ships_drakes

Much moaning and complaining has been heard over the recent ship changes, especially to how it affected the Hurricane and Drake. We’ve stood by our shield Battle Cruisers even in the face of substantial buffs to cruisers and big nerfs to the ‘combat’ Battlecruisers – the undeniable go-to ship for years in 0.0. Now, it seems they are nigh unusable in the eyes of many players. We watched as players refit their ships, unmounting high-slot modules. We knew time would tell us soon enough if the doubters were right.

So it was late Friday night as our membership talked shop and popped rats that one of our picket ships discovered a 9-10 man gang of LAWN in our vicinity. Knowing our cluster would be glowing with juicy NPC kills, two of our FCs split up on coms and organized a response fleet. Within 2 minutes our forces regrouped at an outpost, organzied into a com channel and stood ready for orders.

We were still calling for more ships when the LAWN boosting / scout Loki entered system. Intel put the hostile fleet at 7 Caracals, 1 Stabber Fleet Issue, 1 Sabre and the Loki. The new CFC doctrine calls for HAM2 Caracals so their gang could put up some good DPS numbers. Compounding our situation was a Pandemic Legion hot-dropper who’d been skulking around in our backyard, surely looking for some BLOPS or possibly bring-your-own-super action. Whatever we did about this would have to be done quickly or we invited a PL response.

Our fleet consisted of Hurricanes, a few Drakes and one Sleipnir that was probably ill-advised given the battle setting. Raw numbers were even, ISK value was likely roughly even (remember the boosting Loki), and the only questions were would we get a fight and how would the old standbys fare.

LAWN’s Sabre was first to the field and quickly dispatched, it’s pilot podded. The body of the cruiser gang landed shortly thereafter, all within 3K of the auto/scram Sleipnir and well inside the Hurricane’s optimals. Despite a good effort on the cruiser gang’s behalf, the results were predictable.

To their credit, LAWN stayed on the field to the bitter end, burning down two Hurricanes before losing their fleet and most of their pods. The stereotypical banter about CFC needing 4 to 1 odds etc was nowhere in evidence. My personal thanks to LAWN and their FC; we’ve tangled before and haven’t always come out on top, today just happened to be our day. GF o7

So, what does all this mean? To me it means the tier 2 Battle Cruiser nerfbat wasn’t a death sentence, and upgraded cruisers still have a meaningful presence. Throw two Scythes into the LAWN mix and we’d have needed serious reconsideration of our fleet composition. Sure, the bigger ships could out-kill the smaller ones. There’d have been little point, though to winning the raw kill numbers if we’d ended up in the ISK hole.

Of course, this is one example and by no means difinitive. HFFS and make up your own minds.

– Raven Zulu

53 Comments

  1. Red Teufel

    t1 cruiser gang and no logi is fail

    March 11, 2013 at 10:01 pm Reply
  2. raknor

    WOW the things that make the news these days.

    March 11, 2013 at 10:10 pm Reply
    1. mmm… Opinion Pieces =/= News pieces.

      March 11, 2013 at 10:38 pm Reply
    2. FailCascade

      If you make an article I promise I'll make a shit comment in it.

      March 12, 2013 at 12:29 am Reply
    3. anon

      Wow – the things people take for news these days…

      March 12, 2013 at 1:15 am Reply
      1. FA grunt

        This game is turning into wow

        March 12, 2013 at 2:16 pm Reply
  3. mittens for csm8

    killed lawn in cruisers and we was in bcs hurrrr duurrrrrr durrrrrr…………….. fk me lawn is shit

    March 11, 2013 at 10:32 pm Reply
  4. Lan

    A gang of BCs kill a bunch of cruisers ! LOL

    March 11, 2013 at 10:32 pm Reply
  5. poepoepoe

    In an incredible shocker confirming hurricanes are still Op, cane fleet defeats equal number of caracals

    March 11, 2013 at 11:02 pm Reply
    1. hic

      Against which ship do you see the cane as being OP vs?

      March 12, 2013 at 1:16 am Reply
      1. poepoepoe

        Sarcasm. Over your head clearly.

        March 12, 2013 at 2:58 am Reply
        1. FrontLineGrunt

          Sarcasm in response to sarcasm.

          Over your head doesn't quite get it.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:57 pm Reply
  6. Ashesofempires

    There is so much wrong with this, it's sad. To start: The Caracals had 18k EHP. The Hurricanes had 60k. The Hurricanes did 390 dps vs the Caracal's 300, and had neuts. They had similar ranges, so of course it's going to be a no-logi brawl, and of course a ship that does more dps and has over 3 times the EHP is going to come out on top. If the Caracals were range fit, they could have kited the hurricanes and probably come out on top.

    The nerfs to the Drake and Hurricane were to reduce their use en masse, as cannon fodder in large engagements. Drakes were too hard to kill (for their value), and Hurricanes, while soft, were too useful as capital and super-capital neut-ships, while still doing good dps. Their small gang effectiveness was only mildly nerfed. Massive EHP is really only useful to avoid being alpha'd off the field. In a small gang, all that really matters is that the one or two logi you brought can keep you repped. Having a ton of EHP really only means that the logi have more lee-way before they need to switch to you.

    The HML nerfs also helped to remove the 100km drake train, and pushed people into closer range setups that are less practical in large-scale fleet warfare.

    March 11, 2013 at 11:44 pm Reply
    1. Velvet

      Wts you hurricanes with grown man dps as you must have a bad batch with that kind of dps.

      March 12, 2013 at 12:44 am Reply
      1. Ashesofempires

        I don't need to buy hurricanes. I was comparing the dps of the hurricanes destroyed with the stats of the Caracals destroyed. The fact that ghetto fit hurricanes were able to do so well proves that they are still solid ships.

        March 12, 2013 at 1:45 am Reply
        1. poepoepoe

          The only thing it proves is that canes are better than caracals in brawler range..idiot.

          March 12, 2013 at 3:00 am Reply
    2. dreamer.

      Since im normaly flying shield tanked i can't talk about the others but

      Im expecting the Cyclone to be the next Big thing on the Fleet horisont.
      it will cover the old Cane hole as closerange brawler and neut ship.
      the cyclone realy shines with 2x Large Ancillary Shield boosters then its a monster.

      The cane well its ok for a welp fleet just remove the neuts and put a single salvager there :-) and be the loot whore its dps is still good not perfect but still good and the ship still is nice looking. It could still work very well as a armour tanked boat.

      The drake is well neuted by the cyclone in my opinion sure it have some higher dps with kinetic but against a cyclone fleet you don't know what to harden against so you have to omni harden instead of removing one omni for a kinetic. otherwise its still a fine ship and i haven't lost mine yet.

      the others i haven't tried out yet.

      March 13, 2013 at 12:25 pm Reply
    3. dani

      The Caracals had 18k EHP. The Hurricanes had 60k. The Hurricanes did 390 dps vs the Caracal's 300, and had neuts ….. …..

      Fail cane fit is fail 😀

      March 13, 2013 at 2:13 pm Reply
  7. Kiyohime Ronuken

    Seems the writer pointed out the results were predictable… and that the precious Drakes and Canes are still very useable.

    March 12, 2013 at 1:15 am Reply
    1. Gecko

      Ahm I bet if I took a gang of Myrmidons or harbingers vs a gang of close range canes or drakes the myrmidons and harbingers would win. Prior to the nerf this was not be the case.

      March 12, 2013 at 2:56 pm Reply
      1. FrontLineGrunt

        That'd be highly fit-dependent but the Harbinger is not to be underestimated. I actually preferred the old Myrm TBH… Too, the DPS didn't go down for the Drake or the Cane and HAM2 Drakes can still rip BCs apart in brawl range…

        March 12, 2013 at 7:01 pm Reply
      2. Because...

        How is that proving a nerf? Armor tanks can now compete with shield tanks? Oh the humanity.

        March 12, 2013 at 8:30 pm Reply
  8. you noob bro?

    Did you really just take 9 BC's up against 8 cruisers lose 2 of you BC's and call it a WIN???

    March 12, 2013 at 2:29 am Reply
    1. NEWSATSIX

      9 vs 7 even…fail.

      March 12, 2013 at 3:41 am Reply
      1. FrontLineGrunt

        9 vs 7 did not read the article. A roughly equal amount of isk was present on the field from both sides-unless you're completely ignoring the boosting Loki… Unfortunately there's no way to tell how much it cost but hull and cheap subs alone put it well over the Sleipnir….

        I think the point here was… even though the caracals were cheapER they're not CHEAP at all – averaging what 45M each when lost? If you're going out to fight, one of your goals has got to be to cause damage to the enemy such that your own losses are by comparison minimal. Whether you lose 10, they lose 5 and you win the isk war by a factor of 4 to 1 OR you go out and obliterate every last guy on the field with no losses you want to win the isk war.

        With the changes, lots of people assumed a 10 v 10 or 20 v 20 cruiser vs bc it might again be possible to win the isk war with cruisers, even if you got wiped. I'm not sure this is the case… Even though their hulls are cheaper, the meta and t2 modules put them on a similar footing isk-wise.

        March 12, 2013 at 4:38 pm Reply
        1. you blind bro?

          "9 vs 7 did not read the article"

          ROFL

          Try this on, 9 vs 8, some one must not know how to look at a picture and understand it. he put it in the middle of the article and you still can't see it, must be all those confusing words he wrote that you think I didn't read where he explains that they had 7 caracals and 1 fleet stabber.

          Would you like to borrow my glasses?

          8 BC's and a command ship = 9
          7 caracals and a fleet stabber = 8 cruisers

          Yeah there's also boosting loki in system, and as you can see by the way of the fleet getting completely decimated any way all it did was prolong the inevitable.

          There were still 9 BC's and they still raped the 8 cruisers, and you still can't count.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:52 pm Reply
    2. Because...

      You choose a name like that when you are simply looking at a hull class as the judgement, not ship types, fittings, player skill, etc. Sounds like a noob move to me.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:33 pm Reply
      1. you mad bro?

        T1 cruisers when fitted to fight at the same range as a BC that hits harder, has better fitting options, better range. better pvp dps (projectile vs missile), more drone hold space, more tank and better resists, and outnumbered will lose 99 times out of 100, with that 1 win coming coming from this "skill" you speak of, 1 on 1 maybe the cruiser pilot out flies a BC pilot but 8 BCs and a command ship ship should never lose to 8 cruisers, the cruisers may get 1 or 2 if the BC's are inept and the cruisers are flown well, but they will not get them all. So yes, the guy who thinks that fighting cruisers with better BC's is worth chest beating over is a noob.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:45 pm Reply
  9. Omen Nihilo

    STR8NGE BREW vs LAWN.

    Just as bad as I expected.

    March 12, 2013 at 2:54 am Reply
  10. Mercfromabove

    so basically the article is disproving the 'moaners and grunters' about the nerf because you have shown that a load of canes (and a sleipnir) can kill some caracals?

    I wonder if we got 9 Nyx's against 8 Thanatos's, see who would win (and hopefully two of the nyx's woudn't die like the canes did..LOL)

    March 12, 2013 at 3:07 am Reply
    1. orly?

      That'd be awesome. So here's how you do it-have one guy warp in and get some agro and drop to triage /immediate overheat. Warp the rest of the carriers around him and start the smartbomb discofest. Kill enough of the bombers and the Nyxes are meat on the table.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:06 pm Reply
    2. Because...

      Just have a Thanatos as bait, PL will drop probably more than 9 supers, and then you bring in your other 7 thanatos. Of course when you do that PL drops in eve MORE supers, but you have about 10 seconds of the matchup.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:27 pm Reply
  11. another loki down

    so I just read that a gang of BCs with greater numbers beat up a gang of cruisers. how is this news worthy?

    March 12, 2013 at 3:30 am Reply
  12. The_Oracle86

    Man oh man, STR8NGE BREW….. these jokers are more fail then Greedy Goblin. To prove the fail point:

    8BC's + 1 AttBC vs 7 Cara's + 1 SFI = Not a GF, nor worthy of an article

    Despite LAWN gallently losing all their ships they still managed to kill 2 Canes which have over twice the EHP of the cara's. What this means is that LAWN technically won this battle.

    And lastly, what's the point of this article? any joker with half a brain can up-ship and take out a hostile fleet thats smaller in both hull class and numbers. Implying that small gangs didn't work previously = Fail

    March 12, 2013 at 4:09 am Reply
    1. hic

      You're so elite you should be writing articles instead of reading them. It's a point of opinion – not meant to illuminate a glorious battle. You've completely missed the point and still insist on throwing the author under the bus.

      As you so succinctly put it – FAIL.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:14 am Reply
  13. Jaqalope

    sample size…

    p.s. news – how?

    March 12, 2013 at 4:28 am Reply
  14. Lumifragger

    Looks like brew had their pvp for this month

    March 12, 2013 at 7:27 am Reply
  15. Tia_85

    You can't count the Loki in the isk count. He would have been cloaked up in a safe with no intention of being in the fight.

    This just boils down to a bunch of canes, a sleipnir and a load of other bc's whelping an outnumbered T1 cruiser gang. Not exactly what you call elite Pvp.

    All that really happened to the cane was it was made slower and the carebears lost the ability to fit a salvager or tractor beam to it. The shield changes are negligible.

    March 12, 2013 at 10:32 am Reply
    1. FrontLineGrunt

      lol… wow you really have never PVPd at all have you?

      March 12, 2013 at 7:04 pm Reply
      1. Tia_85

        Nice troll.

        Care to justify that comment?

        March 12, 2013 at 7:20 pm Reply
  16. Fail Fairy

    Breaking news: 9 BC's can kill 8 Cruisers.

    March 12, 2013 at 12:25 pm Reply
  17. Loadabollocks

    So a fleet goes out looking to fight an inferior fleet and PL looks to spoil the fun? Tell me something I don't know!

    Oh, right….you lost 2 canes xD

    #pointlessshitigivenofucksabout

    March 12, 2013 at 12:46 pm Reply
    1. FrontLineGrunt

      You… you consider the things you give a [email protected]$#) about to be important outside your own head? lol…

      March 12, 2013 at 7:03 pm Reply
      1. cryptictosserabove

        what the fuck does that even mean?

        March 14, 2013 at 2:16 am Reply
    2. Because...

      Wow, did you really just hashtag, ffs go back to playing with your barbie and dreaming of being a princess.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:29 pm Reply
  18. TNT Grunt

    …whats next 8 destroyers versus 6 frigates 😛 ?

    March 12, 2013 at 2:43 pm Reply
  19. wreck

    this is news? what da hek is goin on in eve? nothing interesting?

    March 12, 2013 at 4:59 pm Reply
    1. FrontLineGrunt

      Hek is that way >>> I suggest making your way there via Amamake and Rancer if possible. There's a good market in Hek so you might want to fly a T1 hauler with armor plates in the lows – you know… dangerous pirates and all.

      Anyhow it wasn't a news article, it was an op-ed piece.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:58 pm Reply
    2. Because...

      Then write an article up you bloody troll or gtfo. Stop your bitching simply because you have nothing interest to say and/or you have no creative ability.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:31 pm Reply
  20. PL grunt

    News flash!

    T1 cruisers have no chance against T1 BCs in a stand up fight..

    This is news? Really?

    March 12, 2013 at 9:56 pm Reply
  21. What?

    Loki boosted caracal gang butchered in a brawl?

    Someone f***** up.

    March 13, 2013 at 8:36 am Reply
  22. Squinty McBlindy

    Gang of Battlecruisers kills smaller gang of cruisers.

    ZOMG!

    March 13, 2013 at 1:34 pm Reply
  23. dani

    Amazing you managed to lose two canes

    March 13, 2013 at 2:08 pm Reply

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