CCP Rise has posted details about the latest thinking on industrial ship changes. I decided I’d have a closer look at what CCP is proposing as an industrial “balance.” What a mess. You can read them for yourself here.

Though I think it is intriguing they’ve split the Iteron into cargo specific roles, I don’t see the point. I can already haul all of that stuff in a ship that is actually versatile. Under the new proposal, if I want to get max PI hauling capacity for instance, I have to buy another ship. I don’t see the sense in that. Let me highlight something I said in my last post concerning these changes.

“We just want to know two things: how much will it haul and can it reach it’s destination intact.”

That’s it. Why should I be burdened with having to think about what it can haul? Why should that even matter? I haul stuff – period. Give me a ship that I can fit to either be fast and agile, or big as hell. In fact, you only need one ship for this. I’ll elaborate in a moment.

I think CCP has confused an outcry over aesthetics with a dissatisfaction with the original plan. They are two very different issues. We like the look of the Mammoth. Given a choice between it and another ship, keep that hull. That does not mean keep the Mammoth specs they way they are. That also doesn’t mean we want every single hull kept.

The only reason I have any Iteron other than an Iteron V is because training into the Iteron V didn’t happen instantaneously; I still had to haul cargo while I trained up. I still have an Iteron III sitting in my original system of Cistuvaert I haven’t flown in over four (4!) years. Dropping the skill requirement as proposed means I’d have gone straight to an Itty V. The only other hauler I have is a Viator in the hole. I used to have a Occator, but it’s too expensive for life in Anoikis when an Itty V does the job. I gave it to Kao Jai when I handed him MABMM. He also got my Orca. I just don’t need them now.

What I do need is a versatile and inexpensive ship. I have a ship with 2 highs, 5 mids and 5 lows. I already have the ability to make that ship either fast or big. That’s why I fly an Itty V, not because it looks like a baguette. It’s because I can throw 5 Expanded Cargohold II’s into it along with Medium Cargohold Optimizers and increase my cargo capacity to damn near 42,000 cubic meters.

Or, if I am concerned about gate camps, I can do this. I now have a ship that only hauls 20,000 cubic meters, but cloaks and insta-warps. BTW, if these changes go through this may not be possible with any of the “rebalanced” ships. I’ve not run any numbers, but it doesn’t look like there is enough grid on any of the proposed ships to support this sort of fit. Those that might have enough augmented grid don’t appear to have a max velocity in the sweet zone. But that’s just taking a quick glance at the proposed specs. Still, if that capability gets nerfed out of existence… well… I’ll let Marvin tell it.

Back to topic now, if I just want it to be fast, all I have to do is fill the lows with Nanofiber Internal Structure IIs and the rig slots with Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizers. I then get a hauler that aligns in 7 seconds and goes nearly 9 au/s. It hauls only 7500 cubic meters of cargo, but there is always a trade off. That tradeoff should be up to me and how I fit my ship.

We don’t need a dozen different T1 haulers. That’s always been ridiculous. Why not dump all the racial variants and give us one (1!) T1 ORE ship to replace them all? Make that one ship as versatile as the Itty V is now. There is no need to get all wrapped around the axle on what ship will have what role, etc, etc. As I said before, it just has to haul stuff and get there – that’s it. Let the pilot decide how to fit it based on the needs of her route. Seriously, hauling stuff isn’t like PvP. There are not a lot of different scenarios calling for different ships with various capabilities, and ego/vanity is almost never a consideration. Keep it simple is the best policy here. Let the industrialist decide what role her hauler will have.

Fly Carefully

– Mabrick

He’s been around the block a time or five. With over 15 years of MMO playing under his belt and a memory that reaches back to pencils and dice, he offers his insights into the not so virtual reality we call Eve Online.


  1. a2a3a


    July 1, 2013 at 1:16 am Reply
  2. Anhenka

    What a ridiculously long post to say “NO!, MINE!” Suck it up and let other people play with their toys too. You sound like the mining battleship people did when barges come out. Just because a ship is generally capable of a task does not mean specialized ships for specific tasks are not an improvement.

    July 1, 2013 at 1:27 am Reply
  3. anon

    You don’t understand how the insta warp mechanic works. The max velocity on the hull is almost irrelevant. You warp at 75% max speed, cloak reduces max speed by a percent, MWD increases it by a %. Acceleration is what matters.

    July 1, 2013 at 1:28 am Reply
  4. Clarity

    You seem to think that only haulers fly indys?

    The new Itties will be a boon for my PI and manufacturing ventures, the changes are much better than the first pass, stop whining.

    If you want one ship that can be fitted to do anything, get the latest max hauler hull and pretend the others don’t exist.

    What was the point of this article?

    July 1, 2013 at 1:30 am Reply
  5. MaraRinn

    Why not dump all the races and just have one frigate, one cruiser, one battleship, all of which use one weapon type and omni-tank?

    Who needs variety or flavour differences?

    I would like the option of special-purpose haulers with item-specific bays that are tankier than a max-expanded Iteron or Bestower, yet carry more than such a loot piñata. The best troll from CCP Rise is the T1 industrial with the 50k m3 mineral bay. That is the kind of ship that I like: give capsuleers enough rope to hang themselves with. In the meantime someone who knows what they are doing might use such a ship for hauling minerals between sellers and buyers while saving and training up for an Orca.

    July 1, 2013 at 1:55 am Reply
    1. Fartolio

      Because this will hurt CCP’s plex sales….?

      July 1, 2013 at 3:19 am Reply
      1. ...

        sar·casm noun ˈsär-ˌka-zəm

        Definition of SARCASM
        : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
        2a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual

        July 1, 2013 at 3:36 am Reply
  6. Besbin

    “I’ve not run any numbers, but it doesn’t look like…” Jesus Christ, why is this guy allowed to write anything?

    Also, ever heard of new players Mr Mememememe McKnowitall?

    Stop writing articles please. You’re terrible.

    July 1, 2013 at 2:08 am Reply
    1. Jesus Christ

      You called? I have no clue. If he doesn’t write. he explodes.

      July 1, 2013 at 7:45 am Reply
  7. 2.4

    So, let me get this straight…

    You don’t like the changes because you want a “I do everything in one hull” ship?

    You don’t like specialization what-so-ever?

    Are you a fucking retard?

    July 1, 2013 at 2:43 am Reply
    1. u must be trollin'


      July 1, 2013 at 6:15 am Reply
  8. testaliancebestalianceeeesatan

    Go and kill youreslf you goon prick.

    July 1, 2013 at 3:03 am Reply
    1. dafuq

      Surely not a goon.

      July 1, 2013 at 1:52 pm Reply
  9. helpful for low sp toons

    “if I want to get max PI hauling capacity for instance, I have to buy another ship. I don’t see the sense.”

    very easy … i live in null, doing indu stuff. i have a few toons specialized in pi … more capacity for a very short training time indeed is easing up my doing.

    diversity is fun – one doesn’t have to use it.

    July 1, 2013 at 3:47 am Reply
  10. Tufy

    Mabrick, feel free to fly Iteron mk. V then. There you go, diversity, you just won’t be as good at it as flying a dedicated ship. Beyond that, the article is one huge pile of mess, to which the only serious answer can be: htfu.

    July 1, 2013 at 6:29 am Reply
  11. Because...

    Well, lets take structure bashing as an example. Unless you are FIRIN YA LAZORS, you can go through a lot of ammo, especially in smaller corps (Because some people love bashing in SBs). Instead of taking a general hauler that may be weighed down by pure cargo rigs, why not just grab a purpose built ship that gets similar results for minimal cost?
    This article seems to be made mostly on the premise that if you are hauling, you haul everything. This is simply not true. Variety is the spice of life.
    On a lesser note, it does not make sense from a fluff point of view for all the races to drop their industrial ships (freighters?), especially when two of them like to think of themselves as THE leady industrial and trading power of the Galaxy. ORE has mining barges because that’s their primary income, mining. Makes sense. Usurping the empires in trade? Not so much.
    The only plus would be all the free skill points I’d get back.

    July 1, 2013 at 6:39 am Reply
  12. None

    The thing about the specialized ships, as with past specialized ships, you cannot expand the capacity with cargo expanders. So if you have an ammo bay, you have to fit the ship differently to haul that commodity. The “carry all” ships are where your trade-offs occur, but they have the potential for more capacity since you can expand it.

    I think you are looking at this too narrowly. Sure you can use 1 ship to haul everything. The point with lesser grid is to not have an insanely tanked battle badger with an ammo bay. I’m guessing they still want them to insta-pop…

    July 1, 2013 at 7:11 am Reply
    1. None

      Also, I was under the notion that certain races got more agility, while others got more carrying capacity or tank… This is why there are racial variations.

      July 1, 2013 at 7:13 am Reply
  13. Calixtus

    “Under the new proposal, if I want to get max PI hauling capacity for instance, I have to buy another ship.”

    “What I do need is a versatile and inexpensive ship.”

    If you don’t need a specialized hauler with max capacity, don’t buy one. This is, literally, how every other aspect of the game works. Need a drone boat? Don’t need a drone boat? Skill and purchase ships accordingly. Think its annoying to manage drones? Fly something else.

    “That’s it. Why should I be burdened with having to think about what it can haul? Why should that even matter?”

    Why *shouldn’t* you? This is EVE, not Facebook tetris.

    July 1, 2013 at 8:03 am Reply
  14. fake

    t3 haulers with subsystems just like a tengu, loki, proteus and legion

    this way u can decide what is the most important to u

    July 1, 2013 at 9:04 am Reply
  15. Noctune Prime

    Are you serious are you refitting a T1 hauler for moving stuff?

    you get two one for each of your purpoes

    a T1 hauler is inexpensive

    a T1 hauler is throw away newbee ship

    anyone with some time under its belt is using

    Freighter for big size cargo 900 000 m3

    Orca for faster hauls (well tanked 230k – 260k ehp) with a MWD can hold 70-80 000m3 without cargo expanders with cargo expanders your near 100 000m3
    but then your tank / survivability drops.

    T2 Blockade runner – unscannable fast cloaking freight train. for small valuable items.

    T2 DST — does anyone use them?

    T1 Haulers for Pi in nullsec since they are cheap, entry hauling, courier missions

    I acctualy think the changes are for the better.
    the specialized bays gives a bonus to specific tasks like hauling ore witch from a new players perspective with a lousy hauler is slow as hell for why is a Retriver better at hauling ore then a specialized ship? makes no sense.

    July 1, 2013 at 9:23 am Reply
  16. Daniel Plain

    and another terrible post on EN24. who would’ve thunk….

    July 1, 2013 at 12:52 pm Reply
  17. Mail Drone Ted

    Seriously CCP are you just looking for things to ‘fix’ hoping we forget about the things we actually want fixed….. Sov? Isnt there already a PI hauling ship?

    July 1, 2013 at 2:07 pm Reply
    1. Playos

      Primae is a joke of a ship… 1000 m3 PI hangar

      July 1, 2013 at 5:25 pm Reply
    2. Lillith Maurer

      Yes, CCP, like any other company in any other industry, has EVERYONE working on the same project at the same time.

      Because that’s how it works, right?! I mean, CCP Rise said, “…we’re currently doing this…” So he must have been talking for every CCP Dev. Yes. That’s how it works. He couldn’t have possibly spoken of a small group of Developers that focuses on ship-balancing, whilst other groups focus on other issues, such as Sov mechanics or POS codes.

      No, I’m afraid that would be ridiculous.

      July 2, 2013 at 12:10 am Reply
      1. Mail Drone Ted

        because sarcasm is the greatest form of witt

        July 9, 2013 at 5:32 am Reply
  18. Dirk MacGirk

    Yep yep yep yep yep. All this shit over T1 industrials is a big waste of time and is only an issue because CCP dumbed down the training for Indus and now feels the need to differentiate them. They don’t need special holds. Gallente doesn’t need 5. These are T1 Indy haulers. Keep it simple.

    July 1, 2013 at 2:49 pm Reply
  19. Dirk MacGirk

    Oh yeah, and fuck you Mabrick for using the feminine descriptor of industrialist as some sort of protest of the masculine dominated lexicon used in a game dominated to the extreme by dudes. Your stupid title didn’t need to use gender focused wording at all but apparently you feel the need to make a statement. So for that: Fuck You.

    July 1, 2013 at 3:10 pm Reply
  20. who cares?

    CCP just can’t win. They make all the ships the same and people whine and bitch. They give us some variety and people whine and bitch. At the end of the day who cares? They are haulers, the most boring ship in the game. This is eve, if you can’t adjust and adapt go play WoW. Let Rise put this shit to bed and move onto T2 ships. Stop kicking a dead horse

    July 1, 2013 at 3:23 pm Reply
  21. Alison King

    I think its stupid now the hauler situation , I spent nigh on a month to train for Iteron 5 and now anyone can fly them with lv 1 ! there is no role for iteron 4321 now – training the skills up used to reward the player each level they achieved a new ship to fly. I feel that giving them different attributes wont mater , because at the end of the day there used for hauling and we all no the iteron 5 is the best for that

    July 1, 2013 at 3:32 pm Reply
  22. hun dude

    “I trained gallente industrial level 5 and now my butt hurts, because others will be able to haul more with specialized ships and less skills!”

    July 1, 2013 at 3:48 pm Reply
    1. Geede

      You seem to have somewhat awful reading skill. Gallente are pretty much the only hauler that can haul more, which is the skill he has to 5. Well he does seem to be complaining about something, and that something is very stupid, it isn’t because “other will me able to haul more with specialized ships”

      July 1, 2013 at 4:14 pm Reply
      1. hun dude

        I read it between the lines. This is a huge buff for the t1 industrial ships in general, so I see that “something” you are talking about is pure butthurtism. This whole thing is bad only for someone who trained for iteron mk5 and did everthing with it because it was the best all around t1 hauler and now it isn’t anymore.

        July 1, 2013 at 5:09 pm Reply
  23. what

    Mabrick your ideas regarding the hauler changes is just shit. Why should combat ship roles be specific but not industrial? How about if we just remove all pvp ships and just make one for each race? Your thoughts on this is absolutely retarded.

    July 1, 2013 at 4:05 pm Reply
  24. qwer

    FFS. This dude is really much worse than Goblin.

    First of all, he doesn’t even bother to check his facts.
    All the new ‘+5% agility’ industrials can do the cloak iteron trick and some of them will have more cargo than iteron had. To make himself sound even more ridiculous, he speaks about speed when MWD + Cloak -> insta warp trick has NOTHING to do with max speed of ship. Only thing that affects it, is align time and in that the new agility industrials shine like a fucking star compared to iteron V.

    Why hauling should be treated differently than any other part of the game? One of the most important aspects in EVE is that people should be allowed to fly unoptimal ships if they are lazy or stupid. That’s where the fun starts for others.

    July 1, 2013 at 4:40 pm Reply
  25. risingdeath

    best is why dont we have T3isch haulers with ore,mineral,PI and so on modules so you can put it togehter asl you wish – and this for all 4 races – like gallente ones with drones etc. pp

    July 1, 2013 at 4:44 pm Reply
  26. danlee

    I agree completely, remove all racial variants of the hauler, except one for each race, that way it still gives a lead into the T2 versions. Make them somewhere in between the two different T2 versions.

    July 1, 2013 at 5:09 pm Reply
  27. Hem

    Not a very good news article in my oppinion. I much rather hear fact than just another oppinion. This site seems to already be crawled with oppinions. If I wanted to read oppinions i’d go read the forums or a blog. Would be nice if you tried to stay as neutral as possible, not to mention if you start being the negative Nancy, atleast make get a good foundation first and be less of a ‘I have everything” sounding person.

    July 2, 2013 at 10:42 am Reply

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