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oddiseey

For those that haven’t heard, Odyssey will usher in a change to the mineral composition of high end ores. These are the ABC ores (Arkonor, Bistot and Crokite) as well as the midrange ores Dark Ochre, Gneiss and Spodumain. You can read the whys and wherefores here and you can get the actual numbers here. Please take a moment and review them now.

So first off, putting all game concerns aside, I personally like these changes. It’s a real pain in the ass right now to gather the appropriate resources for what I’m currently manufacturing. For instance, I’ve been making ammo for corporation use running anomalies. That’s one less thing to have to haul to deadly unknown space. Taking medium hybrid antimatter as an example, I need 404 Tritanium, 375 Pyerite and 6 Mexallon for one batch of 100 rounds. This change will make it much easier on me.

How’s that you ask? Well, as a miner in Anoikis I have two choices. I can mine for profit, which means go for the ABCs. Or, I can mine for production. That means go for Veldspar and Scordite because I need a lot of Tritanium and Pyerite to make Tech 1 ammo. After this change I can do both at the same time. The only non-ABC ore I’ll have to worry about is Gneiss so I can get my Mexallon. At only 6 units per batch, one ore hold full of Gneiss will set me up for a long time and I’ll still make some ISK. So as you can see, making things and making ISK at the same time is far more preferable than having to choose between one or the other. Anoikis carebear life just became that much less of a hassle and I know that’ll translate fairly straight across to null-sec carebear life.

Now onto the meta-game ramifications of this change. There are several industry affecting changes happening in Odyssey that separately don’t make much sense. To make sense of them I needed to think not only about everything CCP is doing in Odyssey, but about their vision for the next decade of Eve Online. When viewed in that framework I see astute reasoning involved.

It was said by one blogger I read that these changes will end the “greater rewards for greater risk” philosophy CCP has had for a long time. I don’t see it that way. The rewards are still there. They haven’t taken any minerals away from these ores. I will still make the same profit for the same risk. But I am in Anoikis where everyone scans routinely and whether it’s a gravimetric site or an anomaly makes no difference. I just won’t have to give up profit for production’s sake. The risk may increase in high-sec and low and more on that in a bit.

The locations these high-end ores occur in hasn’t changed either. They are still a very long way from the high-sec market hubs. Some other bloggers I’ve read have worried this will cause the market to collapse. It isn’t going to happen. There is not enough ISK in New Eden to make me want to haul an Orca’s worth of Tritanium to high-sec to sell it. These extra minerals are not likely to saturate the markets of New Eden. Even if they did, the inundation will be met with increased demand when CCP unleashes Dust 514 item manufacturing. That is coming. CCP said so during Fanfest. It is only the timing of it that is in question.

There is only one thing “worse” than hauling Tritanium to the market. That’s hauling railguns from the hubs back to the POS. There will no longer be a need to haul Tritanium out of high-sec once these changes go into effect. In that light, these changes actually shift Tritanium out of the hubs having an overall lowering effect on market availability in high-sec. It could break either way.

Now let’s throw the next piece of the puzzle onto the table. Outposts are getting a major manufacturing boost. For the first time in the history of New Eden, a null-sec carebear should be able to mine and manufacture in a single system – or constellation at the most.

That will probably lead to a loss of population in high-sec. As many have pointed out, one of the safest places to mine is alliance null-sec. It is arguably safer than high-sec. I know several people who mine in null-sec. They can attest that there is nothing safer than deep null-sec when intelligence channels are well run and miners have ample warning to bug out. And to a person, all these acquaintances have multiple alts in high-sec to mine low-end minerals, manufacture railguns and haul them back to null-sec. There are many small high-sec corporations that are nothing but a single person’s carebear alts. I know this is a fact because I know the real people. After Odyssey, they will no longer need these alts in high-sec nearly so much. They can all move to null-sec and become rich while also maintaining their manufacturing lines – in null-sec. That is a big part of what I believe CCP wants but more on that in a bit.

If we see the above population shift as more likely than not, it brings the gravimetric sites moving to anomalies, and why CCP did that, into perspective. Yes, it may make high-sec and mining riskier. I don’t think it’ll do squat to the rick in low-sec. Like Anoikis, low-sec is routinely scanned and since they know you’re in local… yeah, same risk as always. But, if all the alts leave high-sec for the now greener pastures of null-sec, who does that leave in high-sec? No, it isn’t the gankers I’m talking about though they will likely remain. It’s the new bros I’m thinking about. And I don’t mean the new bros playing today. I mean the new bros who are going to sign up in the future.

Think of it this way: the new, beautiful scanner isn’t for us old timers. Those man hours were invested for future players. It improves the new player experience. It’s more intuitive. When I first started playing I expected to see scan results on the HUD and was flummoxed by the list I actually got. Do you know it was over six (6!) months before I even learned there were gravimetric sites in New Eden? I read lots and lots and lots of stuff about how to play Eve Online, and I never came across that juicy tidbit. After Odyssey, that will not happen to new bros.

You see, noobs really only need two things: time to learn and a way to make ISK. However, there is something else that’s needed to meet one of those requirements. A noob can’t make ISK if he has no idea where to start. Moving gravimetric sites into anomalies that are detectable by the pretty and easy to understand new scanner should do that. To my way of thinking, that’s worth a little more risk. I know I’d have welcomed it when I was a noob.

***

As this is already pretty much a wall of text, I have split my thoughts into two parts. Part two will be my next post. In it I will look at more reasons for these changes, and why they are critical to the future of Eve Online.

Fly Careful

– Mabrick

He’s been around the block a time or five. With over 15 years of MMO playing under his belt and a memory that reaches back to pencils and dice, he offers his insights into the not so virtual reality we call Eve Online.

59 Comments

  1. Old IRC Grunt

    Good post bro

    May 1, 2013 at 4:09 pm Reply
    1. Aragorn

      Indeed, more like this pls!

      May 2, 2013 at 7:59 am Reply
  2. Azzadinga

    I haven't read the Dev blog but was under the impression that grav sites, ladar, radar, wormholes and Npc sites (annomalies) would show as sigs on the HUD to be probed. The Npc dens/nests would show on HUD without probing same as if you did a system scan.

    May 1, 2013 at 4:26 pm Reply
    1. noob

      Mining sites will be warpable with just a system scan. I believe the other sites still will need to be probed down.

      May 1, 2013 at 5:03 pm Reply
  3. Ynglaur

    Good point re: the new scanner helping newbies.

    May 1, 2013 at 4:27 pm Reply
  4. Slothen

    If you were giving up profit for production's sake.. why were you producing at all? Ammo to run anomalies? You know you can load haulers with ammo and fit them in a carrier, right?

    May 1, 2013 at 4:38 pm Reply
    1. william

      some people hate hauling or jumping anything

      there is a very real separation between the players that are comfortable jumping from high to 00 and the players that do not have the ships or accounts to man a cyno chain or just the competence or comfort level to do that.

      i know several people on both sides of the fence. some that jump 10 to 20 jump freighter loads a month and some that have never jumped a carrier that they have owned for 6 months.

      May 1, 2013 at 5:11 pm Reply
      1. rkanon

        Well that just defeats the purpose of even having a jump capable ship…that's too bad.

        May 1, 2013 at 9:54 pm Reply
    2. Deth Dekanara

      You know he's in wormhole space, right? Jumping a supply carrier into a wormhole isn't a solution.

      May 2, 2013 at 3:09 am Reply
  5. #YOLO

    wow you sound like a normal sane human when write on subjects you actually know about

    May 1, 2013 at 4:46 pm Reply
    1. JAWZ

      go back to le reddit

      May 1, 2013 at 9:13 pm Reply
  6. DarthNefarius

    It'll be interesting to see how much the drop in ore prices will affect noobs incomes. It'll be a net negitive unsure though if it'll be significant hit though.

    May 1, 2013 at 4:48 pm Reply
    1. Actually its a boost, new players overall run missions for their early days ISK. Cheaper materials mean cheaper ships which means easier to get into level 2 and 3 missions. ISK is frequently the limiting factor for new players and has been that way since the artificial cap was removed (NPC shuttles) due to the high ship prices we now have.

      May 1, 2013 at 6:14 pm Reply
    2. Johny Blue

      Because the dreaded AFK cloaker bullshit is so balanced when you can get a hotdrop of basicly anything on your head any moment.
      Dont tell me to use my scanner and shit like in WH space, you cant cyno your friends there so its completely different.
      You can come with your cloaky shit, im up for a fight anytime even in my carebear ships, but you really think those cloakers are there for a somewhat fair fight?….

      AFK cloakers are worse than full-time nullbears or even high-sec gankers, zero risk, 100% reward, add the increased black ops range to this and MJD, its already close to impossible catch them.
      This plague slowly killing EVE, you already rarely see any roaming gangs to fight with, who needs a normal gang with normal risk when you can have afk cloaker+hotdrop?

      Also, one single cloaker noob premamently locking a whole system with his presence (because you can never know when he drops 20+ black ops/bombers/whatever on you) is completely acceptable game mechanic i guess..
      Dont even know how CCP not changed this shit already, add fuel for cloak, make it possible to find cloakers somehow so its not risk-free retarded afk crap or whatever do it, but currently its just game-killing.

      May 2, 2013 at 8:07 am Reply
      1. Kalevala

        I see, and Titan-dropping hundreds of people onto a 5-man gatecamp or roaming gang is not? You surely have interesting ways of thinking. How about moving around, how about always changing systems on a daily basis in 00 to avoid being detected that easily? It's not that hard these days with all the thousands of station systems around. EVE is not about becoming lazy, EVE is about adaption.

        The BLOPS drops you moan about are only a necessary evolutionary step to avoid getting dropped by the aforementioned Titan drops. You firstly must get rid of these before you can expect people to step away from BLOPS and return more frequently to normal roams. It is absolutely no fun to roam around in certain areas, always waiting for the drop of the unskilled.

        Whine about that, or actually do something about that – then maybe BLOPS will be reduced.

        May 2, 2013 at 9:08 am Reply
      2. Electra Deathblow

        U do know its EVE not WOW, if u can't stand the heat leave :)

        May 2, 2013 at 9:10 am Reply
      3. grunt

        I'm guessing you live in provi couse rest of 0.0 doesn't have problem with BS hot drops since most of the mining system are to deep for it in 0.0 or BS get spotted very fast

        May 2, 2013 at 11:02 am Reply
      4. See for yourself

        You see some D-bag in local, why not just go somewhere else? Log off for a bit, if he's not around when you come back, leave. Why not have friends in combat ships hang around, or be ready with an alt. Get a decent pilot with an assault frig logged off in system and waiting. You know actually have some reaction, some show of force maybe?

        People do dirt bag things all the time in eve. What I've found is that most people just take it. I don't, when people fuck with me, I fuck with them back. When you hunt the hunters, you'd be surprised how little effort it takes to make an impression. He's not there for a fight, he's there for easy kills. If you kill him, or get him killed, his incentive to fuck with you is gone.

        May 2, 2013 at 12:37 pm Reply
        1. SG Goonslap

          So very true. I am a hunter of hunters. I am the one that spends many hours shadowing their movements, scanning down their safes and watching their routine with cloaky alts, finding out who their loot alts are, etc. Then I plan and set up my effective ambush. I am always a little suprized at how easily they fall for it or how easy it is to take them out, the only real challenge, if you could call it that, is catching them. Most gankers are quite lazy and easy to catch off guard especially if they have been allowed to get away with the same routine for a little while, often they just say fuck this and move somewhere else. I kind of look at them as my loot collectors, they go to all the work ganking, collecting loot and taking the security hit, then I take it from them… legally :). Ganker hunting can be lucrative not to mention satisfying.

          May 2, 2013 at 6:04 pm Reply
          1. Bruno

            good post. I did this, too. Though it is very ineffective and you can not do any mistake which spooks him, because then, he will jsut stay afk, when he sees you. The guy, who is afk or bot has always an advantage, because he determins the time, when he wants to act. I was never mad about the current cloaking in long run. Yes, it is sometimes annoying. if a guy camps a good system or if bots warp all the time to cloak. Other times it is very helpful. I love to fly cloaky ships. industrials, who can not go in a different system, are often renters/slave workers, who deserve it.

            May 3, 2013 at 1:08 pm
          2. I just do not know

            You two guys have my respect, I do the same, its fun hunting them, I have had some great kills in the past doing this

            May 3, 2013 at 3:11 pm
      5. Snorkle25

        First off, these players aren't afk. If they were afk no one would be bitching.

        Second, 'afk' cloaking is the player reaction to the I effectiveness of all cloaking systems in general and the covert ops system in particular. How, you might ask, are these systems ineffective when they prevent you from being scanned down? They are intended to conceal your presence yet everyone knows your there as soon as you jump gate. What just jumped in? Where they in a recon or conventional? No one cares anymore, there already docking up. And don't give me crap about fair fights because you guys only want to blob yourselves. If it isn't 60-20 in your favor, you never leave system.

        It's odd that you would bitch about fair fights when the black ops ships (any ship that fits a cov ops cloak) aren't even designed for conventional fights. With the exception of the strategic cruisers and the Widow, you just can't tank anything long enough to fight conventionally. Additionally conventional ships, even before the teiricide, fitted more tank and better gank. (Geddon vs Deemer anyone?). Not to mention that conventional has logi such is crucial for any non-gank fleet on fleet fights. Don't bring up the Etna because there is way too few of them and not enough availability for BLOP gang to use them.

        So yes we sit there watching and waiting for a target, and yes we do want to kill you and no it won't be a fair fight. But it's also not as easy as you think. Days of hunting and waiting on multiple accounts in multiple systems goes into each and every kill. And at that cost of time investment we aren't looking for just any kill, nor can we just engage any damn target. BLOP fleets are very easy to welp when done wrong and can be very expensive fleets to welp as well.

        TLDR: Quit your bitching and HTFU, AFK station dockers are OP.

        May 2, 2013 at 4:05 pm Reply
    3. dreamer.

      I still remember when Trit was below 3 isk now its above 6 ….

      even if it takes a dip (it will) i doubt it will reach its low at 3 isk

      and what i remembered from that time was that there still was ppl mining ….

      May 2, 2013 at 3:56 pm Reply
      1. I more vet than you

        Trit was even under 1 ISK until they stopped the Trit exploit and the transport mission bots in low sec.

        May 3, 2013 at 1:00 pm Reply
  7. Lost Provi Minner

    Deep alliance null, what is that? Seriously one of a Provi miners defense was that they had to be scanned down in a anom. Industry null buff is sweet now I can crack and sell directly without even leaving the region. On that note I am looking toward to the changes. More fights in Provi for sure.

    May 1, 2013 at 5:28 pm Reply
    1. DarthNefarius

      Deep allince NULL is where the NULL carebears mine safer then HI seccers do. The only thing they fear is the dreaded AFK cloaker which still makes them scream in the forums for a NERF

      May 1, 2013 at 6:40 pm Reply
      1. DarthNeedALife

        I'm with stupid ^^^

        May 2, 2013 at 11:50 pm Reply
    2. EVE_Dude

      How is that a defense? A neut can come into your systems, probe down all the grav sites, then come back a few hours later in a combat ship. With belts, you gotta visit and/or dscan every one, there will only be 1-3 grav sites in any given system.

      May 3, 2013 at 10:51 pm Reply
  8. To be fair I think there is very little chance of highsec carebears moving to nullsec, its perception based rather than feasibility. Also if you're a carebear in nullsec there is always someone looking to tax your profits in some way or another.

    The change will most likely be slight highsec mining nerf, more people spending time to do highsec ice mining due to increased value. New players will benefit from lower ship prices whilst running missions and traning for mining ships.

    Overall its a great change, cheaper ships means more combat and lower pvp risk meaning greater involvement and more fun for everyone involved.

    May 1, 2013 at 6:18 pm Reply
    1. Shattershark

      ATM highsec exports a lot of low-end minerals. If there are enough miners in 0.0 to reduce the need for imports, then highsec ores are in for a great decrease in profitability.

      May 1, 2013 at 8:25 pm Reply
      1. suspect bystander

        When i was in 0.0, i exported low ends to high sec as the local market was 50% of empire

        May 6, 2013 at 9:26 pm Reply
        1. Shattershark

          Because there is no point in buying few percent of materials locally and then bring the rest (or even finished goods) from Jita.

          May 7, 2013 at 9:25 am Reply
    2. ccp

      The whole point is to move carebears to null sec

      May 1, 2013 at 8:41 pm Reply
    3. guest

      Highsec carebear will remain in highsec.

      Nullbear currently in highsec will move back to null.

      May 1, 2013 at 10:20 pm Reply
  9. Inmei T'ko

    My advice? Stockpile ice now.

    May 1, 2013 at 6:35 pm Reply
    1. Anon

      Dont forget the ice products aswell, like isotopes…

      May 2, 2013 at 8:57 am Reply
      1. I just do not know

        I am ice mining my ass off!!!!

        May 3, 2013 at 3:29 pm Reply
  10. The Mittani

    I suck cocks with my butt.

    May 1, 2013 at 7:08 pm Reply
  11. WWW

    "I am a miner in deadly unknown space."

    You sir, disgust me. A blight upon wormhole space.

    May 1, 2013 at 7:24 pm Reply
  12. Alexander Poepkorst

    "There are many small high-sec corporations that are nothing but a single person’s carebear alts. I know this is a fact because I know the real people."

    This guy is a outright fucking genius…who who have thought of alts in alt corps?

    May 1, 2013 at 7:48 pm Reply
  13. Shattershark

    "They can all move to null-sec and become rich while also maintaining their manufacturing lines – in null-sec."

    Big mistake. If most miners will move to 0.0 to mine newly buffed ores, then prices won't remain at their current level. Demand remains more or less constant, CCP increases supply – can you guess what would happen?

    May 1, 2013 at 8:14 pm Reply
    1. 123

      Maybe that's their plan, too much inflation is bad for anyone business…

      May 1, 2013 at 9:14 pm Reply
  14. The Observer

    One thing I am worried about is the likely price hike in POS fuel. Sure, the belts will still be in the same system and will refresh every 4 hours, but the 'on-demand' supply will likely drop. That is supplied by the AFK ice miners that sit in an over tanked Mackinaw or Retriever and check their cargo hold every hour or so. I may be missing critical info, like how much ice will be in these anomalies and how many anomalies will spawn in system (hopefully more than 1), but this does worry me slightly. Not enough to stockpile some oxy-topes, but still….

    May 1, 2013 at 8:14 pm Reply
  15. snorkle25

    Mining for profit and mining for industry should be (are) the safe thing!! Why are you making instead of buying your ammo? Because its cheaper (saving $ is the same as making money). Not to mention that ratting in null will net you more isk than mining ever will. Per account that is.

    May 1, 2013 at 11:24 pm Reply
  16. JohnDrees

    Very solid thought process. You should write one about what makes you so much better than greedy goblin.

    May 2, 2013 at 12:40 am Reply
    1. Jumpy Jack

      There are Brazilian tribes undiscovered by the modern world that have a better grasp on eve than greedy goblin.

      May 2, 2013 at 10:46 am Reply
      1. Bruno

        good one, though I dont agree. ;-P

        May 3, 2013 at 1:09 pm Reply
  17. Wondering

    I have yet to read the PURPOSE of why the grav sites no longer need to be probes out. Noobs had lots of asteroid belts to mine in the past, Those in game that were willing to train extra skills, spend time scanning over many systems, then move their mining ships to the grav sites locations could then be rewarded with extra isk or minerals normally not found in hi sec. That's reward for work done, now its no work and easy rewards, way to go CCP.

    If any one has a idea of what the purpose of the change is I would like to know.

    May 2, 2013 at 8:39 am Reply
  18. CCP

    CCP are unhappy about the complete care bear attitude some player have. We will there for make these changes and whatever further changes are necessary to move care bears to null sec and get them PvPing.

    May 2, 2013 at 9:44 am Reply
  19. Bob_the_Bitcher

    One thing – Null should not be the end-game. By your argument Null will be that.

    May 2, 2013 at 12:05 pm Reply
    1. sreggin wej

      CCP disagree on that.

      May 2, 2013 at 12:12 pm Reply
    2. dreamer.

      I agree Null shouldn't be the end-game

      Eve doesn't have a endgame.

      I think CCP wants nullsec to be more target rich
      I think CCP wants nullsec industry to be a backbone (right now) you must be mad to build other then supers in nullsec. and most of the nullsec supers are built by moving Thanys filled with guns to nullsec to then be refined and used in supercap prod.

      Stop wining the Mining changes are good for the game.
      the Ice changes on the other hand will be bad.
      lets see it from a nullsec perspective.

      the ice is spread in nullsec to its natural borders
      80% of the need of ice is found in highsec.
      20% will be troublesome
      Caldari towers are beeing used as mining towers and need caldari fuelblocks.

      what do you think will happen when 1/4 of the map got easy access to
      caldari ice while other 3/4 will not ….

      May 2, 2013 at 4:04 pm Reply
      1. dreamer.

        im expecting a shit storm of dead ventures in Venal …. *just saying*
        once the changes comes they will start to swarm npc nullsec for the ice.

        May 2, 2013 at 4:06 pm Reply
  20. droljica

    Why should any highsec player, miner, missioner, trader, etc… move to null, because ccp wants it. I dont think so.

    Game is dying slowly and people don't wanna change their game habits only because "some tard had a blast".

    May 2, 2013 at 1:17 pm Reply
  21. Fartolio

    I just laugh, because this will hit a lot of hisec market bears and make them loose a lot of isk.

    May 2, 2013 at 1:48 pm Reply
  22. orly?

    I see this all as very good overall, though sure there are some who'll lose out a little bit. The short-term losers for the most part are the sort who'll recover quickly and be back in the ISK again in no time.

    I really do not see the miner's security as compromised. I always assume the grav sites in a system are fully scanned by every neutral player in the game; it's just the safest way to fly. I've seen plenty of times where a guy'd come into system, scan down sites and then leave. 3 hours later a number of fast tacklers logs into system, splits up to belts and tries to get a tackle. The reality is they were there the whole time – probably logged off the night before.

    May 2, 2013 at 2:24 pm Reply
  23. death to bots

    you dont know shit about trading or anything about the trit market. ccp is helping the null sec carebears an kicking some of us high sec carebears in the nuts .in the last 5 days trit went from buying 5.55 to 5.05 . now you null sec guys got trit an pyr right in your own back yards an wont have to come to high sec to get it

    May 2, 2013 at 6:02 pm Reply
  24. stoppedplaying

    I've always said making highsec safer for noobs and give them easier ways to get started will be the key to Eve's longetivity. Once they're skilled and cashed up, "out there" will be the place to aspire to.

    Forget the "this is Eve" and "HTFU" manifesto about HS safety touted by people interested only in their own piece of Eve, consider that the status quo will eventually become "that was Eve" as long as we continue to listen to these null holders and so-called bittervet experts. CCP is very aware of the big picture and we should all be mindful of what they need to do to ensure that longevity.

    Noobs and even current HS players DO need something to branch out to, however isk potential and a fancy outpost are not compelling enough reasons because 0.0 space is still held by morons who think they own the joint and "know what's best for you".

    Even with these changes, noobs and anyone daring to venture forth will continue to get chewed up and spat out. The way of the bittervet and null monopolies must end first. Everything else is just pissing in the wind until that happens.

    May 3, 2013 at 11:09 pm Reply
  25. 86er

    I can Confirm that Mabrick's memory goes back to pencils and dice! I was there with him! :-)

    May 9, 2013 at 4:55 am Reply

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