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“Eve is dying.”

It’s heard so much it’s become a sub-meme of the Eve-O forums. Like so many other things, if you mix nine parts of respectability with one part outrage, you have a the secret sauce of creating a delicious threadnaught. I’m writing this as a partial riposte to Mabrick’s recent blog. He’s got some things right, and other’s laughably myopic and dripping with salty-sweet teary-bleary-eyed deliciousness.

So I’ll start off with where Mabrick is wrong. And then cover where he’s right. Without all the tears and bear-goggles.

Eve is not dying. CCP is making plenty of money, with more on the way.

So to support the argument that “Eve is dying”, Mabrick goes and digs up articles on third party gaming media written, in some cases, more than three years ago. Okay. Things have changed quite a bit in just the last six months. Let alone three years ago. (For the better I might add.) The quotes he published make some good points, but it’s not proof that Eve is dying. Having financial statements with CCP’s letterhead on them showing CCP so deep in the red that it looks like a soggy cracker sinking in tomato soup? That would be proof that Eve, is in fact, dying. Because a handful of game reviewers and the odd forum poster quit Eve because “It’s too hard.”, “My 150 kiloton warship isn’t fast enough.”, and “People are assholes” does not constitute or warrant the conclusion that “Eve is dying.”.

Does Eve Online have issues in the “New Player Experience” department?

Most definitely. Absolutely. Yes.

And it’s here that Eve could really use some polish on the boots and a bit of Brasso on the buttons. CCP markets But delivers I won’t say that it’s false advertisement. But little colored squares and spreadsheets are not going to carry Eve Online for the next ten years. The only reason I know what my ship looks like is because it’s right there in the middle of the fitting window. When it comes to actually playing the game, it’s irrelevant. It’s all squares and brackets and spreadsheets and terribly obtuse windows and sub windows and certification planners that are totally pointless and only serve to make something more complex than it really needs to be.

Not terribly compelling. Or immersive for a new player. It’s here that Eve could actually stand to have a little themepark injected, some cut-scenes, major NPC character development. Perhaps some epic arcs that have some decent voice overs? Nobody reads mission flavor text. You look at the ISK payout, relevant goals, and hit “accept”. CCP can do better here. Better tutorials, better explanation of how the game actually works, and an easing of the learning cliff. The new Eve player is more than likely to be someone coming from another MMO. They are used to things like mining as a side-job to make money so they can do the “fun stuff”. In Eve, mining is a time-consuming soul-destroying boring-as-shit full-time career path. Yes, mining is awful. I don’t care how much people think it’s “relaxing”. It’s boring, repetitive, non-interactive, and grindy. The only thing that makes it not boring is gankers and bumpers. And if it’s boring, grindy, and repetitive, someone is going to program a bot to do it. Or find some way to go AFK and go do something that is actually stimulating and fun. Mabrick is right, people don’t like having their time wasted for them. And Eve is currently full of such pointless time sinks.

Moving on to the argument that “Ganking is driving people away from Eve”.

I don’t have the metrics to prove that. CCP does. And it would be interesting to know the percentage of people that picked the “Because I got ganked.” radial button as a reason for unsubbing.

So to listen to the common paradigm of Eve, the natural foodchain of works like this; The older players with more skill points, alt accounts, and ISK to burn, entertain themselves by beating up the “new players”.

Is it that really how that works? I don’t think so.

Hisec is full of people. Target rich environment. Most of whom I would wager are actually alt accounts feeding ISK to PvP players to PLEX their accounts and fund their expensive ship exploding habits. Legitimate wet-behind-the-ears new players just get caught in the crossfire or are victims of random violence. Brand spankin new players aren’t flying barges in belts, or losing multi-billion faction fit battleships in their first hours or days even. In a game like Eve where loss actually matters. Risk aversion is an entirely natural and organic reaction. PvP players like to poke fun at the “cowardly” risk-averse PvE carebears.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Let me tell you. There is nothing more risk-averse than a null-sec “PvP” player ratting in an anomaly. There is nothing more “cowardly” than a lazy low-sec gate camp. They will run for a station or a PoS as soon as local flashes. They’ll cyno-drop hundreds of guys on your five man roaming cruiser gang. Why? Because they’re risk averse. They don’t want to get blown up, just like carebears in hisec don’t want to get blown up. So they throw overwhelming force at you because they’re the least little bit threatened. With null-sec carebears at least you get a fight, albeit one-sided. Pure Carebears just whinge about it on forums and quit the game. Everyone is risk averse. It’s just to what degree.

So what? Someone quit Eve because they were victimised. Did they not get the memo on the Cardinal Rule of Eve?

Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose.

Financially or emotionally. And it’s usually the latter that generates hilarious Teamspeak recordings and ragequitting.

So why don’t they “just go to low-sec or null-sec” where they can gank people without getting Concordokkened? Well. Simple answer is that; There’s nobody there. More exactly, there’s not enough players there to keep the predators satisfied. Why? Because of how Eve works.

The predators and prey analogy works pretty good. An oversimplification of the ecology of Eve, but it will work. Predators being those out looking to blow up some ships and possibly nab some shiny loot or just make someone’s day a little more miserable. Prey being the industrialists, the miners, the hapless guys just new enough to have a decent income stream and flying a ship they can’t easily afford to replace or are way too attached too. The most common “solution” touted to fix this problem is to make null and low more attractive monetarily. Put more carrot on the stick. This is hardly innovative or lateral thinking. For one the carrot and the stick analogy is terrible. The carrot is dangled in front of the nose of the stupid pack animal to trick it into going where the rider wants. The animal never gets to eat the carrot. The other popular “solution” is to move the Golden Standard that is Level 4 mission agents to low-sec. All that would do is make Level 3 Mission Agents the new Golden Standard.

Why are these both terrible ideas?


Because it’s not addressing a core issue that is plaguing New Eden. While some areas of the game are hideously difficult to learn, like PoS managment or turning a profit in Industry. Some things are just too easy. Like the pinch points in the transitions from hisec to lowsec to null sec, or the ability for null alliances to use the 300 Archon Cynobazooka to swat five Pirateflies. CCP chose to implement the game in this fashion. The suggestion to remove jump gates all together and make every ship jump capable within a certain range of star systems makes far more sense, and would open up new, and more organic routes through space. I can hear the bitching now. “But nobody will ever get caught, and blah-de-blah-de-sperg”. Bullshit. Hyperbole and you know it. Lazy pirates would actually have to do some hunting instead of camping gates like fat, nervous, sharks. It’d pretty much turn New Eden on it’s ear. And it’s desperately what is needed. Currently established trade hubs may be impacted and decentralized, more hubs may pop up in their place. The herd in hi-sec would be thinned out and organically redistribute itself, and the carebear perception that low sec and nullsec is impenetrable would be shattered. If low and null are more easily accessible, and easier to sneak in and out of, that provides the opportunity to turn a profit there. It doesn’t matter how big the carrot is on the end of the stick if there’s no means to actually get the carrot at some point. Players are not stupid pack animals. They’ll figure out that they will never get the carrot. Players need to be able to actually get the carrots in low and null with enough success to change the perception carebears have of low and null. Otherwise there is no point, and you have the current situation in New Eden. Densely populated Empire, and a wasteland out in low and null.

In the end it’s all about fighting perception and hyperbole. When the reality is actually much different.

Eve is not Dying.

It’s just fat, overweight, diabetic, and showing it’s age. Hopefully she gets a facelift soon.

~ Mouse

118 Comments

  1. Morpheus

    dabetus

    April 18, 2013 at 6:25 am Reply
  2. Dex

    God yes. I heard old timer's talk about the days before gates and dream of the adventures… bring it back, down with gates

    April 18, 2013 at 6:29 am Reply
    1. grunt

      nah dont bring the gates down makes some eve wide event where the gates send you to some difrent system in range of 1-25ly then after week or 2 they would start slowly setling down and in the end you would have more entrance system to 0.0 at the same time you could introduce some new space anomaly's maybe some other new stuff that would make life harder in 0.0 and more interesting

      April 18, 2013 at 8:38 am Reply
  3. druid_cilnok

    Maybe not remove stargates, thats a little extreme.

    But… the same idea just varied a little bit; more entry systems. Maybe 40 extra total. 10 in each corner of space. CCP could use some exploding star to explain it off, or some other fantasy.

    April 18, 2013 at 7:22 am Reply
    1. Incindir_Mauser

      Gates should die in a fire.

      It feels artificial that we have to "stick to the roads".

      In reality, it'd probably be too hard to remove them and put in a travel system that is more open and free moving.

      It doesn't make it a bad idea though.

      My point stands. It doesn't matter how much they nerf hi-sec or put goodies out in low and null. If pirates can perma-camp shit, the loners and bears will just stay put and we'll just get more of what we already have.

      PvPers bitching about the lack of targets.

      PvEers complaining about gankers because they won't get off their asses and go where the goodies are.

      It's the mental barrier that needs to be overcome far more than the virtual in-game one.

      April 18, 2013 at 10:24 pm Reply
      1. sdddsaadd

        its not hard eve launched without gates, and the itty bitty piewits cried and cried and cried they could not find GUD FITES, so CCP added gates.

        and its been down hill for low sec and null sec ever sense.

        April 18, 2013 at 11:24 pm Reply
  4. another loki down

    the passive combat annoys new players.

    April 18, 2013 at 7:28 am Reply
    1. Grio

      The passive and extremely slow combat annoys everyone. New players just quit faster because they have less invested.

      April 18, 2013 at 1:32 pm Reply
  5. Perry Groves

    I totally agree with the sentiment, a paradigm shift is needed, people are not stupid. At this moment it is only the industry and spreadsheets keeping me playing.

    April 18, 2013 at 8:09 am Reply
  6. sour

    dying or no dying or diabetes, call it whatever u like. EVE sux once again, with all this ship rebalance shit, nerfs one after the other, and now those idiotic ideas about gates etc. The average online players have dropped significantly once again, which means that ccp makes less money. And making less money is enough for a private company. hopefully some idiots will lose their jobs (especially that jackass responsible for the ships…whats his name kil2?), and management will reconsider. All in all…i got just one active account left ccp….lets see how many i have in 2 months from now :E

    April 18, 2013 at 8:10 am Reply
    1. Anonymous

      You're retarded and should be negrepped into oblivion then beaten to death with your own keyboard. EVE's ships are now more balanced than they have ever been, you're just a little crybaby because they took a launcher off your drake. You cant sit there with a straight face and tell me the cruiser rebalanced and the frigate changes didn't completely revamp and revitalize small gang PvP. Fozzie is a godsend.

      I rest my case, sperglord.

      April 18, 2013 at 8:38 am Reply
  7. blobbystander

    not a bad idea, it could work so long as the tools either repurposed/added in the game are balanced. Granted to a large extent the tools are already there in terms of probes, cloakes, etc. Now if only ccp could take an idea like this and put it in the game without taking 3+ years to do so.

    April 18, 2013 at 8:44 am Reply
  8. Just remove jump bridges and see roaming gangs swooping 0.0

    April 18, 2013 at 8:51 am Reply
  9. Jones

    +1 to
    (…)remove jump gates all together and make every ship jump capable within a certain range of star systems(…)

    April 18, 2013 at 9:11 am Reply
    1. troll

      +1 It would be a good solution to many of Eve-s problems.

      April 18, 2013 at 12:56 pm Reply
  10. N00bFr13ndly

    "Is it that really how that works? I don’t think so. "

    Yes it does work that way; I've seen it happen several times when I was part of a newbie friendly corp. There were three, four year old toons can baiting n00bs, usually in their first mining ships, in order to blow them to smithereens. And yes we saw new subs unsub immediately after that happened.

    Whatever your thoughts on the validity of the play style: yes, it does happen.

    April 18, 2013 at 9:24 am Reply
    1. Blackfin

      My son started playing with me. He had just go finished with the career missions and had his venture blown to shit the the pirate ass conv him and told him he need to pay 200m to continue to mine in his venture in that system. His toon was 5 days old! Fortunately my son didn't want to quit because of the support I gave him. But yes there are asshats out there looking to fuck up total noobs. I quite sure a few have unsub because of this behavior.

      April 18, 2013 at 2:55 pm Reply
      1. WHAT?

        So what?! Welcome to eve. If you or your son can´t handle the risky environment this game provides, maybe go somewhere else. This is part of Eve and it´s why it is now running for 10 years where other MMORPGS don´t even make it for 2 years.

        The game is not for everyone, that´s why its userbase always remained rather small. Everyone learned the hard way in his first month of eve. You either quit or learn from your mistakes and keep going. It is definitely not a childrens game as they usually can´t handle losses all to well. Eve let´s you play the game you want to play it. And if some pirate decides to ransom your son for 200 mil and blow up his venture that is totally fine. He might be an asshole doing this to a five day old char, but hey…if nobody shoots at young characters they won´t learn shit. For example that it is dangerous to mine in lowsec. You son now knows…and he learned something from it.

        April 18, 2013 at 5:08 pm Reply
        1. WWW

          Except we don't WANT the playerbase to be small. I play another game where the base is about 7000 individual players spread between 3 servers. In each one, there is one group of players who are all too powerful and have maintained their grip on dominance for years. This has lead to rapidly growing inactivity from other players who simply don't want to devote so much time to a game where they will only be stomped on anytime they try to retaliate.

          Gee, that sounds suspiciously similar to how PL and CFC operate and keep a hold on sov null. It will be a cold day in hell when they relinquish enough control for new entities to grow. Cue some more inactivity. Static territories and restrictive travel as well as the ability for the powerful to stay powerful with little to no effort will kill the game for sure.

          April 18, 2013 at 6:02 pm Reply
          1. WHAT?

            I won´t argue with that. And over the past two years CCP already installed a lot of safety precautions for people who don´t want to engage or be engaged in PvP. You basically get a fucking popup everytime you are about to do something which might get you killed. Now, there still is the problem of suicide ganking and i am all for fixing that.

            April 19, 2013 at 11:05 am
        2. Nothing Personal

          Hey, WHAT? I'm pretty sure that after 10 years, CCP is going to be thinking they'd like their game to be for everyone. I'm surprised you don't get that your attitude isn't in line with CCP's longer term goals anymore. They want to grow the game.

          Or to put it another way, they want the game to grow up. A small player base doesn't suit them anymore. High sec is pretty much where it needs to be right now. Not completely safe, but safe enough for more casual players. You 100% pure hard core pvp players need to understand that the vast majority of potential customers out there want to relax when they play, and CCP NEEDS to accommodate these players if there is going to be growth for the game.

          Get over it, or leave and find an alternative, because Star Citizen is on the horizon and Eve needs to mature as a universe as well as be a blood arena. CCP is a business and will try to grow whether you like it or not.

          April 19, 2013 at 1:53 am Reply
          1. Star Citizern looks gr8..wind commander was a gr8 game…will try it out when it comes out.

            April 19, 2013 at 3:07 am
          2. WHAT?

            Your argument being? There is enough room for people who just want to enjoy themselves for a little while and relax. Im not saying things should not get get worked on. PvE and mining should get a major rework in the future, suicide ganking in highsec needs to be punished harder. Im all for new people. Most people are not turned down by the fact that their ships get blown up when they act stupid…they get turned down by the boring grindfest that is everything else but PvP and social interaction in this game and it´s complexity. I never said anything else.

            I don´t understand what you are trying to imply here tbh.

            April 19, 2013 at 11:00 am
      2. Random Dude

        Yous the gane aginst the assholes. Tell your son dont sit in one system to long move every few days. Make friends who have fleets of miners, and combat support. If he was ransomed tell him not to pay and get hard quick because this game will chew you up if your soft.

        April 18, 2013 at 10:06 pm Reply
      3. bludonut

        i see tis as weeding out the weak early

        April 19, 2013 at 12:49 am Reply
  11. random dude

    leave gates as they are, they are still points of conflict
    but I like the idea of 40+ extra 0.0 entries. We got WHs already.
    Why not declare links between certain low sec constellations and one corresponding 0.0 region?
    So you will always have a guaranteed WH in those 5-7 low sec systems into the connected region.
    Mass should be to let through a medium sized BC fleet, or smaller to not let it be a shortcut for freighters… maybe mass for max 2 freighters.
    Then it collapses and instantly respawns in same low sec constellation, connecting to a different system in that 0.0 region.
    So with a bit of effort you can circumvent choke points.
    e.g. low sec Placid gets 2-3 guaranteed WHs into syndicate, outer ring and cloud ring.

    April 18, 2013 at 10:13 am Reply
    1. Leg

      Yes, bring your battlecruiser gangs through wormholes. Then we'll get lots of killz.

      April 18, 2013 at 2:14 pm Reply
      1. random dude

        win-win i guess then
        low sec guys form up to find some player interaction
        0.0 guys get the PVP delivered to their front door
        both happy, as everyone only flies what he can afford to lose,
        this should be the eve we all play for?

        April 18, 2013 at 3:01 pm Reply
    2. Scar

      I sure hope you'd at least try because in my experience when gangs pop into 0.0 systems everybody docks up and starts complaining about not having an FC . . .

      April 18, 2013 at 3:50 pm Reply
      1. Nulli Bro

        In Nulli Secunda, when a roaming gang is reported on intel, a fleet pops on finder right away and we often have 2 or 3 FCs…in the same fleet.

        April 18, 2013 at 3:57 pm Reply
  12. ex-CFC grunt

    tldr version?
    A lot of the comments are completely WAAAAAAAAAAA they did X to Y!!!!11111oneoneone!
    Not inspiring to traul through it all.

    Why in X name would people ganks for newbie miners for lolz. That's just pathetically sad – get a life, preferably out of game.

    April 18, 2013 at 10:16 am Reply
  13. a EvE player

    Yes CCP could make the game easier for new capsuleers…. had a few freinds not making it past the tutorial… simply because they got bored of flying missions and mining shit.. CCP make missions where capsuleers have to PVP to complete.. CCP make Null-sec harder to live in.. CCP make WH space more easy to live in.. CCP make it easy to mine yes.. but still I think EvE is a great game i have played it since 2007 and the game is still bringing me somthing new every time i log on!!

    April 18, 2013 at 10:24 am Reply
  14. Bucket ready

    I'd like to see a lot of changes to many things in eve that give people kills, simply because they've played the game longer or have a bigger blob. Things that have nothing to do with piloting skill. It will never happen, especially not with the changes we've seen in the last year. The blob has been hugely buffed, with the strength of T1 logi, and T1 ewar. Range and speed are being nerfed on all of the ships that allow you to use piloting skill to overcome numbers.

    What the game needs is to allow more freedom for people to travel. Make it harder to gate camp, all gates should have the spawn distance increased, closer to that of regional gates. Everyone cries about all the people held up in high sec, but that's how they feel, trapped. All the key gates into low are camped, and the same with access points to null. They need to restrict sensor booster to 1 per ship, how the fuck is someone supposed to fight back against an insta locking naga that alphas their ship to dust from over 100km before they can align?

    Make bubbles smaller and last only a few minutes, so people can't just camp on them all day. Make it so Titans cannot bridge inside a pos. If you wanna hot drop, you'd better have a good reason. Twice in the last week, I've had a gang I was in of less then 20 people in frigs and dessies, hot dropped. It wasn't a big deal because we were to retreat with few losses. But it's a pretty stupid game mechanic, suddenly blob.

    Put mass limits on cyno's, jump bridges, titan bridges. Once that mas limit is reached, 12 hour cool down. Everyone's first thought is "OMG, wah wah wah, I don't want to actually have to fly my ship around in a bunch of empty systems", but these if things were more restrictive and needed to be saved for when it was important. There would be a lot less empty systems. If it was a lot harder to camp gates, a lot more people would explore the real eve, and gtfo of high sec.

    Links also need a massive nerf. It is way to much of an advantage for a newer player to face someone in a perfectly skilled ship, who also has 40% bonus's from links on top of that, billions in implants at their disposal, a shinier ship, and more people to blob with. People should have to earn their kills with piloting skill, not get free kills because of an insurmountable base advantage. The experience, SP and ship alone that an older player can utilize against a newer player is a large enough advantage.

    Make all this derp, derp shoot fish in a barrel stuff harder to do, and easier to punish. That will make eve better. Most of the vocal people are elitist selfish pricks. They don't care about eve, or new players, they don't care about the future of the game. They just want to shoot helpless fish in a barrel, whether it's a bubble camp, cyno, blob, falcon, station camping, griefing, links.

    April 18, 2013 at 10:33 am Reply
    1. qwero

      signed

      April 18, 2013 at 11:15 am Reply
      1. Noobfriendlyvet

        While I won't be as rude as these guys, I will agree you seem to have some severe misconceptions. As we all did when we were as new to the game as you appear.

        I recommend looking into one of the many training institutes within New Eden, Agony PVP University, Noir Academy etc (probably avoid the carebear institutes which only serve to reinforce these misconceptions, a la Eve Uni)

        April 18, 2013 at 1:28 pm Reply
        1. Bucket ready

          Those "teaching" corps are complete shit. Noir academy flies around with 30 guys fand runs from every fight that isn't them ganking 1 ship. They are some of the most risk adverse people in eve. Agony's training program is a joke, here is why:
          http://www.agony-unleashed.com/wiki/index.php?tit

          Look at those fits, they are basically saying, "instead of taking the time to actually show you how to utilize a properly fitted ship, use these tankless, ab, ewar, no dps, shit fits, because using an MWD will get you killed, and your too stupid to actually understand how to get in range, and load your ship with ewar so you can be useful without knowing wtf you are doing"

          Overall their program is a good thing, and does teach a lot of good things. But the way they approach the situation of teaching a new player is bad imo. Teach them to use proper fits, let them learn the consequences of MWD'ing when a bomb goes off, give them a tank and let them learn how to hold a scram on something until more points are established and they can quickly bail using the MWD. You know, how a good player would actually utilize a tackle frig.

          Please, why don't you explain my "severe misconceptions", why aren't many of the things I listed accurately described as "shooting fish in a barrel". I'll agree the methods I described for nerfing blob's mobility are bad, but the fact remains the whole concept of nerfing those things into the ground would Improve the game.

          Nerfing Gate camping, bubbles, instalocking, cyno blobbing, links would all improve the game by making the areas of the game outside of high sec more accessible to everyone. It will help small gangs actually be able to travel around without 2 logi ships nullifying the entire gangs dps, or the only people in the entire region are in a blob sitting on a bubble camp if you do bring something that can actually give them a fight, they will run. Or you take a fight against a larger gang and lol cyno now we have 50 people, GF.

          The thing is most of the gate camping, link reliant, hot dropping, falcon cloaking, people in eve who think they are elite pvp'rs are just as risk adverse as the people in high sec.

          April 18, 2013 at 4:17 pm Reply
          1. baddies

            There is some truth in what you are saying. Most people are bad at eve. To actually master the ships you are flying is much harder than, for example, master a certain class in other MMORPGS. The easy way out is to get numbers where personal skill does not matter (besides the skill of the FC and maybe certain support pilots).

            Eve is harsh and punishes people who are bad and do mistakes. Another motivation to form blobs. Problem is you will never get better at doing anything if this is your style of pvp.

            April 18, 2013 at 4:55 pm
    2. Dafuq

      You have literally no idea what you are talking about

      April 18, 2013 at 11:39 am Reply
    3. hideyho

      PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PUT MASS LIMITS ON TITAN BRIDGES AND A 12 HOUR COOLDOWN.

      This would make it so much easier for RDN/GOONS/TEST/PL/NC. to rape everyone. You sir are literalyl an idiot. The alliance that have 100ish titans like those just listed would have a field day. lol. noob. Mass limits on cynos =useless we would jsut light more cynos.

      April 18, 2013 at 11:48 am Reply
      1. Bucket ready

        And how many titans do you think they'd lose if they were constantly pulling them out of pos's to bridge? Okay, you have to light more cynos, instead of 1 tanked ship lighting a cyno and 100 more are instantly on grid. This is still an improvement. Seeing as you're a goon, I can deduce that you really are scared of a change like this nerfing your blob, so you post the opposite.

        April 18, 2013 at 3:52 pm Reply
        1. Scar

          But you seem to forget that alliances like PL who have 100+ supers would be much more advantaged by this since they'd be able to rescue their Titans outside of the POS shields quickly vs small alliances with 1 or 2 Titans and a few supers who'd literally lose every Titan they own to PL dropping a blob of supers on them at ever cyno light.

          April 18, 2013 at 7:44 pm Reply
          1. Random Dude

            The issue with rescueing there Titans would be that tey would have just bridged there attack fleet out. How many pvpers wanna be told " you have to stay and guard the titan" That answer would be 0 and would cause a large amout of buthurt in PL because we know they are all LEEEET PVPers

            April 18, 2013 at 9:39 pm
      2. Antigoony

        The only reason a goon would reply like that is if the change would severely hinder them. Failgoon, Failganda.

        April 18, 2013 at 6:14 pm Reply
    4. honey boo boo

      you should just give me all your stuff and quit eve

      April 18, 2013 at 6:16 pm Reply
      1. Random Dude

        If you get it can I get half lolz

        April 18, 2013 at 9:28 pm Reply
    5. helpmeccpisuckateve

      Wow you managed to cram almost every have-not whine into one post. You did forget to complain about alt accounts tho.

      April 18, 2013 at 6:33 pm Reply
  15. Lazy Nervous Shark

    "Lazy pirates would actually have to do some hunting instead of camping gates like fat, nervous, sharks." Someone sounds butt hurt.

    April 18, 2013 at 12:16 pm Reply
    1. Carebear 101

      But he is right. You guys just stay with your big mouth open and wait for shit to drop. Where is the pleasure in that?

      April 18, 2013 at 2:08 pm Reply
      1. WHAT?

        do they? the gate camping faggotry is strong within SOME pirates and those guys usually get called out and are laughed upon by serious players.

        April 18, 2013 at 5:23 pm Reply
      2. eric loto

        So im flashy red sitting at undock on jita V in a velator, how long before im killed for being a pirate in highsec? some care bear will put me down before navy spawns
        We LIVE in those systems, ill be damned if some carebear uses my system to haul his bpos from hub to hub using lowsec shortcuts. Gate camping is simply homeland security, no different than me getting killed in jita, i do not belong and will pay the price.

        April 18, 2013 at 7:46 pm Reply
  16. funnyyyyy

    30 k accounts online =
    500 – 1000 trials
    2000 AFK miners/bots
    2000 AFK jita/other hubs trade bots/api
    1000 rat bots
    20000 alt accounts
    welcome to EVE

    April 18, 2013 at 12:48 pm Reply
    1. LOL,

      April 19, 2013 at 2:55 am Reply
  17. Draco

    +1

    April 18, 2013 at 12:51 pm Reply
  18. izulh

    Actually all you said is true but the real game come with real risks :) and it's much more funny.
    The point which is missing in eve is that you can't connect and go for a fight against similar ship.
    If you try to make something a bit crazy as declaring war against RvB with 5 guys connected and go for a fight and died because you don't have anymore battery in your mouse even if it's funny you died and lose ISks. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=10

    Actually I think If Eve want to attract and make stay more people one solution would be to create arranged team fight in the same way as the tournament with more online functionnality like :
    – people can bet on those fights
    – part of the gain are given to the loser and the winner team ( obviously a bigger part )
    – Max gain are given by the sum of the price of the ships onto the battlefield
    – Possibly make those fight broadcast availabble or not ( if somebody argue that if it's not visible nobady will bet; people are betting on a number on eve loto :) )

    This will make eve more attractive for casual player who don t want to wait 1 hour near by a titan or jump on system with time dialation 10 and get podded in the first five seconds )
    It will also make a new profession Gladiator !
    A give a solution to have real man to man fights in eve
    And with the bet system it spread the cost of the lost ships over a bigger amount of people :)

    The second solution is to give the possibility for players to instanciated a system for a fight :)

    April 18, 2013 at 1:27 pm Reply
    1. WHAT?

      No. What you want is arena pvp. This will never be implemented and never should be. There are plenty of games out there that provide this already. Eve now has a duel function. If you want to go 1v1, use that

      April 18, 2013 at 5:20 pm Reply
    2. Antigoony

      Make a corp or alliance and run your own damn PvP arena!

      And a new player could join FW and get in a fight immediately. Hell, he may even get into a decent fleet!

      April 18, 2013 at 6:08 pm Reply
      1. Random Dude

        join FW and get in a fight immediately. Hell, he may even get into a decent fleet! …. only if you wanna be in pre arranged fleets that run away if the other team brings something bigger than a dessy

        April 18, 2013 at 9:52 pm Reply
      2. izulh

        The main problem with FW is standing; more you kill more your standing are deacreasing and it's really borring to get them back as you need to make mission to get better standings :'(
        May be you don't care if you don't travel that much but when I am active on eve what I like it's to go somewhere to have a fight and it's needed some time to get ammo, ships and other stuff in amar caldari or gallente space especially if you want to fight in syndicate/providence/Delve :) and not leave all the time in camp gate at 15 world (low sec).

        April 19, 2013 at 1:10 pm Reply
  19. RightEndofStick

    Do not like this idea at all. There needs to be MORE reasons to instigate conflict in the game not less.
    A better solution to making low and null more accessible to the inexperienced would be adding more entry systems and routes.

    I feel there is a horrid misconception being spread, especially on this website, that wants to convince everyone Eve is too hard to learn, null and low are inaccessible to new players etc, and I'm calling BULLSHIT.

    Bullshit because we were all new players, and we weren't all SA or Reddit members, and WE got out into low and null, as many new players still do.
    The problem isn't where the level 4 mission agents are, or how difficult/easy certain mechanics are to learn or blob size or fastlocking-alpha camper ship capabilities.

    New Players do not need to be baited into low or null. They don't need convinced, shoved or showered in ISk for attempting. Just as they don't need it to become as easy as running level 4s.

    All they need is pointed in the right direction.
    The NPE that CCP has created pales in comparison to the NPE that the player has instigated. Goon recruitment drives, awful NPC corp advice, perhaps THE premier New Player recruitment agency within New Eden, EVE UNIVERSITY, constantly teaches and reinforces the putrid rhetoric of risk averse carebearism. It is organisations, experienced players, and articles like this that recycle these lies over and over until they are part of New Eden's culture that have caused this circumstance, and WE can change it at any time.

    Pointing newer players toward places like AGONY PVP UNIVERSITY or NOIR. ACADEMY and many others, would be far more helpful to them, to us and to New Eden as a whole.

    Sorry for use of caps if inappropriate, feel it borderline myself too.

    April 18, 2013 at 1:44 pm Reply
    1. Nothing personal

      Honestly, Dude. I joined EvE Online a little over 2 years ago and never had any intention of fighting if I could help it. I just LOVED the idea of a huge, expansive, beautiful, complex, explorable sandbox space game. And still do. I'm not a bully in RL and I'm not an asshole in EvE. It's a huge game. but apparently there's only room for one type of player in it. I don't mind pvp types. Afaic you're the ultimate boss monsters. But I certainly don't pine to be like you.

      You're like the guy one the ice rink who can't believe EVERYONE doesn't like a good, manly, fast-paced, rough-tough game of ice hockey. You can't BELIEVE some people just like to skate around, relaxing and enjoying themselves. What you think is you should be able to hip check them into the boards and give them a stick to the face because they're on the ice. And if they don't like it they can get themselves a helmet and pads and find a good team or toughness coach. Or find another rink. What do they think THIS ice rink is FOR, anyway?

      What do you think most average people would prefer do on an ice rink?

      I'm not against pvp. I just find it weird that most pvp'ers can't understand that many, many people enjoy role playing in the gorgeous EvE universe. And building a character. There isn't an alternative for them (yet). CCP understands that their money is as good as any. And that there's at least one alternative on the horizon (Star Citizen). And that more people are role-playing types (in general) than hard core pvp players. Because to pvp successfully in EvE, you have to be pretty hard core.

      April 19, 2013 at 1:18 am Reply
      1. bestshot

        if you go to an ice rink and there is a sign at the entrance that says "You may be hip checked or hit in the face with a stick at anytime, however in this small zone over here if someone does that to you, they will be asked to leave for a short time" would you still want to go for a leisurely skate, and expect to be left alone if you do? Oh and pvp in eve is not that hardcore learn or play, just takes some willingness to get blown up

        April 19, 2013 at 3:33 am Reply
      2. Prudentis

        Well observed, Nothing personal
        ahh and bestshot, thx for confirming all he said obviously without (or because of not) having undunderstood a word.

        July 2, 2013 at 2:53 pm Reply
  20. Clearly written by a nullsec pvp'er.

    It started off good but then I took a "PvP is better" rant to the knee.

    April 18, 2013 at 1:57 pm Reply
    1. Incindir_Mauser

      Worse.

      Wormhole Viking.

      And I personally hold a holistic approach to Eve. All playstyles are valid. PvP and PvE paths should be equally supported and encouraged. I do hold a personal distaste for weaksauce grindy time-sink PvE gameplay, equally matched by my sneering derision for lazy PvP mechanics.

      April 18, 2013 at 10:18 pm Reply
  21. Inmei T'ko

    How about gates where you can choose your gate destination within a certain range. Sort of a new technology jump bridge. You pick the system and jump straight there, from a special bridge located somewhere in certain empire and lowsec systems. It's not a big leap from what the game lore has already (jump bridges and titan bridges and blops bridges.) This would just present an alternative way of moving through lowsec. The downside would simply be, require that the user provide fuel for his or her jump, relative to the distance.

    There would still be opportunities to camp these different jump bridges, but the thing would be, if there were a bunch in range, which would you camp? Multiple options, some more expensive and some less, would be available for getting in and out of lowsec, some more direct and some less. And for scouting, you would still need friends or alts to fly all the way in to have a look and see if the other end was camped.

    April 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm Reply
  22. heile

    Mauder

    You are completely and utterly retarded. The idea that making travel safer will bring on a revolution where people spread out across eve is a false prediction. Instead it will actually lead to increased centralisation because 'hey why the fuck would I want to fly to somewhere where there are no players', if no one is there then likely there is not anything of any worth in that location… So now that it is easier and safer to travel to the best place for whatever, even more people will just head to those places. Your analogy of predator and prey is totally flawed in reality 0.0 is far more complex with a great deal of predator v predator/war either for fun or in a bid to control valuable resources you also forget the fact that many players would be classed as both predators and prey in your analogy . Another falsehood of yours is that you claim that eve players are not a bunch of brainless pack animals actually I would claim this is exactly the truth of it, many if not most are retarded, seek safety in numbers and follow people like lemmings. Your post and the stupidly ill thought out comments left by others just reinforces these points in particular Bucket Ready.

    p.s. R3D I commend you on a very sensible idea that I myself have been wishing to see for over 4 years

    Best wishes

    heile

    April 18, 2013 at 2:30 pm Reply
    1. Incindir_Mauser

      I can hear the bitching now. “But nobody will ever get caught, and blah-de-blah-de-sperg”.

      Bullshit.

      Hyperbole and you know it.

      April 18, 2013 at 10:10 pm Reply
      1. heile

        Thanks for proving my point about being retarded. Did I say no one would ever get caught? No I didn't, I said it would make travel safer thus leading to the consequences that I laid out.

        April 18, 2013 at 11:28 pm Reply
  23. Budnacho

    Im beginning to think the best way to handle Highsec is simply a limitation on Skill Points. Say for instance you reach 20 Million SP. At that point you are pretty much ejected from Highsec. You can purchase a 48 hour pass from Concord to come in, do trades etc, but the passes get exponentially larger in cost the closer together they are. If you Gank in Highsec, you lose the ability for one month to purchase a Pass to enter.

    This would result in large crops of players being pushed from the cradle into the areas of conflict on a regular basis ans if you want as well as take care of Ganking to a degree. Look, its an imperfect solution but it does solve the majority of the problems. Want to go into High Sec?…it'll cost you. Want to Gank in Highsec…it'll cost you.

    April 18, 2013 at 2:44 pm Reply
    1. Slothen

      That cure would be worse than the disease.

      April 18, 2013 at 4:25 pm Reply
      1. Budnacho

        How So Slothen? You get people in Low/Null, you can pretty much end the full carebearing in highsec, you limit ganking "somewhat"….

        Im just curious as to why its a horrible decision…?

        April 18, 2013 at 4:54 pm Reply
        1. Umm No

          Because a lot of carebears don't want to do anything BUT carebear, & if you attempted to try to push them into PvP, a lot of them wouldn't justsuck it up & go along with that, they'd quit, which would mean fewer subs, less money & soon, NO EVE. Never mind the much much much higher priced/more scarce ships & items since high sec is where a lot of EVE's industry takes place. Did you put ANY thought into this at ALL?

          You can't just force people into a playstyle that they don't want to engage in, they'll rebel & ragequit. carebears not only pay their subs too, they have multiple subs, corner them with 'Lrn2PvP or Leave!' as their only options & they'll leave in droves. There were players that quit just because of hiccups like Burn Jita & Hulkageddon, are you REALLY stupid enough to think that your plan would work?

          April 19, 2013 at 12:43 am Reply
    2. Antigoony

      This wouldn't work, as people gank with low SP alts anyway.

      Also, how the hell would industry work? I'm just closing in on 20mil SP on my miner/manufacturer and I am still not yet ready to do "real" industry.

      April 18, 2013 at 6:18 pm Reply
  24. Alskari

    You should have left out that last bit about removing gates. You were dead on about the current situation, but all the people you persuaded with the first 80% of the article forgot everything once they got to the gate removal section.

    This would have been great if you'd just stayed focused.

    April 18, 2013 at 2:53 pm Reply
    1. Feynon

      oh no. I agree Remove gates. And local.

      Make the alliance owning SOV the only people that can "install" local in a system.

      Some other ideas: If you dont maintain a certain amount of jumps per hour/day through a system, pirate factions come snooping an eventually flip your system to NPC space….Make NPC conquerable….and inversely make Player space conquerable by NPC…

      Null is unused because its too easy to take Sov and pay bills. Treat it more realistically (you dont use it the weeds start growing and then you lose it) and youll see that problem go away.

      other things: Station defenses…. SOV shouldnt just be paying for "I own the system until someone SBUs" get rid of the damned SBUing crap and have SOV revolve around structure defenses.

      DickStars = Great already………. requiring one at every planet / moon / belt in a system to enable "SOV local" would be a great idea. Outposts should have the same capability…. (actually 100 times more…so when when 30 Supers drop on a station….half of them die)

      these are all just a rambling of ideas.

      I think the easiest one though is getting rid of Local (and allowing Sov to create Alliance only local) that would make a huge difference in how much Sov is valued.

      April 18, 2013 at 3:45 pm Reply
      1. Slothen

        local is too overpowered currently, and would still be overpowered for sov-holders as you envison it. Give the sov holders a weaker (yet one-sided) advantage of a kind of system scanner structure, and replace local with perhaps constellation local.

        April 18, 2013 at 4:31 pm Reply
        1. troll

          ^^this

          April 18, 2013 at 4:47 pm Reply
        2. Antigoony

          Constellation local… fuckin' genius. I love that idea.

          April 18, 2013 at 6:20 pm Reply
      2. Anonymous

        Funny, that's exactly how sov used to be. It was much worse, trust me, I was there.

        April 18, 2013 at 4:46 pm Reply
  25. Anonymous

    I agree 100% with Mouse, the reason i never venture to null for ratting / missions / mining is the gate system. I dont mind if someone finds me on the belt at all, i dont mind if someone scans me on mission/anomaly whatsoever, but i do mind being boxed in a one system with bubbled gates with no way for me to move or do anything but stay cloaked on safety…. gg.

    April 18, 2013 at 3:46 pm Reply
  26. Slothen

    holy shit you actually made a 'no stargates' argument that was palatable. And most everything else was dead on the money. There ARE carrots in lowsec, but getting them is a goddamn pain if you're rightfully risk averse.

    April 18, 2013 at 4:05 pm Reply
  27. Scar

    Noob, N0ob . . . I keep hearing people say that they want to make Eve Noob friendly . . . but I don't actually believe what people are asking for is noob friendliness but rather what they're asking for is bitch friendliness. See noob has two meanings and neither is what people are asking for. You can either be asking for it to be friendlier to new players(noob/newb), dumb players(n0ob) or bitch players who never wanna lose anything . . . ever. Noobs/Newbs/No0bs are usually too new or dumb to know what happened but usually learn from their mistakes. Noobs/Newbs usually learn after a few times and No0bs may never learn from their mistake but neither usually want the game to be dumbed down to the point where they are completely safe all the time . . that's bitches . . . so what I'm asking is . . . do we really want eve to be completely safe ? Eve is a sandbox . . and a sandbox means exactly that . . . a free for all

    April 18, 2013 at 4:10 pm Reply
    1. honey boo boo

      ^ this

      April 18, 2013 at 6:20 pm Reply
    2. izulh

      The problem is not to make Eve a noob friendly game it's just to make eve more interactive more attractive more addictive than to wait all the time until the moment where the risk are at the minimum to jump to pass throug a gate to bridge.
      An other way to say that is to make Eve a game again !
      The solution to that is to give the hope to the player of being able alone or not to change a situation and give them the opportunity to be some kind a Hero.
      As at the moment nothing is really moving in Eve blob are bigger that means no way to conquer "good" territory nor to prod super cap without aknowledgement from blob ( to have your name on the map).
      ( And I don't have anything against blob as it's part of the game and it give opportunity to make epic fight = a role to medal :))
      Opportunity in low sec to make a fight have to finish like this else you die :) http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=850… ( It was also a titan :) risk at minimum too bad that we were not hot droped )
      People in eve are not necessary here to fight in low, null sec, FW, some of them just want to play with other people cool to relax and enjoy (?mining, missioning …) in a large epic universe.
      Some other are waiting for an opportunity is this universe which should always be in mouvement as it's a sandbox but actually nothing is moving.
      So it's needed to be created new way of playing, new opportunity for player else Eve It will die :'(
      And those you are able to call them noob because you can kill them in the game will just disapear with the game :'(

      My 1 cent advice :)

      April 19, 2013 at 1:37 pm Reply
  28. Ditra Vorthran

    " In Eve, mining is a time-consuming soul-destroying boring-as-shit full-time career path. Yes, mining is awful. I don’t care how much people think it’s “relaxing”.'

    You claim lack of bias, then slam a very important a necessary (but much needing in mechanic/immersive changes)? Sorry, major loss of credibility. *You* think it's boring. *You* think it's soul-destroying, etc. It's okay to have an opinion, but don't project your feelings onto me or others like me, thank you very much.

    April 18, 2013 at 4:18 pm Reply
    1. Slothen

      don't be so butthurt. Mining is a terrible and uninteractive mechanic, it incourages people to bot, it propogates the perception that Eve = ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz because new players feel like going to mining by default. It takes a lot of skillpoints, isk, and multiple accounts to be effective. Furthermore, new players that go into it provide a rather insignificant portion of total minerals. This is a result of untouched mining mechanics, not an indictment of miners, but these mechanics are bad for the game, and bad for new players.

      April 18, 2013 at 4:41 pm Reply
      1. Ditra Vorthran

        I agree that mining is a 'terrible and uninteractive mechanic.' That's not why I'm 'butthurt' as you so eloquently put it. I'm merely pointing out the authors inherent hypocrisy in claiming to write an article with a lack of bias, then deliberately and purposefully injecting his own bias into it.

        Plus, I don't like people telling me how I feel. =/

        April 18, 2013 at 5:15 pm Reply
        1. Incindir_Mauser

          I never claim to be unbiased. Ever. I am totally biased. Everything I ever write is from my own perspective.

          I never once claimed to be writing the article in an unbiased manner. In fact I stated that I was going to write it with my slant without the "tears and bear-goggles".

          Anyway.

          Mining is still boring, terrible, shitty, and awful. It lacks actual activity. People can and do literally AFK mine for hours. YOU may be okay with this. That's fine. You're entitled to it. You're also entitled to look like a fool.

          Same thing with ratting. It too, is boring, shitty, and awful. It it also botted to hell.

          April 18, 2013 at 9:57 pm Reply
  29. Anonymous

    How about keep the StarGates and the systems that they normal go to (for free), but for a fee they will go to a system with in say 15ly at a cost of 1 mil p/ly. This would open up a lot more systems to people and keep the gates up. This would also add a sink to the game to help get rid of the fat in EvE online's isk intake.

    Yes people will say that would ruin the risk to low sec and 0.0 and just make it easier for the people in high sec to make isk, but really it goes both ways. 0.0 and low would have faster trade routes, and high sec would have better ways to get out to 0.0. Also faster fleet movements for fights.

    Not the only problem I see with this. What is to stop someone from flying to a gate then jump thought at 15ly and then slow boat it the the new gate and jump 15ly more from that same gate, or there are some games only 100,000 km apart. The gates would have to be moved so they are about the same distance part from each-other and it would have to be written into the game that the gate you entered a system in (with in the 15 min) can not be used to jump to anyway but it's adjacent system.

    April 18, 2013 at 4:24 pm Reply
  30. the real voice

    Dont make nullsec more profitabl, make being in highsec less profitable. Put level 4's in lowsec and remove icebelts from highsec. I'm an 07 toon and i think the problem isnt the carebears, its the fact that its to easy to live in highsec. Sure there are lots of goodies in null but all the good stuff is already owned by blobers. Giving more isk to null isnt the answer.Also I Would argue there are to many highsec systems, to many places for people to grow stupid and fat.

    Eve is sandbox and once you hit a few months you should have to goto lowsec to make more isk. Highsec is to easy and large.

    April 18, 2013 at 8:02 pm Reply
  31. M1k3y

    >Article talks about EVE's threadnoughts
    >Starts a threadnought in the comments

    April 18, 2013 at 9:52 pm Reply
  32. The_Oracle86

    hehe i like the article, fun read. Removing gates is an interesting idea, but i just can't imagine it working. Personally i like the removing of local channel in low and null. Removing local channels is already tested and proven with wh space. So theres nothing game breaking about it, only gamechanging :)

    April 19, 2013 at 12:44 am Reply
    1. Nothing Personal

      I agree. Removing local and making perfect intel expensive to institute and something worth defending that could be attacked would make the game MUCH more interesting.

      April 19, 2013 at 1:56 am Reply
    2. justanotherscrub

      oracle that only works because in whs the force projection is alot smaller, whereas in the rest of eve a titan can get in range and drop a 200 man fleet on you at any second with 50 supers to annihilate you, removing local would not be good for regular eve because of that and would only make forces like the cfc and pl even stronger than they are

      April 20, 2013 at 8:02 pm Reply
  33. Hey Halfwits

    It just amazes the SHIT out of me when I see people make serious comments about 'getting rid of the carebears'. No matter HOW boring I find some of the shit that they do, I DO realize that the game needs them, for in-game & real life reasons, & if I want to keep being able to play this game, since I want to keep being able to play this game, I accept that they HAVE to stay.

    Lose the carebears & we'll all eventually have to look for a new game, is THAT what you want? Cause I sure don't, I have accumulated too much stuff here to be ok just walking away from all of it because some of you are narrow-minded & short-sighted.

    April 19, 2013 at 12:57 am Reply
    1. BearWithBite

      It is nice to see that not all EvE pilots are idiots. I just finished having a fight in IRC chat (Eve Radio) about the fact that people should be able to play in Eve however they want. I personally am a Carebear. I don't cry if and when I get into a fight, that is the game.
      I had the guy on IRC tell me that I was pathetic because I like to build the ships and mods that my PVP friends use to protect me… (and kill you)

      Everyone talks about the PVP blob … well have you seen a blob of miners? chillen out, drinken, smoken, having fun hanging out on TS3 while they are making isk at the same time (not to mention keeping each other safe in game)…
      no different then a party except hanging out online instead of a bar or house.
      But all the PVPers see is us sitting on bets doing nothing. …. Mining and Indy can be just as fun as PVP, its just that the PVPers seems to hate the fact that we generate the isk while they just shoot shit, and don't make much isk at all. I think an appropriate response to the trouble making PVPers is "why you mad bro?"

      April 23, 2013 at 10:29 pm Reply
  34. Someone told me once,"You can't become what you despise…" so if EVE players want a massive game….have massive appeal, plain and simple. If EVE players and CCP want a game made "the EVE way…" then have the "i like the EVE way" players play the game and don't Expect the Millions of accounts to open. If you have no sugar you have no ants. IMHO EVE is just an Indi MMO, space thematic , rigid, static, slow to adapt and complex, at the point that when you start play eve you so hear so much crapola from old players that even 2 years in the game your still a noob, in a computer game!…like you need a bachelor degree or something.

    Lets face the truth, 300k account base, more than 30% of players have multiple accounts, its a small MMO by today standards. If you want change….better start doing things very different. Let's not criticize what has work for other MMOs and lets focus on REAL numbers not bullshit, or on the other hand lets just have it "EVE way", STFU and have what we have today.

    April 19, 2013 at 2:52 am Reply
  35. alx Warlord

    No matter how big is the carrot that you put in front of the Donkey, he will not move at all if he is dead!

    April 19, 2013 at 6:47 am Reply
  36. No Gate?

    So you want to remove gates and be able to jump into systems? hwo the hell are you meant to be able to chase / persue people at all in this way then????
    The entire market of eve revolves areound the simple and needed aspect of shit getting blown up! if people dont blow shit up then the bears have no reason to make new ships mod etc and the whole deck of cards falls down!

    I remember the same crap years ago with "we need to be able to warp to 0 so we can get through low sec" which aside form costing me a healthy income selling bm's made a verey dangerous place pretty much safe for everyone and put chasing ships more a matter of warp speed than piloting.
    Yet pirates and pvp'ers adapted and changed setups and now still catch said bears on thier travels, to remove the ability to track a target is ridiculous entirely. "Lazy pirates would actually have to do some hunting instead of camping gates like fat, nervous, sharks" so then bright spark when you know someone is moving a strategic ship from A to B how do you intercept it if it can simply jump into the system anywhere? Gates need using more in my opinion, esspecially in null as JB's and Titans mean you can get around entire regions of eve without touching a gate at all meaning you cant really be caught baring a fleet on a JB.

    High sec is already too safe, people get ganked so what its what makes our merry little world go round and funds the same people into making more shiney toys for people to buy but what it also does is fuels people to want revenge and find thier way to PVPing themselves – yes people rage quit but thats computer games in general (youtube fat kid smashing xbox – pissa). Eve isnt for everyone, its harsh and is about doing what you want where you want, hence the repercusions for doing so are in place to stop it being continous but sod making things even more safer – push people into conflict not let them vegitate in an asteroid belt thinking about self harming bewcause they are so fucking bored!

    April 19, 2013 at 11:22 am Reply
  37. i just wanna put this out here since the topic of this is completely irrelevant at this point reading the comments….

    yes snuff has titans
    yes snuff has supers
    yes we titan bridge from our LOW sec home onto hapless retards that happen to come through
    no we dont care about (what was the term used? N0oB) wanna whine about more tears for our jars
    yes we get blobed http://kb.snuffboxcorp.com/?a=kill_related&kl
    yes null sec guys bring some fun for us

    we are a pvp corp our soul mission in eve is to collect tears while having good fights…. GOOD FIGHTS… about 90% of our fights are us fighting a blob 2 and upwards of 5 times our size its a fun fight… as u can see in that link above.
    also for those who cry about "boxing" http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sn… the shit snuff box does wouldnt be possible if we didnt have alt toons… its eve we pay extra $15 a month per account.. and we get good fights… its all about the good fight…we dont care who where u came from until u enter the tama pocket plain an simple… bring a gang well match u…. come solo someone solo will find u bring a blob… we <3 blobs

    vid from the KM i linked… .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDHZA7_5Si4 its fun
    as was this…. http://kb.snuffboxcorp.com/?a=kill_related&kl

    i can link this shit all day….. just wish i can find the vid for that last one… any who

    this is how eve is… this is how its been…. its not broken its the players that are broken…
    indy people need pvpers and pvpers need indy people…. wtf would that mountain of isk be like if u had…. say… only 50% of the ships daily explode…. the prices u would have to put all your ships/mods/wtf ever u fancy on building the prices will get cut in half simply due to the lack of them being exploded… its a win for pvp cause then that just means we can buy ships cheaper to blow more stuff up with… its basic without pvp indy doesnt thrive… without indy pvp doesnt thrive…deal with it the games not broken its retards playing the game that cant use common sense when doing things around the perfectly fine mechanics install in the game as of this day….

    and i will now leave u with a FAMOUS Urine Alliance link: http://twentypercentcooler.net/data/9f/be/9fbe71e

    April 19, 2013 at 11:55 am Reply
    1. scrubbox

      ^ this is what the author is talking about. Snuffbox is a bunch of risk averse children. They cower behind their titans and drop 30-50 man fleets on small 3-4 man gate camps….why? because they are afraid of fair fights. they are afraid of losing. It is a shame that eve has gotten this way. I remember back in the day when the solar wind blew to the anthem of good fights. Where there was honor in the fields between FC's.

      April 21, 2013 at 8:48 am Reply
      1. lol u sound like someone that has fought us and failed… cause again u talk about or dropping of gate camps and shit but u dont talk about the massive null alliances we fight on a regular… something u prolly wont do at all…as well as the fact that u prolly hide behind your alliance as well….

        April 22, 2013 at 10:25 am Reply
  38. PL grunt

    They’ll cyno-drop hundreds of guys on your five man roaming cruiser gang. Why? Because they’re bored….

    April 19, 2013 at 3:14 pm Reply
    1. Curse Resident

      Then have all the blue clusterfuck leaders unfucking blue eve

      April 19, 2013 at 9:04 pm Reply
      1. Noisrevbus

        Why would they when it only takes one leader to say "I'd rather win".

        The real way to deal with the issue is pressing CCP to take the game in a direction that encourages up-engagement again, where players have a reason to take the 1:2 and 1:5 fights.

        You don't get there by making all ships the same, removing ISK as a factor and creating new ships based on the principle of killing everything and dying to everything for "more explosions".

        April 24, 2013 at 1:21 pm Reply
  39. Gav

    Put a straight up 50% unavoidable market tax on all highsec markets.

    April 19, 2013 at 8:00 pm Reply
    1. retardedmonkeyfuck

      Lol special. Very special.

      April 22, 2013 at 2:13 am Reply
  40. Tiago

    I played this game for years. 2 things turn me off. First it was the blue donuts, when it started to happen last year in full effect. I never cmplained about a blob. I can resist it. Sometimes I cant and my ship got destroyed. However I realised, it is not just game mechanics. It is the prolific bad attitude of people, which is a bigger problem. More then ever I react allergic to spam and smack from blobbers, often Goons. I know, what they say, is bullshit. I care, because it says indirectly something about, who they are. All these homophobic and anti-semitic comments, all this bullying. You can never make a post in Eve without "you mad" or "your tears taste delicious" no matter, how right you are. It made me realise, I can no more identify with this. The game is too immature and stupid for me. In the end it is not the game mechanics, it is the players, who are just too stupid and rude. Unfortunately the assholes rule the game. Eve would be a wonderful game, if the attitude of players changed and people start to work more together. Why does it need to be a dark, cold place for human scum, some of them are scum RL, too? I lost fun to beat on a dead horse. I play now other games with way better communites, who I do not have to be ashamed off, if my speakers were turned on or somebody reads the chats. They just do cool things, play a cool game and respect each other. You read no "u mad" "u jew" "oil on your anus" "delicious tears" – nothing of that. because apparrently Goons are not playing this game.

    April 22, 2013 at 12:21 am Reply
    1. Master_Hyde

      You can throw PL and TEST in that group also.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:42 am Reply
    2. Seth - Admin

      you mad? 😀
      J/K btw but I think you do sound very bitter. EVE players in general aren't "stupid" and aren't that rude.
      EVE has one of the most tightknit communities around the web. Yes 0.0 sec is rude, and pirates are jerks, but that's the nature of the game and personally I love it. When you undock you can be blown up in EVE that is what makes New Eden great and if you cry about that, it is nothing more than normal that they will harvest your sweet tears.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:13 am Reply
    3. Noisrevbus

      I find it funny that you don't make the connection between "the assholes rule the game" and how the game is being designed. Needless to say, the two largest groups in EVE these days are two big comedy websites. Their playerbase come with a certain attitude, like it or not, brandished in those communities (think: "community-born").

      The reason those attitudes are so prevalent in EVE these days though is because CCP have fed mechanics that fit into the hands of those playerbases. If you make numbers stronger, ISK mean less, ships more similar and so forth … it's their style of gameplay that you encourage and as a result it's their attitude to the game that become the norm of the greater game-community.

      It's not rocket science. Considering that it's ramping up to be the only way to play the game, you will see the casual, humorous, large number attitudes thrive at the expense of other "cultures" in the game from those "EVE born" to those "other game born". If there's anything I miss in the perspective of things these days, it's that the "other game" groups are often forgotten despite filling out large swaths of middle ground and providing the game with a broad spectrum of different "cultures".

      April 24, 2013 at 1:13 pm Reply
    4. justAnotherANTIgoon

      " It made me realise, I can no more identify with this. The game is too immature and stupid for me."
      " I play now other games with way better communites"

      NOW THEY WON.
      http://youtu.be/JYgpNLEbpYM?t=2m47s

      In EVE 'war' means: to keep the enemy logged out and quit the game

      April 26, 2013 at 9:45 pm Reply
  41. HCB

    What is wrong with being a carebear ?
    Why do they have to be punished because you don't like the way they play the game ?
    Have you not figured it out yet ?
    They are not in Low or Null sec because they don't want to be. They are enjoying the game they are playing so leave them alone. You want to PVP more well reset every one in you standing. You should then have plenty of targets.

    April 22, 2013 at 4:27 am Reply
  42. Gumption

    Lets take this analogy further shall we?

    You notice that there are other guys up in hockey gear. You can pay one of them to turn and dogpile any of the asshole who look like they're getting a little too close to the safe zone. BAM you've just used your brain and solved a problem.

    You could sneakily push one of the other guys in the safe zone out of it so he gets he shit smacked while you carry on being safe.

    You could start wearing a little hockey armour yourself so when an asshole comes over to start trouble he's been dragged away by the staff before he's done any real damage.

    See where I'm going here?

    April 22, 2013 at 10:01 am Reply
  43. Andre

    moving L4s to low would be a quiting reason for me. Why? Because I need a steady, secure income to pay my gametime.

    April 23, 2013 at 8:15 pm Reply
  44. Zander Kumamato

    It’s not tears you’re getting from most, It’s a great sigh that we have to go fit yet another ship, lol, isk/hour? Really? People play simply for isk/hour? That is kind of sad, I play to have fun. Not to have a second job.

    Buy a dozen plex’s and be done with it. Fly what you can afford? Can’t afford it? Go mow a lawn or clean a gutter and then buy a plex. Afford a dozen+ battlecruisers with that plex you earned doing an hours worth of job outside of game, lose it? So what…

    I think it’s a bit more like this: that most people wanna be able to walk around the city and go to the country and do their jobs (fun) without having to treat everything like one huge ghetto with some gang banger ready to rape your wife then kill you and her and take your car then piss on your grave while stealing your milk and cookies and laughing about something they perceived as taking from you emotionally.

    Sure there are people that flip their lid and actually do cry, but they should prolly go play an easier game, like farmville, if the game was easy, I wouldn’t play it, I like all those senseless certificates and complexity and shit, I find this game pretty easy. I tried a dozen MMO’s before I settled on eve, thought the other mmo’s were crap. Don’t lock me into a tutorial, hand me nothing but the most basic of the basic and turn me loose.

    FPS single players went the same way too, single path shooting galleries, not complicated mazes that you get lost in. I usually achieve 95% or higher accuracy with my favorite weapons in my favorite FPS multiplayer games.

    Things like Skyrim lost out to me due to being too easy, If they’d kept on the path that Daggerfall was on, endless amounts of skill and thousands of miles of stuff to explore with dungeons that could take two months just to get a notch in on the true depth of them.. Then you create a new character and have a whole different randomly generated world, Awesome! Skyrim is a cold dead world, biggest town? five houses or whatever? REALLY? HAHA.

    Could you imagine if your town that you live in out of game was like what most of eve appears to be? You’d have to mount guns all over your vehicle, install multiple layers of inch thick armor, and pray to whatever god or thing you pray to that you won’t die while just trying to go flip some burgers or crunch numbers and code in the office or whatever it is you do. While a town in daggerfall? You could survive in, might get your house robbed one night, just don’t venture too deep into a dungeon or get too close to that random creepy house out in the country, You’ll die.

    lol. lol. lol. lol.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujzp9ffPwPM When you’re evil.

    August 25, 2013 at 3:35 am Reply
  45. Joe

    Two months ago I subscribes and purchased some plex so I could start the game running. Flash forward too today and I’ve canceled my subscription at around 2m sp. The community in this game has to be one of the worst I have ever played with. On top of the asshole ridden community that literally want to make the game miserable for others it’s a massive time sink with very little pay off. You grind some time to earn some isk to fly a ship that you then lose and rinse repeat. How about some pvp? Ya because a 2m sp character can really do anything to anyone.. Want to try another form of making money because you don’t like the other one? Wait two weeks for the training before it becomes viable in a isk/hour put into it ratio.

    Not only does it take to long for anything to train/happen in this game it’s also hostile to new players in every aspect not just in it’s learning curve. Your new to the game and have a shiny ship. Lets kill him because he shouldn’t have it. Your new too the game and want to try courier contracts to earn isk. Well lets kill you because your new and you shouldn’t be able to afford that kind of cargo or ship you have it in. The community is such a turn off to playing this game it’s even more a deterrent then the massively large and unnecessary learning curve. You leave the game mechanics and social aspects up to the community and leave very little actual laws or rules and they’ll take it and shit all over it and make it the worst it can be and that’s happened in eve more then I’ve ever seen in an online community.

    I really wanted to love this game it hits that niche game that I wanted to get into but the long train times, horrible community, lack of any real security anywhere, and the general grind fest this game is has turned me away. Don’t regret my purchase but sure regret wasting my time.

    October 8, 2013 at 4:45 am Reply

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