Comments

GSF_HBC

Love them or hate them, the fact of the matter is that the Goonswarm Federation is THE most well organized well supplied far reaching entity in the Eve Universe. To paraphrase Napoleon and probably some other dead people that were good at running states and winning battles, power is measured in your ability to break other people’s stuff. Perhaps man for man there are many other entities which are superior, and perhaps the Goons are not as good at breaking other people’s stuff as they would have outsiders believe. Even so they’re still probably better than anyone else.

I’ve been accused many times of being anti-Goon (or really anti-any entity that I’m not a stand in propaganda piece) when really my greatest difference with the GSF would probably be an aesthetic one. There is also a level of smugness which holds back GSF and leaves a great many potentials unexplored. Regardless, let us consider how the GSF has risen to the pinnacle at which it is now.

The Rise


We’ve all heard the story of the glorious goon patriotic war of make revolution against the elitist bad bads of BoB ad nauseam. To be short and blunt, it wasn’t that amazing. It’s value is due more to its myth and propaganda relevance mixed with some sincere, but ultimately misplaced nostalgia.

The true rise of the GSF happened years ago with the fall of the old Northern Coalition (ONC). The Drone Russian Federation, a coalition of various Russian alliances owning the eastern portion of 0.0, had fought with ONC a long and bloody conflict.The GSF provided meager assistance to their ONC allies and when the Russians hired Pandemic Legion to fight, the old order of the north changed.

In this situation the GSF had everything to win. Although there was a fear that the Russians along with their PL allies could push and take even Deklin, having not really fought in much of the conflict, the GSF was rested and ready to defend their holdings while the DRF were tired and pleased with their new gains. The attempted “head shot of VFK” by Pandemic Legion ended with the two sides agreeing to a truce. The DRF, having won their war not by the strength of their own arms, but by that of mercenaries, could not hold their gains. The GSF came in and swept aside the meager resistance of the defenders urged on by the myths of previous wars.

It is at this moment when the GSF surged forward as an Eve super power. It is here that the GSF leadership (plural) showed their brilliance. After having promised the ONC their sweat and blood they left them high and dry. They swept aside the elements of the old northern coalition that would not become part of what would be known as the “CFC” and absorbed the rest as coalition members.

Now idealists may hold to some higher order of things. “Resist to the end! Fight the betrayers!” We can see the difference between idealism and pragmatism in the examples of Morsus Mihi and Razor. The sad truth is that people are fickle and go to extremes to avoid discomfort and danger to their property. Idealists, although to be respected and admired perhaps, end up with nothing but their ideals.

The GSF were extremely generous, in the best sort of way: generous with the property of others, with the remains of the ONC. Generosity with your own wealth will buy you friends for as long as your wallet keeps providing. It implies to the beneficiary a certain level of entitlement and when they no longer benefit from you in this manner, they will grow to hate you. It is better to be stingy and loved for your exceptions in generosity rather than generous and hated for your exception in stinginess because eventually you will be destitute and hated for the nature of man is to be fickle and quick to forget.

Stabilization


Throughout the course of these events, the GSF also mentored the well known TEST Alliance Please Ignore. GSF has by far the best recruitment program in Eve tying the membership to an external element outside of just Eve. TEST was the other entity that had this element.

It was after this quiet conquest of the north, that the GSF turned their focus on Delve and the “free port thunderdome” concept. Critics could say that this was a spectacular failure but in truth it kept the GSF line members busy with some sort of goal after the boring defenseless conquest of the north. Propaganda, especially internal propaganda was and still is extremely important in maintaining a unifying narrative.

GSF leaders understand this and by their method and of course by their resources, a strong narrative could be maintained. It’s hard to argue with success. Up until this point what had they succeeded in? Although not the exciting and glorious revolution that the BoB war is portrayed as, the conquest of the north and subsequent crowning of GSF as the leaders of the north has made them the most powerful and influential entity in Eve, so much so that even Pandemic Legion does not stand to challenge them to this day.

The Technetium Cartel has filled the pockets of the GSF and maintained allies and would be enemies at their side.

Quick history: When AAA defeated RA, they offered their enemies Querious as to avoid the grind in the east. RA settled in Querious beside Nulli Secunda, and not content with their holdings, attacked Nulli. This conflict drew in TEST and PL. RA was knocked out of the war soon after leaving Nulli to hold off TEST and PL by themselves. AAA made a token show but ultimately left Nulli to fall (was better for them) and the war raged on deeper toward AAA. The hardship of an actual campaign forced Montolio to ask the CFC for help which they provided.

A Challenger Appears: The Tribute Campaign


I won’t go into the details of who was at fault. At the end of the day “something” happened and ncdot became persona non grata visa vi OTEC. The Clusterfuck Coalition squared off against the Dotbros (Northern Coalition. and Black Legion, and later Nulli Secunda) and the prize was Tribute and Vale of the Silent.

The Dotbros were a sleek blend of numbers and capability and an enemy unlike any the CFC had ever fought before. They weren’t brought down by meta like BoB, nor were they driven out of the north like White Noise of Raiden due to their unwillingness to resist coupled with internal dispute. The Goons would have to actually fight a capable and determined foe.

While the CFC made territorial gains toward Tribute by sheer force of their numbers, the road to UMI was paved in their wrecks as the dotbros played a skillful game leading the CFC onward. Most if not all of the battles not fought over a timer were soundly won by the dotbros.

Where the CFC skill came in was in the leadership’s ability to motivate their members into filling fleet numbers for the structure battles, the fights that actually made the lines on the map move.Now knowing that the CFC would eventually outgrind the Dotbros, but lose just about every other fight, it was a race against time. Could the CFC grind dotbros out of Tribute and Vale of the Silent before their members morale would be depleted by the repeated losses?

The fall of UMI while problematic for the Dotbros, also netted them hilarious capital kills as the CFC logistics machine lurched forward. GSF propaganda was once again skillfully implemented. The Mittani singled out Elo Knight as the sole reason for the CFC’s troubles in Tribute. This was a skillful veiled attempt to introduce enmity between Elo and the other FCs and dotbros leaders.

Although not the sole originator of internal disputes it certainly added stress within the dotbros, enough so that Vince Draken and Elo Knight parted ways over something stupid like a falcon or a woman. To this day I would say that the dotbros had a real change to hold Tribute and Vale of the Silent had they not fallen to internal disputes and if they could have come to terms with Solar on their eastern front. CFC fleet numbers had begun to dwindled even before the fall of UMI and it would have been unlikely that with skilled diplomacy, the dotbros would not have been able to at least hold part of their territory.

Better a skillful leader at the head of sheep than a short sighted one at the head of lions.

Division in the House


With Tribute and Vale secured, tech moons farmed, sov redistributed, the GSF couldn’t help but notice that their adopted son had grown up seemingly over night. TEST now sat as the center piece of the largest coalition in Eve history, The Honey Badger Coalition (HBC). Within their ranks they had the numerous Tribal Band which only added onto TEST’s own superior numbers, and super cap behemoths like Raiden and Pandemic Legion.

While the CFC was generous enough to help out TEST’s sov grinding in Delve and Period Basis, this put a strain on CFC/HBC relations. Any generosity given in excess is fertile ground for enmity in its absence. Feeling powerful and confident with good reason, Montolio urged that HBC should challenge the CFC for the Alpha position and for all intensive purposes they were fully capable to do so. They out numbered the CFC, had PL and Raiden’s Supercapital fleets on their side and without doubt the N3 Coalition that spawned out of the old dotbros (minus BL) would more than likely been happy to hit the CFC. The Battle of Asakai gave us a glimpse of what a HBC/CFC war would have looked like, and it was not a very good result for the CFC.

It is here that we once again see the skillful use of propaganda and diplomacy by GSF leadership. Montolio was portrayed as an ego maniac, a child, someone not interested in the well being of his own coalition. The HBC was attempting to emulate something the CFC had taken years to do in a much shorter time span. Mittani was surprisingly passive at Montolio’s actions and words instead side stepping their impact and portraying Montolio as insane.

Even so this would not be enough in and by itself. While PL loved to have TEST and the rest of the HBC as fodder allowing PL to deploy every fleet doctrine they could fancy, at the end of the day they were still in the pocket of the CFC via the techmoons. Shadoo fell in line with the Mittani narrative that had been skillfully put in place saying that a sov war would not be fun. Shadoo instead had a thunderdome idea in NPC 0.0 space and that it would happen soon (TM).

Not only has this not happened but the warnings that sov war grinding is boring have also been ignored. Pandemic Legion has been grinding most of the east in a war against Solar for the past few months and before that Razor and Fatal Ascension did not seem to have issue with a sov war as they attempted to prove themselves against the N3 bloc. Unfortunately their ambitions went further than their reach and were quickly reminded how dependent they had become on the CFC coalition.

In any case PL had little to gain and much to lose from being part of such a war. The true skill in war is not to win a fair fight, but to make sure you never have to fight in a fair fight. You bring all your advantages against your enemy and when you are as sure as possible that you have that, then you strike. Fair fights are for sports and board games.

On the Eve of Odyssey


It was through this manner of propaganda and diplomacy that the HBC was destroyed. It was a coalition built on sand that rose too quickly to be stable. The CFC is taking advantage of the current instability within the west/south west by giving their members something to do in preparations for what the CFC may need to do in the upcoming update. With tech being balanced and new moons being added, TEST may be sitting on CFC’s future source of income. Anyone imagining the current fighting in Delve to be anything other than a test of resolve for the former HBC members is foolish.

Surprisingly enough, ncdot has opted to side with the CFC in their fights against TEST rather than striking at their former opponents. Unknowingly, ncdot leadership is simply strengthening the CFC, something which they will skillfully make use of.

Someone once wrote that a leader must be a fox to avoid snares and a lion to fight off the wolves. In many respects the GSF has been apt at doing a decent job at both while their foes exceed only at one or the other. It is far too soon to imagine what Odyssey will bring but I for one cannot wait to see which old friends will be turned to enemies, and with which devils we’ll all be breaking bread with out here in 0.0.

Whatever happens, the Goonswarm Federation and their Clusterfuck Coalition will, without a doubt play a major role, sometimes more subtle, other times in typical arrogant overt nature but in each case pragmatism will be carefully chosen over ideals and those who fail to do much the same, will be left in the pages of history.

– Seraph IX Basarat

84 Comments

  1. tash

    eve is sooooooooooooooooooooo boring

    June 2, 2013 at 8:11 pm Reply
  2. Tronnie

    Focus will be shifting towards the North once Delve and Querious show some kind of stability towards the new owners. IMO Goons will try to take the west, but other entities will prevent that happening. Delve might even recoil back towards CFC sov.

    June 2, 2013 at 8:29 pm Reply
    1. I just do not know

      Initially I thought that the attack on Test was the normal dogpile on a faltering alliance to cause them to fail cascade so they (various entities) can suck up active members, but I started to get a feeling that there was more to it than that, when I found out that the Goons had SBU’d NOL, and I became aware of people talking about a big campaign the only conclusion one can come up with is a full on sov campaign to roll up Delve and Querious.

      June 2, 2013 at 8:48 pm Reply
  3. slo

    either way cfc is just a shit coalition, the only thing that is going for them is numbers.

    June 2, 2013 at 8:42 pm Reply
  4. Who Cares about EVE "Politics"

    Wow playing Eve for 5 months now, and this “drama” is bullshit.

    June 2, 2013 at 8:42 pm Reply
    1. RandomNullGrunt

      The drama is what makes EVE… well… EVE. Show me another MMO that has this much player driven content. The ‘Meta Game’ is what keeps a lot of us bitter vets even remotely interested in keeping our subscriptions up.

      June 2, 2013 at 8:55 pm Reply
    2. Ira Katz

      Anyone who has grown out of Tom Greene movies will find it hard to get any purchase on the incredibly contrived and juvenile meme based “content” of 0.0 politics.

      June 2, 2013 at 9:36 pm Reply
  5. NC grunt

    Goons were given the Dekklein space by former Nc. When drf invaded with pl goons just reset the old nc.It was part of an agreement with drf in order for the last ones never to invade Dekklein full force, We all know goons had no chance to defend
    Dekklein alone. Goons rsetin NC at the moment it happened was a crucial reason for NCs defeat. Rest is history.

    June 2, 2013 at 8:45 pm Reply
  6. TL;DR

    TOO MANY MOTHERFUCKING ACRONYMS IN THIS MOTHERFUCKING GAME !!

    What a bad article, didn’t understood shit. OK so GSF are Goons, ONC are old Northern

    Coalition, PL is PL, but who the fuck are DRF, CFC, HBC, N3, etc.

    Stop fucking using acronyms and explain who the fuck all this guys are if you bother writing the “history” of EVE!

    June 2, 2013 at 8:46 pm Reply
    1. RandomNullGrunt

      DRF = Drone Region Federation (Here be Russians, RIP)

      CFC = Cluster Fuck Coalition (aka Goons)

      HBC = Honey Badger Coaltion (aka Test and co, RIP)

      N3 = Nulli, NC. and tbh I can’t remember who the 3rd N is or if there even is one.

      June 2, 2013 at 8:52 pm Reply
      1. zef

        The 3rd N is Nexus fleet, but there are many others in the N3 coalition, the N3 name is pretty ill-suiting, but catchy.

        (other alliances are alliances like HUN reloaded, the ATX finalist, Mildly intoxicated, The Kadeshi, PANGU coalition Cult of War WHy So Serious
        Honor and a couple of others that I have probably forgotten)

        June 2, 2013 at 9:07 pm Reply
        1. slo

          n3 is what riverani came up to call the coalition and not what the coalition calls themselves.

          June 3, 2013 at 5:18 am Reply
    2. F-U

      TOO MANY MOTHERFUCKING NOOBS THAT DON’T KNOW HOW TO USE GOOGLE!
      What a shit player, don’t understand how you made it past the trial.
      High sec scrub should stick to your missions until you decide you want to learn like the rest of us did. RESEARCH.
      Stop shitting up this page with your whining and your broken caps lock. Pod yourself out of this game, and go play Neverwinter/WoW fucktard.
      ‘This has been an announcement from the Eve Bitter Vet Society’

      June 2, 2013 at 9:05 pm Reply
      1. TL;DR

        THEN PETITION CCP IF YOU WANT NEWBIES TO NOT BE ABLE TO GET PAST TRIAL IF THEY DON’T FUCKING KNOW ALL THE FUCKING ALLIANCES AND COALITIONS IN 0.0 IN THIS GAME YOU MOTHERFUCKING PIECE OF SHIT

        ‘THIS HAS BEEN AN ANNOUNCEMENT FROM ALL MOTHERFUCKING SCRUBS FROM HIGH SEC WHO DON’T GIVE A MOTHERFUCKING SHIT ABOUT 0.0 MOTHERFUCKING POLITICS’

        June 2, 2013 at 9:51 pm Reply
        1. Tissue?

          Wild uncontrollable rage best rage.

          June 2, 2013 at 10:54 pm Reply
        2. Low Sec pirate

          what a pathetic scrub…

          June 2, 2013 at 11:35 pm Reply
        3. CCP STFU

          WAIT A MINUTE THERE! JUST ONE SEC…HOLD ON TO YOUR WATER!

          I know you are upset. You feel like the world is spinning out of your control. But please just relax. We can fix this.
          Better? Good! Now go fuck yourself.

          June 3, 2013 at 3:59 am Reply
          1. STFU CCP STFU

            Silly nullbears and their silly sov politics hehe
            Thankfully still enough place for good pvp in eve 😛

            June 3, 2013 at 2:24 pm
  7. I just do not know

    Hmmm, I can see when you started playing, you are missing quite a bit by the way, well when I started playing the Goons were in control of Delve having put BOB to the sword with an impressive act of meta gaming. The renamed BOB were not able to hold and were forced out. At this point the Goons were resting on their past victories and became so fat and complacent that they were unable to even pay their bills (sarc) and dropped sov in a most spectacular fashion, and in came IT Alliance (BOB mak 3) and re-took Delve.

    At this point the Goons were rocking, but there was enough people there to maintain the alliance, at this point the NC started courting them and the Goons were given Deklin by the Tau Ceti alliance (hope I got that name right.) From that point the Goons started their attack on IT, the campaigh was tough, but the tipping point was the blocking of IT Alliance using their supers and Titans by NC. The key battle was a station system PNQY-Y, I was in
    6VDT at the time as one of a group of reinforcements ready to go in, when IT Alliance pulled out and chased back to 6VDT, I managed to exit that system just before the Goons rolled in.
    And this was the key part, the Goons news that this was the IT Alliance and others staging system and they blockaded it, effectively taking a number of allies out of the game, at that point IT Alliance pulled the plug and that was it. To my mind that huge and impressive victory was the making of the CFC…

    June 2, 2013 at 9:06 pm Reply
  8. I just do not know

    Hmmm, I can see when you started playing, you are missing quite a bit by the way, well when I started playing the Goons were in control of Delve having put BOB to the sword with an impressive act of meta gaming. The renamed BOB were not able to hold and were forced out. At this point the Goons were resting on their past victories and became so fat and complacent that they were unable to even pay their bills (sarc) and dropped sov in a most spectacular fashion, and in came IT Alliance (BOB mak 3) and re-took Delve.

    At this point the Goons were rocking, but there was enough people there to maintain the alliance, at this point the NC started courting them and the Goons were given Deklin by the Tau Ceti alliance (hope I got that name right.) From that point the Goons started their attack on IT, the campaigh was tough, but the tipping point was the blocking of IT Alliance using their supers and Titans by NC. The key battle was a station system PNQY-Y, I was in
    6VDT at the time as one of a group of reinforcements ready to go in, when IT Alliance pulled out and chased back to 6VDT, I managed to exit that system just before the Goons rolled in.
    And this was the key part, the Goons news that this was the IT Alliance and others staging system and they blockaded it, effectively taking a number of allies out of the game, at that point IT Alliance pulled the plug and that was it. To my mind that huge and impressive victory was the making of the CFC…

    June 2, 2013 at 9:06 pm Reply
    1. I just do not know

      Damn keyboard, the Goons knew that this was the IT Alliance stating system

      June 2, 2013 at 9:08 pm Reply
      1. I just do not know

        Staging, damn, mis-typing now…, anyway on my little history above of course I am aware that the Goons had to create a new alliance, and I never really found out what actually happened with the sov bill paying event, my feeling at the time was that it was another meta gaming attack, but I never heard for definate, if someone could educate me on this I would appreciate it!

        June 2, 2013 at 9:17 pm Reply
    2. Seraph IX Basarab

      You realize that I left the earlier part of the Goon history out on purpose because it’s been addressed again and again else where right? I mean I even say that in the article.

      June 3, 2013 at 1:47 am Reply
      1. I just do not know

        I actually disagree with your comment about the rise of the CFC being due to the fall of the NC, it really happened with the defeat of IT Alliance and the manner in which they did that.

        June 3, 2013 at 6:41 am Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          But even when IT fell, the Goons were hardly what they were once they got all the tech moons.

          June 3, 2013 at 6:00 pm Reply
      2. Ynglaur

        You didn’t merely leave it out. You expressly stated that it was irrelevant an unimportant. It was the equivalent of saying “You don’t really need to understand the underlying causes or results of WW2 to understand the Cold War.”

        June 3, 2013 at 1:23 pm Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          It’s irrelevant to discuss in my article because it had been addressed so many times before. You’re really picking at something just to complain. I discussed the importance of BoB etc as being more important as part of the mythos and propaganda because i’m looking at the matter through today’s perspective.

          June 3, 2013 at 5:59 pm Reply
          1. Ynglaur

            There’s a big difference between “this has been covered elsewhere” and “To be short and blunt, it wasn’t that amazing. It’s value is due more to
            its myth and propaganda relevance mixed with some sincere, but
            ultimately misplaced nostalgia.”

            June 4, 2013 at 4:14 pm
          2. Seraph IX Basarab

            Well it really wasn’t that amazing. Yeah was cool some guy pulled the plug from the inside…but really so what? The take over of the north by the Goons was much more relevant to their grab on power than anything else.

            June 4, 2013 at 8:02 pm
          3. Ynglaur

            You clearly missed the actual campaigns, as well as the resurgence of BoB in the form of IT, the conquest of Fountain and IT’s final collapse, etc.

            Even your attitude of “some guy pulled the plug from the inside” shows you don’t really have an understanding of what EVE was like at the time. Something on that scale had never been done before, and the Great Betrayal allowed for numerous tactical opportunities during the conquest of Delve.

            I agree that GSF’s ascendance in the North as an economic powerhouse placed them at the top of New Eden, but brushing off their destruction of BoB and IT as an unmentionable prelude is just silly. Do you really think anyone in New Eden would take GSF seriously just because they held a few Tech Moons? No: it was also their history for tenaciously fighting their enemies that gave them that dignitas with other 0.0 powers (see: early fights in Cloud Ring using cycling Ospreys to repair POSes).

            June 4, 2013 at 11:11 pm
  9. Random Poster

    wow, what a mangled and inaccurate history of events. More of the details are wrong then right, and the author either totally fails to understand the strategic situation, or is deliberately trying to distract people from whats really underlying the decisions.

    June 2, 2013 at 9:07 pm Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      Post your corrections.

      June 3, 2013 at 1:47 am Reply
      1. Ynglaur

        Asking someone to re-write your article from scratch is a bit much. In summary, re-write everything where you express an opinion, which includes about 75% of your sentences.

        June 3, 2013 at 1:21 pm Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          Nobody asked for a full article. I asked for some corrections. Can be a few can be a lot. Other people have done well to point out things in the article. I didn’t think writing a small paragraph was so difficult for critics.

          June 3, 2013 at 5:57 pm Reply
  10. x-test grunt

    at least he does not delete posts that are pro goon or negative en24. Seriously the goons sit that cannot stand up to scrutiny is nothing but a propaganda website

    June 2, 2013 at 9:34 pm Reply
  11. Some vet

    Must be PL’s “Sphere” program at work

    June 2, 2013 at 9:42 pm Reply
  12. Some vet

    Must be PL’s “Sphere” program at work

    June 2, 2013 at 9:42 pm Reply
  13. Goon

    “Something stupid like a woman” That’s where I had to stop reading.

    June 2, 2013 at 10:21 pm Reply
    1. Real goon

      Throwing away your alliance because of some interwebz luv storee is pretty fking retarded

      June 3, 2013 at 2:07 am Reply
      1. smallscale dude

        ah the power of love … even virtual love … nothing else to say about that

        June 3, 2013 at 2:18 am Reply
  14. Vaximillian

    Goons got their start from stealing an entire alliance from BoB. Since then they have been known as thieves who would promise to move people out to nullsec and then steal all their possessions to promising entire corps and alliances the world and then taking what they can from them. Propaganda pieces like these come out ever so often when Goons need to recruit more people or EVE players start to see them as the horribly lack of skilled EVE players they are. How did the alliance tournament go last year Goonies? Goons are the gypsies of EVE. Everything they have “accomplished” has been through deception or outright theft. If that is something you think a person can be proud of then okay. But call them what they are.

    June 2, 2013 at 10:50 pm Reply
    1. dd

      The most powerful alliance in game?

      June 2, 2013 at 11:41 pm Reply
      1. Darth Nefarius

        Never underestimate the power of thieves :)

        June 3, 2013 at 5:22 am Reply
  15. GrouchyOldGamer

    That’s ten minutes I won’t get back. As a Goon I have huge respect for NC. in the Tribute campaign, those dudes fought a canny war. However; this line sums up the superficially nature of this piece:

    “Most if not all of the battles not fought over a timer were soundly won by the dotbros.”

    In a Sov war the only battles that count are ones fought over timers, the ones fought elsewhere aren’t part of the Sov campaign and are merely peripheral skirmishes. You’ve written a piece on the Goons with apparently not even a passing understanding of them.

    June 2, 2013 at 11:32 pm Reply
    1. propagoonda

      If you don’t think the ‘goodfights’ matter to the morale of line members you are literally drowning in the koolaid.

      June 3, 2013 at 12:53 am Reply
      1. Duh

        As a line member of GoonWaffe (dont ip ban me riverini) I was in almost every single fleet in EU and US times of the tribute campaign.We won lots of EU fights, we won lots of US fights, we lost lots and came out even on some too. Then, all the timers got pushed into AU which was our weakest tz and a relatively strong and capable one for dotbros. The narrative changed from: ‘not winning fast enough’ to: ok, they are winning but losing every fight- bear in mind these are all AU fights now with dotbros not forming for anything EU or US anymore…meanwhile- dotbros develop the ‘two-front’ war narrative, which looks like a disadvantage on paper but really- Solar Fleet was ncdots greatest ally in that campaign. They get to blueball us on EU timers and go fight an equal-sized and competent force resulting in the elusive ‘goodfights’

        June 3, 2013 at 1:10 am Reply
    2. DubbaYooArr

      Oh god, I never thought it possible for a single entity to flip flop it’s so called beliefs so many times and actually have the propaganda machine to get the line members to believe it.. like seriously, how is it possible?

      Against NCDOT, all that mattered was the Sov, not the good fights.
      TEST/HBC threat arises and all that matters is good fights and grinding sov is boring and meaningless.

      One day its blob out the sun, that’s how Goons roll… the next its bitching about being blobbed by your enemy.

      One night in Delve goons are there for fun and fights and not deployed, the next they are dropping SBUs.

      June 3, 2013 at 4:25 am Reply
      1. GrouchyOldGamer

        Goons haven’t deployed to take Sov. If you want a fight, timers are a good way of getting them. Then again all Delve wars seem to start with fun fights and end up shooting structures.

        June 3, 2013 at 7:28 am Reply
        1. BrackRegion

          In light of the spanking I gave your friends last night in Cloud Ring, and your Führer`s claims that he wants Fountain for lebensraum, do you still maintain such asinine positions?

          Brack Region is the tip of the BBC.

          June 11, 2013 at 12:30 am Reply
  16. CCP STFU

    Pretty pathetic fair.
    I would simply point out that NC. didn’t actually do as well in the north as has been reported here and elsewhere on this site.
    Surely you all understand that NC. didn’t even last as long as -A- did against the Test alliance. Not even nearly as long.
    That is pretty pathetic.

    June 2, 2013 at 11:53 pm Reply
    1. randomdude

      thats why a coalition of 60.000 (if not more) needed more than 2 months to conquer 5 systems in tribute , and you wont lie to me dude i was fcing you at that time now go figure

      June 3, 2013 at 12:03 am Reply
      1. CCP STFU

        And what was -A- up against?
        PL and TEST. And everybody else that wanted a piece.
        And -A- lasted more than twice as long.
        NC. just got stabbed in the ass. End of story.
        Nothing heroic about that.
        Cry some more about it if you want. But it won’t change anything.

        June 3, 2013 at 2:02 am Reply
        1. random duder

          so basicly elo won the war for goons and not goons themself ?!
          thats what your last claim sounds like , im just abit confused here …

          June 3, 2013 at 2:17 am Reply
          1. Father Tim

            Nobody even mentioned elo. Take a deep breath, wipe the tears from your eyes and read this thread again. Maybe your comments will make more sense.
            CCP STFU is correct. NC. got stabbed in the ass…by Goons. Elo had nothing to do with that. He got stabbed in the ass too.
            I hope this helps you. You’ve had to grow up so fast…you’ve weathered storms that would break many. It breaks my heart to see you suffer like this.

            June 3, 2013 at 3:05 am
      2. random skeptic

        Sorry, gonna have to call bullshit on this one. Every FC I flew under during this war is still in Goons. So what did YOU FC? EC-P8R gatecamps?
        Try again. Harder this time.

        June 3, 2013 at 2:12 am Reply
        1. randomdude

          you have pets … ermmm allies i head … try harder dude.harder next time

          June 3, 2013 at 2:15 am Reply
          1. random skeptic

            Sorry, still bullshit. No one who is remotely familiar with Goon culture, even peripherally , would use the term “pets” to describe their kin.

            Your message is a little hard to decipher.
            Should “ermmm allies i head” read “ermmm allies i gave head”?

            June 3, 2013 at 3:40 am
          2. randomdude

            misspelling .. hear=heard .
            so am i trolling, or did you just realise how big and anonymous your blob is ?
            oh and ofc pets wouldnt call themself pets , i agree on that but i couldnt be fooled at the time and im certainly not beeing fooled now , goons have pets period. every biger bloc does , the just call them “allies” , “friends” or “bros” (or similar) (ask razor how they called their pets in the onc)

            June 3, 2013 at 8:31 am
          3. CCP STFU

            Calm down! Come on, this is just friendly banter.
            I’m not a Goon, so I’m not the one who raped you.
            I didn’t say anything about what Goons and friends call themselves.
            I said that no one familiar with them would refer to their kin as “pets”.

            Whenever you hear someone here, or anywhere else, refer to someone in the CFC as a pet, you are either listening to someone of Old BoB, or someone who’s read these forums too much and integrated that kind of language into their own vocabulary.

            They don’t rent space (except during scam drives). They always come to the defense of their coalition members when their sov is under attack.
            These are the biggest differences between pets and allies in the EVE universe. BoB and ALL of their offspring rented space out to other alliances who were expected to come to the aid of BoB. But when the renters themselves came under attack, BoB did nothing to save them from being kicked out of the space that BoB expected to be paid for. This is the biggest reason that BoB is gone, and why their remnant are universally despised.

            June 3, 2013 at 2:55 pm
          4. randomdude

            what you described is the difference between renter (pay to hold sov (or mostly pay to carebaer)) wich is refered as the “techmoons of the south” way , and the pets who are usually smaller than the master aliance , the pet is a devote aliance wich is receiving comands from the masteraliance, this model is as dead as the renting modell …. not at all .
            and finaly you have allies , allies or partner aliances are usualy on the same level of organisation and military power , neither of them can and will dictate anything to the other one those are the most fragile relations between groups (because if you dont like what the other ones do/demand youll play alone / look for new partner)
            to give some examples : nulli and nc. are partner , tribe is a pet to test , honeybadger (the aliance) is (or was ?) a renter to test (to keep goons out of this)

            oh and to react on the bob comment … onc didnt save their pets and renter either ,wich cost them their space too , and i dare saying most that have had renter or pets or both didnt defend them as hard as they could have .

            June 3, 2013 at 6:27 pm
    2. lol

      NC. dunked at least 4 fleets a day for months versus Goons.

      I mean, it was NC./BL/Nulli which was maybe 4,000 people versus 60,000 Goons and the entire DRF.

      Then Goons just started blueballing and hitting structures with 2,000 guys so people stopped caring.

      June 3, 2013 at 1:28 am Reply
      1. CCP STFU

        “NC. dunked at least 4 fleets a day for months versus Goons.”
        Goons dunked your entire coalition.
        Guess that doesn’t matter when you have to explain to your friends why you got your pant’s pulled down in front of everyone and could do nothing about it.

        June 3, 2013 at 2:05 am Reply
        1. lostinspace

          CFC Dunked nice try tho goony

          June 3, 2013 at 9:17 am Reply
      2. DubbaYooArr

        True, and BL continues the tradition while NCDOT took up the old ‘can’t beat em, join em’ motto and is now fighting side by side with Goons.. hmph

        June 3, 2013 at 4:18 am Reply
      3. wat

        >I mean, it was NC./BL/Nulli which was maybe 4,000 people versus 60,000 Goons and the entire DRF.

        I suggest you clarify what DRF was before putting “NC./BL/Nulli” and “DRF” in one timeline.

        June 3, 2013 at 11:27 am Reply
    3. slo

      U sound mad bro it took 1 month for the cfc to take just 1 system. And the only reason the cfc won was through blue balling after shooting a bunch of structures and not through pvp.You couldn’t take them on in a fight.

      June 3, 2013 at 5:15 am Reply
      1. CCP STFU

        Let me see if I have this straight. The CFC…won…by blue balling?

        So you are saying that after the Goons were done with NC., their balls hurt so bad (is this true?), that they had to emergency evac all of their remaining possessions and get the hell out of Dodge.

        If the Goons were blue balling, then how did all of these supposed fights occur in which the NC. were slaughtering Goons with kill ratios of ten, one hundred, hell even one hundred million billion gillion to one?

        June 3, 2013 at 5:39 am Reply
  17. bitter vet dot

    lets just say i hate goons :) i mean they dind really win vs BoB , after this IT comes and they somehow dont pay the bill for sov ( thats funny because IT was kicking ass) after this comes Mittani who did a very good job serios and he deserve all the credit managing the hordes of sheep and thats all folks ,

    eve now its a lot of politics and less the fights that we all love

    June 3, 2013 at 1:28 am Reply
    1. Fartolio

      Sadly 90% of the old bitter vets love a WIN button more than the fights. Rest of 10% is quiet, and do fight.

      June 3, 2013 at 5:57 am Reply
      1. bitter vet dot

        just my luck i am one of those 10% because i dont have a super

        June 3, 2013 at 6:00 pm Reply
  18. Ashesofempires

    Some clarifications:

    PL did not sign a truce to get their supers out of VFK. They snuck them out. CFC did not conquer the DRF. They rolled over the crumbling remnants of White Noise, then alienated Raiden. with the OTEC agreement, which pulled NC. and PL. out of the fight. Raiden called it quits and moved to the thunderdome alongside MM and Razor.

    When the Goons fought with Dotbros. They did lose a considerable number of fleet fights. This was largely due to Dotbros.’ setting timers to come out in Aussie primetime, where they had something closer to parity in numbers. There were more than a few battles where Goons got dunked and were forced to regrind a timer. On the whole though, Goons did complete their strategic objectives, at the cost of some pretty horrible tactical losses (massacres, really).

    Dotbros. never really had a chance to hold onto Tribute, though. There wasn’t any intention of holding on, only making the CFC bleed for a while. At no point in the Dotbros. defense of Tribute was there ever any attempt to reclaim lost space (because they would have had to deal with timers placed squarely in USTZ, in which CFC has their strongest presence) and they did not have the USTZ numbers to win a fight.

    Goonswarm’s strong point has always been its community, which is much more united than most EVE alliances’, its Diplomatic ability, and their spy network, which is impressive. Most of Goonswarm’s victories were diplomatic, rather than military. They divided Team Tech with OTEC, cut a deal with the russians during the fall of the north, and pulled divided the HBC by using PL’s technetium addiction in order to keep TEST from rallying against them.

    June 3, 2013 at 9:22 am Reply
    1. smallscale dude

      i agree with most of what you said , but i actualy think that raiden left the “thunderdome” delve to save wn/ their own space . dont get mad bro it doesnt really change what you said its just a detail for those who care

      June 3, 2013 at 9:57 am Reply
      1. dutch2005

        we (Raiden.) did try to save WN. from losing their space..

        then WN. leader barely showed up, and ofc that fiasco of droppping a new station and dumping all ships and stuff in a 0.0 conquerable station!!! *DERP*

        June 3, 2013 at 5:18 pm Reply
      2. Ashesofempires

        You’re probably right, but either way Goonswarm was getting slaughtered by Team Tech until OTEC and the supercapital nerfs. Whether this was a strategic plan to influence CCP on the nerf is up for debate.

        June 3, 2013 at 6:11 pm Reply
    2. old timer

      pretty accurate . could also add that GSF had a good relationship with red alliance and xdeathx since the time they were fighting BoB together, wich made it easy to cut the deal you are reffering to.

      and also , OTEC was a genuine brillant idea in order to control the dotbros, by controlling their main incomes. i saw NCdot obeing to Mr Vee ( goon fc ) when asked ( more like yelled at, infact ) to get the fuck out of a fight with black legion concerning a few tech moons in venal… bout 6 months before the tribute war.

      June 4, 2013 at 4:30 pm Reply
  19. Cock Gobblers

    PL,N3 all too busy sucking CFC cock to see that if they teamed up with TEST they could get rid of the CFC claim the new riches and have some fun doing so.

    June 3, 2013 at 4:32 pm Reply
  20. indy

    good article

    June 3, 2013 at 6:05 pm Reply
  21. CyberSarge

    Yeah I was there when the ONC fell and watch the larger alliances flee PB, Fade, and Cloud Ring. Goons picked us up, dusted us off, and offered a partnership. All those fights were fun, even that trench warfare in tribute. Yes it left a of players drained, but when they saw that Vale was low hanging fruit, well that was enough.

    June 3, 2013 at 10:42 pm Reply
  22. The Silent BACKHAND !

    Is it just me or does it not seem that both shaboo and mittins played the HBC like a fiddle. As much as I hate the content cowards. I to have to allow time for a slow clap. You all may be little girls. But girls are smarter then boys I guess.

    June 4, 2013 at 2:47 am Reply
  23. Ex CfC member

    “CFC fleet numbers had begun to dwindled even before the fall of UMI and it would have been unlikely that with skilled diplomacy, the dotbros would not have been able to at least hold part of their territory.”
    I am not sure how much the Dotbros knew about this. The war was almost over. There was talk of allowing the Dotbros to hold Gem due to alot of the CfC allies having significant burnout. The war in Tribute came at a very bad time just after 3-4 major wars which drained the CfC membership. There was significant disent within the CfC and its allies. The possibility of not being able to fieldeven one whole fleet loomed large on the horizon. DBRB with his rants of ani-semetisim and racial hatred caused many Euro’s to flatly refuse to enter a fleet with him. Even my own corp was told that they didnt have to fly in his fleets due to it.
    I would have given the CfC 3 weeks or less before they sued for peace due to lack of numbers.
    It so happened that the arguement over a Falcon (or whatever) happened just at the time when certain entities were considering backing off from the campaign due to their members flatly refusing to fight or doing a giant logofski.
    Mittens won the meta game by stiring up bad feeling. Without it the CfC could have either lost the war or entered into a stalemate where it just didnt have the numbers to invade Gem.
    Also it must be said the deal with Ev0ke also helped as they didnt have to grind all that space so the war was won and history writes itself from what you see now.

    June 5, 2013 at 12:19 pm Reply
    1. Deaf to GSF

      fuck goonsarm, if we never poke the hive how the fuck can we get the honey!!! mmmmmmh dat truesec

      June 6, 2013 at 5:48 am Reply
  24. Riverini don't delete

    Just FYI, GSF never promised to defend the old NC.

    June 6, 2013 at 3:30 pm Reply
  25. TESTbro

    Please get over the HBC CFC war THAT NEVER HAPPENED GOD DAM IT

    June 12, 2013 at 11:34 pm Reply
  26. Noisrevbus

    It’s always nice when people write historical pieces (since the game thrive on them). It’s a shame that you set the approach far too late in time though, especially since you decided to chronicle such a rich background, with ample access to material (from public wiki to old fanfest presentations on youtube etc.).

    People wanting to be factual would point out that the GS rise to prominence did not come against “PL and their russian allies” but years before with “PL and russian allies” (and le french). Arguably, the RSF was the rise to prominence. At the very least that is what changed the general reputation of the Swarm from alot of new players in small ships having fun to a large alliance that strategically utilize cost-effective ships to achieve objectives.

    I’m not pointing this out twist arms or claim this is the sole defining factor, but rather that leaving some of those defining moments out makes the article weaker – especially when you follow up with some sort of analysis – since it helps to explain the relationship of many of the alliances that persist today. Few people seem to remember that GS and PL literally “grew up together” as political entities (yet not as entitites). Remembering some of those things can be quite useful when people start pointing fingers and attributing things to the alliances or the reputations today.

    June 13, 2013 at 12:46 pm Reply

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