riverini: Wow, a storm is coming…

Hello everyone. Another set of changes to get feedback on for Retri.
Since we’re adjusting so many ewar ships between the disruption frigates and disruption cruisers, we saw the need to make some moderate adjustments to the modules as well as to other ewar ships to keep them competitive.

The reason these are being revealed near the end of our feature announcements is that we were investigating options for a more comprehensive ECM rebalance, however that will not be able to make it into Retribution. These changes are not the final solution for ewar by a long shot, they are incremental changes that will build towards the more complete changes we would like to make to the mechanics.

Here’s what we currently have on our plate for Retribution:


*Reduce Optimal Range and Falloff of all ECM modules by 10%
*Add to the Optimal Range and Falloff bonus on ECM range bonused ships by 2.5% for the Blackbird and Tengu Obfuscation Manifold (bringing it to 12.5%) and 5% for the Scorpion (bringing it to 25%)
*Add four new racial sensor compensation skills that increase each type of Sensor Strength by 5% per level (Requires Electronics 4, rank 3 skills in the Electronics category)


*Increase Optimal Range of all Remote Sensor Dampeners by 20%
*Set the Damp strength bonus on Damp bonused ships to 7.5% per level

Tracking Disruptors

*Reduce TD base module effectiveness by 5%
*Set the TD strength bonus on all TD bonused ships to 7.5% per level

Target Painter

*Set the TP strength bonus on TP bonused ships to 7.5% per level for T1 and 10% per level for T2

We are aware of the effect the new skills will have on probing, and we’re going to be keeping our eyes on it and have a few tricks up our sleeve in that regard.

We also want to reiterate that we are not looking at these ecm changes as a complete solution to the problems with that mechanic. It’s a moderate change that we can make with the resources available for this expansion and that won’t get in the way of our more comprehensive changes down the road.

– CCP Fozzie

[Original Forum Post]


I find the new skills to train a bit troublesome, what do you think?

Send us Intel/Corrections via dropbox or shoot us an e-mail


  1. silence


    November 3, 2012 at 3:40 am Reply
  2. silence

    Nek minit spent 4 bill on damps and TP's

    November 3, 2012 at 3:48 am Reply
  3. suzune

    Thanks for what I am sure will be a one month hosing of my training to satisfy your need to meddle. Failure.

    November 3, 2012 at 6:39 am Reply
    1. sobsobsob

      satisfy the need to balance ewar, if you decided to train something thats overpowered you cant be surprised if it gets nerfed, stop crying.

      November 3, 2012 at 10:54 am Reply
      1. I just do not know

        I think you will find that he was complaining about the skill training…

        November 3, 2012 at 1:26 pm Reply
    2. lol

      Don´t be sad. ECM will still be OP and you will still be able to permajam to your hearts content. Maybe you will just be able to permajam 2 targets instead of 3, or you´ll have to time your jammers more whisely but other than that this nerf will do nothing. ECM faggotry will still be the way to go for people who are bad at eve.

      November 3, 2012 at 1:02 pm Reply
      1. Poor little feller

        QQ much?

        November 6, 2012 at 3:02 am Reply
  4. A Voice of Reason

    Waiting for Falcon pilots to go full retard and rage quit. I'm hoping that's what will happen anyways.

    November 3, 2012 at 8:10 am Reply
    1. Ex Fail dude

      you should have been there when the great falcon nerf hit few years back.

      November 3, 2012 at 12:48 pm Reply
  5. 1a2a3a

    "*Add four new racial sensor compensation skills that increase each type of Sensor Strength by 5% per level (Requires Electronics 4, rank 3 skills in the Electronics category)"

    November 3, 2012 at 8:50 am Reply
    1. Akrasjel Lanate


      November 3, 2012 at 8:52 am Reply
    2. seany1212

      Don't get me wrong, this will be a good thing in null where when solo roaming, you cant get taken down by a cloaky failcon and his frigate companion while being perma-jammed out, but without re-writing the probing code completely (which i couldn't see CCP doing) I can't see how this won't be exploited one way or another because CCP seem to consistently underestimate the ingenuity of new edens residents…

      November 3, 2012 at 10:21 am Reply
      1. M1k3y

        Unprobable T3 boosting coming back Dec 4th…

        November 3, 2012 at 12:14 pm Reply
  6. Guess Who

    25% isnt that much of a difference, stop crying about it.

    Most ships are going to gain 3 to 5 on their base, its not exactly a game breaking change.

    November 3, 2012 at 9:36 am Reply
    1. Sonnillon

      You DO realize that 25% increase in shield strenght effectiely reduces all ECMs’ capabilities by 20% correct ? Well, not that you’d mind -20% damage in any weapon systems, it’s ONLY 20% difference, in’t it ?

      November 3, 2012 at 1:38 pm Reply
    2. BntyHunter

      And that makes ships like the Rook that are basically a small gang only ship even less attractive, i was already on the boarder of being useful as a ECM platform and using it as its tank, smarter now to use 5 ECM Drones 1 Multi ECM and hope you jam him enough to kill him.

      Its very stupid IMO for that ship. Also like I said look how many falcons go ino a big fleet fight and make it out…..In anything where and ship can get into range of the Rook thats already taking a HUGE BLOW TO HML NERF, which is like 95% will kill it.

      This HML+ECM will make the Rook a great small gang ship that added 300 DPS while having a strong 2 jammer presence to basically making engage at scram range and 100% commit.

      Then the idiots who think the HML+ECM nerf is great are gonna realize Scorp sales are gona be x10 and its gonna be OP because guys are gonna start running packs where they get there cruises tracking to 85% of what HML`s are but up to 200km and ECM and a 85k tank rather than a 15k tank.

      Lol this is another "lets base what we see in the tournament" off whats really in game and change it nerf."

      November 4, 2012 at 2:53 am Reply
  7. The_Oracle86


    November 3, 2012 at 11:46 am Reply
    1. l2read

      *Add four new racial sensor compensation skills that increase each type of Sensor Strength by 5% per level (Requires Electronics 4, rank 3 skills in the Electronics category)

      this is

      November 4, 2012 at 11:46 am Reply
  8. pivo

    What? You could't rely on ecm anyways, that just sucks for caldari, first the missile nerf, next the ecm nerf. Caldari is a pariah, why?

    November 3, 2012 at 2:09 pm Reply
    1. peekabuuu

      You could not rely on ecm anyways? Probably that is why everyone and their mom´s have falcon alts on standby these days?!

      November 3, 2012 at 2:16 pm Reply
      1. BntyHunter

        Guess what, its so easy to escape a Falcon its not even funny, how about jup back through gate?

        Or the things are not agile creatures with the tank of a tissue paper, med drones kill it as well….How about lose your Drake for a falcon kill?

        Really so many complain about Falcons but I never found them as a problem after the nerf.

        10v10 they are useful but with Reps and Drones and any missile ship they should be dead fast.

        Infact I hnt them using a Drake with massive tank and FOF`s they are truly suprised when you volley them for 3k and they usually stay to see if they can perma jamm you by then Drones+FOF`s got them and I will trade a 40 mil ship for a 250 mil ship anyday.

        Really whats the fuss about? You know how much more annoying being Damped is in a LR Fleet, You cant target anything the FC calls out and guess what its not chance based so there is no chance o them stopping you have to beg your FC to target them, otherwise you sit and watch and get 0 kills and may die while doing it as Enemy FC`s will often see who`s damp`d kill em and move on. Or how about Dampers hitting Logi and cutting off Scimis 45km range to 10km bringing them into Drake range. And dying because your logi cant rep you.

        Once more imagine 100% certain ECM lock breakers that`s what would shut everyone up and make me happy also as at least I could be useful somewhat in fleets. Now if you bring a Falcon unless its to suicide target a group of logi`s and cut there Logi power by enough to kill there FC you are useless.

        Painters, Webbers,Damp`s rule the day in the age of the LR BS/T3 LR BC period. Falcons may be annoying but they are usually 2 dudes at a gate or in a pack of 10, After 20 though they are the first killed and tacklers will suicide just to kill your 150 mil bird while they lose 15 mil tops on a inty etc.

        Also with faction Painters and Webbers it gets ridiculous in range, and those ships can go very fast 600-800 m/s as Nano fits and hard to hit as a BS, Esp Arty

        November 5, 2012 at 6:12 am Reply
    2. yamyam

      u are one of the madafackars camping with a falcon army orvolle gate?

      November 4, 2012 at 1:34 am Reply
  9. LOL.

    i never really got how someone like CCP Fozzie gets a job as a game designer.

    I mean seriously, it seems almost all changes he announces are based on random whine, rather than on thoughtfull balancing work..

    The Falcom already got nerfed to shit years ago, when they decided to make it “shorter range” and now it gets nerfed even more? How about making the other recons more usefull instead?

    November 3, 2012 at 2:34 pm Reply
    1. hmm

      the falcon didnt really get nerfed did it, you can still perma jam from like 80-100km

      November 3, 2012 at 3:17 pm Reply
      1. BntyHunter

        Good thing its useless in fleet fights where tha others are toally useful.

        Falcon/Rook=Gang, in fleet its insta popped and Scorps are 10x better.

        TP/Web`s= Rail Fleet/Mael FLeet/ Napoc Fleet and has speed to use AB to shed DMG
        Nuets=Are least useful in fleet but still there isnt a BS option to the Curse Pilgrim besides a what? 1.4 bil Pirate BS.

        People complain alot but all but the Falcon/Rook are a better choice in fleets.

        Lach and Huggin are basicall ya must for a Rokh/Mael fleet now to Web/Paint/Damp and they all dont have BS`s that are better than them like the Scorpion is in fleet.

        Caldari=Gang number 1 and useless in Fleets because they are targeted first and a single Pest/Mael Rokh can kill 1 before it warps easily they not only have paper tanks but big sigs and slow speeds unlike minnis AB fits that can stop missile DMG and align warp out.

        Fact is They are balanced now in there use esp now that Rail fits are so popular and rely on support vs Ahacs, without Lach/Hug they wouldn't work.

        So yeah Falcon is reat fighting in 10 man gangs, but now that fleets are easily 100, where as 4 years ago 100 was a strong pretty F*ckin big fleet the story was differant now its way way better to bring Scorps, they can do 350-400 [email protected] while [email protected] Falcons range and have very good insurance coverage.

        Problem with this is no other race has a cheap Webber,Damper,Nueter this means these ships are a must

        They killed the Rook as well, hitting its HML`s [which was its range buffer on its slow ass] Making it go from 300 to a Dessy`s DMG, all while making its tank [range and ECM] that much more less effective. Was one of my favorite ships, will be useless now, it really go raped, meanwhile the Scorp will PWN and with Torps/Cruises getting better it can either hit smaller things that its perma jamming with torps and 1 web dalmost doubling its DPS, or made a 150km boat that can jam and uses very highly trackable Cruises [85% of HML`s now] while having a 85k tank.

        So they ruined the Rook and made he Scorp FOTM f FC`s are smart, and some Ruski group forget who used to use Scorps alot since they act like Falcons that can get 1 Carrier or 5 Logi`s on and basically not die easy, who ever that group was wil be seeing alot more of them and there scorps.

        Also Cruises can hit to Mael+Rokh+T3 BC range meaning hey wil be brough by the boat load, I expect 30 per 100 DMG BS`s. This will make Calds solo small gang even more injured and not the Drake the only ship severly hurt by the Missile/ECM nerfs.

        People think its bad now wait till 20-30 Jammers are on the field but they dont warp off or cloak and they spit 400 DPS of hard hitting DPS on you while you are perma jammed as well, cant Alpha easily, dont run easy and replace very easily……Great Fix you created super falcons at T1.

        November 4, 2012 at 2:37 am Reply
      2. I just do not know

        perma jam from 80-100km, LMAO

        November 4, 2012 at 9:45 am Reply
    2. DarthNefarius

      "i never really got how someone like CCP Fozzie gets a job as a game designer.

      I mean seriously, it seems almost all changes he announces are based on random whine, rather than on thoughtfull balancing work.."

      If that were true he'd already have announced a Cloak breaker module B)B)
      As it is it sounded like some ECM balancing was needed ( I perfer buffs though not nerfs )

      November 3, 2012 at 3:27 pm Reply
      1. SyncVir

        Nerfs to one ship are merely buffs to those ships that kill the nerfed one.

        November 3, 2012 at 4:26 pm Reply
  10. Catwoman

    Isnt Fozzie one the Allianz tournament moderators and buddy of "because of falcon" kil2 loser? He has his direction. Obviously he like Red v Blue style a lot fand hates EW and Cloakers. He might think, if just a load of t1 Frigates, Destroyers and Crusiers blow up, everything is good and that would be good PVP.

    But why do we have then Recons, t2 and t3 shps? Or Capitals and Supers got also hammered. In these days it is hard to become not a bitter vet.

    November 3, 2012 at 3:16 pm Reply
  11. Tub Chil

    I have read a very good suggestion about ECM before

    give ECM jammers new value – base jam time X, say 100 seconds

    X is divided by sensor strength of a jemmed ship Y to calculate time jammed

    so if you succeed to jam rifter that has 8 sensor strength with module that has X=100, Rifter will be jammed for 100/8 = 12.5 seconds
    Maelstrom will be jammed for just 4.76 seconds

    Formula can be fancier or course, and X does not have to be 100

    November 3, 2012 at 3:40 pm Reply
  12. Andrejs L

    I Support this change :)

    November 4, 2012 at 2:10 am Reply
  13. BntyHunter

    ECM gets alot of shit but fact is in Fleet fights they are useless insta popped and very subordinate to Scorps.

    Hug/Lach are a must in fights with LR BS`s so Ahacs dont murder them, hell even a must for T3 BC`s.

    And whats Amarr`s version of the Recon/Combat/ Scorpion? A 1.3 Bil ISK BS.

    Fact is Falcons rule support fr gangs but anything where you have more than say 50 guys its stupid to bring one, best to bring a scorpion that can get repped and not insta popped by Canes and 4 Volleyed by Drakes.

    Falcons in the scheme of thngs are very over rated in 80% of situations of Eve now since Eve is turning into numbers race online.

    People think its bad now wait till 20-30 Jammers are on the field but they dont warp off or cloak and they spit 400 DPS of hard hitting DPS on you while you are perma jammed as well, cant Alpha easily, dont run easy and replace very easily……Great Fix you created super falcons at T1.

    November 4, 2012 at 2:45 am Reply
    1. I just do not know

      I totally agree with this, I tended to use my Falcon against 2 to 3 people and taht is it, anymore and I spend all my time warping in and out. I am looking again at the Scorpion with this, I used to run them quite often but got fed up of FC's warping us in with teh main fleet so stopped flying them, maybe worth setting up a Scorp wing for IRC…

      November 4, 2012 at 9:44 am Reply
      1. BntyHunter

        Do it, its a no-brainer

        Scorps will be buffed by Rooks and Falcons being so useless afterwards.

        They also will get, Cruise bonus because they are only nerfing HML`s not cruises but giving T2 missiles better tracking or DMG etc, So you could make a 85k tank Scorp with 400 [email protected] range with a 80 km ECM range a hard Alpha hit and almost the tracking HML`s have now.

        Boiled down bigger yes, but they survive Alpha Strikes and can be repped, do as much DPS as a Drake upto 250km range, or a 20km 600 DPS Torps Range with way way better tracking than now, with almost same ECM strength, but primarily its like bringng a Drake`s DPS and tracking with 85% Falcons jamming and 4-5x its tank….

        It really is the future. Also Imagine them hanging with your logi, say orbiting them while they completely Jamm other logi and like I said hit a target for real DPS like 400ish rather than 1 gun on Falcon to whore on KM`s, and remember the drone bay as well, maybe add a nice few more lights to kill tacklers and bubblers etc.

        Why bring a Drake and a Falcon when you can have a 80km Drake`s DMG [550 if BS`s sized targets] and Falcon whom can Jam but gets popped very first from enemy FC and intantly killed since LR BS`s like the Rokh or T3 bc`s like Naga can kill you so easily, Arty ma miss you Abing but Rails track alot better and the tank of a Falcon is teribad its designed to be use its ECM as its tank, but in fleet fights there just to many, also why buy a way more expensive way less payout in insurance fo this superior ship?

        Imagine the Scorp being a bigger tougher Rook, its got a good amount of DPS and better tank just not as god as a Falcon 1 to 1, but in fleets in numbers imagine a group of 20 80km Rooks with drone bays and 3x the tank.

        Scorp is highly underated

        November 5, 2012 at 5:56 am Reply
  14. Right in the truth

    Making each player train sensors for each race is really bad. Damp's don't need to be buffed, they are good. It's only because ecm is so much better. They should just nerf ecm and leave damps alone.

    Overall these changes are pretty bad. Just give ECM a small nerf, buff painters and call it a day.

    November 4, 2012 at 5:23 am Reply
  15. wine wine wine , no wonder eves going to shit

    November 4, 2012 at 11:12 am Reply
  16. Interesting changes….wonder how it'll turn out.

    November 4, 2012 at 12:44 pm Reply
  17. shit

    kill all the fuckin falcons for god sake

    moar nerf ffs moar fuckin nerf to those baddies

    November 4, 2012 at 6:25 pm Reply
  18. BntyHunter

    Great so now a Rook cant use ECM as ank, nor can it use range from HML`s+ECM nor speed, nor actual tank….They just made a ship useless.

    All the while making Falcons less but still useful to camp gates, just with 1 more jammer, and a few skills in which the guys who have falcon alts have.

    Also Cald ECM is never used in fleets since fleets can insta pop hem as they are slow have a huge sig for a cruiser, and can be replaced by a Scorp costing half as much doing both a Drakes DPS and a Falcons [email protected] 80km with 85k tank instead of 15-18k tank…..Man they are great at not fixing problems and putting bandaids on things.

    November 5, 2012 at 6:17 am Reply
  19. Because of Falcon

    The people that will probably be affected the most are the few blops entities like DNS or ISRAD since their fleets tend to be fragile and expensive are were reliant on the Falcon. T3 variant blops philo seems to be taking hold though.

    November 6, 2012 at 12:53 am Reply
  20. slothen

    Wow, it only took 3 years to get them to boost damps to 7.5%


    November 8, 2012 at 8:49 pm Reply
  21. Just found this blog. excellent article. how long have you been writing? this is good writing. are you a journalist aswell?

    November 15, 2012 at 7:27 am Reply
  22. The need to make some moderate adjustments to the modules as well as to other ewar ships to keep them competitive.

    November 20, 2012 at 9:46 am Reply

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