Poetic Stanziel announced his quitting from EVE Of course it can be a troll/satire as several of his previous posts like this. His stated reason is interesting however, regardless of his future in the game: “In the last year though, CCP Games has been “trammelizing” EVE. Making it much safer, spending development resources to protect idiots. I want a game where players have to protect themselves. A game that forces players to play smart. A game where players cannot rely on the developer to protect them from their own laziness and ignorance. But CCP has seen fit to create many mechanics that do the job players should be doing for themselves.” Then he mentions the lack of Hulkageddon (clearly attributed to the mining barge changes) and the change of Terms of Service that ban certain way of scamming by misidentifying yourself as someone’s alt.

I’ve ganked 52B in a month long after the mining barge rebalance, so can prove first hand that miner ganking isn’t dead. Hulkageddon is, and for good. Hulkageddon wasn’t what Poetic believes, a piece of emergent gameplay where the strong preyed on the weak. It was about starting a 51 days free account, after 3-4 days of training getting into a T1 fit Catalyst, jumping from belt to belt with the catalyst, approaching and ganking anyone who dares to mine. After the pilot got to -5 sec status, repeat with another pilot in the account. After all 3 got to red, just let the account lapse. Remember, biomassing -5 characters is bannable but letting your account lapse is not.

Before the mining barge rebalance it was practically impossible to tank any mining ship to resist a T1 fit newbie ship with a newbie pilot. The only choice miners had for mining below 0.9 was the Rokh. In that sense the mining barges were clearly unbalanced as they were completely outperformed by another ship class in their main role. Imagine if Rokh would be faster and lock faster than an interceptor. Wouldn’t that warrant an interceptor (or Rokh) rebalance?

Hulkageddon was an event where the dumb and incompetent was preying on everyone due to a broken mechanic. On the side of the ganker there was no risk, effort, skillpoint or player skill requirement. The mining barge rebalance changed ganking into what it should be: an act where the strong preys on the weak. Today the miners have all the tools to defend themselves, yet many fail because they are dumb. However a 3 days old pilot in a T1 catalyst can’t – and shouldn’t – gank even a very dumb miner.

To gank now, I’m running 3 accounts directly involved in ganking (the fourth is a thief which can be omitted if you don’t care about loot). The better skilled ganker has 15M SP, granted only 10M affects the Catalyst, the rest is his training for Talos. The less skilled ganker has 6M. Both of these figures makes throwaway alts unusable, forcing me to deal with negative sec status, using scout and proper warpins. Also allows anyone ready to fight back to shoot me at any time, not just when actively ganking (still, idiots trade kill rights and wardec). If I arrive too far, no gank. If someone catches me on the undock or a gate, no gank, if the miner isn’t flying a tankless barge, no solo gank. If I make a mistake, I’m losing a 10M T2 fit Catalyst, if I make a bigger mistake, I also lose a 60M implants. I still gank miners because they are dumb.

What Poetic and most of the “PvPers” want is not “the strong preys on the weak”, because it can easily show that they are the weak. They want an “I prey on anyone I wish”: a broken game. Of course the game was playable before the barge rebalance because most people choose not to gank – for moral reasons. In this environment if you declared yourself a badass, you became one as the broken mechanic allowed you to kill anyone in sight. Now, after the balance, the chance to gank is still there, but not for everyone, which makes the “for fun people” mad. Yes, you can’t defeat people casually anymore – and you shouldn’t be able to.

Success should depend on effort and knowledge and not wishes. Before the rebalances, EVE was giving out “welfare killmails” for incompetent badass-wannabes. It was changed into what he demands: “A game that forces players to play smart. A game where players cannot rely on the developer to protect them from their own laziness and ignorance.”. Previously he could farm kills despite his laziness and ignorance. Now that this welfare was taken from him, he cries and ragequits.

I’d rather suggest him to learn to play and get the kills even when they aren’t trivial anymore. Hint: join the New Order, they take players new to ganking and train them.

The same is true for the TOS change which simply banned an annoying option of claiming you to be someone else. “Being an alt” is an out-of-game thing, in the game you just interact with pilots without any way to see the player behind it. To verify the identity of another player you need out-of-game methods, which is immersion-breaking, bad game design. Scamming, spying and counter-spying should be performed in-game and not by defacing Wikis or stealing IP addresses from teamspeak servers.

- Gevlon Goblin

His EVE journey show a very interesting “outside the box” approach to the game, PVE and the trade hubs, reason for which we invite you to pay a visit to his blog.

94 Comments

  1. bigcountry

    OMG , if you had simply posted the last paragraph and skipped the rest of that other nonsense I would have finally found something you have released to be more then just moronic ramblings… but even still you ruined that ..

    September 17, 2013 at 4:37 pm Reply
    1. I just do not know

      That last paragraph sits so well with me, there are a number of things in this game I do not bother trying due to the ease of meta gaming. He is right it is in fact game breaking!

      September 17, 2013 at 4:57 pm Reply
      1. immersionmyass

        “To verify the identity of another player you need out-of-game methods, which is immersion-breaking, bad game design”
        This isn’t really true. If you want to discover if a character is an alt of another, all you do is message the other and wait for a reply. No out of game tools required.
        The only immersion breaking aspect is allowing multiple toons in the first place. How can one claim immersion when they play 3 alts on 3 accounts simultaneously?

        September 17, 2013 at 5:59 pm Reply
        1. I just do not know

          He is talking about having multiple accounts, there is no in game way to assess that. I like having 2 accounts, but I play them together as a team, I would be quite happy to have something that flags the second account as linked to the first, that should be easy for CCP to do?

          September 18, 2013 at 7:04 am Reply
  2. yoghi

    DON’t read this its filled with “by the way i’m great”

    September 17, 2013 at 4:39 pm Reply
  3. freudo

    More shit from the king of shitlords.

    September 17, 2013 at 4:40 pm Reply
  4. monkeypuppett

    Can someone please stop this dude from writing. Put KGB behind his couch. Something…..anything..a rabid babboon maybe?

    September 17, 2013 at 4:45 pm Reply
  5. I just do not know

    This is perhaps his best article yet, there are many of us who laughed at just how easy it was to gank, now there is real skill required and it is funny listening to the gank bears whine, in one thread some guy says that ganks are way down, well yes, before casual stupid gankers could do it with their eyes closed. Eve is supposed to be a challenge, the mining barges before were not, now they are, so HTFU low skilled and casual gankers which is what you kept on saying to miners, again and again and again, shows how hollow your words are.

    September 17, 2013 at 4:56 pm Reply
    1. Ur Stupid

      They still aren’t hard to gank unless you’re onabout the skiff/proc.

      September 18, 2013 at 12:40 am Reply
      1. I just do not know

        A Hulk is easy even if tanked, a Covetor is a flying coffin, a Mackinaw can be tanked quite well but is still vulnerable to skilled and focussed gankers, a Retreiver is of course weaken than a Mackinaw, but the Skiff is very difficult to gank as is the Procurer, but what it does is give real options. Most of the time I mine in Skiff’s, sometimes in Mac’s and my Hulks are gathering dust..
        So as such I am really talking about a tanked Mac, that ship is what people use to mine ore in belts in HS, without a tank it blows up easily, with a tank its a challenge.

        September 18, 2013 at 6:59 am Reply
  6. uhgnotmore

    Ganking miners in highsec, regardless of how difficult you find it due to barge changes, is still for those who would rather not have an opponent prepared to shoot back at them. That is why it is not considered a mark of PvP greatness to gank miners, and never will be. If you want to get any respect, you need to shoot at people who are prepared to shoot back, who train for it, who learn pvp and fly PvP ships. There are places for this in lowsec. Open your map sometime. Mackinaw is not a PvP ship. It’s a mining barge.
    Nobody cares that you have 52bln in miner ganks in highsec. They don’t shoot back. You call miners dumb for not preparing for your ganking. We call you dumb for doing dumb things and then being mad nobody gives you any credit.
    Well, you don’t deserve it.

    September 17, 2013 at 4:59 pm Reply
    1. Welcome to Black Rise

      He should go out to low-sec. Visit some lovely FW and Real PvP gankers. He would not last.

      September 18, 2013 at 6:36 am Reply
      1. dude

        Maybe he would have fun learning PvP? I mean, that is what eve is really about anyways.

        September 18, 2013 at 11:01 am Reply
  7. Dirk MacGirk

    He’s improving. Decent logic but still to many instances of “look what I did.”

    Overall nothing too terribad here. Poetic’s reaction was overdone and did need to be called out on it.

    September 17, 2013 at 5:23 pm Reply
    1. hider

      Did you play UO when they added Trammel? Do you even know what this is?
      It killed the game for most of the original players. Trammel was horrible. It ruined the whole atmosphere of the game. Then they introduced item insurance, and that killed it even more.
      Although I disagree with Poetic’s analysis that this is happening in EvE. For that to happen, highsec would have to become a non-gank zone, and would have to allow to insure cargos against ganks in all places.
      And that isn’t going to happen. Or if it did, my god, I think everyone would quit eve. At least I would. And I don’t even gank. The fun for me is avoiding that gank!

      September 17, 2013 at 5:52 pm Reply
      1. Dirk MacGirk

        Don’t take my half-hearted defense of Goblin as more than half-hearted. I think he’s right about the ease with which dudes could gank miners and how those gankers thought they were hot shit yet whined when barges got buffed.

        As for Poetic, whatever. He wasn’t right, we wasn’t wrong. But quitting was very Arydanika. Just overblown.

        September 17, 2013 at 6:26 pm Reply
        1. thelies

          It’s just really hypocritical for any guy who ganks miners in highsec to claim any sort of skill at eve. It never required any skill, and still doesn’t. Ganker tears are best tears.

          From “The war for Finanar”: However I left Finanar just like the other systems: nothing mines but Procurers, Skiffs, DCII-Retrievers and those annoying tanked Macks that could be profitably ganked by 3 Catalysts but I don’t have 3 Catas and won’t triple-box.
          So now he says he has a third ganker account because these miners are too hard to kill with 2.

          Yeah that’s skill right there man. Nobody will join his stupid corp, so now he has to go back on what he said only a few weeks ago (“I wont triple box”) to keep his ganking going.
          It just shows you that he doesn’t deserve even a half-assed defense.

          September 17, 2013 at 7:52 pm Reply
          1. Dirk MacGirk

            Shit dude, I don’t give him credit for ganking miners. I don’t give any fag credit for that. Although he has tried to show those same people how to not be ganked, so to him its a big experiment. My credit was given to him in calling out Poetic for crying about CCP making the game too easy by changing the TOS on impersonation/scamming and for comments he made about hisec ganking, when CCP made ganking more difficult for those seeking to shoot unarmed ships. Made is easier for the miners I guess, but made it harder for the guys with guns. He just called out the guy who already had the upper hand crying about his upper hand being nerfed a little.

            Look, I’m no fan of most of what Goblin says because it is too focused on himself. But it doesn’t mean I can’t agree when he gets certain points correct. That’s what differentiates me from just a hater.

            September 17, 2013 at 11:51 pm
          2. smeeagainagain

            Oh… sorry I misunderstood. Yeah I totally agree with you.

            September 18, 2013 at 11:00 am
    2. sadleric

      The ending paragraph on “Being an alt is an out-of-game thing” really has me rethinking my position on the TOS changes. He’s right about the fact that subsuming alt relationships does reach beyond the game proper, and last I checked Eve isn’t real.

      September 18, 2013 at 12:09 am Reply
      1. I just do not know

        This was an excellent post

        September 18, 2013 at 11:06 am Reply
        1. I just do not know

          The comments about James315’s article is spot on, he is taking the absurd, saying that is the case and attacking it.

          September 18, 2013 at 11:10 am Reply
  8. LOL.

    wait, did he just manage to claim other guys pvp by fighting people with low risk are are losers, while he when he is ganking miners risk free in highsec is a winner?

    September 17, 2013 at 5:34 pm Reply
    1. asdf

      Yeah, he says quite clearly that before barge rebalance, ganking miners was for weak players. Now to be a miner ganker, you are a strong EvE player because those shields are so tough.
      Hehe.

      September 17, 2013 at 5:42 pm Reply
  9. CMIV

    I admit to not having read that many Goblin pieces. Mainly because those I have read were shockingly bad in almost every aspect. But this one… this is actually pretty bang on it.

    Should I be worried that I’m actually in agreement with GG?

    September 17, 2013 at 5:49 pm Reply
    1. notspock

      Yes because his argument is illogical. Please re-read it.

      September 17, 2013 at 6:10 pm Reply
      1. CMIV

        All of it or just a certain part? Please expand on your accusation.

        September 17, 2013 at 6:21 pm Reply
        1. expanding

          His main argument is that he is the king of PvP because ganking miners in highsec now requires high skills and careful planning, and that this validates the behavior as good PvP versus old ganking of miners which was invalid because anyone could do it with a trial alt, and thus was bad PvP. His secondary argument is that Poetic is a bitch because he is quitting. I kinda agree with his secondary argument, but not his main argument, and think his secondary argument is just… small. CanIHazYourStuffs would have been a more cogent response. And poetic isn’t ragequitting. He is just being a crybaby.

          GG’s premises in support of his main argument are just wrong. It didn’t take a rokh to mine safely before the barge changes. The #1 way to mine safely then, and now, is situational awareness. Align on station and dock when the gankers come, and you are safe. And a well written bot can do that. But the bottom line is that any attempt to justify ganking a mining barge in highsec as highskill PvP is ridiculous. They don’t shoot back. They don’t plan to ambush you. They dont infiltrate your corp with spies and try to awox you. And they don’t often even care that you blow them up, since they make enough to cover the loss: CODB. Its just dumb gameplay, like sniping guys at a respawn point in COD. Yeah you gather some stats, and maybe some 13 year old dumbasses will be impressed with your K:D ratio, but ultimately nobody wants to play with you.
          And that is GG’s problem. He thinks the whole game is about how many miners he can gank in highsec, and that somehow everyone except him is an idiot for not recognizing the awesomeness that is GG. Miners are idiots, pvp’ers who ganked before the barge changes were idiots. The only non-idiot is himself, because, look at his 52bln isk in kills. Impressive isn’t it?
          Real PvPer aren’t impressed by this. Miners aren’t impressed by this. Who’s left? I guess the WoW crowd, or the 13 year old who likes to camp respawn points for easy headshots.

          September 17, 2013 at 7:22 pm Reply
          1. CMIV

            I think you may be dwelling too much on his many past articles that are drenched in exactly the tone that you speak of. i.e. I’m the best because I gank miners all day, look at my KB blah blah blah. All utter crap obviously. This piece is better though as he has reduced that bullshit (yeah I know there’s still a bit though) and has made some valid points.

            If you forget about GG’s writing / bragging history and take this piece on it’s own merits, I think you’ll clearly see his main point isn’t that he is “king of PvP”. He has, albeit ham-fistedly, made a valid point that counters the likes of James315 / Poetic etc. who are massive fans of the super easy, brainless type of “PvP” that was suicide ganking a few years ago.

            GG’s primary point comes through clear to me: Making ganking more difficult is not turning the game into a themepark – it is surely making the game more difficult and challenging, requiring more thought, risk, dedication, skill etc. in order to suicide gank a miner in high-sec.

            So whilst the majority of his previous pieces may be “I’m king of PvP coz I gank miners all day”, this one is far better and his real point isn’t drowned out by self aggrandizing nonsense.

            What concerns me is that I agree with the essence of what GG is saying here. i.e. Make PvP (even suicide ganking!) challenging and risky. Move away from the desires of James315, Poetic, FunkyBacon et al who want to make EvE’s PvP into the spaceship version of a firing squad where the target has zero chance of escape or retaliation.

            Agreeing with the principle of a GG article is a first for me and I remain concerned that I’m turning into some sort of soft PvPer, like him.

            Having said that, I’ll still stick to low-sec PvP for now as high-sec ganking is still boring and still lacks sufficient challenge, skill or risk to keep me entertained.

            September 17, 2013 at 9:23 pm
          2. smeeagain

            If that is how you read this article, I wont argue with you, though my read is still the same as previous articles. All self congratulatory for ganking highsec miners who are dumb enough to fly a ship designed for… mining.

            The only reason that CCP even bothered to enhance defenses on barges was because of hulkageddon pissing off the carebears, who supply the $$ to Iceland’s tiny economy, and yes we can thank that dude who got started it (die in a fire guy) and mittens for encouraging it for stronger barge defenses. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, especially when that wheel is the subscription paying highsec carebear. Try else to explain Captains Quarters. I can’t think of 1 nullbear who asked for that shit.

            But the problem with dumbing down Eve isn’t just about ships… its agents now dumbed down, grav sites are no longer hidden belts, identity based scamming being curtailed (even though this used to be legal, as Poetic is absolutely correct about). I get poetic’s concerns with what happened to UO, but these changes are minor in comparison.

            You say ” I’ll still stick to low-sec PvP for now as high-sec ganking is still boring and still lacks sufficient challenge, skill or risk to keep me entertained.”
            You don’t mention any reward here… because you want good fights. Not trumped up KB stats. Good on you. That’s real pvp.

            September 17, 2013 at 10:11 pm
          3. woops

            Where in the article does it say he is King of pvp?

            The argument that being able to train trial accounts, without paying, and throwaway the accounts after ganking is valid.

            You “kinda” agree with the argument on attacking another’s, poe’s, character as valid, speaks of needing a basic college class on logic and fallacy.

            September 21, 2013 at 3:50 am
    2. sadleric

      He lacks social intelligence, but damn does he have the capacity to filter out noise and break a problem down to elemental components.

      September 18, 2013 at 1:39 am Reply
  10. No seriously

    Greedy Goblin for CSM?

    September 17, 2013 at 6:03 pm Reply
    1. thoughtyournamewasnotseriously

      GG puts out a hatchet piece raging on Poetic and you think this is CSM material?

      September 17, 2013 at 6:09 pm Reply
      1. CSM full of pride

        Lets take a look at past and present CSM.

        Yes, practically anything will go for CSM. No morals? Your fit for the job! Do not want to actually make a contribution? Your fit for the job! You only want a free trip to Iceland? Your fit for the job!

        I would vote for pedobear for CSM. I would vote my dead dog for CSM! Heck, if some random wore a clown suit and ran for CSM, I would vote for him too.

        Most of the candidates all look the same.

        September 21, 2013 at 3:44 am Reply
    2. sadleric

      He has a *long* way to go before that becomes a good idea.

      September 18, 2013 at 1:43 am Reply
  11. nigger jim

    you know… you need to back to nulsec where you got your ass beat twenty times a day and all your shitty articles weren’t about how much better than everybody you are.

    September 17, 2013 at 6:43 pm Reply
    1. Dirk MacGirk

      The donations ran out. Greedy had to find a new path. Lol

      September 17, 2013 at 6:50 pm Reply
  12. Kinis Deren

    Gevlon, you missed two points regarding the the mining barge buff: Firstly, dessies had been buffed in Inferno (iirc) and the mining barge rebalance dev blog made specific reference to this fact as one of the reasons for the rebalance. Secondly, there was also a very strong econimic driver for Hulkageddon which no longer exists, following the Odyssey tech nerf and R64 rebalance.

    I believe ganking should and shall remain part of the game. However, ganking should always require perpetrator piloting skill and not be a foregone conclusion despite whatever precautions the intended victim may take.

    September 17, 2013 at 7:17 pm Reply
  13. buziel

    The codex of l33t hs pvp’er
    1. Always fight in high sec.
    2. Shoot only ships than don’t shoot back. otherwise it’s dangerous.
    3. always scan the target, and make sure it has no cmbat drones or other pvp module ..
    4. Always keep you kb up to date to show those l33t pvp kills …
    5. DON’T attack industrial some of them have guns now. watch out.
    6. Don’t do missions higher than lvl 1 yo can die there…rly..
    7. Do only curier missions it’s safe and good money …
    8. Don’t go never ever to lowsec, null someone can kill you there it’s f… dangerous …
    9. The to write as many forum en24 post that show how l33t you are…

    September 17, 2013 at 7:53 pm Reply
  14. No more GG shitposts

    Grev seriously, what do you need to just stop writting this garbage? Isk, cash, name it. Your filth isn’t tolerable or even intelligent.

    September 17, 2013 at 8:21 pm Reply
    1. tsk tsk

      Well, for one, you could stop reading the posts.

      Imagine that, old sport! Being proactive and taking the initiative upon yourself!

      You criticize the posts, old sport, based on intelligence, yet you fail to use your own intelligence and click on the post.

      September 21, 2013 at 3:38 am Reply
  15. It's a me, mario

    In year or so i’ve been playing EVE there is a constant stream of ‘eve is getting soft’ and other ‘golden age’ bull shit. There will always be haters like ‘poetic’, saying that ‘eve is dead’. Good riddance, they will not be missed.

    September 17, 2013 at 8:24 pm Reply
  16. Spyder John

    Great post !!

    September 17, 2013 at 8:33 pm Reply
  17. Green

    Look this game use to be filled with intelligent motivated people I need that bell curve jpg to describe it but back then to get anywhere in the game took effort and a challenge. Now the game is like every other and people do not really have to think anymore to get things done. And CCPs sad attempt to make the game more balanced usually entails ingame things becoming more expensive whic is just lining CCP with more money in their pockets with people plexing to afford basic battlecruisers. Why do you think we’re a big blue donut in null. This game is going to be done soon on to the next one.

    September 17, 2013 at 8:40 pm Reply
    1. ForeverNoob

      EVE is DEAD!!!!

      Seriously? Dumb players? I have 2007 players in my corp that cant figure out how to manage a pos or mine moon goo. Old players that don’t understand grid mechanics or how to set a drag bubble. Market idiocy is rampant and plenty of smart isk scams.

      Theres plenty to do in this game. Not done by a long shot.

      September 18, 2013 at 5:03 am Reply
  18. Meh

    you nailed (atleast from me) in the last couple of para”s , well said

    September 17, 2013 at 9:19 pm Reply
  19. pleasantly surprised

    Usually, i want to gag when reading a GG piece. For once, aside from the “i am a leet PvPer” rah rah, this is spot on. Would that Poe could display decent logic. Maybe them I could feel anything other than relief at his leaving EVE.

    GG, of you keep up analysis like this, i may yet stop $hit talking you.

    September 17, 2013 at 10:25 pm Reply
  20. Cloora

    Gevlon has now made TWO decent articles. Congrats chap.

    September 17, 2013 at 11:06 pm Reply
    1. GG sucks Noob cock

      This was FAR from a decent article. There were TONS of illogical or circular arguments, not to mention flat out contradictions. And the ‘facts’ that he states are in general, but this article in particulate, WRONG.

      September 18, 2013 at 6:14 am Reply
      1. poster above me is a genius

        10/10 for pointing out that there is something wrong and not detailing all the ‘facts’.

        What can we determine with these facts?

        1. You graduated high school in the States.
        2. You most likely graduated college in the States.
        3. Alas, you still work at fast food joint.

        Sorry, old sport! Your troll post baited me in– hook, line, and sinker!

        September 21, 2013 at 3:33 am Reply
  21. stefan

    If in real life, people were sitting along the highway with Stinger missiles shooting at all cars that pass by, dont you think that car manufacturing companies would start making their cars missile-proof? From a roleplaying point of view, shipbuilders like ORE have just adapted their ships specifications in answer to gankers.

    September 17, 2013 at 11:11 pm Reply
    1. Takezo Kensei

      idiot, why would a surface to air missile like a stinger home in on a ground vehicle?

      September 17, 2013 at 11:38 pm Reply
      1. sadleric

        Bad example, but this justification has been used for prior patches — alchemy workaround for platinum technide probably being the most infamous.

        September 18, 2013 at 1:42 am Reply
      2. Budnacho

        Could be a Pinto….the default setting for those was on fire…..

        September 18, 2013 at 2:32 pm Reply
      3. Ur Stupid

        Tanks. ’nuff said.

        September 20, 2013 at 10:30 am Reply
        1. Ur Stupid

          Because tanks can fly.

          September 20, 2013 at 10:30 am Reply
  22. tara read

    “I’ve ganked 52B in a month long after the mining barge rebalance, so can prove first hand that miner ganking isn’t dead. Hulkageddon is, and for good”

    “Hulkageddon was an event where the dumb and incompetent was preying on everyone due to a broken mechanic”

    So… by proxy you are calling Hellicity Boson and everyone who participated in every Hulkageddon dumb and incompetent. Let that sink in for a moment folks. Gelvon TEST Alliance Goblin is calling people who organize content dumb and incompetent.

    Here’s a pro tip sport. NO ONE gives a flying fuck how many miners you’ve ganked, no one cares the size of your wallet (although we hilariously chuckle at how much money you gave to a failing Alliance banished to Curse to die), no one thinks your ideas are “innovative” or “outside the box” in the slightest.

    Instead all you do is say “LOOK at how much shit I’ve killed! Me me me!! The game isn’t broken! Things don’t need to be fixed! Because I did something everything is fine you all suck!” Riv seriously. FInd someone else to link articles to.

    Cause everyone at The Mittani is probably pissing themselves laughing if this is the best EN24 can come up with…

    September 18, 2013 at 12:18 am Reply
    1. I just do not know

      He is proving that you can still gank with the buffed mining ships, because there are many people out there who do it properly, Goblin for one and members of the New Order, they prey on the stupid which is as it should be. Funny enough you are the person who pointed out that the numbers of ganks had gone down in a thread on the Eve forums, as if it proved that it was too hard, all it proved to me was that it was too damn easy before the buff to mining ships, now you have to work at it, which is the point Goblin is making.
      And you are taking his words out of content, Helicity Boson created a fun event, but it was stupidly easy to kill mining ships so that anyone could do it, he never called Helicity Boson stupid.
      The buff to the mining barges made it about right in my view, so HTFU

      September 18, 2013 at 6:52 am Reply
      1. tara read

        Again: “Hulkageddon was an event where the dumb and incompetent was preying on everyone due to a broken mechanic”

        Perhaps it was more than just “broken” mechanics that drove Hulkageddon? And lets be real here of course you can still gank mining ships. A handful of meta 4 catalysts and away you go!

        But this is beside the point. Instead of focusing on the crux of the reason why Poetic is leaving which is the TOS Goblin tries to chuck it up to a mere stipulation over miner ganking.

        Poetic is leaving for two reasons: One the TOS and Two and I quote “In creating their safer universe, CCP has killed off some emergent gameplay”. In other words due to making Eve “safer” it has actually hindered the sandbox element to some people who play.

        Now granted this may not be seen by all as a prominent issue yet to some (including myself) it is a very major issue. Lets also not forget Goblin also glazes over the major glaring flaws in the TOS update that James315 has done a brilliant job of explaining here: http://themittani.com/features/james-315-responds-new-anti-scamming-rules

        The result? A mixture of reasons give Poetic more than enough justification to feel the sandbox he loved is taking a different direction. I for one tend to agree. It becomes a slippery slope once started down it’s very hard to stop.

        What irks me is Goblins blatant lack of insight. Instead of looking at these issues in a separate context and weighing each he just spits out his own justifications and puts them to word.

        I myself wrote an article on the TOS changes merely from an outside perspective if you are so inclined to read it: http://hoistthecolors.org/?p=204

        September 18, 2013 at 7:44 am Reply
        1. I just do not know

          Yes I read your blog, before you linked it here, because I like to understand people with different views to me, I had also read the piece by James315. I am not against scamming in game, I am totally against meta gaming, the issue of different accounts used to scam is one that needs to be dealt with, because there is nothing in game to allow the victim to do any checking. Lets take the post on your C&P thread as an example, a teenage Romanian girl, to me that is out of game meta gaming, he then with little irony talks about that being against the sandbox nature of the game, well a sandbox has walls does it not. Lets take Psychotic Monk as an example he gets into corps and kills things even though his history is pretty evident, the people who let him in have the tools in game to check his past, so for me no issue.
          If someone pretends to be close to a member of the Goons in their recruiting department, well in game if he is not in the Goons then that is the first clue, again no sympathy on my part.
          However I know people have multiple accounts that they activate when needed to infiltrate other corps/alliances and they have no history linking them to the original player, this makes in game assessment impossible, the only thing you can do is try to link his IP address to the other account and that is not easy and that is not in game, as a result it blocks potential play because there are no checks and balances around trust.
          I would have a Multiple account indicator on all toons that shows that the player (there being a dedicated main account) has other accounts, then the player has the ability to tick for full disclosure on all accounts or not, so there we have an in game tool enabling the person in game to make a choice, accept or not, well I for one would not accept anyone without full disclosure. Anyone attempting to get around this should be perma banned.
          And why do I suggest this, well a lot of game play is impossible to do because meta gaming is so easy and while it may turn you and your friends on, it lives me cold, your are not playing the game, you are gaming the game. Of course I understand that this is the game you developed with and that you are losing something, but I know about 5 different people who were scammed by meta gaming who left the game never to return, I myself never bother doing certain things now because the meta gaming ruins it, so while you may feel upset about not being able to game the game, I feel upset at not being able to play the game due to those gaming the game.
          But lets be blunt, scams in game are great, ganking is great in HS, but has to be done in game, otherwise your not playing the game.
          By the way I used to GM a game and the fun part was seeing the players try to game the GM, but after a while it got stupid and nasty and that is one of the reasons I stopped it.

          September 18, 2013 at 8:59 am Reply
          1. tara read

            “as a result it blocks potential play because there are no checks and balances around trust.” I read your whole post but for me this really kinda stuck out.

            There have never been checks and balances based upon trust. Not in game mechanics and certainly not endorsed by CCP. Even very basic faq’s for newer players simply state “trust no one.”

            In my beginner’s piracy guide on C&P I flatly state: “trust no one.” It’s a very basic rule one must instill. At any moment someone you’ve known for years may turn on you at a moments notice.

            Declaring alts is something most prominent Alliances require you to do already as a safety measure yet we here of awox’s on a frequent basis. Why is this?

            Because no amount of pre determined “trust” or foreknowledge will protect you if that person turns. Also I’m sorry your friends quit after being scammed however Eve Online is not a game for everyone.

            In fact it’s a very selective and niche game and as such has an appeal for that exact reason. Remember “Freedom” in a sandbox is not just your own choice. It’s accepting the choices of others. And whether or not those choices affect you negatively is just another element of gameplay.

            September 18, 2013 at 10:27 am
          2. I just do not know

            Of course that bit stuck out, because in game all I can do is trust and hope that the person I have let in is not in fact a PL alt, there is no way I can link that back in game.
            But here is the rub, there is nothing in game to able me to manage this, I like the dark nature of Eve, but the ingame tools need to be able to work on linking accounts in some fashion even if voluntary, so at least we have something to work with.

            The sandbox is the game, the walls of that sandbox are the terms and conditions that CCP puts on it, the TOS changes based on that specific event where the scammer used the Wiki to do this to be were correct. Lets take the guy again who posted on your thread in C&P, those people letting him in because he said he was a teenaged Romanian girl deserve to be scammed, pretending to be that on his account is not the issue, my issue comes back to the inability to link his account with that character back to his main which he posted in C&P on.
            If the Meta gaming risk was something I could reduce on the different account level, there is a lot more in this game I would try to do, but as it does not I don’t bother.
            In terms of someone turning that I have no issue with, you often see signs of it, I remember one player starting to go off and he had high roles, so I moved out most stuff in the corp hangers he had access too and left the bare bones, he of course then stole it, but it was chicken shit to me, because I was able to see his attitude change, but that does not work with a PL infilitrating alt does it, though in my corp he would only likely get access to the base hangers. Those 5 I mentioned where scammed at different times by people they had no chance of screening out unless they had the ability to harvest IP’s, is that really what you want to defend.
            The TOS needs to be written better, but my feeling is that CCP are trying to get do something on this issue without doing the right thing, which is unififed accounts or some sort of linking check on multiple accounts. Of course we all know that people will try and get around that, but that should be a bannable offense.
            In my suggsted setup the poster on your thread would still be able to do his Romanian teenage girl based scam, because they never asked him for his API and that to me is legit.

            September 18, 2013 at 10:57 am
          3. tara read

            “Of course that bit stuck out, because in game all I can do is trust and hope that the person I have let in is not in fact a PL alt, there is no way I can link that back in game.
            But here is the rub, there is nothing in game to able me to manage this, I like the dark nature of Eve, but the ingame tools need to be able to work on linking accounts in some fashion even if voluntary, so at least we have something to work with.”

            I completely disagree 100%. Had this idea been implemented years earlier Band Of Brothers would still be around. See this all comes down to essentially “I want the work done for me.”

            Want dirt on someone? Pay someone to find it! C&P has people who buy and sell info. They make their living simply off of selling said info. Or.. you could look back and try to find a pattern in said person? Look for tell tale signs of a scam on the horizon?

            There doesn’t “need” to be a mandatory linking of accounts let alone alts. It will simply break the game entirely especially from an espionage standpoint.

            Think about it. Once this “account linking” goes into affect you see Joe Blow has an account with a PL main or something similar. Potential scams, awox’s, ganks, intel etc all would be lost at the drop of a hat.

            Again the risk vs reward. The element of surprise, of change, of the unknown. These are core game play elements of Eve that has always been around.

            Why now after a decade change them? Because someone got wise and sole a few Supers? There have been heists and scams worth trillions! Why not change it then?

            Because someone edited the wiki and impersonated someone. That’s why. That one little change is what sparked this entire cluster fuck. At any rate we’lll have to see what the CSM say in an update or see if CCP takes any action changing the TOS.

            September 18, 2013 at 11:07 am
          4. I just do not know

            Of course you would disagree, I expected you to, I go through C&P every day, I log reported corp thieves take note of people bragging about what they did and how and its all added to my scam avoidence knowledge. I started trying to take note of PL out of alliance hot drop characters on kill mails, but after seeing them brought and sold I was like hmmmm, so if you can tell me I can buy that info I don’t believe it.
            Espionage though meta gaming, why do you think that no-one in HS gets together to create a movement to roam CFC space in revenge for their HS ganking activities, its because they know that it will be infiltrated quickly and simply. There are only a few players who will play Eve as a dedicated spy player, but they will still exist, but it makes it a lot more difficult and as a result the game improves. The fact is that the game really is more based around meta gaming than the game itself, want to get intel on an alliance, simple get someone in there, if it was as I suggested, someone would have to go in and do the leg work.
            And another point, the stupid will still get killed, how many people even check the history of Pyschotic Monk, that Romanain teenage girl, no API check, you still kill the stupid, but the smart player has a fighting chance, nah meta gaming on different accounts makes it too easy.

            September 18, 2013 at 11:23 am
    2. BS

      Haha so true. Goblin is very small person with hudge ego.

      September 18, 2013 at 9:05 am Reply
    3. Guest

      Here’s some pro tips, sport:

      1. Calling out “Everyone go to highsec kill Hulks, LOL!” is not “organizing content”, especially since the point of Hulkageddon was always to make Goons rich – they held the moongoo at the time, and 70% of the price of a Hulk was moongoo at the time. Pouring bilions into the Goon wallet, some “content” that was

      2. He points out how much he’s ganked to show it’s still perfectly possible to gank barges even after the rebalance, since many people cried it will make them ungankable. Pointing out his wallet, which isn’t even in the article but you still were butthurt enough to list, is also always done to prove a point(i.e. that anyone in the game can get filthy rich in the game doing next to nothing)
      3. The note about “innovative” and “out of the box ideas” is added by the EVEn24 staff, so if you want to blame someone, blame them.
      4. One sentence in the entire post is about how much he’s killed, see #2
      5. At no point in his post, or in his blog, or ever, did I see him say the game is fine and not broken. In fact, I remember numerous examples of the exact opposite, and some of his “solutions” would put even such “hardcore players” like you to shame(i.e. removing mining from the game completely)
      6. Because of how ridiculously bad, misinformed and knee-jerk your response is, I can only assume that his post struck right home, and you’re one of those “hardcore” nullbears yourself. Not surprising.

      September 18, 2013 at 11:03 am Reply
      1. tara read

        Hulkageddon make Goons rich? Are you fucking retarded? Wait don’t answer you might give yourself a nosebleed… And don’t you know the CFC regularly hold their own ganks to manipulate market prices on minerals?

        Just go back a couple weeks in articles to see. Now onto this blatant shitposting.

        “He points out how much he’s ganked to show it’s still perfectly possible to gank barges even after the rebalance, since many people cried it will make them ungankable. Pointing out his wallet, which isn’t even in the article but you still were butthurt enough to list, is also always done to prove a point(i.e. that anyone in the game can get filthy rich in the game doing next to nothing)”

        Okay I’ll bite. So Goblin wasn’t feeding his ego? Like he’s done in multiple articles before? If he simply wanted to prove the validity that miners were still able to be killed why not link recent kill mails?

        Why not give us other examples on the subject besides stroking his own Ego? The answer is there is no other reason besides it. He’s trying to make himself relevant by “proving” he can gank therefore his opinion “must” be valid right? Wrong.

        Furthermore when someone prides themselves upon reaching the gold cap in Wow then thinking the same thing translates to accomplishment in Eve Online they need their head examined.

        Moving on.

        “3. The note about “innovative” and “out of the box ideas” is added by the EVEn24 staff, so if you want to blame someone, blame them.”

        Oh believe me. I’m not the only one asking Riverini why Gelvon is still being posted here…

        “4. One sentence in the entire post is about how much he’s killed, see #2″

        And yet his entire argument is based upon that ONE sentence! Look!

        “5. At no point in his post, or in his blog, or ever, did I see him say the game is fine and not broken. In fact, I remember numerous examples of the exact opposite, and some of his “solutions” would put even such “hardcore players” like you to shame(i.e. removing mining from the game completely)”

        He fails to address the TOS issues, fails to mention anything of relevance toward anything but his own ganks and instead makes this an entire snob post against Poetic while forgoing any mention of CCP’s mishandling and non communicative stance on the TOS issues.

        6. Because of how ridiculously bad, misinformed and knee-jerk your response is, I can only assume that his post struck right home, and you’re one of those “hardcore” nullbears yourself. Not surprising.

        Sorry but swing and a miss sparky. I’m a Low Sec Pirate and member of Shadow Cartel. But thanks for playing…

        September 18, 2013 at 11:18 am Reply
        1. CFC Accountant

          You better be a chick in real life. Cause all you do is bitch and whine about everything, On every site, Everywhere.

          BLAH BLAH BLAH mittens 24 writers are laughing there asses off, Get off mittani’s dick and give someone else a turn to ride.

          Goons got rich from hulkageddon due to them having a majority of the hulk bpo’s from the old t2 lotteries. (FACT) Every time a hulkageddon came around hulks went up in price (FACT), and who has the majority of hulk bpo’s? Goonswarm olldschool players (FACT). But you’re right, as always Tara. Lets disregard how the goons tried to take over Hulkageddon after Helicity quit to keep the stream of isk from hulk sales comin in strong (AGAIN FACT). I think it is you, Tara, that needs to get facts straight. Where is your proof to discredit the statement that goons didnt use the event to make tons of isk? Yeah, As you are shaking your head right now sayin, But i have no proof mr nameless EN 24 reader.

          GG is a bad player/writer. But you my dear take le’cake. Ive never seen you post something that wasnt some angry nerdrage enduced mashing at the keyboard. GG may be bad, But you jus terrible.

          September 20, 2013 at 1:09 am Reply
          1. tara read

            Did I ever say the CFC never made a profit? No. I was clarifying that Hulkageddon was something besides what the OP was claiming. You are turning to semantics when I was simply saying Hulkageddon was a player made event that Goblin is discrediting.

            So please calm your tits and take a breather man. After all it’s only pixels.

            September 20, 2013 at 1:16 am
          2. CFC Accountant

            My tits are always calm. TYVM.

            September 20, 2013 at 1:20 am
          3. tara read

            Can I see? : D

            September 20, 2013 at 1:28 am
          4. amused

            tits or GTFO!

            Eve becoming more like 4chan every day!

            September 21, 2013 at 3:25 am
          5. hillarity

            Complain about the complainers! Good one old sport!::golfclap::

            September 21, 2013 at 3:24 am
    4. wondering

      GG- “Hulkageddon was an event where the dumb and incompetent was preying on everyone due to a broken mechanic”

      tara- “So… by proxy you are calling Hellicity Boson and everyone who participated in every Hulkageddon dumb and incompetent”

      tara, you qualified your statement with with “everyone”. I do not see in GG’s statement qualified as such. Hence, your statement is a logical fallacy.

      September 21, 2013 at 3:20 am Reply
  23. Black n Blue

    “What Poetic and most of the “PvPers” want is not “the strong preys on
    the weak”, because it can easily show that they are the weak.”

    So True

    September 18, 2013 at 6:44 am Reply
  24. some german guy

    Gevlons article
    in a nutshell :

    I’ve ganked 52B in a month long after the mining barge rebalance
    <- smug smug smug

    Yes Goblin we know . You are the best incompetent badass-wannabe around.

    Cocklin , I wait for the day where your butthurtness finaly stops making you suck on riv's tiny wiener.

    September 18, 2013 at 7:52 am Reply
    1. Guest

      The post is 899 words long. There is one sentence in it about how much he ganked, and it is used to prove a point that despite the mining barge rebalance it is still perfectly possible to gank people. And you say the entire post is about him beating his ego.

      The only person who seems butthurt here is you, because apparently you’re so mad that you fail reading comprehension.

      And that’s pretty mad.

      September 18, 2013 at 10:43 am Reply
      1. LMAO Goblin

        We are talking about a player there claims to be a badass PVP’er because he ganked for 52B.. preying solely on ships there cannot shoot back.

        Yeah, that seems really awesome to me too.. Now if he had actually ganked for 52B of say, actual PVP Ships, then I would consider tipping my hat.

        September 18, 2013 at 11:49 am Reply
        1. Thomas

          Right, there are lots of reasons where Gevlon is wrong, but its very easy to completely misunderstand his point and just say ‘lol Gevlon’. He wasn’t claiming to be badass PvP, the first time he started this it was to point out the stupidity of Killboard ISK as a way of measuring PvP skill and now he uses it to show how _anyone_ can gank effectively in high-sec. It’s the opposite of claiming he’s badass because he wants to convince you that anyone with some intelligence and the minimum of skill could do it. He’s saying ‘I can gank 52bill, so should all of the ppl whining about nerfs’ Not ‘I can gank this, you suckers can’t compete’

          September 25, 2013 at 9:00 pm Reply
      2. some german guy

        his whole post is boosting his ego retard.

        September 18, 2013 at 11:52 am Reply
      3. Daniel Plain

        your evaluation would have some merit if this was a one time occurrence. i dare you to find a post of his over the last six months or so where he does not brag about his mad ganking skillz.

        September 19, 2013 at 12:36 am Reply
  25. I just do not know

    “I want a game where players have to protect themselves. A game that forces players to play smart.”
    Where in Eve can you actually work out that the person you let into your corp is really a leading player in PL, a smart player, does that mean someone who has captured the IP addresses of everyone that visits a website and compares them to the players who visits his own corp website, yeah, is that a smart player or someone having to do something out of game because its not possible in game.
    Good riddance Poetic, if you need to meta game to play this game then your the type of gamer I have no time for, the same type that ran bots in first person shooters or shoot through walls…

    September 18, 2013 at 9:32 am Reply
  26. Yourmom

    “His EVE journey show a very interesting “outside the box” approach to the game….” Bla bla bla fuck off Goblin

    -mom

    September 18, 2013 at 12:38 pm Reply
  27. Capt_bored_pants

    I’d didn’t gank 52b. I’m not a titan jockey and don’t meta-game like a master. I have to admit that EvE has become boring. I’ve tried all the “careers”. Sorry no fan-fair or rage quit intended here. It’s just not fun. Sorry CCP!

    September 18, 2013 at 1:34 pm Reply
  28. Alison King

    i read the bit about ganking 52b of bill of ships in month , killboard stats pls or stfu , i can say i ganked a pizza hut and in one month got the equivalent circumference of a 6 mile wide pizza

    September 18, 2013 at 1:39 pm Reply
    1. Tim

      http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1525993

      Not really a tough task though. He spends all his playing time ganking miners. you only need to do about 15 a day to get this level of kills, especially if you get a few lucky pods to inflate it. Anyone with no life could do it.

      When he gets even half of that as actual combat kills, I’ll be impressed.

      September 19, 2013 at 9:11 am Reply
      1. Ur Stupid

        He got a Caldari Navy Hookbill…
        http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19691017
        One step closer.

        September 20, 2013 at 10:19 am Reply
    2. Ur Stupid
      September 20, 2013 at 10:18 am Reply
  29. Minokx
    September 18, 2013 at 2:46 pm Reply
    1. Ur Stupid
      September 20, 2013 at 10:13 am Reply
  30. Daniel Plain

    hey guys, in case you didn’t know, GG has ganked over 52 billion. just FYI, if you haven’t read any of his last 20 articles…

    September 19, 2013 at 12:32 am Reply
  31. qwer

    What the fuck is going on? Gevlon writes a good article (if you ignore his egoistic style)?!

    September 19, 2013 at 1:32 am Reply
  32. sdfsdfafda

    So people get angry at change that isn’t in their favor, big fucking deal. wasn’t EVE’s second commandment ‘adapt or die’? (first commandment would be ‘don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose’)

    September 22, 2013 at 12:56 pm Reply

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