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FA_vs_TEST

First thing: this post has nothing to do with high-sec.  Sooner or later, I’ll try tackling the whole high-sec war-dec problem but today isn’t that day.  Second thing: I’m going to try to make this quick, because if it goes long the topic I am going to cover is going to give me a headache.

We’ve been hearing more and more about the “war games” proposal that’s being put forth by Shadoo from Pandemic Legion as an alternative to a massive sov war between the HBC and the CFC.  You can read Shadoo’s post about it at Mitten’s site, and there’s a pretty fair analysis of the piece written by mr0ts at EN24.  You can read the pieces yourselves — they are well worth your time — but as is my wont here from time to time, I’m going to give you a summary then tell you what I think about the issue.

The “war games” proposal first came out of the aborted war between TEST and FA that nearly erupted back in January.  Much as the invasion of Poland kicked off World War II, the invasion of FA space by TEST likely would have caused the first “Great War” New Eden has seen in years.  But as I wrote back in January, Shadoo nearly single-handedly terminated the conflict before it started, talking Montolio off the ledge by reminding him that while blowing up spaceships is fun, wars apparently aren’t.  After writing his “The Madness of Montolio” piece, Mittens has been remarkably silent about how “wars start for reasons of rage and hatred”… except when they don’t.  His two TTH columns since then have been unrelated fluff, and his April column looks unlikely to cover it, too.

About this, mr0ts is unyielding and sarcastic, stating “the real reasons for the avoidance of war is the thought of losing all they’ve built” and that the “combatants” are going to “blame CCP while [they] conceal the fact everyone is really just fat and happy in null-sec”.  And while I’m not sure I would go that far, there’s certainly an argument to be made for that perspective.

In his piece ending the war, Shadoo promised that he would come up with a plan for the HBC and the CFC to have massive battles without having to do sov warfare.  And that’s what we now have.  Shadoo claims that an HBC-CFC war would stretch out for two years in much the same way the first and second Great Wars did between Goons and Band of Brothers.  He then further claims that… let me make sure I quote this accurately…

I think the reality is that we, the OLD players, have now played this game for 10 years and too many people know how to bore an attacker out of invading you, or how to most effectively crush a noob lead assault. The ladder is too high for new blood to accomplish anything…

And if that wasn’t condescending enough, he goes on!

EVE is now so polarized that the only war soon left to be fought would be one most of us would not come out of still playing EVE.

And then just to make sure the point is clear, he says it again!

So what do we do while we wait for people to get SO BORED they’re prepared to end their EVE “life” fighting a war no one wants to start, which will last longer than most reading this post are willing to commit to this game?

Let’s be clear here, kids.  The ten year vets have now been playing this game so long that playing this game actively bores them, yet they keep playing it anyway for our sake.  They prevented this war so that we wouldn’t have to stop playing EVE.  So we should really honor their sacrifice and very great wisdom.  Amen.

*cough*  Sorry.  But if anyone wants to know why “been playing this game since beta” people aggravate me, this arrogant little screed is a lovely example.  Hell, one imagines SirMolle saying that very same exact thing about the invasion ladder being too high in 2007 or 2008.  Why yes, I am getting that headache.  Thanks for asking.

Welcome to Cloud Ring.  What color do you want?

Anyway, Shadoo has a solution, and his solution is: a thunder-dome.  Yeah, that’s pretty much his solution.  Oh, he’s not calling it a thunder-dome, of course.  Instead, he’s inventing Chinese Checkers for EVE.  Or maybe just a really big game of Slay.  He visualizes anyone who wants to get involved in his Chinese Checkers game joining corps that will then be attached to corps in Executive Outcomes, the sov owner in the Cloud Ring region.  Why Cloud Ring?  Because it’s easy for the people involved to get to.  That beats Delve, I suppose.  Then these three corps will be given three stations (presumably the ones in Z-Y7R7, B-DBYQ, and 00TY-J).  And then the three corps will have daily fights of between 50 and 1000 ships to a side.

If that weren’t contrived enough, there will then apparently be judges who will decide who wins any given fight, whether that means a system changes hands because of the fight, and how that system changing hands alters the score of the war game.  And this will go on for a couple of weeks until a winner is declared.  At which point… I don’t know.  Shadoo doesn’t go that far.

I swear I am not making this up.  As far as I can tell, this is how this thing is going to work: Red vs Blue, only with rules (“no supers!” “don’t bring too many caps!”), and judges, and a winning side that gets a trillion ISK and maybe ten technetium moons if ten tech moons can be pried out of someone’s colossal moon empire to be handed out as prizes to the “winner” in this enormous game of Chinese Checkers.  Again: I swear I am not making this up.

You’ll forgive me for saying so, I hope, but I think any EVE player who goes in for this immediately loses any moral authority they may have once had to make fun of high-sec players or care-bears.  This.  Is.  A.  Farce.  And what’s more, Shadoo knows it and recognizes it.  He says flat out the goal of this thing is apparently to provide CCP with evidence that their sov system is shit and needs to be changed… to include “borders”, whatever the hell that means.

Shadoo, I’ll save you some time, mate: I think CCP got that message right around January of this year if not before.  How CCP is going to respond to this farce is anyone’s guess but for my money, I hope they do one of their trademark over-reactions.  I think we’re about due for one.

Someone call Ron Perlman and let him know he’s on in five.

EDIT (15/Mar/2013): Oh, and before someone asks, “Well Jester, what’s the alternative?”  The alternative is that the people involved here use their well-established bat-phones, they call the other guys and say “We’re forming up a fleet of 200 guys.  We’re headed for CCP-US in Deklein.  Form up a response fleet!  See you in 20!”  I’m not sure why that’s too difficult, but apparently it is…

Ripard Teg

If you would like to read more we invite you to visit his blog here.

55 Comments

  1. The_Oracle86

    lol good article i agree with everything stated here. Dont worry guys, CCP WILL save us this fanfest. I'm sure they're going to make the 10th Anniversary a big deal, and address every issue plaguing null-sec in some way.

    March 16, 2013 at 9:52 am Reply
    1. Mitty

      like they did with EVE China, that game is riddled with hundreds of alliances battling it out on the….oooh wait.

      Remove RMT options, then the blue donuts 'suddenly' don't need to hug and install 'thunderdome' battlegrounds.

      March 16, 2013 at 11:27 am Reply
      1. Shampoo

        CCP doesn't control the China server.

        March 16, 2013 at 1:21 pm Reply
        1. DarthNefarius

          Theoretically CCP could shut it down again… doubt thier politburo would intervene on such a small issue

          March 16, 2013 at 5:23 pm Reply
          1. Shampoo

            They can't police it in any way, they don't run the game, they have another MMO company run it for them. That being said… the reasons behind why we are not going to fight are pretty clear, and implying the isk being made at the top is trickling down to the grunt is beyond ridiculous, there are no auditors in eve, and there never will be so these so called public budget reports are essentially a joke, and about as useful as an ejection seat on a helicopter .

            When you put huge amounts of currency that can be made into real money in the hands of very few the results are inevitable. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. If there is real money to be made, people will make it, people in China are no different then people in NA, or Russia, or Germany, or wherever you live.

            March 16, 2013 at 10:33 pm
          2. Conditioner

            Ejection seats on Helicopters have saved many a pilots lives bro, they fling the rotars off first silly.

            March 17, 2013 at 11:39 pm
    2. orly?

      this is sarcasm right?

      March 16, 2013 at 3:52 pm Reply
  2. Guy

    Fun fights do happen in Eve but they're usually a bit of a coincidence and aren't fundamentally what day-to-day PvP in Eve is about. I don't understand why Shadoo is trying to turn Eve into something that it's not. If I want a fair challenge I can and do play any number of RTS/FPS/MOBA/ETC games, all of which are more suited to a friendly, consequence free style of play.

    Having arranged wargames seems like you would be sucking the soul out of the game. Where's all the drama, griefing and backstabbing going to come from?

    So what did he have in mind for an alternate sov system, anyway?

    March 16, 2013 at 10:01 am Reply
  3. asdf

    goons being gay… where's the surprise?

    March 16, 2013 at 12:53 pm Reply
  4. former -A- FC

    0.o Out of nowhere Ripard makes a sensible post? What gives?

    March 16, 2013 at 1:42 pm Reply
  5. Codemonkey

    "Wargames" basically create a 0.0 version of the "conflict" provided by RvB to it's players: Confined, inconsequential pvp. That's taking away one of the best features of 0.0: The meaning of actions and events. Without real risk and commitment, there are no real achievements.
    Shadoo's proposal distracts from the fact that his alliance is part of the (player made) problem of 0.0, the blue doughnut. By trying to prevent the CFC vs. HBC+N3 war he comes across as a giant cockblocker, denying game content to thousands. There are more reasons for that than the touted unwillingness of FCs to grind sov on this scale…
    At least the "wargames" could easily escalate to a true war :)

    March 16, 2013 at 1:46 pm Reply
  6. LOL.

    its not really unknown, that you dont have respect for people who know more and have more experience than you. its why half of eve thinks your one of the greatest douches around.

    March 16, 2013 at 2:17 pm Reply
  7. Damn girl

    Yup all comes down to leadership rmt/botting with an excuse of sov on the side.
    In black and white as clear as day those are the factual reasons.

    March 16, 2013 at 4:31 pm Reply
    1. seethruit

      YES YES YES. And the real money transfers behind it.

      March 16, 2013 at 7:44 pm Reply
  8. EasyKill

    Why bother fighting a war though?

    Both the CFC and HBC have all the territory they need (whats the point of taking regions then? Everyone always complains about how empty they are anyway). They have all the strategic income they need. Sitting on a titan for a hour waiting to go shoot a few million structure hitpoints for no tangible reason (beyond appeasing the whining masses not affiliated with either faction) is utterly pointless and incredibly boring.

    There are no conflict drivers to make a war on this scale meaningful. And say this war does kick off and nullsec erupts into total war, say the winner even finds allies to stick in all that newly claimed space. What is the result? Another blue donut for you to complain about. But hey, at least you got a few good articles on EN24 about fleet fights you can read while grinding isk in the Citadel (at least, until all the real fighting devolves into blue balling and station games alongside sanity-breaking structure grinds).

    I have no love for either the CFC or HBC, but the amount of whine whirling around this situation from those that possess a hatred of both long surpassed what could be called fanatacism is just ridiculous.

    March 16, 2013 at 5:07 pm Reply
    1. random blobber

      that big war in par 2 is what makes Eve the game we all play – wargames are stupid, necessary for IRL but this is a game, burn the damn galaxy… who cares who comes out on top? they'll sit there for days/months/years then get burnt down too… ad infinitum b/c of GAME

      March 16, 2013 at 5:55 pm Reply
      1. nc.

        U are correct sir, these retards are forgetting why they love the game

        March 16, 2013 at 6:16 pm Reply
        1. seethruit

          Now they love the money it generates for them in real life.

          March 16, 2013 at 7:52 pm Reply
        2. EasyKill

          How do you know why they love the game?

          Personally, I'd rather shoot other people rather than alarm clock for timers just to shoot some station that does nothing but sit there. PVP in this game is fun for most because of the rush. Shooting SBUs or stations doesnt really provide that. Sure, there will be a few good brawls in the beginning. Those fights might last several months even. But, just like when the NC and -A- died, in the end its a drastically longer time just being bored, staring at a bridge titan or watching some empty station's hitbar turn red.

          March 16, 2013 at 9:10 pm Reply
    2. Chris

      I think this argument that no one wants to fight a sov war is almost purely coming from the current leadership. As a rank and file, give me a compelling reason to fight a sov war, and I'll do it in a heartbeat.

      Of course none of the current leaders are going to give you a compelling reason to grind sov, because by definition it means their defeat.

      The idea that eve is played out and there aren't any new ideas and the entire problem is the sov system? Bunch of unimaginative lazy bastards in power who think this should get thrown the fuck out, and the sooner the better.

      March 16, 2013 at 9:38 pm Reply
  9. Test Pilot

    Three words LOL….

    March 16, 2013 at 5:13 pm Reply
  10. DarthNefarius

    This Thunderdome came about thanks to CCP's ignoring the TECH moon goo bottle neck 2 years too long…
    Last year CCP Soundwave ( an ex goon to boot ) tried to add a new mechanic by announcing Ring mining but I gues the NULL biased DEVs & Unifex veto'd him because by all appearances it has been shit canned

    March 16, 2013 at 5:31 pm Reply
    1. peetsco

      Nice try. Blaming CCP is a nice head fake. It's simple, Test and Goons are scared of losing sov in a fight against each other.

      That is all.

      March 16, 2013 at 7:42 pm Reply
  11. random blobber

    agreed…. no thunderdome – let's burn new eden to the ground in a war on a scale even those bittervets have never seen.

    March 16, 2013 at 5:51 pm Reply
  12. N3 guy

    From an N3 perspective the reaction to this idea has been fairly negative. We had a vote on the nulli forums

    14 in favour of war games
    128 against
    51 willing to go with whatever leadership says.

    pretty conclusive.

    March 16, 2013 at 6:33 pm Reply
    1. righton

      Yes, it's interesting that Test had absolutely no objection to grinding Nulli's structures into the dust.

      It's just when Test or Goons face enemies of their own size, in other words each other, they get all "oh noes can't sovereign grind" on us.

      They are cowards plain an simple, too scared to engage in a real fight against each other where they might lose something.

      March 16, 2013 at 7:39 pm Reply
  13. People forget this is a GAME and they are meant to be FUN stop letting all this imaginary tech and neo come between the game being utter shite as it currently is to being totally awsome.
    We want structures blowing the fuck up and huge epic battles not fucking organized brawls, these leaders who run "PVP" corps/allainces really need to pull there fucking fingers out and look at them selfs.

    March 16, 2013 at 7:10 pm Reply
  14. Chris

    Ya as a relatively new player, some of the ego's in this game are kind of hard to take at times.

    The problem is that the game isn't new, so it's going to be hard to attract the next Mittani, someone who is enthusiastic and ambitious.

    Most of the current leadership in nullsec is unable to think outside the box because they have lived in it too long. The sov system might have problems, but the sov system is not the major problem with nullsec. Nullsec leaders are the main problem with nullsec.

    To illustrate this, recently I've been looking for my first nullsec corp. What I've found is that most of the nullsec corps are just a carbon copy of the next one. None of them can give me a compelling reason for why they exist, or why I should join them. They are just going through the motions like sheep following what everyone else is doing. Even their corporate apps are carbon copies of everyone else. And all of them will try to tell you how much they know and how little you know.

    People in this game are dying for some excitement, something to give them a reason to login. Structured pvp is not it. To think that structured pvp will get players excited is fundamentally missing the point of why a lot of us play a sandbox game. People might show up, but it's not what they are really looking for.

    March 16, 2013 at 8:47 pm Reply
  15. Friendlypain

    OH MY GOD! This sounds so much like the ancient Greeks! Fighting became civilized and when a unit of soldiers were "beaten" the would raise their spears and minimize their loss so they can play soldiers the next day! They forgot how to fight a war so when the Romans showed up the Greeks were dismayed when they raised their spears that the Romans continued to kill them. The Roman were like… hey bro… you pissed us off…. what did you think we were going to do? Funny enough, you saw the same thing in the 18th century. The nobility were so civilized they turned war into a game too… until a short little French man blasted a a frozen lake full of retreating soldiers… because he was like… "hey bro… you pissed us off… what did you think we were going to do?" Seems when the ruling elite are too busy polishing each others spears and dress like trannies all in the name of being civilized they get taught an awful lesson….

    March 16, 2013 at 8:57 pm Reply
  16. B.A.B

    I march to the beat of my own drum..

    March 16, 2013 at 11:46 pm Reply
  17. Drengis

    You’re talking about a video game. What the hell kind of indictment is “farce?” Why is one sliver of artifice unacceptable in the context of a decade-long, multi-million dollar exercise in fakery?

    Why does any bloc owe any other group of players anything? You’re known to mewl about accepting the validity of highsec play, why do you care why and where 0.0 do their shooting?

    Get some fucking perspective you big autistic dork.

    March 17, 2013 at 1:35 am Reply
  18. Random

    Nice article. Next thing they will be asking for is a "Que" button….

    March 17, 2013 at 7:32 am Reply
  19. another loki down

    Know the solution? The Leadership grow some balls and fight. These guys won't because they'll lose their pixels.

    March 17, 2013 at 7:57 am Reply
  20. EXE

    A lot of people say CFC and HBC should go to war. I ask why? It's not like CFC need HBC space or vice versa so why try to take it? The isk and effort that would take is better spent developing and fortifying the current holdings. There will always be PvP to be had so that's not a good enough reason for a war on this scale. It's much more fun with the regular roams and hd fleets plus occasionaly deploying to cause trouble for random scrubs.

    tl:dr
    CFC & HBC has little to gain and a lot to lose from fighting eachothers so even if you change sov system why should we? We are better of maintaining our position and getting PvP fun from scrubs to weak, dumb or arrogant to get a place with us.

    March 17, 2013 at 8:29 am Reply
    1. FuckPL

      And I am asking: Why The Fuck Does CFC and HBC even exist? The idea of coalitions was to form a force to fight back an enemy or attacking someone. But now, who is CFC and HBC attacking or being attacked by? These coalitions are profane blueblob protecting interests of people with totally carebear mentality. This RvB faggy things is really the most idiotic idea Shadoo ever brought up. Just the way Shadoo thinks this way, that he denies his own members REALLY good fights, forces them to engage in lowsec because everyone in null is blue (besides shrinking space of Solar). How the fuck anyone who has balls to fight can even stay in faggy PL? Alliance that is supposed to conprise of the best pilots… just to give them blue standings to 90% to all potential targets in nullsec? The answer is simple – people who join or stay in PL do not have the balls. They are exactly the same "i wanna be on winning side" faggots who join CFC and HBC after 2 months of playing EVE and feel like they are the winners.

      March 17, 2013 at 11:38 am Reply
      1. EXE

        They exist because it is a good way of playing the game if you want to keep what you have and take more if you need it. Why go to war with your neighbours if you don't need their space and can get PvP content in other ways? Why shit on your neighbours lawn when he helps keep yours tidy? You'll have more fun if you keep your block nice and neat, then just take the subway down to the slum if you feel like picking a fight. The pact against structure shooting also gives the opportunity to bring anything from solo roams to 250 man fleets to the other coalition and have a fun fight without pointlessly putting neither their nor your own home at risk. To risk it all there has to be something substantial to gain and that is just not out there at this point.

        Simply put, we love to fight and we found ways to do it without anyone needing to move out of their homes as long as they play along. Want to change that? Form a stronger coalition and kick us out, then you can make the rules.

        March 17, 2013 at 4:54 pm Reply
        1. Mike

          Go play farmvile,

          The don't make rational arguments for not fighting each other, other then you don't want to lose, and that you can always fight people that ether can't or won't defend themselves. Implying that you even want to PvP is kinda a joke as they whole purpose of the coalition is to avoid fights. Truth be told, if you didn't pretend to want to PvP in your farmvile community you have made for yourselves I wouldn't even reply, but the notion that you play eve for the PvP is insulting to the rest of the community.

          March 17, 2013 at 5:10 pm Reply
        2. Shogun

          You pretty much wrote that you don't want to lose, and would rather not fight someone that can defend themselves. Funny thing is, your alliance is blue to the two largest coalitions, and to be honest there probably isn't an alliance in the game history that has ever had as many blues as you have, and your actually going to pretend you "love to fight"? Why are you trying to sell us such bullshit? Do you honestly think anyone will buy that? To think anyone would actually buy that is insulting like someone already said, so please just shut the hell up already, you look like a lair , or a fucking idiot every time you write something.

          March 17, 2013 at 5:55 pm Reply
          1. EXE

            On the contrary, I do love to fight, but as any good commander I do what I can to ensure maximum gain for minimum loss.

            March 17, 2013 at 9:06 pm
          2. Shogun

            First of all… "I do what I can to ensure maximum gain for minimum loss." Dude, your just breaking 50%, and your alliances is taking part in coalition fleets where you can, and often only send a token force that can whore all the mails without worrying about welping fleets.

            Considering your alliance has the worst killboard efficiency out of the two coalitions your in, I don't think you should be telling anyone about what makes a good commander. Infact when taking a closer look at your killboard your alliance seems to love shooting POS's, and not actual players. Out of your total of 515 kills you have so far this month 241 are POS's, or POS modules, and another 12 are noob ships.

            Seeing we took a look at your alliance kills, lets take a quick look at their deaths..
            http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=168… Yes that's a dual tanked vaga. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=168… Yes a zero tanked nado, with a passive targeter. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=167… I don't know what to even say to this http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=167… Not dual tanked, but it's still an armor vega http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=167… Standard drake fit? http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=167… More empty slots http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=167… Nullified salvage/codbreaker Tengu with 2 rigs

            March 17, 2013 at 10:45 pm
          3. Jakes

            lol… the dual tanked Vaga is missing it rigs also.

            Until I actually looked at their killboard, I didn't know Executive Outcome was that bad, I thought they were probably better then SMA, or LAWN but no. These guys are literately have worse killboard stats then Li3(which has fewer members, and just moved their whole alliance across five regions), which I don't understand. Being the worst nullsec alliance in EVE is pretty hard to judge, because how independent you are is a big factor. An alliance that takes part in coalition ops will usually always have much better stats, as you only need a handful of pilots in a 200 man fleet, and your alliance will get on almost all, if not every killmail that 200 man fleet kills. But that's whats so strange…. Executive outcome is in two different coalitions, and should have a decent killboard as they seem to have 6-12 dudes in CFC, and HBC fleets, yet their kilboard looks awful…. I don't get it.

            March 17, 2013 at 11:22 pm
          4. EXE

            And yet our diplomatic skills and the fact we always back our bros up have put us on top of the food chain in eve. That says more about the terrible scrubs that can't get into HBC or CFC then it says about us. We are regarded as valuable allies by the most powerful groups in eve while you numbnuts fight over the crumbs that fall of our table like stray dogs. Barking loud and snapping inthe air, jealous that we have what you want but to scared to come take it…,

            March 18, 2013 at 12:26 am
          5. Jakes

            I don't think it's actually that hard to get into ether ether coalition, all you have to do is suck dick, and be happy with whatever kinda table scrap your master passes you. If you have proven anything at all on this page it's you can bef ucking completely shit, but 6 dudes in coalition fleets, and have a huge blue list that you never have to worry about being fucking completely shit. Whats funny is about two hours ago I didn't even know you were so fucking completely shit, but you seem to have went out of your way to boast about how your alliance loves to PvP, but you haven't even gotten over 300 kills on people so far this month. There are multiple individuals in my alliance that have more kills then that so far this month, shit one dude has 740 kill…. that dude loves PvP, your alliance mates probably love mining, or love ratting, or love station spinning, that's at least believable. But you really, you can't go on forums claiming your alliance love something when it's so fucking obvious that they don't.

            March 18, 2013 at 1:18 am
    2. Mike

      EXE you asking why people should fight? Are you trolling us? or are you actually trying to get your farmvile fix from eve? You don't make any rational argument for not fighting in eve. Then for some reason you tried to imply that huge coalitions even want fights, which is just ridiculous. These huge coalitions were made to avoid fights, and the only thing they have ever been good at is discouraging PvP.

      Whats funny is you wrote this paragraph(and then wrote a second "tl:dr" paragraph that was almost just as long as the first) about how CFC, and HBC would rather not risk anything in eve, well only attack those that can't, or won't defend themselves, and you actually think that you have made a good augment.

      March 17, 2013 at 2:27 pm Reply
    3. FA grunt

      It will collapse a coalition in the end revitalizing the game

      March 17, 2013 at 10:12 pm Reply
  21. Butthurt

    I think the "war that didn't happen" is the best covered subject on EN24.

    Too bad you don't cover as good events that are really happening.

    March 17, 2013 at 9:23 am Reply
  22. Lugalbandak

    Its fairly simpel , just leave the blue donut and have some good fites elswhere, really its possible , just leave there is a button for that. Eve thanks you……

    March 17, 2013 at 11:48 am Reply
  23. PL grunt

    Its like Generals complaining that there wasn't enough good fights during the cold war.. but not actually wanting to fight the big fight.

    As unfortunately for them all the Cubas, South Americans, europeans, Koreans and Vietnamese have all given up sovereignty and completely joined one side or the other because they were sick of being shat on or have since rolled over and died..

    Sov is broken so lets show CCP how broken this shit is by shitting up the sandbox concept

    March 17, 2013 at 6:21 pm Reply
  24. Captain Sunflower

    I feel as if it's laziness. I've been in null for a while and that's what the real problem is. Nobody wants alarm clock ops and nobody wants 23/7 CTAs/Strat Ops. I really think we won't ever see a great war again. Eve has really stabilized

    March 17, 2013 at 10:12 pm Reply
    1. Captain Sunflower

      Also, nobody wants the waste their Saturday trying to turn on a module in 150% tidi because there's 5k people on grid. People gotta mow the lawn

      March 17, 2013 at 10:13 pm Reply
  25. INKer

    So what Shadoo/CFC are saying is that we should just all drop our alliances and join RvB. It amounts to the same thing.

    Thing is, if we wanted that, we'd have joined RvB instead of a null-sec corp.

    As the N3 vote shows, this isnt what the player base wants. So, if enough of us dont take part in these 'Wargames' what are they gonna do about it? I know that despite the crazyness going on in my alliance, we dont want staged conflicts, and I believe if my alliance voted it would show the same results N3's showed.

    I know I wont be taking part in any, thats for sure. Just how long it will be before the Leadership realises and accept this is whats gonna be painful.

    March 17, 2013 at 10:34 pm Reply
  26. Inmei T'ko

    Fix the sov mechanics problem, and add another 5000 nullsec systems. Make moon goo deplete over time and randomly spawn across null and lowsec moons. Then we would see some good fights.

    March 18, 2013 at 7:29 pm Reply
    1. EXE

      Depleting moon go would make null even more stabilized, since it would mean we'd have to ensure even the worst parts of null was in blue hands and defended by the coalition in order to ensure that no high value moons get mined by scrubs who shouldn't have it. Sure, you'd get some fights initially when the otec and notec move in to take control of the last parts, but change it now and all null would be united by end of June.

      After that there would be no point in fighting over moons, why go through the trouble of taking one when it will deplete soon and may show up in your space next? Also, who do you think this will benefit the most? If moons deplete, who doyou tthink has the manpower to scan every moon in eve in one day and the logistic capacity to place or reinforce a tower in any system at will? Not the "little guys".

      March 18, 2013 at 7:52 pm Reply
  27. KM Whore

    Dudes….you are missing the great opportunity these staged fights present. Just bring some stealth bombers and km whore their staged games. There can be a lot of fun just messing with their games.

    And if you have the guys and the skills, take down their cyno jammer and hot drop the games!

    March 18, 2013 at 9:14 pm Reply
    1. Marcus Malek3

      Anyone that takes part in this shit should be embarrassed, even if your just there to farm the faggets that actually think this is a good idea.

      Worse case scenario is these wargames are successful, it pretty much means the end of the game as we know it, and change the game into some battleground game with no consequences, everyone quits playing, and start playing different games. Best case scenario is it's a failure, and everyone stays blue, and stagnate, and everyone get sick of the NIPfest, and quit playing the game, and start playing other games.

      March 18, 2013 at 9:32 pm Reply

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