Just a quickie.

2013 has barely started.  But I’m increasingly struck by the irony that what is likely to be the biggest fight in EVE Online in 2013 was:

  • accidental; and,
  • almost literally fought over nothing.

The Mittani wrote his monthly column over at Ten Ton Hammer about the fight.  What’s interesting about his piece covering it isn’t so much the facts; I think by this point most of us knew those.  What’s interesting is that the piece is mostly concerned with the inhibitors that should have prevented the fight from taking place in the first place, and didn’t.  At a couple of points, he directly or indirectly mentions such safeguards and compares the fight itself to a nuclear reactor accident, an airplane crash, and a failed rocket launch.

For those not keeping track at home, I’ll remind you that nuclear reactor accidents, airplane crashes, and failed rocket launches are horribly bad things that should be avoided at all costs.  And here we have the King of Space comparing an Internet spaceship battle to them.

“Jester, that’s not what he meant,” I can hear some of you saying already and yeah, I get that.  But the subtle implication is there and I don’t think this is the first time we’ve heard about it.  The truth is, at the sov level, spaceship battles are slowly becoming incidental to our spaceship game.  The meta game is becoming more important and anyone who wishes to take sov is having to think more about how they’re going to fight the meta game than how they’re going to fight the spaceship game.  Make no mistake: the meta game comes first.  By the time spaceships are actually involved, the winner and loser will have already been decided at the meta level.

“Don’t make us get out our spaceships,” the sov coalitions seem to be saying, “because you won’t like it.”

Where does this come from?  That isn’t too hard.  Granted, I haven’t blown up hundreds or thousands of SBUs, TCUs, POSs, and stations like I know a lot of you have.  But I’ve blown up a couple of dozen and you don’t have to clean out thousands of septic tanks to know that the activity is no fun; a couple of dozen will do.  😉  Do it hundreds or thousands of times and I can definitely sympathize with sov coalition pilots when the last thing they want to see is the inside of a spaceship.  I still have enough friends in the CFC to know that even though I don’t think they just went through a war, they do and they have the structure KMs to prove it.

Which is why when you have Shadoo promising members of the HBC spaceship fights without having to do any of the un-fun stuff, I can see the appeal that’s going to have for a sov coalition.

But isn’t it kind of ironic that it’s come down to this?  Sooner or later — hopefully soooner — CCP is going to have to get around to fixing this and I suspect you’re going to hear a lot about it during CSM election season.  I’ve written on the topic lots of times before and I want to do so one more time, this time simplifying my beliefs on what should be done about the problem down to the core.  But that’s another post.

For this one, I just wanted to quickly point out the irony of a coalition leader letting us all know that spaceship battles are bad, m’kay?

Ripard Teg

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  1. Blah

    If you ask me we are all just w8in for th next decent spaceship game to come along, then watch EVE subscriptions drop like a rock.

    I for one cant wait.

    February 7, 2013 at 3:03 pm Reply
    1. Val_V

      I think that is a little strong. Having said that, in a spaceship game where most nullsecers live for the next big fight, when two large coalitions who pretty much have no one else to shoot decide against going all in shooting each other, then there is clearly something wrong somewhere…

      February 7, 2013 at 3:22 pm Reply
  2. Kiyohime Ronuken

    The problem isn't the sov grind itself – it gets real, real old hearing the 'oh i don't want to grind sov' as those who do the real work in game sit and mine ice… again… and again… DAILY. Contrary to popular opinions this isn't something the better alliances bot-people actually have to work for it.

    Anyhow-who cares if they don't like the grind? Timers etc generate PVP. What these guys don't want is any chance whatsoever of losing their precious moons which is why for the..


    February 7, 2013 at 3:08 pm Reply
  3. Regat Kozovv

    It's probably worth pointing out that while ironic, the Mittani is coming from the perspective as well that his alliance just suffered an enormous defeat. I doubt HBC is complaining about spaceship fights being "bad".

    If this were more of an even fight, then I'm sure his statements would look rather ridiculous. But he's probably right to complain about this "Battle". Because it wasn't one. It was a massacre, and he's keen to point out to his alliancemates how this disaster happened.

    February 7, 2013 at 3:25 pm Reply
    1. -A- bitter vet

      or he could just grow some balls and try again

      February 12, 2013 at 2:53 am Reply
  4. "For this one, I just wanted to quickly point out the irony of a coalition leader letting us all know that spaceship battles are bad, m’kay?"

    Which was neither said nor implied. What was explicitly stated is avoiding battles where you lose all your shit should be avoided. ~800billion not being pocket-change to anyone.

    February 7, 2013 at 3:49 pm Reply
  5. Mario

    SOV is fine. The problem is that people do not use the right tools. Drops some super in sov grinds and watch the time required drop off drastically. The problem is people refuse to use the right tools for the job, mostly due to the fact they are risk averse faggots. The fear of losing supers is what makes sov grinding monotonous and boring. get some supers in there and it takes a fraction of the time…but ya you might lose some at some point.

    February 7, 2013 at 3:54 pm Reply
  6. Mike

    PL is actually doing sov. war now, and literately started sov. war days after Shampoo said he didn't want sov. war. That being said, if you look at DOTLAN they seem to be only hitting station systems which are jumpcal 4 apart on a Dread towards Vale from N3 space. :tinfoil:

    February 7, 2013 at 4:18 pm Reply
  7. Ravaeli

    I generally like your blogs regardless if I agree with them or not. However, taking something out of context and then stating that you took it out of context for the purpose of taking a jab at someone can be considered somewhat self serving and in the end bad writing/posting. Whether this was intentional or not doesn't matter as in the end it becomes a disservice to you and your credibility.

    I think it is safe to assume that a simple chain of events/mistakes that led to a 800 billion ISK dent in coalition assets, most of which will take months to recover from, can't be considered a good thing from his perspective. While his real world examples were extreme, that was the point he was trying to get at. If you are a coalition with one of the largest super capital forces in the game, and thus one of the reasons most fear you, what would you compare this to in the event you suddenly found yourself devoid of the large majority of your super capital fleet? This almost happened to them and the point he was making was that it was for essentially nothing. From their perspective, it was a terrible, pointless, and costly fight.

    I think the Mittani is just as much full of shit as the next person who thinks the same but that is also why I like him. He is a smart individual, full of shit and knows it, and also knows how to use it to his advantage… and succeeds at doing so. However, I will agree that while a large pointless fight is what they were wanting, a large pointless massacre of important assets was what they ended up getting. I will also agree that is the ironic part, mostly because I cannot remember a battle of this magnitude ever being a "good fight" for everyone involved. It is always a massacre for the loosing party.

    While SOV grinding is not fun for anyone involved, they still do it all the time. The only reason we aren't seeing real war between CFC and the HBC yet is because neither will gain anything from it and neither have a real reason to go to war. Where/what would PL be without it's significant super capital force? Where/what would TEST be once their super capitals are all but destroyed and they have lost all their space? Goons…? In the end, both CFC and HBC will LOSE more than they could ever possibly gain and come away weaker or non-existent from it. That is a gamble that neither party is willing to take yet.

    February 7, 2013 at 5:09 pm Reply
  8. VoC duder

    It's not like PL has any problems, grinding sov in Geminate.

    February 7, 2013 at 5:11 pm Reply
  9. "Jester, that’s not what he meant,” I can hear some of you saying already and yeah, I get that."

    You should get that. Two weeks ago you were comparing gank victims to rape victims.

    February 7, 2013 at 8:11 pm Reply
    1. fuggin'

      Both can be classified as violating of buttholes. So he was right. I would even compare the gankers to pedophiles .
      They are 40y.o. neckbeards, and touch in bad places.

      February 9, 2013 at 7:29 am Reply
  10. Noisrevbus

    This article is missing one important detail:

    The “likely biggest fight in 2013” was not “literally fought over almost nothing”. It was fought over a Titan-kill.

    Titans have this knack of being one of the few ships left in the game with an actual pricetag attached to them, where loss is felt and tangible.

    Killing a Titan impact anyone in the game much more than losing a couple of staging systems, a POS or a massive fleet of free shit.

    You need to lose something like 10.000 Cruisers, 2000 BC or 1000 BS to amount to the loss of 1 Titan.

    Think about those numbers, pause, brew some coffee… then come back and think about them again when it has sunk in and you can read past the number-blindness.

    The mainstay of a fleet today is still some 200 odd BS. That’s all you need to force people to think about fielding Supers, since nothing but Supers (or more numbers) beat those 200 odd BS.

    Drop a 3mehp Capital and those 200 odd BS with a ~10k alpha will alpha 2mehp.

    This is why we can’t have nice things in EVE…

    … such as even wars between coalitions.

    February 9, 2013 at 12:26 am Reply
    1. Turmajin

      Ive long argued that there should be a ship capablle of killing a Titan,Along the lines of a SB,maybe a crisier sized SB able to caryy a normal complement of bombs and torpedos ,and one or two super bombs,with 1-2 mill ehp.So it would still be hard to kill a Titan ,but it would be possible.Just as it takes usually more than one SB frig to kill a BSs nowThis also i believe could also moderate the present blob warfare we have atm,and make it more realistic ,

      February 10, 2013 at 11:14 am Reply
  11. fuggin'

    All 3 of you are real Einsteens.

    February 9, 2013 at 7:26 am Reply
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