PROVIDENCE

The below is taken from http://providenceregion.blogspot.nl/2013/07/critical-news-alert-of-sound-mind.html

At 03:00 on July 30th Of Sound Mind was stripped of blue standings from CVA and purged from OOG Provibloc services. Several hours latter after last ditched diplomatic attempts failed Of Sound Mind was reset again, this time to KOS for all of Provi Bloc.

Events leading up to this reset have been building over several months with Xavier XV, the executor of OF Sound Mind, becoming more and more tyrannical in diplomatic relations with neighboring allies. The final catalyst, while seemingly insignificant in itself tipped the flood of issues over the edge.

The event happened on the 25th of July in the Severance system of KBP while hunting a group of pirate macharials who are known to use neutral booster lokis. A Sev3rance fleet and a SOUND fleet engaged at the same time and members of the Sev3rance fleet tackled a loki that was neutral to them. It happened to be a CVA alt flying in the SOUND fleet. Cease fire was requested in local and done so. However a VOLT member in the Sev3rance fleet made a comment in local.

[22:45:32] Jenny Rims > severance, i am not red (Neutral Loki)
[22:45:57] b4dg3r Jenny Rims is blue
[22:46:03] b4dg3r > stop shooting
[22:46:08] Crumeth > kill the cunt (Uninvolved Individual)
[22:46:33] Leylla Gainsborought > lol#
[22:46:42] Heinrich Hoss > lol i stopped like 30 seconds ago
[22:46:44] Heinrich Hoss > y u so mad guise
[22:46:46] Heinrich Hoss > rage much
[22:46:47] Heinrich Hoss > 😀

Fire on the loki by Heinrich had stopped according to logs provided at 22:45:35

[2013.07.25 22:46:07 ] (combat) 14 to Jenny Rims[O I](Loki) – Valkyrie II – Hits

As a response to the comments XavierVE ordered Heinrich killed in local:

[22:46:55] XavierVE > Time to die, asshole

The kill order was a full minute and fifty two seconds after Heinrich had stopped firing. Heinrich was killed a minute latter at 22:48.

While the order to kill Heinrich was questionable it was not the end of the world. Several FCs within the bloc have voiced they likely would have made similar decisions and in this matter where supportive of XavierVE’s command decisions. The problems begin in XavierVE’s next comment in local.

22:50:34] XavierVE > Heinrich, send me one of your diplos, so I can tell him to put his dick up his own ass. Fly safe

Normal policy on blue on blue incidents is to reimburse the loss. Initial diplomacy seemed to start out cordially (Ignoring the comments in local) with XavierVE notifying Volt Diplos why he had made the call and a firm refusale to reimburse. VOLT diplos pushed, requesting the navy omen being reimbursed and requesting a apology over his local comments and tone. After this point things start to get heated with VOLT threating to name SOUND a public enemy and XavierVE calling VOLT a pile of shit.

With mails flying around it is at this point that diplomats from Sev3rance and CVA get involved trying to calm the situation down. Early Sunday (28th) morning Equinox officially requested that SOUND repay the omen. In other discussions he was growing concerned with XaviersVE’s attitude towards other diplomats and was concerned that he was going ot have to expell SOUND from the powerbloc because of XavierVE.

Xavier firmly refused

From: XavierVE
Sent: 2013.07.29 22:00
To: Equinox Daedalus, June Ting,
Hello Equinox,
With all the shit-slinging and drama that VOLT has stirred up over our killing of Heinrich for attacking a neutral alt of CVA’s who was in our fleet, we’re going to decline repaying the Omen Navy Issue to them. He does not deserve a reimbursement and we will not be providing one.
And yes, we know what that means.
XavierVE
Alliance Leader
Of Sound Mind

In response Equi made the decision to request that SOUND return sov for which they would be fairly compensated. At the same time a notice was sent out to CVA CEOs to make sure corporations were prepared for a Sov War campaign incase it came to this. A internal mail was leaked to SOUND which was than forwarded to Equi.

Xaviers final response:

From: XavierVE
Sent: 2013.07.29 22:47
To: Equinox Daedalus, June Ting,
Hola Equinox,
We’ve done nothing to provoke the situation. With hostiles on field, I defended my fleet from someone while he smacked at us in local. I would do the same in any situation, no matter who was aggressing. We do not believe in subsidizing bad behavior.

Our sin is defending a neutral from a hostile, shit-talking, resident of a holder alliance in Providence. That’s not the Providence I remember from being a rank newbie to EVE, it’s not the Providence that Aralis would be proud of. We have opened our space to neutrals, only to see them shot at again and again when we roam around by “blues.” You are going to reset and attack us for defending our fleet and not rewarding people shooting at neutrals.

What you call abrasive to everyone in leadership roles, I call talking plainly. You don’t have to guess with anything my leadership team has ever said. We tell your our position, bluntly. If you want a cadre of weak-kneed leadership types afraid to speak their minds, so be it. It’s just not who we are.

Our position is as it always has been. That we should be left alone to practice NRDS in Providence with the KOS checker as a loyal ally, as we have done for years… and that people who shoot at neutrals in fleets be given no coddling when they whine about the consequences of that act. I’d argue with you extensively about this, but I know your mind is made up.

It is your right to reset us and attack us if that’s what you want to do. We will be in our home until our home is no longer accessible.

Best wishes,
XavierVE
Alliance Leader
Of Sound Mind

Four hours latter SOUND were set to neutral by CVA and purged from provibloc voice comms and forums. While standings had been reset to neutral and SOUND had lost most access (they retained regional intel access and access to the internal leadership diplo channel) they had not been made KOS as there were hopes that there still might be a diplomatic solution. However after the station name change was noted and the banner on their killboard was changed showing that they had an internal spy who was screenshoting comments made by CVA members KOS admins made the decision to finalize the reset and SOUND were set KOS.

As of this moment Operations are happening in the area to remove usability and assets from SOUND systems. All Provibloc members are encouraged to attend CTAs announced in P-Fleet.

Altogether these recent turn of events have sadden a large number of provi-bloc members. Many have fond memories of working with SOUND FCs and members. In the end, a post from another provi-bloc executor probably sums everything up best.

For the record I must state that SOUND are generally great guys, they have done a lot of good around Providence and certainly deserved their place among holders. They have and will always have my respect for their tireless efforts. However, when it comes to the past (few) week(s) there seems to have been a steady decline in diplomatic relations and civility. I was not there to witness it all personally, but from the logs I have seen, the language used by Xavier was fairly colorful. Since then they have blatantly posted screen shots of secure forums on their website, they have renamed their stations to taunt us further…

It isn’t that we don’t want to back down… I, and everyone else in leadership, want a peaceful diplomatic solution… However, the choice isn’t ours. This escalated in such a way that the ball is now in Xaviers corner… CVA and VOLT diplos did all they could to prevent this… and I still wish they would have succeeded… However, it seems SOUND has their mind set on war… why? no clue…

If SOUND wants this to end… then they need to return to the table, sit down, and negotiate in a civil manner. They claim that all they want is respect… but the thing is… the way Xavier spoke to his allies… is respect-less… so if they want the respect that they deserve for all their efforts in Providence (because yes, they do deserve respect for that) then they need to, like I said, return to the table, sit down and negotiate in a civil manner. CVA and VOLT are not evil, I know them to be fairly reasonable and respectful… however, when met with a respect-less attitude and verbal abuse for days without end… what else can they do apart from upping the bet? Apart from issuing the ultimatum that was issued…

So, sadly, unless SOUND returns to the table with a clear intent to end the fighting… no one in this will back down…

—–

Inserted below is a forum speech from Equinox Daedalus (CVA exec) regarding the issue with Of Sound Mind alliance:

I’ll post a few things here as it was a busy day yesterday and last night when I got home and was helping to shoot boring structures!!!

1. CVA has been the defacto “”arbitrator”” and “”voice”” in Providence for many years (when we have had control). Every alliance in Providence that has sov is given it with a handshake deal and the general agreement and understanding that:

You are accepting sov under conditions where you can’t simply do whatever you wish. There are general rules and policies in place for all of Providence that are to be followed to the best of your abilities while you are here, and that any issues are worked out with cva becoming the final arbitrator because someone has to be. CVA in return shows up (usually as the top force) for most every action we have knowledge of important ops or ctas, as well as working with building your alliance up and helping your alliance out in other ways (unified doctrines, coordination with others, force multipliers, unified voice, unified kos list, forums and many other programs that Providence has) in the hopes of building a great providence community.

2. If you think of yourself as a pet, that is what you will become. While it is correct that people will always say “”CVA and pets”” or “”CVA and Providence”” and “”Providence pets”” etc etc you should understand that CVA tries not to promote this and does not believe in this. We work with people in regards to getting them equal shares and parts and good moons and we don’t take for simply allowing you to be in Providence. There are no rental fees, there are no fees for being blue. There are no massive CTA’s and fleet requirements to join Providence and become a part of the area and eventually become a holder. All we have ever done is given people a chance to become better. CVA doesn’t put alts in your alliances to spy on you, CVA doesn’t make you all join a “”Providence alliance”” to be here. You’re all given freedom and autonomy with basic general guidelines of Providence policies that allow you to make your own decisions as to how/what/why you are in providence and what you want to do.

3. The issues between SOUND and VOLT are small. Much like in life however, a grain of sand that gets into an oyster can make a pearl, or things can end up with just a stone that is annoying and eventually causes issues. There have been many chances on both sides to become a pearl, unfortunately it seems that it only formed and became a kidney stone. I have always tried to be fair and make decisions that both sides could live with and save face upon, but at the end of the day SOUND did not want to compromise upon what they thought was unfair to them. But you can also see that there has been and there are always options open and always ways to solve things and save face, of which I can give 2 examples :

A few months ago a foolish VOLT member accidently placed a JF on contract publically for 0 isk when it was meant to be contracted to a specific party. Xavier saw the freighter on contract, and accepted it which is his right to do as it was a public contract. VOLT contacted him and after a bit asked to have it returned for a reward (much like finding a wallet full of cash on the street). and he refused, saying he would sell it back to them at a fair market price. after a bit of back and forth I was asked to mediate this, and asked Xavier for a favor, return the freighter for good faith and get the reward that they offered (which was 1 bil isk, not exactly chump change) and he steadfast refused. Eventually he said he would take 3 bil for it, so i personally paid for the jf and gave it back to volt.

Flash forward, to some random VOLT member, some months later, going rogue and destroying a faction fit blue mach. VOLT immediately kicked and fully reimbursed the blue, no questions asked, no drama, no complaining except by their wallets.

Now I know they are not the same instances and I know that they are not exactly the same type of thing, but I feel that these singular events show something that is and does mean something, Karma and friendship. While VOLT could of been in in their right to argue that its not their fault that some idiot rats in a 5 bil isk ship and they would refuse to compensate (and many people who hate faction ratting ships probably would be on their side). While these instances are just singular, there is a consistent pattern from VOLT and SOUND in regards to the willingness to compromise and work as a team to better Providence. To say it was “”just an omen”” or “”just hotheadedness”” is really to insult everyone else in the matter.

4. SOUND are going to be removed, there is no going back, CVA will not change their minds on this because I will not. SOUND were good people and I hope that those who wish to stay in Providence find a home, however those who are actively shooting CVA and allies at current will not and shouldn’t be welcomed back. Eve is a big universe and i’m sure they will find something else that they like to do as well.

5. Every Alliance in providence isn’t perfect, every pilot in Providence isn’t either. People have all kinds of previous connotations about other alliances, alliances don’t all get along with each other all the time either. However each alliance that is in Providence is working towards making those relationships better, and or making their pilots better. While I know that even myself does not get along with everyone in Providence we all make small sacrifices to make a unified standing block work. I don’t expect perfection I expect people to get better and learn from mistakes and be willing to compromise and eventually become a better region and place in EVE.

If anyone has any more to add feel free to drop a response in the intel dropbox or contact a writer in-game at EN24_Intel

296 Comments

  1. Fartolio

    The most hilarious think i ever saw is the internal shit rules manipulating, rofl. I knew NRDS is BS, but this beats them all. Wonder what’s average age of players there… 16? 17?

    August 1, 2013 at 3:20 pm Reply
    1. Aonus_the_blaster_maniac

      So ur assumption cuz people dont carry ur playstyle is immediately that they are under age teens. not sure if ur the idiotic teen urself or ur missing alot of IQ points… i think id like to pick the second, since it carries a +1 hilarity factor.

      August 2, 2013 at 2:54 am Reply
    2. me

      I like guys like you, having no clue but yet posting like a true master…

      NRDS is more than possible, you can’t prevent incidents.

      August 2, 2013 at 7:59 am Reply
  2. Eve Drama Queens

    TL;DR: SOUND bags a VOLT blue for shooting at (– and not killing!) a questionable neutral, with a sketchy past, neutral has got a kill record showing they run with reds. SOUND CEO tells Blue pilot diplos to stick own dick in ass, matter escalates to CVA as arbiter of last resort, SOUND tells CVA to get fucked, unwilling to reimburse a <100m ship kill, SOUND gets removed from ProviBloc, and forcible eviction commences. During this, asshat SOUND leadership goes crying to blogs, forums, etc about being the victims.

    Result: Everybody gets to whine about CVA and Provi. SOUND loses all sov assets, station control, multiple POS setups, and misc other assorted crap.

    Noticable that SOUND has previously removed assets from the space…. Preplanned, and looking for an excuse. Save 100m on principle of not reimbursing vs total loss of sov assets?

    Move on, or waste bandwidth whining about how big pussy-fags CVA and pets are, or are not. Meh.

    August 1, 2013 at 5:05 pm Reply
    1. me

      Not to mention its all Xavier’s (sound) fault with his dicking behavior towards everyone/everything. I don’t understand why sound doesn’t simply move out of providence. No way to live together with other holders anymore, why there needs to be stupid violence?

      August 2, 2013 at 7:57 am Reply
    2. Rune

      The questionable past is a non issue. It was a neutral with a CVA history as well. Was also a diplomatic bridge from that toon to holdings in a neighboring region which now means CVA is having its derelik towers and pocos removed and all previous agreements declared void. The guy fired on a neutral then taunted in local which leaves him undeserving of compensation. Likely find more pirates in CVA pipelines doing gatecamps as a result of this. Should be fun.
      o?

      August 2, 2013 at 4:48 pm Reply
  3. Whatever

    Well, everywhere I look I see the same thing, and it’s too bad.

    There is a much deeper issue here that everyone has skirted around, and that is the NBSI policies of multiple groups in Providence when outside of the area. This was the root of the “bend the knee or crush them” comment, although made by one that has little affection for OSM. It was a lot more then a blue shooting a neut, and the destruction of same blue. That was just an incident waiting to happen. The result was BOTH sides allowing their pride and egos to direct them to this end. And with all the bitter things said, I believe it truly is the end of OSM and CVA and company ever being friends again. It shows there has been resentment by some pilots on both sides, and as these are usually the most vocal members, I’m sure it played a part in the decisions made by leadership on both sides. Amazing how much the squeeky wheel can effect things at times. Anyway…

    The lack of GOOD communication between allies, sometimes caused by “nerds” and “neckbeards” that may not be as social adept at diplomacy, and you have the natural tendacy of people to rebel against being told anything. That leads to the clash of personalities, and when that is the people in charge, then everyone becomes involved. No one wants to doubt their own leadership, and in a game where the more invested(time, effort…maybe money) take the lead, you usually have the more aggressive giving the orders, as this is how they likely got there. I think good leaders need to lead…and sometimes that means finding the right person to do the talking. Your not going to agree with a lot that they say, I know most people disagree with their governments to some degree, but it’s their ability to negotiate that keeps the peace. And as this is not a fun job, and takes away from “pew pew”, it’s one that rarely gets the proper attention.

    Neither side wants to eat crow. Neither wants to appear weak, to their own people and to others outside watching. But real compromise is either at the end of a gun, or neither side really getting what they want. Sucks, but there it is.

    Could this have been handled differently? Sure. But the politics made that difficult. Not willing to give an inch as it would be weakness…yea, that didn’t help either. Can’t have absolutes. A neutral party may have helped, but that would have been a bitter pill for CVA, and there is no reason to believe either side would have complied.

    As to the shooting of neuts, this is likely not to change. There are too many “unfriendly” neuts and too many trigger happy protectors. It a matter of how the situation is dealt with that makes the difference. Holder fleets want to shoot stuff, they do roams all the time outside of Prov. Combat is quick, and decisions have to be made quick, so there will always be problems. But the boredom kills are the responsibility of the FC and effectively the corp/alliance.

    As to the NBSI….that’s tougher. Engaging combat vessels in low-sec is one thing, killing haulers and miners…your not at war so your not trying to deny the enemy resources so why attack that. Faction war is a great excuse to engage these people…in that territory. Going to “enemy” null, then attack those enemies. You want to play your “lawful” then don’t take “law-less” space as an excuse. I’ve seen plenty of roams to go pick a fight and lose ships, but I’ve seen plenty of kills that maybe weren’t needed either. Those that REALLY embrace the NRDS anti-piracy belief have to know it will be tough. It’s not for everyone.

    Good luck to everyone. Fly safe…or don’t.
    Have some fun pew pew, but stay friends.

    And be nice…it’s just a game.

    No really, it’s serious business.

    August 1, 2013 at 8:04 pm Reply
  4. Aonus_the_blaster_maniac

    First few months of my nullsec life was infact in Providence. During Aralis’s time and Now, u cant expect a “perfect” scenery in the policies and rules. That every little bit of details are followed. This is a Game, not the Police Academy / Police Department. The only thing i keep seeing are people bitching about not getting shit their way. Keep in mind that at the end of the day, its players who are in control of the system so itll never be perfect. either learn to live with it, or… go live somewhere else.

    August 2, 2013 at 3:14 am Reply
  5. Morpheus

    We have removed all docking fees and reset all standings towards KOS entities and you can now dock in 4B-NQN or 9-F0B until we no longer own the stations.Enjoy roaming Provi!Of Sound Mind

    So much for principles and NRDS

    August 3, 2013 at 5:52 pm Reply
    1. Provi Resident

      Indeed. Now you have gone full darkside. Wasn´t your actions in the first place supposedly to uphold NRDS? Now when the tide changes, you abandon them completely? Standing reset.. yeah, that’s the easy way to get out. True principles are not discarded, finally SOUND is showing its true colors. Such a shame.

      August 4, 2013 at 2:03 am Reply
    2. Provi Neut

      Which is worse, shooting and not killing a neutral due to misunderstanding the situation or intentionally shooting and killing an ally? Pretty simple really although you don’t seem to understand that. The answer is intentionally shooting and killing the blue.

      Not because he’s blue. It’s because you intentionally shot and destroyed him.

      NRDS mean Not Red Don’t Shoot. That means anyone other than reds which includes blues.

      You people have been going on about “so much for principles and NRDS” seemingly unaware that your breaking of the NRDS policy was significantly worse than the VOLT member’s.

      From everything I’ve read and seen in game it looks like you guys are the ones at fault here. You’ve done precisely what you’re complaining of others doing. The only difference is you’ve done it worse.

      August 4, 2013 at 8:06 pm Reply
  6. Chuck Snorris

    And the provi civil war rages on. Funny thing, Sound still holds those [email protected][email protected]!
    I can tell you this. If I find a Wormhole to Provi, I will support this resistance.

    August 6, 2013 at 7:26 pm Reply
  7. Just another bro

    is it me or have CVA not taken anything off them yet, hold on……….. it appears they have been cock blocked by wait, test + N3 AND goons lmao.

    August 7, 2013 at 10:51 am Reply
  8. voteforaliaras

    After reading all of these comments and what Ali Aras posted on the Mitanni I think I am seeing what is really going on here.

    Here are some key quotes from Ali Aras and Xavier.

    “Heated arguments on forums occur with everyone, especially
    between YF and SOUND.”

    Um, arguments happen, this is why mature diplomacy and rules
    and good leadership are important.

    “CVA sides with YF most of the time, but we eventually get
    what we want.”

    Soooo as long as Ali Aras and Xavier got what they wanted, everything is good…right?

    “Providence is my home, and I still love it and dream for
    what it could be.”
    My guess is that ali Aras and Xavier have a dream for Provi that other leaders do not agree with and so if they cannot get “what they want” they will start wars, buy support and claim the victim to get support. Sound familiar?

    “I used it as a model region many times during my CSM campaign.”

    Why would you use Provi as a model region for your gaining of votes
    to get a position on CSM when you claim that Provi leadership are bullies? Is
    providence the only area of EVE that could support your “dream”?

    Most importantly has Provi gone from “a model region” just a
    few months ago to something aweful for neutrals far worse than all the rest of
    Eve that you resort to supporting destroying it? Is this war all CVA’s fault Xavier
    and Ali? Or do you refuse to take any responsibility for how ridiculous this is
    getting now, or do you have other “ambitions” you are not ready to share with
    everyone?

    “And yet, here we are, backed into a corner by Provi’s failing leadership.”

    Lets not forget that ali aras and Xavier were a big part of that Provi leadership. What Ali is not telling anyone is that she is in full support of Xavier in their using
    subtle ways to gain support in their “victim” status to “burn providence”. What better way to make CVA look like the bad guy so that they can start a new fresh provi led by…oh guess who Ali Aras and xavier :)

    You see Ali Aras and Xavier, from everything I can tell have their own
    ambition in all of this. Ali hates CVA and VOLT and YF and all of their leaders
    because they are not “giving them what they want” and it is becoming quite
    clear that Ali has a plan for provi and it is being blocked those CVA bullies.

    If Ali Aras ever gets leadership in an area of EVE I can guarantee
    you there will be hordes of people who will work to do exactly what Xavier and
    Ali aras are trying to do to Provi right now, ruin it and just point fingers
    that “its your fault or you didn’t do what I wanted” but it wont be that polite
    I am sure because we know that Ali Aras and Xavier are fully supportive of the
    following kind of diplomacy…..

    “send me one of your diplos, so I can tell him or her to put
    his or her dick up his or her own ass. Fly safe”

    Isn’t EVE such a wonderful place? I sure wish we had a
    respectable CSM that would put an end to bullying and horrible pornographic
    language once and for all.

    August 7, 2013 at 2:55 pm Reply

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