ships_carrier

The war in Fountain continues. The current winner of that conflict depends on who you ask and what day you ask. It is a hotly contested war both in New Eden and around the blogosphere. With all the propaganda that gets thrown around, how’s a capsuleer supposed to know who’s on top?

You can always look at the influence map – in this case January 31, 2013 in the left and June 26, 2013 on the right.

Unfortunately it’s a snapshot in time and doesn’t tell the ongoing story so much as the final result. I’m more interested in the on going story right now.

In cases like this, I always fall back to my industrial ways. In other words, I do a cost analysis. Even in New Eden, resources are not infinite. Victory eventually goes to those with the better balance sheet. But with alliance balance sheets a closely guarded secret, we can’t really see what the cost is.

However, we can infer the cost from losses. To that end, I put together four charts showing how four of the major players are doing in this current fight. And yes, I’m going to share them with you. I’ve lifted all the numbers for these charts directly from Eve Kill.

As you can see, TEST is the only one of the four with the red line above the green line. That is a bad position to be in. Their ISK bars are not good either. They’ve lost more than they’ve destroyed. From a purely economic viewpoint, TEST is not fairing so well.

But as I was putting these together, I noticed something else in these charts. Have a look at the month and year the trend line started up for each of the combatants. From bottom to top, Fatal Ascension really got involved at the beginning of the declared war between the CFC and TEST. That’s fairly typical. They’re like Goonswarm militia, only called to arms when needed.

Both the Pandemic Legion and the Goonswarm Federation curves start going up in December 2012. That’s when Crucible came out. I’d like to believe the trend is because of increased high-sec activities, but an investigation of the data does not bear that out. For instance, December 2012 is when Pandemic Legion was helping destroy Against ALL Authorities. It was a null-sec conflict and the majority of ship kills and losses occurred there.

Then we come to the TEST chart. Their line starts up a full month after Goonswarm’s and Pandemic Legion’s. In December 2013, TEST was somewhat active in Catch and Providence. In January that rolled back into Delve and their ship losses seriously escalated. Did someone miss a political clue or something? It sure seems that way to me.

So it seems this cycle of conflict actually started six months ago. TEST has been in the red the entire time, and even before Crucible launched. That makes me wonder how long they can keep going. The fact it’s been this way with them for a year argues they can keep at it indefinitely. But cold reality argues for a different outcome. What do you think?

Fly Careful

– Mabrick

He’s been around the block a time or five. With over 15 years of MMO playing under his belt and a memory that reaches back to pencils and dice, he offers his insights into the not so virtual reality we call Eve Online.

110 Comments

  1. Alison King

    They will go on fighting , who doesn’t like the tears of a clown, oops of a goon I mean.

    June 28, 2013 at 12:36 pm Reply
    1. tonker

      I like your tears.

      June 28, 2013 at 3:32 pm Reply
  2. ScrapIron Gunt

    To most people the elephant in the room isn’t that Test lose ships hand over fist. It’s that they are so good at it they have become financially adjusted to what for them is normal. The telling picture is that Test has proven itself able to manage the heavy losses of its members for long periods of time and rather than proving their on the brink of collapse you have proved why they will survive and thrive in this war. Their far more capable of handling that financial situation that any other Alliance.

    Personally I think the biggest threat to Test would have been allowing them to become space rich. All that money would have seen them loosing billions in corp thefts that would shake the fabric of their Alliance. Goons have done test a great service by invading and more so still by attacking R64s and preventing Test fail cascading under the weight of moon goo.

    Cheers
    Gav

    June 28, 2013 at 12:50 pm Reply
    1. Tim

      So why are test (by their own admission) heavily backlogged for ship reimbursement?
      This is not a troll, I actually want to know the reason if it’s not that they are broke.

      June 28, 2013 at 1:46 pm Reply
      1. da'truth

        If you listen to the soundcloud like a good little trooper, you’d know that there are only a very few in TEST that have wallet rights. I’m sure mainly because of spy’s. Its typical in an all out war, even Goons scaled back on who has roles to dig into the wallet.

        June 28, 2013 at 2:06 pm Reply
        1. Tim

          True, but the CFC is still paying out within 48-72 hours at the longest. Some people in TEST have been waiting weeks now.

          June 28, 2013 at 2:58 pm Reply
      2. ScrapIro Gunt

        G’day Tim, in my opinion it’s all about volume, for the past two months Test has been slaughtered by all the major players of eve. Goons have stunning administration services but every other alliance in the game is playing a game and don’t play eve like its a job. Their finance departments are smaller and the losses are larger for test in number but not often cost on a indaviduel ship basis. It’s time above all else Test’s finance team is lacking and not funds in my opinion. The testies I have spoken to 1. Would continue to fight even if the Alliance was broke and 2. Have the individual funds to finance their own personal war effort indefinitely such is the importance of this war. While the Mittani says Test and friends are not having fun he couldn’t be further from the truth. This is the best war in everyone’s eve history and it’s shaping up to be the biggest. Test and N3 are excited about the war and above all have enjoyed watching the CFC efforts at a blitzkrieg style invasion come to a grinding halt. Using Sort Dragon to destroy the HBC and flip his sov was planned well in advance. The moment Montolio declared he wanted a war, the CFC, started planing and battlefield shaping for a war they were not ready for at the time Montolio declared his intentions to his Alliance.

        June 28, 2013 at 2:44 pm Reply
  3. Gerugamesh

    What you really need here is a chart that overlays isk lost with alliance income.

    June 28, 2013 at 12:50 pm Reply
  4. the boy

    Yo its with coalition vs. alliance wars the same way like the phenomenon of fleet fights and why every grunt in every alliance has a almost perfect killboard.
    Lets say you are a grunt in a fleet fight. Your fleet gets obliterated by the enemy, you lose every ship in your fleet (10000 losses) and you just manage to kill 10. Now the grunt is on all the 10 kills and has lost a battleship. The grunt will still have a perfect >90% efficiency while the whole battle was <0,01% efficiency.
    Now lets put this in a bigger perspective.
    Lets say CFC vs TEST have an even fight. the CFC brings 500 BS, TEST brings 500 BS.
    lets say the CFC loses halph of their fleet and TEST does the same. And additionally lets say the CFC forces consist equally of FA, CONDI, FCON and CO2 and the losses are spread equal too.
    Each CFC alliance will have a great efficiency because they have killed 250 TEST BS while only losing 63 BS each, even though the overall battle should be counted with 50% efficiency.
    I hope my english is good enough to make this understandable

    tl;dr
    your article is shit
    kb stats only apply to solo pilots who dont participate in fleet battles at all

    June 28, 2013 at 1:11 pm Reply
  5. Storm Rider

    To be honest from an outsider point of view, I think evenews itself is doing its best to make sure CFC looks like its winning the conflict for sure.. I can only guess at their reasons for that, but from a 3rd player point of view thats really a distorted vision of reality… Test is definitely not losing instead I would expect goonz to retreat b4 too late as they tried to take a big mouthful this time and its about to choke them

    June 28, 2013 at 1:16 pm Reply
    1. Tim

      Just.. lol
      You really don’t have a clue bro.

      June 28, 2013 at 1:44 pm Reply
      1. dikreathz

        goons are actively recrutings in highsec its sad its a scramble for the desperate. even i will vote for them to burn i donate ISK to test for this I will for they need to win … just for shits and giggles you know?

        June 28, 2013 at 2:46 pm Reply
        1. Cake

          Why would they not recruit in h/s they already are full of spies! Sounds like a h/s bear who’s been stung by some little bee’s

          June 28, 2013 at 3:11 pm Reply
          1. Goonie

            And we love our spies like they are really our own! Seriously. I’ll die to save a spy if I have to.

            June 28, 2013 at 3:38 pm
    2. Killboardsaregreen

      Eat more paint chips.

      June 28, 2013 at 1:57 pm Reply
  6. Woods

    This doesn’t accurately reflect who is losing the isk war it just show that some ships died and they cost someone something to buy them, you would need to see alliance income and even then you could only get an estimate as to the losses as they may not replace all ships lost only the ones on alliance ops. You also have not taken into account the personal wallets of each of the member’s, they could have fortunes that they dont mind burning through to win a war. I’m not saying you article is bullshit but its not far from it.

    June 28, 2013 at 1:18 pm Reply
  7. Someotherdude

    Two months of Delve in a defensive war and now three weeks of Fountain in a defensive war. No doubt TEST has been losing more ships, that is a major part of their alliance culture. While Goons want the “TEST is broke” propaganda narrative to bloom, (and one must wonder if that’s the motivation behind this article) I’m wondering how much of that ISK loss is ships vs. SOV / SBU / POS. That info isn’t included. Statistics and charts can say anything you want them to say unfortunately, depending on the data sources used or omitted so I can’t say this info is surprising, nor is it probably accurate. Either way I can’t see TEST caring much. They may not use “honeybadgers don’t give a fuck” moniker any more but it still applies.

    “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.” – Mark Twain.

    June 28, 2013 at 1:23 pm Reply
    1. Tim

      I’d like to point out that TEST did a that was posted hear yesterday and they acknowledge they are in a backlog of reimbursement at the moment. That’s screams financial difficulties to me. They are assessing what they can still afford pay out before paying out.

      June 28, 2013 at 1:42 pm Reply
      1. Violent Tempest

        When you have a 12,000 man alliance and only three people with access to the reimbursement wallet; yeah that would probably back up a little. I mean unless you expect reimbursement guys to do that as their only job in life, not have a real life, and not have say a family or anything.

        June 28, 2013 at 3:21 pm Reply
        1. Tim

          OK, so they don’t have the manpower to reimburse their members. That still means they will be members down for fights which is no different.

          June 28, 2013 at 3:26 pm Reply
          1. Someotherdude

            I guess you’re assuming that without immediate SRP, TEST nerds are unable to field any other ships because they are so poor. Is that what your suggesting?

            June 28, 2013 at 3:32 pm
          2. Tim

            No I’m suggesting that when you don’t pay SRP, SOME members will either not be able to or will refuse to turn up. That’s just the inevitable truth of playing with a variety of people online. die hard members that are chanting TEST while running down their road with a giant TEST flag will plex to make sure they can turn up, but you have the other extreme that will say “I spent 300m on a ship and didn’t get it back yet. I’m not putting more money into the pot until I get it back”.

            The longer this goes on and the more people outside of test are screaming “TEST are broke” the worse it will get.

            June 28, 2013 at 3:37 pm
          3. SYJ FC

            No they still show up. act is they know SRP is coming and they have a number, they get paid when its pulled, strking doesnt expediteshit. They show up, kill a goon fleet with N3 and friends,then accidentally their own fleet to add more to the SRP pile.

            AKA TEST being TEST

            June 28, 2013 at 7:14 pm
  8. Provi Miner

    Don’t know if I would go with that cost chart. A cash flow statement would be better. For instance are they replacing stuff lost are they cutting or shifting funds from unneeded departments. Tough to tell eve doesn’t have sox act so we don’t know. One other thing are test members willing to eat some of the loss’s?

    June 28, 2013 at 1:59 pm Reply
  9. You Nube

    Except you have left out the entire N3 collation who has won every single battle against the CFC. Wow way to be miss informed.

    June 28, 2013 at 2:09 pm Reply
    1. Gilles Navarien

      The same “every single” fights you won when you lost Tribute?

      June 28, 2013 at 3:38 pm Reply
  10. Rubish

    What we need is a proper write up summarizing the action -which as even a nube in EvE knows, is that CFC is getting stomped to pieces by N3. This report is amazingly uninformed. If you don’t know whats going on or even who is involved, don’t post.

    June 28, 2013 at 2:14 pm Reply
  11. Rubish

    What we need is a proper write up summarizing the action -which as even a nube in EvE knows, is that CFC is getting stomped to pieces by N3. This report is amazingly uninformed. If you don’t know whats going on or even who is involved, don’t post.

    June 28, 2013 at 2:14 pm Reply
    1. Rob

      Yeah, that must be the case. Even though TEST & Co have been standing down on a number of major timers and CFC is holding space in Fountain. Sounds like they are getting super duper stomped. L2P.

      June 28, 2013 at 2:16 pm Reply
  12. Nullibro

    Why don’t you show stats on N3 kills & losses to? Why don’t you show stats on ALL who are fighting the CFC in Fountain? You are only showing Test and PL stats so your not proving a point at all here bud.
    If you want to show stats on how both sides are doing in terms of ISK kills, show all involved parties. You are missing a lot of info from both sides.
    And what about adding BL, and 401K in the picture?

    June 28, 2013 at 2:16 pm Reply
    1. Tim

      I wouldn’t bother adding 401k. That’s basically adding a fleet consisting of 6 guys and a bag of skittles to the equation. 401k are way too small to be worth mentioning now they don’t have BL with them.

      June 28, 2013 at 2:17 pm Reply
      1. -CJ-

        Right, nothing going on in Venal. 401k is just running noob gate camps not killing CFC moons and dunking CFC fleets.

        http://kb.eve-401k.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=18444757

        Nothing to see here. Move along…..

        June 28, 2013 at 2:21 pm Reply
        1. Tim

          Pretty much. We’re letting 401k have their fun, it keeps them occupied and out of our hair in fountain. Once we’re done dealing with TEST, daddy’s gonna come back home and we’ll take the belt off.
          I doubt it will take more than a week to reverse everything 401k are doing once the war is done.

          You 401k guys are funny, I’ll give you that. I get to listen to you on comms all day and you truly believe you are causing actual damage, but the truth of it is, most of the CFC aren’t even aware you are still fighting us now BL are not with you. :p

          June 28, 2013 at 2:38 pm Reply
          1. -CJ-

            I’m not in 401k dude. Just laughing at how you the CFC calls them irrelevant yet BoB is constantly trotted out as the boogeyman to whip your membership into shape. And how exactly are you going to deal with them? you going to SBU their home system? :)

            June 28, 2013 at 2:44 pm
          2. Tim

            BoB is dead bro, well dead.
            No one treats BoB as the boogeyman lol
            They were, they failed, they died. That’s all of BoB.

            June 28, 2013 at 2:55 pm
          3. Luigi

            You’ll maintain a lot of credibility if you try to stick to facts instead of rhetoric. Leave that to mittens, you’re not very good at it at all.

            BoB didn’t fail. they were feared/respected/loathed yet highly effective as an entity until they had the plug pulled from underneath their feet. They didn’t fail militarily more than any other entity in the game, they collapsed because they were beaten by the metagame.

            Once they lost their identity, it was an inexorable slip into the abyss – but it was their identity that everyone feared. Those pilots are still around and many of them are fighting and beating cfc/goon now.

            You’re not talking to kids saying the boogeyman doesn’t exist. He did and you hated him and he went away because you grew up. That is all.

            June 28, 2013 at 5:45 pm
          4. Tim

            lol. BoB were not this almighty powerhouse they made themselves out to be. Compared to modern day alliances they were weak. The fragments of their alliance may still be around shooting stuff, but literally nobody is sitting around worry about shards of BoB. The fact that you hold them in such high regard is your problem. To me and to a lot of goons, they were a bunch of nobodies then, and they still are today.

            June 28, 2013 at 6:36 pm
          5. Luigi

            I didn’t particularly like them – but I’m not so blase about my importance in this game to realise that they were formidable opponents. If you’re to compare them to today’s alliances, maybe they’d be considered small, but not weak. They were as big as they needed to be. I hated them for what they did to the original Fountain Alliance which I was a part of. They started the metagame before goons. Stop putting your fingers in your ears singing ‘lalalala’ hoping the guy who will say Goon’s aren’t scarey will go away. They smacked goons all over the shop for a good while and to pretend they didn’t would demonstrate your blinkered viewpoint.
            If you can’t see your enemy’s strengths for what they are, no matter your desire to not admit weakness, then you are just a partisan bystander with little but a “laughing Lord Haw Haw” approach to propoganda.

            July 5, 2013 at 9:26 am
      2. Nullibro

        Your are so full of crap m8. Its hilarious. You would have make a good Enron employee!

        June 28, 2013 at 2:33 pm Reply
  13. -CJ-

    Major players? You looked at FA and left out NC., Nulli and the rest of N3?

    Yeah test is losing lots of ships like they always have. The people there “helping” them are beating the stuffing out of the CFC.

    June 28, 2013 at 2:16 pm Reply
    1. GaShOuSe

      Since when are CFC having the stuffing beaten out of them lol. CFC are well in the plus column on kills v losses.
      If that’s what having the stuffing beaten out of you is, then I’m signing up for a beating.

      June 28, 2013 at 2:19 pm Reply
      1. -CJ-

        They are green in kills Vs Test/Tribe. But who isnt? Do I really need to go pull up links from the N3 vs CFC battlereports?

        Opps, looks like you guys lost a station last night too….

        http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/R-BGSU

        June 28, 2013 at 2:25 pm Reply
        1. GaShOuSe

          And yet CFC still holds 10 systems in Fountain, and TEST & Co failed to defend what they considered to be the most important system in the region (EI).

          I’m not saying CFC are rocking the win streaks, but I’d hardly call that a beating.

          CFC probably won’t even defend that station tbh. Those systems were handed over to CFC at the start of the war and serve as a good distraction but they are not key systems to the deployment.

          June 28, 2013 at 2:29 pm Reply
          1. -CJ-

            Oh i see. When you guys take a station, Ihub etc, it was “critical” but when Test takes one its ” we didnt want that station anyway. Sort gave it to us for free”.

            When I said you were taking a beating, im talking fleet fights vs. everyone but test/tribe. Miniluv’s hisec freighter ganks are helping those isk stats too.

            Hell, you guys are bringing out 90 man bomber fleets to shoot structures while N3 are dropping Supers at will. Thats the kind of situation -A- and friends were in while getting pushed out. Unless you guys find a way to fight N3’s cap fleet without losing your entire cap fleet in the process, this is going to end in a loss for you guys. It will take a long time but it will still be a loss.

            June 28, 2013 at 2:40 pm
          2. Tim

            No mate. When TEST announce here:
            http://evenews24.com/2013/06/27/test-mini-sota-please-ignore-update/

            On the audio update that a system is so important, they can’t stress enough how important, then it’s important.

            An end of pocket station in a system that was handed to us by MWM on the other hand is clearly not important. You know the definition of the word right?

            Why would we spend ages arranging and deploying supers, using high ranking FCs and a bunch putting a bunch of isk on the field, when a skirmish FC with less than 4b in bombers can drop a structure in the same amount of time? Deploying lots of small cheap ships can have a massive tactical advantage. Especially when the fleet is announce last minute and put together ad-hoc. By the time the enemy can respond, the fight is over.

            At present, N3s cap fleet really aren’t a threat. N3 won’t fully commit their cap fleet cos regardless of how the battle would go, neither side would benefit from a full cap deployment. With pressure on N3s home space increasing now too, it’s even less likely N3 will commit them, as they will need to keep their caps on standby in case they need them for home defense.

            At the moment it’s too early to decide who will win or lose this one. One thing is for sure though, if the anti CFC side is full of people with zero tactical knowledge like yourself then tit shouldn’t be too hard to deal with.

            June 28, 2013 at 2:52 pm
          3. -CJ-

            Right. Green killboards for NC in tribute dont mean anything, only sov matters. Now in fountain, stations and sov dont matter, its green killboards. Test cared so much about EI the forgot to tell their allies about it until a couple hours before. It was retarded for them to lose that system buy hey, its test. :) Just a week ago you guys were on here crowing about how you conquered those o7M8 systems and they were evidence of you winning. Now you have lost 2 of those stations and they “dont matter”.

            “Why would we spend ages arranging and deploying supers, using high ranking FCs and a bunch putting a bunch of isk on the field, when a skirmish FC with less than 4b in bombers can drop a structure in the same amount of time?”
            Thats BS and you know it. Ive done structure grinding in bombers only to see the enemy drop slows and triage on the structure right at the end to save it. Hours worth of work undone in 10min. How many bombers does it take to do the same damage as a Nyx? you might want to check your math on that buddy. And if arranging supers is so much work, how come N3 and PL are doing it?

            “At present, N3s cap fleet really aren’t a threat. N3 won’t fully commit their cap fleet cos regardless of how the battle would go, neither side would benefit from a full cap deployment.”
            Man i dont usually throw out the term ”drinking the koolaid” but you sound just like -A- around this time last summer. The only time you guys have dropped caps that i saw netted you 25 dead dreads. N3 put caps on the field and saved that Test titan. They brought out supers last night to shoot SBU’s. There’s a slowcat/dread fleet just about every day. I have yet to see a single CFC super on the field. If you think NC. and friends wouldnt benefit from a super fight you are crazy. NC. and PL are just waiting on you guys to do it.

            “At the moment it’s too early to decide who will win or lose this one. One thing is for sure though, if the anti CFC side is full of people with zero tactical knowledge like yourself then tit shouldn’t be too hard to deal with.”

            Right we are all just useless pubbies. Keep telling yourself that.

            June 28, 2013 at 3:10 pm
          4. Tim

            Well you do sound like a useless pubbie.

            People from all over are saying a variety of different things. Some are us some are not and i know it’s a lot to get your head around. To clear it up for you though: I am in the CFC. We do not care about the sov so much as the moons. We do not care about the killboards. We do not care about backend station systems. We do care about strategically important systems, such as EI, a pretty serious bridge system, and J5, the entry system from staging. All cleared up? Good

            We can and have dropped many many structures with just bombers and are yet to see triage dropped last second. It really doesn’t take long when you get fleets of 120-150 bombers ready to go. It takes nowhere close to “hours of work”. The great thing about bombers is that anyone can take out a bomber fleet. Nowadays, intel is important. There are spies everywhere. you start putting together a cap fleet (which can take hours to arrange properly) and the spies pick up on it quick. By the time you get to the objective the enemy has fleeted up. Bomber fleets we arrange on the spot. A call goes out, and within 15 minutes the fleet is in the air (with no announced destination). By the time the spies have found out where the fleet is going and what they are doing its way too late to mount a counter offensive. If you really don’t understand this, then I doubt you ever will so no need to further discuss.

            There’s is a difference between deploying some caps and a full capital commitment. We don’t want a full capital commitment, and I doubt anyone else does. If this turns into a cap war, then there will be no winners, only “losers who lost the least”. There will be caps in this fight, but hopefully for all involved no capital blobbing.

            June 28, 2013 at 3:25 pm
          5. -CJ-

            LOL. Didn’t take long to get you to resort to namecalling :)

            So the moons are what matter eh? Care to provide us with a count of how many you took in the first week of the war vs. how many you hold now? And if the moons matter, how is what 401k is doing to you guys in your own backyard not relevant? Lets also remember, your NAP with BL. is only 30 days. What do you think they will go back to doing once that big wad of isk is no longer keeping them at bay? How will your coffers look if you keep having to pay them not to shoot you? Just curious, how much does a “please don’t shoot our structures” deal with BL. cost? :)

            Right, keep telling yourself your bomber fleets will win this for you. In Sovwar caps rule the day. In POS war, caps rule the day. I never said you cant drop structures with bombers. I said it is a grind compared to doing it with supers. Did you guys grind out Tribute in SB’s since they are so efficient and safe compared to supers? Didn’t think so….

            You keep acting like super deployment isnt happening but it is. PL is here to kill your caps. So is NC. As soon as you guys drop caps they will pounce and you know it. That’s why you are using bombers instead. You aren’t holding your caps back because of spies or because you dont want to inflict TiDi on all us pubbies. Remember? you guys are all about ruining the game for us. No fun allowed!

            Also, are you telling us you guys have so big a problem with spies that you can’t deploy your supers?

            Thanks for clearing it all up for me. I understand now. What was “true” to you guys 2 weeks ago is different from what is “true” now. The stats that mattered a week ago are different from the stats that matter now.

            June 28, 2013 at 3:54 pm
          6. Tim

            To be fair I was just quoting you.

            Moons do matter, that’s the whole point. After the war we need to moons, but our wallet is big enough to go a LONG time without them. That’s why 401k don’t matter. Once we are back home, taking moons back from 401k won’t be much of a problem. 401k is a considerably smaller entity to deal with. I can’t confirm any concrete numbers of moons held as I don’t deal with that department. I wouldn’t even like to speculate as that would be quoted everywhere and used as ammunition.

            With BL, I really don’t know. we can afford to continue to pay them, but whether we will remains to be seen. again I wouldn’t like to speculate.

            I don’t know how to explain bomber fleets beyond what is clear. They ALREADY HAVE been working. We’ve been using them daily for a while now and they are quite effective, cheap to run, can be run by junior FCs and can be set up in very small amounts of time. If we needed the cap FCs to run every single structure bash, they would get worn out way too quickly, and we would not be able to protect our caps from spy intel, so we would need a full support fleet on standby. Bombers you need 120-150 people that can fly a bomber and follow simple instructions and a junior FC. That’s all.

            Again, there’s a difference between deploying SOME CAPS and a FULL CAP COMMITMENT. noone has committed a full cap and supercap fleet and there have been statements from all over that show that noone really want’s that. If CFC deployed a full cap fleet and PL and NC fully deployed too, everyoen else would deploy, it would be a massive battle and all sides would take heavy losses. There are no winners in that. If PL/NC were fully deploying caps, then there would be a cap fleet already in B-D to attack our staging system and end the war.

            We don’t have a problem with spies beyond what most other have. Lets be serious, we know everything that everyone is doing before it happens. That’s why on all sides destinations are revealed last minute and tactics are concealed. As an example I’m in 401k and TEST comms right now alongside my CFC comms.
            Cap deployments take time though. People have to stage, cyno alts neesd to be in place, its all very hard to conceal everything. So say for example we decide to deploy caps to EI. We start putting the fleet together. By the time we actually get there, there could already be a PL fleet in position to bridge in. Subcaps are a lot easier. You get everyoen together then give them orders jump by jump. With bombers it’s even easier as we have them on standby already.

            Whats true now has always be true, and when dumbasses say differently they are just being dumbasses. Return to the original SOTG. Moons are our priority, this is not a sov war, we do not need stations, we do not need sov (although to hold the moons it will become a requirement). At the moment though we just need to tenderize the beef before cooking.

            June 28, 2013 at 4:18 pm
          7. -CJ-

            EI may have been important to test. They were retarded and lost it. Big surprise there. NC. cant even use tests jumpbridges anyway so I doubt this will slow them down any. Lets just state what everyone, including your high command knows to be true: If this war were CFC vs. Test, CFC would already own most of fountain as you guys would have used your supercap superiority to grind the whole region in no time.

            “I don’t know how to explain bomber fleets beyond what is clear. They ALREADY HAVE been working. We’ve been using them daily for a while now and they are quite effective, cheap to run, can be run by junior FCs and can be set up in very small amounts of time. ”

            So thats why you guys have historically ground sov/moons in SB’s right? This is why you guys don’t commit caps:
            http://killboard.nullisecunda.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=21713

            The biggest coalition in the game is going to fight a
            skirmish war and hope the other side just gets tired/bored/frustrated and goes home. Seems like -A- tried this tactic last summer…..

            “Again, there’s a difference between deploying SOME CAPS and a FULL CAP COMMITMENT.”

            Dude, N3 and PL caps are deployed and committed. They are being used to grind structures now. When you guys dropped dreads on that test titan that got tackled the other day, what happened? It looked suspiciously like a supercap escalation to me. My point is you guys have used caps instead of stealth bombers a lot in the past to take moons and sov but all of a
            sudden you aren’t. Goon high command has come up with some good propaganda as to why that is and your members are obviously buying it. The truth of the matter is that your command knows if they commit caps they will lose them. Your line that there is no winner in a big capfight is hogwash. I guess there are no winners in Battleship or cruiser fights either? Again, the battle i linked above looks suspiciously like N3 going balls out with supers and you guys standing yours down after initially escalating with dreads.

            Sov is important when you guys get some, not important when you lose it. Moons are important when you get them, not important when you lose them. Killboards are important
            when you guys have a green one, not important when yours is red. Supercap advantage is a big deal when you guys have it, not a big deal when the other side has it. I totally get what you are saying.

            June 28, 2013 at 5:11 pm
          8. Tim

            Right now, the choice is SBs. they are the tactic and they are working. You don’t understand and that’s fine, you are not involved so it doesn’t matter. The decision is though that the time, effort and risk of deploying caps to structure bash is not worth it compared to how quickly SBs can shoot a structure down. Honestly, Im done repeating this and you clearly don’t get it. the fact that it works very well and this is being proven on the field seems to be irrelevant to you so that’s that. In simple words SBs are overall more effective that Caps for the current objective. And yes there are lots of figures that support this. Come back once the war is done if you want to dispute it, but for now I’m done with this subject as its our strategy and I don’t need to explain it to someone that thinks CAPS > ALL.

            As for the cap deployment if that’s a full PL/NC cap deployment then I weep for you. Why have you not already pounded our deployment zone with caps and left us unable to fight? Because the losses would be too high on ALL SIDES. I’ve been involved in a lot of cap warfare and had a lot of involvement in the risk analysis of the supercap side of this current war. It’s a tricky subject so don’t hurt your head with it, but it overall boils down to noone on either side wants a full cap deployment. Go ask PL command yourself if you don’t believe me.

            Sure, keep repeating yourself. But from us, from the beginning and including now the stance has been “moons matter sov doesnt (yet)”.

            And i know, you’re going to follow this post up with another one repeating exactly the same thing in new and exciting ways. I’ll probably just copy paste this response to every post that is just you repeating yourself over and over.

            June 28, 2013 at 5:26 pm
          9. -CJ-

            So explain how what is going on from the N3/PL/Test side is NOT a full cap deployment? I just showed you how you guys trapped a titan, escalated with dreads, then your enemies dropped supers but you guys let your dreads die rather than drop your supers. To everyone not drinking up Mittani’s propaganda, that looks like one side escalating all the way and one side not. You can spin that however you like but its the truth. If 80+ supercarriers and 5 titans being dropped on a dread fleet isnt a FULL supercap deployment, then enlighten us all to what is.

            My guess is, you guys are looking for some way to Metagame PL or NC. out of the fight before you commit your supers cause you know your supers will get dunked if you don’t.

            “And i know, you’re going to follow this post up with another one
            repeating exactly the same thing in new and exciting ways. I’ll
            probably just copy paste this response to every post that is just you
            repeating yourself over and over.”
            Right, cause copy/pasting CFC propaganda seems to be all you know how to do. Im telling you to look at the evidence Ive posted and all you can respond with are the excuses your leadership are giving you as to why things are going the way they are. Yeah we all know that PL are too afraid to commit their supers to a fight. Everyone knows PL supers are just for ratting. :)

            Oh, and look at that http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Fountain#sov
            R-B and EI back in Test hands. One of your EI TCU’s blapped by an uncontested Dread fleet. Mittani’s update on his site today is especially hilarious in that he is bragging about EI in the first paragraph. Seriously, everything you have written here is ripped right off his TMC alliance update.

            June 28, 2013 at 7:30 pm
          10. Tim

            Theres a difference between dropping some caps into a fight that they are are sure to surrvive and a full cap commitment. a full cap commitment is when they are running caps as a primary fleet and would cause all sides to be using full fleets of caps every battle.

            As for EI, the Ihub was stopped from going up, and we polished off the TEST tcus last night. But you realise that CFCs op success was purely to stop the system being level 5 right? :p

            EI was a jump bridge system. By dropping it to level 0 TEST can no longer use it to JB, so that cuts down their ability to quickly travel back and forth.

            During the EI fight TEST lost 5 carriers, 2 dreads and and huge number of battleships as well as the objective, so that is an even better outcome. If you were watching the ani stream last night by the way you would have seen the bomber fleet at work. A large tower packed with resists being reinforced in under 20 minutes is pretty good.

            June 29, 2013 at 1:49 pm
          11. anonymous

            http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/EI-O0O Goons didn’t take ei-

            June 28, 2013 at 7:40 pm
          12. Guest

            Do i need to remind you that most of what they hold in Fountain they were given.. They might have 10 systems, but they didnt have to fight to get them..

            June 28, 2013 at 3:18 pm
          13. GaShOuSe

            They were given 5, of which I believe 4 are still held, which means they have taken and held 6 by force.

            June 28, 2013 at 3:28 pm
  14. Ashesofempires

    Test has been fighting a defensive war for several months. Goonswarm and friends have not. Goonswarm and friends spend a ton of time suicide ganking in high sec. PL and NC. Have always had highly efficient war machines. Your argument also ignores income. TEST has inhabited a marginally profitable area of space until recently, while CFC has had control over technetium supplies for years. At this stage of the war it’s more unlikely that any party to the conflict is broke. The best way I can see to evaluate who’s winning is to look at which side has the momentum, and that is TEST at the moment.

    June 28, 2013 at 2:19 pm Reply
    1. Rah

      TEST only have backwards momentum though… they are losing space. Once test reclaim all their lost space and start pushing into CFC space, we’ll talk momentum.

      June 28, 2013 at 2:21 pm Reply
      1. Ashesofempires

        That’s odd. According to the sov maps and dotlan, TEST lost a bunch of space at the start, and has since recovered a large portion of it. Momentum is more than just taking systems, moon, and stations. It’s the concept that your side is in control of the war, and you are dictating the pace of combat. At the moment, CFC has ceded that momentum to TEST and co. by blue-balling on most fights. It’s still far too early in the war to pick a winner.

        June 28, 2013 at 3:23 pm Reply
        1. Rah

          Dotlan shows that there are 12 systems not belonging to TEST which originally did belong to TEST. They also have a heavily crippled JB network in fountain. I would say they are in a far worse position than they were when they started, thus backward momentum.
          I do agree though, this is WAY too early to be saying who will win or lose, there are so many caveats and variable I wouldn’t be willing to even hazard a guess for fun let alone bet on anything.
          Even momentum is a terrible factor. You can have a great inital momentum then fail to keep it going and get stomped all over. If the CFC can’t keep fleet attendance high that could be a serious issue. Sov grinding is tough work.

          June 28, 2013 at 3:32 pm Reply
          1. The Facts

            You’ve been hitting the CFC koolaid pretty hard it seems. In reality, since the first week of the conflict where TEST lost a bunch of stuff, it has been a near-continuous stream of CFC loses in sov, poses, and fleets.

            You can usually tell who’s losing by the side that is blue balling/standing down/not forming or is predominantly using guerrilla tactics to harass the enemy or kill objectives. That would be the CFC.

            June 28, 2013 at 4:03 pm
          2. Rah

            TEST have been standing down as much as the CFC. Where are all these losses? There are 12 non TEST systems in fountain. 12 systems in 2 weeks is not a bad feat. Guerrilla tactics mean nothing lol. They are the trademark goon tactics used in every conflict.

            The general consensus across eve is that TEST have already lost this, and this is just a case of who will win between N£/PL and CFC, which remains to be seen. Either way, fountain won’t belong to TEST at the end of this.

            June 28, 2013 at 4:22 pm
          3. Kool-Aid Man

            “The general consensus across eve is that TEST have already lost this

            That would be the CFC koolaid talking. In case you didn’t know this, everyone hates the CFC except the CFC.

            Notice all the noob nuets flooding null? That would be part of the everyone not liking the CFC. But keep telling yourself we all enjoy your company, whatever makes you feel better about Mit making his real life living off your participation.

            June 28, 2013 at 4:42 pm
          4. Rah

            We aren’t talking about who likes who though are we?
            Noone likes the CFC, you are super super correct. The CFC are globally hated.
            But the fact remains that most people you ask will agree that TEST are being held up by their temporary allies. Once those allies no longer prop them up they will fall.
            Ad if the CFC are destroyed, I would not be surprised if one of those allies said “actually, we don’t like TEST either” and kill off TEST. Most people seem to think it will be PL that rule the region once all is said and done and that’s not a bad bet.

            June 28, 2013 at 4:50 pm
    2. heh

      Actually, the main point is that CFC is a shit ton of alliances, that are fucking huge, that whore killmails. With 30 alliances in a fleet, they will each always have better efficiency than the one alliance fleet they are facing.

      The only reason any of the CFC alliances get mails is because of blob plus f1.

      June 29, 2013 at 7:31 am Reply
  15. Kiser

    FA a major player in this are you kidding me…

    June 28, 2013 at 2:40 pm Reply
  16. Eric

    This is fairly inaccurate in one major point.

    All of the entities have been part of a big coalition. Except TEST, who dropped out from HBC reacently. Now, as the killboard work, they multiple the kills, but not the losses. So for this chart to be made accurate, you’d haveto crosscheck ALL the involved parties kills, and eliminate the ones, where multiple parties where present and create a artiffical coalition killboard. Unfortunately this is not possible on evekill (afaik), so the workload of doing this kind of stuff is simply impossible.

    Also this is the mechanic, that allowes the “killboards are green” type of mentality. For example in the Fountain war you’d haveto create one killboard for TEST+N3+PL and one for CFC+BL. If that kind of killboards were possible to do on evekill/zkillboard, the results would be HUGELY different, beacause the one entity gets only one kill instead of 10ish kills in case of CFC having 10ish participant alliances.

    Only possible scenario, where killboards are actually compareable is in case of entirely intependent alliance’s, whitch we dont have too many in eve anymore. 401K is close to that atm. but I believe it will be only matter of time, when they blue up somebody again and the kills start to multiply.

    June 28, 2013 at 2:47 pm Reply
    1. lalala

      or you keep it simple and compare only the KB from the both most active alliances on both block who always spend the majority of the fleets. you will end up again with goons and test.
      the numbers are still not perfect, but you can see a trend.

      June 28, 2013 at 4:25 pm Reply
  17. Nullibro

    So many Goon spacenerds on the forums these days trying to convince everyone that they are winning its amazing. They fear so much seeing their internet space empire get destroyed. Maybe its because they are afraid they would have to get out of their basement and go back to school or find a job if it happens.

    June 28, 2013 at 2:52 pm Reply
    1. Fact or Propaganda?

      Everyone should keep in mind that when the Goons fought BoB, they A) Had a pretty bad killboard through most of the fighting and B) Hardly had the Economic backing TEST does. I would assert that this is historically and currently a moot point. TEST has shown resolution is the key factor here.

      June 28, 2013 at 9:51 pm Reply
  18. GoingBroke?

    Nobody has lost a war from going broke in ages. Why the fuck are we still doing this garbage analysis? Not to mention Nulli said they’d prop them up and Test has had donations from rich members before. Stop being shitlords and track their ability to get bodies in fleets and stop saying FA is worth a damn.

    June 28, 2013 at 3:17 pm Reply
    1. Random Grunt

      Who is FA again

      June 28, 2013 at 4:58 pm Reply
      1. The Observer

        I’m guessing it’s short for NOT EVEN RELEVANT.

        June 28, 2013 at 9:30 pm Reply
    2. Duh

      Hi. the entire south is about to collapse because TDS (former HBC) is broke- watch for it

      June 28, 2013 at 5:20 pm Reply
      1. GoingBroke?

        Haven’t really been keeping up with anything outside of the southwest because there’s so much crap to filter through and its honestly taking up all the downtime in fleets to just cover that.

        However, I’ll tip my hat to you when all their SOV drops cause they fail to pay bills. That’s pretty rich tho m8.

        June 28, 2013 at 6:10 pm Reply
      2. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

        The entire south? Um, N3 holds a lot of the south… we are not going broke….Test/Tribe… I don’t know about their finances. TDS may be going broke, but the entire south won’t collapse from it. Maybe when DD takes over their sov, we might be able to have interesting PvP again without having to fly entirely across Eve for it.

        June 28, 2013 at 11:53 pm Reply
  19. Horak Thor

    Remember Test flies in primarily test fleets so all its losses and all its kills are its own.

    Goons FA etc fly in fleet s together meaning they get 100% of the kills and 20% of the losses. these kb stats are massively unrealistic.

    June 28, 2013 at 3:40 pm Reply
    1. Spoon

      Surely that would be 500% of the kills and 100% of the losses?

      June 28, 2013 at 3:44 pm Reply
      1. Horak Thor

        if the cfc fly a fleet of 200 and test flies a fleet of 200, they each lose 100 and kill 100.

        test has 100 kills 100 losses
        Goons have 100 kills 20 losses
        fa has 100 kills 20 losses
        rinse and repeat for sma lwn fcon etc etc

        so they get 100% of kills and 20% of the losses thts what i mean

        June 28, 2013 at 3:47 pm Reply
        1. Spoon

          But that’s not how it would work. If your exammple it would be this:

          TEST 100:100
          GOONS 100:20
          FA 100:20
          LAWN 100:20
          SMA 100:20
          FCON 100:20

          This would show as

          TEST: 100:100

          CFC 500:100
          So they show 5x the actual kills since they are all duplicates. The losses would be the correct number.

          That said, it would be impossible to work out as not every kill would be all 5 alliances on every kill, and test would be TEST/PL/NS/NC/NX etc.

          June 28, 2013 at 4:26 pm Reply
          1. Daniel Grist

            your obviously not understanding me and it’s getting a little boring trying to explain :) so ill give it 1 last crack.

            Look on eve kill for a br of cfc vs test, the kills dont get magically duplicated, the br will show 100 kills 100 losses (in this theoretical fight) by then clicking on the alliances kb, you will see relating to the battle it has 100% of the kills but only the losses it sustained in the battle. (this also works for corps kb in alliance’s hence why nullsec alliances/corps generally have a much higher isk efficiency than lowsec)

            It gains a massive boost to isk killed by only 1 pilot shooting an enemy ship, and only takes a loss if 1 of its own are destroyed thus the 20% of total losses in a fleet fight.

            June 29, 2013 at 3:20 pm
    2. blergh

      No that’s not always true, Tribe and other allies fly in test fleets alot. More so with this war. Ping goes out, everyone as well as test jump in Fleet unless their alliance is also forming.

      June 28, 2013 at 6:05 pm Reply
  20. Gunnar Williams

    ‘In December 2013, TEST was somewhat active in Catch and Providence’

    what are you, from the future?

    June 28, 2013 at 3:45 pm Reply
  21. Guest

    Can you clarify your chart. The Green bars at the bottom of the Test graph are always higher than the wee red ones … yet the cumulative lines above show the opposite?

    Unless the wee bars at the bottom are not value, but # of kills/losses.

    June 28, 2013 at 3:46 pm Reply
  22. Guest

    The only statistics you can trust are the ones you falsified yourself.

    June 28, 2013 at 4:33 pm Reply
  23. Hi

    Um…. Maybe someone else has mentioned this, and I somewhat high atm so maybe I misunderstood what he was talking about, but wasn’t Crucible launched in late 2011? was like there expansions ago? Why is the Crucible expansion even mentioned?

    June 28, 2013 at 4:45 pm Reply
    1. Barry

      I think he meant retribution. Yes crucible was 2011.

      June 28, 2013 at 4:53 pm Reply
      1. SYJ FC

        dear lord, crucible ws in 2011? I jine 2-ons before incarna… where did my life go…..

        June 28, 2013 at 6:43 pm Reply
  24. Sreggin Wej

    A carebear telling us that killboard stats win war from his armchair. Just what this war needed.

    June 28, 2013 at 4:47 pm Reply
  25. U know who

    This is dumb. You’re comparing apples trees to oranges.

    ISK killed is irrelevant as it’s counted multiple times. Look at ISK lost per alliance since that’s not counted redundantly. One would expect TEST to feel the brunt as all the structures being ground are theirs. As the conflict moves to CFC sov the owning CFC alliance will see a similar ISK loss spike as structures are destroyed.

    The loss trends are more important at this point.

    June 28, 2013 at 5:45 pm Reply
  26. Nullibro

    Another station lost by Goonswarm!

    June 28, 2013 at 5:54 pm Reply
  27. reader

    one aspect the charts do not explore is the income changes. Loss is only relative to income. Test now holds equal if not more income then the combined CFC. They can easily handle more waste. The question is how deep are the pockets that fund this war, and how long can they keep the war going. Unless you can measure the incoming flow, the out going flow isn’t going to show much of anything.

    June 28, 2013 at 6:28 pm Reply
  28. I am just going to comment on the war. This is what is happening. The war is kind of a stalemate at this point. CFC made major victories in the start and then it started to slow down. Test started to to retake systems but at a slow right. Last night the CFC killed another ihub and tcu without a fight. Neither side is really winning at this point. It is just a back and forth for the same systems over and over again.

    Until one side starts to take systems at an increasing rate than we can start to say who is winning. As for money, CFC have massive reserves of money and still have plenty of R64’s in Pure Blind. Not as much money as before but it is something. Test however have just gotten all their moons and are still paying for debts from their last war in delve. I don’t know what N3 plans to do with their money so I will not say anything about that. But a prolong war is not in the best interest of either but more so the CFC

    Anyways, yeah it just too early to tell. If you want to see who is winning you should look at fleet numbers. That is the best way to tell who is winning, or in least in the eyes of the members and that is what really matters.

    June 28, 2013 at 6:54 pm Reply
    1. also there is a going to be/is right now a fight in EI-O0O for the 5th. so just sov ping pong

      June 28, 2013 at 7:10 pm Reply
  29. PL grunt

    PL has been heavily recruiting ex -A- corps and players that are highly active in PVP since December which explains these large increase in kills and a reduction of losses.

    Expansions will always bring more people back to eve to increase PVP activity, or more likely be available to die horribly to those who never left.

    The recent conflict in fountain has aided these numbers to an extent, goons only seem to fight 1 out of 6 timers when PL turn up, Test always have higher losses but enjoy it way too much for this to affect their morale. From the Kd numbers it looks like this is working out well for goons them so far but the isk funding this and to be gained and lost and the morale feeding the war and the metagames behind it is always going to be the more interesting factor then some Kd ratio.

    June 28, 2013 at 7:10 pm Reply
  30. SilentWhispers

    Poor financial models make poor predictors of outcomes. Of more impact will be if word that EXEs recent reluctance to engage in number is due to an impending switch of sides turns out to be true.

    June 28, 2013 at 8:45 pm Reply
    1. Ex-EXE

      You ever wonder why EXE is never mentioned anywhere? I doubt it will matter what side they pick. They got their asses handed to them by the locals in Aridia a number of times (and I don’t mean R&K either) and it’s been so long since they had an EXE led fleet that that they may of forgotten how. I used to like being part of EXE, but after moving to Fountain, and then Cloud Ring they got lazy….they are the reason I got bored of null-sec and EVE.

      June 29, 2013 at 8:55 am Reply
  31. Lasernuts

    I thought it was Retribution that came out in December 2012 :/ .

    June 28, 2013 at 9:13 pm Reply
  32. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

    Way to go genius. FA is part of the CFC, N3 is the other major player,where is their info? And PL has left the theatre for the moment…. Get your crap together before you go spouting off.

    June 28, 2013 at 9:35 pm Reply
  33. dino

    Until recently, CFC fought in plenty more mix fleet than TEST. Each CFC Alliance claims all kill but allow claim or portion of the loses. Their KB stats mean nothing.

    Add up CFC alliances loses and compare them to TEST+Tribe loses… You will be a getter picture.

    June 28, 2013 at 9:50 pm Reply
  34. qwer

    Oh, this is even more idiotic than goblin speaking about his “solo pvp”. Kill / death ratios don’t mean damn anything for alliance economy. You don’t get money from killing enemy.

    If you would want to make some point with your graphs, you could say that TEST is damn durable alliance. Awful battle success, but people still keep on playing. Generally losing their ships more than killing since august 2012 and member number has still grown from ~8k to ~12k. I think that is pretty unique.

    June 28, 2013 at 10:45 pm Reply
  35. World of Stats

    Why compare TEST to Goons when TEST to CFC would be more useful. Stats mean nothing if not presented correctly.

    June 28, 2013 at 11:49 pm Reply
  36. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

    If you want an accurate set of stats, then simply make a loss board for CFC+BL, and one for Test/Tribe/N3/PL. Tally the losses from each and attribute it as kills for the other side. Then it is simply a matter of weeding out the ones that were done by random entities there for the purposes of “getting their gank on”.

    June 29, 2013 at 12:02 am Reply
  37. Fartolio

    Just like in RL, who relys too much on stats will get fucked.

    June 29, 2013 at 7:43 am Reply
  38. Lisa

    Getting ‘facts’ out of killboards horribly difficult as hostile actions on friendlies is a huge problem, totally fucking up killboards and your statistics.

    It is impossible to get an accurate reading from killboard summaries or battlereports. It may be possible to get an overall ‘feel’ but no actual facts unless you go through every mail yourself and create your own analysis of the fight.

    In turn, one might even intentionally ‘whore’ on friendly capitals or killmails in general, if those are indeed bound to go down and use the battlereports and killboard statistics as propaganda.

    It wouldn’t be a stupid move either, considering the amount of people thinking:
    “I’m not gonna buy into all that propaganda stuff, I’ll look at the ‘facts’ myself!”

    June 29, 2013 at 10:29 am Reply
  39. Nerd

    This article tells you nothing, you cant base an alliances financial situation based on their losses. Did you know that a good percent of those losses for test are just newbro rifters and mess around fleets? Test do not take their killboard seriously nor should anyone.

    June 29, 2013 at 2:56 pm Reply
    1. mmm

      Looking at the isk bar doesn’t make it look so bad as well. Lost a lot of ships but their efficiency isn’t bad compared to it. All those “Rifters” might be killing shiny ships.

      June 29, 2013 at 6:51 pm Reply
    2. muh

      also a big part you forget to mention. ships cost isk, but they have to be at the destination also. for the goons that means a mutch higher fuel cost. since especialy if test is using rifters. they are being build in test space. while the goons have to jump every single ship in. since they can’t build in the deployment area.(or at least it isn’t the smartest thing to do.

      June 30, 2013 at 6:55 pm Reply
  40. watcher

    These loss numbers are still incredibly low on the scale of nullsec alliance income. It’s been said that Goonswarm has a several trillion isk warchest built up, even with no income that’ll sustain 25 bil a month losses for a right good while. I’ve heard it said Nulli’s monthly income is somewhere in the several hundred billions a month, sustaining them pretty comfortably indefinitely.

    As long as these losses remain mostly subcap heavy, the war will last indefinitely in terms of isk.

    June 30, 2013 at 5:20 pm Reply
    1. Poopsmith

      That’s what I thought too, but if you look closer the cart is in the billions, and the numbers in the 10k range, which would indicate that it’s in the trillions, which makes more sense. I was really wondering how it was possible that I personally could have funded several months of huge alliance warfare. Then I realized I was an idiot. 25 tril sounds more resonalble than 25 bil.

      June 30, 2013 at 9:13 pm Reply

Leave a Reply