dust

DUST isn’t doing well. The reason is widely accepted: it has 2-3 years outdated graphics and offers little difference from other FPS games. I mean you spawn, shoot the randoms who happen to be the opposing team, die, respawn.

EVE Online isn’t just a WoW-clone with spaceship avatars. There is politics, meta-game and huge losses. EVE has carved its own unique playerbase. I’m sure that there is a similar playerbase among FPS players, but DUST fails to reach them. Why? Because DUST doesn’t offer the same empire-building metagame as EVE.

CCP made the move of merging the EVE and DUST universe and make the games affecting each other. Some of the cross-effects are meaningful. More could be introduced, like moving all IHUBs and stations to Temperate planets if available and make planetary dominance meaningful in IHUB/station timers. Hell, they could even introduce IHUB flip, where the hull-damaged IHUB can be invaded by marines and the system instantly changes hands keeping its sov level instead of just blow up.

However none of the cross-effects are used, simply because EVE empires can’t motivate the DUST players. The economies are largely separated with EVE-ISK being different from DUST-ISK. I can’t just give 10B to DUST marines to invade enemy planets. The reason for that is the different business model of the games. EVE is a subscription game, where every account is payed by real money (even if not by you). DUST is a free-to-play game where you gain items both from ISK farmed and real money paid. If EVE players could send ISK to DUST players, DUST would not generate revenues. EVE-ISK does not affect the income of CCP, DUST-ISK does. Therefore the two currencies can never be interchangeable.

However AUR is real money in both games. In EVE you can only buy cosmetic items, while in DUST you can buy power items. The solution is that DUST marines can be hired for AUR. EVE players can turn ISK into AUR using PLEX, assuming that someone else paid for that PLEX and put it to the market. Then they can use the AUR to hire DUST marines. The DUSTie completing his contracts receives AUR, practically real money, paid via real money by some EVE player. The inverse way is possible too: DUST player requesting planetary bombardment for AUR, that the EVE player can convert back to PLEX to fund his account.

This way DUST marines would be a meaningful way to change EVE wars and DUST would gain its unique selling point: you can truly play for free if you perform contracts, affecting the EVE universe.

PS: what is the worst thing about several alliances fighting together? Different comms. Yesterday finally there was a fleet in my timezone. Of course I couldn’t figure out how to get to NC. TS3 before they undocked.

– Gevlon Goblin

His EVE journey show a very interesting “outside the box” approach to the game, PVE and the trade hubs, reason for which we invite you to pay a visit to his blog.

33 Comments

  1. Luwc

    I don’t know man but considering EVE the same as WoW seems very wrong to me.

    Sure both are mmo’s but thats where it stops.

    And yes . Dust does suck [insert : CCP you could have used the ressources on EvE super mega rage rant here]

    What killed Dust is the failed attempt to connect Dust and EvE players . Or forcing to connect them. But at this present point . Nobody gives a fuck about the other.

    “There is only one way to safe dust . Finish what you have started … Make dust marines a vialable and deadly force in all of EvE . Mainly including Sov Wars. Dust Corporations could join one of the Sov Holding alliances. Ihubs and other structures could get reinforced or even killed by dust players from the ground . Orbital Defense weapons can then be used to help in the spaceship fights. I.e. Move sov structures such as TCU’s and Ihubs to planets only. These planets then become dust battlefields. The winning side either defends the structure or it goes into reinforced mode creating a timer to fight over.”
    So yes . I do agree with your points.
    Nice Article ( one of the very few good articles on EN24 )

    July 18, 2013 at 3:55 pm Reply
    1. random

      best way to save dust: introduce a planet-based weapon that can target titans/supers anywhere in system. Control of the planet gives control of this weapon.

      July 19, 2013 at 12:27 am Reply
  2. that guy

    ccp is just taking the same steps they took when they created eve. release an unfinished product, milk it for all it’s worth till they are forced to improve it or lose profit.

    July 18, 2013 at 3:56 pm Reply
    1. riverini

      Yeah, but in DUST case there is no upfront so they do not capitalize post-trial, there are tens of superior FPS alternatives on the same console and tbh the game is not really fun in the long run.

      Regarding the killer feature Orbital strikes? awesome the first times, it also gets olds quick. There are plenty of other games which have artillery options and you do not need to be depending from other players.

      July 18, 2013 at 4:38 pm Reply
  3. Doglar

    Glevon, congratulations. This is not only the first post that hasn’t been boring, self promoting bullshit, but makes a good point and is well thought out….keep it up!

    July 18, 2013 at 4:59 pm Reply
  4. Yeah Right.

    Well call me Chicken Little, an article from Goblin that has some actual content!

    July 18, 2013 at 5:07 pm Reply
  5. Eye of the beholder

    Congrats GG!!

    This is a great idea & a good article too. In fact your latest publications ( for ex. Test donations) got me back reading your stuff again.

    Keep it up like that!!

    July 18, 2013 at 5:25 pm Reply
  6. Musashibou Benkei

    nothing can save DUST

    July 18, 2013 at 5:44 pm Reply
  7. Thead Enco

    FFS. GG article that makes sence +1

    July 18, 2013 at 6:11 pm Reply
  8. Jesus Loves You

    Gevlon, you are a scrub. What you do is add ALL friendly coms ASAP – you were probably told this already or it was in a bulletin or motd somewhere.

    HTFU πŸ˜€

    July 18, 2013 at 6:40 pm Reply
  9. Gorgoth24

    This made wonderful sense. And that’s coming from an EVE and Dust player

    July 18, 2013 at 7:08 pm Reply
  10. Chuck Snorris

    What is this? A good article from Greasy? All kidding aside good write up. And yes anyone that fights in a major block has sympathy about trying to register for this and that coms.

    July 18, 2013 at 7:16 pm Reply
  11. youhaa

    Congrats GG!

    Now next step is try to make a article without any reference to that Blizzard game.

    (it makes you look like a moron)

    July 18, 2013 at 7:21 pm Reply
    1. Luigi

      Comparison was relevant to the point he was trying to make. The point might not be relevant to you, perhaps that’s what you should have pointed out; most people on here are equally unconstructive in their criticism of any posts so you’d blend right in. πŸ˜‰

      July 18, 2013 at 9:12 pm Reply
  12. Gorgoth24

    I feel like there’s a lack of understanding among EVE pilots as to why so many people are screaming “Dust is Dead”. And, after reading a number of Riv’s articles on dust, I feel as though my point of view would be additive.

    So I’ll leave a short history lesson of Dust 514 here:

    Pre-Uprising: Things were humming along in the development process at a turtle’s pace, but nonetheless things were slowly getting balanced and introduced to make the game continually more fun. But it was, at its base, just a little worse then most shooters with the promise of being much, much better.

    And, on the horizon, we could see Uprising. With its graphics updates, new stuff, and emphasis in PC (dust’s equivalent of sov), we were excited that the future was finally here! A future that would separate Dust from its peers as something unique.

    Uprising cometh: It was an enormous step BACKWARDS. The new items ranged from horrendously overpowered to horrendously underpowered. Hit detection, server latency, all the way down to basic pointing the end of your gun at someone was pushed back at least three expansions in quality. And, to top it all off, PC was so prone to lag and node crashes it could hardly be called a feature.

    And then it released as a “full-game”.

    The EVE equivalent would be a 2 second server delay on normal 1 on 1’s, the introduction of completely overpowered ships to be flown at the exclusion of everything else, and the removal of tidi and reinforced nodes so that the server crashed on any fleet fight over 50.

    As you can imagine what such a setback would do to the EVE community, you can only imagine what it did to the budding Dust. It is why “Dust is Dead” and why fewer and fewer players log in. Dust didn’t die simply to design oversights or a lack of competitive features, it died to horrendously incompetent mismanagement.

    As a fanboy, I hope they can revive it someday

    July 18, 2013 at 7:39 pm Reply
  13. Posting as guest

    You should go back to WoW you don’t understand dust or eve at all.

    July 18, 2013 at 7:49 pm Reply
  14. Cloora

    I came prepared to laugh at the horrible-ness that is Gevlon Goblin articles, I left impressed at a decent idea. And I play DUST and EVE

    July 18, 2013 at 7:54 pm Reply
  15. Dirk MacGirk

    Goblin is a bad and should be kicked from his corp for not having his comms set up (as he is supposed to) before it is time to get in the fleet.
    As for the DUST plex/aurum/isk stuff – Either CCP doesn’t want intermingling of currency or it just hasn’t come yet. But I don’t believe they have ruled it out in the future.

    July 18, 2013 at 9:22 pm Reply
  16. Fastus Atrox

    I disagree with some of your assumptions and your conclusion for transferring AUR and ISK between EVE and Dust. AUR needs to be sourced only from DUST (but it can and should be able to freely be traded to and from EVE), and ISK can probably be freely traded between DUST and EVE.

    There are two premises that I am working from:
    1) For DUST to be financially viable for CCP, real money (read AUR) needs to be consumed within DUST. This real money is what pays DUST server costs, bandwidth bills, and developer salaries.
    2) For Sony to agree to transfers between DUST and EVE, Sony needs to be able to take their cut of real money. This means that any currency that translates to “real money” that is consumed in DUST needs to first pass through Sony’s store.

    Since ISK isn’t “Real Money”, you are probably okay transferring it freely between DUST and EVE. ISK is earned in Dust fighting battles, and can be farmed by using lower meta level gear (or just AUR bought gear), ISK in EVE is earned by ratting/missions. They are both pretty analogous.

    For DUST to be viable, there needs to be ways to spend AUR *bought* in DUST. An important note, it’s not too important that this AUR is actually spend in DUST, it’s perfectly fine to spend it in EVE as well.

    Some ideas on how to get AUR to be spent:
    * Spending AUR lets eve players invade random PI command centers, and if your mercs win, you control, or can destroy the PI command center.
    * I really like your IHUB idea, high end PVP would highly encourage all the mercs using the best (read AUR bought) prototype gear/vehicles.
    * Eve piloted MCCs can be used to board & destroy (and defend) IHUBs and SBUs in Nullsec warfare
    * Add a DUST PVE component, and let an eve land some marines at an NPC site attached to incursions or WHs.

    July 18, 2013 at 9:44 pm Reply
    1. silver

      That one is aiming in the right direction. Dust isn’t dieing its just not finished. They could have stayed in beta and it may have been the better decision to do so.
      The employees at CCP are paid with the current income. Ofc. more profit would be fine but thats the luxury you have if you have a product that pays your bills: Your second product doesn’t need to be an instant success.

      There is many room for improvements in this game and it surely isn’t mainstream yet. But those calling it doomed without insight to the financial structure of the project could stop asking there crystal balls.

      Eve didn’t allow the empire building from beginning but it thrived to were it is now over time. CCP has proven to have a long breath, if they can keep that for DUST too many things are possible. And some Day Dust could be the right game for more people. The other franchise have a lot more experience but they are also very used out by now.

      July 19, 2013 at 8:07 am Reply
    2. justpassingby

      This entire post would mean the death of eve, because eve is eve and if a component such as what you are shiting on about was to be implemented? It would mean the richest people in eve could overwhelm even the most (militaristically) powerful alliances in eve, with 5 fucking mercs. lawl. And all the while actual eve players would have to sit idly by and play a game of poker or spin in station while their mercs take the fucking ihug or command centres.
      Get your retard off lol get off the stage… boooooooooohoohoooooooo

      July 23, 2013 at 2:14 am Reply
      1. Jeff

        Dust only affects in eve factional warfare, which the majority of eve players dont give a **** about. You could never ‘flip’ an ihub defended by 1000
        alliance members with just five mercs, because dust mercs can only fight in factional warfare systems, not real 0.0 systems.

        August 31, 2013 at 12:12 pm Reply
  17. DOA

    One problem i see is the eve/dust connection is not as important at this stage as solid mechanics. The hardcore competitive players move on to more engaging games, because at the heart of it all an immersive and balanced gameplay will get you more loyal fans than the promised dust-eve connection. This little AUR idea doesnt work if the only people playing dust are 10 experienced talented mercs and a few hundred random new players.

    CCP seems to have designed this game for eve players with a eve time frame. which is a pretty horrible idea. Lots of fps have a habit or rolling out rebalancing patches frequently throughout the months after release. fix the bad mechanics, fix the bad graphics, weapon balance is VERY important in a free to play game more than any other FPS. then once you have a solid foundation you can devote lots of time and resources to other things. but if the game just sucks then nobody will wait around and the new and improved dust will be enjoyed by a hundred dust bunnies because everyone else already moved on.

    In a game with fixed player counts and a skillpoint system requiring them to “grind” in order to stay competitive (skillpoint wise) those people that left may never come back simply because of that. regardless of how awesome the late stage dust may be the concept of grinding for weeks before you have access to competitive gear and good support skills is definitely a deterrent. People dont need to throw money at dust to satisfy their need for competition, They can pick up any number of polished shooters start the game with “milita guns” and run around smashing guys with 4 billion stars or whatever X game uses for a trivial ranking system. No need for a rough grind just to keep up. No microtransactions. Which is another thing that makes me laugh. If ccp knew anything about the console market its that they hate it even worse than eve players do.

    ill be amazed if this game turns around. the skillpoint system alone is a barrier that keeps people from returning after “wasting time” playing more entertaining games

    July 18, 2013 at 11:13 pm Reply
  18. you should stop now

    “they could even introduce IHUB flip, where the hull-damaged IHUB can be invaded by marines and the system instantly changes hands keeping its sov level instead of just blow up.”

    You shouldn’t be allowed to give suggestions about this game. oops sorry guys are 1000 man fleet just lost to 5 dudes on an Xbox oh well.

    July 18, 2013 at 11:42 pm Reply
  19. The Vet

    Is DUST still running?

    July 19, 2013 at 1:04 am Reply
  20. Name

    It fails to reach that crowd because they aimed for a casual console market that’s flooded with alternatives designed to be played casually. They wanted to aim for a separate market of players but aimed so poorly and so off base it’s failure should not be a surprise to anyone. You sell the foamy-mouth, jibbering crowd of impatient Console FPS gamers a slow like EVE product. It’s like trying to sell religion at a brothel.

    July 19, 2013 at 3:48 am Reply
  21. Heyjoe

    DUST isn’t doing well. The reason is widely accepted: It was never made available to PC gamers, the same market of gamers that actually play Eve.

    July 19, 2013 at 4:29 am Reply
  22. LoLz

    He even admits to being too stupid to figure out how to get teamspeak to work, who better to put in charge of your finances?

    July 19, 2013 at 6:44 am Reply
  23. I β™₯ ( . Y . )

    I don’t know how something that stupid can breathe

    July 19, 2013 at 8:04 am Reply
  24. qwero

    2-3 years outdated graphics? more like 6-7 years outdated. it looks like a pc game from 2007.

    July 19, 2013 at 11:07 am Reply
  25. Pregnant Wombat

    I wish I could tell you guys how I feel about dust. However, I don’t own a PS3, and I probably never will, considering the new consoles are coming out. I still haven’t fully decided which console I’ll get. At a bare minimum, we are looking at christmas time before I even buy a new console… and even then 50% chance that I don’t get with playstation, but rather Xbox One. I’m still waiting to see what each company starts to completely offer. So why the hell would you release DUST when everyone knew for years that this would probably be the 2nd to last or last year for consoles. Why did they pick playstation? They singled out even more people than ever. I’m not knocking playstation, but i only know of one friend in real life that even owns one, and he’s pissed off that everyone else uses Xbox. Then on top of that, the graphics on the game are terrible. All you have to do is just compare Planetside to it. They should have bought the rights to planetside and used those guys to design the game. Let’s be honest, this was a terrible idea from the start. You picked the wrong console, the wrong time to reveal the game, you picked the wrong game creators to make it, and then you picked the wrong demographic to advertise it to.
    It wasn’t just a bad idea to do what they did, it was a shitstorm of bad ideas. Is it fixable? Maybe, but they need to do a complete overhaul on everything they decided to do with the game. Just compare what you do to COD, and at least do what they do right. You don’t have to be them, but you at least can’t fuck up more than they do. I mean come on.

    July 19, 2013 at 3:51 pm Reply
    1. Pregnant Wombat

      Just to top off one last thing. If they would have released this to PC and MAC (the same computers they use now for Eve) they probably wouldn’t be doing awesome, but they would be doing a whole lot better. At least I would have had a machine than I could use to even play the game. You know the audience that even knows this game exists. Most people I know don’t even know the game exists unless they kept up with EVE.

      July 19, 2013 at 3:54 pm Reply
  26. Piral

    may the dust settle in peace

    July 23, 2013 at 4:38 am Reply

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