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“When beggars die there are no comets seen;
The heavens themselves blaze forth the death of princes.”

             – Shakespeare, Julius Caesar

Over at Jester’s Trek, Ripard has been looking at the post-Odyssey Technetium market findings written up in Lockfox’s recent TMC article.   The long and short of Ripard’s post is that, owing to Odyssey changes, the price of Technetium has crashed. Thus, he writes, Goonswarm is in dire financial straits straits that mere R64 moons cannot remedy, which in turn means that Goonswarm’s existence is threatened; their current dominance of nullsec being utterly dependent on an unbroken flood of Technetium-based ISK. This, Ripard says, has driven Goonswarm to announce they will be renting nullsec systems to pubbie scrublords; an act of apostasy in Goon culture that has turned its leadership into philosophical contortionists as they attempt to reconcile their present financial plans with past moral preaching. 

For reasons beyond my understanding, Ripard has gotten the impression that I am given to gloating and that this news will provide an occasion for me to indulge.  While I’m not above the odd victory dance when the occasion warrants it, schadenfreude is not my drug of choice.  Gloating is a leading indicator of sloppy thinking. Further, gloating tends to pre-suppose that all the chips have fallen where they may; that all the shoes have dropped.

In this case nothing could be further from the truth.

Ripard may be referring to a post I wrote in July of 2011 called The Wealth of Nullec, in which I pointed out evident flaws in the reasoning behind what I call CCP’s “One Percent Solution” (1%) design paradigm for nullsec and called for the elimination of nullsecs large-bore ISK faucets. 

Assuming the Technetium numbers are correct, CCP has taken an important first step in turning nullsec toward their long-held vision of a larger number of entities in possession of smaller patches of nullsec real estate. This would mark the defeat within CCP of the 1% paradigm, which assumed the presence of a limited number of exceedingly high value resources would provoke running sov wars as nullsec alliances battled for ownership of them. In fact, as many bloggers and members of the player base predicted at the time, what happened was quite the opposite.

It turned out that the large-bore ISK faucets, Technetium in particular, merely bestowed upon their posessors an overwhelming strategic advantage which they then leveraged to ensure their hold on those income streams was unbreakable except through internal upheaval. Entities incapable of internal stability or prone to sov aggression were quickly weeded out of the Technetium-holding population. The result was the Technetium cartel and the so-called Blue Doughnut that actively suppressed sov warfare in the majority of nullsec.

At the end of the day, the cascade of ISK pouring down on selected bits of nullsec real estate proved so valuable they provided a strong incentive against the very sov warfare and power diffusion CCP’s designers expected them to promote.

Unlike Ripard, I don’t believe the Technetium nerf or its impact caught Goonswarm’s leadership flat footed. Nor do I find the idea that The Mittani® was
completely in the dark as to the income generating potential of system
renting remotely credible. 

The Technetium nerf has been in the works for some time as evidenced by last December’s CSM minutes. The Mittani® has long been an advocate of the Farms and Fields (F&F) paradigm for nullsec and, last Autumn, Goonswarm’s financial team published a series of articles in support of that paradigm on TMC. Nullsec’s CSM7 reps lobbied aggressively for industrial buffs to nullsec infrastructure and minerals as a replacement for the anticipated loss of Technetium income, which CCP largely obliged in the Odyssey release.

Now, in order to develop a robust industrial economy capable of replacing a substantial portion of the income lost through the Technetium nerf, nullsec must have a key asset that is beyond CCP’s power to bestow: F&F requires that a large industrial workforce migrate to nullsec and ply their trade in that space.

While Goonswarm’s membership includes a healthy number of industrialists relative to its peer nullsec alliances, they are in no wise sufficient to generate the industrial activity needed to jump-start F&F to the degree needed to offset lost Technetium income. Further, in order to sell the presence of a large industrial population in nullsec to its rank and file, the Goonswarm financial team is on record as casting this population primarily as a nullsec underclass: peasants or cattle to be used for financial gain and slaughtered for the amusement of the PvP elite. For obvious reasons, standing members of Goonswarm cannot be asked to lower themselves to fill that role. Thus, this underclass must be recruited and, in the minds of Goonswarm’s leadership, the role of renter could have been tailor made for that purpose. Renters are being hawked to the Goonswarm’s membership as a lower life form whose presence, while undesirable, is financially necessary.

Of course I am not be the first to point out that calling your intended clientele cattle, sheep and pubbie scrublords while talking enthusiastically about the vast swarms of enemies that will come and try to blow up that intended clientele’s stuff once they arrive is, quite possibly, the worst rental ad campaign ever devised. Switching gears from the virulent pubbie hatred Goonswarm’s leadership has cultivated over the years to promoting and providing competitive services for said pubbies will not be an easy cultural transition. It will, however, be a necessary one if  Goonswarm expects to command the rents it needs to maintain its present life-style and develop itself as an industrial power-house.

For F&F to be successful, Goonswarm will need to attract the industrial subset of the carebear community. While ratting renters money spends as well as an industrial renters money, the former do not generate the secondary income streams and market activity that the latter do. Further, Goonswarm’s desire to become independent of highsec markets cannot be accomplished without a critical mass of industrial players.

Industrialists tend to be a pragmatic lot and don’t place a high value on their landlord’s affections. They do, however, expect efficient management, services at favorable prices, limited restrictions on their activities and a reasonably safe environment in which to ply their trades in exchange for their coin. And they will respond positively to targeted production incentives should Goonswarm choose to offer them. But, that pragmatism swings both ways. Unlike technetium moons, industrialists are mobile. If Goonswarm cannot provide these essentials the industrialists will go elsewhere. 

Goonswarm has foreseen this, of course, and will game CCP, the renter community and competing landlords aggressively in order to make alternatives to renting from Goonswarm less desirable. The next war in Nullsec has already begin and will have a heavy economic component, whether Goonswarm’s competition realizes it or not. Those competing renter alliances unschooled in business, lacking accomplished spreadsheet warriors and without skilled diplomats would do well to shore up those skill gaps in a hurry. This war will be fought as much from the boardroom as on the battlefield. 

Many large-bore ISK faucets remain in nullsec, and the loss of Technetium should have no-one crying poverty.  However, in order to maintain spending habits acquired during the Technetium bubble, renters have become a necessity. Now Goonswarm intends to build their empire into an economic powerhouse independent of New Eden’s empire markets. And for that, the industrialization of nullsec is a prerequisite. In such a game, well organized and efficient lords of industry are no beggars, but princes in their own right.

And their fortunes shall be writ ‘pon nullsec’s very heavens.

- Mord Fiddle

About the Author: Mord Fiddle’s writings are an invitation to high tea in a world of rave parties. His readers gather at http://fiddlersedge.blogspot.com/ for thoughtful analysis, daring prose, deep insights, and Mord’s tendency to use words not writ nor spoken conversationally since Middle English went out of fashion.

67 Comments

  1. Gort

    Metcalfe’s Law is very much a driver in terms of the ultimate value that can be reached in any market and that is why the free trade of HiSec is such an overwhelming advantage versus any new industrialisation in NullSec unless these new “Lords” are willing and able to grant free and unhindered access.

    August 21, 2013 at 9:47 pm Reply
  2. Leicester

    I wonder how long it will take for Goon renters will wake up and realise that they are being fleeced when they have to pay their landlords regardless of whether their systems are permanently camped by cloakies just waiting to point and Blops drop them, thus preventing or at least hindering their isk generating abilities.
    Then, once their mining barges and ratting drakes have been destroyed and they are unable to pay the rent necessary to stay in Goons Carebear Wonderland, they’ll be kicked to the kerb unceremoniously.

    I’ll be one of those cloaky camping faggots waiting to make it happen. I’m sure I’m not the only one.

    August 21, 2013 at 10:37 pm Reply
    1. vetteballen

      Ratting drake? Really?

      August 21, 2013 at 11:06 pm Reply
      1. guristas are best

        ratting drake only drake

        August 21, 2013 at 11:41 pm Reply
      2. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

        Ratting Rattlesnakes rule.

        August 22, 2013 at 4:37 pm Reply
    2. rating drake

      Your mom is ratting in a drake, we rat in Vindicators and Machariels and make easily 120 mil a blink. And we give no shit about cloaky fags since we can move to the other ratting areas.

      August 22, 2013 at 12:07 pm Reply
      1. Mord Fiddle

        “And we give no shit about cloaky fags since we can move to the other ratting areas.”
        Not if you’re restricted to ratting in your designated system(s). As a renter you are commonly not allowed to rat in systems outside the ones you’ve rented. And I believe Goonswarm is not going to allow renters to rat in non-renter renter systems. At last check even lingering in non-renter space on your way to/from your system(s) would make you a viable target to the Goon rank and file.

        I’ll be very interested to see their initial set of rules and regulations for renters.

        August 22, 2013 at 1:20 pm Reply
      2. TiredOfAllTheStupid

        360m/hour, riiiiggghhhtttt

        August 22, 2013 at 2:51 pm Reply
        1. Gotta plex them all

          It’s more like 120/account/hour but meh

          August 23, 2013 at 7:14 am Reply
  3. please proofread

    Could someone PLEASE proofread these articles before they are published please?

    August 22, 2013 at 12:12 am Reply
    1. curious george

      What’s wrong with it?

      August 22, 2013 at 12:18 am Reply
      1. Dennis the Dreamer

        he want a pro-goons article.

        August 22, 2013 at 3:21 am Reply
        1. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

          Riverini would have a stroke… hee hee.

          August 22, 2013 at 4:33 pm Reply
      2. spurty

        There are a couple of typos.

        Not spelling, but phrases that are wrong “.. they are in no ***wise*** sufficient to generate the industrial …”

        No biggy, nice article, good read.

        Goons created something of a passively hostile ‘creed’ which attracted people that liked what they were selling.

        Now they have to ‘get religion’ and act against their own creed, so nice lemon party for the members (puns intended).

        Love to see nature take a bite out of them and the hardcore ones become fodder for their “Only here for the beer” brothers.

        EVE is brutal.

        August 22, 2013 at 6:20 pm Reply
        1. Mord Fiddle

          My phrases, sir, are perfect.

          “No wise” (sometimes spelled “nowise”) is an archaic, but perfectly acceptable alternative to “no way”. You may choose to use a dull and pasteurized form of the English language. For myself, I prefer to celebrate English and allow it its full range of range of expression, even unto archaic twists and turns of phrase.

          Regular readers of Fiddler’s Edge are familiar with my “tendency to use words not writ nor spoken conversationally since Middle English went out of fashion” as it says in my bio above. I strongly recommend you join us there for high tea.

          For further edification on the use of “no wise” see http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/in%2Bno%2Bwise___1).

          And with that, sir, I give you good day.

          August 22, 2013 at 7:53 pm Reply
  4. Stabs

    The problem with F&F en-masse is that there is more space available than there are renters available to fill them. The nullsec entities will have to compete with each other to attract these industrialists.

    August 22, 2013 at 12:27 am Reply
  5. Joe Knows

    Goons have a reputation to overcome and there almost zero rich retarded noob pubbies to beguile. Fools who rent in Goon space deserve the shaft…

    August 22, 2013 at 12:46 am Reply
    1. renting from goons

      citation needed

      August 22, 2013 at 1:53 am Reply
    2. arkady

      ‘almost zero rich retarded noob pubbies.’ If my wallet is anything to go by, they are fucking everywhere, just aching to give me all their isk for nothing but promises (that I won’t keep). I’m not talking millions. I’m not talking billions. I’m talking tens of billions.

      August 22, 2013 at 10:59 am Reply
  6. Devore

    I don’t think CFC has stated independence from hi sec industry as a desirable goal. Jumping mass quantities of stuff in from Jita, where hi sec pubbies toil away to produce goods with barely a profit margin (because their time is “free”) is just another reason for Goons to gloat over them. 0.0 industry is, has been, and probably always will be, worse in every way you can measure than doing it in the relatively perfect safety of hi sec and importing it in.

    However, true that in order for more and more renters to be moving into 0.0 space, there needs to be a reason for them to do so. Everyone who wants to rent null space is already doing so. They have lots of options. As EVE population is only slowly crawling up over time (nothing wrong with that), any new renters must be players already established in hi sec making a voluntary move. So industry in null needs to get _better_ (but it will never be as good as hi sec, because that will always be the watermark) and be generally more useful and desired by space-owning alliances. I get the feeling industry in 0.0 is _tolerated_, as long as the industrialists show some reasonable effort towards PvP when needed. But without heavy reliance on hi sec imports, there is not sufficient productive capacity to supply all the 0.0 needs.

    I don’t know how true this is, but someone mentioned that if every factory slot in 0.0 stations was producing ammo, full time, it could not keep up with the demand. Yes, I understand POSes manufacture stuff too, but this just illustrates how precarious the situation is, and how much logistical trouble, effort and expense an alliance must go to to make their own stuff. And why go to all this trouble, when there are tons of hi and low sec factory slots sitting idle.

    August 22, 2013 at 1:36 am Reply
    1. Guess

      “when there are tons of hi and low sec factory slots sitting idle” actualy in quite a few regions round trade hubs especialy they tend to be constantly busy.
      and yes you can build a successful indy base in nullsec quite easily, problem being is Goons own past reputation coming back to completely, totaly and utterly bite them in the ass.
      think most that will make the transition to nullsec manufacturing from empire are more likely to go rent off NC. etc rather than risk goon scams.
      that and “the Goonswarm financial team is on record as casting this population
      primarily as a nullsec underclass: peasants or cattle to be used for
      financial gain and slaughtered for the amusement of the PvP elite”
      the last part is VERY VERY likely the reasons goons are unlikely to get ANY renters at all, specialy when goons (being blues to their renters) start helping out of alliance/neut alts to slaughter said renters “for the amusement of the PvP elite”

      August 22, 2013 at 1:45 am Reply
      1. Just Checkin'

        “especially when goons (being blues to their renters) start helping out alliance/neut alts to slaughter said renters “for the amusement of the
        PvP elite” ”

        I think that’s the greatest problem. If CFC has no more fights they will try to amuse their self by getting a kills from renters by using alts.

        Even if some line members force renters out no one will know that they were them who did it and they will suffer no consequences.

        Anyway. Only time can tell.

        August 22, 2013 at 8:55 am Reply
        1. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

          The full API keys required by nearly all CFC alliances show all the characters on an account. So you see, it is merely a case of matching an alt to the main through the API. At least it will be in a large number of the cases.

          August 22, 2013 at 4:32 pm Reply
          1. Just Checkin'

            “The full API keys required by nearly all CFC alliances show all the characters on an account.”
            Well… I’m sure its news to you but most players in EvE have more than one accounts and usually one of the accounts is “hidden” from the alliance/corporation they belong…

            August 22, 2013 at 6:15 pm
          2. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

            Well, since you must have more than 2 accounts, you need to wipe the chicken grease off of your chubby fingers and somehow crawl up the stairs (with your weight, I know it is hard… but you can do it with enough determination) out of you Mom’s basement, and look out at the world. There really is a world beyond Mom’s basement… I swear!

            August 23, 2013 at 12:44 am
          3. Just Checkin'

            Cute and I guess it could be true if I was from America (or any other country that has basements as “mandatory”) but I’m not, so the comment about the basement is a bit off I guess.

            On the other hand since you are using it should I guess that you are the one living in his mothers basement or is it something you heard recently and repeat ever since because that makes you feel like you are one of the big boys?

            Also let me finish that with telling you that with about 1.5-1.6 bil you can get an account with a 6 months subscription, train a char, sell the char and get a new one account but I guess it’s too much for you to log in for 5 mins per day or so and apply a skill…

            August 23, 2013 at 7:32 pm
    2. Mord Fiddle

      “I don’t think CFC has stated independence from hi sec industry as a desirable goal.”
      See last December’s CSM minutes on nullsec. The nullsec reps were quite unified on this point.

      August 22, 2013 at 12:52 pm Reply
      1. Dinsdale Pirannha

        Yup, and why they are planning on crushing T2 industry in high sec, and giving null sec huge advantages to T2 industry. All this talk of ice mining, moon goo, and ratting in null is peanuts to the cash CCP is going to hand null sec with T2 industry.

        August 22, 2013 at 1:55 pm Reply
        1. samualvimes

          And why shouldn’t null sec have that industry? give a reason that does not give Tin-foil about nul-sec/RMT Cartels and subscription numbers. Solid gameplay based reasons.

          August 22, 2013 at 4:38 pm Reply
          1. Dinsdale Pirannha

            Why don’t you give a reason why they should have huge advantages, or even outright total control. Besides the canard of risk / return, which is complete tripe.

            August 22, 2013 at 5:55 pm
          2. Mord Fiddle

            There are no current restriction on nullsec engaging in T2 industry. Nullsec producers are free to compete in that arena and have a number of advantages in so doing, such as lower costs for high-value production inputs.

            So your real question here is why nullsec should not have a monopoly on T2 production as they currently enjoy with supercapitals.

            First of all, if every factory slot in nullsec were producing T2 ships, fittings and ammo non-stop, they wouldn’t be able to fill the current demand for those ships throughout New Eden. Remember, we’re talking everything T2: Exhumers, Jump Freighters, Stealth Bombers, Command Ships, Transports, Black Ops, HICs, HACs, Interceptors, the works. And don’t forget the T2 fittings and ammo. Current prices are on the high side and that’s with a veritable army of highsec, lowsec and nullsec industrialists cranking them out non-stop. Make them producible in nullsec alone and you introduce a drop in supply that will put T2 prices through the roof under the best of circumstances.

            And that is the best case scenario, assuming as it does that the nullsec alliances in control of T2 production would play nice and not attempt to use a T2 production monopoly strategically.

            Recall that nullsec has become a by-invitation-only proposition where a small minority of the player base determines who will be allowed access to that space. They have already used anti-competitive practices such as their monopoly on supercapital production and the Technetium cartel to enrich themselves at the rest of New Eden’s expense and to secure their lock on those monopolies. In practice, they see to their own strategic interests first and then sell limited surplus externally at higher prices.

            There is no reason to believe nullsecs oligarchs would behave differently if handed a T2 production monopoly. Sov holding alliances could ensure their own pilots had first pick of nullsec’s limited output of T2 ships, with a second share of inventory purchased and stockpiled against future need. In such a case, only the dregs of nullsec’s already limited T2 production capacity would see the outside of sov nullsec, and then at inflated prices.

            Permitting nullsec a monopoly on T2 production would hamstring the economy of New Eden and ruin play for anyone not benefiting from that monopoly.

            August 22, 2013 at 7:23 pm
          3. samualvimes

            What you’ve said makes a lot of sense and I agree that noone should be handed a mechanical monopoly. supercaps makes sense as it’s something that can’t be used in hi anyway.

            What I do believe though is they should be able to make what they use if they have the starting materials. Not necessarily just for T2 but they should be able to use what they produce from moons etc where they are rather than outsourcing to hi-sec and having to be dependent on it. This is more of an industrial boost in null sec. maybe not give them infinite (unless they work infinitely hard to provide themselves i.e a scaleable system that gets more and more costly/time consuming a la A pos system that doesn’t kick anyone in the head to use it) but enough that they can either produce the majority of their T1 OR their T2 etc

            August 22, 2013 at 8:25 pm
          4. Dinsdale Pirannha

            Right….Sorry, did I miss there being a prohibition of null sec putting up POS’s in with manufacturing arrays? Or actually utilizing the order of magnitude increase in R&D and mfg slots that was handed null a few months ago?

            I ran the T2 manufacturing division for my old corp when we lived in null, before the russians and PL came knocking. It ran just fine, thanks very much.

            Currently, Null has the total capability to produce just as much T2 items as they want. The players there simply decide that they can make far more ISK / hour doing other activities, like rat, moon goo mine, and run anom’s.

            What people like the goon economic cabal and their cohorts inside CCP want to do is ignore those facts, and hand null sec total control of T2 production.

            August 23, 2013 at 6:34 am
          5. Droog

            Unstable war. Sov instability. Power projection. Diplomatic dependence.

            August 28, 2013 at 2:58 pm
    3. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

      Actually, all one has to do to see that the Goons are trying to be independent of hi-sec is look at the VFK market… it is larger than Dodixie, and almost rivals Rens.

      August 22, 2013 at 4:28 pm Reply
    4. Droog

      Well, to be honest, the game wasn’t built for Coalitions either… in a time where 200 ships in a system created lag and instability on a hardware level… the idea of producing ammo to supplement thousands is just too large a scale.

      The meta outgrew the servers.

      The nullseccers who are jealous and envious of highsec cannot have it both ways.

      August 28, 2013 at 2:57 pm Reply
  7. karan garsk

    I believe the interdiction is a work around for their reputation.
    You go and kill/harass the Caldari Empire space (same ores/ice as Goon Renting space), kill some mining ships offer them then a quiet system they can do their what they are doing all day long.

    Tinfoil for everyone :)

    August 22, 2013 at 7:32 am Reply
    1. VH

      so far what I’ve seen of goon interdiction has been half-assed and laughable..they’re the butt of jokes among the highsec miners…which is pretty pitiful.

      August 25, 2013 at 6:41 am Reply
  8. Black n Blue

    “Thus, he writes, Goonswarm is in dire financial straits straits that
    mere R64 moons cannot remedy, which in turn means that Goonswarm’s
    existence is threatened”

    If I remember correctly he simply said they are used to living on a certain income that they are trying to make up for. I’m not going to go back and reread it so take that for what it’s worth.

    August 22, 2013 at 7:40 am Reply
  9. Luwc

    penis

    August 22, 2013 at 8:06 am Reply
  10. Spanky McPewPew

    The article is pretty much spot on but with one failed insight. This is *already* happening outside of the Fountain (and immediate surroundings). The Ore and Ice changes have finally made the risks of indy in Null just about worth it in even averagely policed areas. In the warzones? What’s the point?

    August 22, 2013 at 11:02 am Reply
    1. Mord Fiddle

      Not a failed insight so much as an absence of data. I’d love to see the numbers on mining and manufacturing trends in nullsec since Odyssey, but I don’t believe Dr. E. is sharing that at present.

      I agree that these are activities that require a degree of peace and security that Vale, the intended testing ground for Goonswarm rentals, in unlikely to provide. Hard to mine and make in PvP central.

      August 22, 2013 at 1:07 pm Reply
  11. I just do not know

    The funny thing is that after a while they want close PvP so they set up groups to kill their renters or one of the landlords out of the N3/PL group decides not to blue some of the renters. So you end up with them picking up easy kills as if they are elite. I have been told that PL have started doing this and I cannot believe that the CFC will not start doing this.

    August 22, 2013 at 12:44 pm Reply
    1. I just do not know

      What I meant to say is do as PL is doing with N3 renters, I have become aware through a couple of contacts that PL is not bluing up a number of more recent N3 renters who have a reasonable capital fleet, this will actually make CFC renting more attractive because while they are anti-rental and have this historic anti-renting attitude the leadership is very forceful and they will impose it strongly and you can see them actually policing it because it gives them their SRP, while the N3/PL grouping is more fragmented in terms of blue status and you cannot force PL to blue easy targets. Nulli and NCDOT need to be careful with this as it could upset their rental business and drive people to the CFC..

      August 22, 2013 at 9:03 pm Reply
  12. Cyno V

    If they want to rent out systems best they not go out harrassing other alliances renters with the upcomming Black op’s deployments, this will not encourage the PL/NC. renters to swap sides and rent from Goons but to go cloaky camp them instead.

    August 22, 2013 at 2:34 pm Reply
    1. lalala

      PL/NC renter space is a wet dream for black op gangs. where else can you drop 300+ systems in 7 different regions.

      August 22, 2013 at 4:16 pm Reply
  13. Gevlon is God

    EN24 needs more Gevlon goblin articles instead of this shit. The revolution has begun!

    August 22, 2013 at 2:46 pm Reply
    1. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

      Goblin is an idiot of the first rate! He would have been better off staying in WoW as that retarded game suits his mentality well. He absolutely has no idea what Eve really is at it’s core. The amusement park he keeps pushing for would kill Eve.

      August 22, 2013 at 4:17 pm Reply
      1. goblin go back to wow

        His advice on financial matters shouldn’t be trusted and isn’t sound. He doesn’t even understand what opportunity cost is.

        August 22, 2013 at 4:27 pm Reply
      2. Dikreathz

        well he did say like the carebear goons are doing that now, he did say indy is good, null is caslling for indy to replace tech income drain since the nerf hmmm sneaky say what? go play black ops console jocky

        August 28, 2013 at 4:35 pm Reply
        1. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

          The core of Eve is that you can do what you want… murder, steal, revenge,scam, and all the other things you wish you could do in the real world but are stopped by the law.

          August 28, 2013 at 4:53 pm Reply
  14. youhaa

    ofc, Goons renting space…..500M deposit hmm? ^^

    August 22, 2013 at 3:04 pm Reply
  15. Just a thought

    Why the hell would anyone rent from goons? All you have to do is join on of the many scrub CFC alliances(which is not hard) and you get access to tons of space. Like paying to be a scrub when you can be the real deal scrub.

    August 22, 2013 at 4:15 pm Reply
    1. angang

      This will probably become near impossible now because they want renters, not more members. Those days are gone.

      August 22, 2013 at 4:38 pm Reply
  16. Brubs

    Outside of the targets any goon renter would provide, the problem with renter empires is that they will only last until the renters decide to stop paying en masse and the rentors are left high and dry.

    I renters union would be a fantastic addition to the game and ultimately hold massive leverage over any rentor empires.

    August 22, 2013 at 4:36 pm Reply
    1. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

      I can’t wait till I can blow up Goon renters and harvest their juicy, delicious tears. I’ve got a feeling that my corp will be having a permanent office near their space. I do hope they carry a large number of officer and deadspace mods.

      August 22, 2013 at 4:44 pm Reply
  17. Angang Ostus

    Excellent article! These are really exciting developments! Months ago I was writing in the forums about how F&F needs to happen and is the next evolution of emergent content in EVE. I didn’t realize it had already been imagined and had proponents like The Mittani! A populated nullsec would be so wonderful for EVE. And I love the idea of serfdom in GSF. Social stratification like that is totally in character for them and great content. It also gives other coalitions something to compare themselves to and emulate, denounce, etc. Of course if they make a habit of preying on their renters I don’t think they’ll have many renters, but I’m sure they’ll find a middle ground. Makes me want to resub!!

    August 22, 2013 at 4:47 pm Reply
    1. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

      Goons preying on them, PL dropping supers on them, N3 BLOPS hot-dropping them, the life of a Goon renter will be miserable indeed.

      August 22, 2013 at 4:50 pm Reply
    2. Droog

      As much as the CFC can brainstorm such an awesome idea as F&F, the intellectual property of such an idea would not be only contained in CFC, nor do I think the CFC will be able to pull it off based on their reputation.

      In short, they burned their bridge too early. They would have to meta some alt corps to heavily recruit nullsec industrialists that are not “pubbies” in order to pull it off, which would simply be the same people who did not want to “sully their status” with alt monikers of separate accounts.

      Which would mean they would only be putting on a show of accomplishing what they set out to do, similar to what a street magician does with a plant to amuse the crowds and convince them to give their money over.

      However, it would provide content as anyone who would want to harass the CFC or Goons specifically would be able to hit them in the pocket by harassing their renters. Which would force Goons/CFC to protect their wallets by protecting their “serfs” which would in turn change the very fabric of Goon mentality.

      Which could be fun.

      August 28, 2013 at 2:35 pm Reply
  18. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

    I am considering this move by the Goons to be a “Blue Chip” opportunity. I can’t wait until they have it all set up. Oh the joy of the mighty BLOPS “Hot Drop O’clock” on retarded, bling fit, pubbie ships!!!

    August 22, 2013 at 4:48 pm Reply
  19. Angang Ostus
    August 22, 2013 at 4:59 pm Reply
  20. Provi Miner

    And everyone keeps missing the point, while only briefly mentioned in the article. Goons have to change the culture of the line members and interdictions are not a positive move IMO.

    August 22, 2013 at 5:34 pm Reply
    1. Thomas

      They could be though. Can you imagine what the industrialists would think of being given advance warning of the next one ahead of the market, and being right next to the only untouched sources? And maybe a year down the line even being involved in deciding what to interdict next

      August 23, 2013 at 12:09 am Reply
      1. distant-observer

        well. if I could do as I please, rent access to a decent system with decent belts / anoms , ability to set up a pos and do my thing, I think Goonspace is actually pretty nice. the deeper in their territory the better. BUT, so is basically any space for rent out there. NC. , PL… and tbh because most goons are stupid lemmings with no respect and conduct whatsoever, I would think twice about renting from them. just because they dont deserve my ISK

        August 24, 2013 at 6:37 pm Reply
  21. Thomas

    So following this logic, should we expect a ‘new’ initiative several months down the road from the goons that ties renters closer to an alliance roll if not in name (for example a very detailed package of incentives to provide for the CFC and other ‘opportunities’ to be more heavily involved in CFC operations)

    August 23, 2013 at 12:07 am Reply
  22. VH

    most industrialists view gankers of goonish persuasion as low life leeches…by definition the successful industrialist don’t need anyone to be successful princes of isk….goons have well earned rep as scammers and gankers without honor, anyone falling for their bs deserves to lose everything they have.

    August 25, 2013 at 6:35 am Reply
  23. Que

    Dear god, an actual well-written article? On EveNews24? Egads man! You’re out of style!
    Very interesting and well-written, you are to be congratulated, sir

    August 26, 2013 at 9:40 pm Reply

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