maps_sov

Communism, as defined in common western society,

is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless[1][2] and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order.[3]

 (Source: Wikipedia)

But typically what I mean when I say “communism” is a state where everything is owned by a central authority, and everyone’s work effort goes into a common pool and is doled out by the central authority as it sees fit for everyone’s benefit. The idea is that the central authority ensures everyone has what they need to survive and thrive and that no one gets more of the resources than they deserve to the detriment of others, especially if they end up contributing less to the common pool.

One would think that in a game like Eve where individual wealth and ownership is so paramount to e-pride and gloating privileges that a concept of toiling for the common good to lift everyone equally would not find fertile soil. Yet more than a few major null sec alliances have described themselves as “Space Communists”, most famously the Goonswarm Federation.

Are they really?

On the other hand, Fascism is defined as “a form of radical authoritarian nationalism” that

seek to unify their nation through a totalitarian state that promotes the mass mobilization of the national community,[3][4] relying on a vanguard party to initiate a revolution to organize the nation on fascist principles.[5] Hostile to liberal democracy, socialism, and communism, fascist movements share certain common features, including the veneration of the state, a devotion to a strong leader, and an emphasis on ultranationalism and militarism.

(Source: Wikipedia)

“Mass mobilization”, “veneration of the state”, “strong leader”, “militarism”… does that not sound more like Goonswarm that words like “classless, moneyless and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production”?

NOTE: I am not comparing Goonswarm to Nazis nor am I criticizing their form of organization! I don’t care how ruthless or authoritarian you make your space empire because in Eve people have the option to leave or avoid said empire, unlike the civilians in real life.  


I only bring this comparison of definitions up because I want to make a point: a true communist society would typically attempt to live within its means, while fascist societies with “mass mobilization” and “militarism” on the mind would require more resources to accomplish their goals.

But whatever; this is internet spaceships and we can make up our own goddamned terms to describe internet space empire organizational structures if we want to. To that end, what are the properties of Space Communism?

– Resources extracted by the central authority (corporations/alliance) are used for programs to improve pilots and their willingness to participate in operations (ship reimbursement, skill books, etc), as well as general alliance upkeep (towers, jump bridges, sov bills, upgrades, etc)
– pilots are expected to be connected to central authority as much as possible (forums, jabber, intel channels, etc)
– pilots are expected to “x up” for fleets as often as possible
– all organizational units are in a constant ready state for war, and indeed are encouraged to wage war themselves when the entire state is not already at war

This is a rough approximation and as you can see, most of it applies to all space empires in Eve. The really unique thing about the “Space Communism” is the increased emphasis on helping pilots get into ships, either by outright paying for the ship in the first place or assisting in skill books required (such as for expensive ones like capital skill books).

All that being said the takeaway is that running an alliance is expensive but running a space communistic alliance is very expensive, even in peacetime if you continue to run your ship reimbursement program because want to encourage your pilots to keep their PvP skills sharp and honed.

Which brings us to the Fountain War.

I admit I was skeptical when the war began that the reason was about taking moons. After all, look at any map of null sec sovereignty and you see that the CFC controls a vast swathe of space.

Null Sec North West Corner

Surely, one thinks, that is more than enough resources for the alliances living there to make it work. But there was the moon rebalancing that completely nerfed the value of Technetium moons in the north, and traditionally the north has been less fortunate in number of profitable R64 moons. One could speculate that after becoming accustomed to supping at the table of the Technetium Throne for so long that, much like Western Civilization and oil, they became addicted to a certain lifestyle to the point where they decided it would be preferable to go to war for moons to replace the Technetium than to learn to live within their means in the new reality.

Now, some have said that the war between CFC and TEST is a war to extinction for one side or the other. I never got that feeling. I still think that the CFC, Goons in particular, still think of TEST as family and that this war was about moons and saying to TEST that “we’re the big older brother and you are the younger smaller one; remember your place”. Perhaps when the HBC was alive and kicking it their might have been a tone of fear in that relationship but I think the CFC spymasters and political manipulations took care of that problem earlier this year.

Space Communism is very expensive and very addictive. And like any addiction, you think you control it but in the end it controls you as long as you give into it.

– Kirith Kodachi

We are proud to bring you the stories, opinions and musings of a long time pilot who has dabbled in everything New Eden has to offer, he writes and podcasts about his opinions and adventures at Ninveah.com

79 Comments

  1. shadukar

    TL;DR : Please read a long explanation how I don’t understand that the whole space communism thing in goonswarm is in fact a gimmick.

    July 23, 2013 at 11:26 pm Reply
  2. Informer

    Also GRRRRgooon

    July 23, 2013 at 11:46 pm Reply
  3. Yolo

    Cfc has and ways will be until thankfully they eventually crumble, they will be a flock of sheep to their Shepard. Where the weak sheep bunch together to mass blob their more skilled hostiles.
    Cfc sheep will always have no better benifits than many other alliances out of cfc have.
    What will never change is the drive and minipulation from certain leadership to stay space rich/ rmt rich.
    The weak have always felt safer in big blobs, also gloat like mighty warriors when in reality they are but shit from ass and serve a single purpose to safely and securely fill RL/isk wallets. That’s the facts of the matter, wich is why it’s always so sad that such horseshit propaganda is believed vehemently by the strung along cfc grunt.
    Cfc in a nut shell is everything that limits the game Down, if a grunt in cfc you are limited to a fraction of the experience you could gain from simply willing to learn and improve. As you are not needed to improve your there to comply and again fill master wallets.
    There’s always been more mugs than brains, still is a shame though…

    July 23, 2013 at 11:48 pm Reply
    1. Goon

      Son I do whatever the fuck I want in this game and nobody in my alliance leadership tells me what to do as long as I don’t fuck with other goons. I haven’t requested a reimbursement for a single loss in more than a year because I’m at the point where I can replace shit myself. I have my wealth not from blind luck, not from scams, and definitely not from veteran privilege shit like T2 BPOs because I’ve only played since 2009.

      TL;DR: you’re stupid as fuck and you don’t know a fucking thing about the CFC. We’re not going to fucking crumble any time soon.

      July 24, 2013 at 7:02 am Reply
      1. Goon bollocks

        So what you described is privileges that almost any other alliance is eve can give you. What is cfc giving you that’s so different.
        Ill tell you a huge safety net, to keep you safe from better skilled players.
        They give you safety so to can carry on making th same mistakes same lack of experience over and over.
        Cfc is not a place to impove its a place to follow the sheep I front of you.

        And why do people pretend that they don’t know mittens and cfc leadership are heavily involved in rmt.
        There’s no hard facts that come to mind.
        But mittens doesn’t work he has his website and shit now, how you think he lives and has retire early, you can only be ignorant not to know the truth regardless of how smart the guy is from keeping rmt/ botting separate from his known accounts. Got to be a goon to believe otherwise. Since if mittens says one thing majority of you lemons believe it lawl.

        July 24, 2013 at 10:30 am Reply
        1. Goon

          I understand, you’re a bottom feeder that envies people who made the right decisions with their lives and found themselves retiring early as a result, but the fact that you, a bottom feeder, can’t see why they managed that success just means that you aren’t bright enough to ever get there.

          He doesn’t need to make some shitty amount of money selling isk to pay his bills. People that need to sell ISK to make a living are usually in the dregs of society, like you.

          July 24, 2013 at 11:00 am Reply
      2. Goon

        also lol riverini blacklisted me for posting this, what a riot

        July 24, 2013 at 11:01 am Reply
      3. Mittani Deepthroat

        One can hope asswipe. One can hope. :#

        July 24, 2013 at 12:36 pm Reply
    2. dasdas

      What will never change is the drive and minipulation from certain leadership to stay space rich/ rmt rich.

      STOP BEING RETARDED AND BUTT HURT. RMT THIS RMT THAT… YOU DONT HAVE A FUCKING PROOF SO STOP BLOWING EVERYBODY.

      July 24, 2013 at 7:50 am Reply
  4. troll

    I’m going to throw in another wikipedia page – cult of personality – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

    It is so fucking sad that even though Eve isn’t real people act like sheep both in real life and in-game. Adolf, Jossif and Mao would be proud.

    July 24, 2013 at 12:04 am Reply
  5. Guest

    So lets just ignore the rest of the map where other alliances have more space than the Goons. This article is shit.

    July 24, 2013 at 12:10 am Reply
  6. Informer

    Jo Yolo dude, seriously. It’s clear Goons or CFC touched you in a no-no place, but you really should take a big step back from the GAME and find your anchor in real life. Seriously.

    July 24, 2013 at 12:14 am Reply
  7. ReadHistoryandLearnFromthePast

    Ugg. Do not rely on Wiki anything to get a definition. Use a dictionary that has historical definitions. Too many people today try to rewrite history and redefine a word.

    Definition of COMMUNISM

    1

    a : a theory advocating elimination of private property
    b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed

    2

    a : a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
    b: totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production
    c : a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably
    d : communist systems collectively

    Now how can one say with a straight face that any party or power will equally distribute anything? That is why the Soviet system fell was because it wasn’t equally distributed. The only thing equally distributed was misery and maybe a single loaf of bread. Because when one takes away the incentive to do the best they can at anything you get the lest amount of effort. Which then prevents growing and maximizing the productivity of individuals. Because …hey I will get nothing for the extra outlay of work I perform. The same for Internet Space Communism. There is really only one group that gains and that is the central power/party. If the individuals participating have nothing to gain they will not fight period. So its not Communism that they practice its plain and simple greed that starts these internet space conflicts. And nobody will reach the final stage of Marx’s theology. There will always be a central authoritarian power to redistribute. There has to be or else its anarchy. And the Nazi’s and Soviets were both Socialists. They both adhered to a national identity and were Militaristic. There is little difference in either of the two States at the time. If you didn’t tote the Party line you lost what you had period.

    July 24, 2013 at 12:16 am Reply
    1. Western Civ Historian

      “Nazi’s and Soviets were both Socialists” you may want to open a history book yourself there.

      Nazi Germany were NOT socialist. They in fact hated Socialist, and actively arrested them and murdered them. Why the rest of the west didn’t say much in the 1930’s when the Nazi’s were taking over germany, because they were anti Socialism, anti Communism.

      They USED the image of being pro-labor to win the elections, but once they got power they turned on them.

      In fact a very famous quote of a german that lived thru Nazi germany, is

      “First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out–

      Because I was not a Socialist.

      Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out–
      Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

      Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out–
      Because I was not a Jew.

      Then they came for me–and there was no one left to speak for me.”

      I can’t stand people always saying Socialism is bad because the Nazi were Socialist, the Nazi’s were a totalitarian dictatorship, nothing more. Just like Saddam Hussein was in Iraq, Iraq wasn’t Socialist, or Capitalist, it was a totalitarian dictatorship.

      People mistake it as Socialism because it too has state run economies, the difference is Socialist believe in state run economies and thats it, while totalitarian dictatorship’s believe in state run everything.

      “Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state”

      Yes it is true Russia under Stalin was also a totalitarian dictatorship and not Communism. Just because a state calls itself something doesn’t make it so. After all China calls itself a Democratic Republic. Where you can’t vote… lol

      July 24, 2013 at 1:40 am Reply
      1. Commies are everywhere

        Finally someone with some intelligence.

        July 24, 2013 at 12:33 pm Reply
        1. ReadHistoryandLearnFromthePast

          Apparently you missed the entire argument didn’t you???? I said it wasn’t Communism they were practicing. Here… I will quote myself. “Ugg. Do not rely on Wiki anything to get a definition. Use a dictionary that has historical definitions. Too many people today try to rewrite history and redefine a word.” Then I gave the author the definition of Communism. Then…I quote myself again…..”So its not Communism that they practice its plain and simple greed that starts these internet space conflicts. And nobody will reach the final stage of Marx’s theology. There will always be a central authoritarian power to redistribute. There has to be or else its anarchy. And the Nazi’s and Soviets were both Socialists.” So you see I argued that it wasn’t Space Communism and not even Space Socialism. But greed pure and simple. Clear enough now?

          July 25, 2013 at 2:59 am Reply
      2. ReadHistoryandLearnFromthePast

        read up. The Nazi’s were Socialists. And they practiced it by taking control of the Industrialists manufacturing capabilities through trade Unions via thuggery and force. You can try to talk your way around it but the economy of Nazi Germany was centrally controlled and that is by definition a Socialist economy. Just because they cloaked there control with a nationalistic and militaristic coat does not negate the fact. And the Soviet Union was a Socialist State and nothing more. No one will or could obtain communism period. There is always a central authority to distribute. Lenin and Stalin both practiced totalitarianism with a nationalistic and militaristic coat as well. Same side of the coin. What just because one socialist doesn’t like another socialist that means thy aren’t the same??

        July 25, 2013 at 2:29 am Reply
      3. ReadHistoryandLearnFromthePast

        Oh and by the way……You do know that my post is in response to the author using the term Communism. I even stipulated in my post that the USSR and Nazi Germany were Socialists. Because they both had a centralized economy. As in my original post I used a standard dictionary definition to prove my point. Not even the definition soothed you.

        Here is the definition of Socialism for you as well.

        Definition of SOCIALISM

        1

        : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

        2

        a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property

        b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

        3

        : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

        As you can tell both Socialism and Communism advocates the elimination of private property as well as the means of production. How can you be free if you can’t even have an idea and realize an economic benefit of your own ideas. How is that FREE! Its pure intimidation by a central authority. Do you think you will get the best and brightest to willing give up effort for a political party’s well being? Socialism is anti freedom. You wouldn’t have half of the products and progress if it wasn’t for the western liberal democracies. And I use the definition of the term as associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives.

        July 25, 2013 at 2:51 am Reply
  8. Inigo Montoya

    Little Known Fact: Space Fascists like taking your stuff… Show us on the Rifter where CFC touched you.

    July 24, 2013 at 12:23 am Reply
  9. Someone

    So you just figured out why we invading fountain? Good work there, sherlock!

    Anyway your whole “analyse chit-chat” can comply to pretty much everything. I work with my collegeus for some dude’s wallet I don’t even know, we work as a team for “the greater good” cause if we don’t I wont be getting my monthly income which results in no food/roof. And quiting isn”t much of an obvious option in these days.

    When I get home I can shoot spaceship in someone else region without any hassle or paperwork. login -> join fleet-> shoot stuff. And if things go wrong I get new ship. A good way to relax after work if you tell me!!!!

    July 24, 2013 at 12:26 am Reply
    1. Inigo Montoya

      You see sir, according to Gev, we should be wary of this efficient Coalition/Alliance bureaucracy setup because it makes us lazy and look for handouts. Apparently we need our members to have more reasons to log off and play other games like TEST does because our space richness encourages PVP.

      Sounds like we need to change our ways. *rolls eyes*

      July 24, 2013 at 12:39 am Reply
  10. Define

    I dislike how the concepts of communism and socialism are always so whimsically interchanged. The former is a virtually unattainable ideal, the latter is reality. Socialism is the precursor to communism, stemming from capitalism, and still infused with its principals. If anything, you should be drawing the comparison to socialist society. Communism has never truly been applied and, IMO, never will be.

    July 24, 2013 at 12:33 am Reply
    1. chingalingdong fawei chu

      neither has democracy on a national level, its always a republic

      July 24, 2013 at 1:36 am Reply
    2. Noisrevbus

      There are two reasons:

      1. Political theory in the US has a different political paradigm than the political history of europe. We define things like “conservatism” differently (ie., monarchic feudalism vs. wild-west libertarianism). This makes understanding the relationship between socialism and communism in the european political history difficult for people in the US (similarily to how it’s difficult for europeans to understand how ultra-liberals in the US are conservatives, not liberals).

      2. As, you put it, a very wide “precursor”… the term “socialism” have many definitions, or applications when it comes to referring theory to real policy. I believe most europeans equate socialism with social-democracy, and those who are a bit more versed on the subject understand it’s ideological span between welfare-liberalism and communism. That means that many europeans, too, tend to use the term rather whimsically based on what they aim to argue.

      I like the simple terms the US have adopted from the political paradigms (liberal-left, conservative-right etc.), they usually say alot more than trying to argue diffuse terms from political history. Instead of saying “communism” say “conservative-left”, instead of saying “socialism” say “leftist”. The rest is largely irrelevant anyway as it has too many outside implications :).

      July 24, 2013 at 2:37 am Reply
      1. Noisrevbus

        implications … or requires context.

        July 24, 2013 at 2:39 am Reply
    3. Rick

      Dislike it all you may, communism is a child of the socialist ideology. Communism is a method of putting socialism into practice.
      Communism abounds throughout history. The mayflower charter colony. American indian reservations. Soviet Russia.
      yes people still hoard (tax evasion or what ever you want to call it) because it is impossible to completely enforce. Communism is more about the attempt and for that a strong arm dictator is required. Hence the likes of Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mugabe who engaged in totalitarianism in order to achieve their goals with varying degrees of success.

      July 24, 2013 at 3:20 am Reply
  11. Dinsdale Pirannha

    Where does the enormous amount ISK flows being converted into RMT factor into your equation? Yeah, this war was about money. But not in-game money. And CCP just turns a blind eye to how much real life coin the null sec cartels are converting, because it is good for CCP’s business model.

    July 24, 2013 at 12:53 am Reply
    1. proof?

      Where is your proof?

      I think that the leadership of test rmt there assess off. That’s why there aliance is broke. They ask for donations of there memhers to RMT some more to keep there lifestyle up. Do I have proof?

      Ofc not.

      July 24, 2013 at 1:41 am Reply
      1. Gosible

        Screw you, we don’t need proof we read EVENEWS24 and so anything we say that’s negative towards the CFC is the truth!!

        July 24, 2013 at 2:57 am Reply
        1. Jacek

          Mitani have job? if not, you have proof.

          July 24, 2013 at 11:49 am Reply
          1. lol

            I have a friend who, like Mittens, retired from law in his 30s. One of his clients settled a case out of court for a huge sum of money and the cut he got from that was enough to never have to work another day in his life.

            I realize you flip burgers part-time or whatever but some people are just talented enough to lead short but successful careers.

            July 24, 2013 at 12:16 pm
  12. Kamar Raimo

    Goons are neither space communists nor space nazis. They are space scientology

    July 24, 2013 at 1:35 am Reply
  13. DrInternet (M int)

    Socialogically speaking theyre facists, you answered that yourswlf in about 3 parageaphs. Then apparently forgot that for the rest of he article.

    July 24, 2013 at 2:08 am Reply
  14. Kent

    I don’t think TEST is family. The closest thing is a pet dog that bit the hand that feeds it. Time to put it down, it is the humane thing to do.

    July 24, 2013 at 2:45 am Reply
    1. Kent

      PS. Also look for more “family” and “dear old TEST” talk from here on out as we get closer to extinguishing the flame that is TEST. Maybe even flat out shameless pleading on their behalf.

      Then remember the same avenues that tried to marginalize us, talk down about us, scoff at our chances to win…yet again, and prop up the flavor of the month that might oppose us.

      The only merciful thing to do now is to put TEST out of it’s misery. Free the news articles from the shackles of their bias for a brief moment as there is no more warring with goons and they can maybe…just maybe…write a competent article.

      July 24, 2013 at 2:50 am Reply
  15. Rick

    Fascism and Communism are two sides of the same coin. They are both far left socialists. The primary differenence between the two as we know, was that the nazi party was voted into power by the industrialists which severely curtailed their control of the economy till much later in their reign.
    Whereas the communists took power in a bloody coup so their control was total right from the start.
    We remember things differently to historical truth because a. the nazis were evil and b. the communists of Russia, the socialists of England France and USA won.
    They distanced themselves from their evil cousin by propaganda.

    July 24, 2013 at 3:11 am Reply
    1. Noisrevbus

      They are both two sides of conservatism. Claiming that they are both far left simply means that you don’t understand the division of left and right (ie., the axis of equity). I doubt you’d argue that Fascism in any way supported an equal society, which means, in line with the common definition of “right-wing extremists”, put those ideals firmly to the (conservative-) right or the essence of feudalism: a hierarchical society (right) under authoritarian rule (conservative).

      Though reading your comments I can only assume that you are american.

      July 24, 2013 at 5:28 am Reply
      1. I just do not know

        You are a complete and utter idiot, left and right is simply a term that was used to denote seating in the French chamber and is used by the simplistic mind to get some understanding of peoples views.
        The Nazi’s were National Socialists, in other words they were Nationalistic Socialists, which is first of all a warped love for their country, warped further for their lack of respect for the individual rights and their focus on the collective, such as the Fatherland.
        To call them Conservatives shows you have you head so far up your ass, it must be painful to even think, and take that from a European!

        July 24, 2013 at 6:45 am Reply
        1. Noisrevbus

          It is only used to get some understanding of people’s views?

          What do you think the left-right terminology is there for? Could it possibly be to “get a simplistic overview of people’s views”?

          Congratulations on finding Wikipedia though, in a couple of years you might even be able understand that page you quoted ;).

          July 24, 2013 at 7:32 am Reply
          1. I just do not know

            You are an even bigger retard, Wikipedia has a political structure in terms of peer approval that applies a sheen of political corretness, so its not a reliable guide in anything to do with politics, in fact most definitions should be treated with caution. Again you showed your naivity!

            July 24, 2013 at 8:13 am
          2. Noisrevbus

            The naivity of some irrelevant French chamber, that Wikipedia is indeed a Wiki (but politically correct?) and nationalistic germans?

            Let’s wait and see if you manage to make the pieces fit soon ;).

            If you spent less time being so angry, it might go quicker.

            July 24, 2013 at 9:02 am
          3. I just do not know

            You are just a kid who has no idea what is real and what is propoganda, to tie in Communists and Fascists with Conservatives who believe in individual rights, freedom of expression, and democracy shows you are a fool, and bluster on your part does not work. And yes angry, at our expensive education systems producing retards like you!

            July 24, 2013 at 11:16 am
        2. lolscrub

          Sorry to break it to you, but if you think that the political structure in germany during the third reich had anything to do with socialism you need some propper education. Yes, the nazis called themselves national socialists but this name was merely a relict of the first steps to political power the NSDAP took in the early 20s. At this time Hitler indeed based his early success on socialistic populism. However the actual takeover 10 years later was carried by the conservative civic and industrialist parts of society. And heavily relied on them until 1945. All the socialistic principles in place at that time were indeed established during the “Weimarer Republik” between 1918 and 1932.

          You bitch about people using terms like left or right to describe political alignments, you yourself however blindly follow the idea that the self-given name of a political movement reflects it´s true agenda? Take that from a german, who actually knows his shit.

          July 24, 2013 at 11:20 am Reply
          1. I just do not know

            Your a retard as well, I am a fucking historian and your so called facts here are utter propoganda bullshit, you show a typical lack of knowledge on this subject, cherry picking the business leaders playing along with the Nazi’s to keep at least nominal control of their business assets, to define that as conservatic civic control is utter bullshit. And yes the Nazi’s were socialists, its actually taught in France, and in Britain the Socialists made sure that this was not acknowledged. I just cannot believe what I just read, wow!

            July 24, 2013 at 11:42 am
          2. lolscrub

            You mean business leaders like Krupp or Thyssen, happily pumping millions into the pockets of the NSDAP since the late 20s when the nazis didn´t have any control whatsoever? Yeah, i really see those guys “playing along”. I will give you though that if you stretch very thin and bend around a lot of corners you could interpret some socialistic principles into things like extreme nationalistic and eugenic behavior. The leading structures in the Nazi movement were all heavily interwoven within germanys conversative civic and industrial society. and those were the classes benefiting the most from the Nazi reign. Maybe if you are a fucking historian (which i highly doubt, because usually as an academic you should have learned how to support your arguments without sperging the fuck out) you can give some examples as to why you consider the Nazi movement a socialistic one? Which exact socialistic principles were established by the NSDAP after 1933?

            July 24, 2013 at 12:08 pm
          3. I just do not know

            Its because I am sick to death of revisionist history being taught in schools and those without the ability to objectively dissect it for the truth repeating it parrot fashion, you are obviously intelligent, just take off your Socialist blinkers and look at the fact objectively. At this point I am no longer angry, just sad that you cannot see the very obvious holes in your argument. think through the events of the 20’s, and think what was Krupp and Thyssen doing in terms of the communist threat. Then think through how people behave, the civic conservatives as you put it went with the Nazi’s because it was better than going with the Communists, but even more important was trying to survive under such a regime. But to think for one moment that you can lay Nazi principals as being conservatives because they accomodated it and tried to moderate it from within is revisionist rubbish. And you know full well that after 33 they the Nazi’s along with most Germans were focussed on regaining control over the Saar region and rebuilding the armed forces.
            And you should realise that Conservative historians have been effectively neuted, I left because I was not prepared to teach revisionist history.

            July 24, 2013 at 12:49 pm
          4. lolscrub

            I will give you that our perception of that time has been indeed influenced by to much subjective and directed (by whichever socio-political alignment) writing.

            I would admit there were socialistic tendencies at some point during the formation of the national socialistic movement. However these were later mitigated to a degree where it is actually not possible to speak of a socialistic alignment anymore. That´s my opinion. There is not just THE one truth to this. The political leaders even within the NSDAP were very diverse in their background and motivations. However to talk of the german industrial class as “slaves of the socialistic NSDAP” is just to far fetched.

            The overall direction the NSDAP took in their reign in germany from 1933-1945 is not in socialistic one and thats what i am basing my standpoint on. Sure, there were social systems established in germany (not because of the NSDAP though) and there were socialist sub-movements and ideas. On a broader horizon though they are just not relevant.

            July 24, 2013 at 1:50 pm
          5. I just do not know

            “The political leaders even within the NSDAP were very diverse in their background and motivations” Correct, as for the term slaves to the NSDAP, their assets were taken under Nazi control so to speak but they were allowed to continue in their role, many people put in that position try to do what they need to survive, the Conservatives accomodated the Nazi’s because if they did not they would lose everything. The Nazi’s leaders like many political movement leaders only had their own interets and goals in mind, they quickly realised that once in power they needed to use what was there. Hardly conservative just being pragmatic.
            My own study was really foccused on the link between the Nazi’s and Islam, and the link between the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and Heinrich Himmler. That was what I was interested in, but part of the study was looking at the Nazi party ideology and how that linked in. Sadly the project was canned due to political correctness, but there is some eye openning information there that sadly I cannot dilvulge as I am bound by contract. I sent your comments to my Germen friend, as I was sure he would find them interesting.

            As for the way I talk here, I can go back to my working class roots and act the part, makes it more fun when people think you are an ignorant pleb..
            And sorry for being so aggresive but I really hate revisionist history and people who cannot understand that conservatives that believe in freedom of expression, individual liberties and real democracy, not the false ones we have now are in no shape or form Nazi’s or Fascists, and I especially detest the simplistic right left definitions that hide the fact that politics is really about policies.

            July 24, 2013 at 2:19 pm
          6. lolscrub

            In that case i can understand your frustration. Though not a supporter of conservative believes myself i would agree that the term is overly associated with negative things in general usage.

            I know the problems of scientific doctrine myself though in another field of expertise.

            I still don´t share your assessment in this case though, but the next best thing we could do would be to argue about the definition of socialism and so i will leave it at that :-)

            July 24, 2013 at 3:51 pm
          7. I just do not know

            I see where you are coming from, and you are talking about what I would define as the accomodation period, I would like to remind you of recent history, the victory of Mitterand in 1982, he went on a nationalisation spree in France that severely damaged their economy, about a year and a half later he had a pragmatic attack, but he was still Socialist.

            The thing that Conservatives keep pointing out that as soon as you put the collective good as they see it in front of core individual rights (common sense needed here by the way) that is a recipie for tolitarian aggression. In France we see exactly that from the Socialist government, it is truly fascinating to see their behaviour.

            The fun part for me is that currently we live in very interesting times, I am living through and able to record a civilisational shift of epic porportions akin to the fall of the Roman Empire with the collapse of Western civilisation, for any historian this is an exciting but at times frightening period to be living in and I chill out by blowing up pixels…

            July 24, 2013 at 4:09 pm
          8. lolscrub

            Yeah, i understand your argumentation, it just wasn´t easy to figure it out in your first few rage induced comments. And i am willing to agree to it to a certain extend. I just don´t fully share it though. i don´t think this is a problem of my revisionistic perception of history but rather a problem of definition. I will do some reading on the subject in the next time though.

            I guess after some initial problems this was one of the most abundant conversations i ever had on the intraweb. now back to blowing up pixels (fuck, i hope i will stumble across you, whoever you are, so i can blow your spaceship to smithereens.)

            July 24, 2013 at 5:19 pm
          9. I just do not know

            It was the post started with this “They are both two sides of conservatism” by another poster that got me going, sorry for that.
            All people like me ask of people is not to accept blindy what they are told but test it, you are doing that and that is something I respect greatly.

            Fly dangerous!

            July 24, 2013 at 6:55 pm
          10. I just do not know

            You are a German who does not know his shit, unlike most people I have read a awful lot of Gobbels speaches, and more than that have also read the accounts of the accomodation by many of these business leaders.with the Nazi’s. The mind boggles, is this how the Spocialists are trying to distance their principals being used by the Nazi’s, blame it on the business class who were effectively slaves to the Nazi’s, who were kept because they were efficient and kept production up during the war.

            July 24, 2013 at 11:54 am
          11. lolscrub

            The next thing you will try to convince us of is that a man like Göring, who was deeply rooted in a conversative and german empery background was indeed a socialist at heart in disguise.

            Get a grasp on reality man. You are declaring common knowledge of third reich political structures to be socialist propaganda…and you expect anyone to take you serious? You are blabbering about being a well read “historian” and yet you can´t come up with decent examples to fortify your arguments?

            Go troll somewhere else.

            July 24, 2013 at 1:03 pm
          12. lolscrub

            conservative, that is…

            July 24, 2013 at 1:06 pm
          13. I just do not know

            Well you want to believe your revisionist bullshit go ahead, to take individuals like Goring and say that his princiapals were at the heart of the Nazi party is really sad. With that comment in mind I no longer wish to continue with such a retard who puts forward such a bullshit idea and makes it sound as if I said it. I have seen Socialists use that type of rubbish to dsicredit those that they disagree with again and again, you are the fucking troll, that post said it all, that was pure Socialist propoganda and you are too stupid to realise it.
            In fact that post just made my day, thank you!

            July 24, 2013 at 1:15 pm
          14. lolscrub

            Fuck me, if you are not one tinfoil headed little self absorbed cunt i don´t know who is. But what would you expect from a guy canceling his studies because he felt that his teaching sources were infested with socialist propaganda.

            It just shows that everyone and their dead grandmother can get a college degree these days….well if they don´t quit for some mind-boggling reasons that is.

            July 24, 2013 at 2:05 pm
          15. I just do not know

            Actually that post was sent before your better one where your better side shown through. But as I replied more reasonably to your post, I will let this go, but suggest that you read what I said again, I have all my qualifications, I no longer help others get theirs!
            And the beauty of knowing so much, is that I can afford to be a self absorbed cunt 😉

            July 24, 2013 at 3:16 pm
  16. Duh

    in to

    July 24, 2013 at 3:31 am Reply
  17. Reverend Mak

    tl;dr: mittens is literally Mussolini?

    Joke, Kirith… 😛

    Good post.

    July 24, 2013 at 4:09 am Reply
  18. Kicker

    Funny thing. EvE sorta proved that meritocracy, “socialism”, and even capitalism works for certain ppl. I just don’t see democracy in this game anywhere.

    July 24, 2013 at 5:47 am Reply
    1. Noisrevbus

      That’s because EVE is a game, a war-game.

      I guess you could argue that “Spacecommunism” in the form of abundance where everyone is just holding hands and resorting to “games within the game” (ie., Delve/Fountain thunderdomes/wargames, Syndicate competetive leagues, Amamake duels etc.) is a form of “immersion” or even sanboxed player-driven content :).

      To me it’s just a signal that the core gameplay isn’t working, because EVE is meant to be a cold hard world where you elevate yourself outside of the law. Democracy is rather ineffective in a lawless society.

      Then again, and this is quite important for this article: Spacecommunism is only a problem in the abundance that CCP have created by malbalancing their economy. It’s not that the Spacecommunism of the GSF is a threat to the game in any way, in and of itself. It’s not a superior ISK-printing machine in that sense. It has become a problem on the backdrop of CCP making ISK irrelevant in far too many aspects of the game (the current balance is printing ISK, leading to a competition-less utopia).

      It’s not Spacecommunism that delivered the current leftist utopy, it’s the choices CCP made when they balanced cheap or magically insurable ships and structures. It’s not Goons’ fault or PL’s fault that we are in a deadlock between “the most of the free ships” and “the most of the biggest ships”, it’s CCP’s fault :).

      July 24, 2013 at 6:10 am Reply
  19. To be honest if i was in charge of goons i would never call my alliance space facist. that is just bad branding. I am sure it was a careful calculation to use a more friendly term like communist.

    July 24, 2013 at 6:08 am Reply
  20. lowsec for the win

    BahahahaXD politics.. I do enjoy all this goon and test and null sec bull.. I like what I do in my low sec home :p at least there I don’t have to choose a side to fight for to survive and play this incredibly always changing game.

    July 24, 2013 at 6:51 am Reply
  21. Dudumarus

    Spacecomumism is just a joke… we play with words like space tiran, comunism, abundance for everyone but when u lived under comunism is not funny :

    July 24, 2013 at 8:05 am Reply
    1. Dikreathz

      or live under communism… doesnt stop ppl from ranting though

      July 24, 2013 at 3:34 pm Reply
  22. qwer

    The funny thing is, that actually best alliance leader is Hitler. A guy who can make whole nation to want to go war against rest of the world. And even make his urge to kill jews acceptable for everyone else. In other words, a guy who just can manipulate alliance people to want to do what ever he wants to do, no matter how boring, retarded or morally dubious it is.

    The Mittani is currently best Space Hitler.

    July 24, 2013 at 8:32 am Reply
  23. bla

    WTF is this ? Test family hahaha.

    July 24, 2013 at 8:55 am Reply
  24. LOL.

    “But typically what I mean when I say “communism” is a state where everything is owned by a central authority, and everyone’s work effort goes into a common pool and is doled out by the central authority as it sees fit for everyone’s benefit. ”

    Thats socialism.

    July 24, 2013 at 10:20 am Reply
  25. CFC backbones

    Ye thats what i was thinking to, if The Mittani did RMT mountains of isk for dollars then surely the Goons / CFC would be in big financial troubles.
    Goons have a special skill book program that each members can train for carriers and get the skills books + carries for free for almost a year now.
    They havent even begin to (sell) warbons to get extra funds in the alliance.

    They imported thousands of tengu’s only to buy up every Megathron in Eve and seeded it into B-D.
    They got quite a large logistical backbone, if the the best ever seen in Eve Online.
    It seems fiancialy the CFC is far from broke and could continue for quite some time without Fountain moons.
    Remember that CFC does not alow renting or renting empires.
    They earn isk from the Tech era that has ended and are still floating on that isk.
    Trillions of isk go down montly in wars and we still dont hear anything about financial trouble.

    Years people have been saying The Mittani uses RMT, but so far his coalition still seem to be the riches in Eve Online.
    Dont forget Burn Jita prior to the war, that also costed trillions of isk !

    No i dont believe one word of CFC doing RMT.

    July 24, 2013 at 10:27 am Reply
    1. youhaa

      tip: google on skimming.

      it’s what *almost* every alliance leader/corp ceo/director does with access to ISK piles.

      July 24, 2013 at 10:28 am Reply
    2. Yawn

      Your special and ignorant if you don’t believe that… Enough said!

      July 24, 2013 at 10:38 am Reply
      1. Joseph Blade

        believe (third-person singular simple present believes, present participle believing, simple past and past participle believed)
        (intransitive) To think something is true without having proof or empirical evidence.

        I think you are ignorant when you believe.
        when you are sure of something or you conclude something, then you cease to believe.

        also: your != you are. bad mistake to make when you talk about ignorance.

        July 24, 2013 at 12:35 pm Reply
        1. sour

          lol…this vegedable must have grown in shit soil.

          oh look i did a spelling mistake 😛

          July 24, 2013 at 9:06 pm Reply
      2. Solai

        Real quality reply. Very convincing. A beacon of logic, right here.

        July 24, 2013 at 11:27 pm Reply
  26. sour

    pffft, in the future pls refrain from posting about rl matters were obviously ur a clueless bastard. stay with eve matters…

    July 24, 2013 at 10:30 am Reply
  27. Huh.

    So what does that make people who don’t fly this way, “Space Capitalists”?

    July 24, 2013 at 12:38 pm Reply
  28. evolution - you dumb ass

    the only true communist corp i have ever encountered in eve is ‘Evolution’ – this article doesnt mention them once which in my opinin means the author didnt do any home work – rather trying to make a politically biased comment – what a surprise its en24

    July 24, 2013 at 3:23 pm Reply
  29. ShitRobot

    The analogy sorta doesn’t work though. I mean, are countries communistic just because their pilots don’t buy their own fighter jets? Providing military equipment to soldiers doesn’t mean they’re necessarily communists. A lot of comparisons between Eve and real life stuff don’t really translate well- they’re just fundamentally different.

    July 25, 2013 at 11:19 pm Reply

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