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 “It ain’t over ’til the fat lady sings.”
    – Ralph Carpenter

For the most part Kirith Kodachi is a conservative writer.

Which is not to say he goes clubbing with Anne Colter or sits down to poutine with Glenn Beck. No, what I mean is that Kirith is a thoughtful writer, not given to fiery rhetoric and an excess of hyperbole.  Kirith thinks twice before clicking on the “Publish” button over at Inner Sanctum of the Niniveh.  He has become something of a senior statesman among bloggers; a sane voice of reason when tempers flare and egos collide in the Eve Online community. 

Heck, he even has his own snow-globe.

However, even Plato stepped in the rhetorical dog-shit now and again. And when that happened his buddies at the lyceum didn’t just pass the wine cup around again and pretend they didn’t smell the logical fallacies. No, indeed. When that happened a philosophical throw-down would ensue and Plato would be called upon to either defend his thesis before his peers or go outside and scrape said thesis off his metaphorical shoe.

In that same spirit, I must take issue with the Canadian Sage’s recent post ‘Prognosis’ with regard to the ongoing war in Fountain between the Clusterfuck Coalition (CFC) and the allied forces of Test Alliance Please Ignore, the N3 coalition, the Retirement Club and small host of other alliances. Kirith had spent some time looking over the situation and came up with a template for victory – a performance checklist of sorts, describing critical ways in which the Allied forces must execute in order win against the CFC:  

  • Excellent participation rates
  • Ship reimbursement program humming along
  • Finances in good shape
  • Allies committed and coordinated
  • Enemies distracted by attacks from third parties

Holding his assessment of the state of the war and the Allies’ execution of it against this template he came to the following conclusion:

“Test is screwed.”

I know. Not the sort of utterance once expects from a man usually given to nuance. In fact, Kirith was so bearish on the Test’s position he recommended they cut their losses and extract themselves from the war lest they lose organizational integrity. 

“If I were TEST leadership, I’d be thinking about my exit strategy at this point before this war grinds your alliance apart.”

Now, it should be pointed out that before doing his research for this piece, Kirith wasn’t convinced an actual sov war was going on in Fountain at all. As recently as a week ago he was wondering whether or not Fountain wasn’t just another Delve ‘Thunderdome’ with the combatants using the region as a playground for good large fleet fights; sans any desire to actually contest sov or any meaningful enmity between the combatants. Sort of the ‘controlled PvP’ concept put forward by PL and CFC as an alternative to sov warfare in the pre-Odyssey days.

Anyone who’s been paying close attention will have known what Kirith discovered last week: There is an honest to goodness sov war going on in Fountain. In fact, a key point that Kirith seems to have missed is the nature of the war in progress. This war is not merely a push for additional space or interstellar goodies. Leadership on both sides of this fight want nothing less than the extinction of their primary enemies. This, my friends, is a death struggle. Neither side is going to let the other walk away to fight another day. For the principles, there are only two ways out of this war: With your shield, or on it.

The leadership of Test and Nulli want Goonswarm dead. Dead, as in no longer among the quick. Dead, as in singing with the choir celestial. Dead, as in making smores over the flames of a burning Mittanigrad. Test and Nulli’s rank and file seem highly motivated toward the same end. This is not a case of senior leadership driving a personal fight of which the membership want no part. Kirith rightly points to the internal fund raiser Test recently held to stabilize their finances as an indication of weakness. However, in so doing he misses entirely the enthusiasm Test’s rank and file showed for the effort and how quickly and successfully it met its goals. These are not players ready to turn tail and run. These are highly motivated foot-soldiers with a fierce and personal grudge against Goonswarm.  Nulli Secunda, for it’s part, has been quite upfront with their position on Goonswarm: Their self-proclaimed raison d’etre is Goonswarm’s destruction. ‘Nuff said.

Likewise, CFC leadership does not merely want Fountain. They want Test Alliance well and truly obliterated as a rallying point for anti-Goon resistance.  CFC leadership has had both Test Alliance Please Ignore and Pandemic Legion firmly in their cross-hairs for some time, and that has not changed. Goonswarm will not abide the presence of any entity capable of challenging their hegemony over nullsec; a hegemony that is an essential prerequisite to their longer term plans for economic dominion over New Eden.  At present, Test is the lynchpin of any such challenge to CFC, and must therefore be extirpated. Further, by having the temerity to challenge Goonswarn directly, both Test and Nulli must be utterly laid low in order to serve as an object lesson and cement the CFC’s reputation as an irresistible force in order to discourage future challenges from other quarters. 

Under the heading of ‘Allies committed and coordinated’ Kirith makes much of public statements by Pandemic Legion representatives, particularly in the context of a Crossing Zebras podcast, as to the degree to which PL is committed and how well they’re coordinating with the rest of the Allies.

First of all, as I commented on Kirith’s website, it should be recalled that the hosts of Crossing Zebras are CFC members who have a vested interest in the outcome of the current conflict.  Thus it is notable that their departure from the fairly dull and mostly harmless CSM/CCP interviews, which have the virtue of being safe and CFC content free, is an interview with Pandemic Legion members saying uncomplimentary things about Test Alliance and leading one to believe PL is ready to abandon the war against CFC should PL stop having fun. This is not to say that propaganda was what motivated Xanfer and Jeg (who I quite like, Zander’s fashion sense notwithstanding). In fact the content itself doesn’t deliver much in the way of new information for those who’ve been paying attention (see below). However, the timing of its delivery is of interest, coming as it did in the midst of a CFC push to take a second constellation in Fountain, following a series of set-backs for Test and its allies.

Secondly, as I’ve reported previously, Pandemic Legion has not been terribly committed to the Allies from the the get-go. Their participation to date has been, shall we say, episodic, and not merely due to a lack of coordination. Pandemic is now and has always been in Eve for the ‘pride parade’. While they play hard and are very good at what they do, they are grasshoppers as opposed to Goonswarm’s ants, preferring to gambol in the glades of Summer and move on at the approach of Autumn’s chill.  Mindful of this, CFC’s diplomatic corp will have been working tirelessly to emphasize how cold the Winter will get for PL should they dedicate themselves more than marginally against the CFC and end up on the losing side. Unless and until the present tide turns again and the trench warfare in Fountain turns into a march on Deklein, I don’t anticipate Pandemic Legion will battle in earnest for the Allies. If, on the other hand, Fountain turns into a route for the Allies, I expect PL will pull out altogether.

Having said all this, there’s no doubt the tides of war have been running in CFC’s favor. The Allies continue to fight the war on CFC’s terms which, as I’ve written previously, has allowed the CFC to concentrate their forces in the Fountain staging areas and given the CFC diplomatic and psyops corps plenty of time to do their work. At the same time, the fall-off in secondary enfilading fronts against the CFC has permitted the CFC home-front to operate relatively unmolested and avoid the sort of perception of vulnerability that brings on the dog-pile.

But barring unforeseen misfortune for either side, the ‘Fountain’ war is far from over. Despite recent CFC successes the Allied forces have prevented the fight from becoming a rout and and have limited their losses to the Centaur and part of the Pegasus constellations. Pegasus is heavily contested at present; CFC having just today burned through ten Territory Control Units in a close-run attempt to take 9-VO0Q.

If the status quo holds, who wins this war may be decided by who has the will to stand against the other and keep punching the longest.  In such a fight, who is best led and best coordinated matters far less than the collective will of the rank and file pilots.  It is the sort of fight in which the clock could as easily run against the CFC, where to date it has run primarily against the Allies.  Offensives in which the invaders are not heavily invested in the outcome, particularly those against a determined foe, tend not to end well for the invader in the long run.  Despite their leadership’s desire for an end to Test Alliance and access to Fountain’s moons, the CFC rank and file are generally quite comfortable and well-fed in their existing territories.  The war’s justification on CFC’s side is primarily financial, aimed at acquiring additional income streams.

“More money for the Mittani”, while an honest battle cry, is not one that’s going to keep the CFC pilots enthusiastic about fleeting up for grinding sov fights. 

But status quos can be fragile things, and Test and its allies are battling with their backs to the wall. There is no exit strategy for Test Alliance in this war except kill or be killed and if CFC can score a knock-out punch or open a significant second front against the Allies, resistance in Fountain could collapse along with Test Alliance itself. 

Time will tell. The clock ticks. The winds of war blow ever unpredictably; their small, subtle winds the pins ‘pon which the great outcomes swing. Meanwhile, somewhere in the depths of nullsec, a fat lady checks her watch and waits patiently for her cue. 

Tricky things, prognoses.

– Mord Fiddle

About the Author: Mord Fiddle’s writings are an invitation to high tea in a world of rave parties. His readers gather at http://fiddlersedge.blogspot.com/ for thoughtful analysis, daring prose, deep insights, and Mord’s tendency to use words not writ nor spoken conversationally since Middle English went out of fashion.

87 Comments

  1. DrkyDrky

    Unlike the Tribute war, the battle of 9-V0 has shown that the fleet coordination of CFC is far superior compared to entities like NCdot.

    The situation has drastically changed, CFC members have became battle-hardened elites. They’re no longer dumb noobs that welps their ships due to same mistake over & over again. TEST/N3 on the otherhand are fighting like CFC of the Tribute war.

    Keep treating CFC like noobs if you want to lose the war.

    July 17, 2013 at 10:45 pm Reply
    1. non-goon

      So this is what you tell yourself to sleep at night, he?

      July 17, 2013 at 10:46 pm Reply
    2. Dave The Rave

      You have become the same elitist pricks that BOB was back in the day, this will be your undoing, one system doesnt make a win, its funny how the comparisons align.

      Goons and pets are crowing about taking their first station system (5 weeks) and yet how many station systems have they lost already? i seem to remember goons being gifted systems at the start of this little game, please no “didnt want those stations anyway” it fools no one :)

      July 17, 2013 at 11:31 pm Reply
      1. GrouchyOldGamer

        Less of a didn’t want them, more of a couldn’t keep them. We fucked up the start of the war, its no secret.

        July 17, 2013 at 11:32 pm Reply
      2. Dirk Hardpeck

        Are you capable of looking at a map and understanding that in invasion from one side doesnt work with attacks coming from all directions to all directions. You worthless pile of shit, look at a fountain map, find B-D and notice how SOV is flipping in Foutain starting form that point.

        July 18, 2013 at 12:22 am Reply
        1. Dave The Rave

          Ha ha ha ha “worthless piece of shit”? that is awfully harsh, it seems the truth with no spin has a bitter taste for you uneducated goon scrubs.

          July 18, 2013 at 7:22 am Reply
      3. Sorry, too much

        The problem that you are now facing is that you crow about BS so often that you have lost your credibility, even here at EVE24. Probably the best bet would be to register a new posting name or something because everyone thinks you are wrong even if what you say might make since, and this group really, really does want to believe your message, but just can’t anymore.

        July 18, 2013 at 3:40 am Reply
    3. slo

      cfc still welp there fleets doing the same thing over and over again. and it took them a month just to get a station system, so stop being retarded.

      July 18, 2013 at 12:33 am Reply
      1. post harder mr. testi

        Let me guess you didn’t want the sov in those 10 non-station systems anyway and they are already replaced right? (9 now that GSF dropped a station in one)

        July 18, 2013 at 1:07 am Reply
        1. anon

          Don’t forget the (god only knows how many) systems they have lost in the east, including important station systems.

          July 18, 2013 at 6:56 am Reply
    4. anonymous

      You are still noobs but test are and even admit they are some of the worst pvp players in eve

      July 18, 2013 at 12:46 am Reply
    5. lol

      Nobody in CFC has any PVP skill whatsoever, if they did then they would not be in CFC.

      CFC 99/100 loses fleet fights except against bads like them. Blobbing and coming up even is not a win nor skill.

      Go grind structures you bad.

      July 18, 2013 at 4:26 am Reply
  2. ~

    “More money for the Mittani”, while an honest battle cry, is not one
    that’s going to keep the CFC pilots enthusiastic about fleeting up for
    grinding sov fights.

    What will keep CFC pilots fleeting up is Test and company continuing to fleet up.

    July 17, 2013 at 10:58 pm Reply
    1. Fountainwarbestwar

      Eh, in case you havn’t noticed, the CFC is not dropping in numbers on the field, your side however is different.

      July 18, 2013 at 12:35 am Reply
      1. Ackilles_Shadowfire

        The first part of that guys message was a quote taking from the article, the second part was him explaining how the article was wrong. Pretty sure he is in the CFC with us.

        As an aside, from the view of a Fwedditor, it seems that the CFC average player moral has reached a rather high point. Very rarely do i see or hear anything near discontent and when I do it is about a particular situation and not the war in general.

        The only thing test+pets could do to hurt CFC moral would be to just refuse to come out for two weeks. But at that point we would have captured the entirety of fountain uncontested and it wouldn’t matter.

        July 18, 2013 at 2:50 am Reply
  3. GrouchyOldGamer

    I’m curious why you believe CFC wants to deconstruct TEST or indeed views ‘Test [is] the lynchpin of any […] challenge to CFC’?

    It’s an opinion that is at odds with reality.

    TEST has a strong internal culture, if they lost Fountain it wouldn’t destroy them. Living in a region isn’t why TEST exists. All of the alliances in EVE that have demonstrate longevity have taken their lumps; GSF, RZR, Nulli, NC. etc. Goons have not painted this as a war to end TEST, let’s not pretend that’s the reason.

    I also tend to believe that you are overplaying TEST’s role as the lynchpin of a Goon ending machine. I like TEST, one day we’ll be friends again and it’ll be a hoot. However; TEST have some fundamental structural problems that this war has demonstrated which were obvious during the HBC and are once again highlighted here.

    Forget financial issues they simply do not have the critical mass of block level FCs to lead a major campaign. Sure they have superstar FCs like Dingo; but not enough FCs of his calibre. TEST have had to turn to NC. and Nulli block level FCs to coordinate activities; if PGL or Vince aren’t involved things generally don’t work out well.

    One of the reasons TEST line members are desperate for PL to finish the AT is because in the HBC they were experts at managing the TEST war machine. Any alliance that has to outsource their campaign leadership aren’t going to lead a Goon ending event.

    The war has a long way to go. It’s going to be a summer of great content and shit postings. EVE online at it’s best.

    July 17, 2013 at 11:34 pm Reply
    1. Fountainwarbestwar

      ^ Agreed

      July 18, 2013 at 12:34 am Reply
    2. Mord Fiddle

      It may be an opinion at odds with common opinion, bit not one at odds with reality. Now, I can connect the dots for you, but what fun would that be? The importance of the CFC to the anti-Goon forces is self-evident if you know where to look.

      Consider this a challenge. See if you can find the answer to why Tests destruction is so important to the CFC.

      July 18, 2013 at 1:51 am Reply
      1. GrouchyOldGamer

        It isn’t important and I don’t think you’ll find anyone in GSF who thinks TEST can be destroyed.

        July 18, 2013 at 5:54 am Reply
    3. At Odds With Reality

      Firstly: this whole game is about being “at odds with reality”. Food for thought.

      So your saying once Goons take Fountain they’ll be content to go back to scamming people in high sec and whatever else you nerds do in your parents basement to justify your existence to humanity. Seems illogical to me especially when this whole war was spawned on the foundation of greed. Dont get me wrong I have no pony in this race, I am just a spectator enjoying the fireworks until the new and final season of “Breaking Bad” commences.

      Regardless of intentions, I think everyone is forgetting the elephant in the room: “90% of EvE hates Goons”. There is not a player in EvE who hasn’t had a personal experience or heard stories of scamming and verbal abuse at the hands of Goons, not to mention “Burn Jita”. Players sport an easy breezy attitude of “we dont care that much, its just a game” but our civilization loves to see large arrogant entities fall whether they be empires, celebrities, the Lakers, etc. At the very least it’s entertainment for our Roman tendencies at most its Justice served in a world where evil and greed prevail.

      The fact is Goons created a monster, one that ultimately will grow beyond their control. Even Goons themselves admit their whole purpose is to demean and harvest the tears of other players. Lets face it: they’ve done a stellar job of fulfilling that mission but to what end. Is ultimate victory possible if everyone disdains you? The answer can only be found in history where other such empires have unwittingly defeated themselves. I would surmise that regardless of who wins this particular war, Goons will ultimately crumble at the hands of everyone. Even now their propaganda echoes against the walls of an empty courtyard, no longer the former underdogs of the BOB campaign, this rhetoric is as isolated as the Goons themselves. For Goons, redemption is the only currency that will secure its future and that unto itself is everything “unGoon”.

      July 18, 2013 at 9:40 pm Reply
  4. Rusty Boon

    The latest battle of 9-V was interesting, it was swift and decisive. Test lost their station and were steam rolled in the process. They had little to no Allies on the field as well. Bringing an AHAC and DOMI fleet to fight what should have been blatantly obvious to what we the CFC were going to field. Left to their own devices Test cannot stand on their own as so they proclaimed shortly before this whole war started. Its like they are not even trying anymore.

    July 17, 2013 at 11:34 pm Reply
  5. briancnelson

    Test is charging blues for repairs at the stations they are defending. This in a battle where they aren’t even the majority of the pilots defending their own system, in a time zone where they claimed they were totally dominant.

    Oh and SOLAR is eating their eastern allies alive every time they come back to help.

    Basically, every point in Kirith’s recipe is going smoothly for CFC at this point, and poorly for TEST and friends. The odds of that changing are nil.

    If you are relying on time zone to save you, and despite a major alarm clock red pen CTA, can’t outnumber CFC, you aren’t going to win. If that doesn’t change, then progress by the CFC is inevitable.

    It is unlikely to change. TEST’s participation has pretty much peaked in this war 3 weeks ago. Their allies are already wondering why they bother, other than disliking Goons, and they’ll have to decide if they hate Goons more than they like holding their own space, and soon.

    July 17, 2013 at 11:50 pm Reply
  6. Grammer Nazi

    From what I’ve read before it seems every article is written by adults, not children. So please fucking proof read your shit.

    July 18, 2013 at 12:27 am Reply
    1. anon

      try proofreading your own, “grammer” nazi…

      July 18, 2013 at 2:53 am Reply
    2. Mord Fiddle

      Proof read my shit???

      Ewww

      July 18, 2013 at 3:41 pm Reply
  7. Fountainwarbestwar

    As a CFC line-member i don’t feel any of this “LETS NOT STOP AT KILLING TEST, WE NEED TO GET THEM OUT OF THIS GAME” nonsense. I think we, and i think i speak for the majority of both linemembers in this war, are just enjoying ourselves. Lets see what happens

    July 18, 2013 at 12:32 am Reply
    1. Mord Fiddle

      “Let’s see what happens.”

      Just so.

      July 18, 2013 at 1:55 am Reply
  8. Rholak

    You claim that Test’s “grunts” are just as committed to fighting as their leaders, but the evidence doesn’t support that, I have personally watched as test fleets have been getting smaller each fight. Even Nulli has admited that fleet numbers are down in the coalition.

    July 18, 2013 at 12:39 am Reply
  9. obo

    “If the status quo holds, who wins this war may be decided by who has the
    will to stand against the other and keep punching the longest. ” The CFC will still be throwing punches when their enemy starts packing the bags for higsec, its happened again and again, and its going to happen again, you can’t fight a coalition willing to measure the length of a war in months/years if want to measure your fight against them in weeks, by doing so you set yourself up to fail and all they have to do is keep shooting and wait for you to realize they aren’t going to stop shooting until your dead or gone.

    July 18, 2013 at 12:59 am Reply
    1. Mord Fiddle

      Prhaps your crystal ball is better than mine. Clock’s ticking. I guess we’ll see.

      July 18, 2013 at 1:54 am Reply
      1. Shayne O'Blisk

        No, but history is a guide here. Theres a lot of old alliances in the CFC (And a lot of newer ones), but the core (Goons, RZR, etc) have been around a long time now and faced down anihilation a number of times and kept punching. Thats the thing about the CFC, its got patience, a lot of it, and its got the ISK to back that up. All this conspiracy theorizing you hear about mittens RMTing is nothing more than that, conspiracy theories that have existed in multiple forms about multiple groups since the game started. Once upon a time it was about the russians, then it was about BOB, then it was about AAA, then it was about PL, then it was about the Goons, then it was about Test, and now its about Goons. But in almost all cases (There *was* some RMT stuff going on with a couple of russian corps back about 4-5 years ago, but largely the other russian corps hunted that shit down and ended it fast) , what was really going on is that its fecking expensive to run a nullsec empire if you want to fuel pos’s, jumpbridges and all the other expensive stuff, maintain a freighter network, reimburse and subsidize *all* ships, including Titans and super carriers, and so on. And apparently unlike Test,, the GSF/CFC has been fairly wise with its finances and this has allowed it to ride out the tech nerf with a big enough war chest to last a *long* time in a punch up. and thats the nub of things, as long as CFC grunts can keep getting new ships to fly, they’ll last as long as it takes. It doesn’t sound like Test has the war chest for that. I’m willing to believe test participation has more to do with not having the ships to match doctrine expectations rather than disillusionment (test need not be disillusioned yet, the war is still young). The CFC has done it before, and odds are good, they’ll do it again.

        And no, I see no evidence the CFC leadership wants to anihilate TEST. We just want fountain. I’m not even sure TEST membership wants to anihilate us either. Its just a game yo.

        July 18, 2013 at 5:59 am Reply
        1. Dave The Rave

          All speculation ofc, you’ve never had a enemy as big as this and neither side is showing any sign of letting up, like goons were losing early on they are winning a little more now, ebb and flow dear boy nothing more, we have a long way to go before this has concluded, in all honesty this post screams more of hope then any sort of fact.

          As for the thinking that RMT doesnt happen in major alliances, i think the whole of eve knows thats bollocks, ofc it happens ofc people get away with it, its been well documented even if not proven that its happened in the past, although i dont think all the shit about mittens RMT is true.

          Atleast i hope not anyways, even though i enjoy hating goons, they are certainly a lot i respect (the leadership anyways, most pilots are obnoxious little failcakes).

          July 18, 2013 at 7:38 am Reply
          1. Dumbledore

            I don’t think it’s a long way to go. After all, when the cascade starts, everything falls apart very quickly.

            July 18, 2013 at 7:46 am
          2. Dave The Rave

            Losing one big timer doesn’t make a cascade though, i might be wrong and ill be the first to admit it if proved so, but from the inside looking out there seems to be lots of fight left.

            July 18, 2013 at 8:31 am
          3. Shayne O'Blisk

            I think you should read up on our history a little more. At one point we had literally every 0.0 sov holders outside of the russians and the amarr/minmitar larpers (so we wardecced them just for shits and giggles) after us. In other words, we’ve fought *significantly* bigger enemies.

            July 18, 2013 at 8:45 am
  10. Spai

    This poster is sucking a nulli cock or is one. nulli dosent even have a decent dog in the race of fountain.
    do you really think that after test stabbing nulli in the back that all is forgotten? LMMFAO!

    July 18, 2013 at 1:21 am Reply
    1. Mord Fiddle

      I believe Nulli’s desire to put a shiv between Goonswarm’s ribs far exceeds any enmity they have for Test. The enemy of my enemy, and all that.

      July 18, 2013 at 12:46 pm Reply
      1. CFC Pony

        “The enemy of my enemy”
        Is next on the list.

        Anyone who doesn’t believe this hasn’t been paying attention to EVE 0.0 wars for basically forever.

        July 18, 2013 at 2:16 pm Reply
    2. Maru

      S2N leadership generally regards PL as more responsible for the loss of Delve than TEST, and as the fighting in the Drone Regions showed, S2N was quite happy to collaborate with PL. A lot of S2N leadership is actually rather fond of TEST and more than willing to shrug off the events of last summer as water under the bridge. After all, losing Delve convinced Nulli to finally break away from -A-, and because of that, they’re in a far stronger position now than they were a year ago.

      N3’s “dog in the race of Fountain” is that they don’t want to allow the CFC to stabilize their finances at a high level again. They want them starved out, or at the very least pared back, as part of a long-term program of attrition. When you form an entire coalition in expectation of another war against the CFC, these types of things are pretty compelling reasons to march.

      July 19, 2013 at 7:08 am Reply
  11. J

    I don’t see the a vitriolic feeling semanating from CFC line members towards TEST. That’s more of a projection of TEST members on their enemy, if anything.

    Perhaps that feeling could be elicited by The Mittani, et. al., but it isn’t there currently.

    July 18, 2013 at 3:04 am Reply
    1. random test grunt

      You can thank the obnoxious mittani for that sentiment.
      As a test member i have nothing against cfc or gsf line members, hell a year ago we were bro’s but Mittens ego destroys lots of things.

      July 18, 2013 at 4:43 am Reply
    2. Mord Fiddle

      J – I agree that the CFC rank and file are far less dedicated to the laying low of TEST than their leadership.

      July 18, 2013 at 12:43 pm Reply
  12. Arkady

    Well thought out article, perhaps you and kirith should try debate posts such as this in the future, as this and kiriths posts make for very good ” two sides of the same coin”

    +1

    July 18, 2013 at 4:11 am Reply
  13. Little Bee

    This was quite a good read, impressed by words choosen and spoken and would read again !! and this is comming from a TMC reader :)

    I think CFC got the chanse to build up their momentum and morale is or was nevr a problem in CFC.

    Most wars CFC fought always had terrible losses in titans and caps, many welped fleets week in week out.

    This war seems the CFC has matured, our FC’s have grown and matched the best of the best in what Eve Online has to offer.

    Pulling off great tactical moves that lead to crushing defeats against bigger numbers or even numbers.

    This isnt the same CFC that welps fleets, and laugh about it.

    Altough we can still laugh when we welp some ship like the 80 battleships 9 days ago :)

    But in general CFC has improved on all fronts and that makes it much harder for the enemy to win isk wars and keeping morale high.

    When you kill bee’s and see cfc fleets welping your line members will point and laugh everytime, when your line members are getting routed bya suposly bad coaltion they start to ask themselves wtf their leaders are doing and if they are competent enough themselves.

    This war the CFC is winning against all odds.
    What suprises me is that if PL had any desire to kill the CFC they would be there.
    They would be there giving it a full 100%, specialy now the CFC is kicking Fountain Defenders back and forth to stations and POS’s.
    I think PL knows this war is over and dont wanne damage their relation with CFC for future benefits.

    PL is smart and doesnt care about blues, not even NCdot who will be thrown infron of the lions without second taught or remorse.
    Just look at the Fountain Campaing yourself and see how PL doesnt seem to give a fuck how many brothers are dying in fire’s.

    Come August the morale of Fountain defenders will break and it will jusst be a sov grind with almost no oposition.
    Start of Wars are full off energy, once morale drops, participation down the drain, empty pockets, the CFC will load of the deathstar and give the final headshot.

    Again great read Mord <3

    July 18, 2013 at 7:47 am Reply
  14. Fartolio

    We fight, we hide, we hate and love. But single remainign fact is The Fat Lady is still unemployed. Good post. After much much bullshit i did read here.

    July 18, 2013 at 8:08 am Reply
  15. I just do not know

    Been keeping an eye on the war and certain key factors, the morale in the CFC is very high and they are now winning. PL are no longer fighting, I think that they are waiting for the CFC to use their supers and then they will pile in on the escalation, I noted PL talking in low sec local that they were bored and hunting in low sec, that is a ruse to put the CFC off their guard, seriously PL do you think the CFC will fall for that? Maybe they will, after all in Tribute they suddenly threw their super fleet at multiple systems to finish off the will of NCDOT to fight and it worked.
    All it needs is a massive whelp of the CFC super/titan fleet and things would change, thath is what the allies are playing for, I wonder if CFC will make that error…

    July 18, 2013 at 8:49 am Reply
    1. yoyo210

      PL has other problems to solve. they are the real looser of the tech nerf and the new R64 “buff”. they can’t compensate their massive income losses via R64 moons and renter fees. they picked up nearly every R64 moon in low sec that didn’t belong to one of the blocks but the outcome is still shit, old R64 stocks are massive and alchemy is destroying all dreams of income compensation via moons.

      renter space is also more work than expected. most anoying fact is that their renters pay cloaky fags 200-400 mISK/week so every fag in eve is moving to their space and farm them. makes their renter space not very attractive anymore. enough people have open bills with PL.

      July 18, 2013 at 9:10 am Reply
      1. I just do not know

        I noted that the systems were being rented at a starting price of 1bn a month, but I was expecting that the rent would be increased over time. Also I do not expect that PL will do anything to protect their renters against drops
        If stupid renters are paying that much to campers, its suicidal, and proves that PL does not have what it takes to reun a rental business, IT would actually look after their renters, I saw that a number of times. I cannot see PL or NCDOT doing that!
        Interesting points you raise there, I will adjust my thinking, I keep hoping that there is an all in cap fleet fight that destroys a huge number of supers and titans on both sides…

        July 18, 2013 at 9:24 am Reply
        1. Fartolio

          But idiots still love to pay PL for really nothing.

          July 18, 2013 at 9:33 am Reply
  16. Devore

    “Which is not to say he goes clubbing with Anne Colter or sits down to poutine with Glenn Beck.”

    If you’re going to shit on someone for no reason, at least have the decency to spell their name right.

    July 18, 2013 at 9:37 am Reply
    1. Shayne O'Blisk

      Anne “batshit loon” Coulter.

      July 18, 2013 at 9:57 am Reply
    2. Mord Fiddle

      Devore – I don’t believe that referencing Anne Coulter as a conservative icon constitutes having shat upon her. While you might think being called a conservative is a brutal insult, I expect Anne would not feel terribly maligned by the reference. In fact I think she’d be pleased . I’d considered Sarah Palin, but she’s a bit overused – and I understand Sarah’s not the ‘going clubbing’ type.

      However, I do appreciate your thoughtful correction with regard to the spelling of Ms Coulter’s name and will make the appropriate edit on my website.

      July 18, 2013 at 12:32 pm Reply
  17. Joseph Blade

    “Likewise, CFC leadership does not merely want Fountain. They want Test
    Alliance well and truly obliterated as a rallying point for anti-Goon
    resistance. CFC leadership has had both Test Alliance Please Ignore and
    Pandemic Legion firmly in their cross-hairs for some time, and that has
    not changed.”

    I’m curious if you can actually support this argument with quotes, facts, references?
    The only thing I’ve read is the goons stating they are in it to get the tasty moon tits because the old ones were all shriveled up. I haven’t read anything to date that calls for the complete destruction of either Test or PL so I’m curious on what grounds you are making this assertion.

    As for Test being in it for the total destruction of goons, although I am pretty sure they would not object to the idea, I haven’t seen any indication that they are intent on changing this from a defensive war into an offensive war. I don’t think you can assume winning a defensive war translates into being successful in an offensive war. For one, it will not be fought in AU timezone.

    overall the way this article is slanted, it is showing very clearly what you as the author want to happen but it seems completely unsubstantiated.

    July 18, 2013 at 10:50 am Reply
    1. Mord Fiddle

      The article merely states what the author thinks is the state of affairs. The fact that the article does not align with your own point of view does not mean that it is “slanted”, but merely that we disagree – assuming of course, that you are being as honest in your point of view as I am in mine.

      July 18, 2013 at 12:38 pm Reply
      1. Joseph Blade

        If it is an opinion then it is obviously fine (expected even) to be leaning towards a specific viewpoint or other. Though it would be helpful if you prefix the occasional sentence with “according to me” or “in my opinion” etc.
        even then some substantiation would be useful for the stronger claims.

        But the points I took issue with were stated as if they were facts.

        For Nulli at least you are stating that this is what they claim, which is something that can be verified.

        The only point of view that I have given (I think 😀 ofcourse I might not be aware of it) is that this war is less superserious than you make it out to be. From the information I’ve read on the different sites the main aim is money not higher causes

        July 18, 2013 at 1:51 pm Reply
        1. Mord Fiddle

          Oh, none of what I write is mere opinion. It is 100% steel-jacketed, unvarnished truth.

          July 18, 2013 at 6:15 pm Reply
  18. Rob

    I disagree.
    Kirith is simply saying what every other sane person looking at this war is saying. TEST are already out of cash, and pulling isk from their members to stay afloat. Fountain will continue to cost and eventually TEST will not be able to support their other regions and they will get picked apart. If you put this in economic terms of a company, it would be like having several investments all over the world. If one of them was costing you more than the rest of your business was capable of sustaining you would drop that investment and write it off.

    Holding on to fountain will only last so long. TEST will eventually lose it, perhaps to CFC, perhaps to N3, NC. or one of the other “allies”. pulling the resources from it and using those to reinforce other regions would seem to be like the strongest course of action. and CFC are unlikely to push beyond fountain at this time.

    July 18, 2013 at 10:54 am Reply
  19. Little Bee

    CFC the same as BoB ?
    Do you see Goons using a whip and trash talking against their coalition members ?
    Use them as pets and slaves use them to do the dirty work ?
    Molest them and drain them dry ?

    Dunno if you where there when BoB formed their mighty empire and ruled with iron fist They had much more arrogance then AAA ever had. and AA was arrogant to say the least :) respected but arrogant !

    BoB was hated even by their own kind.
    But not a single entity dared to opose them as they knew they would be raped and farmed out of null sec.

    Goons NC RA AAA PL and some others i sure forget sorry about that, these where the alliance’s that stood againt the tirany of BoB.
    And almost got totaly destroyed if it wasnt for there strong backbone.
    if that Titan nerf dint hit live we would have been obliterated in that war.
    The Titan nerf came just in time as Goons where about to leave Eve Online,
    Once the 1st Titan was killed from BoB the war took a massive turn around and Morale jumped trough the roof.

    Goons aint nothing like BoB, you can say Goons are the current evil, but you cannot compare a dictator to a free do what you wish Mittany mentality.

    Sure Null sec needs a villain, and this is currently The Mittani, but do not compare Sir Molle to The Mittani in the same sentence :)

    I bet you can ask any coalition member in the CFC how goons operate and if shit needs to get done they always take the lead, Grinding sov and they push out massive numbrs to get that shit done and dont order CFC members to do the dirty work.
    Dabigredboat is a fierce structure grinder, you know if you join boat you aint going to fight ships, your going to grind scuctures till your eyes bleed :)
    Boat tha madman :)

    No please guys, do not say CFC is BoB…..
    Read up the history of the great wars and get yourself a little educated how null sec was pre titans and with the 1st titans :)
    Its very awesome to read trough on a sunday morning with a waffle and a cup of coffe 😉

    July 18, 2013 at 12:18 pm Reply
    1. Snooki

      CFC isn’t BoB your right that this isn’t a fair comparison. What CFC has become in the sense that BoB was is the dominant powerbloc, the pilots/corps/alliances/coalitions with less will resent them. As well if said pilots/corps/alliances/coalitions have in there time in EVE been on the bottom of the CFC’s foot in the past then this will breed resentment as well.

      Over it’s life span CFC has made quite a few enemies, quite a few being all the pilots in TEST, N3 and a good portion of PL (which houses many ex-BoB pilots) and these pilots have waited years to get their shot at the prize. So in their eyes CFC is the new BoB in as much as the largest powerbloc in the game. The similarities don’t need to be anymore than that.

      July 18, 2013 at 2:06 pm Reply
      1. Tim

        Yep, CFC have made a load of enemies. And we’re having no problems fending all of you off.
        Didn’t want that station anyway?

        July 19, 2013 at 4:08 pm Reply
    2. Mord Fiddle

      No, Little Bee, CFC is not Bob. And I do not argue that this is the case anywhere in the article.

      July 18, 2013 at 2:45 pm Reply
    3. Mittani leader of carebears

      BOB was the bad boys of the bad boys. Fighting all the best alliances just for the fun of having wars. (Eg. massive campaign)

      Goons are the bad boys of the carebears. They team up with carebear alliances like sma and lie. They will occassionally go into high sec and do some suicide ganks against carebears – but even that is carebearish because they only gank if its isk-efficient.

      Goons always hope for non wars and try to make war as boring as possible for everyone involved. Since they team up with carebears they know their own coalition will put up with boring gameplay longer than the pvp alliances. Mittani’s life is wrapped up in eve. He does not care if anyone is having fun – including his own coalition.
      This is why many people don’t care for null sec.

      This is also one reason everyone in null sec wants them out. Mittani in power = boring null sec. Say what you want about bob (and there was allot of stupid in bob) but null sec was more exciting when they had the reigns.

      July 18, 2013 at 4:40 pm Reply
  20. Javafanatic

    You do get the fact that CFC is not going home. ISK donations are awesome, we’re happy to empty the wallets of the Test Carebears now that we have blown through the wallets of the Alliances. Please oh please, not that. Keep your fundraisers so we can keep the troops happy with plenty of kill mails.

    July 18, 2013 at 12:59 pm Reply
    1. really?

      Obvious Goon DC koolaid drinker. Thanks for nothing in the way of an informative comment. Do you guys just get a list of things to say and then cut and paste as needed?

      July 18, 2013 at 1:57 pm Reply
      1. Tim

        OK, so this guy is a goon koolaid drinker right? So TEST haven’t been welping fleets left right and center? CFC haven’t had huge numbers on the field and been downing capitals? Is that what you are saying?

        You TEST lot like to run around screaming “HAR! Goons are drinking the koolaid blah blah blah” but the fact remains that TEST are suffering enormous losses, they’ve had to resort to pulling in isk from alliance members and external donations, and every member of the CFC is excited by this. We don’t need to be “drinking the koolaid” to see what is plain for everyone to see.

        July 18, 2013 at 3:05 pm Reply
        1. really?

          I’m not in TEST. So your entire comment falls on deaf ears since it isn’t aimed at me.

          July 18, 2013 at 3:47 pm Reply
          1. Tim

            So by that you mean “you are correct Tim, however as I have no counter argument I’m going to need to distance myself”.

            Thanks for clarifying.

            July 19, 2013 at 4:03 pm
  21. Craig Wallace

    In response to your quote: ““More money for the Mittani”, while an honest battle cry, is not one that’s going to keep the CFC pilots enthusiastic about fleeting up for grinding sov fights.”

    CFC line members are informed that the participation they display will reflect the alliance’s spoils once the war ends. I’ve been in enough CFC wars to know that alliance spoils are divided equitably based on participation. New moons are divvied up based on performance. I participate to help my alliance grow, and to help secure a shiny future for my coalition. People who use “lol mittenz RMT” as a propaganda jab fundamentally misunderstand what CFC members know to be the truth: our spoils enrich the coalition and its members.

    July 18, 2013 at 2:55 pm Reply
    1. Mord Fiddle

      I make no reference to RMT in the article. Nor is “More money for the Mittani” intended as an RMT reference.

      As you’ve read an RMT connotation into my comment, are you suggesting there’s an RMT motive involved I’m unaware of?

      Interesting.

      July 18, 2013 at 3:03 pm Reply
      1. Craig Wallace

        Then shouldn’t you say “More ISK for the Mittani” instead of “More money for the Mittani”?

        July 18, 2013 at 3:07 pm Reply
        1. Mord Fiddle

          No, Craig, I shouldn’t have.

          ISK is a form of money.

          ‘More Money for the Mittani’ is a much better battle cry than ‘More ISK for the Mittani’ or ‘More In-Game Currency for the Mittani’. The three M words in succession make the sentence pop. It’s a writing thing.

          I appreciate your search for subtext, but your reading RMT into that sentence suggests RMT as a motive is a given for you.

          Shame on you, Craig! Shaaaaaaaame! 😉

          July 18, 2013 at 3:19 pm Reply
          1. Craig Wallace

            Anyway, the point of my original post is that line members have plenty of motivation. They are motivated by strengthening their coalition, strengthening their alliance, and fighting good fights.

            July 18, 2013 at 3:24 pm
          2. Craig Wallace

            Also, the shame belongs to you, for sacrificing clarity for “sentence pop”. 😉

            July 18, 2013 at 3:26 pm
          3. Viper Rum

            Two readers comment indicating the potential confusion your sentence engenders and you blame them. Classic Mord Fiddle behavior.

            July 19, 2013 at 11:27 pm
          4. Mord Fiddle

            Glad to hear your a regular reader 😉

            July 20, 2013 at 2:17 pm
      2. Tim

        I think he’s pointing out that the context in which you said it and the fact that you called it “money” not ISK, combined with the fact that EN24 is renowned for claiming Mittani does everything for RMT gives the wrong impression and he was correcting you. Mittani doesn’t get hold of all the iskies, pile them in a room and sit on them singing. ISK gained by the coalition goes to making the coalition stronger all over.

        July 18, 2013 at 3:09 pm Reply
  22. Nullibro

    Lets speculate on what would happen if a worst case scenario for Test/N3 happens. Lets say, CFC does win Fountain and even Delve. What would happen??? N3 would go back in the East and bring Test with them (Test would become a member of N3). SOLAR would be kicked out of Dronelands for good and loose all hopes of retaking any system in that region. From that point how would the geopolitical situation evolved?? CFC would still be surrounded by people hostile to them (its not just Nulli that want to see GSF dead by the way!!) but this time, they would no longer have a moon monopoly. Tech moons have been nerfed and R64s are now scattered across the map. CCP`s recent changes to high end moons have made it much more difficult for a coalition to keep a financial advantage over the rest of Eve.

    Lets make it clear, the two worst fears for CFC atm is to see this war drag on for months AND to see Test become permanently blue to N3. Even if Test looses its current space, they WILL have a chance to re-do their wallet and that is very bad for the CFC.

    CFC win or loose this campaign, tomorrow or in two months, it really does not look easy for the CFC on the long term.

    July 18, 2013 at 4:10 pm Reply
    1. Tim

      L O L

      So much BS! First I love how you assume that there would be much of TEST left to take with you. Secondly you assume SOLAR who are already making some headway would simply roll over and die.

      TEST are already dead, we’re just waiting for the leadership to realise it.

      July 19, 2013 at 3:59 pm Reply
  23. Little Bee

    Yup the spoils of war while be divided after the war is over.
    Alliance with the best participation in the war gets the most moons and riches.
    Alliance with the lowest participation gets less.
    Each and every member is tracked in wich alliance and which fleet.

    Isnt the CFC awesome ?

    This is why it is so damn hard to break the CFC apart.

    If all that ISK was RMT there would be no CFC left lol.
    But whatever makes you sleep at night i gues.

    July 18, 2013 at 8:16 pm Reply
    1. Goonie

      Not to mention that Mittani won like 100 plex for the true stories stuff and it all went to the alliance. Hardly the RMT behavior.

      July 19, 2013 at 3:49 pm Reply
  24. Lord Maghnus

    I’m curious and your obvious contradictions in your article. You give two reasons for CFC to be fighting this war and express them as singular reasons and even worse they demonstrate a contradiction in your discussion.

    “Likewise, CFC leadership does not merely want Fountain. They want Test Alliance well and truly obliterated as a rallying point for anti-Goon resistance.”
    ““More money for the Mittani”, while an honest battle cry, is not one that’s going to keep the CFC pilots enthusiastic about fleeting up for grinding sov fights.”

    And since you already implied that this is a fight to one sides utter destruction it must be true that CFC pilots are in fact fighting for more.

    The inconsistencies in this article is just part of the problems with it. I’m not sure if it was from desperation to spin the story just the right way (away from Krith’s) or you were writing this as you were wandering through some random thoughts about the war but from beginning to end it’s obvious that you wanted to write it from a perspective of both sides despite not really having it.

    Maybe you should say it’s more of a think piece and not push to much of it as fact since it lacks quantifiable data, information from reliable resources, or even a reconstruction of the events so far into the war. You did almost do this in follow up posts by stating “The article merely states what the author thinks is the state of affairs.” but then ruined that with “Oh, none of what I write is mere opinion. It is 100% steel-jacketed, unvarnished truth.” unfortunately what you think is your opinion.

    I’m ok with your slant but please do better since it only appears that you are desperate for all of this to be true.

    July 19, 2013 at 8:39 am Reply
    1. Viper Rum

      It isn’t just “More Money for the Mittani” either. The spoils of war are split up based on participation and effort during the war. And those spoils are used by the various alliances for ship replacement and other stuff that is provided to players. So the rallying cry is “more money for my alliance”.

      Is that a good enough reason? Well, the CFC is making progress. Slow progress, but progress none-the-less. And despite the nonsense of “you aren’t winning fast enough and therefore are losing,” it is bad news for TEST.

      And while TEST’s player donation drive might indicate enthusiasm and that there is still a belief that they can win the war, it is also a sign that they are in trouble. If players are donating to the SRP they are basically buying their ships outright or buying for other players. Which is what we’ve seen Gevlon make a case for explicitly. That players who can’t afford to get into the “right ships” should instead be ratting or doing PI or exploration or anything other than fleeting up. In any event it is not a sustainable process unless TEST starts telling some of its pilots that their job is to grind for isk for other players. Welcome to Eve, your second job paying for some other guys’ PVP ships. Yeah…going to work out well.

      July 19, 2013 at 11:23 pm Reply
      1. Lord Maghnus

        I appreciate your comments, but what I really want is the author to be more diligent in his writing to ensure its at least well written

        July 20, 2013 at 7:14 am Reply
        1. Mord Fiddle

          Given that you found “obvious contradictions” where there were none, I recommend you read my works more with more care before putting on your CFC forum warrior pants.

          July 20, 2013 at 2:15 pm Reply
      2. Mord Fiddle

        CFC pilots are generally pretty comfortable from an ISK standpoint. More is always nice, but the CFC rank and file isn’t terribly hungry. A war for more when you have enough is not a terribly good motivator. Despite all the ‘sharing’, the spoils of this war won’t enrich the average CFC pilot to any significant extend.

        July 20, 2013 at 2:29 pm Reply
    2. Mord Fiddle

      As I point out below, I don’t believe the rank and file of the CFC have a particular grudge against Test. The CFC’s leadership – which the first paragraph you quote speaks to – are, on the other hand, quite passionate about eliminating any potential threats to CFC hegemony. They will not allow Test to persist as in independent entity. CFC leadership can only tolerate Test as a much diminished alliance, one thoroughly emasculated and firmly under CFC control, or extinct.

      While CFC leadership doesn’t regard Test as a potent stand-alone threat, Test’s sheer size (~12K members, which eclipses even Goonswarm’s ~9K membership) makes them a weapon CFC does not want to see used against them by other enemies.

      CFC’s rank and file, on the other hand, are not dedicated to Test’s destruction as an independent alliance. They are enjoying the fight at present. Winning is, after all, always fun. They’re in it for the lulz and alliance pride, not for the ISK or for CFC leaderships dream of economic hegemony. They are comfortable with the status quo and don’t particularly need Fountain. Thus, if the war stops being fun – if the offensive bogs down, or unforeseen events turn the war’s tide, their enthusiasm for the fight may quickly wane.

      July 20, 2013 at 2:08 pm Reply
  25. Kent

    More money for Dear Leader Mitts! Kirith WAS being conservative with his statements after all. They are beyond screwed. Kirith must be destroyed because either he can see the future or control it…the risk is too great to wait and find out.

    July 23, 2013 at 10:40 pm Reply

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