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I still haven’t stopped laughing over the minutes from the Winter CSM summit.  Especially the nullsec bits. Heaven help me, but I do love a good puppet show.  

The best bit was the lords of nullsec and their hangers-on stepping up one by one to say how awful it is in nullsec, how broken nullsec is, and how nobody wants to go to nullsec because it’s so hard to make the Iskies. And how, oh how, can they possibly get those lazy and risk-averse carebears to come out to dreary, awful, broken (did we mention it was broken) and dangerous nullsec given the status quo?

You’d think nullsec was the nerdy frat-house on campus and couldn’t get anyone to join ’cause all those cool highsec frat houses were giving away free sex and cocaine at their rush parties. Meanwhile poor nullsec house was stuck serving fruit-punch and two-day-old sushi.

I swear, musical themes from La Bohème must have been swelling in the background as the blue doughnut’s proxies (BDPs) warbled as one from the ‘Farms and Fields’ songbook, held forth on nullsec’s terrible state and prophesied darkly ‘pon the consequences of CCP inaction.  Of course, in a later session UAxDEATH sneers that a trillion ISK as mere pocket change for a nullsec alliance (at which you could practically hear Alekseyev Karrde’s jaw hit the floor).

Ah, the poor, lonely, rich boys of nullsec.  It just breaks the heart, doesn’t it?

The TLDR of the BDPs’ demands, as expressed in the CSM minutes and in the forums, amounts to this:  Change mining and manufacturing mechanics across New Eden so that these activities are far more efficient in sovereign nullsec than in empire or NPC nullsec.  Which is to say they want the baseline cost of manufacturing a given ship or module in empire to be higher.

Yeah, that’s right. The BDP wants you to pay more for ships and modules. No, really.  Twocores/Mynnna even put it in print.  

Why? Well, according to the BDP, they want you to pay more for ships and modules so they can have economic independence from the cruel tyranny of Jita.  Of course, nobody’s twisting the BD’s collective arm to buy and sell at Jita.  And, if markets provide any indication, nullsec absolutely loves to shop at Jita.  However, the BDPs hold that, despite nullsec’s near monopoly on high end manufacturing inputs, there is simply no way they can possibly develop industrial capacity within their domains that will compete on a price basis with empire imports given the present mechanics.  No way.  It’s just not economically feasible.  

Piffle.

Despite all the BDP sturm und drang at the CSM summit and in the forums, developing a nullsec industrial infrastructure competitive with highsec imports is perfectly achievable with the current mechanics. Is it harder than having CCP hand you the wherewithal on a silver platter? Of course. But none of the changes the BDPs are lobbying for are required to get it done. As I pointed out in Comparative Advantages, back in July:

“If [nullsec’s] economic ministers are truly interested in developing the farms and fields paradigm, building up nullsec’s industrial capacity must become the primary focus of their efforts.  That will take some clever thinking on their part and require an incentives program geared toward creation rather than merely destruction.”

I have done industry in nullsec. I know the difficulties involved, and know how nullsec alliances can overcome them.  Like as not, there are a large number of forward thinking industrialists, some in nullsec,  who could point the way as well. And, happily, you don’t have to take my word for it.  As a reader recently pointed out, an article posted on Goonswarm’s own propaganda outlet demonstrated that the lords of nullsec on CCP’s Serenity server have overcome the industrial problem that has Twocores/Mynnna and the rest of the nullsec brain-trust throwing up their hands in despair. 

I suppose it’s possible that Serenity’s lords of nullsec have out-thought their Tranquility brethren or are simply better managers.  And it is certainly possible that I am just infinitely smarter than the combined talents of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal; the self-proclaimed ‘foremost authority on Eve Online economics and game play’.  Or perhaps the lords of BD nullsec simply lack the energy for enterprise, preferring a free hand-out from CCP to rolling their sleeves up and doing some honest mental heavy lifting.

Improving 0.0 industry (the reason POS changes are being so aggressively pushed by the BDPs) is certainly worth talking about.
However, speaking based on experience, the primary problem with industry in nullsec is mismanagement, not game mechanics. Nullsec is what its owners make of it.  If the BDP truly wants to develop an industrial infrastructure, they have it in their hands to do so.  Nullsec management hasn’t made a serious effort at optimizing their space for industry with the tools at hand.  I see no reason to reward their lack of initiative with new special advantages for nullsec.  Nullsec has plenty of advantages as it is.

Some folk can’t be happy unless they’re holding *all* the toys. 

But, let’s be charitable. Let’s assume the BD lords of nullsec and their proxies know they can produce competitive ships and modules given the right policies (Industrial optimization, open carebear immigration, low use fees to incent industrial activity, etc.).  Let’s assume they know that independence from Jita is theirs to grasp without any, (or only modest) changes to game mechanics. Why then, are they insisting the economic playing field must be tilted to their absolute advantage over both highsec and lowsec.  Why are they so anxious to push up the cost of cartoon spaceships.

Here’s a possibility:

In the Economic section of the December CSM summit meeting, UAxDEATH states that Technetium can be nerfed if the desired ‘Farms and Fields’
changes replaces that income stream.
None of the other BDPs record any objection to this statement.  This speaks volumes to revenue yields the lords of nullsec expect from ‘Farms and Fields’.  Reading elsewhere in the minutes and the forums it is evident that ‘Farms and Fields’ is expected to provide nullsec alliances with a new large-bore stream of revenues from taxes on industrial activities. 

– Mord Fiddle

About the Author: Mord Fiddle’s writings are an invitation to high tea in a world of rave parties. His readers gather at http://fiddlersedge.blogspot.com/ for thoughtful analysis, daring prose, deep insights, and Mord’s tendency to use words not writ nor spoken conversationally since Middle English went out of fashion.

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52 Comments

  1. LowSexBestSex

    Years ago in the before time, there was such a thing as joint alliance mining ops where you'd have literally tens of hundreds of mining ships chewing up a system at a time with protection being provided by the pvp wing of the alliance. These materials were needed because there were no such things as carriers or jump freighters to bring gear out to null.

    There were targets to shoot at and plenty of roaming pvp because you'd see these nice big blobs mining on the map you could go try and hit. However, over time the elite pvp & kb efficiency mindset has kicked in and any alliance would laugh at the idea of bringing in industry corps to produce for them in todays eve.

    These problems we see in eve today are cyclic. The Devs aren't lying when they point out EvE is a game of cause and effect. The question is does the current null alliance have the intestinal fortitude to stand up and start doing this at the chance of being mocked as carebears?

    January 26, 2013 at 2:26 pm Reply
    1. Nano

      "Tens of hundreds" = thousands mining ships… Yeah right!

      January 26, 2013 at 2:47 pm Reply
      1. LowSexBestSex

        I'm sorry grammar nazi i meant 10's to 100's. please forgive me…

        January 26, 2013 at 6:26 pm Reply
      2. CBJL

        It's ok Nano…… **Pats Nano on the back** Their, There, They're.

        January 26, 2013 at 10:31 pm Reply
  2. Gort

    I thought that the Devs generally were the current null alliances – as they say "there's no information like inside information"

    January 26, 2013 at 2:35 pm Reply
  3. derpityderp

    once again, this saying applies: "you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain"
    alliances like goonswarm and PL have gotten fat and lazy off of their current holding of wealth and effective status quo. they will make any silly excuses necessary to keep a hold of that wealth.

    January 26, 2013 at 2:56 pm Reply
    1. SuperPvp

      what use is all this ingame money, unless they're planning to RMT it all off?
      And if the game remains as stagnant as it is, why in the hell would there be players wanting to pay for ingame isk with real money?

      thats what I can't understand tbh….

      January 27, 2013 at 2:10 am Reply
  4. Testie

    I see a lot of fluff here but no solutions. You even say you know how to solve certain industrial issues in null sec, but you lay out nothing. You are simply whining about people who are whining about how bad null sec industry is. Not helpful.

    January 26, 2013 at 3:32 pm Reply
    1. What, the wall of text wasn’t big enough for you already? You sir, are insatiable.

      But seriously; for a modest fee I am happy to provide my services as a consultant to any nullsec alliance wishing to develop an industrial infrastructure.

      January 26, 2013 at 4:46 pm Reply
  5. Scar

    Yep, completely not interested in a game where one section of the population holds all of the power to voice the opinion. Low Sec is the space that needs to be looked at. The only truly dangerous area of 0.0 are entry systems. For the most part the other 90% is vast unused wasteland.

    January 26, 2013 at 3:38 pm Reply
    1. The Observer

      Pretty much. I can list on one hand (two if you count NPC 0.0) the only dangerous systems in 0.0. Hell, I spent a month wandering around Fountain in a Loki and a Buzzard clearing up all those mag and radar sites before TEST or whoever could get them. Thanks for that free Military 5 btw.

      January 26, 2013 at 7:06 pm Reply
  6. Try again.

    This article is stupid and uninformative.

    January 26, 2013 at 3:44 pm Reply
    1. droljica

      orly….

      January 26, 2013 at 4:36 pm Reply
      1. Andres Talas

        Yes. really.

        If you want to arm and equip people in nullsec, you dont use an industrial wing, you use a jump freighter.

        Its a lot easier to secure a jump freighter full of compressed minerals for five minutes in losec and NPC Null and secure ratting ships for five hours, than it is to secure mining barges for five hours in soverign Null. It also uses less player time, and produces the same quantity of minerals.

        January 26, 2013 at 8:47 pm Reply
        1. The Observer

          Yes, jump freighters are easier, but logistics is stil la pain in the ass. It would be easier still to have a dedicated wing of miners/industrialists in sov 0.0.

          Also, I'm not sure if you've been to low-sec recently, but it's a bit more dangerous than Sov space. NPC null is almost as bad as low-sec resource wise, so that's a terrible choice too. If you get a few dozen mining barges in a system with Industry 5, then you can get not only MORE high end materials, but more low-end materials as well without having to move systems (flip all the grav sites). Refine > Ship to production station > Build fleets of ships.

          January 26, 2013 at 11:13 pm Reply
          1. Guest

            There is one issue with your plan: Once the industry in a system goes up high enough to have grav sites, the greifers, gankers, neuts, reds, oranges, and warpy-cloaky fags come out of the woodwork from all over EVE to camp the system waiting on "easy" industrial kills. They stay long enough to keep the indies from sustaining the industry level, so once they leave after the indies quit logging in, the indies have lots of work to do gettign the industry level up again, only to have the cycle repeat. Trust me on this – the people coming to 0.0 for easy indy/ratter kills are paying attention to where the activity is occurring.

            Moreover, there is currently NO method, none at all, period, for stopping a warpy-cloaky faggot from camping a system for weeks on end. I have seen them log in after down-time, and still be there when downtime happens 24 hours later. They park in a safe spot, cloaked, go to work or school, are abasnet from the game for hours on end, and thus deny the use of a system to those who have payed dearly to own the SOV and the right to work that system. This is a nasty game mechanic that CCP has no desire or interest in modifying in the least. I have suggested numerous times a variety of ways to allow the system owners a way to counter this tactic. The concept is to give the warpy-cloaky fags the ability to play as they desire, but with a higher price, while giving the system owners a mechanic, either time or skill-based or both, that allows them a chance, not certainty, but opportunity to scan down the guy and kill him or run him off.

            Also, in hi-sec, players are spoiled by having stations in which to refine where the base is 50%. In 0.0, building a station up to this from the starting 35% is extremely costly and time-consuming, and as everythign else, is a flag to greifers and gankers that industrialists will be in the neighborhood., so "easy kills".

            0.0 industry is infinitely more interesting, challenging, exciting, and inconsistent than hi-sec, thus much much harder. There are no guarantees, and nobody but you and your friends to hold the wolves and Indians at bay. :-)

            January 27, 2013 at 3:27 pm
          2. Andres Talas

            Oh, the mins get mined under concord protection in hisec, and then just transit thru losec in a jump freighter, because then we only need a secure undock for a handful of minutes.

            Miners in null also only want to mine the high ends, as thats the best isk/hour … and low ends are what you need in quantity for the tech 1 ships that nullsec pilots fly in combat.

            I can also flat-out guarnatee you that Van Guard lights a cyno if he sees a dozen mining barges on scan in an Industry 5 system in Branch.

            January 28, 2013 at 1:23 am
  7. Slothen

    I would take the ideas of your article seriously if it weren't so heavily ladled with sarcasm and butthurt.

    January 26, 2013 at 3:47 pm Reply
    1. droljica

      oohh, buhuuu :(

      January 26, 2013 at 4:35 pm Reply
      1. Andres Talas

        He also doesnt address any of Mynnas' points, which are

        1. Sov holders cant tax mining, in the same way they can tax ratting
        2. Limit on number of station limits the amount of production
        3. Moving stuff by JF is damn cheap, so you dont need to bother with it.

        "However, the BDPs hold that, despite nullsec’s near monopoly on high end manufacturing inputs, " is also a complete lie.

        January 26, 2013 at 8:43 pm Reply
        1. The Observer

          He's just re-stating what many CSM members have said before. And yes, if you look at the amount of ships and T2 modules produced in High-sec in NPC stations compared to those produced in 0.0, you'd see that a vast majority are indeed made by high-sec industrialists. Why? Because it's safer, cheaper, and easier. Why would any builder move to 0.0 when it's more expensive to produce things as well as harder to get assets sold in a timely manner?

          January 26, 2013 at 11:07 pm Reply
        2. EVE_Dude

          There is far more butthurt from the CSM. Their suggestions to make industry more expensive in hi sec are ridiculous. First of all, the math's already been done. You'd have to increase hi sec costs not just a little bit, but massively, to tip the balance towards null. This is not a practical solution, or good for the game.

          Yes, null industry is "broken". But we already know what's broken, because we know what works. Where in null does industry work? It used to work in drone regions before the drone nerf, they used to manufacture all their own T1, with plenty of materials left over to stockpile or even export to hi sec. The problem with null industry is the lack of availability of low end minerals. Period. Without the option of self-sufficiency, there is no point to basing industry in null. Just export a handful of high-ends, import the finished product.

          Increasing hi sec costs will simply make all products everywhere more expensive, and won't help null industry one iota. Frankly, I don't know what the motivations of the CSM are, or if there's one instigator and everyone else is just drinking the coolaid and mouthpiecing. Their suggestions are counterproductive.

          January 27, 2013 at 11:50 pm Reply
          1. "The problem with null industry is the lack of availability of low end minerals. Period."

            Actually, that's incorrect. Low end ores are plentiful in nullsec. However, on a per hour basis, mining them can't compete with incomes available from other higher ISK yield activities like anom ratting. See 'Farms and Fields: A Question of Labor' over at Fiddlers Edge. http://fiddlersedge.blogspot.com/2012/12/farms-an

            January 29, 2013 at 2:21 pm
    2. I am sorry my sarcasm hurt your butt.

      I seek to entertain as I educate and my puckish wit sometimes comes across as sarcasm. Thus, any butthurt you endured while reading article was unintentional butthurt.

      January 26, 2013 at 5:14 pm Reply
      1. guest

        Thanks for that. For me, I was trying to glean some serious information about things happening that I don't get from logging in every day, even though I have toons in 0.0 and hi-sec both. Sadly, I have to agree with the reader above that the actual information content seemed to be lower than the sarcasm level.

        Also, for those of us who have only been playing for 2.5 years or so, and been in Hi and LO and 0.0, it would still be good ot lay out who is who. You named some players / representatives in your article with an apparent expectation that we would recognize them, and maybe it 's just me, but I didn't know any of them. This is actually why I only look at EN24 infrequently, as the information doesn't make much sense to me most of the time.

        Thank you for the effort of putting together the article and being out front. I hope you don't take my remarks badly. I was simply hoping for better information. I appreciate you for your efforts, no matter what.

        January 27, 2013 at 3:34 pm Reply
  8. Dave Stark

    "players are expected to hand over low grade ratting loot to be reprocessed into ships for the alliance hangers."

    null sec industrialists didn't solve shit on serenity, expecting donations is basically the whole "renter" situation. except instead of paying in isk, they just pay in modules.

    in fact, what the chinese have done is pretty much the exact definition of "farms and fields", surely?

    January 26, 2013 at 3:48 pm Reply
    1. guest

      "in fact, what the chinese have done is pretty much the exact definition of "farms and fields", surely?"

      Without needing to whine for extra game mechanics.

      January 26, 2013 at 8:13 pm Reply
  9. Charles Darwin

    This guy is a moron.

    January 26, 2013 at 5:41 pm Reply
  10. steve, a player

    Sov grinding works perfectly.
    What doesn't is gaining sov.

    Sov should be something like: (250000 ^ (1+((number of systems in an alliance-1)/10).

    Thus….the first system would be 250,000 (great for a small corp or alliance) but it would go up fast…
    250,000
    866,431
    3,002,811
    10,406,915
    36,067,498
    125,000,000
    433,215,527
    1,501,405,542
    5,203,457,546
    18,033,748,824

    Thus alliance capitals would be clearly defined….alliances wouldn't balloon because of sov.

    Making small alliances or large corps part of a blue list would be a diplomatic nightmare, as it should be. :)

    January 26, 2013 at 7:40 pm Reply
    1. steve, a player

      Oh…and local only in TCUed space. :)

      January 26, 2013 at 7:57 pm Reply
      1. Andres Talas

        You dont understand how coalitions work – they arent defined by in-game standings, but by access to out-of-game resources like voice servers and forums, and to in-game resources like fleets and intel channels.

        Under your system, the CFC sets up a buttload of holding alliances, which then share standings.

        If you refuse to let them share standings, we move to NPSI and everyone joins their Regio/Constellation/System fleet.

        January 26, 2013 at 8:40 pm Reply
        1. steve, a player

          Meta extra (outside)-gaming will always happen. All we can do is make the in-game mechanism to make sov grabs of over 15-20 systems impractical. But the whole point is making it so that one alliance can't control 1/3 of null sec, eg. Solar/Test/Goons/etc. The second point is giving other alliances a better idea of where the enemy can actually get hurt. Small alliances have easily detectable capital systems that demonstrate where a war/harassment can most efficiently happen. Large alliances have large stretches of lukewarm to dead space, where small alliances have a few obvious target systems. The exponential cost of sov would force all alliances into that situation where everyone knows what systems need to be defended, and which systems, by default, are more likely to have CSAA. :) I want to see a polkadotted influence map, even if meta gaming means it's an illusion.

          January 27, 2013 at 2:49 am Reply
          1. Andres Talas

            "I want to see a polkadotted influence map, even if meta gaming means it's an illusion. "

            You already do. Lets take Branch – there are four different colors on the Sov map.

            But in reality, its all CFC, and as BL. just found out, if you attack one of them, you attack all of them.

            If we dropped sov down to the Corp level, then you'd have, I dunno, sixty different tickers and the sov map … but it would all still be CFC, and as BL. just found out, if you attack one of them, you attack all of them.

            So, yeah, pointless solution is pointless.

            January 27, 2013 at 9:41 pm
    2. War observer

      For this to work you have to connect sov cost with number of active alliance members, otherwise sov holding entities could create any number of one man one corp alliances as sov holding shell entities.

      IMHO formula for sovereignty bill should be something like this:

      1000000*2^(active alliance members/500)

      Not only would this force alliances not to take systems they can't reasonably use, it would also give them incentive to to bring back as much of their alts outside of the alliance back to the alliance because that would reduce their sov bill. Benefit of that is that sov bill would also represent indirect tax on alts and shell corps that are used to circumvent high sec wars. Each alliance would have to decide what is more important, smaller sov bills or hig sec wardeck safety.

      January 26, 2013 at 9:51 pm Reply
      1. War observer

        Clarification: formula above is per system

        January 26, 2013 at 9:54 pm Reply
      2. War observer

        Correction: I miss-wrote the formula.

        Correct formula should be:

        1000000*2^(500 * number of system controlled / active alliance members)

        this is still cost per system, to get total sov bill formula should be multiplied by number of sov systemld be multiplied by number of sov system

        January 26, 2013 at 10:00 pm Reply
  11. Asken

    Maybe I missed something, is there Goons on the CSM? Cause I though that whole Mittens thing last year removed them from that.

    January 26, 2013 at 8:30 pm Reply
  12. sreggin wej

    You can spot an uninformed shitspewing attention whore by his use of an expression like "blue donut" when this died a week ago, let alone ever being real.

    January 26, 2013 at 9:18 pm Reply
  13. Guest

    Good god this is the single worst artical EN24 has ever published.

    January 26, 2013 at 11:12 pm Reply
  14. Superbadassrobots

    What will happen=Mittens gets ALL the personal income for rmt.
    What this article says=I don't know how to properly construct my thoughts but I'm sure as hell smarted than you.
    What this article means to me (after deciphering)=nerf JFs.

    January 26, 2013 at 11:51 pm Reply
    1. SuperPvp

      Can't players currently get almost as good a deal as legit buying plex to sell for isk, to the extent that it's not worth it risking the possibility of being banned for buying dirty isk for such a small price premium???

      January 27, 2013 at 2:06 am Reply
    2. SuperPvp

      Goons original aim was to break eve , or something to that effect right? I assume by encouraging the stagnation in 0.0 atm, that is still a goal of theirs….

      January 27, 2013 at 2:07 am Reply
  15. noob

    Farms + Fields:

    Break the Infrastructure Hub into many smaller units that can be destroyed by small gangs.

    Destroying these smaller structures will drop the index of the system (incentive to defend).

    If there is a bounty on alliance/corp- the killers will get paid by raiding systems (incentive to pillage).

    Tweak as necessary… pros/cons?

    January 27, 2013 at 12:49 am Reply
    1. abc123

      He is right – nothing is wrong with Null Sec industrial. Its all fine. But here let take an look at what happens.

      A. Small Corp/Alliance goes to Zero Zero to set up shop to sell goods.
      B. They set up shop and start to make iskies.
      C. Greifers and gankers see mining index goes up. Free Kills.
      D. PL/ Goons/ Test and other 900lbs losers go to there diplo or leadership and say. Pay me / join us or else.
      F. Said corp say no and go fly a kite.
      G. Said 900lbs losers come with 20 plus titans – 100 supers – god knows a crap load of caps and subcap.
      H. Said corp/alliance breaks up and goes back to High sec. Been happening for Ten years now.

      History does not change. People are alot smarter. Why go thru the trouble when you already know the outcome. This is why people just stay in empire. Big power blocks, thru no fault of there own have the big toys. They can move within one half hour anywhere in EVE. You want more industry in Null Sec. Add more space and make sure it takes week in real life time to Move Supers and fleet. Then small Corps and Alliance will have a chance to survive.

      January 27, 2013 at 1:39 am Reply
      1. Andres Talas

        Step F is where the problem is. What was the issue with going 'We'll be there for strat ops, and we'll also have fleet-fit ships up on alliance contracts at Jita plus 15%'. ?

        Both HBC and CFC have a bunch of heavily carebear corps, and it appears that the leadership of the alliances is fine with that *if* those carebears pick up their drakes, hurricanes scythes and exequors when required.

        Or is the expectation that you'll simply be able to claim Sov, make money and not have anyone bother you ?

        January 28, 2013 at 1:37 am Reply
        1. srsly man

          You hit the nail on the head, they just want to stuff their wallets and not contribute, seen it again and again, alliance channel full of indys, but only a small percantage show up for cta, and supply prices still at 30 over jita, so basically they don't contribute to the alliance, just get away from hi sec war decs, and when war comes, they pack up shop. Not the kind of Indys any alliance in EVE needs, not the kind of indys eve needs

          January 31, 2013 at 12:44 am Reply
  16. Angry_Mustache

    Hello Eve News 24, I am Angry_Mustache, the Author of the Serenity Article you linked. The facts on the eve China server are more complicated than you made it out to me.

    The null sec alliances collect ore from their ratters, but do most of their manufacturing in the immediately adjacent Lowsec. With the massive size of the alliances, they have plenty of Low and High sec stations locked down in terms of production lines. Indeed, production is still done in low and high like serenity, but the production is done by the Industrial arms of the Null Alliances rather than High-sec Industrial groups. Basically the differance is that finished ships are not brought to Jita to be sold on the open market, but given directly to the alliances.

    Moreover, the amount of ratting needed to produce that much minerals is truly astounding, only possible because of the high boredom toleration of the Chinese, and their widespread botting.

    -AM

    January 27, 2013 at 1:26 am Reply
    1. Angry_Mustache

      corrections
      in the first sentence it should be **made it out to be**
      **Production is still dine in low and high like TQ**

      January 27, 2013 at 1:28 am Reply
  17. steve, a player

    Null sec can be fixed by making it more like drone lands used to be (not exactly gun mining, but drops being the important part, not bounties). Start winding down bounties and revving up cooperative productive gameplay, ie make true sec more impactful when it comes to new higher yield ores to mine in null sec. Make a refining salvager that gets resources out of wrecks, for example, and not just rigs and drops. Or just keep on making isk faucets…and watch the game go down the crapper. Make the carebear an essential part of the game, and more pew will actually happen due to revitalized production.

    January 27, 2013 at 2:55 am Reply
    1. sleeper

      Yeah I agree with this. One of the differences (aside from my balls dropping!) of being in wormholes instead of 0.0 is the lack of bounties. With the added risk of no local and the fact drops and salvage are the entire worth of any sites, it really pushes you toward reacting gasses, making T3s and other industry and logistics that requires teamwork and thought.

      Its a lot more rewarding than soloing sanctum after sanctum while people compare ping sizes in chat.

      January 27, 2013 at 11:06 am Reply
      1. Andres Talas

        Im totally in favour of dropping bounties from null, and making it all gun mining, like the dronelands used to be.

        Noctii are fast to train for, and vacuum up wrecks. Add some modules that reprocess into low ends and we're golden. Personally, I'd also have meta 4 mods stop dropping in hisec as well.

        Agreed on nerfing sanctums – I'd not respawn any of them till they are all cleared.

        January 27, 2013 at 9:44 pm Reply
  18. Null grunt

    I think it would be interesting to make sovereignty depend on fending off the local rats. Beef up the rats in really good true sec systems to near incursion levels, and have them able to attack your sov, along with player raiding groups.

    Changing sov as has been previously mentioned to have more smaller targets would work well with this idea.

    Then you could only hold as much sov as you could defend, from the rats, if no one else. Therefore, you can't hold an inactive system. After a while, the rats grow storng enough to retake the idle system.

    Also, it would provide interesting opportunities for enemies to disrupt your defense.

    January 29, 2013 at 12:07 am Reply

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