Having been afk for more or less 3 or so weeks has made my experience catching up on the 0.0 politics and wars akin to chugging a pint of bullshit espresso. It may be difficult to discern the different angles of propaganda. Both sides seem to be claiming their victories and claiming “turning the corner” or “approaching a win just over the hill” scenarios. Both sides have massive gashes in their propaganda boats but as always you don’t admit to weaknesses…at least not without claiming to have fixed the problem.

War updates are my particular favorite pieces to read, not because they offer any insight on the truth, at least not directly, but you can often tell the truth with lies (Tim O’Brien style). Refer to Mittani’s hurfzone piece.In the first paragraph he portrays the conflict as a tough and hard but also fun and rewarding experience that is sov war. I know we all were told that sov warfare is not fun, but now it is somehow and that’s the world we live in today.

He does a smart thing by addressing the CFC’s shortcomings. The losses of the titans, the initial doctrinal incompetence. By this method he disarms the enemy from using that criticism as effectively. You’d be surprised how much you gain in life by simply admitting screw ups and it’s not different in Eve. Of course for Mittens this is done only to tell others how he’s been hard at work fixing the problem and that the problem is now fixed. This is also covering his ass from the criticisms of being an absent leader at the start of the war. Make no mistake there is no other major coalition leader in Eve that cares more about this game than Mittani.

Blah blah blah obligatory “we’re terrible at this game” defusing failures as “working as intended” skip skip skip…. ah here we go, Capital Imbalances.

“This is nothing new to the vets, but might scare the newbies: as usual, we are outgunned in terms of caps and supercaps by the ~elite pvp~ foe (I imagine that there’s no one left dumb enough to think this war has anything to do with TEST anymore). Goonswarm has been outgunned on supercaps/caps since 2006, in every single war we’ve fought ever. While it’s shitty that we cannot throw around a blob of supers with impunity like NCdot can, we have ways around this issue”

I have to ask, how the hell do you sit on top of of the great tech throne of the north and not produce capitals? So either there is complete incompetence afoot or this is a bold faced lie. It’s possible supers are being kept as an ace, or the CFC is simply terrified of being out skilled at capital warfare. With cap experienced entities like ncdot and PL it’s not too difficult to imagine that this is a real concern for the CFC. This paragraph also follows the “99 percent” sort of narrative. “Look at those bourgeoisie NCdot blobbing people left and right with supers! Not like us with our working class Megathrons and Caracal fleets!” It’s good stuff, really is, props Mitts.

Using hundreds of bombers to grind structures although resourceful, is nothing to brag about either. I’m reminded by the PLO’s explanation on their reliance of using suicide bombers. “If we had tanks and jets we would use those instead. Since we don’t…” translated for this context: “If we had the doctrines and leadership to strike ihubs with a proper fleet, we would, but since we don’t…” As a bomber pilot I have to cringe at the crude mis-use…at least it’s not something as vomit inducing as Gokufleet.

Lastly the wrap up in the piece, “The War So Far”…

“Two weeks ago we were firmly on the back foot: no useable doctrines, being harassed in the north by Black Legion, outnumbered heavily in Fountain, no functional coordination, and no offensive timers being racked up.”

This is quite telling because I do believe the CFC is a competent entity. I’ve said it before, the CFC is THE most well organized Eve entity bar none. The notion that the CFC would go to war without capable doctrines, without addressing their Black Legion/401K problem up north and without all the proper diplomatic angles being checked leads me to believe that the invasion was quite presumptuous. Go back a month or two and what was happening in Delve. TEST and Tribal were being rib kicked by the CFC, NCdot and PL. Either by cunning ruse or whim, NCdot and PL switched to favor TEST upon the CFC’s invasion. This shows a double failure in the sense that the CFC failed in their intelligence collection abilities and in the prospects of securing diplomatic ties with said entities.

The rest of the last paragraph goes on to refer to how Black Legion was “hired”…probably the same way one hires the Huns not to burn your crops and kill your villagers. Make no mistake about it the CFC is paying Tribute to Black Legion. While at face value this can be seen as a weakness, and indeed dropping billions of isk as to avoid pvp doesn’t do much for your bragging rights, at the same time it could also discredit Black Legion and Elo Knight long term.

Mittani, either by design, but more likely frustration, imposed a sort of cult of personality around Elo Knight back around the time of the Tribute war. This had a double effect of enticing jealousy among peer leadership and limiting the CFC’s propaganda front to just one target. That is to say, if you make Black Legion = Elo Knight you need only discredit Elo Knight in order to discredit BL. Elo taking “goon money” has already put strain on BL’s diplomatic relations. Only time will tell if the agreement would pay off for the CFC.

“We’re not pivoting.”

I’m not completely sold on this. The CFC’s gains in Fountain are receding and there hasn’t been a single notable gain besides what was gifted to the CFC by Sort Dragon. If their objective is to take Fountain’s moons, then there progress there has been minor as well.

However what the CFC is doing right is attempting to divide TEST from their allies PL and the N3 Coalition. Often the claim is that their war is not even against TEST and that TEST is ineffective and would fail were it by itself. Unfortunately for the Goons, the same can be said about them. Without their allies they too would fail so the criticism falls in line with the saying “the glass shard is laughing at the cracked bottle.”

If however the CFC can prove beyond any doubt the incompetence of TEST enough to frustrate their allies, this could be a viable tactic and really one of the only manners in which the CFC will gain their victory. However TEST has followed the same Goon mantra of “we are terrible” so incompetence would not be all that surprising to anyone. TEST would be wise to continue their narrative of the classical “We are terrible at this but we’ll fight to the last rifter because we have heart” mantra.

The moment N3 and PL stop wiping TEST’s ass, Fountain will fall. This is a very true statement. Yet at the same time the moment the Goons are not propped up by their allies and the tech nerf effects start being felt across the board in their coalition, it is unlikely that they will be able to continue this war. They are in a race against time. As much as Mittani wants to portray the situation as preferring a slow and steady pace rather than big pushes and offensives no invader ever profits from long drawn out conflict.

“Major pushes fail” is simply an excuse. If they could, they would do them but since they cannot they’re just going to tread water hoping something will give. This isn’t a criticism but rather the reality of things. Not much can be done at this point but spin the propaganda. In time however if TEST’s shortcomings can be continually underlined, their allies could be more easily bought off. “Betray TEST, help us take Fountain and you can get lay domain over Delve/Querious/ Period Basis.” While PL, perhaps a bit more pragmatic, may be enticed with such prospects depending upon their money making capabilities in the east, NCdot seems more keen on the “leet pvp ego isk be damned” thing.

What NCdot and N3 will not be able to ignore, at least not for long is the resurgence of Solar and what may be a unified Russian front that’s been whispered about for a while now. Bouncing west to east and back west again may take its toll on the N3 coalition and the CFC would be wise to exploit this. Once again just as in the day of Redswarm, or even as recently as the Tribute War against dotbros, the Russians are the Goons’ very best allies. If the Mittani can take advantage of this remains to be seen.

So if you are asking “oh Seraph nice rant but who is winning?” The truth of the matter is, nobody is winning yet, nobody really knows, and that’s that. A few pawns have been exchanged but beyond that nothing of real strategic value with a definitive and lasting effect has happened. The matters above written are the factors that may decide things one way or another and anyone claiming a victor this early in the race is a hopeful zealot of a liar.

– Seraph IX Basarab

139 Comments

  1. Dirk Hardpeck

    IF the CFC wins this, were definitely going to pay N3 a home visit after all is said and done.

    June 28, 2013 at 10:19 pm Reply
    1. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

      Come at me Bro

      June 28, 2013 at 11:13 pm Reply
      1. Dirk Hardpeck

        somad

        June 28, 2013 at 11:17 pm Reply
    2. Kadeshi Extraordinaire

      All you gotta do is name the system, we’ll make sure its nice and cozy for your arrival.

      June 29, 2013 at 4:31 am Reply
  2. briancnelson

    People keep arguing that the Goons are reliant on their allies too, and therefore somehow that is equivalent to the Grr Goons entities supporting TEST. There are a number of reasons that is a shallow and incorrect comparison. The CFC is united by common doctrine, common intelligence and communication tools, common FC structure, and in most ways operates as a very very large alliance entity. It is tightly integrated. The members are aware that the space held by each of them is dependent on all of them.

    PL/N3 on the other hand, have very different agendas than TEST. They have no direct sov holding aspirations in Fountain, because it is not contiguous with their territories. They have no common fleet doctrines, and no common intelligence/communications tools.

    This could be seen pretty well in today’s EI- fight. A rageping from the Goons put up 3 baltec fleets in minutes. TEST’s batphone to its allies took nearly a half hour to reach fruition. In the meantime, forming up for the defense of fountain is costing N3 space to SOLAR. Who knows how long that will last. TRIBE’s numbers in the conflict seem to be dropping, and they face harassment at home. PL can afford to send fleets, and faces nothing to draw it away from the conflict, but has been responding more slowly and with lower numbers as time goes on. Presumably at some point they will get tired of wiping TEST’s rear end because they have no interest in it other than to blow up Goons, and they are taking as good as they give in the killmail department.

    In the meantime, to the extent CFC space is threatened, fleets can and have been taken up to deal with major issues, by the Goons, so the CFC’s cohesion as a unit remains strong.

    TEST, by itself, is incapable of defending Fountain for more than a couple of weeks. Its allies are, at some point in the coming months, almost certain to become bored and move on, or face their own threats. The CFC will continue to grind, as they have proven over and over through the course of their history. Even when TEST brings capital fleets, they take losses to sub caps unless they are supported by NC/PL, as they did in EI- today.

    I won’t say it is inevitable, but when you start seeing it this early in the conflict, it’s a bad sign for TEST.

    June 28, 2013 at 10:23 pm Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      Nobody is denying the fact that the CFC is better organized than TEST and their allies…but the fact of the matter is complaining about TEST having allies and that “they couldn’t do it alone” can be applied to the Goons toward their allies.

      June 28, 2013 at 10:28 pm Reply
      1. briancnelson

        The point I’m making is that it isn’t really a complaint so much as an observation. TEST cannot do it alone, and eventually, it is likely they will have to. Unless they can somehow force a bunch of people with disparate interests to defend them indefinately.

        June 28, 2013 at 10:29 pm Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          Completely agree and I say much the same in the article. At this point TEST’s allies are running on “how much do you hate/fear the CFC.” NCdot in Querious is going to run into a “They came for TEST and I did nothing. They came for Tribal and I did nothing. When they came for me there was no one to do anything for me” type situation. And that may just be enough to keep them fighting.

          Over all NCdot just generally has more emphasis on the pvp culture side of things and they will pull the rest of N3 to do the same. PL will just show up where there are the most capitals to kill but they do are thinking about their future outcome. Regardless of how this war goes, TEST will have to give up some of its resources either to their allies or enemies.

          June 28, 2013 at 10:34 pm Reply
          1. goon

            I thought the article was well thought out but the above comment is a bit silly. nullsec is huge and i don’t believe that goons have any hopes to ever holding all of it. if anything goons are more interested in slow steady growth. NC. is very mobile and dont much care which space they rent, goons have alot more to fear from NC. than the other way around.

            June 28, 2013 at 11:01 pm
        2. -CJ-

          The part you are missing is that N3 and PL aren’t there to rescue TEST. They are there to prevent the R64’s in Fountain from falling into Goon hands and then, to take the fight to the CFC.

          June 28, 2013 at 11:00 pm Reply
          1. briancnelson

            No, I’m not missing that actually. N3 is already splitting its time defending against SOLAR and fighting in Fountain. That split is likely to favor defense the further SOLAR pushes.

            That’s how EI- was lost to TEST in the first place. TEST was left to defend it on it’s own and stood down. That’s going to happen more and more frequently as N3’s home income is threatened.

            They are in it to the extent of grr goons, and no doubt they would like to do some economic damage if they can to slow them down. But ultimately, as a space holding coalition, they won’t be able to maintain an offensive on the other side of the galaxy while fighting a defensive war back home. And SOLAR isn’t going to just sit there. Whether they love the CFC or not, they want their space back.

            June 28, 2013 at 11:13 pm
        3. Barkaway

          Ofc Test cant do this alone, they are outnumbered alot if they are alone, but I doubt the they will have to, since its not any other enemy they are fighting its CFC and that makes it kinda personal for most of the involved parties, they all hate CFC.

          Weather or not there will be an invasion of CFC space afterwards, i kinda doubt it, but i also doubt that CFC is gonna take Fountain.

          June 28, 2013 at 11:29 pm Reply
    2. nc.

      OK the CFC is better organized, doesn’t change the fact that on our own any one of you wouldn’t even be able to down CVA, maybe besides goons. Your points are so irrelevant to the argument it’s baffling

      June 28, 2013 at 10:45 pm Reply
      1. briancnelson

        It changes its relevance to the battle at hand. If both sides are equally dedicated to their allies, it’s an even fight. If one is relying on people with alternative motives, that don’t always square up with their own, they will find themselves on the losing end, if the other side is cohesive and well organized and playing from the same songbook, and is basically relentless. If you don’t get that, it’s a very encouraging sign for the CFC, as I can already hear the song of the slope calling for you.

        June 28, 2013 at 11:16 pm Reply
        1. Anyways

          You forget that the entire motivation for N3 line members is to shoot goons, or at least be in a deployment where the enemy is goons (blue balling just makes the next kills sweeter).

          So as long as we are in a deployment to shoot Goons and we see Goons even if they blueball we know that we eventually get to kill some.

          So to get N3 out of the conflict Goons need to leave the conflict. In regards to Solar. Solar is literally fighting the alts of N3 and maybe a fleet of mains during important timers. And the timers are just being set in the USTZ since you know in EVE the defender is favoured.

          July 2, 2013 at 5:37 pm Reply
  3. anon

    nice read

    June 28, 2013 at 10:30 pm Reply
  4. 2.4

    It’s interesting, in every fleet I’m in, the FC always goes on how we the CFC has taken over 100 moons from TEST. If you or someone trys to say otherwise, booted from comms and fleet.

    June 28, 2013 at 10:35 pm Reply
    1. The Observer

      It’s funny. Goonswarm kind of reminds me of the Khmer Rouge. Kill off all the intellectuals and politicos and the sheeple will follow blindly.

      June 28, 2013 at 10:51 pm Reply
      1. J

        If you actually believe that post then you are retarded.

        June 28, 2013 at 11:20 pm Reply
  5. Gilles Navarien

    Well you’ve done it, you have reached Goblin levels as a rambling clueless moron grats

    June 28, 2013 at 10:50 pm Reply
    1. qwer

      The fuck? This is about best article of this year (though bar isn’t very high). Good analyzation and reasoning.

      June 28, 2013 at 11:05 pm Reply
    2. Not a PL alt cyno

      Butthurt goon fan girl detected. Waterworks imminent.

      June 28, 2013 at 11:22 pm Reply
    3. Soulxlight

      You are dumb as fuck. This article mostly hits the nail on the head though I do disagree with some points but that is to be expected.

      June 28, 2013 at 11:34 pm Reply
    4. sooden

      It’s anti CFC so it’s right end of story.

      June 29, 2013 at 7:35 am Reply
  6. dino

    I don’t think Solar or -DD- have much interest in helping the CFC. As long as the CFC control all the north, they will be stuck with PL, NC and TEST in the south.

    They will for now limit themselves to taking space from RA, XIX and the dinner coalition.

    June 28, 2013 at 11:01 pm Reply
    1. russians are russians

      ra is working with solar

      June 29, 2013 at 2:34 am Reply
      1. -A- 4 lyf

        RA is working with Gorgon Empire you dumbfuck.

        June 29, 2013 at 3:34 am Reply
      2. Geth

        Yes, RA serves SOLAR as a good flying targets for noobs training. I suppose it could be considered as “working with”.

        June 29, 2013 at 4:15 am Reply
    2. old timer

      this is not true , solar is already taking sovs and stations from N3 . like this week one station from NCdot and one from whyso serious. RA is hiting N3 space too . just check dotlan time to time :)

      and yes, so far -DD- is focused on dinner squadron.

      June 29, 2013 at 6:11 am Reply
      1. kack

        Nobody care because it can be all retaken in a minute.

        NCdot. has 50 stations in 10 regions, I doubt a fuck is given.

        June 29, 2013 at 7:25 am Reply
      2. RA dude

        RA and GE are mainly hitting the capital of DSP, who are N3 pets, so strictly speaking, it’s not N3 space. However, N3 caps come to final timers to save structures.

        June 30, 2013 at 7:41 pm Reply
  7. BoB

    “I have to ask, how the hell do you sit on top of of the great tech throne of the north and not produce capitals?”

    How did you get this far without the ability to read? He never said hey don’t build them, every one knows that the null bears love their cap building, but a surprising amount of those same null bears don’t actually fly the ships they build. I lived in the north for 3 years straight, I helped build dozens but never got one for myself.

    June 28, 2013 at 11:32 pm Reply
    1. Roger

      There’s also a general idea that if this turns in to a supercap war, because of the force invovled, it would be a loss on all sides scenario. CFC would probably lose unless PL and NC chose to pull back, but all sides would take heavy losses regardless.

      June 28, 2013 at 11:36 pm Reply
      1. ChuckBisquits

        Even if PL & NC. do chose to pull back. Lets assume a super fight does break out. They’d have cyno’s in system and autobahn them across EVE in a matter of minutes and on the field.

        June 29, 2013 at 12:00 am Reply
        1. Ashesofempires

          That and the idea that because CFC has had so little experience with their supers, things could easily go south for them, and with NC. and PL on the other side when things do go south, they will go very very wrong for CFC.

          Basically, any attempt by the CFC to use capitals or super capitals in Fountain will bring NC. and PL.’s capital and super fleets to the party in short order. While it is entirely likely that CFC has a massive capital/supercap fleet, they are unwilling to use them for fear of a massive fuckup like that which happened in Asakai.

          June 29, 2013 at 7:13 am Reply
    2. Flipflop

      So if the CFC fails to use their supers is not because they lack supers, but are unwilling to use them?

      June 29, 2013 at 6:03 am Reply
  8. Barkaway

    one thing is 100% sure, they have caps and alot of them, onless ofc they sold all the caps they use when bashing Nulli and friends last year..

    June 28, 2013 at 11:34 pm Reply
  9. praiseBjesus

    Cheers at good reads. +1 to you Seraph, it was refreshing. Now don’t afk again or I’ll come find you and kick your ass.

    June 28, 2013 at 11:57 pm Reply
  10. Arnan de Gans

    Meanwhile in the south of eve….
    You know, this game is larger than Goons shooting Test (or whatever the hell is going on there)

    June 28, 2013 at 11:57 pm Reply
    1. Horux

      Yes, please update us on hisec. Verrrry inneresting.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:35 am Reply
      1. Blargh

        Did you hear, some guy got scammed in jita recently for a few hundred mill?

        June 29, 2013 at 5:02 pm Reply
    2. Fud

      This site is an anti CFC place we don’t care about anything down south unless it’s a goon rifter caught in a gate camp then we’ll read it.

      June 29, 2013 at 7:32 am Reply
    3. IS MAI MOUSE POSSESSED?!

      HEY! Guess what? The post before this is about loot mechanics and the effect they have on WH dwellers. You see so much about Goons/TEST because it probably affects the largest player base in EvE. If you are tired of these articles, *gasp*, you don’t have to read them. Happy birthday.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:17 am Reply
    4. Mr Sincere

      Thank you for that valuable, deep, insightful, meaningful and moreover relevant contribution to this thread titled “Analysis of the Mittani’s War Update”.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:05 pm Reply
  11. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

    I started to commend you on your analysis of the situation, but I look below and see you have posted comments to your own article the majority of all the comments here. Are you so desperate for traffic, that you attempt to create your own? Pathetic…..

    June 29, 2013 at 12:09 am Reply
    1. alt in ur tub

      could just rely on butthurt tear queens like you….kadeshi who?

      June 29, 2013 at 4:41 am Reply
      1. Tired meme

        Well done quite original. A bit worn out by now since by taking a look at Dotlan and KB’s (only knew them from AT’s and stuff so wanted to know) quickly it seems that they have around 1500 pilots, enough sov to show up on the influence map and netted 7000’s kills last month.

        So maybe they are an unknown alliance sure but goons probably should have known about them, that’s a failure militarily if you aren’t aware of the capabilities of the enemies your going to face.

        Anyways this is so much better to read about than what has been going on in EVE since the nothing before this.

        July 2, 2013 at 4:56 pm Reply
  12. guest

    Extorting the goons is the first step to killing them.

    Black Legion has not stopped shooting the goons nor would accept terms on that order. No matter if they fight goons up north or south is just necessary to breaking them for BL’s next move. So what is another 3 weeks of quiet in tribute?

    BL is planning their next coup. Paying off an enemy that continues to fight you only provides incentive to continue.

    Black legion will strike again because Goons are struggling, in a bad spot and will pay. Bet on it.

    June 29, 2013 at 12:13 am Reply
  13. ImaNewb

    Is this war the biggest thing to hit this game in years or what? I am new but all I see for news on Eve is this big war. And how is it that you can’t track anyone that is cloaked in this game when probes can find even rocks and Jesse Jackson’s old gym shorts. TEST says VFK by July or October. The CFC has spies all over the place and appear to be holding back their big guns. Screw it, I hope the war never ends. Will TEST ever actually defeat the Goonswarm, will the CFC just continue to cause TEST to lose moons and systems? If a fat frog forks a lounging lizard does anyone care? Every day I have more to read and I learn more about the game as a whole. It looks to me like TEST is getting donkey donged but no one cares what I think either. I am just another new guy.

    June 29, 2013 at 12:56 am Reply
    1. since when

      the reason why you cant probe someone when they are cloaked is because they are cloaked. mkay?

      June 29, 2013 at 1:58 am Reply
    2. Noisrevbus

      A couple of years ago the developers of this game began making changes that perpetuated a long-term trend of making human resources trumph ingame resources. This very article and the ongoing comments regarding various ships is in light of that.

      The result of those changes (or the general unwillingness to deal with and/or provide proper alternatives to that trending form of gameplay) is that most political actors have been gravitating more and more toward each other – and have formed into very large but very few political entities.

      In essence, it’s not that this war is overly exiciting compared to past wars proper. It’s that it’s the only noteworthy thing going on right now as everything else (and large portions of this war with it) have been reduced into irrelevance in said shift from ingame resources to human resources.

      It’s literally the only thing going on worth talking about, since this war at least include spoils in moons and some (albeit limited) use of risky resources (capitals).

      June 29, 2013 at 4:29 am Reply
  14. GB

    The reason NC. has a lot of super capitals and isn’t overly afraid of using them is because when we held the north, the money gained from all the tech was used to give sc’s and titans to members for no cost in most cases.

    Mitten’s on the other hand uses most of the income to pay his mortgage. Outside of goonswarm, shitty alliances such as FA/FCON/RZR worry that if they use the few supers/titans they have and lose some, Mittens wont reimburse them, Probably because they would be horribly fit or pilot error. a good example is dbrb’s fail jump in asaki

    June 29, 2013 at 1:20 am Reply
    1. Name

      that’s total bullshit

      June 29, 2013 at 2:35 am Reply
      1. Confused

        Probably is. Though why do the CFC not have a capable Super fleet? They has the most tech/tax payers/whatever?

        I doubt any ‘L33t’ alliance that has ever existed can touch the CFC when it comes to income so why can smaller, poorer alliances field super fleets and the CFC can’t?

        Not criticizing…just wondering why?

        June 29, 2013 at 5:53 am Reply
        1. Chitra

          Skillpoints. It takes half a decade to train up to fly a titan. Then when you can fly it, you get recruited into PL.

          June 29, 2013 at 6:04 am Reply
          1. benfromid

            Then that’s the fault of the alliances that don’t want to develop and use an effective supercap fleet. PL and NC. became good with their supers cause they went out and used them.

            June 29, 2013 at 4:08 pm
        2. the Eyes of Truth

          CFC alliances in general spend most of the income on making Eve more fun for the line members. Instead of using alliance isk to buy titans and supers for a select few, they subsidize dreads and carriersfor anyone who can fly them and reimburse PvP losses even on small gang roams etc. A vast majority of CFC titans and supers are privately financed by the individual flying it.

          June 29, 2013 at 6:50 am Reply
          1. DubbaYooArr

            “CFC alliances in general spend most of the income on making Eve more fun for the line members”

            Aren’t blue balling and boring the enemy the tactics of choice?

            You must just be referring you burn jita. Now that shit is some serious pvp

            June 29, 2013 at 9:13 am
          2. Maru

            But NCDOT also SRPs carriers, dreads, and roaming ships. Face it, the “proletarian culture, no subsidizing warrior-aristocrats!” thing is bullshit. With the amount of isk the CFC had during the height of the tech-glut, they could afford to pay for both several times over. I don’t know where the CFC’s tech isk went, but it sure as hell did not go to its war machine.

            (Furthermore, I am sure a majority of PL/NCDOT’s titans and supers are privately funded in whole or in part.)

            Woe unto the nullsec alliance that ever forgets that it is a war machine first and foremost.

            June 29, 2013 at 10:43 am
          3. benfromid

            If you need your alliance to subsidize carriers and dreads for the line members then your members suck. Any semi-comatose retard can rat up the isk to buy a carrier in about a week and a half and a dread to 2-3 weeks max.

            June 29, 2013 at 3:01 pm
          4. GB

            most people find rating and mining pointless, i dont see the point of getting home from work, only to log onto a video game and work.. its much better to be in a small group that uses its income to support members so they can pvp and have fun. But hey whatever gets you hard.

            June 30, 2013 at 2:37 am
    2. heh

      Their culture is anti-pvp, as in they don’t know how to, therefore nobody is willing to use a supercap because they don’t know how and will lose it.

      June 29, 2013 at 7:23 am Reply
      1. lalala

        lol,

        most funniest comment from your side of the fence, i really have tears in the eyes because of all the laughing.

        June 29, 2013 at 9:23 am Reply
    3. Soulxlight

      There really isn’t that big of a difference between how many Supers the CFC can field vs NCdot/PL combined . . . there is just the perception of it. This is just like the situation with the old Northern Coalition vs Russians and PL. There wasn’t much of a difference in super numbers just the NC wasn’t willing to field theirs.

      Anybody that has seen the CFC completely fill out a fleet with Supers and Capital know the talk of THEY HAVE MORE THAN US is complete bullshit . . . they’re just too afraid to risk losing a big decisive fight.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:46 pm Reply
  15. yoo

    omg

    Seraph IX Basarab stop posting u are a big noob stop it

    June 29, 2013 at 1:54 am Reply
  16. Real facts
    June 29, 2013 at 2:25 am Reply
    1. DubbaYooArr

      lol this is perfect

      June 29, 2013 at 9:10 am Reply
  17. Darth Nefarius

    This could become the Great war of ages if TEST can hold out & figure out ways to squeez all thier current moon goo ISK quickly enough to fend off the Goon swarm to a standstill

    June 29, 2013 at 2:36 am Reply
  18. TestwithDiapers

    Did TEST just lose another system…?

    http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18463013

    June 29, 2013 at 3:12 am Reply
    1. anonymous

      Same system changing hands over and over since yesterday with neither side able to secure the system

      June 29, 2013 at 3:46 am Reply
    2. Chiggy

      Whoops. Better look again…lolol

      June 30, 2013 at 8:40 pm Reply
  19. eerer

    YAWN

    June 29, 2013 at 3:22 am Reply
  20. Geth

    Elo don’t give a fuck about your “diplomatic relations”, Seraph. Just deal with it.

    June 29, 2013 at 4:08 am Reply
  21. Dannarhetoshi

    Ummm… Except that a Bomber fleet will reinforce an IHUB from 100% in 15 minutes.

    And a Bomber fleet doesn’t have to go gate to gate. And a bomber fleet is hard to kill, can easily blue ball, can disappear as quickly as it appeared, and generally be a giant pain in the ass for enemy morale.

    June 29, 2013 at 4:49 am Reply
    1. Maid

      They’re quite the killer for your own morale too, since flying bombers to shoot structures basically means you’ve lost and are just stalling the inevitable.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:29 pm Reply
      1. DannarHetoshi

        Though this may normally be the case… since the siege fleets have started, MORE people have started showing up to grind structures.

        June 29, 2013 at 1:49 pm Reply
      2. CFC

        L O L

        This is so incredibly wrong lol.

        Bombers are incredibly fast to destroy structures, super easy to bridge to systems to do it too, and easy to hide if a counter bomber fleet shows.

        Yesterday we had a load of fun flying around blowing shit up in bombers while the FC was singing songs and playing guitar, and we got do detonate a structure while listening to him singing our anthem, little bees. This was then followed by another op in which Mittani showed up and was just having a general chat with us, answering grunt questions and generally having a laugh. Our morale could not have been higher last night.

        June 29, 2013 at 2:02 pm Reply
        1. slo

          nice try.

          June 29, 2013 at 3:06 pm Reply
        2. jarhead

          morale must be terrible for the mittani to feel the need to associate with appear before the unclean masses

          June 30, 2013 at 6:05 am Reply
          1. Goonie

            If you think Mittani doesn’t mingle with the grunts, you know nothing about goons, so making an analysis is even more pointless.
            Maybe you should actually learn something about your subject matter?

            June 30, 2013 at 9:36 am
        3. Chiggy

          This must be why all we see or not see is coon bombers. Can’t wait till they actually show up for most of their fights.

          June 30, 2013 at 8:39 pm Reply
  22. old timer

    the CFC had to readapt to the situation change when N3 , NCdot , PL , everybody else , went into the war. that occurs a lot of spinning ^^

    of course , one might say that it was a big error not seeing it comming, and would probably be right.

    but still , future remains uncertain for both sides.

    i think everybody should pay real attention to solar’s progress in the drones. 4 stations , 30ish sovs , and bout 50 moons taken in june. mad props to solar btw.

    one thing i really disagree , is the “race against time” thing about our allies wallet. we are all filthy rich. i do think that not using supers against N3/NCdot/PL is the wise thing to do .
    these combined forces have more super than us , and PL/NCdot are certainly the best alliances in the game about using them. all in all, i doubt its a matter of money. i think we are ” denying the foe ” more than anything else.

    and also , CFC grunts do have a great time so far. sure sov war sucks. but its been a long long time we didnt had so much great fights in a short time like this.

    for the rest , good article.

    June 29, 2013 at 5:42 am Reply
    1. DubbaYooArr

      ‘i think we are ” denying the foe ” more than anything else.’

      sounds fun

      June 29, 2013 at 9:10 am Reply
    2. slo

      lie much?

      June 29, 2013 at 3:05 pm Reply
  23. True story bro

    When N3 has to go protect there shitty eastern renter space from Solar Fleet and leave Test to fight the good fight, fountain falls fast. Only thing that will save Test is the normal faggotry from NCDOT and NULLI “We didn’t want that space anyway.” and decides to leave all there “short term BRO’s” to die to Solar and they remain in fountain fighting because they have cfc stick so far up their asses they don’t know what else to do but be the typical faggots they are.

    June 29, 2013 at 6:27 am Reply
    1. Fartolio

      They will leave Test AND the renters. They can’t fight Solar in their therms, so they won’t fight there. The will leave Test when it will become too hot. Like they always did. Ability to hide should not be offered in null. To nobody. Want to hide? Can’t get your Pro 10 vs. 1 fights? Ok, go to lowsec. But, heh, then there’s CCP’s gay wallet reasons…

      June 29, 2013 at 7:53 am Reply
      1. vahdu

        Solar wasn’t a match in the drone regions, if we go back we would take those few systems back in a few days and Solar would be back sitting in Konora talking about Big Eastern Bears.
        It gets so stale that it is even more fun getting blueballed by Goons for the 20th time in a row then 1 fight vs the so called Tough Russians.

        Putin would be ashamed.

        Solar with Gypsy Band vs ncdot, that was fun, Solar vs Ncdot is a walkover for dots.

        June 29, 2013 at 8:25 am Reply
        1. Maid

          I really don’t understand why SOLAR aren’t getting love love with -DD- and -A- and steamroll the south, would be much easier than setting up shop in the drone regions again.

          June 29, 2013 at 1:27 pm Reply
          1. Geth

            MACTEP came to hate all kinds of coalitions.

            June 29, 2013 at 3:21 pm
        2. tards

          solar vs ncdot isnt a reality its solar vs ncdot (ERMAGERD PL COME AND SAVE US, YOU TOO NULLI!!! SOLAR JUST UNDOCKED A VIATOR ….ooooh noooo geddit offa me waaa qq qq qq)

          I think I summed up that whole spergling attack on Solar pretty well.

          June 30, 2013 at 10:47 pm Reply
    2. DubbaYooArr

      TEST Alliance would lose to the CFCoalition? Shocking… I am really amazed at how many goon comments there are about TEST standing alone and falling/being propped up only by N3/NC and friends. This is a coalition sized bloc war, why would TEST ever be on their own? Are goons just mad their plan to beat up the loner on the block didn’t pan out? Really though, I don’t get the comments. How can CFC be mad at TEST for not fighting alone? Especially considering CFC’s strategy is to bore the enemy. You guys drink some strange kool aid.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:08 am Reply
    3. slo

      U mad bri

      June 29, 2013 at 3:03 pm Reply
      1. True

        I speak truth sir.

        June 30, 2013 at 4:05 am Reply
    4. Guest

      That would be a fatal mistake for them to make…. since they aren’t actually gaining any sov in the West

      June 30, 2013 at 6:32 pm Reply
  24. Addrake

    As a BL member for years… TIL we have diplomatic relations.

    June 29, 2013 at 6:41 am Reply
  25. Chut

    Thank you for this interesting toughts

    June 29, 2013 at 6:43 am Reply
  26. Observer

    I wonder what you write in your war update when you face the entire eve and hold your ground. Shit up more the shitoverloard grand paladin master

    June 29, 2013 at 7:04 am Reply
    1. Guest

      That is exactly it. Just about every “elite” alliance has brought their FC’s troops and capitals. Even horribly outnumbered and outclassed in capitals the CFC is still making super, super, super important gains. Sov was lost in EI- and the ability to place a jump bridge lost to Test, even after the SOTA with beffah begging for a good turnout, they didn’t even fight. Taking it back as fresh sov isn’t winning, the damage was done when sov 5 dropped. At least we got to listen to little Bee’s while fighting over system the next day. The claims of “victory” for being able to place a fresh TCU were amusing. Sov 5 wasn’t returned, there was no victory….. not even on the isk war after the help of capital fleets. No amount of wishful thinking for “goon tears”, propaganda, or ignorant claims of “victory” will win against the CFC. Something will give, but it is far from being CFC morale!

      June 30, 2013 at 6:31 pm Reply
      1. Chiggy

        Omg don’t you feel stupid today since EI is back in test hands. Lol

        June 30, 2013 at 9:18 pm Reply
  27. carlos

    I think its crazy to consider now that solar would be friendly to goons. Let’s not forget that goons didi not deploy to help solar in the last war. They were abandoned and it was not like cfc was doing anything important at that time…..

    June 29, 2013 at 7:29 am Reply
    1. Duh

      Solar never asked for help, the russians are a proud people my friend. lets not forget that FA and RZR (large alliances capable of doing ‘things’ on their own) deployed to assist in the effort but were essentially shutdown by PL, once again- a good war ruined, as this one is being ruined by PL. PL are the true devils in EVE

      June 29, 2013 at 7:44 am Reply
      1. Fartolio

        Yeah they are. But one day they will meet the Big Bear from the east and then there will be a lot of butthurt.

        June 29, 2013 at 7:47 am Reply
      2. Carlos

        So if you abandon your allie, why should solar come to your (cfc) help? Its not a guestion if you asked for help or not. Your allie, never came to help, , specially when you are out gunned. They could have covered the US time zone but they didnt. So i ask again, why should solar come to help?

        June 29, 2013 at 7:58 am Reply
        1. Geth

          Solar has never been an ally for CFC, and vice versa. Their interests have little overlap, because they lived on different sides of New Eden, but they were always more enemies than allies.

          June 29, 2013 at 3:18 pm Reply
  28. DrkyDrky

    Remember the Fazor caracal meatshield during the battle of U93O-A?

    Probably the only battle when the Solar bloc scored a huge victory against N3/PL.
    Apparenlty the meatshield fleet played a role in allowing Solar to butcher the invading fleet.

    June 29, 2013 at 8:12 am Reply
  29. DrkyDrky

    Hly crp, the majority of comments in EN24 are more Goon friendly than the ones on TMC.

    Was Riv bribed off? xD

    June 29, 2013 at 8:19 am Reply
    1. riverini

      No, is just that the GSF damage control brigade was issues in full force…

      June 29, 2013 at 2:03 pm Reply
      1. Rob

        They like to swing it back and forth. Come on, lets face it. This was is just a way for riv and mittani to get both of their sites a lot more traffic. Best way to do that is be controversial after starting a war.

        June 29, 2013 at 2:06 pm Reply
  30. Best Legion not Pandemic

    Meanwhile in Outer Ring, PL are getting their shit pushed in. Seems they are to afraid to fight in Cloud Ring or Fountain as TEST and N3 pets, so we nailed them where they stand. Seems there is a new, much more wiser and powerful legion on the block these days. Thanks for the juicy kills! Nom Nom bitches.

    June 29, 2013 at 8:46 am Reply
    1. Guest

      To be fair, it was a tactically beautiful on BL’s part. Very well played and deserved victory against worthy opponents

      June 30, 2013 at 6:23 pm Reply
  31. I just do not know

    A very good article indeed

    June 29, 2013 at 10:38 am Reply
  32. Alison King

    Id like to see more goon tears , Its funny how elo rolled over like a puppy and let mittani tickle his belly tss a shame really although once a dog always a dog heh

    June 29, 2013 at 2:01 pm Reply
    1. riverini

      obligatory: hey there…!

      June 30, 2013 at 11:47 am Reply
    2. Guest

      There have been goon tears? Really? I thought the fleets have been great… especially the ones with Suas singing. But if pretending there are goon tears makes you happy, carry on

      June 30, 2013 at 6:21 pm Reply
    3. just a goon

      to be honest, it takes elo out of the war for a month then he can come back and smash the goons some more. while he managed to pull more out of the goons bank account as any fight sofar has cost the goons. so i’d see a good tactic from elo. downside is…. i’m a goon…

      June 30, 2013 at 6:47 pm Reply
      1. Snargle

        Elo’s been referring to TEST and Co as the Dogpile Coalition on Kugu. Somehow, he bought Mitten’s propaganda that the CFC are just this poor little coalition of only 30,000 pilots, and they just wanted to steamroll that 10k strong alliance but the rest of EVE wouldn’t let them ;.;

        BoB used to have the same spin: “You wouldn’t be doing so well if we weren’t fighting most of EVE!” And the Goons answer was always the same: “Maybe you wouldn’t be fighting all of EVE if everyone didn’t hate your guts and you had any friends.” Only, now it’s Goons that have no friends. Only pets.

        June 30, 2013 at 8:34 pm Reply
  33. killerchief82

    This is by far one of the best articles I have read regarding the Great War (can we call it that yet?)

    June 29, 2013 at 3:25 pm Reply
    1. bittervet

      no you cant call it that because there has already been two (great wars).

      But yes good article, fresh perspective.

      <<rooting for TEST 'cause fuck goons.

      June 29, 2013 at 4:13 pm Reply
      1. bittervet

        I have no idea what happened to the last line of my message. watever the fuck that is lol

        June 29, 2013 at 4:14 pm Reply
  34. cearain

    “Major pushes fail” aaa v. Cva didn’t fail. Nor did goons v white noise.

    June 29, 2013 at 3:30 pm Reply
  35. Provi Miner

    Whoop whoop its the space police. Seriously goons are well and truely f’ed. Last night their bomber fleet 151 strong choose to pos sit while a gang of 40 light frigs and cruisers (whith mwd and no tanks: Fleet orders: Fast no tank) played rep the SBU with one (count them) one repper after ten min of waiting for the goonswarm provie left, good job blue balling a fleet almost 1/4 in size goons. I used to end this with Provi FTW but times change and not it is -7- FTW. Peace and joy upon you and yours

    June 29, 2013 at 5:03 pm Reply
    1. retard

      only a motherfucking retard such as yourself would engage light frigates with a stealth bomber fleet. its like trying to thicken a soup with water…it just doesnt work

      June 30, 2013 at 10:38 pm Reply
      1. Provi Miner

        151 against frig with WMD lit ? Idk

        July 1, 2013 at 1:17 am Reply
      2. wat

        Evidently only a motherfucking retard like your good self would make such an outlandish statement. Pro-tip: Lead based paints are not a substitute for Mountain Dew.

        July 1, 2013 at 8:59 am Reply
  36. Mike

    CFC doesn’t have the super caps to win this war is because Mittani takes the CFC isk and sells eve time codes. Time is not CFC’s side rather it is on Test’s as income from test space flows while CFC’s has vanished.

    June 29, 2013 at 5:07 pm Reply
    1. kadeshi grunt

      welcome to the effects of mittanis rmt empire

      June 29, 2013 at 5:19 pm Reply
  37. Someotherdude

    Analysis? More like free advice to mittens. Bottom line is: Every day this war continues with no progress from the CFC, TEST & friends gets stronger. Most non-newbs are fighting against Goons to hopefully see them destroyed and to be a part of that Eve history. Some may take the money but the ISK buys no Goon friend. This won’t stop until Deklien is SBU’d and the Goon bank account runs dry – their only big play Goons have right now is paying off alliances to not shoot them. How wonderful!

    June 29, 2013 at 8:05 pm Reply
  38. War Anyone?

    Show me where Goku touched you

    June 29, 2013 at 8:35 pm Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      I’m actually now a member of N3 coalition “comrade.” Just not proper bomber usage. Might as well armor tank a Drake.

      June 30, 2013 at 3:29 am Reply
      1. N3 Dude

        Then get into a Goku and you’ll see what all the fuss is about!

        July 1, 2013 at 9:53 am Reply
      2. Ezek Price

        An abuse of the “stealth” half of a Stealth Bomber but a combat-fit-on-field bomber nonetheless. Being able to field battleship level weapon systems on a frigate that can stay on field during a battle is an interesting idea. Other limited attempts with logi Tech3s and logi force recons always had the scan res problem. I guess it just had to wait for logi frigs…

        July 3, 2013 at 12:51 am Reply
  39. Jarhead

    i’m keen to understand how the strategic battle takes shape. where do the different entities base out of?

    obviously CFC uses B-D and though J5A isn’t a station system it is important. does CFC use POS in J5A? the front line is a long way from Delve. does TEST use forward stations systems like 9-V or PNQ? or are these too close to the enemy?

    what about the other entities. does TEST give docking rights to PL N3 TRIBE etc or do they use NPC stations like those in the serpentis areas of fountain? or are titan bridges so powerful that these entities can base from home and be just a few midpoints away?

    looking at dotlan, to me a obvious place to base would be 4C-B7X in outer ring. it is several jumps away but it is equidistant to both sides of the B-D / J5A border. I would have thought being able to jump directly behind the goons supply lines would have some advantages.

    June 30, 2013 at 6:35 am Reply
  40. lion by

    ok i m new to this game 2 months in it but i know that the goons will be hard to beat.right now its a peacefull war of goons(they are not doing big thinks and they are losing) and this put me to think(ok they didnt deploy many sup or cap i mean no titans of the goons in the radar). this its strange bec they are the goons comon we all know how they fight.look i hate goons i want that test and allies win the war but the goons are planning something, a big think that its bad for test.

    June 30, 2013 at 11:09 am Reply
  41. kamarin

    how can you take yourself seriously after writing that horrid post about “when not winning fast enough becomes losing slowly”?

    brah

    June 30, 2013 at 5:06 pm Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      Welcome to October of last year. And my article was spot on…even members within the CFC admit to this. The only reason things happened as they did was because Elo and Vince had a little emo episode.

      brah

      July 1, 2013 at 3:09 am Reply
  42. Nulli Grunt

    Gokufleet’s kill numbers disagree with your assertions, Mr. Elite Bomber Pilot. I can’t believe you would say grinding structures with them is somehow less bad then finding a novel use for a fun ship class.

    June 30, 2013 at 5:45 pm Reply
    1. unfortunately...

      nulli are infamous for being terribad bomber pilots…don’t talk

      July 1, 2013 at 6:54 am Reply
  43. Monnty

    Nothing of strategic value has happened?? You realise the CFC blitzkreig failed right?

    July 1, 2013 at 9:03 am Reply
  44. Ezek Price

    This just seems to be a paragraph by paragraph breakdown of The Mittani’s articles instead of anything insightful or creative. As what Addrake said earlier, “til BL gets diplomatic relations” or cares/benefits from credit from the community. The emphasis on reputation and perception is misplaced. While a lot are upset over BL’s so-called defection to Mittens money, that is only rooted in their own anti-Goon sentiment rather than understanding the situation or having insight. Perhaps people should be saying “good on them” instead of “BL are weak pussies”.

    Does BL even have a listed diplomat beyond the high command?

    In any case, the final point Ill make is that perception matters most internally not externally. Speaking in terms of the outside looking in, a good commander would look at results and hard benefits, internally within the alliances it is the rank and files perception of their commanders which effects results. The fact that both CFC and TEST members have held a conviction in their cause and their leaders is suggestive that this may end up being a long war indeed (or at least fought out in a few chapters rather than just one invasion).*

    *Addendum: recent changes in the political situation involving S2N may give the N3 stronger convictions too. That remains to be seen.

    July 3, 2013 at 1:07 am Reply

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