ships

Good morning space adventurers!

IF YOU WANT TO CRITICIZE THIS PROPOSAL PLEASE READ THE EXPLANATION BELOW FIRST <3 Okay so I'm going to give you the numbers first, then do some text walling below to try and explain why we arrived where we did. Medium Rails (all sizes and metas): +15% Rate of Fire +15% Damage Multiplier -15% Tracking Speed Medium Beams: +25% Damage Multiplier -10% Tracking Speed Medium Artillery: +10% Rate of Fire -5% Tracking So the basic idea is that we're increasing damage by quite a lot for all medium long range turrets, while also lowering their tracking a little bit. From a high level, the goal here is to make long range weapons valuable enough that people are able to use them for both PVP and PVE without being laughed at. This is hard to accomplish without stepping heavily on the toes of either large weapons or short-range medium weapons. We felt that a large damage increase was absolutely necessary for there to be any chance of seeing increased use, but the higher damage goes the more pressure gets put on other weapon systems. By making tracking speed a bit worse we preserve a lot of the advantage that medium short-range guns bring, while also making medium long-range guns a great choice verse large guns in many situations. To understand why that last part is true, its VERY important that you understand how tracking works in EVE. I want to use an example here to help illustrate: The tracking speed on a standard Neutron Blaster Talos with Null loaded is .0794 The tracking speed on a new 250mm Railgun Deimos with Antimatter loaded will be .0304 It looks like the Talos tracks 3x as well as the Deimos. In reality, because of the role Signature Resolution plays, the Deimos will actually track moving targets about 19% better than the Null Talos. A real tracking number that combines tracking speed and resolution would look like this: Real tracking on standard Neutron Blaster Talos with Null loaded is .0001985 Real tracking on a new 250mm Railgun Deimos with Antimatter loaded is .0002432 If you want to make this kind of comparison for other ships and situations, divide tracking speed by the signature resolution of the gun and compare the resulting numbers. If you want to see an awesome in-depth explanation for tracking, I recommend reading THIS BLOG by Azual Skoll.

One of the discussions we had with the CSM on this topic (there were a lot) revolved around a situation where you get to choose which ship to bring to a fight where you will be shooting at Talwars. Do you want a new medium long-range gun ship, or an Attack BC with large short-range guns. So I made a DPS graph here showing three fits: a 200mm Rail Thorax, a 250mm Rail Deimos, and a Neutron Talos, all of which have 2 tracking enhancers fit. The situation shown would be if the Talwar has MWD on and is moving at full speed at an angle of 60 degrees (hopefully fairly average, though it will vary a lot). You can see what that looks like here:

DAMAGE GRAPH

There are of course a lot of other reasons to bring medium long-range ships over large like price, speed, resilience, and the option to shoot to much longer ranges. Overall we are still a tad worried about power creep here, but hopefully this will put medium guns in a healthy place in relation to their competition.

Be sure to check out the HEAVY ASSAULT CRUISER REBALANCE as well as many of those ships are affected by this change and vice versa

As always, looking forward to feedback.
CCP Rise

7 Comments

  1. Justin Cody

    so you compare an un-penalized medium gun on a ship with no tracking bonii to a penalized large gun on a ship with bonuses designed to counteract that penalty? Why not show difference with antimatter? Why not show difference with void or all ammo types on a bar graph.

    false premise has been set up. Huzzah. Don’t get me wrong I like the changes but using a Deimos as the example instead of an eagle. After all of this time you should at least be trying to use the Eagle as the example. But obviously it will still blow and be slower than the Talos and do less damage and still be shit.

    July 18, 2013 at 6:10 pm Reply
    1. Justin Cody

      the 6th mid is nice though

      July 18, 2013 at 6:11 pm Reply
  2. Lasernuts

    Again no love for the caldari side. CCP is “Nerf heavy missile range/damage and buff the guns to the point they can easily go toe to toe with the old heavy missile setup.”

    July 18, 2013 at 6:19 pm Reply
  3. Whoitmayconcern

    Why pick a Talos for medium weapon examples when it can fir large weaponry?

    July 18, 2013 at 8:53 pm Reply
  4. CCP SMOKES CRACK

    Tracking is the reason these weapons don’t get used, it actually has very little to do with their damage. Many of them can barely hit a faction cruiser when it’s slow boating at a right angle to them. Let alone be able to defend itself whatsoever from tackle.

    Think about a well trained faction frig with skirmish links and cheap speed and agility implants, we’re talking +9k per second, with a merlin,prop heat,links, and less then 40 mill in implants I can get +7k per second. In a straight run these can close the distance on anything using medium guns from outside of lock range to scram range in 10 seconds or less. Obviously, the frig will maintain some angle to the what is shooting at them, even if this increased the travel time to 15 seconds. With how bad these weapons track now they aren’t used because of how easy it is to “get under their guns”, this is retarded, you just nerfed tracking enhancers and now nerfing these weapons were they needed help the most will just make them even worse (if that’s possible)

    You can give them 100% damage and they will still be terrible, because the cruisers they fit on don’t have crazy lock range, and these weapons and the ammo they use can’t apply their damage in most situations. You can’t be far enough to really snipe, and you have to be close enough that tackle can run you down quickly.

    By lowering the tracking on these weapons, they will only be able to hit battle ships, or smaller ships when they aren’t moving at all. Why do you think people put blasters on a talos and use pulse lasers with scorch on oracles, and then fit them for the longest range they can squeeze out. Obviously the damage is a big part, but the reason they aren’t using beams or rails is BECAUSE THE TRACKING IS SO BAD THEY CAN’T HIT ANYTHING, EVER.

    July 18, 2013 at 11:41 pm Reply
  5. Jesus Christ

    Arty munnins will be sooooooooooo much better then what they are now. 50% sig radious and + 10% rof with a low slot to fill up. Fuck yea. love these changes on the hacs + weapon systems

    July 18, 2013 at 11:50 pm Reply
  6. smarter than this retard

    dood who wrote this article is a complete fucking idiot. why the hell would you use a talos to shoot at something 60km away with a sig radius the size of a cruiser? your graph is dumb, real pvp’ers know range, optimal, and chances to hit by quick glances at the grid and the targets speed. A tlos isnt going to hit a ship with a sig radius of 150 moving 1700 m/s, and who the fuck goes that fast in an ab cruiser you idiot? microwarpdrives affect your sig radius, so again, person who wrote this is a fucking idiot. do not waste your time thinking there is some elgit statistic because everything he linked is WRONG. god you are a fucking idiot.

    July 22, 2013 at 5:14 am Reply

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