I’m always amused whenever I see Pandemic Legion touted as being one of the major partners of the HBC. HBC being the Test Alliance-Pandemic Legion coalition.

Pandemic Legion has about as much loyalty to the concept of a Honey-Badger Coalition as does Gentlemen’s Agreement. It seems all too apparent that Pandemic Legion’s allegiances lie firmly with the CFC (the Goonswarm controlled coalition). Why? Technetium.

(I’m not going to talk about Shadoo’s wargames. Most people see it as complete farce, and Ripard Teg has already written well on the subject.)

The two groups most resistant to the idea of a Great War, the CFC and Pandemic Legion, have the most to lose financially. Pandemic Legion’s tech holdings are not at the behest of Test Alliance, but rather at the charity of Goonswarm. Pandemic is not going to go to war under an HBC label, because the HBC offers them nothing financially. War would mean Pandemic Legion having to defend its holdings from the very people who allow them the privilege of those holdings in the first place. Entering a Great War under an HBC tag would be biting the CFC hand that has been feeding them.

There used to be a time when Goonswarm feared the Legion, a time when Goonswarm could not match the super-capital holdings of PL. In the last eighteen months, that’s flipped 180 degrees. Pandemic Legion is firmly under The Mittani’s thumb. If The Mittens doesn’t want war, then Pandemic Legion doesn’t want war. The threat of trying to wriggle out from under the heavy thumb is their technetium supply.

It’s hard to blame the CFC and Pandemic Legion for this reticence to fight. They rely on their big incomes. That’s what we’re told.

The CFC are barely making ends meet (I’m recalling some posts from Mittens, a few months back, after tech alchemy was re-introduced, bemoaning that they may have to resort to renters to survive.) A Great War could sink them if they lost any significant portion of their tech income. Or so the propaganda goes; so they would want us to believe. CFC certainly has some big bills, but even bigger income. Pandemic Legion has big income, very little in the way of bills to pay. It’s not so much that they rely on their big incomes, as they wish to see them grow. One day, CCP will get around to changing how nullsec and sovereignty work. The people with the really big wallets are going to find themselves as continuing superpowers. Why Great War, when there are rainy days on the horizon?

Passive technetium income is really to blame for all of the blueness in the western half of nullsec. When there is so much ISK at stake, you can’t really blame folks for becoming a little greedy. Once the Roman Republic consolidated its holdings, once the money started rolling in, they entered their Empire phase, high ideals were quickly overshadowed by wealth acquisition. That’s where the CFC and Pandemic Legion are now. Crassus and Pompey. Gone is the Republic, here be the Empire. It’s downhill from here, until such time as CCP changes the parameters of the contest.

If we were in a farms and fields scenario for nullsec, where member taxation determined income, where use of space dictated sovereignty, we would not be talking about this. The Great War would have been waging since January.

Until CCP sees fit to rework sovereignty, such that nullsec looks more like this:

And less like this:

Greed will continue to rule the day.

In the meantime though, can we agree that there is an HBC. There is a CFC. And there is a Pandemic Legion, who sort of sit in-between the two, though with obvious leanings towards the CFC side of the fence.

Poetic Stanziel

You can read more of Poetic Stanziel’s opinions at his Poetic Discourse blog.


  1. petwatch

    All generals need cannon fodder.

    March 17, 2013 at 10:16 pm Reply
  2. fuck goons

    And this is why HBC is no different then CFC, PL and TEST both owe there very existence to goons, and for everyone feeding off their shit, you are never gonna have a good sov war fight again until you realize the shit they feed you and break off to do something on your own… until then enjoy your staged fights, why not just do it on test server and save yourself all the problems of not being able to use your capitals! wow that would be even more fun.

    March 17, 2013 at 10:19 pm Reply
    1. INKer

      Yeah, lets all just go and live on the test server. Never have to rat again, well stocked markets for all ur T2 needs. Its perfect, plus we dont have to do any structure grinding!

      Oh yes, I lurv the idea of consequence/risk free super-cap / T3 fights – why even bother with logi…


      March 17, 2013 at 10:49 pm Reply
      1. Noisrevbus

        Your comments say more about the state of EVE than they are meant to imply, I imagine ;).

        I am just wondering when all these sirening yahoos, like Poetic, are going to wrap their heads around the causality of the whole thing, rather than stating the obvious and throwing their short-sighted aspirations around.

        Almost everyone in EVE act the way we do because the game encourages it. It’s pointless flying HAC for a small-gang pilot, so most of them have stopped. It’s pointless engaging-up for a small-gang pilot so most of them have stopped. It’s pointless risking Tech so most of them have stopped. It’s pointless risking Supers without coalition mass, so most of them have stopped.

        This throwing of pies is getting rather tiredsome. On one end you have FW-encouraged (lowsec, Cruisers) players yelling at others to risk their Tech and Supers; on the other end you have SOV-encouraged coalition-forming, Super-wielding players yelling back that the other should form coalitions out of non-existant pools, come fight for Tech and stop flying newbie ships.

        Around the scaffolding of this whole ordeal you have CCP prioritizing improving newbie ships over adressing passive income, just making the whole thing worse, sending their economy into further disarray and polarising the playerbase :).

        March 18, 2013 at 1:38 pm Reply
  3. Fatwa

    I'm guessing you haven't noticed that PL is setting up rental space in the drone regions as part of the ongoing N3 hostilities vs. SOLAR? Tech by means of agreement with CFC, crucial manpower from the HBC, and N3 providing security for their "in case of tech nerf break glass" rental properties. PL's fingers are in all the nullsec pies.

    March 17, 2013 at 10:20 pm Reply
    1. The Observer

      Funny thing about the PL renter alliance. NO ONE WILL MESS WITH THEM. HBC and CFC and N3 don't want to stir the super blob of papa PL.

      March 17, 2013 at 11:31 pm Reply
      1. LOL

        LOL!!! PL lack the manpower to do anything relevant on their own.
        Who the fuck cares that they have hundreds of supers as long as they can’t put 150 ppl in a fucking fleet? And this including dual/triple-boxing.

        March 18, 2013 at 9:17 am Reply
    2. CommanderBolt

      You cannot deny shadoo is a good strategist. Or whoever runs there shizneh.

      March 19, 2013 at 7:49 am Reply
  4. Whitehalo117

    And all the cannon fodder needs generals :)

    March 17, 2013 at 10:26 pm Reply
  5. March 17, 2013 at 10:45 pm Reply
    1. Shogun

      Lets use Bagehi logic…..

      Look guys the Amarr, and Minmatar faction warfare has ended.

      March 17, 2013 at 10:58 pm Reply
    2. Did that lead to war? You're still at peace, right? If not even Asakai could convince anyone to go to war, a freighter loss certainly isn't going to do it. The technetium is powerful with the CFC and PL leadership.

      March 17, 2013 at 11:15 pm Reply
  6. war observer

    If PL and Goons are Crassus and Pompey who then is Caesar?

    March 17, 2013 at 11:00 pm Reply
    1. Ronald McDonald

      A dressing put on salad. Involving italian hard cheese!

      March 17, 2013 at 11:13 pm Reply
    2. Test, of course.

      At the time Crassus and Pompey were vying for power, Caesar was the low-man on the triumvirate totem pole.

      (Whether Test will ever come to the forefront as Caesar did, well that remains to be seen.)

      March 17, 2013 at 11:17 pm Reply
      1. war observer

        But Caesar was political and military genius and Test is just a pack of spergy retards? :-/

        March 17, 2013 at 11:25 pm Reply
        1. During the Third Servile War, Caesar was kind of a non-entity. It took some time before he grew into the legend. (Like I said, that remains to be seen concerning Test.)

          And Caesar wasn't that much of a political genius. He was surprise assassinated, after all, due to his politics.

          March 17, 2013 at 11:42 pm Reply
        2. Jakes

          A lot of people get confused about this, there were two men called Julius Caesar's, one was Gaius Julius Caesar, he was loved by the people, and was great military leader, but a not so good with politics (he was only in power three years before being assassinated by political rivals). Then there was Augustus Julius Caesar, He was hated by the people, was not really considered a great military leader, but was very good when it came to politics, he stayed in power as dictator for 20 years.

          March 18, 2013 at 12:12 am Reply
          1. Sky Faggot

            Pretty sure everyone knows this. Augustus and his successors took the name Caesar despite only a distant relation to Julius Caesar.

            March 18, 2013 at 4:53 am
      2. hurhur

        you see, EVE is a lot like the ancient Roman wars . . .

        March 18, 2013 at 12:06 am Reply
        1. Whether in-game or real life … organizations deal with real people, with real people motivations. Empires rise and fall in EVE not so dissimilarly to those in the real world.

          March 18, 2013 at 8:55 am Reply
      3. bludonut

        then ceaser(TEST) got betrayed and stabbed by his piers(PL)

        March 18, 2013 at 7:59 am Reply
        1. Northerner

          Et tu, Shadoo?

          March 18, 2013 at 8:46 am Reply
  7. Mitty

    Only ones that can break the Tech flaw is CCP, and they won't because their devs have RL interests in their alliances+RL friends that hold all the Tech and want the Tech Charade to continue as long as possible.

    Some still have mortgages to pay off. :)

    March 17, 2013 at 11:24 pm Reply
    1. dontbsplez

      I'd believe what your are saying. However CCP gets it's mortgages paid from both sides of the fence and you are assuming the lack of any real content in nullsec won't hurt actual subscription income from the game.. which of course it will as it stifles new alliance growth and even the large rich nullsec alliance players get bored with meaningless war games everyone else makes fun of. So eventually CCP has to kill this farce or lose subscriptions. Question is when.

      March 18, 2013 at 4:13 am Reply
    2. Zappadoo

      Perhaps an unconventional solution might be for alliances and corporations to provide a better source of income assistance to their lowly members to stop them from buying isk?

      May 22, 2013 at 10:45 pm Reply
  8. FA grunt

    Sov mechanics is not the issue its power blocks feeling confront able where they are and what they have. All that needs to happen is one simple feature. Create a ship that can mine aka jack moon minerals under alliance noses. It's going to have to triage to do it but this will create drama fight escalations and take away power from big blocks….may even throw the coalitions into termoil. This is what will save eve not the huge revamps that CCP is trying to do and change the mechanics of the game entirely

    March 17, 2013 at 11:37 pm Reply
    1. CommanderBolt

      Not under normal mechanics. It would take too long to be worthwhile. Also the resource never runs out, so what you just keep pulling your own batch of minerals out?

      You could say this ninja moon mining ship extracts resources from the enemy or at a really fast rate, but then what stops alliances doing this to self made 'pet' alliances just so they get that extra income?

      I like the general idea of stealing moon mins but how could it actually be done?

      March 19, 2013 at 7:52 am Reply
      1. FA grunt

        This is not a normal mexhanic idea it's a new one that's the point. It would be worth while for individuals to take a chance to make isk. The thing about a pet alliance doing that that would be awsome more people out in space more resources on the market so prices of everything moon oriented would go down. Also the thig should have something like a 10 minute triage timer to extract ore so it can be attacked and needs to be defended. Also it should have to like be dead on the moon like 5000 m so if a fleet roams through and sees that ship type they can pounce on it. Another thing that will happen is drama. Imagine a sub group within the hbc or CFC mining a moon that they are trying to cartel. It would collapse the coalitions due to industry fueds. That's the point. They grind is about pride mostly and saying we own this' is where we live now a days with everyone blue.

        March 19, 2013 at 2:04 pm Reply
    2. indy

      wow what an awesome idea, this idea is actually close to perfect,

      there is only one thing i blame for whats happening – a big imbalance between average players and rmt puppetmasters who call the shots in the game – and there is only one thing i blame for that imbalance

      Its an imbalance of interest in the game, on the eves learning curve u only jump up to the top of the line where u have to watch out for the buldozer if u start booting and roll spreadsheets and make isk on market… bottom line is that to stay ingame and stay competitive u either have to have a mental disorder which will make it easier for u to farm missions or rocks or whatever for isk, or u have to get more accounts and learn how to bot…

      a legal (ccp aproed) afk mining bot would sort out all of the issues that i blame for this stagnation in null, dont get me wrong, powerblocks would addapt and there would still be bloobs but more line players would stay subbed and there would be slightly less reasons to join a powerblock, atm ppl join them out of necessity, soon the most fun u will be able to have in eve will be a skirmish with a friendly alliance for gfs, sov warfare will be a feature of good old days…

      March 20, 2013 at 5:42 pm Reply
      1. FA grunt

        I agree totally with your statement we need more people to stand their ground

        March 20, 2013 at 8:36 pm Reply
  9. FA grunt

    This article failed to mention unclaimed and pl role with them

    March 17, 2013 at 11:39 pm Reply
    1. Tutu

      Jesus, yeah he forgot to mention unclaimed. And btw what do Zombie Ninja Space Bears think about all the shit?

      March 18, 2013 at 7:55 am Reply
    2. Unclaimed are just as irrelevant as FA and spacemonkeys to be honest:)

      March 18, 2013 at 5:31 pm Reply
    3. TheStaafsak

      because unclaimed is a fail on itself.

      March 18, 2013 at 7:00 pm Reply
  10. rabble

    PL is at the beck and call of n3 at the mo whenver n3 cant seem to win they twist the PL nipple

    March 17, 2013 at 11:40 pm Reply
    1. The Observer

      You do realize that the only perma-blue PL has is NCDOT right? Of course they'll help their ONLY +10 brosef.

      March 17, 2013 at 11:29 pm Reply
      1. justanotherscrub

        actually pl and ncdot are officially neutral its just the "no using supers on each other" rule other than that they are fair game to each other

        March 18, 2013 at 2:06 am Reply
        1. whatever

          also no poaching membersd from each other

          March 18, 2013 at 6:07 am Reply
          1. orly?

            So they're basically closeted blues.

            March 18, 2013 at 1:22 pm
    2. Sheeet

      You do realise ncdot has helped PL as much as PL has helped them. They are two of the same. Difference being many in PL believe they are good at Pvp, wich gives an unfortunate ego the size of a moon while more commonly having the cock of a squirrel. Ncdot are very good, but they are subtle about it for the most part, ofc granted there's always a few cocks where ever you go, this is just one reason that I would credit ncdot over PL.

      March 18, 2013 at 3:43 am Reply
      1. eve sucks

        they are both terrible as is shown by their membership of the blue jizz ring

        April 27, 2013 at 9:59 pm Reply
  11. Varesk

    PL is very much an active member of the HBC. PL has alts in TEST that FC for them. We have run in to them during our time down south. Shadoo uses his Matlow character all the time. If it wasnt for PL FCing TEST, TEST would have had about 2 trillion in losses last month.

    March 17, 2013 at 11:42 pm Reply
  12. Internet Lawyer

    I don't get it poetic – Is this an Opinion Piece ? carefully researched journalism backed up by interviews with PL leadership ? Propaganda ?

    Cos whatever else it is – its complete and utter horse shit. What planet are you living on ?

    March 17, 2013 at 11:58 pm Reply
    1. Actual Lawyer

      Even if it is an opinion piece, I think it raises valid points. When you look at the macro-level resource distribution in EVE, it is clear CFC has ability to affect PL's revenue stream negatively to a larger degree than the HBC's ability to benefit PL. Even a cursory look at EVE's political polarization manifests the appearance of the eve elite guarding and securing their assets/income at the expense of gameplay. It's almost emergent in the sense that it mirrors real life. In much of the west, we have a political elite that cautiously protects its resources while employing political rhetoric to maintain a political stalemate/the status quo. Shadoo's piece was barely veiled elitism and plutarchistic arrogance.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:30 am Reply
  13. ex imp

    If PL aint HBC how come they wield so much power that montolio listens? When montolio wants war Shampoo simply said no and montolio left for a bit. They basically got EVE by the neck write now… A war that could of happened between the HBC and CFC why didnt it happen? Because of fucking Shadoo

    March 18, 2013 at 12:04 am Reply
    1. ex imp

      right now*

      March 18, 2013 at 12:04 am Reply
    2. Because the HBC can't win a war against the CFC without PL on their side. And if the HBC were to declare on the CFC, they'd likely end up fighting PL too. PL would likely flip allegiances to protect their assets.

      Montolio is not so much listening to PL, he really can't make a major move without them.

      March 18, 2013 at 9:03 am Reply
      1. LOL

        Debatable if they can win with PL on their side as well …

        March 18, 2013 at 9:05 am Reply
        1. Sure. Goonswarm and the rest of the CFC are the powerhouse right now.

          March 18, 2013 at 7:57 pm Reply
    3. old timer

      its not that simple ,

      shadoo said no , majority of TEST high officers said no , and about 50% of TEST grunts said no…
      not to mention that other HBC alliances were also quite interrogative.

      as mittens says , when you want a war , you have to build the story first. i guess the FA/TEST drama wasn't a good enough story…

      March 18, 2013 at 10:37 pm Reply
  14. Highsec Perspective

    Pandemic Legion really complicate things because frankly, they are the coalition whores of the game. Somehow (well, we all sort of know how…history yo), they've managed to become friends with all three of the major coalitions in the game: CFC, HBC and N3. That's pretty incredible IMO (considering N3 really don't like CFC/HBC), I don't think I've ever seen a single alliance sleeping in the beds of three (antagonistic) coalitions at the same time (I'm going to avoid all the "who's sucking whose cock" & "who's whose pets" BS). Just about the only ppl they don't seem to have butt friendly relations with are the RUS in Stain, CVA & Co and SOLAR.

    March 18, 2013 at 12:14 am Reply
    1. Highsec Perspective

      IMO, the side PL takes in any future war will be the winning side, so that they will be able to protect their Tech holdings; they have sufficiently bro relations with CFC, HBC or N3 to ensure that if any of these coalitions win against the other, they will allow PL to retain their tech (probably). The best thing for PL then is a slow start to a war (maybe war-games are precisely this? PL judging abilities of CFC and HBC to decide who to ally with in future?), so they can figure out which side will probably win. The worst thing that could happen to PL would be a quick explosion in hostilities, where the outcome and risks of war is unclear, and they are forced to make a quick/knee-jerk decision under the duress of war.

      TL;DR PL are the top coalition whores in the game, in bed with N3, CFC, HBC, hence they complicate nullsec politics. They will join whichever side wins, if that's an option for them; they need a slow build-up to war to asses who will win (war-games?), cool blitzkrieg-style war is anathema to them.

      P.S. It forced me to split up the comment.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:15 am Reply
      1. orly?

        This has been PL's objective for quite some time… either get on the winning side or make the side you pick the winning side.

        They're trying very hard to avoid being the alliance everyone despises. I think at the Grunt level they're getting there quick. At the upper echelons not so much. Too much isk in play.

        March 18, 2013 at 1:46 pm Reply
      2. BntyHunter

        Thing is, look at why PL stands by each.

        They need CFC for stable Tech and revenue, as long as CFC is in power Pl gets there huge cut.
        They need HBC because HBC wants war and everytime CFC realizes it gets closer PL acts as "3rd party" and negotiates there "Fee" to add a few more moons so that CFC can have 60% of something rather than 100% of nothing.

        N3/NCDOT are really the ones PL would chose to be true friends with and TBH they dont really need us, they just like us. Also N3+PL would take out CFC and HBC separately. Where as CFC and HBC are basically clones and wouldnt be much beyond meatshields.

        I do think if SOV system+moons was changed today Pl would chose N3 as partners, grab all the new wealth and make a new coalition that ran shit.

        As long as CFC remains scared to death of PL because they know N3+them alone would wreck them, let alone HBC/Almost all eve, PL will continue to gain more and more moons. This is part of the reason IMO CFC needs to keep grabbing SOV, they understand to survive they either need vast income as PL is a hungry beast, or they need a lot more numbers or both.

        This means CFc needs more space to gift to pets. This is why CFC sent Fazor to help SOLAR, if they help SOLAR live then SOLAR owes them one and would side with CFC. If they fail and SOLAR breaks up, hey at least CFC helped and they will get a huge load of Allies, even good PVPing ones.

        Also CFC is securing BL as there "Mercs" meaning soon BL will be at there beckon call. Meaning PL will basically own them as well.

        PL is the guy who walks into a Mexican standoff between 3 guys all pointing guns at each other and PL aims at 2 of them, everyone is scared if PL goes against them its game over.

        But really as bad as I hate it, it was genius work by Pl and looking back this has been the event they have built towards. Largest SC fleet+3 a coalition backing them up NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO.

        It is ultimate metagame ending.

        March 18, 2013 at 9:49 pm Reply
        1. Highsec Perspective

          Basically this, the ultimate meta gaming yep. PL are bros with N3 out of past friendship (NC.) and earned respect (from Nulli). PL are bros with CFC out of economic interests. PL are bros with HBC (out of a need for a meatshield to threaten CFC, there might also be a degree of respect, appreciation built up here). That's my take on it anyways.

          March 20, 2013 at 4:20 am Reply
        2. Highsec Perspective

          Shit, forgot to read the entirety of your post BntyHunter. One thing I disagree with you here is CFC needing more sov. to one day challenge PL. CFC don't need sov because they have players is basically what I'm arguing (and you seem to partly agree). My reasoning follows as so: Proportionally, elite players/organizations like alliances (elite as in, high SP, high isk, high skill vs. average) gradually lose their edge over time vs. weaker/newer players/organizations, i.e. time is on the side of the "weak" due to the law of diminishing returns.

          The most obvious example is skill points. So, for example, an elite NC. player with 60 million skill points has 60x (roughly) more SP than a two week old player (or w/e, rough figures). After three months though, that NC. player might now have 65 million SP while the newer player has earned their way to 5 million SP. The NC. pilot now only has 13x the SP of that newer pilot, and the gap will continue to narrow. Their advantage has declined, and whereas the newbie at 2 weeks old had no chance in hell vs. a 60 million SP player, after three months, with 5 million SP, that newbie's chances of fighting and killing the NC. pilot has exponentially increased; while the NC. is getting close to maxing out on SP, the newer pilot is just getting started.

          The same applies to SCaps. PL (1600 pilots) are probably getting close to maxing out how many SCaps they can put on the field, whereas the CFC (20,000+ pilots) are just getting started. Even without no new sov, and even if the CFC earn less per month than PL, a point will be reached where CFC can put more SCaps on the field than PL has ppl logged on. This is a virtual certainty over time (so long as CFC don't do anything fucking retarded). We're already seeing it happen at the capitals level (masses of "Slowcats"). So yea, CFC don't need more sov, pilots are the ultimate resource in EVE, as long as they have more (and provided they aren't all operating on full retard mode), they win the long-term game.

          That's a good point though, more sov. = more renters/pets = more players. I suppose so, guess I agree with you in the end. 😛

          I think in the long run, these large-scale inclusive alliances of masses/blobs of newer players that gradually develop/grow/get better (contra "l33t" closed, exclusive pvp groups) will continue to control most of nullsec, as long as those players can be motivated to play (i.e. have content, at a certain point, an equilibrium/status quo may become self-defeating/boring).

          March 20, 2013 at 4:42 am Reply
          1. Highsec Perspective

            TL;DR: CFC is gradually getting stronger faster than PL, we will reach a military turning point in nullsec EVE where PL might become subordinate to CFC – really depends on how their relationship with HBC and N3 pan out and how those coalitions develop. Long-term, all else equal, inclusive groups (large blobs of newer players) will dominate nullsec vs. exclusive groups.

            March 20, 2013 at 4:54 am
    2. EXE

      I find it funny that you call N3 a major coalition when it's just a gathering of bitter has beens who can barely fill a single fleet for a timer when the two coalitions you compare them with easily fill 3-4 with subcaps.

      March 18, 2013 at 1:00 am Reply
      1. Jakes

        As oppose to EXE that manages to put a whole 10 dudes in the avg. CFC, and HBC fleet.

        March 18, 2013 at 1:29 am Reply
        1. EXE

          How relevant are numbers from a single alliance when the discussion concerns coalitions? Fact is, N3 would have trouble matching eurogoons or spaceviolence in a war. Sure, count in RA or PL and it's another thing, but you talk about N3 as a coalition that could be compared with HBC or CFC when they would be smashed by a single goon SIG if they piss on the wrong lawn.

          Just face it, HBC and CFC rule nullsec together with PL. The rest live in their corners at our grace until they annoy us to much, someone more friendly want the space, or they gather enough isk, friends and competense to to do something about it.

          CVA, N3, DD and other groups of the same caliber need to either accept their faith or set aside their differences and work as one if they want to change things. Make no mistake, if the power balance get threatened by outsiders then you will see the HBC, CFC & PL temporarily turn into the Honey Fuck Legion to defend what is ours.

          March 18, 2013 at 5:18 am Reply
          1. Yawn

            EXE scrub Further cementing his image of being a fucktard I see. Worthless little piss pot.

            March 18, 2013 at 1:54 pm
          2. BntyHunter

            Your in a dreamworld.

            NCDOT+Nulli vs Goons alone and its so not even close its funny. They would Rape GSF so hard it would be hilarious.

            When Tribute happened GSF brought an Avg of 20% of fleets. Dotbros brought 30% and killed the CFC fleet 75% of the time.

            GSF has horrible FC`s.[Except Laz] They dont have half the participation you would think, they are easily discouraged and basically fat and lazy. TBH we lost to hoardes of Lawn/Rzr/FA/TNT and the other 15k. But GSf alone would get ass raped any way you cut it.

            Now that Red has filled in a lot of numbers we lacked then an as a whole isnt as good as NCDOT but much better than GSF, this battle would be a lot different. Not to mention ,Scrap Iron would come with us and 401k and Whyso and all the other groups we have fought with.

            N3 may have started with 6k members, but now we have friends an number 12k strong when we need to. When we fought CFC we peaked at 6500 vs the 25k of CFC, and at that point doubling our numbers means exponentially better results as the only battles we lost we were simply 5-6:1 outnumbered and there Alpha alone would have popped anything instantly in Drakes and there is simply no counter to that except to have 1:3 odds which we almost never lost a fight with.

            When we get done fighting SOLAR and we hit CFC, we might not be able to break there timers but we could shutdown the entire Tribute/Vale area for ANY AND ALL RATTING/PVE/ISK.

            I hope we get the chance. Last time CFC went into hiding 2 weeks in. And it wasnt till we lost 1/3rd our fighters they came back to life.

            March 18, 2013 at 9:59 pm
      2. Sheeet

        EXE Why would they need to fill a fleet when Dotbros slaughtered cfc 9 out of 10 fights that were fought, while being significantly outnumbered. Fact being thought N3 fills numerous fleets, all depends on what is needed, & they tend to fight seperately at least initially to get fights. As an example nulli and bros will form and bait, or RA not in N3 will form and act as bait, or ncdot forms 100-200 man subcap fleets on there own and can bait. A scrub like you is unlikely ever to understand gfs or the multiple aspects/concepts of Pvp. That's why HBC/cfc have to form mass blobs, they can't do fuck all unless they do that. Again dotbros war proved as much, and the numerous LOL deployments of incompitant cfc alliances more recently further prove that. Not quite sure how much more nieve you could be to be fair EXE.

        March 18, 2013 at 3:54 am Reply
        1. War

          Well, not long ago we kind of lost the war in the north… And it never looked like we had a chance to win it, even with the occasional better kill ratio.

          March 18, 2013 at 7:19 am Reply
      3. Tia_85

        Ha ha you sound like a typical CFC grunt.

        News flash, being able to field 3-4 full subcap fleets during a timer doesn't make u good at Eve.

        March 18, 2013 at 9:14 am Reply
      4. FA Grunt

        Having just fought N3, they are definetly not bitter has beens, and they definetly can fill fleets. We all talk trash about our enemies but blindly labeling them as such is incorrect.

        N3 are very good, their average pilot is incredibly competent and skilled. Sure they will make the occasional mistake, but they do know what they're doing.

        March 18, 2013 at 2:12 pm Reply
        1. Fatwa

          N3's average frontovik is made of no better material than anybody else's. The difference is that the main entities in N3 have been engaged in hard-fought, tooth-and-nail conflict for the better part of the last year. I don't mean "get a bunch of supers together and kick over ihubs nigh-uncontested" – I mean forcing the CFC to stop scheduling major ops in their ostensibly prime TZ through sheer puissance, going blow-for-blow with PL in Delve, and other similar experiences. Coming off of these, they've gone headlong into the drone regions, where SOLAR constantly reminds N3 that they cannot be taken lightly, otherwise sharp reversals ensue.

          Hard pounding has made for good steel. The only other option was breaking, after all.

          On top of that, the coalition has a surprisingly broad and deep pool of quality FCs to pull upon. There is no Shadoo or Vee that completely eclipses all other commanders and relegates everybody else to the second, third string. Vince Draken or Progodlegend; Canaris Roshaak or Dark Razer; there's a flexible offering of eminently competent FCs to keep the ball rolling. You combine sharpened pilots with a large pool of quality commanders, and the end result is something capable.

          March 18, 2013 at 7:00 pm Reply
          1. BntyHunter

            Um the Avg NCDOT member has been fighting hard fought tooth and nail for the last 3-4 Years.

            We do have vast fields of great FC`s who would be front lining anywhere.

            But what is a great pilot in Eve if not a fast reaction person with tons of exp to predict what will happen and need to happen? Also mix this with 60 mil SP+ and thats what NCDOT is.

            Nulli is younger but on a similar path as BL. Sorry but BL was nothing special 2 years ago, just guys who loved to fight. I still remember them losing Elo`s Titan in a stupid move. So while BL have made a name for themselves IM othey are only older than Nulli and more Exp. The rest will come.

            Also BL emulated those of us they fought beside and Nulli is now doing so. Also they are becoming on there own a solid group of very reliable fighters.

            The Solar fight is just getting more fun, when they hit us its awesome. In a way NCDOT loves to get punched in the mouth as we know the fight is on and our opponent is with us.

            I agree N3 has been forged over hard fighting but NCDOT/Tri has been doing this literally for 6 years, always outnumbered fighting NC+PL+BoB+MC+CFC+Ruskis and basically every tough group there has been.

            Most groups with this many vets gets soft and falls apart, and in a way we have turned over 700 Pilots to PL over our time, which is way to much and shows me as guys get older some just want SC`s to drop and others still love the Subcap wins, but NCDOT has truly seen more talent in Eve than almost any group in history.

            March 18, 2013 at 10:08 pm
        2. BntyHunter

          While you are my enemy this is cool of you. I had a spy i nFA and a lot of the guys [1 in 20] were eager solid PVPers, it always baffled me why they didnt go to better places.

          Tell me the truth why do you stay in FA? It is obvious the leader is a tool who bought a toon and as a 4 week old threw a coup…Are you really happy there? Would you not be happier with the groups getting respect they deserve and ll the other bonuses? Its not like Nulli/N3 doesnt replace ships, hey we also replace T3`s, something you guys rarely fly, you guys get caracals while leaders get SC`s.

          Thanks for being honest.

          March 18, 2013 at 10:12 pm Reply
      5. I dint think ppl are gonna listen to you, you went from sucking cock of test to cfc, stop breathing pls, i can smell the mix of cheese and sperm all over here-.-.

        March 18, 2013 at 5:13 pm Reply
        1. xxxxx

          You mad faggot?

          March 18, 2013 at 7:26 pm Reply
    3. BobFromIt

      Its called being a mercenary – deal with it!

      March 18, 2013 at 8:06 am Reply
      1. LOL

        PL stopped being mercenaries in 2011 buddy … what game are you playing?

        March 18, 2013 at 9:10 am Reply
    4. eve pilot

      wrong solar has indirect CFC support and i expect solar to be offered CFC membership to stop them being removed by N3 so CFC has a buffer between their naff alliances and N3

      March 18, 2013 at 8:31 am Reply
      1. idiots!

        Solar wont want to be in the cfc lmao you people are so stupid dont speak

        March 18, 2013 at 7:16 pm Reply
        1. Fiberton

          Mactep will never bow to one knee to Mittens. He is a Soldier not a pet.

          March 19, 2013 at 9:07 am Reply
          1. Yawn

            Mactep won't like bowing to mittens, and you would k my become incompetent and enjoy the game less for doing so. Mactep is a soldier, I respect solar and pitty them, as Mactep over the last several month from the point if the dotbros war has made absolutely retarded decisions, wich you can't help felling sorry for the pets and rest of solar that he's led to this point. If he was a true soldier he would of realised the enemy of your enemy is your friend, and attacked cfc with Dotbros. The gaurs tee there would of been cfc not being a le to take anything or at worse eventually taking tribute, by nothing else. Was even said that cfc just from fighting dotbros the fraction of there size had to seriously consider after 4 odd months wheather they were going to move into vale, as leadership was exghusts and grunts weeks prior to the fall of tribute were at an all time low. Upon morale a d fleet numbers. Only when evoke chicken shifted out of their space did they take the call to advance into vale.

            March 19, 2013 at 10:59 pm
      2. Lel.

        Implying that SOLAR already has that support in form of FA and Razor.



        March 18, 2013 at 10:10 pm Reply
      3. Geth

        SOLAR prefer to lose all the territories than to join CFC/HBC/N3.

        March 19, 2013 at 12:45 am Reply
        1. anonymous

          They didn't have a problem receiving CFC help in Geminate and the help if you can call it that they got from Razor and FA

          March 19, 2013 at 2:25 am Reply
        2. Fiberton

          Mactep is actually not a bad person but rather believes deeply about what he wants. Solar is a strong Alliance and many should not forget that In the end most will come together again. This will happen eventually :).

          March 19, 2013 at 9:12 am Reply
          1. Highsec Perspective

            Definitely, it's probably unconscionable for MACTEP to even consider joining the CFC. Some dislike MACTEPs actions in Geminate against NC., but I think I understand why he did it, SOLAR was taking advantage of a decent opportunity, and NC. probably would have done the same.

            Also of note, a few weeks into SOLARCOs cascade, SOLAR FLEET and WING themselves are suffering absolutely no defections. That's hardcore yo!

            March 20, 2013 at 4:52 am
  15. Jakes

    Enlighten us, I don't know anything about unclaimed, and where they stand with CFC, HBC, or N3.

    March 18, 2013 at 12:50 am Reply
    1. Collaborateurs

      Unclaimed were the pets of -a- until -a- got hammered so like good pets they rolled onto their backs to get their belly scratched by their new HBC/CFC masters. Bitches of the highest order and should be treated as such.

      March 18, 2013 at 10:07 am Reply
      1. CBJL

        Unclaimed didn't exist until Red Overlord disbanded numbnuts!

        March 18, 2013 at 10:10 am Reply
        1. Tut Tut

          Exactly! Dick face.

          March 21, 2013 at 10:56 am Reply
    2. FA grunt

      Their pl renters

      March 21, 2013 at 6:32 pm Reply
  16. HBC loves cack

    Who gives a shit about any of this you fuckin nerd

    March 18, 2013 at 1:06 am Reply
  17. PL guy

    This article = "Hey guys maybe if we make fun of PL some more because they are rich and we are poor that will bait a fight"

    March 18, 2013 at 2:24 am Reply
  18. Yawn

    PL used to be good are now shit.
    Resilience as an example used to be a compitant highly active corp that thrived in NCdot. Since moving to PL they have become inactive, full of spanners with big egos but small balls, thinking their good due to having a PL tag wich serves a husk of what it used to mean. How the mighty have fallen. This is just an example of a corp that is a shadow of its former self by joining PL. got fat, lazy and only good for doing the most simple tasks in eve wich is flying a super capital in a fleet situation.

    March 18, 2013 at 4:04 am Reply
  19. Dave from PL

    you hit the nail on the head

    So what?

    What are you going to do about it?

    Nothing as always, because none of you have any balls you moaning faggots

    PL will remain on top, same as it ever was

    March 18, 2013 at 6:36 am Reply
    1. LOL

      top of what?

      March 18, 2013 at 9:12 am Reply
      1. Yawn

        Top of the isk making, and super blob pile. Most deffinately not the top of the Pvp pile. There are certainly better alliances when it comes to subcap Pvp than PL. these days. I mean to keep PL from dipping into high inactivity they had to let in a fuckton of scrubs. So ofc the same quality of years past will no longer be there.

        March 18, 2013 at 1:59 pm Reply
    2. orly?

      PL is in the worst position they have ever been in.
      PL used to be the roaming death-rogues of the galaxy-skilled mercs who… if you need them and you could find them… maybe you could hire… PL… (queue theme music).
      Now PL has responsibilities… it's almost like Hannibal went out and got married and had 16 rugrats.

      March 18, 2013 at 1:44 pm Reply
    3. Fletch

      Top of what exactly? You suck the most cock and you have the biggest list of blues. If that makes you top then congratulations you won.

      March 18, 2013 at 2:33 pm Reply
    4. CommanderBolt

      haha funny response :)

      You guys still have good players, and you have even more income and supers than I remember. However you have lost that spark.
      Make me happy and win the alliance tournament. Or else

      March 19, 2013 at 7:46 am Reply
    5. Tired

      What has being on top of the Tech pile got you?

      Fat. entitled and tame.

      Three quotes from Shadoo:

      "I think the reality is that we, the OLD players, have now played this game for 10 years and too many people know how to bore an attacker out of invading you, or how to most effectively crush a noob lead assault. The ladder is too high for new blood to accomplish anything…"

      "EVE is now so polarized that the only war soon left to be fought would be one most of us [EvE vets] would not come out of still playing EVE."

      "So what do we do while we wait for people to get SO BORED they're prepared to end their EVE "life" fighting a war no one wants to start, which will last longer than most reading this post are willing to commit to this game?"

      If these quotes really represent what the vets and command of PL, HBC and CFC believe then this game is better off without the lot of you and your suffocating presence. Hit the biomass button and make room for new blood and find some other game to kill.

      March 19, 2013 at 4:42 pm Reply
      1. Yawn

        It's it what most vets think at all. Iv played since 05 and been in too many sov wars. . . And yes I see his point loud and clear, but it does it cyna he the Fact that coalitions/alliances have fallen in the current sov mechanics, and even though they do need changing, they are not the biggest issue here. It's those people such as mittens/ shadoo being too comftable, to fat and lazy to bother playing the game for real objectives, content etc. they are happy to milk the game as long as they can for their ingame and real life wallets. That's the stone cold truth of the matter.

        March 19, 2013 at 10:38 pm Reply
  20. LOL.

    and yet another moron who thinks waiting for ccp will fix this.
    you need to man up and fight if you want it changed.

    March 18, 2013 at 7:33 am Reply
    1. orly?

      If only CCP would undock in something juicy…

      March 19, 2013 at 1:32 pm Reply
  21. Alifikduzimir

    Well analyzed, Stanziel.
    Letting PL have some moons in the north was a smart move by mittens, thus keeping them on a leash, ensuring boredom…

    March 18, 2013 at 7:43 am Reply
  22. TheRagingTurtle

    Ah bugger it release the Jove Armada, lets start a fresh.

    March 18, 2013 at 8:03 am Reply
  23. eve pilot

    if anything pandemic legion seem to be sliding more to N3 coalition than anywhere else atm.but yes pandemic are less fighters and more accountants these days more interested in accumulating tech wealth than PvP but this seems the way for HBC and CFC alliances.but things will change once solar is out of the picture and N3 are knocking on the CFC door asking them to come out to play.and because pandemic and N3 are pals this puts pandemic in a strange position as what to do and who to support.and if whats more is likely that N3 and CFC go to war than CFC vs HBC montolio wont miss the oppertunity to side with N3 to hammer the CFC and pandemic can opt out and sit on the sidelines saying nothing counting their tech wealth and hotdropping the odd carrier doing hordes as seems to be their way these days so they can stll pretend their l33t pvp pilots.

    March 18, 2013 at 8:20 am Reply
    1. Guy

      It's going to be a while before n3 makes any significant moves towards the CFC. They still have a few more regions to clean up and that's likely to take at least a couple of months, mainly because a lot of them are already burned out on structure grinds. n3 would also need to build up some more numbers to present a serious threat to the CFC. You might be waiting several months for the big CFC/n3 thing to happen.

      PL has been hopping on the bandwagon ever since the DRF so, like the article says, they're going to side with the winners and maintain their income.

      March 18, 2013 at 8:41 am Reply
      1. LOL

        ' […] they're going to side with the winners and maintain their income.'


        March 18, 2013 at 9:09 am Reply
  24. Eirene

    I've fought CFC, HBC and Solar. Solar were the only real enemies, hard, experienced adversaries.
    As soon as N3 forms an Coalition and they can fight 1:2 outnumbered, they will kill the carebear coalitions.

    Other version:
    As soon as Test becomes greedy for Technetium, they will have lot's of unlikely allies. All of them having some grudges with CFC.

    March 18, 2013 at 9:00 am Reply
  25. J Black

    This should be called," Poetic Diarrhea", lol! Think of what they said about NC. ooOo they would never leave the CFC, they make so much from the technetium income they will never bite the hand that feeds them. And……. they left with "Dueces", and a fuck you very much. PL is all about killing and having fun. You think they give 2 shits about CFC fucking moons and you're out of touch reality? I think you're taking the space ship game a little to serious madam. We log on to make people like you cry after you saved all you jewing isk to by a titan and assume some role in alliance because you own a super cap. I can almost taste you're fucking tears ^_^

    March 18, 2013 at 9:10 am Reply
    1. Rob Zarodnie

      PL isn't all about killing and having fun, the do care about the moons, and thats why we are not at war right now. Shadoo has been an isk over content leader for some time, isk is all that matters to him, if that means he is NIP'd to 75% of null, then he's NIP'd to 75% on null, and there is no getting around that. Shamis orzoz made PL something to be respected, and Shadoo has made PL a joke since he left.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:34 pm Reply
    2. Fletch

      NC. We're kicked from OTEC they did not leave. They had a great chance to strike the CFC while it was in delve but did not have the bollocks. When Goons returned the inevitable happened.
      PL care about anyone with enough supers to spoil their fun witch is why they have such an extensive list of blues and non hot drop deals.

      March 18, 2013 at 1:40 pm Reply
  26. iskbot#1337

    "can we agree that there is an HBC. There is a CFC. And there is a Pandemic Legion, who sort of sit in-between the two "

    We can agree that there is CFC and a OTEC ally called PL and nearly the rest of EVE as blue.

    March 18, 2013 at 9:51 am Reply
  27. superpartiakurwo

    pandemic legion = test = goons = nc with dot
    there is no difference, when moons are in danger they are all working together one big ball-less napfest

    pl dont have balls to take goon sov, nc with dot dont have balls to take test sov, they are too affraid they would loose.

    March 18, 2013 at 10:11 am Reply
    1. Low-sec Best-sec

      I remember a 40 man SNUFD fleet came to finish off a tech tower in Enaluri. They all showed up apart from PL, 5(ish) separate fleets. Intel was that they were still pinging for MORE as local was heading over 700, lol.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:22 am Reply
  28. Eve needs fixing

    Fix null sec sov grind 1st….
    you guys talk as if it will take a day of 2 to bring the CFC on their knees.
    It will take years… showing up everyday for 2 years in a row ? attending structure grind fleets / pvp fleets ?
    Think before you spit out trash.

    Small alliance's will fall and those sov grinds are already horrible, now try a big alliance or a coaltion…
    The people spitting out trash to start and wipe goons out have no idea what retarded amounts of efforts are needed.
    You can dream that war and dream it might take a few fleets and losses, reality is that you need trillions and trillions of isk to maintain this war.

    Test without PL…right…
    N3 versus CFC ? right…
    Test + N3 + PL – now we can talk
    lets pretend we start today – we report back in 2 years and look how many systems have fallen in CFC space.
    Most wont even play Eve anymore rofl.
    Most are pilots are at the doctor asking for new eyeballs as they look to blue.

    Fix the damn sov grind –
    fix the damn tech moons – make it ring mining so we the people earn the isk also, not only the higher ups in command plexing 15 accounts and driving a BMW.

    March 18, 2013 at 10:51 am Reply
    1. Guy

      "Most wont even play Eve anymore rofl. "

      That actually sounds like a good thing, instead of having the game run by the same old bitter vets who have been playing the same game for more than half a decade.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:22 am Reply
    2. Rob Zarodnie

      It actually doesn't take that long, look at how fast Solar's space is falling, and -A-'s before that, and raiden/wn/ncdot's before that, and xdeaths before that, all of that space has fallen in the last two years, it all combines to much more space then that of CFC, or HBC. I'm not sure why anyone is implying the reason for not fighting is anything other then what it really is…… the leaderships don't want to risk losing what they already have, so we're stuck in a forever NIP/NAP. Leadership will keep making fake budget reports to explain isk that disappears.

      Please PL, and GSF tell us more about your open books, and how these books could never say anything other then the truth.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:14 pm Reply
      1. Srsly

        -A-, strangely absent during 90% of the fights. Raiden/WN, WN vaporized cause of no activity, and Raiden was severely outnumbered. Same with NCdot. The blue donut needs to die, but get the facts straight before you use them as an argument. Oh, and Poetic Stanziel…'re still a crybaby and an over-windbag who loves to think he understands people. Stop posting, and try playing, you might learn a few things.

        March 19, 2013 at 1:44 pm Reply
    3. orly?

      I love when people cry about how many structures they and their bloated fleets have to grind. It's really pretty sad. There ARE other ways to get what you want from hostile takeovers, you just don't want to put in the actual WORK required to do it. So… instead of making war on people's internet spaceships you make war on their internet static objects.

      March 18, 2013 at 1:41 pm Reply
    4. CommanderBolt

      "asking for a new eyeball" Lmao!

      March 19, 2013 at 7:48 am Reply
  29. guestine

    eve neeeds a third leader to step forward so people can get their shit together behind them and start burning down of nullsec,there alot of ppl who wouldnt mind killing them all off they just dont have anyone to rally around.
    some people like me would gladly login for 2 years to kill them all even it meant grindsov u know why? because it would cause them tears and grief taking their shit…taking shit from them not gainign shit…see the differance here?

    the fact cfc and hbc dont feel that way proves they are now carebears that dont deserve the toys they have,its the natural order.
    Its their time to die they are soft fat bloated lazy.

    March 18, 2013 at 11:40 am Reply
  30. PCP_Bananaman

    Wow, thank god you wrote this article. I mean the WHOLE thing, here in March, like months after this all kicked off, and everyone cared. Lucky for us you are here to point out the blindingly obvious, just with so many more words.

    Christ, Shadoo practically said this whole article with a tweet back when this was relevant.
    Poetic Stanziel, the Perez Hilton of New Eden

    (and that is Christ (expletive curse) , (comma) Shadoo not Christ Shadoo (the deity)

    March 18, 2013 at 12:28 pm Reply
  31. WWW

    Dear CCP,

    Make Technetium only available in moons in wormhole system moons.
    Make sov null jump off a cliff for everyone else's amusement.

    [email protected]

    March 18, 2013 at 12:49 pm Reply
    1. cockring

      take tech out of the game completely, and replace it with nothing, tech 2 ships require double the resources to build then their t1 counterparts. problem solved

      April 27, 2013 at 10:01 pm Reply
  32. Just Bob

    You realize that test and tribal band are massive alliances correct? And because of that hole massive amounts of space, compared to the small alliances pictured.

    Farms and fields will not encourage members to fight.

    March 18, 2013 at 1:09 pm Reply
  33. Fletch

    Why do so many people actually buy that broken Sov bullshit.
    None of these cunts complained when they wiped out one isolated foe after another and ground their way through so much space in countless one sided campaigns.
    It's only now a war is on the horizon where the outcome is uncertain that all of a sudden the sov mechanic is broken.
    As we speak N3/CFC are quite happily taking space off Solar using this so called broken mechanic.
    The big coalitions were formed for a reason, the people in them don't like losing, more so the people who lead them.
    The people pulling the strings have simply to much to loose and will make any excuse or back room deal to avoid doing so.

    March 18, 2013 at 2:00 pm Reply
    1. Hic

      Just a little notice…N3/CFC? Hoping that is a typo because there is no way i would fly along those CFC faggots, instead i see some brainless FA caps getting blown up by N3…

      March 19, 2013 at 5:42 am Reply
  34. Merchantus

    First off, GENTS has been loyal to the CFC (at least from my grunt-level perspective).

    Second, CCP doesn't need to change anything. How often, since SOV came to be, has there been a large coalition that people thought couldn't be taken down? Since I've been playing (3 yrs) I've seen NC, IT, and the big Russian coalition (can't remember the name) take over huge swaths of null, hold for a few weeks/months, then crumble.

    I'm sure the CFC will probably fall apart at some point. Don't know when or how, but it will. Such is the way of large empires.

    March 18, 2013 at 2:47 pm Reply
    1. Marcus Malek3

      How often in the last three years have you seen 75% of nullsec in a NIP agreement? never? oh….

      How often did IT, NC, other Russian block that you have no idea what your talking about how they wouldn't take part in sov. warfare again? never? oh….

      News flash NC, IT, BoB, were never as big as CFC, yet alone CFC, and HBC who have blatantly they will never go to war because Shadoo told them (for some idiotic reason people bought it), that it would take 2 years to finish.

      March 18, 2013 at 3:19 pm Reply
    2. dreamer.

      Yes its poor wording but I think the author is thinking of the time when Gents began to build up next to test under its wings. Gents is a member of CFC and have stayed that way. Test on the other hand left CFC to start its own HBC. and from that perspective they mean. PL got as mutch loyalty to HBC as GENTS does to HBC … == NONE

      March 18, 2013 at 3:31 pm Reply
      1. Lake_EVE

        Dreamer's not far off, but I thought I'd share some context (I'm the founder of GENTS).

        GENTS will forever be grateful to TEST in general and Montolio in particular for their contributions at the very start in Fountain. We invested heavily in the sub-coalition "FountainCo", which was in turn key to our adventures holding sov in Delve. But when shit got real in VFK we realized just how far away we were from the core of the CFC and dropped our Delve holdings to contribute to the anti-siege up in Deklein. Since then fate has taken us further and further from TEST (Cloud Ring was close at first, then Branch, and now Vale) and meanwhile TEST has distanced itself further and further from Goons, eventually forming the HBC proper.

        I don't actually think it's a particularly apt analogy for the current PL/TEST relationship, except in so much as we once appeared (and in fact were) quite tightly linked with TEST but have since grown apart.

        P.S. It seems en24 changes comment systems more often than I comment, so here's yet another account.

        March 18, 2013 at 7:34 pm Reply
    3. Huh? I don't comment on Gent loyalty to the CFC. All I wrote was that PL loyalty to the HBC is about the same as Gent loyalty to the HBC … which is about none.

      March 18, 2013 at 7:54 pm Reply
  35. Bloke

    Leaders are just avoiding conflict, unfortunately no change on tech or sov will reallly cure this problem and you cannot blame them, they have huge amounts of assets to protect.
    Changing the sov system or tech will not just make people undock and invade space, it will just make the process easier.Leaders still need to commit and gamble huge amounts of isk to make wars happen and at the moment they do not want to.
    The only real people who can change Null are the middle tier and low tier residents,people who have access to assets and bodies and can push for change. A HBC PL CFC war may take years but if the war came from within the enemy becomes unstable, unpredictable and impossible to quash,
    The easiest way to fix Null is full scale revolution and anarchy.

    March 18, 2013 at 3:24 pm Reply
    1. Marcus Malek3

      That's just it, it wouldn't take years, and thinking it would take years is just foolish.

      March 18, 2013 at 3:30 pm Reply
  36. BitVet

    "One day, CCP will get around to changing how nullsec and sovereignty work. " I'm not so sure about this. As a bittervet who hates TEST for making nullsec available to every idiot who can press "apply to join" , I must admit from CCP perspective it brings higher profit. Nowadays you can see 50k+ people online everyday, it is like 20+% more than 1 year ago, definitely far more paying accounts and higher income.
    The question is, if making rules friendly to casual pilots, is not damaging the game in long term perspective. EVE used to be a phenomenon, harsh unforgiving game which people played for many years just because of it's harshness. EVE is not so unique compared to other games now. Everything can be very easy if you join CFC or HBC. CCP already implemented NPC aggresion change so killing BS with a bomber in anomaly is not likely to happen. Soon they may add function making blue tackling impossible, to protect carebears from awoxing. In long term EVE may die because it loses uniqueness because of CPP who likes short term profit more than making good game universe.

    March 18, 2013 at 3:25 pm Reply
  37. NullSecNoob

    So you have deciphered that players with all the shiny moons do not wish to lose them? Wow you must be some really smart person. That's like complaining about how Bill Gates wont play poker high stakes poker with you and you have no high stakes. Like i said before this CFC alliance, OTECH, and HBC are all well and good but they are not permanent. IF you train skills, gather allies, and make isk you too can become a power block. NO it wont happen in one month, but neither did the RE-conquest of the north and someday it will be RE-conquered by someone in the future.

    March 18, 2013 at 4:45 pm Reply
    1. Tired

      Anyone attempting what you suggest would be destroyed before they could become a real threat and you know it.

      At best they would be allowed to field a few fleets before being stomped into the ground by the Doughnut Masters to relieve the bordom of their line members.

      March 19, 2013 at 4:47 pm Reply
      1. Yawn

        That's why he calls himself nullsec noob, he can't see further than his hand so wouldn't have anything relivant to say about revival or rectification of the doughnut boredom we are currently in.

        March 19, 2013 at 10:32 pm Reply
        1. EXE

          Nullsec is fine as it is, in fact it has never been better. Now we have a reasonable chance to develop nullsec infrastructure and industry so we can get more self sufficient and less dependant on hisec imports.

          Those who own space and moons have earned it. If you want it, then do the work to take it instead of crying to ccp asking for a fastlane to the wonderland.

          March 19, 2013 at 10:52 pm Reply
          1. Tired

            Lift your nose from the trough EXE and look around you, Null is a stagnant, dying pond.

            Tech was broken from day one as was Dominion Sov and now instead of trying for a real change and revival of Null life as they did in the beginning your Lords and Masters seek only better ways to line their pockets and increase their control of you.

            Your a serf working to keep your bloated Overlords in luxury and whats worse your happy with their foot on your neck as long as they keep feeding you the bread of ship replacement and the circuses of tame prearranged no risk play fights.

            You might as well be playing on the test server full time, its about the same amount of effort and risk as your willing to put up with.

            March 20, 2013 at 1:12 pm
  38. PL grunt

    PL official response.. fuck goons.. fuck tech

    March 19, 2013 at 12:58 am Reply
  39. IT Alliance controlled everything TEST currently does, yet people forget how quickly they fell after the 6VDT-H headshot.

    IT Alliance were the largest alliance in the game at the time, but Goonswarm, TEST and others grouped together and took them down. So why are people like this asshole proclaiming "OMG CFC/HBC WILL NEVER FALL UNLESS CCP DOES SOMETHING ABOUT IT??!?!ONE"

    Fucking pubbies that haven't played the game long enough to see how often space empires can explode.

    March 19, 2013 at 2:41 pm Reply
  40. Yawn

    Lol you don't like history do you. Because if you did you would realise solar has won fights now and then against Ncdot before dotbros war, during and a few fights in the invasion of drone space. But this had been a tiny fraction of all fights. 90-95% of fights/objectives solar bloc has lost.
    To further put that into perspective, solar/ pets/ gypsy band vs NCdot/ Evoke, before the dotbros war. The solar bloc had Ncdot outnumbered almost every fight, but won a rare few, although admittedly almost every fight was amazing 😉 fact being though ncdot/ evoke took every objectives from solar bloc while being outnumbered sometimes 2:1 so you need to rethink your logic, as ncdot above anybody have shown and proven on a regular basis how much they fight outnumbered and revel in it.
    Solar beating ncdot has no validity, granted solar are a good unit to be fighting as they are not all retarded like cfc.

    March 20, 2013 at 7:04 pm Reply
  41. Sold

    nice job focusing those maps on specific regions to falsely imply that the former residents of the SE of nul are somehow more deserving of their place than TEST. Yet another quality article from EN24.

    March 21, 2013 at 8:55 pm Reply
  42. PL are whores

    PL are whores that just team up with whoever is winning. Never take the good fight.

    March 22, 2013 at 1:11 am Reply
  43. Zappadoo

    PL's glorious leader is cannon fodder.

    May 22, 2013 at 10:16 pm Reply

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