What follows is a counter of Gevlon’s article regarding high-sec and its impact on casual player – which we published yesterday – the article didn’t suit well with a number of players (opinions vary), here is a player submitted counter, you be the judge.

Lets actually define “High-sec Casual” instead of defining what it is not.

Definition: A casual player in high-sec. As exemplified by a player who plays maybe 2 hours a night missioning or mining. Whether they play with PLEX or real money is irrelevant to the level of their casualness. They are not involved in null sov, and do not in fact venture out of high-sec when able.

One major point of contention: Anybody who pays with PLEX is still paying for the game; that’s why CCP allows it. PLEX do not come out of thin air Greedy Goblin, they are purchased with real money in stacks of hundreds by oil-rich Texans so they can roll around in their in-game currency (or so I’m told).

The problem with high-sec isn’t that people won’t PVP there; it’s that people are trying to PVP there. I’ve done Low-sec piracy, Null-sec bloc wars, and Wormhole PVP, they all have one thing in common: people are expecting to PVP there sooner or later. When the culture of an area is to expect PVP as
inevitability, you will always find it.

I’m not saying you will get a kill every night in any of these areas. That’s a hard lesson to learn; you will not get kills every night unless you are involved in sov warfare and can blap the other side’s blob.

Wormholers know that there are dry spells, and there are glorious months where you drop two or three carriers. The problem isn’t that there isn’t enough PVP in EVE, it’s that as a gaming community we’re not satisfied with the kills or number of kills we are getting.

To be bluntly honest with you all, most of the people who are complaining about the death of PVP are the ones who don’t go out hunting every night. They camp a gate, or they station spin waiting for a fleet to come up. Lets say you’re the one initiating PVP; you’re the lion. There’s a whole herd of gazelles out there. If you wait for the one to walk up to you and stick it’s neck in your mouth, you’re hunting the stupid prey. You get fed, but probably not very often, because the other gazelles see what happens. But if you’re sneaky, and you move through the brush, and get very close to the gazelles, and you maim one and then tackle another, maybe you get two kills. Or maybe they all get away. That’s why it’s called hunting and not “grocery shopping.”

You are not entitled to any “x” number of kills per day. You are not entitled to ruin the sand-castle for somebody else. You have to work for it. You sure as hell aren’t any more important than any other single subscriber. For every one of you like me who run 5 accounts PVPing, there’s another guy who runs 20 accounts mining. Is he less important to the bottom-line because he doesn’t do “l33t PVP”?

Live and let live; if that guy wants to do inefficient mining in high-sec he can damn well do that. If he wants to move into a C2 wormhole and do grav mining and build rorquals, he can damn well do that too but I’ll be waiting for him. Your “rights” are defined by what you are allowed to do in game. You are allowed to kill anybody, anywhere, provided you can avoid the consequences of that action or prolong them long enough for you to land the kill (e.g. Concord).

High-sec isn’t broken. The problem isn’t that high-sec earns more, it’s that high-sec doesn’t have PVP to distract from ISK earning. Those high-sec carebears can mission 3 or 4 hours straight with pretty much no risk of getting ganked, netting a cool few hundred million if they’re good and have a Noctis alt. If a null-seccer were to run anomalies for that amount of time (lets say they don’t get interrupted) they would earn AT LEAST as much, but probably more, especially if they bother to salvage. I get 7 or 8 million ISK ticks in high-sec on average; I was getting 10-15 million PER TENGU when I was in null. Start running complexes? The loot is better in low and null with similar drop rates. Start running wormholes? Shut the front door you just got 50 nanoribbons from 9 C1 sites, you’re rich.

You want to know why you’re not carebearing in high-sec? Because it’s boring. Maybe you’re in low-sec now, camping Tama gate in Sujarento dropping carriers on unsuspecting fools. Maybe you’re in null-sec with a 30 man roaming gang rolling through gate camps. Maybe you’re in wormhole space, chain rolling your static hoping to find that one Kronos that’s online in a C2 with C5/NS static thinking he’s safe. You know why you’re not in high-sec? Because you don’t want to be. The game is huge and fantastic and frankly so much better than high-sec, you couldn’t be relegated to that.

If you want anything more than that, I don’t think you’re really getting it.

– Aurelia Endymion.


  1. derp a derpa

    inefficient mining in high-sec? i make 11 bil a month mining in hs not afk either so its not really inefficient can pull about 350-400 mil in 5 hours, simply because i don't have time for my null sec pvp habit at the moment

    March 16, 2013 at 9:59 am Reply
    1. nine

      wow i'm sure you do, now how much do you make per account per hour

      March 16, 2013 at 10:16 am Reply
      1. Guess math isnt your strong side.. first you take the 350-400M and devide them with 5(hes mining for 5 hours)
        Then you devide it with the amount of players and voila..

        March 16, 2013 at 4:53 pm Reply
    2. Mitty

      sooo….20 accounts, 1 active hauler and rest botting I presume lol.

      March 16, 2013 at 11:23 am Reply
    3. hausser0815

      lol. i make more money while flying hs-incursions. with one char only.

      March 16, 2013 at 11:57 am Reply
      1. derp a derpa

        you sir miss the point i do this whilst playing other games and doing other shit no bots required and only 5 toons , minimal effort needed, no haluer macks ftw

        March 16, 2013 at 12:01 pm Reply
        1. Noisrevbus

          Are you not exactly the “player” who should be nerfed?

          Running five accounts passively making ISK be sheer stacking principle shouldn’t be more rewarding than running one account in a higher risk area.

          Should you take your accounts into nullsec you could still play your “other games” best you like, but you would be subject to player interaction in EVE that most likely would have you actually play EVE.

          This whole afk-multibox to play for free issue is one of the number one reasons why low/nullsec PvE actvitities should be notably better income.

          March 16, 2013 at 12:09 pm Reply
          1. derp a derpa

            yet again you miss the point i do this for 3 months a year when rl gets busy otherwise i run 2 accounts and pvp in low/nul sec i pay my subs ill play how i like not how any other dictates to me

            March 16, 2013 at 12:35 pm
          2. So why is it that he should be nerfed? Hes paying for all of his 5 accounts, its his way of playing and you can do the same, Biggest difference is that he does it and you dont and my best bet why you dont is that you find it boring..

            March 16, 2013 at 4:45 pm
          3. And calling 0.0 higher risk area is bull, ive been in 0.0 and high sec and to be honest, high sec makes me paranoid and to me its more safe in 0.0..
            Why should you be able to make more one 1 account than he does on 5, i mean if he devides the 350-400M with 5 thats chars over 5 hours then he only makes 10.15M pr hour pr account, i mean if you cant earn morre than that in 0.0 then you suck at eve and should play something else..

            March 16, 2013 at 4:51 pm
          4. Nulli_Grunt

            After playing in High sec for a short while in my early years of eve, and then playing in 0.0 sov, the feeling of safety is immensely different. In highsec, anyone can be watching you, everyone is a threat. In Nullsec, if you aren't blue, you better be good at hiding or have a strong tank, because I'm coming to skullfuck you, and I might die in that effort, but it wont be with my pants around my ankles.

            March 16, 2013 at 8:28 pm
          5. joostskywalker

            Everyone will find his own happiness. Some need money or isk for it, some like to expand their knowledge and other get their fun from action. I just like to nip abit on every aspect.

            March 17, 2013 at 11:56 am
  2. Mars

    Love it, finally some figures and correct examples used, not just it sucks because i said it does which is the goblin way

    March 16, 2013 at 10:39 am Reply
  3. 1337bittervet

    350M/5 hours = 70M/hour income with 5 toons -> 12M/h.

    Shit isk. Come to nullsec and box nagas. 5x your income.

    March 16, 2013 at 12:08 pm Reply
    1. The Observer

      Or do the same thing in 0.0. mine ALL the ABCs :)

      March 16, 2013 at 9:26 pm Reply
  4. NoTech

    Heeey, someone put it in words, thanks!! Nice article. And if we meet on said occasions, you're more then welcome to try to blow me out of the sky.

    March 16, 2013 at 1:53 pm Reply
    1. Aurelia Endymion

      Glad there was some good responses; for anybody who didn't read the article, I am currently a wormholer, not a high-seccer with 20 mining alts. Sorry.

      March 17, 2013 at 2:27 am Reply
  5. LOL.

    gevlon thinks hes elite pvp because he pais people sp he can kill 'em.
    that fact alone shows how much of bullshit he is, and that there is no reason to actually give his words anywhere more importance than the word sof any other raving lunatic.

    March 16, 2013 at 2:13 pm Reply
    1. No he was shooting his alts, he didnt pay anyone

      March 16, 2013 at 4:41 pm Reply
  6. FA grunt

    This is what's wrong with eve you created a counter article of how much people in hi sec don't want conflict. What needs to happen is a change in wealth balance on a player level to be pushed put into null sec to gain greater wealth on a individual level. I mean extremely different than what it is now

    March 16, 2013 at 2:50 pm Reply
    1. If you cant get wealthy in the space you got then you are doing it wrong mate and thats why you belong in FA..

      March 16, 2013 at 4:42 pm Reply
      1. joostskywalker

        Being wealthy is just a matter of view, so it really depends on your perspective . Just like happiness and more.

        March 17, 2013 at 12:00 pm Reply
  7. WWW

    +1 for not being retarded like Gevlon.

    March 16, 2013 at 3:11 pm Reply
  8. Nice counter:)
    To be honest i really think Gobling is trolling to hard, no one can be that thick, i hope not-.-

    March 16, 2013 at 4:56 pm Reply
  9. alx Warlord

    Perfect repply!

    … but eve still lacks allot of improvements… if you take a look at feature and Ideas forums you will see that… Tecnetium nee more fix, POS need a revamp, we have a incomplete WIS, Sov is a pain…. and many other small/big things….

    March 16, 2013 at 8:46 pm Reply
  10. To be honest I think a lot of people are coming to see the reality that highsec isn't broken, if anything the attention right now should be on improving the reward/risk balance in null and low to incentivise players being there not boo hoo highsec players have it all.

    The wisest players have always moved with the times and adapted to where the profit is, hell when invention was just released that was in nullsec farming sites for ship data interfaces at 1bil a pop, then lowsec and the FW goldmine so what now its highsec doesn't mean its broken.

    March 17, 2013 at 12:44 am Reply
  11. hina

    I was about to shut up since I am not playing anymore.

    But here’s one thing. Eve is not broken, people simply changed. I was playing for several years, started somewhere 2007. It was great. First steps in Hi, than low, and moving to null. No supers, 4 titans in the whole Eve. Building an outpost was something really big. Now there is blob warfare, war games, an HiSec ganking as a way to get your quota on KB. Casual players in HS don’t want risk. They log in to see their shinies on belt/mission/ at gate. Quite often they don’t have 2hrs+ to wait for a fleet, so they play solo. Playing eve solo, just for fun means you don’t have 5 chars. You have 1 or maybe 2. Flying alone in low/nul with max 2 accounts…good luck with that. That’s why HS was good, it was safe enough. Well not anymore. Killing mostly defenseless miners on the belts is now considered pro PVP. War games where everything is staged is called pro PVP. Avoxering/stealing and backstabbing is getting ‘well done’ by general audience. If someone wants to give something (ship/module/isk) to new player he’s called idiot or scammer. People changed, I don’t want to have any interactions with someone who thinks that flipping cans is great fun. And now I am a bad guy because I am asocial ? I am bad guy because I want to be left alone on belt and mine my rock of veldspar. Not for profit…I want to have fun building something out of it. NO…I am breaking Eve. I need to be nerfed and of course I deserve to be ganked. I should be prepared, I should trust no one, and be always ready. Fit tank to my barge.

    Now you see, there wasn’t need to do this few years ago. Ppl who wanted pvp were going to low/null. Now it’s hard to get your kill without getting killed, so miners are EVIL…and looks good on KB. Ppl changed, are more mean I think. Well I don’t play anymore, but I hope that one day CCP will get Doomsday t2 where it will hit for 30% of shield AND Armour AND Hull, so 3-4 hits will take down any super. That way null will be fixed and all those null bears will have to try harder again.

    Fly [un]safe.

    March 17, 2013 at 3:07 am Reply
  12. another loki down

    At least this author realizes that the difference between hardcore and casual is the amount of time invested, not what you decide to do.

    March 17, 2013 at 7:53 am Reply
  13. xWrathx

    you got to be kiding me…..all you guys moan and wrath how that guy (sorry cant be bothered to check his name Goblin something) is shet and why EN24 are posting his idiocrasy…and yet you all read that shet and then with mad eyes typing angry comments lol (example Goblins last post got 70ish comments and this anti goblin post is under 30sih and all this to say how bad goblin is lol) …its realy is funny , for me i read (in past sentence) some posts (Goblins) till he become miner ganker and started his awesomes in pvp ….after his 1st pvp post i didnt check his posts again….i just ignore them since i know they will be full of nonsense , and i suggest you do the same….or dont :p

    March 17, 2013 at 11:22 am Reply
  14. joostskywalker

    Almost without a specific flavour, so a pretty decent article. I like to add myself that the system finds its own balance and actually high sec carebearing and null sec carebearing creates a better balance. Let the carebear fly his faction fit whatever. That is his fun, while mine roaming wh space.were i kill in my 1 bil proteus and feom time to time have to replace my ship. Or were i jump into low secs with a bc and lose it almost every time. Because that is the reason i go low to welp a ship or get welped. I even find the ingame financiel system better in balance then our own financiel system. You you have some people trying to play the market and yeah you have a sort of rent charged by ccp over everything. But actually ccp provides the right isk sinks to keep it in balance. Were our real life system blows up just like any unbalanced system.

    March 17, 2013 at 11:47 am Reply
  15. HCB

    So it basically boils down to null sec and low sec are jealous that people in high sec can make more money then them !!

    How bout you let me play the game my way and I'll let you play the game your way. It may seem amazing to you but some of us are simply not interested in PVP or null sec(been there done that and it's boring as well.). Let alone joining a CORP/Alliance.

    March 17, 2013 at 11:59 pm Reply
  16. Weaksauce

    One of the best most balanced pieced I have seen for a long time.

    CCP have done an amazing job of squeezing a myriad of gameplay styles into one universe. The balance they have achieved is so smart and clever. the last thing they need to do is listen to propaganda from self interested players.

    Leave the game to the average poster / whinging player and it would be dead within 6 months. Ppl get on with it and play.

    March 18, 2013 at 12:04 am Reply
  17. HCB

    So it basically boils down to null sec and low sec are jealous that people in high sec can make more money then them !!

    March 18, 2013 at 12:13 am Reply
  18. hear hear

    hear hear

    March 18, 2013 at 6:02 am Reply
  19. Someotherdude

    Goblin is NOT trolling hard, I wish he were…

    This counter view is exactly right but frankly, uses way too much logic, practical experience and language that Goblin with his wee WoW bran cannot comprehend. To a player whgo's sickness is ganking miners in l33t move in hs – I don't think there's a cure.

    March 18, 2013 at 12:33 pm Reply

Leave a Reply