Individually here and there — and as a group — the CSM is taking some heat for our response to the Term of Service changes that I blogged about a couple of days ago.  This comment of the week from reader smg777 is both concise and typical of the thinking:

The CSM response to this has been embarrassing. It’s like you guys have forgotten that you’re supposed to be representing the players and not providing cover for CCP and their horrible GM team.

My response?

Think so?  I think we’ve been holding their feet pretty firmly to the fire.  Every time I write a blog post like [the one I wrote about the TOS], I get a CCP dev (or two, or five) tsk’ing at me or downright asking me what the hell I’m doing.  I write [the posts] anyway.

And that’s also a pretty concise response.  But as this thing drags on, I think it deserves to be expanded somewhat.

Poetic Stanziel wrote a long post about it himself today.  I can’t decide if it’s supposed to be satire or not.  He blames the GMs, CCP Seagull, CCP Unifex, and Hilmar for the changes, an amusing escalating path of responsibility.  He doesn’t come right out and also blame terrorists, the Pentavarite, the Illuminati, or God, but you can kinda feel him thinking about it.  Meanwhile, I suspect the truth is that the GMs and the Community team that they belong to sometimes work fairly independently, or with CCP Legal, they come up with these things and don’t expect huge reactions.  GM Grimmi‘s initial response to the blow-back was illuminating in that I think he sincerely feels that CCP was just clarifying a policy that’s existed for a long time, not actually changing anything.  It is not the first time that that some group in CCP has made what they think is a minor change and through less-than-stellar public relations, watched it explode in their faces.

The result is — contrary to the conspiracy theory set belief — CCP leadership is caught a little bit flat-footed.

I still expect there to be an official response, and I think you’ll see it in the same in-game news sources where the initial change was announced.  These things happen.  At least I do think you’re allowed to be annoyed this time.  Unlike the last “scandal”, this time at least CCP did this on purpose rather than on accident.

Does this mean I or the rest of the CSM are white-knighting CCP?  I suppose you could take that tack.  But as I said, I feel like we’re staying pretty firmly on CCP’s case on this issue.  It comes up every single day in our Skype chat with them and we continue to make sure CCP is aware that players remain concerned.  And CCP knows.  This time they don’t need us to tell them about it.

But we’re telling them anyway.  Goes with the job.  Thanks for the comment, smg777!

Ripard Teg

If you would like to read more we invite you to visit his blog here.

EDIT (13/Sep/2013): A reference to Poetic Stanziel blaming the CSM for the changes has been removed.  Poe, however, has been very critical of CSM member responses to this issue.  I regret the error.


  1. Billbo

    TL;DR A useless group trying to justify “We did something” . it wasn’t you guys holding CCP’s feet to the fire. it was the community with posting multiple threads on GD getting headshot by random ISD’s that pushed the issue.

    September 13, 2013 at 9:08 pm Reply
  2. eve

    No one cares about the terms and conditions. So stop posting about absolutely nothing. Got it?

    September 13, 2013 at 9:17 pm Reply
  3. 2.4

    The only people who are butthurt and pushing this is the Goons, since this affects scamming and their income!

    Expect a burn Jita event to protest this!

    September 13, 2013 at 10:30 pm Reply
    1. Gamer

      It’s opening Pandora’s box is the real issue. It’s no longer the free scale enterprise that is the original advertisement of the game. But in all seriousness goons need to move on to a dif game. For god sakes they are promoting free for all zone events to keep the troops happy.

      September 14, 2013 at 2:22 am Reply
      1. Soulxlight

        Yep, Goons are so big anything they want they pretty much get. They wouldn’t need “Zone Events” if they would stop blueing everything in sight.

        September 14, 2013 at 7:01 am Reply
    2. CCP

      Anything that affects goons is welcome.

      September 14, 2013 at 5:33 am Reply
    3. imsosly

      You mean expect another 3 Trillion ISK wasted by Goons while padding everyone else’s kb’s.

      September 16, 2013 at 12:30 am Reply
  4. tara read

    Amazing. “Concerned” is not the word I’d choose for being perma banned for scamming representing another entity in Eve. This is a slippery slope. What else is a “bannable” offense in the future?

    I guess with EA’s staff slowly invading CCP games I can buy scamming immunity tokens from the Noble Exchange…

    September 14, 2013 at 12:31 am Reply
    1. Random Miner

      a dude outside the game joked about promoting suicide and got banned inside the game. As much as that guy is a total d-bag it still never made a whole lot of sense to me. Much like real life law can be used to put anyone in jail, the eula can be used to justify any ban

      September 14, 2013 at 6:35 am Reply
    2. Titus Veridius

      Right, next thing you know they will ban you for being a goon.

      Wait. I like slopes.

      September 14, 2013 at 8:01 am Reply
      1. imsosly

        I will pay $100/month to CCP for that to happen!

        September 16, 2013 at 12:29 am Reply
    3. imsosly

      I was laughed at and mocked for alarming Jita and various other chat channels of the EA hires. Fucking clueless idiots in EvE. Too many fucking clueless idiots.

      September 16, 2013 at 12:29 am Reply
  5. Tired of eve being so bad

    I am out ending my sub seriously I can handle the bullshit revamps to things that work in the game but a dirty representive group fuck this shit

    September 14, 2013 at 12:55 am Reply
    1. bestshot

      my tear collecting bucket holds 100 gallons could you fill it before you leave?

      September 14, 2013 at 4:38 am Reply
      1. guest is guest

        There does come a point when it isn’t just tears. I don’t know if this is one of them, but I, too, wonder about some decisions CCP makes. First they advertise “be the villain” then, after years of eve being HTFU, now “impersonating a player group” is illegal. E.g…. if I am not a goon, and I say I’m a goon recruiter, I can be banned? What about goons who say they represent goon recruiters? Is that impersonation, or a legal scam? I don’t know anymore.

        September 14, 2013 at 7:41 am Reply
        1. Delve

          It is because they aren’t. And they can be banned for that, which is just lovely. :)

          September 14, 2013 at 8:47 am Reply
        2. -_-

          Im not a scammer nor have I ever been but I view this as limiting part of the game. Things like this will only hurt in the long run. Although I WOULD like to see something done about SPAMMING, go to jita and see something posted every 20 seconds come back again the next day and see the same guy posting the same thing at the same rate, I call it a bot.

          September 14, 2013 at 10:16 am Reply
  6. Titus Veridius

    “Meanwhile, I suspect the truth is that the GMs and the Community team
    that they belong to sometimes work fairly independently, or with CCP
    Legal, they come up with these things and don’t expect huge reactions. ”



    September 14, 2013 at 1:57 am Reply
    1. Simon pieman

      Its time to take off the caps lock i think.

      September 14, 2013 at 5:57 pm Reply
      1. Titus Veridius


        September 16, 2013 at 6:10 am Reply
  7. Devore

    “I get a CCP dev (or two, or five) tsk’ing at me or downright asking me what the hell I’m doing.”

    Oh no! If you keep going like this, things might escalate to entire sternly worded sentences!

    September 14, 2013 at 6:13 am Reply
  8. Paragon

    So what? You get a trial and fines/jail for being an imposter, use a fraud or trick/lie to people and get their riches. In RL it’s called theft among other things and punishable. Why not in the game? Sandbox all nice and fine but limits are limits. And if it’s against CFC and any other entity with stupid “ideals” than I’m fine with it.

    September 14, 2013 at 8:52 am Reply
    1. Titus Veridius


      September 16, 2013 at 6:13 am Reply
  9. boredinnulli

    Progodlegend doesn’t even play anymore. He just posts on Kugu to remind everyone he’s on the CSM as he gets fatter and fatter.

    September 14, 2013 at 9:19 am Reply
  10. ><a1N

    What a bunch of tired grubby little whinging schoolchildren we all must be. CCP do something ‘that we did not know about’ and we cry to each other. Is this really our player base or just a minority?

    September 14, 2013 at 9:46 am Reply
  11. muh

    i’m just wondering. someone makes a contract for moving some shit out of jita. he doesn’t put collaterel on it. and its fraighter size. i haven’t got a fraigter but i accept the contract and break it open, since hey, its free goody’s. would i get a ban couz i’m impersonating a fraigter pilot?

    couz thats what the eula says then. if i wanted that kind of BS i’d go play hello kitty online or wow

    September 14, 2013 at 12:12 pm Reply
    1. Johan du Preez

      go back to school you dont know what you are talking about, your small mind cannot comprehend this keep on hauling stuff in high sec it seems you can atleast manage that.

      September 14, 2013 at 12:28 pm Reply
  12. name

    Why is it that every gdamned thing about this game is getting such a serious response?
    Why? Is it because there is nothing else that matters in your life?

    September 14, 2013 at 3:59 pm Reply
    1. Someguy

      Sadly yes, some people have nothing else but Eve in their lives.

      September 14, 2013 at 10:56 pm Reply
    2. Titus Veridius



      September 16, 2013 at 6:21 am Reply
    1. Titus Veridius


      September 16, 2013 at 6:44 am Reply
  13. wot_ever

    Well, when you have noobs like ali aras on the CSM…enough said. actual CSM is a joke.

    September 15, 2013 at 1:16 am Reply
    1. Guest

      And experience with the game makes for a good CSM member how exactly? progodlegend created everything and yet from the CSM reports it’s clear he does very little.

      Actually, considering that Ali Aras is in a roleplaying alliance, she of all CSM would have the most to lose if the TOS was fully enforced.

      September 15, 2013 at 7:13 am Reply
  14. Alison King

    Well, when you have noobs like ali aras on the CSM…enough said. actual CSM is a joke.+1

    September 15, 2013 at 1:28 am Reply
  15. imsosly

    You are not allowed to pretend to represent CCP or an ingame NPC entity. Why all the tears? Good lord.

    September 16, 2013 at 12:31 am Reply
  16. myneas

    well, lets face it, this is the worst CSM team in the csm history. Bunch of ego stroker and attention whores .

    September 16, 2013 at 12:35 am Reply

Leave a Reply