I am not complaining about supers, first of all, I love supers. I had a Nyx once, and I loved it (PL loved it too….*tears*). It felt good having one. However, what I am saying is there is nothing bad about supers being in the game other than they do not die enough. EVE is a sandbox. Every style of play is open for the… playing. The issue is there is no real answer to Supercapitals without being forced to play that style of game (i.e. bring more supers). In capital and sub-capital fights there is general balance in terms of being able to engage effectively without the exact same type of ship; and while numbers help, that does not guarantee one will win (until the ratios get ridiculous). The following changes will allow for supers to remain effective in the scheme of the game while not being so… super.

I know I am not alone when I say: I want to see EVE burn. There needs to be conflict—from large bloc wars down to isolated wars from non-bloc allies. However, large groups can be everywhere at once it seems, and they bring toys with them to defend SOV. The changes I proposed in part one and two dealt with making SOV easier to mess with (especially with the timer changes, let alone the HP changes). Now for the fun stuff—making supers more willing to blow up.

EVE thrives on conflict. There are many goals of these changes, but one is to allow for groups to mess with expanded empires more effectively. It is important to note that no change made will make 500 versus 50 of any type of ship “fun” for either side. There are already large blobs of supers/dreads/carriers and the proposals below will not change that. However, when coupled with all the sov stuff it will make it significantly more difficult for groups to control large sections of null sec. They don’t have to physically own the SOV to control it with supers. You can’t force project, though, if you have 8 different fronts being attacked. You may be able to clean it up a few times, but after constant harassment you must downsize or burn out your logistic teams. It creates more content for everyone—it does not punish one group over another. Even if these changes take a while to become effective, the little nipping away that will be done by many groups will take its toll.

Super population control is a big issue to a lot of people, however making them hard to get does nothing to kill the ones already out there. So this is EVE. Give everyone some and watch them burn. I am proposing completely changing the thinking behind supers. They are no longer going to be “elite” ships like they were when first released. They have been out a while now, we are accustomed to them, let us use them!

I Can Haz Supercarrier Changes?

There are several changes that need to be made to change supercarriers for the better. The build time needs to be cut in half, and the build requirements need to be cut significantly as well. This will allow more of them to be made, at cheaper prices. The ideal price for a supercarrier should be under 10 billion ISK. This is affordable enough to allow vastly more people to get in them from all different types of groups, and with the faster build time there will be even more competitive prices. Additionally, supercarriers should be allowed to dock in stations, and the Amarr Outpost should be allowed to build supercarriers. Those changes coupled with the price/time reduction will lead to more usefulness and affordability for the smaller guys without getting a character stuck in the process. They would also be able to be traded on the market, thus eliminating the need for 3rd party deals and cause a further increase in competition.

Additionally, they should be given a token 100 m3 drone bay to help deal with the smaller ships. It would not be allowed to have stuff from both bays out at the same time. Going along with those changes the EWAR immunity should be removed and the overall hit points should be reduced in line with the price reduction. If a rifter can tackle a supercarrier, then the supercarrier should have some defensive against that.

To help with logistical uses, the ship maintenance bay should be raised to 3 million M3, and the fleet hanger bumped up to 60,000 M3. This will greatly help small-medium group logistics and deployments and help harassment abilities with SBU’s and such.

Overall these few changes will cause more of these ships to be flown, more risks to be taken with them, and will help to get the stagnate population of supers on a build/die rotation. IT will also vastly increase the ability of small-medium groups to use supers without taking such a big ISK hit if they get blobbed. However, I speculate that with the proposed reduction on SOV HP dropping a couple supers on a problem may not leave the big groups with extended SOV enough time to actually get there.

Titanic Changes

Titans are the biggest ships in the game, and a huge tactical benefit… if you can afford it. Titan’s build time needs to be lowered by half, and the build requirements adjusted to bring the target price around 15 billion. The EWAR immunity should stay the same, as should its inability to dock. However, it should receive a slight EHP reduction in-line with its new cost. I say slight because it should also not be able to be Remote Repped while it is aggressed to or by another player. The Doomsday Device needs to also be able to be fired wherever the ship can go. The above changes will bring it to an affordable but still expensive level to small and medium groups who could do a great many more harassment runs with the availability of a titan bridge, and with the logistics capabilities of the Titan itself. The decreased cost would also cause more people to risk them, which will lead to more deaths of Titans (and that is always a good thing).

Of course the groups that already have hundreds of them will still have hundreds of them. However…who cares? They have the ISK to buy them at 100 Bil each so of course they can buy them if they are cheaper. It is not the larger groups that are suffering currently…at all. Stop thinking about them…seriously…

Carrier and Dread Changes

I have several ideas on how to change and adapt Carrier and Dreads to compliment the super changes. It does involve making them more affordable (both in the 600 – 800 mil range). However, as this article was on super changes I will leave that for another time.

In Summary

These changes should bring supers to a level where they get used a lot more than they do now, which is the problem. By giving those that have then a reason to use them (cheaper on the wallet), and those that don’t have them the hope of getting one, more supers will die and it will become common in battles and not rare. This will help the economy, the gameplay, and break down the barriers for anyone who is interested in SOV.

What these supercapital changes do is provide options for using them and losing them that currently do not exist. A 200 man BS fleet, or carrier fleet, dread fleet, supercarrier, or titan fleet is still scary—and there is nothing that can be done to directly combat the blob except make the game mechanics such that you don’t need the blob.

A big principle for me is that as EVE increases in popularity there will only be bigger and bigger groups. The gameplay balance needs to be adjusted for this new dawn of EVE so that EVE itself is not overrun by massive groups. They will be here, and those in them may have fun, and they will have large battles with each other. A group can have a couple regions of SOV, however, all 3 parts of my series taken together means it will be a lot more difficult to control large amounts of spread out space and that will lead to downsizing. It will create a more active, alive, and diverse null sec experience. This will in turn benefit every area of EVE from high-sec to WH.

I do not know of, nor have I seen, any good ways to stop a blob without a blob. That is what led to me proposing changes that completely ignore the blobs to bring other styles of play up to where they need to be. CCP has made changes the last 2 years trying to “fix supers”, and “Fix moons”…all amid players begging for a chance to compete against the blob. This is EVE; I would rather fight it out with the right tools instead of have CCP change everything. It is time to actually want and propose changes that could give a crap about what the blob will do with them. It is time to burn EVE.

- JustSharkbait

144 Comments

  1. provi pet

    New capital high slot e-war module effective against other caps. New t2 battleship with 4 highs no hardpoints capable of fitting said modules.

    September 10, 2013 at 3:59 pm Reply
  2. Sandbox A Joke

    the sandbox is a joke…captials, and cynos in hi-sec. thanks.

    September 10, 2013 at 7:30 pm Reply
  3. Twingletoez

    NO, they shouldnt have nerfed them the first time.

    September 10, 2013 at 7:44 pm Reply
  4. Sugary Toofiss

    Ever consider problem isnt moons or ships . Maybe just maybe…its the lack of alliances having any identity of their own or desire to have alliance pride seperate of a coalition. Now you have yacky coalition vs yacky coaliton with smacky coaliton on the side of one of them. And it ends up as an F1 blob fest.

    September 10, 2013 at 7:53 pm Reply
  5. Black rabbit

    Nerf Hotdroping via Cyno mechanics
    Done.

    September 10, 2013 at 9:27 pm Reply
  6. stone

    Change the hic’s info point script to reduce hp of a super thats pointed. Make it hit harder on supers so its not a glorified hero point.

    And add a mobile sov siege module that cyno jams the system and reduces hps of supers and structures in system. Yes yes another sov module to grind or protect but uncontested sov is ground faster and contested sov gives the defender an advantage against weakend supers.

    A system sov hack module that can be see sawed to allow up to 6-8hrs add or reduce on rf timers.

    All better than the number crush on supers. It also let’s the little guy even the field.
    Say big coalition drops the mobile sov cyno jam. They can’t be super blobed but they get to have their supers in system before its onlined. However in come sub caps and hics. They either cyno out or have a sub cap fleet over their own. Now the Jammer is still up but supers are all out so now its a sub cap grind or offline the sov mod and risk enemy cynos. Or continue to use sub caps to grind while waiting out the defender. Or go home. Offensive pos to hide in sure but then half get bumped when they all warp to it.
    OK so now that we are hit the first timer a hack module is dropped and hacking the timer can be done. Either side can hack it from anywhere in system and mini game up to 6-8 hours either way.
    Or not even bother with the hack mod if you wanna alarm clock ops.
    Supers can be used more this way but there is still some risk from sub caps and even other supers laying in wait during exit cynos.

    September 10, 2013 at 10:48 pm Reply
  7. John Drees

    Ok, so I liked the article. I don’t agree that having more supers will be better overall though. I did have an idea though that might create some tactical balance and be pretty fun for both haves and have not’s of the super cap game. What if when super capitals jumped through a cyno everything within a particular range would lose its lock temporarily. So, for example if you’re within 50km and a super jumps in there is a “shockwave” that breaks locks. This sounds like nonsense to the people who like to use supers to kill random lonely morons in carriers but by making this change smaller groups can more safely utilize carriers and dreads in low sec space. It would also mean that groups could utilize super capitals to extricate friendly ships from fights that have started to go poorly. This would put super capitals on the offensive and it would provide some breathing room for normal capital ships.

    September 11, 2013 at 6:54 am Reply
  8. Bring bk the sub caps

    i disagree. the idea orginally for the nerf was to stop the the super blob jussharkbaits idea means u’ll jus have more supers in the hands of those who have the supers lol so yeah they can lose them at will, cause they will have 10 in bk up ready to go so the smaller guy still doesnt stand a chance, so that makes ur idea completely retarded they should jus make supers can only attack other caps, they should make the fuel consumption through the roof so they cant be moved from one side of eve to other in a matter of time without any trouble, so if u wanted to use them as a weapon to take sov it would cost u,

    September 11, 2013 at 10:09 am Reply
    1. Ze Noob

      “they should jus make supers can only attack other caps”

      just no

      September 13, 2013 at 7:47 am Reply
  9. Sable

    they should have ewar immunity in triage and seige but not outside of it.
    Also their needs to be a sub cap that can counter caps with a kind of mini doomsday.
    To me the Blop BS are the ideal ship to field such a module and should exceed seige dread dps but only usable on caps. The balance is that blops themselves are paper thin and easy to kill with subcaps.

    September 11, 2013 at 10:29 am Reply
  10. just do it

    easy fix for titans, change the bridge mechanics so that for a titan to bridge the titan itself jumps to the intended position taking every ship within a set radius with it, once landed there is a cool down before the titan can jump out.

    This would make any alliance, corp or titan pilot really consider the possibilities before bridging in turn also making it so you don’t have the large power blocs helicopter dicking from one side of the universe to the other at the drop of a hat. Would probably make titans get used less of the time which would go down well for all the capitals should die believers

    September 11, 2013 at 12:46 pm Reply
    1. some german guy

      Pipebombing Titan Style

      1) take titan

      2) put titan on undock or bubble

      3) hostile fleet undocks or gets caught

      4) bridge hostile fleet onto smartbombing battleships

      5) ????

      6) profit

      Also titans are already underused . especially for their cost. Nerfing titans would make them the most useless ship ingame. The Bridge really is the main reason people even get titans in the first place.

      Think before you post.

      September 11, 2013 at 1:43 pm Reply
      1. chzy

        Well your titan would have to be in fleet with hostile gang…so in which case they would probably be wondering you’re bridging from a bubble; but lets pretend it isn’t: Usually when a fleet sees a hostile titan on undock or in a bubble they tend to shoot at it until it dies, did I clear it up yet? (Maybe you were meaning to write something more clever, but google translator didn’t like you?)
        The bridge is the main reason yes, but the small other reason is when a really big super fight happens is there are so many reps on field it doesn’t really matter how much dps you can do, titans have this magic power of dealing a 3m racial damage spike on any capital, meaning you can spike out supers through reps.
        That being said, nobody really buys a titan for something that never happens so….+1 to you

        September 11, 2013 at 8:58 pm Reply
      2. just do it

        You have to be in a fleet to bridge now so why would they change that for any reason? Take some of your own medicine and think before you post maybe.

        September 12, 2013 at 3:23 am Reply
        1. Ze Noob

          lol see ur still being stupid man listen lets say u pay 120bil for ur titan are u then gonna bridge it in with ur fleet and ensure it dies they are already underpowered and taking their bridge away which is almost the only thing are used for nerfing titans again is a stupid idea they will never get used even more and there will be no point in having them cept to say check it i has a titan plz think before u post thx

          September 12, 2013 at 8:15 am Reply
          1. just do it

            so you are saying that you like the fact that 120bil ships are nothing but glorified taxis? The idea is to find a way to utilise them more then what they are now. You are clueless, your name suits you.

            September 13, 2013 at 5:59 am
          2. Ze Noob

            see ur still not listening. i meant they need to buffed my point was that taking away the one thing they actually used for would just make having a titan useless now maybe if u actually learn to read u might actually be able to post without showing how butt hurt u are. plz think b4 u post thx

            September 13, 2013 at 7:43 am
  11. Mr hammer

    Hey retard… stop while your ahead.. its paper rocks spaceship. someone
    drops a supper fleet… drop a dread feet.. if someone drops a dread
    fleet answer with sub caps like cr BS with newt support… someone
    knocks on your door with CR BS respond with sub caps with escalation triage. they respond with dreads.. you respond with Super… Ok Ok I Know its not alwase those exact responses but that’s pretty much the gist of the game… only thing i think they should change… the availability of Building supers and Titan’s out side of SOV locked space…

    September 12, 2013 at 5:10 am Reply
    1. That’s a horrible idea. SOV needs to be valuable for something unique.

      Why don’t you just allow supers to be built everywhere and then can also go into WH.

      That will be cool right….

      September 12, 2013 at 3:33 pm Reply
  12. Ze Noob

    yes and no i agree something needs to happen because smaller alliances with no supers and titans are pretty much getting squashed by larger entities PL for example how ever i think that supers are not the issue maybe buffing dreads and lowering their costs would make the viable for smaller alliances to field in decent number make them cost around what a carrier costs to build and make the skill book cost the same as a carrier skill book.

    i also agree that supers and titans need to be used more however lowering the price of a super is just going to mean that entities like PL and Goonswarm are going to just buy 3 for every 1 they used to buy and we are in the same situation can’t use them coz their just gonna die i think making a counter for them should be the focus rather then making them more accessible to newer players

    also titans need a buff oh god they need a buff they need to be more then glorified jump bridges maybe up there tracking not to the point where they can hit cruisers and below but something needs to happen coz spending 120bil on a ship u only use to bridge people is a little ridiculous.

    September 12, 2013 at 8:11 am Reply
    1. I do agree about the titan. It is a 120 bil ship. Should be able to do a little more.

      September 12, 2013 at 3:32 pm Reply
  13. the perfect idea dude

    How about this….

    Supers and Titans have too much mass to utilize a cynosaural field that’s not generated from a beacon. No e-jumps to uninhabited systems, predictable landing points, pew pew, etc.

    September 12, 2013 at 4:00 pm Reply
    1. smr

      But drop the requirement for beacon, and make it that a sbu or tcu is necessary…

      September 12, 2013 at 4:02 pm Reply
      1. smr

        and a pos! Sounds like a lot of logistics to deploy supers… I like.

        It would make Cobalt edge almost invul from super invasion though…

        September 12, 2013 at 4:05 pm Reply
  14. Nope.

    This is like 100% communism: utopia on paper, total garbage in practice. If all in this text had to be done tomorrow, EVE would simply … crash. EVE.exe not responding. Why? Because Supers and Titans production would BLOW THE F U C K U P from the already almighty alliances.

    You say Supers would be affordable and used by smaller corps? Yes. But small corps using 0 supers vs 100 supers is the same as small corps using 5 supers against 1000 supers.

    September 12, 2013 at 4:04 pm Reply
  15. Some guy from -A-

    Fun fact, supers are strategic level assets, not tactical. Making them cheap enough to just throw away would surely get more of them out there in the field filling tactical level roles, but it would also obsolete everything that currently fills those rolls. For example, why would you bother to Rokh fleet, when you could drop a few dozen Erebus/Nix on a problem?

    Hint: you wouldn’t. not if you have the high sp duders to make it happen at least.

    September 15, 2013 at 2:56 am Reply
  16. Aaron

    No.

    Just no.

    This won’t make supers more “Usable” in any sense of the word. It’ll make them more prolific. Infact, the changes you’re suggesting is making something with no counter easier to field for power blocs in double the quanitity they can field right now.

    This doesn’t solve anything, infact it makes the problem worse.

    If you want people to loose supers to anything but supers, these kinds of changes has to go hand in hand with an effective and reliable counter to the biggest ships in the game.

    September 15, 2013 at 12:13 pm Reply

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