, as I’ve been interested in getting some nice bomber gangs together to go gate camp bashing.

    September 19, 2013 at 8:10 pm Reply
  34. .-.

    Fit an mse. Torps or bombs, not both. Fit accordingly.

    September 21, 2013 at 12:15 pm Reply
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