Each MMOs have player groups. Guilds, clans, corporations. Why to join them? The answer seems obvious: because these groups control resources: a successful WoW raiding guild can get you heroic epic items, a sov-holder EVE alliance can provide you access to jump bridges, stations, reimbursements and blob kill reports. They all give a collection of players who will help you in various things.

However this is a dumb answer. The corporations and guilds have no resources. Every item, station and piece of currency is claimed by the members. Unless you join to be a leech/thief at the first place, you will work for your own stuff. I mean as all resources are created by members and distributed to members, the average member gets exactly as much as he gives, by definition of the term “average”. It is true that often the form of contribution is different from the form of reward. For example the typical EVE Nullsec alliance pilot contributes his time flying in a fleet that capture moons and rented space and he receives ship reimbursements. But such specialization is done without formal grouping in highsec by trading: you run missions that give ISK and LP and can trade the LP shop items for minerals that others mined.

If not resources, then maybe it’s “friends”. The groups facilitate positive interaction between a subset of players. However such groups could be created by game mechanics too and such attempts are not successful. The NPC corp in EVE has no corp life and the “Looking for Dungeon/Raid” feature is considered a horrible social experience suffered only for the extra rewards. Considering that these features connect you to a sample of the playerbase, collecting another sample of the same playerbase should provide exactly the same result: annoyance.

“But my corp/guild isn’t just random players” – you might say and you are right. Not everyone can get into your group. Since your group is a subset of the playerbase, the only thing the group can do is set restrictions. For example a HC raider WoW guild only recruit people who can keep 95%+ raid attendance, have X ilvl and Y bosses killed. In EVE Pandemic Legion only takes you if you have a carrier and decent killboard history. These are all restrictions, locking out large segment of the playerbase.

The restrictions the group looks negative to the player at first glance: “I can do X, Y and Z in the NPC crop, if I join this group, I will be banned from doing Y and Z”. Why does anyone submit to such restrictions? Because he gets something important: groupmembers who are similarly restricted. Joe might want to do X, V and W. Since you don’t like V and find W especially disgusting, you can’t play with Joe in an unstructured environment. But you can both join a group which bans Y, Z, V and W, letting you do only X which you both like. The only thing that the gaming groups have to to offer is a set of restrictions that ban other players from activities that would harm/annoy you.

This came up when comments questioned what my corp has to offer besides restrictive rules? The answer is – just like for every other EVE corp is: nothing. Restrictive rules are all I have to offer. Let me explain these rules from a “what do I get” perspective:

- Provide 5B worth of solo highsec ganks every month. This rule guarantees that every other member is a seasoned ganker. If you see an Orca that needs 8 Catalysts to gank, you can form a fleet of 8 without having to worry that someone sits in a T1 cata, cannot overheat, has his safety green or fails in some other way. You, just need to do your job, they will do theirs.

- Zero nullsec, lowsec or WH kills. Killboard is a simple way of measuring activity and performance. But it has the technical problem of giving every killer the full value of the kill. If you had a noobship in Asakai, you could get nearly a trillion ISK kills by your civilian guns. This rule guarantee that the killboard data of the other members are not inflated by such killmail whoring.

- The corp chat is for sharing kills, asking questions, discussing strategies, trading equipment and forming fleets against whales. Not for jokes, stories, “funny” picture links or other random crap.

- This guarantees that the corp chat will never turn into something you’d like to turn off, it won’t be spammed by irrelevant nonsense and it’s not ignored by everyone but trolls. If you ask a question, you get an answer and not trolling and lols.

- Teach! This is why we are here. Your bio should contain teaching (see example below), you should link the kill on local channel to alert others, and to send them to your bio. It guarantees that others are doing the job too, so the goal of changing EVE is reachable, it’s not just you against the legion of morons and slackers.

- Be self sufficient, don’t beg for ships or modules! This guarantees that no one leeches on you.

Many people think that such restrictions make the game not fun. Which is the point! These people don’t belong to the corp and the only way to keep them out is making the game not fun for them if they still join. I want to find people whose fun is not limited by these rules – on the contrary, their fun would be damaged by the activities I’ve banned: non-performance, kill-whoring, idle chat, porn links, griefing people and begging.

While I claim that every single game group works this way, I do not claim that they use formalized rules. They often run by “we are a friendly group, join and let’s have fun”. Here the limits are set by actions of the leadership, what they do, what they tolerate and what they don’t. This is what’s dubbed as “the personality of the leader matters”. I could run the same corp without written rules, simply by constantly bitching on kill-whores, yelling on porn-spammers celebrating performers and trolling beggars. I simply prefer a formalized ruleset instead of “unwritten rules”.

The main positive of written rules is less noise. No one will join here who doesn’t belong. The main negative is harder start. By having a generic “join and have fun”, you can collect filler people to make the corp lively and active, make the impression that it’s not a “start from zero”. I terminated my business, focused all my efforts here, I’m here for the long run, I am fine if the corp will be very small for months.

I seriously hope that people will find this kind of play desirable. I find it desirable, I don’t find my play limited by the rules above. Unless I’m one-of-a-kind, the corp won’t be empty. It is very likely that 99% of the players would find this corp not fun. But considering that there are about 200K players in EVE, I still have 2K prospective members. To get them in, all I need is to stick to these rules and prove that I mean them.

- Gevlon Goblin

p/s: for the first time I started scanning. Mining barges. I just love my new scout Tengu. I also tested that you can’t be ganked in a mining mission as the ganker arrives at the mission entrance even if the scout is standing next to you. A ganky catalyst can’t just travel 10+ km because the police drones attack it if it’s below -5 security status.

His EVE journey show a very interesting “outside the box” approach to the game, PVE and the trade hubs, reason for which we invite you to pay a visit to his blog.

57 Comments

  1. Billbo

    TLDR awaiting comments

    August 30, 2013 at 8:02 pm Reply
    1. Ur Stupid

      The usual Goblin comments about he sucks dick and how much of a newb he is? Thank fuck you’re not waiting to find out what the article is about.

      August 30, 2013 at 8:27 pm Reply
      1. Billbo

        You must be new to these part eh?

        August 30, 2013 at 9:03 pm Reply
        1. Ur Stupid

          That’s what the majority of the comments are with Goblin’s articles that I’ve seen, not much to do with the actual article unless it’s to criticise him on his hypocrisy.

          August 31, 2013 at 4:24 pm Reply
  2. Captain Obvious

    I don’t think commenting to share my opinion concerning this article is enough, so I think from now on whenever I see a Gevlon article I’ll do something else and NOT click on it and read it. I cannot get that time back now so I shall take up flower arranging instead. I’m sure that in the same amount of time it takes to read one of these articles, I can squash a daisy or daffodil quite nicely.

    August 30, 2013 at 8:05 pm Reply
  3. Makalu

    “The NPC corp in EVE has no corp life”

    LOL shows how much you know about the game noob.

    CAS for life.

    August 30, 2013 at 8:08 pm Reply
    1. CAS Corp Best Corp

      +1. CAS has excellent corp life, can’t wait for next CCD. You forgot GG that the biggest restriction in your ‘guild’ is that the members have to tolerate you.
      Riv, you need an open submission section, I enjoy the lols I get from GG articles and comments section but seriously, you need a better variety of articles!

      August 30, 2013 at 11:35 pm Reply
  4. GEVLON SUCKS DICK

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    August 30, 2013 at 8:08 pm Reply
    1. DS

      The second installment in what promises to be a riveting series. This episode explored the depths of the character’s origins while staying true to the progress that has so far been achieved.

      August 31, 2013 at 6:23 am Reply
  5. Del

    Guilds? Please, fuck off already.

    August 30, 2013 at 8:15 pm Reply
  6. Ming Tso

    Congratulations on learning how to scan. That’s an awesome skill to have in your cap.

    August 30, 2013 at 8:22 pm Reply
  7. Jay Jackson

    So essentially, this was nothing but a “join my corporation” whore post by Gevlon?

    Seriously, how is this guy ANYONE in the Eve community, much less a writer? Guess I’ll go see if this website takes submissions, maybe if you got some other quality writers we wouldn’t have to deal with the moronic shit he posts.

    August 30, 2013 at 8:35 pm Reply
    1. Jay Jackson

      “The only thing that the gaming groups have to to offer is a set of restrictions that ban other players from activities that would harm/annoy you.”

      Yes, I forgot… no corporations provide SRP, or any other things that would help players. It’s all just rules and restrictions, and no benefit… Seriously, I’m sputtering that a “major” website still allows this pointless drivel.

      August 30, 2013 at 8:38 pm Reply
      1. Thomas

        You missed his point, he was saying that Alliance in EVE get their money from the time and isk that it’s members put in, so that whilst they give you SRP and all these over schemes, they’re actually just funding it with your time and money to no net gain. The money for SRP doesn’t appear out of thin air

        It’s wrong because alliances create ISK through co-operation, but he’s thought a lot more than you’re giving him credit for

        September 2, 2013 at 12:38 pm Reply
        1. Jay Jackson

          Yes, you have to do things to be part of a major alliance. They do “get richer” on your back. I won’t question that.

          But to say that corporations offer nothing to players is obviously false, at best. If they offered nothing to anyone, why would ANYONE join a corporation?

          Even worse, he makes it seem as if his stupid “restrictions” are par for the course, so no one should feel stupid for joining his corporation and only playing the way he wants you to.

          It’s a pathetic article with pretty much zero being based in fact, and honestly, I don’t see how he can even base it in fantasy.

          September 3, 2013 at 7:24 pm Reply
  8. 2.4

    You’re a fucking idiot…

    August 30, 2013 at 8:46 pm Reply
    1. Gort

      He really is….. This just seems some type of Troll rather than any type of rational article, come on Riv if you need other people to submit article why not lay out some guidelines and I’m sure a few of us will give it a bash.

      August 30, 2013 at 9:10 pm Reply
  9. Shadowblade1436

    omg, its this guy again.. Goblin no one cares… Honestly Eve 24 stop posting his stories… He’s 90% wrong 90% of the time; he is just an irrelevant carebear that no one cares about…

    August 30, 2013 at 9:14 pm Reply
  10. roger the space ship pilot

    goblin is either an extremely good troll or a total retard – you make you own minds up

    August 30, 2013 at 9:20 pm Reply
  11. Internet Lawyer

    Actually, I’m starting to like the comedy value of these posts.

    August 30, 2013 at 9:27 pm Reply
  12. Lucy

    By Glevon Goblin | Aug 30th 2013 7:49PM

    just sayin…

    August 30, 2013 at 9:28 pm Reply
  13. BS

    Wonder how long his guild will survive. I’m really tempted to make private corp and wardec them. So many tears. But I suppose there will be many corps that will fancy bashing this retard and his team of pro gankers.

    August 30, 2013 at 9:28 pm Reply
  14. Enockx

    I am saddened that I read this whole thing. I guess I kept waiting for some sort of profound conclusion or something worthwhile. The only thing I learned from this article is in the posts after it. I learned that Gelvon Goblin enjoys penis. Fascinating.

    August 30, 2013 at 9:30 pm Reply
    1. DeVadder

      His articles are not posted here to educate people but because it is fun to smirk about Gevlons “opinions”.

      August 31, 2013 at 2:41 pm Reply
  15. Someone

    You know what? The fun part is all bitching about GG’s topics. They all spend the time reading it and from the replies in detail. If you don’t care or like what he writes, just don’t read…. Man I luv this game!
    GG, while I don’t always agree with you when I do I drink DosEquis!

    August 30, 2013 at 9:32 pm Reply
  16. Gevlons a pubbie

    “His EVE journey show a very
    interesting “outside the box” approach to the game, PVE and the trade
    hubs, reason for which we invite you to pay a visit to his blog”

    Whoever wrote that, really needs to put… the… bong…. down.

    August 30, 2013 at 9:43 pm Reply
  17. JG

    I see the other site is poaching all the writters. Only this dude left uhm riv.

    August 30, 2013 at 9:48 pm Reply
    1. Hhaha

      The worst one. This guys blows more every day. Who gives a shit about your corp rules, no one want to be in it anyways. Eve is about doing what u want when u want. Anything else is retarded. Enough rules in real life.

      August 31, 2013 at 12:34 am Reply
  18. Remm

    Funny how “irrelevant” Gevlon is, while there’s this big a ruckus about it! ;)

    August 30, 2013 at 10:19 pm Reply
  19. TrollFaceOn

    I think Gelvon might just be an alt of Xenuria (remember him?) who is trolling everyone and their mothers!

    August 30, 2013 at 10:39 pm Reply
  20. Gevlon is god.

    I saw gevlon ganking in Villore today, a true hero of Eve and an inspiration.

    August 30, 2013 at 10:44 pm Reply
  21. Chazzle

    But you’ve missed everything important in the game!

    If you just want to maximize ISK per hour or missions run per day don’t do any, your ISK per hour ratio will be infinite if you never play at all.

    EVE is about EXPERIENCE.

    It’s about what it feels like to be part of something, to have buddies and go on a mad adventure across the galaxy.

    That’s why it’s worth playing.

    If you want to make ISK as fast as possible go and get a job IRL and buy plex.

    If you want to have no restrictions on you don’t play at all, the whole game is just a list of rules about where you can warp to and what you can shoot.

    LIVING IS EXPERIENCING.

    And it’s a million times better if you’re not analytical and lonely all the time.

    August 31, 2013 at 12:24 am Reply
  22. briancnelson

    Tldr “i am antisocial and do not understand or enjoy the company of other humans. You should be the same way so that I can justify my personal failure.”

    August 31, 2013 at 12:54 am Reply
  23. Sperg Alert

    You don’t seem to understand the concept of ‘community’.

    Or maybe you do. Your stated corp ‘restrictions’ make you sound like a sociopath, which you probably are.

    August 31, 2013 at 1:06 am Reply
    1. Provi Miner

      You do know that real corps are profiled as sociopathic, right? Despite doing “good” things occasionally you can always trace these “good” acts back to a self-serving interest for the corp.

      August 31, 2013 at 4:00 am Reply
  24. please write an article about friendship. I need a good laugh.

    August 31, 2013 at 1:20 am Reply
  25. arfabarfa

    Takes more than a carrier and a good kb to get into PL.

    August 31, 2013 at 2:17 am Reply
    1. bitter PL grunt

      The old PL? yeah probably.

      The new PL including such esteemed corps like Tropa and BUSA? LOL

      August 31, 2013 at 2:24 am Reply
    2. Provi Miner

      yeah an eternal fear of BL. The ability to find joy in dropping 3 nyx’s on a scorp navy. The ability and desire to run and hide from major confrontations in which the outcome is not certian.

      August 31, 2013 at 3:59 am Reply
  26. Provi Miner

    I am confused, you are suggesting that corps offer restrictions only? Well here are some recent “restrictions” I have found in my corp. A: when I called for help someone answered to actually help me. B: When I needed a few isk to upship someone loaned me the isk. C: When I went out to mine I was suprised by the extra new ore site that was a result of my corp upgrading the system. D: getting boost to my tackle, speed and shields was a very nice restriction in the last pvp we had. If these are the restrictions you speak of then I for one am happy with them.

    August 31, 2013 at 3:57 am Reply
  27. You must SURELY be a troll…for fucks sake, you try and complicate some things that need no complicating so that you can ‘appear’ to be superior to every other poor old sap playing EVE, when in fact, your just a fucking idiot :/

    August 31, 2013 at 5:37 am Reply
  28. Justin May

    Ok. I thought your other articles worth reading because of the comments. This one just plain sucks. Who gives a shit about wow? Not us, we fly space pixels. I would wardec your corp if I cared enough, and post porn in local. This article is the worst I have read on both news sites. Congrats.

    August 31, 2013 at 5:41 am Reply
  29. John Smith

    Hooray! Yet another brain-dead hypocrite on evenews24:

    “their fun would be damaged by the activities I’ve banned: (…) griefing people (…) ”

    This kid is afraid of having griefers in his corp, but has no issue with griefing other players by ganking people in hi-sec; what a completely spineless pussy. “WAAAA I WANNA GRIEF PEOPLE IN HI-SEC BUT I DON’T WANT TO GET GRIEFED IN MY OWN CORP WAAAAA”. Loser.

    Oh, and also, it’s incredibly funny that you look down on “killmail whores” when you’re just a pathetic wimp that goes after hi-sec PvE players and traders using throwaway gank ships; attacking people that can’t or won’t even fight back at all. You’re the very definition of a worthless killmail whore; none of your killmails take any skill to get on whatsoever.

    August 31, 2013 at 6:39 am Reply
    1. DeVadder

      Must be your first Gevlon article.
      What you just mentioned is the only point in his articles and making fun of his self-absorbed anti-social opinions is the only reason they are published here.
      Basically all his work can be summarized by the fact that he put friends in ” ” In his world, there is nothing like friends and mutual respect and if you crave either you are a looser. And that is why he puts so much effort into writing articles telling everybody how he got it figured out.

      August 31, 2013 at 2:31 pm Reply
  30. WhiteHalo117

    As soon as I saw the word Guild on EN24 I knew it was a Glevon Goblin article and instantly went to the comments to see the amusing insults toward him.

    August 31, 2013 at 7:19 am Reply
  31. tara read

    This article makes absolutely no sense. Besides trying to create a disillusioned parallel between WoW guilds and Eve corporations/allances/coalitions it tries to create something out of nothing. Being in a corp doesn’t mean you need to do things by the letter 100% of the time.

    And unlike the bland one dimensional playstyles of WoW, Eve gives you a multitude of possibility. Take for example piracy Gelvon. You have suicide ganks, blops, solo, small roam, big ops, capital ganks, scamming, camps just to name some very broad subjects.

    Point being is many different people have different wants and styles of play that interest them. How is this restrictive? I think you have absolutely no clue what it means to be part of a team or even have something that resembles friends in Eve.

    Its why you put the word in quotations right? Because god forbid people here give no fucks about purple gear or being in a corp for the mere sake of leeching. There are some of us gelvon who actually play for fun with a structure behind it.

    Obviously you do not..

    August 31, 2013 at 10:04 am Reply
  32. blubb

    and as usual, most commentors have not read the article …

    guys, don’t rage about trolling if you can’t do any better yourself – it’s even more lame than his articles.

    August 31, 2013 at 10:29 am Reply
    1. Tim

      I think you are failing to read here… We’ve all read it, and it’s a bunch of horse shit. An I can write better.
      Corporations offer many things. Structure, leadership, social opportunities, focused skill sets. The list goes on.

      This is just a BS blog post with the aim of saying “My corp does everything right, while everyone else does everything wrong.” It’s retarded.

      September 2, 2013 at 10:02 am Reply
  33. Thomas

    I would like to break tradition and rather than discussing on the oh-so scintillating levels of ‘gevlon sucks’, which certainly shows that you have the intelligence to read an argument and take it to pieces on a logical level, and point out that gevlon has missed a pretty basic factor of economic theory here, which is individuals producing more overall collectively. Individuals can’t control moons or renter empires, or FC fleets, so the average worth to each individual _is_ more than the worth of an average individual.

    This is why society was a good evolutionary route, else we’d all be living up trees and rejecting social interaction

    August 31, 2013 at 11:31 am Reply
    1. Seraph Castillon

      This. Also Gevlon sucks.

      August 31, 2013 at 11:42 am Reply
  34. Xotoxic

    “However this is a dumb answer. The corporations and guilds have no
    resources. Every item, station and piece of currency is claimed by the
    members.”

    While this might be true in a philosophical way, it’s not how Eve Game Mechanics work.

    There are certain things, that CAN only be done by Corps and/or Alliances.

    On a smaller Scale, take a POS: a POS is always Corp-Property. No matter, if you bought it or not or whoever anchors it, as soon, as anchoring starts, it becomes property of the Corp, not a specific Player. How the POS is used (e.g. your “personal” POS) is a matter of Corp-internal politics. It could even be taken from you on behalf of the Corp at any time by anyone, who has the (Corp-given) rights to do so.

    So, philosophically, the POS might belong to you, but practically, it belongs to the Corp. Also, you NEED to be in a Corp, to set up a POS at all.

    On a larger Scale, let’s have a look at SOV: Sovereignty happens on a Corp/Alliance Level. You have to be in a Corp and that Corp has to be in an Alliance, so you can claim SOV and/or Stations at all.

    While you still need Players to “do stuff”, also the Corp has to pay the monthly SOV-Bill and the Alliance has to pay the monthly Alliance-Fee. Whatever the Players do, “their” SOV will be gone, if the Corp and/or Alliance neglect to pay or just kick you.

    (yes, there’s a lot more to it, especially null-sec politics like standings etc., but I want to stick to plain game mechanics here).

    Even if you would hypothetically manage to conquer a Nullsec System and Station, it just would not work, as long as you are not part of a Corp, that in turn is part of an Alliance.

    As a third example, most Highsec-Corps will probably have lower Taxrates than the NPC-Corps, so if nothing else, they will make you benefit more from your own earnings.

    So, after all, Corps and Alliances DO have certain benefits, that only they can give to you.

    Your definition

    “The only thing that the gaming groups have to to offer is a set of restrictions that ban other players from activities that would harm/annoy you.”

    is imho plainly wrong. As proven above, Corps have certain things, that only they can give to you. Furthermore I would define a Corp as a group of players, that work towards common goals in certain ways. You, as a Player, can decide, if you can identify with that before even thinking of joining. Alliances basically work in the same way with more Players and added layers of organization.

    August 31, 2013 at 2:09 pm Reply
  35. Banden

    How you know its gonna suck: Starts out with a reference to how “how it works in WOW”. Oh and you need sovand thereby also a corp and alliance to obtain a super, that should play into your retarded WOW mindset.

    September 1, 2013 at 12:21 pm Reply
  36. Drink the Water

    You forgot the main reason that people join corps is the social aspect…

    “- The corp chat is for sharing kills, asking questions, discussing strategies, trading equipment and forming fleets against whales. Not for jokes, stories, “funny” picture links or other random crap.”

    But judging from the look of this, your autism has gotten too severe to understand the concept of socializing.

    September 2, 2013 at 6:38 pm Reply
  37. Notyourmom

    Fuck off Goblin

    September 3, 2013 at 11:49 am Reply
  38. Luwc

    What the fuck.

    ~guilds~

    September 3, 2013 at 1:00 pm Reply
  39. Daniel Plain

    this idea is about as terrible as DUST. in contrast to DUST, it just might actually work.

    September 3, 2013 at 1:40 pm Reply
  40. kimu

    i carry my guild guys in bantams >> set them in line and shoot them :D that’s all about gilds I wanna say

    September 6, 2013 at 11:13 pm Reply

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