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One of the staples of internet spaceships press these days are the perennial articles about how to fix null sec whilst maintaining the current status quo with only a minor changes. Some ideas are more viable than others and yes, one will always bump with the “something like this is aimed to harm [insert any power-bloc name here]” accompanying reader commentary. What’s interesting is how few of those articles address the issue of the renting “mechanics” within EVE Online.

Opinions regarding renting differ; some people swear it’s voodoo and therefore should be banished from the face of New Eden while the supporters say it is a good way for “lesser alliances” to contribute and experience null-sec gameplay first hand while enforcing a “bottom-up” income source for larger entities.

Rent?

Renting alliances and corporations – Believe it or not they are the true architects of current Null sec. I dare say this because I have direct relationships with renting corporations for my coalition (One with a ton of russians). I am not the leader of the renting team, but I still deal with renters on a daily basis while trying to attract new ones. The reason behind me calling renters architects is simple; every time I start negotiations with a potential renting corporation they always ask the same question: “Can I build a station in that system?” or “Can I have JB/Cyno Gen/Cyno Jammer installed somewhere close to my rented space”. Shadow of xXDEATHXx, renting alliance of Legion of xXDEATHXx can be a good example since they constructed the majority of the outposts within the drone regions.

I understand that CFC for example or HBC aren’t “drifting in the same ship” since they are building the infrastructure on their own. They do not need any income from renters while having moons, but you have to remember that regions belonging to the coalitions mentioned above used to have renters. Renting is not a recent invention. It has existed for some time. Almost as long as the art of scamming.

Renters (noun) – Those poor souls that put a lot of effort into supplying a variety of ships, mods and other stuff that we all use in Null sec or empire. They kill rats, loot, salvage, reprocess and build. All those faction dead space modules you see in Jita are owned by renters running complexes or ratting in belts.

Outposts (noun) – When an alliance leader hears this word, the first thing that enters  his mind is the Gallente outpost. Who wouldn’t love an outpost with a few bonus offices? As long as they have a view. The ability to stage more troops in a single system is every leaders dream. Meanwhile renters consider all four types of outposts and build the one that suits their needs most of all. Their needs are based on what activity they doing in the surrounding systems (mining, rat hunting, manufactoring, researching).

Building (verb) Outposts (noun) – Landlord will try not to waste ISK on building outposts but if he had to the scenario would be the following: Open a Dotlan and see which systems cover most of regions within his titan’s bridge range. That would be normal behavior for a military person. He would then try to stage his troops as close as possible the the various potentialbattlegrounds.

Renters on the other hand would also see what the constellation is good for, what type of stations are close to it and what type of infrastructure it is missing. He would then install the missing type of outpost or he would check if the system has enough production or research outposts. If he finds they those outposts can’t keep up, he will construct another of the same type.

Trading (verb) – Trading is also one of most profitable ventures to get involved  in Null sec. Most people tend to keep trading alts while some train the skills themselves. The bring in goods from the Empire market and sell it in Null sec with a little slice of profit added to the price.

Renters have a different approach. Once I had my alt in renting corporation just to carebear on the side while we were on deployment. I saw very interesting things while being a member of that corporation. CEO of said corp was purchasing minerals, salvage and loot from corp members for prices slightly lower than in Jita. With those, he was producing T2 modules, T1 rigs and selling them within the same region for less than the traders would. this created a very nice chain where everyone was happy – Minders and Salvagers could sell minerals immediately without even bothering to move them, PVPers could fit their ships for a decent price and have a nonstop supply of modules.
Landlord alliance of course have their own income to keep SRP running and ships exploding. This is win-win situation if you ask me.

BOTTOM UP & TOP TO BOTTOM INCOME


We all say that bottom up income is much better. It is great for the individual pilot. Everyone wants to be rich.

BUT!

Null sec alliance has a very nice feature called SRP aka Ship Replacement Program. Now imagine that you have a peace. You rat carelessly and a small part of the bounty you get from NPCs goes to your corporation’s wallet. You are rich, and your alliance has an income.

Now, take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

The income you generate is nowhere near enough to keep the bills for infrastructure paid. In this case you have no jump bridges, it takes ages for your alliance to upgrade system you run sanctums. Finally, SRP is limited to specific ships and specific amounts. In order to increase corporation or alliance income they have to increase tax rate. Thus lowering your income. Moreover, we have not even got to worst part yet. Worst thing is that your PVP activity is limited. Now imagine a war breaks out. Enemy pushes you and your FC derps fleet after fleet (Opa Gangam DBRB Style). Your alliance’s wallet slowly depletes. To fill it back up and keep fights running alliance leaders are forced to call CTP (Call To Pitchforks). Can you people imagine an alliance wide carebear op? Do you actually think this is what you want? Who will benefit from this? I play this game to blow ships up and not NPCs! This type of thing will not encourage your FCs to ignite conflicts and run fleets. Every time your ship will explode, you will rage. I can only guess as to why people want to see bottom up type on income – Your alliance CEOs that spend ISK generated from resources alliance possessions are unable to clearly see what that money isk is spent on. Those are main reasons people want to see bottom up income.

Still, even now this type of income exists – Renters pilot rats generating ISK for his corp wallet > corp pays that ISK to landlord > landlord spends ISK on alliance needs (infrastructure bill, SRP etc.).

Fact that you cannot see how ISK is spent has nothing to do with ISK generating mechanics. Bottom up sounds like a chance to get rich, but even this is very short sighted approach. More rich pilots -> more ISK spent on goods -> inflation.

Personally I feel that the issue lies not in the way ISK flows, but in the way it is generated. Moons, mining belts and sites. They should not be static. Regions should gain and lose resources so alliance leaders will always have to defend or conquer different regions. I would not go into details since I still don’t have clear understanding of how things are done here, all I can say is that those things must be reviewed by CCP and tweaked a bit (maybe a lot).

- Sergo

50 Comments

  1. iskbot#1337

    it´s worth reading … especially after the gobling-bullshit

    March 6, 2013 at 3:24 pm Reply
    1. wreck

      lol

      March 6, 2013 at 5:01 pm Reply
    2. I see You

      Hello Thor….try to make yourself not so recognizable

      March 6, 2013 at 5:51 pm Reply
  2. Null-Sec Player

    The description you give for 'Trading' is always how I've tried to set things up. The problem is that someone always gets greedy. You cant cover the whole market, so you end up with a bottleneck that someone exploits heavily.

    You try to fill the gaps, but find your own corp/alliance mates sabotaging you with excuses like 'My JF cost me 6bil, i need to get that money back!' Reasonable, but at whos expense??

    Many ppl I know in null just end up giving up on trying to do the right thing when they see others raking in the isk.

    Eve is a harsh world, and I dont see that changing anytime soon.

    The only way to stop it is having extremely dedicated leadership who spend mountains of time handling lots of issues – sadly, eventually they burn out and you return to square one.

    I think that basically, over time we've reached a point of stagnation. I dont see a quick fix either. Personally, I think its in the hands of the bloc leadership. Some good, some bad, getting them all on the same page to fix this that will satisfy everyone is probably impossible. RMT to blame is what I've heard is the real reason. I see RMT as a serious problem, but again, leadership could fix this if they chose to. Will they though? And this is just the beginning of fixing things.

    Who is prepared to put in the monumental effort to sort it all out that benefits EVE, not just personal or corp/alliances?? Selfless acts at that level arent impossible, but they arent common either.

    Staged conflicts like those about to go down between TEST/CFC and the deployments are just band-aids. The 'Sov grind is boring' may be true, but its a poor excuse. Its like saying shooting ships in anoms is boring. Again, true but we do it anyways because thats the game we play.

    I want no part of staged anything.

    March 6, 2013 at 3:34 pm Reply
    1. whatever

      >>"Many ppl I know in null just end up giving up on trying to do the right thing when they see others raking in the isk. "

      Burn you faggot communists! Or at least we were told so IRL.

      March 7, 2013 at 5:58 am Reply
    2. grunt

      I still think most null could be fixt by reseting all sov and not like they did last time months in advance letting us all know about it so that once DT is over we all can place TCU's plus at the same time juggle up the moons and maybe dont do hole null in one go but this could remove some stagnation.

      Personally I dont think eve is that stagnant look at the n3/solar war this will soon escalate to CFC/HBC getting involved and it wil be all out war

      March 7, 2013 at 8:44 am Reply
      1. Null-Sec Player

        I'm in the Solar war and its stagnant. We dont fight half as much as we could. Solar not turning up for fights or standing down. FAZOR are just as much a joke.

        Escalate?? Yeah right, escalate into pretend, staged conflicts. Deployment, lol, making pointless fights.

        March 7, 2013 at 5:01 pm Reply
        1. Veldspoleum

          Confirming this. Unless you are a super grinding structures, the Solar War isn't amounting to a whole lot right now.

          March 7, 2013 at 9:40 pm Reply
  3. Alifikduzimir

    I disagree with the articles characterization of renters.
    Of all entity types in sov 0.0 they are the bottom in the pecking order. They are not "architects of 0.0", more like interior decorators at best. Their vision is typically as small as their power and doesn't go beyond measures to optimize their ISK making.

    Also "more ISK spent on goods -> inflation" is just plaing wrong. There's more stuff in the article that is debatable. Not impressed.

    March 6, 2013 at 4:10 pm Reply
    1. rane

      you know a coral reef is made of infent amount of micro organizems but u can still see the great barier reef from space. i think that most of the station where palced by renters. becoss thay use a much smaller zone and are much more localized

      March 6, 2013 at 7:06 pm Reply
    2. Ashesofempires

      Architect was probably a poor word choice. Keep in mind that this article is probably at least partially translated from Russian (RED Orchestra contributed it), and they probably don't know all the colloquial meanings that native English speakers have attached to the word 'architect.' He meant architect in that renters placed the majority of 0.0 outposts, and that the rental alliances of the past are responsible for today's 0.0 landscape. My own experience bears this out: the corporation I was in paid for a large chunk of the outpost in Y-2AN0 in Fountain. The corporation is no longer there, neither is BoB, but the Outpost is.

      If you Imagine EVE as a sprawling city, rental corporations and alliances are like subdivision planners. They are only concerned with their own small section of the city, be it a single star system or a constellation. Renters are trying to maximize their cashflow, both for their own personal use and to offset the rent that they pay their landlord. In return, the landlord uses a portion of the money they are paid to provide essential services (jump bridges, access to regional stations and markets, intel channels, and protection). People bag on renters for being unable to defend themselves and for renting alliances for being unable to protect their tenants, but it's a cold, hard fact of EVE that it's near impossible to stop people from roaming in and fucking up your day.

      The point the author of this article is trying to convey is that not all rental agreements are detrimental to the game. Renters who work to improve the economic viability of their landlord's space are good for the game. Unfortunately those are rare, with most simply there to grind moons, space rocks, and pirate ships to make a buck before their landlord gets replaced by someone else and they have to move or re-negotiate the lease. He also makes the point that not every alliance can lean on things like moon mining to pay for all of the things alliances want to do. There's this strange, yet growing, trend in EVE for alliances to strip away all of their industrial activities as "weak carebear crap" while neglecting the fact that without some sort of income, they do not have the funds to sustain their space-viking ways. Since living off of the pillage of one's enemies is a dubious prospect, that means generating income through one of three ways: exporting moon goo, an industrial base, or a rental agreement. Guess which one is the easiest to implement? Yeah, renting. Why is it easy? Because when you out-source your industrial activities to another entity, you can replace them at will when you decide they aren't working hard enough, or playing well with others, or simply if you don't like the cut of their jib. (nautical reference FTW).

      Moon mining is only effective in one part of the cluster, and industrial activity means that you have to bring carebears into your warrior society, diluting your strength (carebears don't fight, because they are too busy making money). Say what you will about BoB, for a long time they knew that a strong industrial arm was important to their continued supremacy. Because of that, they had a vast T2 production system as well as a near monopoly on neodymium. They used this to provide themselves with T2 ships, modules, and capital ships at a pace that outstripped anyone else. Before they overextended and exhausted themselves in their bid to conquer Goonswarm and RA, they knew how to fund their activities.

      Of course, Industrial activity causes discord in the rank-and-file, as the line grunts see people carebearing it up while they are struggling , and accuse people of not contributing. Never mind that the ships and mods they are using were either built or bought, and transported to their staging area, the jump bridges, POSes, jump fuel, as well as most of the capitals and supercapitals were provided by industrial activity. That doesn't count towards the war effort, so those carebears need to go. So why not strip away all of the discord, and outsource your industrial activity to renters who do their thing and provide you with the means to simply buy what you need.

      March 6, 2013 at 11:56 pm Reply
      1. Dark

        Very well said and I agree 100%. Null alliances just don't get how important a strong industrial base is to a war effort. It wasn't just great strategy and fighting that won WW2 for the allies. It was the enormous industrial effort to supply the fighting men with the stuff they needed that really made the difference.

        Buying everything in Jita and having it hauled out is a real pain in the ass. I would much prefer having everything I need on market in a station close to me and totally avoid even having to go to hi sec.

        March 8, 2013 at 6:12 am Reply
  4. derp a derpa

    Its well known some of the russian renters pay in rl cash via paypal for sov Fact

    March 6, 2013 at 4:43 pm Reply
    1. Hahaha

      Prove it

      March 6, 2013 at 5:58 pm Reply
      1. Drengis

        twitter /ShadooEVE/status/307562103668092930

        March 6, 2013 at 7:51 pm Reply
  5. TEST grunt

    Renters are horrible and should feel bad.. SRP??? For what they never fight unless this is for Ratting SRP. Natural Selecction is the only path for renters.

    March 6, 2013 at 4:56 pm Reply
    1. l2p

      You've missed the point SRP goes to land owners to pay for coalition/alliance SRP. Not everyone has a Top > Down Income source of moons to support their fleets.

      March 6, 2013 at 5:46 pm Reply
      1. TEST grunt

        Yea and you missed mine, Renting pubbies don't fight>>> Drone regions case in point. This is just an example of All renters high priorites and why they deserve no space.
        is my system upgraded?
        Check What level? Check
        How many jumps to empire? Check.
        Being cloakie camped 24/7 :(
        Crying and beggging for not being able to Jew anoms 24/7 Check

        March 6, 2013 at 8:28 pm Reply
        1. wow

          Dunno who your referring to as renters, DRC was not "renters" meatshield yes. poor, Yes, not fighting, hmm thats interesting, we lived there 10 months, almost everyday cta's for something or another sov related whether it was our own or a blue neighbor, But your in Test so I wouldnt expect an educated type response.

          March 6, 2013 at 10:37 pm Reply
  6. Great Builder

    The current renting system is pure evil. It is perfect for botters and bot software developers/dealers to launder ISK. The coalition structure gives them a huge base of customers. It also makes the money flow a problem. The leaders of big coalitions are like drug dealers or oil sheiks. They get so much money, they have no clue, what to do with it anymore, until they discover RMT.

    the renting systm has to go and moon mining need to be ring mining with mixed minerals. Remove local. let supers dock in special stations. Sov components need to be reduced for less timers, more modular. Allow everybody to dock in a station. CCP always say they want to make Eve more realistic. Well, create cities.

    And there need to be a regulation, whihc kills mega-alliances, oligarchies and blue donut.

    March 6, 2013 at 5:18 pm Reply
    1. l2p

      docking supers, lol. the idea is to decrease the number of supers, not allow them to play station games, not to protect them.

      March 6, 2013 at 5:45 pm Reply
      1. great builder

        yes and btw. take away all their offensive weapons

        March 6, 2013 at 6:12 pm Reply
        1. 1337bittervet

          lol, gtfo you pubbie scrublord

          March 6, 2013 at 10:48 pm Reply
          1. Great Builder

            it would solve the problem with SC can only contered with a bigger blob of SC – and oh they are so valuable that 99 % of the time everybody chickens out instead of fighting. It is one of the game mechanics which hurts the game. It is very bad to have a superweapon, which only can afford the wealthiest.

            March 7, 2013 at 4:40 pm
      2. Teq

        They want to play station games just blow up the station =p

        March 7, 2013 at 8:17 am Reply
    2. makalu cries alright

      You may be talking about the north, west and Solar's area but the south has very few moons for income as compared to tech.
      Renting has ALWAYS been used in the south as its the only way to catch up to Tech and when the dronelands had alloyed poop. VFK and most of the north and west are so close to Jita and highsec as opposed to the south where it can be 6-8 JF jumps before your even near a major market. Since you have to claim SOOOOOO much space to have access to markets how are you to pay for said space? Cant leave it unclaimed like solar did for safety. Your forces can only use so much of it for personal income why not get some income for multiple systems at 1 time?

      If you look at how rent prices are you can see 1 renter pays for an ENTIRE constellation with some left over. Most people will say SRP, Ore buy programs ect. are the norm for most alliances, and if you dont have them they move on till an alliance they like has one.
      Renting is not the problem but RMT is and just as much income comes from moons as renting so if you remove renting the moons must follow…….its only fair.

      March 6, 2013 at 11:34 pm Reply
      1. Great builder

        I know, I was a short time in that pathetic alliance, which you are referring to. Gad that it is finally dead and the botters all had to relocate. It is always great to slaughter them, when they become vulnerable, because their overlord loses control. AAA did before that end war botting for years in South in their "renter" alliance – like Solar in Drone regions and RA in Insmother etc. I heard some shitty AAA RMT lords sorry excuses "the others have these Tech, so we cheat to even it out." Makes me everytime mad, when I hear this bullshit. Either you fight for your space in 0.0 or you do not deserve it. I never gave some overlord rent, shitty crony capitalism That is totally unnecessary and only works for players, who are stupid or have other interests in the game RMT or exploit 0.0 as renter somewhere under cover, while they fight a war in another region far away.

        March 7, 2013 at 4:37 pm Reply
  7. Oska Rus

    Your explanation of bottom down vs. bottom up lacks logic. But othervise this article gave me better insight into nullsec alliance economy.

    March 6, 2013 at 5:41 pm Reply
  8. Maid

    Renters provide what HBC and the CFC want yet somehow can't seem or want to implement. Production and trading in Null sec with local resources. It's far from efficient, but some for alliances and corps it works. Pvpers get cheap Jita priced goods and are happy, the PvErs can run all the stuff they want and mine all the belts they can or produce and trade like bosses.

    March 6, 2013 at 6:13 pm Reply
  9. Selina

    Tell me I'm wrong by all means, but I think the OP missed the basis of a bottom up system. From what I'm reading, what you're describing is basically trying to apply bottom up income to our current top down sovereignty system….which of course doesn't work. o.0

    March 6, 2013 at 6:39 pm Reply
  10. The real Deal

    And this is why I think CVA and Providence work so well. There is NO rent paid to anyone period. Space is free to rat and mine in, upgrades are made by the Corp owning the system. It is a one time fee, and then it works forever. One rule, shoot only those who would shoot you.

    Providence has no SRP to speak of, yet they all somehow find a way to show up and brawl. This is the problem with the bigger coalitions, they have to pay their members with SRP just to get them to show up, Providence does not, the show up to play the game and have fun.

    You want to afk cloaky camp you say? No worries camp this system anyone is free to pack up and move to one that is not camped unlike the bigger coalitions where space is allocated where who and what can do this and that. Cloaky camps mean fuck all, it is easy to move to another system.

    There is no riches in Providence, no Neo moons, Tech moons, Dypso moons whatever. Cobalt out the ass, which makes it easy to pay for Sov thanks to the tech cartel.

    New to Eve you say, want to move into 0.0 you say, dont want to be extorted for rent you say, move to Providence and learn how to 0.0. Over half of Eve started out in one shape or form in Providence.

    What the bigger coalitions fail to do is require their members to be self sufficient, unlike Providence where each man is responsible for his or her own ship everyone else has it handed to them on a silver platter, showered in SRP so they can show up and blob out the system and enjoy their TIDI.

    This is where the massive blobbed up blued up Coalitions fail hard, you dont need 5 regions to live in, you dont need to conquer half of Eve to thump your chest and proclaim at the top of your lungs your uber eilite. All you need is a single region and some people who are not challenged by ADD to go in and build something and require your members to be responsible for themselves, instead you provide for them the Obama subsidy program, and then cry over not wanting to fight each other because of 17 regions of grind.

    This is what you have grown yourselves into, this is how you have patty caked yourselves into being, one big huge blob that would fall apart at the first sign of having to do something on your own without free Tech income and Free rental income.

    The big coalitions have no self worth, no sense of accomplishment, ANYONE can own a moon and suck it dry of free resources, and use those resources to build the biggest capital fleets ever amassed, and stockpile hundreds of thousands of ships and mods, but not many people can organize a spot in Eve where self worth and self accomplishment shines bright without all the freebies spoon fed to them at every turn.

    I wonder what would happen if Tech wasnt king and renters wouldnt rent? People might have to actually play the game for once and wars wouldnt take 2 days to win, and months of structures to grind.

    March 6, 2013 at 7:22 pm Reply
    1. Some guy

      Provi is shit and so is CVA, though I do like finding the random afk freighter pilot autopiloting from KBP7 to 9uy from time time.

      March 6, 2013 at 8:17 pm Reply
      1. makalu cries alright

        Provi forces are not very good at pvp I give you that, but on the other hand they provide small corps, alliances areas to utilize similar to what npc space has but on a higher end due to upgrades, ect.
        Also in the south that is the richest area for pvp. You have the inexperienced stepping out into 0.0 and CVA and gang fighting like how IRC did "go kill them or drive them off then space Jew some more".

        Most major alliances came to provi to learn the ropes case and point NC. first claimed sov in provi, Test way back in the day lived there for a short time till goons took them under their wings. White Noise, IAC, Ushrakhan, Hell even goons at one point took some sov in provi.

        It is quite frankly the best 0.0 area to learn as a small alliance vs. NPC 0.0. It has no highend moons nor does it have the truesec level to attract the major players to the area other than to travel or pvp.

        March 6, 2013 at 11:18 pm Reply
  11. well well well...

    One of solars renters contacted us after BCA failcascaded, offering to rent from us. They asked if PayPal would be ok to use, since they had been paying Solar around $460 a month to rent. RMT for rent is the problem with renting.

    March 6, 2013 at 7:39 pm Reply
    1. Justchecking

      Do you have those logs or something?
      Do you even have a screen shot?
      Anything at all that can prove it?
      If so, either give them to CCP or if they can't use them then make them public.
      Unless you do either of those 2 then ill have to take your post as fake/troll…

      March 6, 2013 at 8:28 pm Reply
      1. Jesus

        you are one of these Americans, who watch CNN and Faux News and think it is all true somehow, what they tell you. open your eyes, check what your fellow renters do and suddenly you see things, which are wierd. Problem is, that is work of course and you just play a game…

        March 7, 2013 at 4:46 pm Reply
  12. They cant implement it cause they are known for being scammers and are known for scamming ppl who want to rent..

    March 6, 2013 at 9:03 pm Reply
  13. whatever

    >>"This type of thing will not encourage your FCs to ignite conflicts and run fleets. Every time your ship will explode, you will rage."

    He doesnt need to ignite anything. When your ship explodes and you rage – that is the conflict already. As opposed to boredome of: oh my ship just exploded, I need to submit for SRP now :-((
    Meaningful conflict is meaningful, nuff said.
    Thanks for OP for proving top-down income is crap.

    March 7, 2013 at 6:07 am Reply
  14. They should change 0.0 so you have to actually use the space to hold the keys to the system. If you dont live in it and use it, you lose it…

    That is all…

    March 7, 2013 at 9:23 am Reply
  15. Put in Effort or GFO

    The only people who say that Sov needs to be "fixed" are the people who foolishly joined the wrong alliances and got spanked. Be clever, understand that if you are not a PvPer you will never do well in null sec, the land of PvP. Learn to PvP, put effort into it every day and then try and join an alliance that is known for PvP. Or join a renting alliance belonging to an alliance that is known for PvP, so that you have a chance for the future. If you can't be bothered to do this then that is what missioning in high sec is for.

    March 7, 2013 at 9:40 am Reply
    1. Evil Freddy

      it is the opposite. If you are a PVPer, you are often wrong in big 0.0 alliances. Because being an active PVPer takes a lot of personal initiative and that can be achieved best, if you are NOT in a blue donut, i.e. more targets or less dummies slow you down.. If you get in a 200 man fleet i.e. 50 kills with 150 other guys on it, that is not really your own PVP achievement. you just were an obedient F1 drone like your great leader wants you to be.

      March 7, 2013 at 4:28 pm Reply
      1. -_-

        No one wants to hear about how you flew a frig in FW and think you are a PvPer. Null sec alliances is where the pros are. Carebears who like to pretend are else where.

        March 7, 2013 at 9:08 pm Reply
  16. SILENTSAM69

    Get DUST 514 involved with SOV to add more to the mix. Make its impact significant, without being overbearing. Enough that it lets groups take advantage of it.

    March 7, 2013 at 11:15 am Reply
    1. Get out

      That would kill EVE. I should not have to depend on 12 yr old pubbies in another game to take space.

      March 7, 2013 at 11:03 pm Reply
      1. CommanderBolt

        Excuse me! There are a sizable amount of 'dusties' that are eve players / mature gamers (hah that's kinda funny to say out loud, eve player and mature :P)

        March 8, 2013 at 7:18 am Reply
  17. Renters?

    I've yet to hear about the story of ex-renters of solar who wanted to renew renting contract with the current sov holder PL. Paypal and 400-500 usd/month were mentioned.

    March 7, 2013 at 11:33 am Reply
  18. dreamer.

    Honestly they can and should fix the bottom up approach.
    here is how i would have fixed it.

    a# have a corp tax and a alliance tax that way the alliance cost for SRP can be coverd by that tax. the alliance tax should be variable on different corps. (example: corp 15% alliance 10% total 25% so if someone rat and gain say 2B a month he payed 200m of it alliance and 300m to the corp).

    b# have the corps own the starsystem not a holders corp, this is easily fixed by having the cost for sov increase exponentialy this also should have a way to hand over a system within a alliance to another corp (harder fix). by doing this the cost for the sov ends up on the corps not the alliance. and this change also put a pressure on alliances to only take on corps that they can trust since they hold some of your space.

    c# moon mining as a passive income should be no more then padding, most of the material the moon miner produce should be rocks around the moon that mining ship could harvest. the harvester should still produce some goo but not 100% like now just something that make its worth doing.

    d# industry in nullsec should be more viable without the hassle, right now you harvest in null and build capitals/supers there but the rest you import/export from highsec. Null should be indipendant.

    renters well in my vision you don't have them. they are members of your alliance and pays for the land there alliance tax might be higher then the rest but they are part of the same alliance.

    March 7, 2013 at 1:59 pm Reply
  19. heinrich1

    CANT WAIT TO BE A MINER IN DUST 514 :D

    March 11, 2013 at 12:20 am Reply
  20. Walter

    On the topic of revamping Sov, wouldn’t moving to something like the FW system (tho clearly revamp’d for NPC-less null). iHub bashes aren’t terrible, even without capital support, making them possible (tho difficult, time consuming and risky) for smaller (10-20) gangs. The mechanics of timers in FW space are smaller and less of a beating to deal with. They also work with small to large gangs of ships, so it scales nicely.

    Obviously it can’t be a 1:1 mapping of functionality, and some thought would need to be put into preventing ‘farming’ (perhaps simply taking the sov is the reward, but then null sov get expensive/hard to maintain.)

    March 11, 2013 at 7:45 pm Reply

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