retribution_ships

Gevlon Globin is famous in the Word of Warcraft circle for having mastered the “gold cap”. His EVE journey show a very interesting “outside the box” approach to the game, PVE and the trade hubs, reason for which we invite you to pay a visit to his blog.

The EVE blogosphere has a new, extremely annoying theme: “the little guy can’t compete”. Two probable CSM candidates, Mynnna and Ripard Teg are already on the bandwagon.

The story goes as “the space (sov-null, C5-6s) is already taken by large players and newcomers can’t compete”. Of course like every bullshit debate, it has two equally wrong sides, one claims that CCP should make the mechanics supporting coexistence of alliances of various sizes while the other claims that newcomers should take space by fire, the same way Goons took from BoB and TEST did from SoCo.

The debate is even more wrong than the non-consensual PvP one. The reason for it is that neither the large power actors, nor the small, weak alliances are guys. The pilots are players. The corporations and alliances are not.

Now, if players who started after 2008 would all be in highsec as all nullsec alliances would be veteran-only who don’t take them, we’d have a problem to debate. But as long as a few weeks old players can join practically every color existing on the map, there is no problem. Due to the purposefully messed up economy of EVE nullsec, the only resource on this theater is players. Nullsec is a place where you spend the money you PLEX-ed or earned on your highsec alts. The more land you have, the more you have to spend. For this reason, an upcoming alliance with more players can always take land from an existing one with less.

The reason why no upcoming alliances break into the map is simply that they suck and players choose not to join them. When you say “X corp is struggling against Y”, it doesn’t mean that players in X are in trouble and need help from CCP. It means that the leadership of X is crap and the members are better off without them. Demanding CCP to help “small alliances” is actually demanding help for a handful of bossy nerds to become more pixel-important, to force players to be their minions.

SoCo – once home to 20K+ players – crumbled and disappeared without a trace. Does it mean 20K+ players lost the game and forced to quit or reroll as newbies? Of course not. Most of them are living in the same stations, just under different colors. Hell, Makalu himself, the de facto leader of SoCo found a new home in Pandemic Legion and soon will happily hotdrop the same ratters as before and can yell “you don’t talk back to PL” to the same blues. Of course some corp and alliance leaders lost their power. But who cares about failed bossy nerds?

– Gevlon Goblin

101 Comments

  1. BntyHunter

    Sorry, Im in one of the "Older more established groups" and its against my interests to agree with the guys saying its hard for the new guys who are independant to grab space, but its true.

    Without a major group like HBC CFC N3 Solar its almost impossible. Seriously name some truly independants who are SOV holders….Hell lets take BL. They have a Mini Block of buddies and are about as good as it gets in PVP and they still seem very hard pressed to gain SOV.

    Without being what we consider a "Pet" it is almost impossible to own space. hell the Infrastructure alone is so damned expensive, it really is hard to just afford it without carebearing as a group for months.

    It seems like all the Indy`s are being broken apart.

    Part of this is simply Eve`s age, as the older GSF Test PL NCDOT players get older they get more and more ISK making younger guys almost impossible to keep up as I said before with a few trillion ISK just a solid safe investment makes more than they could by 23/7 Ratting over 20 Systems.

    @Goblin, let me just say BL DOES NOT SUCK…Scrap Iron DOES NOT SUCK, Evoke DOES NOT SUCK. VoC, RnK etc etc all could have been the cream of SOV in 05 and even with there small numbers would have been major SOV players. But not know. So please dont tell me they suck and its why they dont have SOV.

    The demand for help for smaller ALli`s is simply because these guys think the game is already rigged for larger ones, so they dont want handouts they want the ability to use there small size to advantage, and right now there isnt many advantages.

    In RL you can use your small size raiding and robbing things like Enemy banks, or enemy Caches but in Eve how can you Rob a station? How can you rob a Moon mining plant?

    Until that changes there is no advantage to smaller numbers.

    As it sits 10k NCDOT pilots will always beat our 2k Pilots in EVERY SINGLE WAY, and until they make things ingame to where the same pilots in smaller numbers could compete in different ways, it is broken IMO.

    February 13, 2013 at 1:47 am Reply
    1. Shana_Zera

      A new in-game mechanic that gives smaller groups an advantage over larger groups… hmm….
      I'm starting to wonder what that could be if such a mechanic could exist, it sounds quite appealing. :)

      February 13, 2013 at 1:57 am Reply
      1. Gam_Samgee

        The problem with any mechanic that benefits small groups can be disproportionately exploited by larger groups. Lots of mechanics h ave been proposed and none of them solely benefit small groups. If only 20 people can fight over sov in any one system, then a 30K coalition can overwhelm smaller entities by hitting every system at once. Say we limit economic activity like we do in incursions, this still doesn't impact large groups because then they just run more of them at once. To break up fleet fights, maybe only 50 people can lock any one target, but then the 500 man blob just has 10 targets and still murders the 200 man blob.

        February 13, 2013 at 3:19 am Reply
      2. The_Oracle86

        Maybe limit the amount of sov any one alliance can have, or the more systems you have, the isk value goes up exponentially making it not worth it to go past a certain point no matter how many moons you have. Also make it so you can only mine moons within your sov in null sec!!! now theres an idea……

        Moons fucked sov up incredibly they never should've made moons the way they are. Passive income is always a bad idea in any mmo. Not only do these blobs have such blobagge it makes it hard to fight, but they also control the t2 market as well. Fucking moons i tell ya……..

        February 13, 2013 at 6:26 am Reply
      3. bloggerscirlcejerk

        there already is. it is called supercapital.

        February 14, 2013 at 12:41 am Reply
    2. meh?

      so how come elite pvp alliances like BL cant hold sov and yet terribad yet relativally small alliances like CVA can still hold sov?

      February 13, 2013 at 2:16 am Reply
      1. scurvy

        Because BL has no interest in SOV. Point of BL is to get fights and ruin days. With SOV you are stuck, you limit what you can do. This is lessoned when you are a massive alliance. But when you shit on as many people as BL you won't hold that sov for long unless your in the pants of one of the major power blocks. Lets just take the CFC's recent blockade of K3 with 75+ carriers on undock for 23/hours a day for 4 days. No one can match that or wants too.

        Point is a small alliance cannot hold SOV on its own accord, the super caps in the game have made that impossible.

        February 13, 2013 at 2:32 am Reply
        1. another RA pilot

          are you saying that a small alliance should be able to successfully defend their space against half of Eve population?

          February 13, 2013 at 5:15 am Reply
      2. CptA

        It's because they're the only people who want to hold Providence…..

        February 13, 2013 at 3:20 am Reply
      3. cva got space got provis shit an noone wants to live there cept them

        February 13, 2013 at 3:20 am Reply
        1. The Observer

          because provi is no better than TGW when it comes to resources. only difference is that there are stations.

          February 13, 2013 at 4:02 am Reply
      4. The Observer

        Alliances like Black Legion would rather not hold sov. They're taking after PL, who don't waste money on sov, but spend most of their time recruiting super pilots and defending their space gold, aka moon goo. It may not have been the best example to use, but others like Evoke are a rather shining example of a very skilled alliance with not enough members to defend themselves against the blob.

        February 13, 2013 at 4:05 am Reply
        1. Noisrevbus

          You make it sound as if PL never took the same journey and came to the same realization…

          … as did N3, Neocurse or whoever else. All those coalitions are teeming with corporations and former trifecta-PvP (roam, drop, pirate) alliances who did the same thing as PL (or Evoke) used to do.

          Where do you think these Super pilots primarily come from? They may have picked up a couple of coalition-level corporations recently, but i'd argue that the majority of their playerbase (and primary recruitment-pool) still come from marginalized corporation- and alliance level actors. The kind of self-governed pilots that grew tired of seeing less and less strategy letting them compete with numbers, while more and more targets were stripped away from them.

          February 13, 2013 at 7:10 pm Reply
      5. Guy

        The two relatively independent alliances holding space (CVA and Brick) only hold a small amount of worthless space with multiple region and empire gates, which means that both regions are subject to constant hostile traffic. Brick also doesn't actually own any of the moons in their own region. Added to this is the fact that both these alliances know that they're living on borrowed time. It's only a matter of when some big coalition decides to beat down their TCU's.

        If you want to play the sov game you need to join a big coalition. n3 is probably the pick of the bunch if you want to have at least some level of independence but you're still a part of a coalition at the end of the day.

        Actually to quote the article – "Demanding CCP to help “small alliances” is actually demanding help for a handful of bossy nerds to become more pixel-important, to force players to be their minions." Have you seen the kind of hazing that's been going on in the CFC? That's why alliances like BL want no part of it and is also why the sov system as it currently stands sucks.

        February 13, 2013 at 6:06 am Reply
        1. Fiberton

          CVA is the Oldest Alliance in Eve. People have been banging on CVA for ever and a day. Yet they still remain. The splerg of boys to men with collapsing Empires scream " CVA is shit " yet their alliance do not exist any longer. If the litmus test was for length of existence then no one can say shit about CVA. Video Games are not real :)

          February 13, 2013 at 8:26 am Reply
          1. PLguy

            Fiberton STFU
            ushra'khan is the oldest alliances in eve
            RA is shit, and so are you

            February 13, 2013 at 1:49 pm
          2. Fiberton

            A person who is not in PL says he is PL nice but is in Ushra`Khan. Low stop that :)
            O no RA is blahblah and I am blahblah in a video game nice. Let us work out your feelings :) Tell me where did RA touch you ? …So Your 5 days older than CVA..and you both ROLEPLAY CVA has a vast empire…ok that fits ok too in what I was saying :) Works for me.. I expect full UK rage on my comms today.They are cool guys though. So have LOW put on extra rage .. fly safe 07

            February 13, 2013 at 2:13 pm
          3. Low

            Fiberton, that wasnt me, Low. But yes UNITY is the oldest alliance. but there is no one in UNITY that wouldnt state that CVA, much like Ushra'Khan, have survived their ups and downs.

            February 13, 2013 at 5:23 pm
      6. The_Oracle86

        who the fuck wants to live in Providence? CVA only has that shite cuz noone else wants it.

        February 13, 2013 at 6:09 am Reply
      7. is this a troll

        we always here about the propaganda "CVA is terribad" … its funny that test alone couldn't deploy in providence to kick Chribba out of there
        its funny to see CVA and friends has destroyed around 7 HBC caps alone in one week…
        You might be able to take sov from Providence if u use you caps… but once your caps are deplyed else where… they will come back and take it

        February 13, 2013 at 8:06 am Reply
        1. Goonsrvirgins

          Yes CVA and provibloc is apparantly so very terribad, and yet every day another HBC fleet heads home in pods.
          http://kb.yulaifederation.net/?a=kill_related&amp

          Just another day in Providence.

          February 13, 2013 at 9:40 am Reply
          1. Altaen

            Worst kb font ever.

            February 14, 2013 at 9:19 pm
    3. bystander

      Grant it, it is harder for Independent guys from grabbing Sov but there are a few out there that have or had a small patch of Sov of their own. Rather or not they we're on someones side at the time I couldn't tell or didn't. A good idea would be to open up more systems for people to go after and compete for something to give the smaller Alliances a chance to call a place home without someone barking for rent payment or holding them at gun point.

      Though remember this is a sandbox. And doing a mechanic that gives smaller groups an advantage sounds like a good idea but the bigger Alliances would learn it then use to beat other Alliances. Nothings really broken here.(Grant it there is almost NOTHING!!! wrong with nullsec) its just the power house's that control what goes on in most parts of null.

      Unless we have another BoB go down. Then its a free for all.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:24 am Reply
    4. Addrake

      We (BL) are not hard pressed to gain sov. We don't want sov. The majority of 0.0 players in this game see sov as an asset but that's not how we view it. Sov is a liability when you consider what BL is. We are a nomadic group, we go wherever we can get good fights. That means in February we're in the west, in december/january we were up north, and before that we were down south on contract. There is no reason to hold sov with the exception of building supers, and to be perfectly honest that's a shitty reason to hold sov. It's much easier to buy them than build them, and you don't run the risk of losing the csaa.

      A lack of ability is not why we hold sov, it's a lack of desire. Why play the political game that is necessary to ensure your csaa's don't get hit, if you want to get good fights consistently night after night? Why tie yourself down? Honestly I think if anything sov does need to change, but it needs to be granted based on people actually living in said systems. Want to put a jb down in xxx system? You have to raise the military level to x and industry level to y so you recieve a certain level of sov, and then actually maintain it. Want to secure that outpost so only your blues can dock? Again rat to raise the indexes for your corp or alliance till you can take control, and maintain it. These options are healthier for 0.0 than the current method of sticking 1000 dudes in one system with a sprawling expanse of unused sov everywhere the eye can see.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:50 am Reply
      1. EvE

        Didn't want that Sov anyway.

        February 13, 2013 at 7:18 am Reply
      2. BntyHunter

        I totally am with you man. Hell you flew with us, we are very very similiar. We basically dont hold SOV except to rent, which IMO isnt what we are talking about.

        I agree with you alli`s like our`s dont desire SOV. But to be fair, you couldnt hold SOV either in the current game from a CFC entity just as we couldnt.

        Not from skill, not from will or any sort of ability except numbers. I really dont think we could.

        I think we need robbing stations/robbing mining complex`s just like the Confederates robbed US gold trains and such. The Confeds were very much so more skilled and really would have been the elite of the North but was just to small….That being said they killed them in guerilla warfare and TBH there isnt enough in Eve.

        I`m with you on the No Sov thing, but I would like it if guys like you and other Indies could gain it and keep it if they wanted to.

        February 13, 2013 at 11:20 pm Reply
      3. bestshot

        this is the most reasonable idea I've seen posted many times, cmon ccp catch on

        February 14, 2013 at 3:40 am Reply
      4. Fletch

        Can't you see it's only a liability because the moment you go to war with one of the big boys they will simply take it from you. I have no doubt in BlLs ability to take a few systems but don't tell me you could defend them against HBC/N3 or CFC fact is if your small and want to own space the sad state of the game means you have to suck up to a huge coalition to keep it.

        It's fucking pathetic which is why I have un subbed my accounts for now.

        February 14, 2013 at 10:02 am Reply
        1. OMGFrigates Warpout

          Your argument still falls back into a need or desire for Black Legion to take SOV in the first place. Which from my limited time in being a member of BL is nil. If you sincerely doubt the ability of Black Legion; should it choose to do so, to recruit additional corporations under its banner to compete as one of the SOV Lords, then you are pretty dumb.

          PS – The majority of said corporations would be MexxicoTrolled out of EVE anyway.

          February 14, 2013 at 2:34 pm Reply
    5. grunt

      You sir should be in CSM8

      February 13, 2013 at 8:07 am Reply
    6. Rob Err

      "Rob a station [..] rob a Moon mining plant"
      It's a god damn good idea, god damn it!

      February 13, 2013 at 3:07 pm Reply
    7. jenny

      No.evoke fo suck

      February 14, 2013 at 1:06 am Reply
  2. Whats the point?

    This isn't a very good piece, more or a jumbled rant then anything.

    February 13, 2013 at 2:34 am Reply
    1. Failcascade

      Its a Goblin article, they're all like this.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:00 am Reply
  3. fuck goons

    shitty article, SOCO never had 20,000 but way to make yourself feel better. MAYBE close to 14k and that includes PETS and RENTERS… so you are a noob, while invading TEST + HBC + CFC included 50k+ even without CFC it was nearly 2:1 when HBC was fighting… you say 20000 but you dont show your numbers, the alliances etc. you are just pulling that out your ass because the alliances and coalitions these days are that size and larger… HOWEVER SOCO DID NOT have 20k so this whole thing is full of shit. opinions with no facts to back em up.

    February 13, 2013 at 3:08 am Reply
  4. Felix

    Ironically "SoCo" was made by CFC/HBC.

    February 13, 2013 at 3:09 am Reply
    1. anon

      soco was around before CFC even existed

      February 13, 2013 at 3:40 am Reply
  5. CptA

    Why does this idiot keep posting his bull on EN24. You obviously are just spouting about things you have no knowledge of and really should just go back to raiding in WoW.

    February 13, 2013 at 3:18 am Reply
    1. anon

      sadly, i think it's evenews that's reposting, not him choosing to post here… but i may be mistaken

      February 13, 2013 at 3:40 am Reply
    2. The Observer

      I'm sure most people who have had the displeasure of reading this article (and others by goblin) will agree that this article is nonsense. It's especially funny because, according to his own blog, started playing eve only recently, so the NC, BoB and IT eras were well before his time.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:01 am Reply
  6. Gunny

    WoW is that way——> GTFO asshat

    February 13, 2013 at 3:43 am Reply
  7. Markethopper

    Corporations are people too

    February 13, 2013 at 4:04 am Reply
    1. DarthNefarius

      Shut the fuck up Romney you lost in the US elections & suck in Eve

      February 13, 2013 at 6:32 am Reply
    2. Akrasjel Lanate

      u mad bro

      February 13, 2013 at 10:05 am Reply
  8. Shattershark

    Looks like that Gevlon finally found that magical shorcut and now skips most of TL;DR pseudo-analysis to "you suck, go die". Quality of argument has somewhat diminished, but now you can read the entire post before dismissing it as another bullshit rant.

    February 13, 2013 at 5:18 am Reply
  9. Teflon_Goblin

    another article by gevlon gblin where he knows nothing of what he's talking about, and ignores to understand the finer points of the arguments put forth by csm members who want change such as rippard. you should seriously rename yourself teflon goblin from the ability to withstand the scrutiny other players put your posts under and point out many flaws within those articles, while still having the ego to think that everything you say is correct.

    February 13, 2013 at 5:48 am Reply
  10. The_Oracle86

    omg, i simply cant fathom how this guys thinks?! His way of thinking is so full of incompetence that im gobsmacked he's still breathing. Every damn article he writes is rife with garbage. Firstly it is a pretty well known fact that TEST did not take anything from SoCo. HBC went nowhere against SoCo, which is why they batphoned CFC. Secondly it is also a pretty well known fact to anyone in EVE that has common sense, that the little guys can't compete and take space from the bigger entities, there should be no debate on this fact.

    The reason why most players choose the blobs is for safety, simple as that. It's the same reason why HBC and CFC don't duke it out. They're too happy making isk and RMT'ing it up. If there was a way for smaller entities to take on blobs like goons and test, you can bet your ass it would be happening. But they can't so until CCP rectifies some stagnant sov mechanics we'll continue to see nothing happening except more of goblin's terrible articles.

    February 13, 2013 at 6:06 am Reply
    1. bloggerscirlcejerk
      February 13, 2013 at 7:31 pm Reply
  11. Gumpin

    I really have to ask at this.

    Goblin, What is your point?

    If you convinced everyone of eve you were right. To what end are you going forward toward?

    February 13, 2013 at 6:48 am Reply
  12. DarthNefarius

    OK Goblin put your money where your mouth is: INSTEAD OF TALKING OUT OF YOUR ARSE go form a small alliance/corp in NULL that can survive against the 'big boys'… until then don't spout up about shit you really have no clue about.

    February 13, 2013 at 6:56 am Reply
    1. bloggerscirlcejerk

      But he would have to stop doing elite PvP versus helpless mining barges to do so.

      February 13, 2013 at 7:29 pm Reply
    2. Anona-mouse

      Exactly. Goblin sure knows how to talk about all sorts of shit that he's never done. I'll listen to him if he bothers to take sov with his own corp/alliance.

      February 13, 2013 at 9:09 pm Reply
  13. Blame it on lag

    The Unthinkables is a small independent alliance that holds a good amount of "ok" sov. they do work with a big coalition from time to time but are independent for the most part. they Took their own sov. and keep expanding.

    February 13, 2013 at 7:07 am Reply
    1. unthinkables_lol

      The Unthinkables are a band of turncoats that bended over and dropped sov from the alliance they were part of in favor of the HBC. They are essentially even worse then pets. They exist at the mercy of the HBC and pray everyday that the HBC doesn't get too annoyed by the mere fact that they live besides them. Let's keep this real.

      February 13, 2013 at 10:37 am Reply
      1. INKbob

        Really, HBC has fk all to say on whether we have space. We was in Solars back yard, and not renters, just a PVP alliance. Mactep got power mad and broke up the Solar/Gypsy/Ink gang with threats.

        HBC has just proven how tepid they are with the whole mittens/shadoo BS we dont do sov grind. We reset everyone back to neutral after a few campaigns.

        Do you guys have any idea just how much credibility HBC has lost recently??? Personally, I hope they get their shit together and do something interesting.

        So before you label INK turncoats, ask Mactep how it all happened. Its Solars illustrious leader that started this anti-solar war because he tried to betray INK and turn us into his pets. We said fk off.

        February 13, 2013 at 1:16 pm Reply
      2. dropped sov from the alliance they were part of in favor of the HBC.
        INK came from GW which in NPC space and took the sov before HBC was formed thw only mayor blues they had at the time was Gypsy, INK was only between 300/400 man strong then and they managed to kill an alliance which peeked out to about 900 members : http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/99000890/stats… after that an other alliance named Pinked. (who lost their sov to Br1ck Squad) merged into INK and now they're slightly below 800 member, and in their most recent fight they killed 140+ oracle fleet from FAZOR with their 60man AHAC fleet supported by a 20ish naga fleet

        also N3 lives next to them, not HBC

        February 13, 2013 at 1:37 pm Reply
        1. oh i forgot INK also killed off Cascade imminent who was 2x their size aswel

          February 13, 2013 at 1:38 pm Reply
          1. oh and Riverinis old alliance The Retirement Club also lost about 50% of their number due to INK.

            February 13, 2013 at 1:39 pm
  14. Barkaway

    I like th part where hes claiming that the only reason why X alliance are having problems against Y alliance is cause their leaders are bad, not because there might be 10 times the numbers in Y, but hey guess The Gob meister knows better-.-

    February 13, 2013 at 7:24 am Reply
  15. troll

    This coming from player who thinks that shooting mining barges is solo pvp… i guess that he will be ready to grab sov anytime, given his opponents fly retrievers fitted with mining lasers.

    February 13, 2013 at 9:18 am Reply
  16. LJB

    Mabye the way of looking at this is that Sov holding should be a combination of CEO skill related and oversll corp/allaince activity, therefore if they allowed corporations to hold Sov ( but the amount was limited via skill and activity) this would allow much smaller entities a foot hold and allow them to grow, and by also linking it to activity within a system that
    gave a buff to defence of said system it would discourage the holding of large areas of space where there is 0 to no activity from the holding alliance as that space would be easier to "flip"…… Link this into the gradual reduction of "static" moon go sites and an alliance ratting tax, would overall encourage smaller entities into 0.0 without the reliance on moons to fund Sov…..

    February 13, 2013 at 9:19 am Reply
  17. iskbot#1337

    the question we all want to hear is … how would wow solve this Problem ?
    i´m confused not to find a eve-wow comparison.

    February 13, 2013 at 9:57 am Reply
  18. meh

    "that newcomers should take space by fire, the same way Goons took from BoB" goons didnt take it by fire… they used a spy to disband bob.

    February 13, 2013 at 10:10 am Reply
  19. Jake Jake Jake...

    pretty shitty bloc, housing 20000 players and fielding 150 in fleet.

    February 13, 2013 at 10:19 am Reply
  20. Butthurt T1 Logi

    Being a small alliance's leader, I would welcome any edge we can have against large coalitions and entities but no matter what gamebreaking thing CCP does to help "us", it will ultimately come down to a few things:
    * do you have enough good people to hold your space against the invaders
    * is the alliance leadership able to support the good people in it to do so (including SRP and Logistics)

    There is just no way a 100 man group could possibly stand on it's own in sov 0.0 without the stigma of Pet or Renter.

    February 13, 2013 at 10:32 am Reply
  21. NCdot

    Why do you let this retard post?

    Two things happen when you try to take sov in 0.0.

    1) You get curve stomped by an alliance bloc on any important timers.
    2) If you're any good, you might get offered a pet position and allocated some space in an existing bloc.

    Claiming that people can't just run down to Delve and take a few station because they suck is complete horseshit. Ultimately, the situation would escalate up to a fully blown HBC ops of a 1000 with supercaps. Same shit in most parts of 0.0. Do I care? No. I just say so purely to point out that Globin is still a epic retard.

    February 13, 2013 at 10:49 am Reply
  22. anon

    Calls a debate bullshit. Debates it.

    February 13, 2013 at 10:56 am Reply
  23. Noisrevbus

    The problem i have every time i read a Gevlon article on this website, is that his journalism keep reminding us that he still doesn’t have a depth in understanding the game, it’s culture or alliances.

    It’s akin to the highschooler who learns an academic term for the first time and begin throwing it around casually. It creates glaring holes in the arguments laid out and make the finished article very inconsistent.

    You end up oogling through the article and then asking yourself: What is he trying to say?

    This article is one of those, it has a mixed dosage of goony “get friends” lulz, an intertangled argument of “old alliances” and “big alliances” more or less equating the two and a gross misunderstanding of how and why the economy is malbalanced – even though i agree with him that the economy is malbalanced; and that the economy is the underlying issue to most problems in the game.

    I can only appeal to Gevlon to write about things that he has experienced first hand himself in the future; because it seems like he is taking commentary from different player groups and trying to piece them together through logic – a logic that lack sense and understanding as the sources have both varying quality, sincerity and outreach.

    It’s chewing off too much, both in relation to the author’s personal experience within the game and in relation to puzzle of topics.

    February 13, 2013 at 11:11 am Reply
  24. Mushroom Mushroom

    This is the natural escalation of things, EVE players will always pick at the weakest link so over time the weakest link keeps getting stronger.

    Someone states *is a small alliances supposed to be able to defend its space against half of EVE* this is why CFC and HBC decided to BECOME half of EVE, to properly defend their space.

    You are asking CCP to punish players because their sandcastle is too big and you dont feel its fair that you have to work a very long time to get your sandcastle just as big.
    Yes the older alliances have an advantage against you, yes its an uphill battle, no its not impossible.

    EVE has never boasted that its fair, if you really want a null sec alliance be prepared to put the work in and stop whining.
    If you as a leader are able to overcome the hardships of creating a new null alliance in this day and age than surely youll be a force to be reckoned with, you cannot expect to be the weakest link in null and survive.

    February 13, 2013 at 11:18 am Reply
    1. Goonsrvirgins

      Except that the ISK waterfall that CCP so very kindly gave to the 2 biggest alliances in the form of Tech moons has given them such a huge advantage, no-one else will ever to able to catch up.

      HBC, PL, CFC must have enough ISK by now to last them for years. CCP fucked null-sec beyond repair with passive moon-goo income. The devs don't give a shit because the majority of them are members of HBC, PL, CFC.

      February 13, 2013 at 11:29 am Reply
  25. Dani

    Is it a player impacting, or is a team of players impacting?
    Well you are suggesting that one player can never lose, because he can join who ever is the most power-full.

    Other, then that this wall of text has no value, no point! What are you actually saying? "There is no problem, move along… nothing to see" ???

    Well if there is a debate about it, apparently there is a problem. Ignoring it won't help a lot….

    "Due to the purposefully messed up economy of EVE nullsec, the only resource on this theater is players. Nullsec is a place where you spend the money you PLEX-ed or earned on your highsec alts."
    Not true… Not true at all!

    The problem is that the power blocks as we call em has become too powerful. The number of super capital ships ant what it was 1, 2, 3 years ago…

    Yet the sov mechanics stay the same… X amount of HitPoints you have to destroy, over X amount of time.

    Now even big power blogs had say numerous time, they don't like the sov grind.
    Big alliance will drop a Ihub in 20-30 mins, where a small alliance will have to shoot at it for hours!

    At the same time 0.0 stays in inhabited unused, deserted! Stations every where, only to make the sov grind even longer!

    "newcomers should take space by fire, the same way Goons took from BoB and TEST did from SoCo"
    Can you remember how this happened ?
    Goons took, what was left after BoB and TEST took what was left SoCo…. So basically "Wait until those, failscade on there own and than take the empty space .."

    You say the problem is that the new alliances suck!

    My opinion is that EVE only losses from the fact, that there are no new faces!
    What was possible 2-3 years ago with a 100 man BS fleet, is not possible today!
    So basically, now we are waiting for the big basement-nerds to failscade there power blocks, so new faces can emerge in 0.0, other then challenge them by fire.
    Not everyone wants to joins your big Coalition and be the pet of Montolio, Mitens, Shadoo, Mactep … etc..
    The political side of 0.0 looks dull and boring, to me!

    CCP has made so many changes in the past, that directly affect 0.0 life and population. Let see what there next one will be.

    February 13, 2013 at 12:17 pm Reply
  26. meh

    you need assets to take sov that you only can get if you own sov, like for example capital shipyards.

    February 13, 2013 at 1:03 pm Reply
  27. Besbin

    When I read "Of course like every bullshit debate" already before the article had even described what it wanted to say, I immediately stopped reading. Thought you should know.

    February 13, 2013 at 1:21 pm Reply
  28. Onion-y Goodness

    christ on a crutch Riv! if i send you some articles comparing eve to Pac-Man will you give me a job? i promise to write it in crayon too.

    February 13, 2013 at 1:31 pm Reply
  29. raknor

    Fuck small alliances they should not be able to take sov from the big boys that's the whole point of eve that's how the game has evolved if you don't like that fact maybe the sand box is not for you, And as a small ish alliance with very few blues holding sov getting fucked by the bigger boys right now i don't think its a problem that a larger group can take our sov.

    February 13, 2013 at 2:14 pm Reply
  30. The superblob is the real reason small startups can't compete. It is an IWin button and should be removed from EVE.

    The combat way of doing that would be to give dreads a buff in damage versus supers, increase their tracking, and remove siege mode entirely. Then everyone can build a weapon that can fight effectively in null and low sec.

    February 13, 2013 at 2:29 pm Reply
    1. raknor

      that is retarded buff dread tracking? blap dreads are already a problem this would just make large alliances that can do dread fleets and a support fleet even harder to beat! there is no buff you can do to make up for numbers so people need to stop complaining about them.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:42 pm Reply
      1. If a dread was an effective weapon for actual combat instead of a siege moded expensive pinata you could use them for hotdrop and hit and run tactics. This wuld make it viable for small well organized groups to prey on larger less mobile organizations. More combat is better. All you need is a fighting chance.

        Use your imagination! EVE pilots are so damned hidebound and "sure they know what they are talking about" when really you have never even likely been in a supercap battle in your life and don't know what you are talking about.

        February 13, 2013 at 3:23 pm Reply
        1. lolcfc

          lol stupid highsec noob probably never seen a dread in his life.

          February 13, 2013 at 5:26 pm Reply
          1. @lolcfc nope! Been flying dreads since before you likely even knew the game existed. Troll elsewhere nubbin.

            February 14, 2013 at 1:18 pm
        2. bestshot

          t2 dreads? pretty much same as normal dreads except they get a dmg bonus vs sc and titans equivalent to siege mode without being in it

          February 14, 2013 at 5:21 am Reply
  31. You Are Dumb

    The problem isn't so much that the little guy can't compete with the big guys, because he shouldn't be able to. The problem is rather, there is no place for the little guy to start. You cannot go compete with the big guys in null, because they're flat out bigger than you. And good luck recruiting in high sec. You could start in low sec or wormhole space, however my experience is that the type of people who live there generally won't want to go to null sec.

    February 13, 2013 at 3:02 pm Reply
    1. recollector1973

      You Are Dumb you are dumb.

      In high sec there is about 70% of the EvE pop, all of the little guys.CFC or HBC are filled with little guys.

      What stops 70k high sec little guys to come togheter and take CFC space ? They will be helped by HBC and N3.
      Or what stops 70k high sec little guys do the same with HBC? They will be helped by CFC and SOLAR.

      Every option above will totaly stomproll anyone.they got the subcap numbers and the cap fleet numbers.

      Or why the "elite" pvp WH allainces don't get togheter and do the above?

      You KNOW what stops them to do it?

      They are HAPPY with what they have and do.And they will NEVER EVER , in ANY conditions CCP might implement, come to null sec.

      It's not about the blob idiot.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:32 pm Reply
    2. NullSecNoob

      We have corps in our alliance with 30 players and some over 150, so your premise is Bravo Sierra.

      February 13, 2013 at 11:55 pm Reply
  32. NullSecNoob

    These whiners about SOV really get on my last nerve. HBC, N3, CFC, Solar, et al were not GIVEN null space, they took it from someone else. If there is such a groundswell in high/low/null sec small alliances to take SOV away, join forces and come get it. Goons alone would not be able to hold the vast CFC null space without the entirety of the CFC. Same goes for the other null sec alliances. To change the rules so a small group will stop whining is simply short sighted.

    February 13, 2013 at 4:00 pm Reply
  33. Nulli guy

    It is hard yes…But not impossible. Keep trying!

    February 13, 2013 at 5:12 pm Reply
  34. bullshit

    i have no idea at all about 0.0 sov mechanics, but i will write an article, telling all those that knows, that if they debate about the problems they encounter, it's just because they are terrible at playing with mechanism i don't have a clue about….

    pathetic

    February 13, 2013 at 5:22 pm Reply
  35. Barberian

    IMHO one of the most effective things CCP could do to help the "little guys" is give them a deployable charge that would last a short time preventing cyno's in system. Only one charge allowed in system. Short gap in between the one expiring and the new one launching and taking effect. Make them large so 100's of them can't be carried. Maybe even a limit on how many can be used in a system in a 24H period in a given system.

    How many times has a fleet fight been ruined by a PL hotdrop? Personally my fleet has been PL hotdropped 3 times in the last week, they even brought in supers and the titan last time against a 40 man fleet. A 40 MAN LIGHT AHAC FLEET! C'mon…

    February 13, 2013 at 5:54 pm Reply
  36. I </3 Structures

    The game is shifting from passive to active play. The solutions most people are proposing involve pilots actively living in a system to claim ownership. Let's face it, huge chunks of sov are claimed yet completely void of life. Ever been to drone regions lately? Freakin ghost town. This is even before IRC exploded. Solar space in particular is terribly vacant.

    If Sov must be actively maintained as opposed to planting a structure somewhere the borders of power blocks will shrink to a manageable size. The intended result is that smaller alliances should be able to claim or contest systems without any meaningful activity. Suddenly borders have meaning and are worth defending. Small gangs are able to disrupt and contest territory. Claiming sov becomes a sustained active mechanic as opposed to all the completely passive systems we see in null today, including moons.

    Big power blocks will retain massive advantages but over smaller regions of actively owned space. They keep force projection and have a large player base to defend territory. It should be hard to unseat a big power block. Yet, it should be easier for smaller groups to claim and develop a constellation. The small guys will still have a hard time keeping their space if a power block decides they want it. The difference is they need to actively maintain the space rather than simply blobbing it to oblivion only to ignore it completely afterwards. Theoretically, a nomadic alliance could setup Sov for a few weeks, then tear down and move back to empire or somewhere else without having to obliterate a shit load of structures with supers. In this case Sov simply decays and is eventually lost without any aggressive action.

    It could make null really interesting again with borderlines changing much more frequently. The intent is to make it much more dynamic, spread people out a bit more and actually defend space and create incentives for roaming gangs.

    February 13, 2013 at 6:07 pm Reply
  37. IRC Grunt

    I completely agree with what you are getting at in this article, but I can't understand whjy your analysis is still so poor after having written so many pieces now…

    February 13, 2013 at 6:33 pm Reply
  38. nerd

    he plays WOW!

    February 13, 2013 at 6:52 pm Reply
  39. CCPMechanics Fail

    The Pope is Evil

    February 13, 2013 at 8:22 pm Reply
  40. petwatch

    Person who pushed easy button in Eve null sec telling the little guys how to build something ,….

    February 13, 2013 at 9:06 pm Reply
  41. Goons is your Boss

    Goons are a small alliance and look how much power we have over EvE? PL shakes at our very name. The CFC does what they are told like obedient slaves. HBC thinks they are a childrens alliance in comparison. Worholers hide and don't dare to PvP against us as we are more skilled. N3 tells us they are better then us because they are EvEs finest but EvE is about more then PvP, can they mine and market trade tech like we can? I don't think so.
    So befor you say small groups can't do anything look at Goons who are YOUR role model.

    February 13, 2013 at 10:10 pm Reply
    1. Goons is YOUR Boss

      This is the most Important post on here. Lets try and stay on topic boys and girls.

      February 14, 2013 at 9:19 am Reply
      1. Dave from FA

        Plus one.

        February 14, 2013 at 3:47 pm Reply
  42. anonymoose

    The reason why smaller alliances cant get a foothold without joining a large coalition is that most established alliances in null have mastered the art of "ruining the game" and destroying morale, which is prevalent tactic in SOV warfare. Which accompanied by the fact that SOV warfare structure bashing to take SOV isn't fun to begin with.

    So smaller alliances attempt to take SOV only to quickly find out that "This isn't fun at all" Not without numbers the coalitions and fleet up. The only fun for a small alliance to have in null without joining a coalition is to ruin and jump in on timers. If a region ends of failing due to their war they might be able to sneak in take some failing systems or near by unclaimed and hope they arent considered enough of a threat or nuisance by either side to get shoo'd away so the big boys can go back to playing

    February 13, 2013 at 10:27 pm Reply
  43. Nine Lives

    Why is Greedy Goblin still allowed to post here?
    Seriously. A guy who self confesses to be a WoWtard is trying to tell us how he thinks things are and how they should be in EvE. We know he's wrong and we know he's just talking out of his butt. So why is he still allowed to post this nonsense here?

    I'd like to know who dropped the ball on this.

    February 14, 2013 at 6:53 pm Reply
  44. New Players getting into null sec: Tbh it's easy mode. You create your account, enter the game, Open map/soverignty, Check who owns the most space and apply to join. (most have newbie drives)

    New Corps/Alliances getting into null (without becoming another blue-donut member / renter): Allow capitals to be built and used in high sec. That's the only way to turn the game upside down and give everybody a chance.

    February 14, 2013 at 7:27 pm Reply
  45. GUEST

    The little guy bullshit is not bullshit.

    This universe is getting crowded, the blobs and logistics easily traverse from end to end. Sov-less alliances gobble up all the good moons. There is no play independents have than cannot be sustained without being part of one of three monster blue lists. So much for independence. Little guy only builds by submitting to these power blocks and assuming the position.

    February 18, 2013 at 8:07 pm Reply
    1. Guest2

      I really would like to see some kind of restart of eve. Maybe a second server that starts from 0 maybe with the availability of ships starting with up to t1 cruisers for the first month then up to t2 cruisers for the 2nd month and so on. I bet CCP would get a lot of new subcriptions (not necessarily subscribers) this way since people who are interested in eve but are "afraid" of it because they have so much less sp won't have this reason to not try it. also older players might go for the new universe with no settled alliances. though i would bet some alliances like goons would use this to establish power by being there already.

      February 21, 2013 at 12:21 pm Reply

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