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Ali Aras had a very interesting take on intel and (AFK-)cloaking, but stopped a step before the really important conclusion. Let me summarize her post: in WHs you can control your entrances, in nullsec you can’t, since every ship can light a cyno pouring hundreds of enemies. To make it worse, they can do so next to you, while they are tackling you (hotdrop). Therefore if we remove local, no one will undock as he will rightfully assume that he does it into a massacre. She finished by adding that she still considers AFK cloaking a valid mechanic.

I don’t argue with her. I just finish what’s missing, because she also mentions how she is unhappy that nullsec is almost empty. However, because of what she wrote, nullsec will always be almost empty, even if the EVE playerbase and even nullsec alliance membership doubles. There would be twice as big Asakais, but in the meantime, nullsec will be just as void as today. Why?

Because local channel is actually an emptiness checker. If a player finds the system not empty, he docks/safes up, therefore removing himself, making it emptier. If we remove the tool, they will just leave nullsec forever. Currently a nullsec system has two states of emptiness outside of a timer battle, either there are a few ratters/miners are in the system, only blues, or one or more hostiles (neutrals) enter the system and everyone docks up, leaving only the hostiles to linger. Some are lingering for long due to being AFK-cloaker.

To make nullsec not empty, we must change the mechanics that makes “ratting while neut is on local” equal to “being a suicidal idiot”. In WH it’s not the same, people run sites, despite rightfully assuming that there can be hostiles on the system. However they have a chance to win. Unless the hostiles sneaked in a large force and logged it off, waiting especially for you, their gang is facing a few roamers that can be easily disposed. In WHs, you can’t just jump around looking for someone to kill, because you can only enter in a wormhole which is camped by a local scout if they aren’t totally incompetent. Your scout who is already in the system can find the siterunners, but by the time you roll your static to them, they’ll be gone, and even if you are very lucky, the scout has to be tanky enough to keep someone tackled long enough for your fleet to jump the hole and warp from it to the site. A 1-day old rifter with a T1 cloak won’t make it. In nullsec, you just gather on a titan, send out scouts and as soon as any of them finds anyone outside of shields/stations, your fleet can instantly appear on top of him.

What about lowsec? You can cyno in too, and low isn’t that empty. At first, most lowsec PvE is done behind acceleration gates where you can’t cyno in. You need at least 2 pilots to “hotdrop” a missioner, one who lights the cyno on the gate and another inside the mission tackling. The missioner is also pre-warned by the incoming scan probes. Also, most lowsec entities don’t have titans.

The force projection of the cynos needs to be seriously decreased to decrease the emptiness of null. I’m not sure if titan and blackops bridges add anything to the game instead of taking away. If you could only drop unsupported capitals or a fleet of blackops battleship alone to a cyno, it wouldn’t be so undefeatable. There could also be a spool-up period for cyno: after you press the button the cyno starts to form for 2 minutes. The beacon that others can warp to does not appear until the cyno is complete, but it is visible for anyone on grid. So you need to be off-grid to light the cyno, giving a chance to the targets to get away. Obviously you can’t tackle and cyno with the same ship, unless it can live 2 minutes under fire and somehow prevent its target to just slowboat out of tackle range in 2 minutes. A commenter made an even better idea: to make the bridge, the titan must jump first, leaving behind a bridgehead. People can use that item to jump after the Titan, as long as it is next to the cyno.

There can be other fixes, but the point is this: as long as force projection is so powerful, everyone will remove himself from the system when he sees a neutral coming, making the system forever almost empty.

PS: tomorrow (if the administrative work won’t be even longer) you’ll be very surprised, don’t miss the post.

– Gevlon Goblin

His EVE journey show a very interesting “outside the box” approach to the game, PVE and the trade hubs, reason for which we invite you to pay a visit to his blog.

135 Comments

  1. Daniel Plain

    surprisingly enough, this article was not completely retarded. a cyno spool up time sounds pretty silly at first glance, but in essence this would be the kind of fix you need to encourage people to actually go out and do something in 0.0.

    July 12, 2013 at 1:32 pm Reply
    1. GrouchyOldGamer

      Encouraging them to do things other than hot dropping and reinforcement fleets?

      July 12, 2013 at 2:05 pm Reply
      1. Daniel Plain

        if you will

        July 12, 2013 at 2:21 pm Reply
  2. A Merc

    “The force projection of the cynos needs to be seriously decreased to decrease the emptiness of null.”

    Blops gangs will switch back to AFK cloakers in T3s if Cynos are not viable.

    “I’m not sure if titan and blackops bridges add anything to the game instead of taking away.”

    For blops is allows a small forces to perform gorilla warfare tactics against a much, much larger entity.
    – Strike and fade.
    – Targets of opportunity
    – 3 way, 4 way fights.

    “If you could only drop unsupported capitals or a fleet of blackops battleship alone to a cyno, it wouldn’t be so undefeatable.”

    Blops is not undefeatable, on our current contract we’ve performed 100+ drops in the last week not one has been opposed by the locals. Typically they are docked up except for the target(s). If we could only drop black ops battleships then you’ll just get 5x Redeemers landing on your head instead of 10x hounds, (but +5 cloakies in local)

    “There could also be a spool-up period for cyno: after you press the button the cyno starts to form for 2 minutes. The beacon that others can warp to does not appear until the cyno is complete, but it is visible for anyone on grid. So you need to be off-grid to light the cyno, giving a chance to the targets to get away. Obviously you can’t tackle and cyno with the same ship, unless it can live 2 minutes under fire and somehow prevent its target to just slowboat out of tackle range in 2 minutes.”

    Terribly thought out mechanic, (your low sec jump freighter pilots would just luv that.) but it could lead to either of these things.

    a) H/Ks working in staggered pairs, t3 tackle out of corp alt + in corp main for the cyno. Tricky to get the timing right but not impossible.
    b) Blops gangs will switch to AFK cloakers in T3s. So rather than 2 H/Ks and 12 bombers you’ll get 14 afk cloakers waiting for the target to undock.

    “A commenter made an even better idea: to make the bridge, the titan must jump first, leaving behind a bridgehead.”

    Probably not an issue with the Blops gang if the battleship follows through, typically its required for extraction. It does add some acceptable risk to the bridging pilot, (approx 6 seconds on grid until he can MJD forward.)

    Now in return for the cyno nerf what are you prepared to offer up on the Null Sec ratting front?
    – Delayed local i.e. you only show up after you decloak?
    – Multiple scram rats in anomalies?

    July 12, 2013 at 2:26 pm Reply
    1. Michael Douglas

      “Gorilla warfare”

      lol

      July 14, 2013 at 4:37 am Reply
  3. IndepdendentMind

    The next proposal of this idiot will be CONCORD ships in nullsec space shooting everyone who is not on the blue list of the locals.

    July 12, 2013 at 3:32 pm Reply
  4. the lying dutchman

    Goblin.. please stop writing articles about parts of the game you know nothing about. Thank you.

    July 12, 2013 at 4:25 pm Reply
  5. lol goblin

    So what does your girlfriend have to say about all this?

    July 12, 2013 at 9:05 pm Reply
  6. Maloxkov Malukkar

    There must be a device to uncloak ships on space. like a energy pulse around that system that could decalibrate electronic systems for seconds. so. cloaked ships will decloak, but with the chance to cloak again of course. this could help against AFK Cloakys.

    July 13, 2013 at 12:52 am Reply
    1. Maloxkov Malukkar

      dont flame me , is just an idea.

      July 13, 2013 at 12:53 am Reply
    2. A Merc

      This comes up every week on the Eve forums. Afk cloaking is the side effect of instant intel in local, its very hard to get the drop on anyone who has local open. The ratter can warp to station before the tackler has landed on grid. Its only those that don’t pay attention that get caught.

      How can sworn enemies interfere with each others wealth generation? Or do you expect to rat in complete safety?

      Also quite often some hunters accuse their prey of being botters, (they are on the ball and can’t be caught.) likewise not all afk cloakies are actually afk. i.e. running 2-3 accounts at the same time.

      July 13, 2013 at 1:08 am Reply
  7. FDG Alexander

    There’s already a mechanic that prevents the hot drop – cyno jammers. The problem is they’re prohibitively expensive and interfere with alliance logistics. Want to nerf Titan projection? Buff cyno jammers.

    July 13, 2013 at 3:53 am Reply
  8. Delton Frederic

    Gevlon, not Glevon. Since you’re space rich and I found this error can you ISK me? Pls and thanks.

    July 13, 2013 at 4:54 am Reply
  9. Pregnant Wombat

    Look everyone, I’m one of those stupid noobs from Providence you guys always like to talk shit about. That’s me. I’m here to tell you while you guys have this problem all over the rest of nullsec, thats not an issue here in Providence. I think you guys all know about how we a station in nearly every system, and nearly every system has guys in it. You love to come here pvp or even AFK cloak. Yeah somestime you bag a few guys, but the majority just jumpbridge out and head to a different system and continue making their isk. You complain so much about how bad it is, and yet, somehow, here in Providence, nullsec isn’t dead.
    So before you talk about how its because of AFK cloakers, or because of Stupid Carebears, or that its too expensive for alliances… think about it. Why is it that we can do it here, and somehow you guys can’t?
    I can give you guys a few ideas on how it can be that way.
    -In Providence, its the crappiest region in the game, we have barely any valuable moons at all, to some alliances none of them are even worth it.
    1. Nice moons generate a ton of ISK
    2. No one needs to farm a system where theres a nice moon in it to help pay sov bills.
    3. Why bother being in local when you aren’t currently pvping when you make enough passive isk as it is.
    – Here in Providence we have nearly a station in every system.
    1. Why don’t you guys have a station in nearly every system?
    2. We know you can afford it… what are the reasons why you want to put your isk elsewhere and not help your ratters/ miners out?
    3. Is it because you really don’t need them?
    4. You don’t need them, you have nice moons, so screw them.

    Let’s be honest here… passive income is what makes it so no one undocks when they aren’t in some huge fleet having fun pvping as a group. Any reason you give, try to think to yourself that it also applies in Providence, if it doesn’t… its because of passive income. End of Story.

    July 13, 2013 at 10:07 pm Reply
    1. Pregnant Wombat

      By the way, talking smack back to me with no legitimate reasons why I’m wrong and giving stupid thumbs downs isn’t going to prove me wrong.

      I’m certain theres a few other reasons why but they aren’t as big.

      If you want to constructively add on or criticize my comment, feel free to do so… All I’m trying to show is that somehow Providence seems to be lively while you guys are dead. Theres something we don’t have in common with the rest of nullsec. That’s the solution.

      July 13, 2013 at 10:14 pm Reply
    2. Whine much?

      Show us on the doll where the moongoo farmer touched you.

      July 13, 2013 at 10:14 pm Reply
      1. Pregnant Wombat

        Ouch, someones pissed. I’m fine where I am, I have fun… How about you? Why are you so mad at people who don’t care about moons?

        July 13, 2013 at 10:15 pm Reply
  10. abc123

    All I read here is selfish crybabies who don’t know how to live with others in Low Sec and Zero Zero. Please go back to WOW.

    Blue Balling / Black Ops Drops / Cyno Drops / Nuets being possible Asshats its all part of the price of living in Zero Zero. Deal with it or just go back to Hi Sec with the other multi year losers.
    Every time IDIOTS like this —–>>>> Glevon Goblin & Ali Aras cry in EVE 24 news and QQ in the forums, CCP starts to bring out the Nerf Bat. Learn to adept losers.
    Few other have and really do live in ZERO ZERO instead of EVE24 New or CCP Forums

    July 14, 2013 at 3:27 am Reply

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