Just kidding. But if there’s an opportunity to poke fun at the GSF, compare them to Band of Brothers, then you gotta jump on that opportunity, right?

I don’t really care if Goonswarm starts renting space or not. I’m not invested in the Goonswarm Cultural Purity agenda. I figure if there are large tracts of unused nullsec, then might as well make them useful and earn a few iskies from it as well. It’s no secret that the big alliances and coalitions own far more space than they need. This isn’t the fault of any of those alliances, it’s simply a problem with sovereignty nullsec not having economic balance. Groups need to control more than they can use, simply to get access to moons, which are what keep the coalition machines fed. As it turns out, as of Odyssey, moon income alone isn’t cutting it. So what other incomes can be gained from space that isn’t being effectively utilized?

By now everybody knows that Goonswarm Federation is going to start renting out constellations in their regions. This would seem to go against all previous statements that a) renting is bad, b) BoB was a terrible renting empire, and c) Goonswarm will never become BoB.

There are several reasons for the Goonswarm flip-flop (let’s just call it what it is.) And there are several differences between the BoB version of a rental empire, and what is envisioned as the Goonswarm version of the rental empire.

Let’s talk differences first. The term renter has a much different meaning now than it did in 2007. Band of Brother renters were forced allies. They were expected to pay for that “privilege.” They were expected to help in defense (hell, often they were left alone to defend without help from BoB.) They were often used as cannon fodder in wars. In essence, they were treated terribly and were expected to appreciate being treated terribly.

If the CFC existed in 2007, Gentleman’s Agreement would be considered a renter, would be paying for their space in Vale and would be defending that space without Goonswarm assistance. Hell, Gentleman’s Agreement would have been expected, ordered, to help in the War in Fountain. CFC renter-ally losses in that war would have outnumbered GSF losses, because under the BoB-model renter-allies were expected to do most of the dirty work for their landlord.

Of course, none of that is the case. Gentleman’s Agreement is an almost equal partner in the CFC. Goonswarm has rallied to help defend Gentleman assets when threatened. Goonswarm were the largest participants in their Fountain war. Goonswarm did not sit back and let their coalition partners do their dirty work. Goonswarm gets their hands as dirty as everyone else. The CFC is an actual coalition. And yes, Goonswarm has more say in coalition policy than anyone else, but they don’t outright ignore the concerns of their partners. The CFC is NATO. ‘Merica has the loudest voice, the bigger vote, but every partner still has their voice, still has some weight in proceedings.

Renting in 2013 is a different beast. For everybody. All of the alliances treat their renters much differently than Band of Brothers ever did. Renters get their space. They are expected to pay their fees. And that’s it. That is the extent of their role. They aren’t expected to defend their territory. They aren’t expected to help in offensive activities. They can just do what they do best with little interference from their overseers. What a renter is expected to do is earn ISK.

Consider what happened when all of NCDot’s renter sovereignty was lost last month. NCDot (and friends, Pandemic Legion) dropped everything to pull their renter empire from the fire. In a monumental and quite amazing effort they restored all of that sovereignty inside of 48 hours. The renters had to do nothing. When a pipe bursts in your suite, you expect the landlord to fix it, the landlord shouldn’t expect you to do so. That is what renting is in 2013. A far cry different than it was in 2007 under Band of Brothers. Goonswarm will be following this new model. The renter rent, pays their ISK, the landlord manages and protects the property.

As for the reasons to rent. Basically it comes down to ISK and the ability to defend CFC territory. One cannot adequately defend if one doesn’t have adequate ISK. And defense is going to come down to caps and supercaps, lots of them. If you thought proliferation was a problem pre-2013, that problem is about to escalate ten-fold. NCDot and friends are building an inordinate number of new supercaps. This of course is a threat to CFC sovereignty, thus the CFC has to counter by increasing its own cap and supercap programs. All of this new manufacturing requires great deals of ISK. Not only do you need to have enough of these very expensive ships to field on the front line, you need an adequate supply of spares ready to cover losses.

Goonswarm Financial has been pushing for a renter program since 2011. The Mittani has always resisted strongly that idea. What changed his mind? The dropping of the NCDot renter alliance. Mainly the 400B ISK that was stolen. That money amounted to half a month’s rent from their programs. NCDot is earning 800B ISK per month from renters. That’s what opened The Mittani’s eyes. The vast amount of ISK that he has been leaving on the table.

Consider Fountain. The R64s that the CFC captured will result in 250B ISK per month in income. That war cost the CFC over 1T ISK to prosecute. It will take at least six months of production out of Fountain to recover those costs. With renters, those costs could be recovered in under two months.

The CFC will start out slow with their new program, ostensibly called the Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere.) They’ll rent out a single constellation, likely in Vale of the Silent, to test the rental waters. See how the CFC reacts to it in the field. See how renters react to it. Build some word of mouth on the CFC as a responsible landlord (which also means that CFC leadership have outlawed all rental scams effective immediately.) There’s also the possibility that it will generate some fun small-gang warfare. Not between us and renters, but between us and those who might want to screw with our renters. More fights are always a bonus.

It also means our enemies do not get a free pass to earn. The entire southwest is on the radar now. Delve. Querious. Period Basis. We’ll take more moons, rent the remaining property. Deny NCDot and other enemies the ability to earn more ISK, from moons and rental property. There are more wars on the horizon. Deny ISK. Take ISK. That is the name of the game.

So that’s the general scoop on the CFC and renters. It’s nothing I have a problem with. It’s probably good for nullsec, for the time being. Given the economic imbalances of this area of space, renters are the only way to ensure that space is most effectively utilized.

Poetic Stanziel

You can read more of Poetic Stanziel’s opinions at his Poetic Discourse blog.

Other recommended Poetic Stanziel’s Posts:

82 Comments

  1. kees

    aww Poetic Stanzie did bob blow up ur region and kick u out…. even after all these years i sense the butthurt is still strong :p

    August 12, 2013 at 10:10 am Reply
    1. Fartolio

      No matter his butthurt, seems BoB is still gone. And insists to remain gone, no matter how loud his actuall… errrrr ex-members tend to yell.

      August 12, 2013 at 10:37 am Reply
  2. none

    Yeah, ISK opened Mittani’s eyes, lol. RMT is bad, mkay…

    August 12, 2013 at 10:22 am Reply
  3. none

    “There’s also the possibility that it will generate some fun small-gang warfare.”

    FYI renters always dock/pos up with neutral in local. The attitude of not giving fights (defending) your systems is spreading like disease in 0.0, too many times I have heard the following “we don’t give fights, because there will be more people coming to have fights and we can not rat safely”, wtf is that?

    August 12, 2013 at 10:31 am Reply
    1. Just Checkin'

      That is either new guys or renters who are not in 0.0 to PvP but to rat.
      If you want them to PvP then remove the rent and tell them to guard said system/systems.
      The people who rent 0.0 space are most likely not PvPiers. They are there just to make isk…

      August 12, 2013 at 4:30 pm Reply
      1. Tim

        Yup. And engaging small gangs in PvP is a bad idea for ratters. The small gangs likely want PvP, so if they know they can get it there, they’ll come back. It’s the same reason they tell you not to feed the seagulls at a beach, or pigeons in the high street.

        August 12, 2013 at 4:36 pm Reply
  4. Necromonger

    finaly a balanced article to read instead of a propaganda piece /bow

    Remember that CFC is running a dread program to counter the massive super cap from PL/NCdot as we speak.
    Dreads are easy to replace, much better then a titan / super cap, they have great insureance, and dropping 500 dreads will be crazy fun :)
    We are also running a cap program where every member gets free skill book and carrier so within a year the CFC can drop a monster fleet to counter PL / NCdots super cap fleet with ease.

    it has to be said that there is many resistance about renting among our ranks….
    many goon members had quite a nice income from scamming, altough we are still alowed to scam :)
    We are forbidded to scam with rental programs.

    it sucks but it seems its just the way Eve needs to be played in 2013 :(

    August 12, 2013 at 10:32 am Reply
    1. 404 Not Found

      “We are forbidded to scam with rental programs.”
      Oh…well that puts all my worries at ease….SAID NO ONE EVER!!

      August 12, 2013 at 6:51 pm Reply
  5. Dennis the Dreamer

    Difference between renting you say? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.. its a freakin duck. This duck stings though.

    August 12, 2013 at 10:49 am Reply
  6. eve pilot

    well done for showing CFC enemies how to part cripple their financial recovery by just keeping those R64 towers in in fountain just keep them in RF 250bil goes down the plughole. and multiple fleets have to be kept in fountain to protect them from continual RF and those fleets will be much needed somewhere else.

    August 12, 2013 at 11:01 am Reply
    1. observer

      agreed when goons rivals have to realise CFC wont be beaten militarily but financially by striking directly at those financial sectors that make them isk that’s what will weaken goons and CFC faster than any supercap blob could do. once the goon & CFC SRP plan goes into free fall because of financial constraints so will their pilots . and the campaign striking at their financial systems would only take 2 months max for them to start to feel the burn.

      August 12, 2013 at 11:10 am Reply
    2. Poetic Stanziel

      Because no spies on the GSF forums?

      August 12, 2013 at 12:13 pm Reply
    3. Arrendis

      Because nobody would have thought ‘hey, they took those moons because they need money. If we keep those moons reinforced, they won’t get money’, right?

      August 12, 2013 at 7:08 pm Reply
  7. Poetic Stanziel

    “NCDot renter sovereignty” should actually be Nulli renter sovereignty. All those people in the east, they sort of blur together after awhile.

    August 12, 2013 at 12:12 pm Reply
    1. ---

      The income goes to both of them and NC. is the more prominent/competent of the two so “NCDot renter sovereignty” is probably the correct term.

      August 12, 2013 at 1:09 pm Reply
  8. droljica

    Well done gontards. It took you only five years to figure out how to easy earn isk, bob-like :)

    August 12, 2013 at 1:06 pm Reply
  9. Cold as ice

    Its ok that they rent.. whos really gonna rent from them? N3 isnt leaving the area..

    August 12, 2013 at 1:17 pm Reply
    1. Barkaway

      Their biggest problem is that they, through the years, have scammed and cheated so many ppl and build up a rep that thats how they roll, thats gonna be mighty hard to convince ppl that they are nice guys now..
      OFC there are still alot of desperate ppl in the game, but i would never trust them.

      August 12, 2013 at 3:58 pm Reply
      1. Wels

        Well, people still fall in droves to various scams, so though theres a reputation, It seems very plausible that there will be a bunch of people that either have not heard / not care and will jump into the program.
        Else, no one would still fall to the scams.

        August 12, 2013 at 6:53 pm Reply
  10. podman

    See Goon read Scam

    August 12, 2013 at 1:19 pm Reply
  11. Fletch

    The sad thing is most people rent space to bot in relitive safety. CCP should make the landlord responsible for what happens in rented space. If illegal activity is discovered in rented space then the Landlord should be accountable.

    August 12, 2013 at 1:49 pm Reply
    1. reti

      that is stupid, its not players responsibility to police CCP policies..

      August 12, 2013 at 3:18 pm Reply
      1. Just Checkin'

        But aren’t you responsible for what happens in house?

        August 12, 2013 at 4:21 pm Reply
        1. Arrendis

          Because you own it. CCP owns the servers, the software, and the data. Standard MMO TOS: everything on their machines is theirs.

          August 12, 2013 at 7:10 pm Reply
        2. Nub Pubbie

          If you rent an apartment and start cooking meth, you go to jail, not your landlord.

          August 12, 2013 at 7:55 pm Reply
    2. check it out

      Look at the name of PLs renter alliance very closely.

      August 12, 2013 at 3:19 pm Reply
  12. Reti

    Aren’t rental empires easy to harass… if you just put some of your guys in the rental space and have them harass the renters, afk cloak, do hit and runs, bubble gates, ect ect it will make the renters leave….

    Perhaps the CFC should focus on disruption of the enemy rental program, instead of just making one of their own.

    Or, am I totally wrong?

    August 12, 2013 at 3:17 pm Reply
    1. Forgive__Me

      ‘disruption of the enemy rental program’ doesn’t get ISK into CFC’s wallet, on the contrary … 😉

      August 12, 2013 at 3:19 pm Reply
      1. Reti

        Sometimes denying income can be just as good as gaining… look at worker harass in starcraft.

        August 12, 2013 at 3:26 pm Reply
    2. Reti

      Honestly, wouldn’t harassment of a rental program be simpler and more fun than grinding moons and sov??

      August 12, 2013 at 3:21 pm Reply
      1. OhGOD

        No, because renter tears are bland, when compared to say, TEST or N3, tears.

        August 13, 2013 at 9:14 pm Reply
    3. Reti

      in fact, I think the Goons are making their rental program even more vulnerable by isolating it in specific constellations and systems. Means if you want to disrupt it, you have less space to patrol.

      Also, harassment could be easily kept up by using cloaked carriers or orcas to re-supply PVPers in hostile space. Or even drop small towers around.

      August 12, 2013 at 3:25 pm Reply
      1. Arrendis

        Because the CFC can’t possibly find small towers, right?

        August 12, 2013 at 7:11 pm Reply
        1. Reti

          I said small towers because they are disposable. The idea is that you a way to resupply your harassment team. Maybe towers are not the answer, but you still have addresses my real questions… why not focus on harassment?

          August 12, 2013 at 7:58 pm Reply
          1. Arrendis

            Force projection into the East is difficult at best. Granted, it wouldn’t necessarily take a lot to be able to field SiegeFleet-style operations into N3 rental space, but doing so would likely foment a war while both sides are a little worn from Fountain.

            In a month? Two? You may well see exactly that sort of thing happening from a couple of ‘Goons will be Goons’ squad deployments.

            But at the same time ‘why not focus on harassment’?

            Why not do both?

            August 12, 2013 at 8:08 pm
    4. Poetic Stanziel

      If that rental “empire” in one constellation, sure, easy to harass.

      If that rental empire consists of thirty of forty constellations scattered across all of CFC space … then no, not all that easy to harass. You can harass one small group, the rest will continue on fine.

      August 13, 2013 at 2:41 am Reply
  13. Provi Miner

    LOL nice spin. No dice though: What does every highsec corp/individual think when the terms goon and rent are together? SCAM. Ok honesty time. A: the culture of an organization is hard to change. Goons have a culture of shitting on anyone not them. RENTERS are not goons and will never be considered them. B: What is the chance a gang of goons flying through someplace see a nice shiny rattlesnake and don’t blow it up? 0.00000000 C: consider what happens if the goon line members get bored? yep they will “accidently” shoot some light blues “oh my over view was not set right”

    In order for this to work Goons have to change not only every single potential “renters” perception of them. But they also have to change their entire culture and that hard to do with people who think doing nothing (blue balling) is more fun then fighting. Goons want nothing to do with small gang pvp. Heck when they come to provi its 100 plus, who does that? all in all shit post that is intended to make people change. How about change goon first then change peoples view of them that might work, this idea of changing people perception of goon first without proof of a different goon is a waste of time.

    August 12, 2013 at 3:46 pm Reply
    1. Rah

      I think you have a pretty biased view of the goons. Sure they are known for scams, but they are also known for protecting their assets. Renters are long term assets. I’m currently renting, but am already considering a move to goon rental once it’s up since I don’t feel secure under my current owners. I’m confident that goons would protect their assets well.

      Don’t worry goons. We’ll be your new technetium!

      August 12, 2013 at 4:34 pm Reply
      1. Provi Miner

        my post said nothing about protection from external threats, thats the least of your worries lol

        August 12, 2013 at 5:47 pm Reply
      2. OhGOD

        We’ll be more than glad to have ya, I’m sure.

        August 13, 2013 at 8:39 pm Reply
    2. Poetic Stanziel

      “Goons have a culture of shitting on anyone not them.”

      The rest of the alliances in the CFC would disagree.

      August 13, 2013 at 2:37 am Reply
      1. Billbo

        pot kettle black o?

        August 13, 2013 at 3:58 am Reply
        1. Poetic Stanziel

          Make sense much?

          August 13, 2013 at 3:59 am Reply
          1. Solai

            No. He does not.

            August 13, 2013 at 7:26 pm
          2. Lawful-Insanity

            Really? Well for example i read a post few weeks back,how cfc helps members get in supers. And even provides free faction mods for fitting. Well a buddy i know in razor. ( part of cfc. And equal to gsf, as stated many times by cfc members) got zero help buying or fitting his said super. He had to fully find hull and fittings and was denied any help from razor of the, we are all equal cfc.

            August 13, 2013 at 7:30 pm
          3. OhGOD

            I’m pretty sure those kinds of subsidies are handled on the alliance level – not the coalition level.

            August 13, 2013 at 8:38 pm
      2. Provi Miner

        Let me be a bit more clear, I should have said CFC not goons. But the facts still remain CFC members have a known history of shooting “blues” for fun and tear gathering. Thats the sort of stuff that has to change with the CFC first before they can expect peoples view of them to change. BTW just so you know CFC/Goons are exactly the same thing no diff in the eye’s of 90% eve that is not CFC/Goon.

        August 14, 2013 at 2:29 am Reply
  14. Don'tDrinkTheKool-Aid

    CFC is not NATO.

    Try to secede and you will shortly learn why.

    August 12, 2013 at 3:53 pm Reply
    1. Poetic Stanziel

      Prove it!

      August 13, 2013 at 2:44 am Reply
  15. as a CFC member, I honestly would not rent from us. It sounds like a scam to me.

    August 12, 2013 at 5:04 pm Reply
    1. Solai

      Well, let’s examine the context. We see evidence that renting provides a huge income. The potential extra income goes on top of pre-existing income methods like moons. Entities like NCdot use this massive amount of ISK to fund the most expensive ships, therefore providing a distinct strategic advantage.

      Meanwhile, CFC is potentially the most organized entity in Eve, historically possessing canny, aware and rigorous leadership.

      And despite seeing this persistent income advantage in their foes, the CFC *as a whole* decides: “Nah, screw the persistent, huge income potential – lets just mess around scamming for a month, by which time no one will fall for it anymore. It’ll be fun lol.”

      Sounds legit.

      August 13, 2013 at 7:25 pm Reply
      1. Pregnant Wombat

        Yeah you are right, but one other thing, being a huge entity like goons, you get scam issues where no one knows who is the actual guy to go to for renting a specific said system. You will also lose customers if you don’t help them defend. But hey take cloaky campers from my area to yours. I’ll be happy.

        August 13, 2013 at 11:16 pm Reply
  16. War anyone?

    Deny isk and take isk by grabbing moons EVERYWHERE, and renting the surrounding sov? Seems like you’re going to end up forcing everyone who wants to live in null sec to “participate” or get burned up cuz you’re providing income to a non-cfc alliance.

    If you’re not renting from us you’re aiding the enemy. ~GSF 2013

    August 12, 2013 at 5:54 pm Reply
  17. Independent

    “The CFC is NATO. ‘Merica has the loudest voice, the bigger vote, but
    every partner still has their voice, still has some weight in
    proceedings.”

    It is an interesting comparison. BUT NATO is no where near what it used to be. Just like US, Goonies had to fork-up all the isk and bribe half of EVE to win Fountain. For example, NATO ie US Paying Taliban to have supplies go in Afganistan, did not win them the war. Rather trillions of $$ and deficits wrecking the budgets, scalping entire carrier wings to save $$ and still have to retreat, even paying the Russians to do do evac. To whom they lost – to Taliban which is no where to be found, AND everywhere to be found. Paying coutries to be in NATO does not make NATO stronger. Entire ex-east block countries do not even have air-forces any more. Not a single plane. Why? Let US pay everything. LOL. That is not stronger, rather weaker. Makes general’s have salaries, nothing more.

    EVE Renting works if there is giant blue ball. If there is constant wars, skirmishes in empty spaces, will not work. Lets see how Goonies will run gauntlet protecting renters in the North – they cannot even protect their own, far less renters. N3/PL is different because they shown they can keep their house in order.

    Just look at yesterday, core CFC hard at work:

    http://blacklegion.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=19161446

    I wonder how renters will do better ?

    Another example – FA moved entire alliance to 3V8 to destroy independent Mordus Angels, and half year later and 500bil in losses they jumping ship and becoming renters LOL

    http://moa.eve-kill.net/

    GOONS RENTING IS SCAM TO KEEP ON MAKING ISK NO MATTER WHAT! HAVE FUN IN GAME, NOT PAYING SOMEONE ELSE’S MORTGAGE!

    August 12, 2013 at 6:33 pm Reply
    1. Arrendis

      Pssst. NATO, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization? Nobody gets paid to be in NATO.

      Now, let’s look at your claim that entire ‘ex-east block countries’ (by which, I’m assuming you mean entire countries that were geographically members of the former Eastern Bloc / Warsaw Pact) don’t have ‘a single plane’ and are leaving the defense of their skies to the US. Which ones are they?

      East Germany? Germany’s got an Air Force.
      Poland? Has an Air Force.
      Czechoslovakia? Czech Republic’s got an Air Force. Slovakia? Air and Air Defense Forces.
      Hungary? Air Force
      Romania? Yup, they have one, too.
      Bulgaria? They’re flying MiG-29s.
      Albania? Even they have an air force.
      Slovenia: Hell, little freaking Slovenia has at least one fixed-wing and one rotary-wing squadron.
      Bosnia? Air and Air Defense Forces
      Serbia? Also flying MiG-29s.
      Montenegro? Croatia? Air Forces in both of them.
      Moldova? Air and Air Defense Forces.
      Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania? All have air forces (Extremely small, but all include fixed-wing aircraft.)

      So let’s just say that your generalizations about NATO are, well, pretty well baseless and grounded in ignorance.

      EVE renting in recent months (we’ll just go with months, because I think years might be too much for you) clearly shows no ‘giant blue ball’ is necessary. N3/PL have shown they can keep their house in order – what, by retaking sov after it was lost across their entire rental empire? What makes you think the CFC can’t do that if it comes to it? You link to the RZR losses, but again: that’s one entity, not the CFC. And that’s one entity that didn’t think to get on the phone and say ‘hey, we’ve got a situation here, be aware of it’ but instead decided to handle things themselves.

      Just to continue the NATO comparison, that’s more or less the equivalent of Turkey saying ‘Oh, yeah, no it’s cool, we’re just not going to tell the rest of NATO that we’re gonna go deal with this Kurdistan problem from the dudes trying to break off into a separate nation with the guys in Syria and Iraq’. Doesn’t happen. Doesn’t mean Turkey has to ask permission, mind you, but because of operational obligations, you can be damned sure that when the Turkish military makes a move, NATO’s informed and is keeping tabs on the situation.

      This was not that.

      August 12, 2013 at 8:03 pm Reply
      1. Jimmy

        Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia and other ex-Yugoslav countries were never part of Warsaw Pact. Yugoslavia was a non-aligned state.

        August 14, 2013 at 9:37 am Reply
    2. OhGOD

      Your aching anus is evident.

      August 13, 2013 at 9:10 pm Reply
  18. War anyone

    “Cultural Purity Agenda” -taking nerd to the next level. Seriously, goons are the biggest try-hard nerds ever.

    August 12, 2013 at 7:04 pm Reply
  19. That guy.

    Nah, i’m just gonna come in my Cloaky nullified T3 and ‘AFK’ camp all day. Don’t get your hopes up.

    August 12, 2013 at 7:11 pm Reply
    1. Provi Miner

      if you are a renter do you still have to pay if you can’t earn because of that “That dude” ? Isn’t it the obligation of the landlord to get rid of pests?

      August 12, 2013 at 7:21 pm Reply
      1. Ur Stupid

        You can’t get rid of a cloaky camper, unless they are actually willing to fight. :)

        August 12, 2013 at 9:28 pm Reply
        1. daniL

          Funny how types that cry most about cloaky campers always come up with that: “they don’t want to fight”

          I personally had enough, trying to provoke the bears to fight! They always run and hide. So what are my options ?

          a) leave em be

          b) make em mad so they will fight you

          c) make em leave so hopefully someone with balls comes in and gives you the content you are after.

          And its not like constant harassment, I am after any fight. Fight = fun
          and red crosses = BORING
          Sadly eve is full of sheeps it not like it was before 2-3 years ago!

          You can blame BOB/ CFC or who ever comes in mind.

          Eve is not fun as it used to be! Because none is fighting!

          If you call that TiDi war we just had a fight, I truly feel sorry for you…

          August 13, 2013 at 6:13 pm Reply
      2. mr nobody

        Yes you pay if you are being camped or not. Its incredably difficult to remove a cloaky camper. It normally relies on the camper making a mistake

        August 12, 2013 at 10:45 pm Reply
        1. daniL

          if the landlord does thing right
          That clocky camper is alone and cannot afford to risk his ship to a trap or a ratting group!

          I landlords allow cyno-es hot-drops in renter’s space, they clearly did something wrong or chose the wrong space to rent out!

          August 13, 2013 at 6:01 pm Reply
        2. Solai

          Yep, unfortunately true. The CFC alliances are all brainstorming ways to deal with eventualities like the cloak campers. But there’s only so much that can be done about it.

          In the meantime, bare in mind that a canny landlord will do what it takes to keep their income secure. They don’t want the renter to be discouraged and leave, nor resentful and a liability. So the renter’s interests become the landlord’s interests, and a fair relationship is in everyone’s interest.

          August 13, 2013 at 7:09 pm Reply
  20. BOBOMGWHY

    As a newish player to eve ( i have been playing for 1.5 years now) Why the fuck are people still always talking about this BOB alliance. How big was their cock? And what kind of rectal trauma did it cause? For this “THEIR BOB!!” to go on for so long. Get over it, seek rape counselling and get your bleeding anus stitched up. Take your meds and recover. Life goes on.

    August 12, 2013 at 7:25 pm Reply
    1. troll

      You see if people forget BOB they’ll also forget GSF. It’s all about “Ego Booster II” for some leadership in order to “prove” their regular cannon fodder that they have been/are relevant. And everybody knows, Mittens without attention=Sad and irrelevant Mittens=Mittens without RMT throne.

      Bottom line, WTS Nyx, 2400€, call 1-800-GSF-MITTBOY

      August 12, 2013 at 7:47 pm Reply
    2. tara read

      Because BoB gave us the true Great War. BoB gave birth to what Goonswarm is today. Alot of rich history is in the tale of BoB and their effects on Eve are still felt today. As of now CFC have officially become BoB 2.0.

      It’s terribly ironic for those of us who were around to remember Goons as the underdog to the tyrannical machine that was BoB. Now they have become what they fought against.

      Except Goons aren’t unblemished lambs either. Quite the opppsite. Where BoB’s insulting amd treatment were direct, tactical, even downright soul crushing in opinion, Goonswarm has become the rich frat boy of Eve.

      Bob was the pissy rich uncle with hemeroids. Goonswarm is his acne ridden spoiled nephew.

      August 13, 2013 at 12:37 pm Reply
      1. d

        I believe the real problem with BOB was that CCP devs were routinely intervening on their behalf and that is where the real hate of BOB came from and the huge mistrust of anything CCP does in regard to Null sec space.

        Not that I have any love for the goons either but having seen the things I have seen happen (ie: attacking an undefended pos out of reinforce with no enemy in sight only to have the server crash, and when it came back up the enemy fleet was at the pos waiting for us to warp back in) I can understand why the goons are the way they are.

        August 13, 2013 at 4:14 pm Reply
  21. OHGODWHY

    OHGOD someone please disband GSF….they are just terribad, the CFC are just a bunch of jumped up egomaniac’s who wont fight unless they out number their enemies by at least 10,000 times…they are truly somethingawful.com

    August 12, 2013 at 9:25 pm Reply
  22. Mord Fiddle

    “NCDot is earning 800B ISK per month from renters. That’s what opened The Mittani’s eyes.”

    “That war cost the CFC over 1T ISK to prosecute. It will take at least six months of production out of Fountain to recover those costs.”

    So, Poetic is saying that the Mittani, spymaster extraordinaire, was completely in the dark as to how much money could be made renting systems – even with Nulli’s rates and occupied systems publicly listed. And nobody among Goonswarm’s self proclaimed economic-experts thought to run the numbers on Fountain’s R64 income potential before the shooting started to see if the war was affordable.

    Sounds to me like Poe is calling Goodswarm’s leadership a bunch of fiscally irresponsible chuckle-heads who screwed CFC’s economic pooch by starting a war they couldn’t afford for the thin gruel of Fountain’s R64 income. Now, their poor management decisions have driven CFC to such penury, that they must take on renters.

    Oh the humanity! It would make one weep. Harsh words, Poe. Very harsh indeed.

    August 12, 2013 at 10:10 pm Reply
    1. Poetic Stanziel

      We afforded the Fountain War with no problems. We could afford five more such wars. The CFC is not TEST.

      August 13, 2013 at 2:36 am Reply
      1. d

        Agreed, talking to high command types I always got the same reply about our srp funds, “we have plenty of isk, just get in fleets”

        August 13, 2013 at 4:05 pm Reply
      2. Mord Fiddle

        So, CFC doesn’t need the money. CFC is filthy rich. CFC has more ISK than god. CFC is perfectly capable of financing their supercapital build program without a single ISK of rental income.

        Assuming this is all true, financial need is not driving CFC to become a nullsec landlord for a bunch of carebears. In that case the driver for rental income is just part of a ‘no income streams left behind’ program, isn’t it? It isn’t that CFC needs to bring in renters and defend renter systems, but more ISK is always better and the pile of ISK CFC is sitting on simply can’t get high enough.

        Which would make 90% of your post a bunch of misdirection; all fluff and hooey meant make the Mittani’s flip-flop on renters go down a little easier with the hard core PvPers.

        Have I got that right? Just want to be clear as to what your really trying to say to us beyond, “CFC’s going into the nullsec rental business because it’s worth in ISK exceeds our moral reservation price.”

        August 13, 2013 at 5:37 pm Reply
        1. Solai

          Nice strawman.
          Being able to afford the war, and a bit more, does not make the coalition filthy rich, or comfortable with their buffer war chest. It’s ‘adequate for the moment.’ Surely you can tell the difference between ‘rich’ and ‘stable.’

          August 13, 2013 at 7:00 pm Reply
          1. Mord Fiddle

            “We could afford five more such wars” (see Poe’s response above).

            So, now you’re crying poverty – or at least claiming CFC is a coalition of modest means; able to make ends meet and with a petty cash fund to pay for the odd war, but otherwise living hand to mouth?

            OK – You guys go huddle up and let me know when you’ve got your stories straight. ‘Cause I’m getting whiplash from all the narrative changes.

            August 13, 2013 at 9:21 pm
          2. Solai

            Strawman.
            “Adequate” is not “hand-to-mouth.”
            Your narrative whiplash seems a bit self-inflicted.

            August 13, 2013 at 9:30 pm
    2. jötunn

      So…that 400 billion that was stolen was half of Nulli`s renter`s money for that month. CFC then comes up with this 400+400= 800 bila month and thinks this what N3 makes monthly in rent income. I think its way more then that. The 800 bil/month is what Nulli makes from its renters. You need to add the income of ALL the other N3 alliances. And do not forget, N3 has R64 moons to!!!
      So yeah, on the long run, N3 will get richer then the CFC with time…they better start invading NOW!!!

      August 13, 2013 at 4:21 pm Reply
  23. Dumbledore

    Next we hear is the Mittani marketed as a serious third party.

    August 12, 2013 at 10:38 pm Reply
    1. Urziel99

      He is a serious third party, if you’re in the CFC.

      August 13, 2013 at 5:08 am Reply
  24. TestGewn

    Conclusion:
    Goonswarm will rent to carebears.

    i like that

    August 13, 2013 at 10:43 am Reply
  25. Gunnaras Grinkevicius

    Gentleman’s Agreement is an almost equal partner in the CFC

    stopped reading there…

    August 13, 2013 at 3:05 pm Reply

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