The “Goons and TEST suck at EVE” is a strange statement. It’s not a curse told by enemies, it’s something they call themselves. Many think that this is a psychological warfare trick “we’re so bad and you still lost to us – what does that make you?” but it makes little sense, the enemy could easily counter it with talking about Goons as “worthy opponents” and clarify to their members that they are facing a skilled enemy.

Also, it makes little sense to decrease the self-esteem of their own people internally. However they take the “we are bad at EVE” attitude seriously. Want downvotes and hate? Post something on TEST forums about “bad killboard”.

“We are bad at EVE” on the one hand helps a lot to newbies to learn. There is no pressure on anyone to look like a pro. You can ask newbie questions and perform silly mistakes and get help instead of hate. Sure you get laughter and mocking too, but the supportive “we’ve been there” kind. Nothing tells it better how welcoming TEST to newbies is then the event when the Foxcat fleet, full of multi-year pilots in 1B+ ships was waiting for 10 minutes until a few-days old newbie in a Rifter could finally figure out how to bridge. The titan pilot carefully explained him to approach, right-click, jump. When he made it, he was greeted with cheers.

This attitude also helps a lot for really good players to mesh with newbie/casual/not too bright players. Everyone predicted the cooperation between Pandemic Legion and TEST to be short-lived, but its not. Flying in fleets shown me the reason: the attitude in TEST towards PL is a genuine will to learn. People love to teach newbies, what they hate is the “dun tell me how2play u nolifer” attitude in bad players. Also, the “we are bad in EVE” attitude allows something that no “self respecting” alliance would let happen: coalition fleets mostly filled by TEST people are lead by PL FCs.

While a humble attitude helps newbies to learn faster, the fact that they are newbies shouldn’t help them to win against the “elite”. A fast-learning newbie becomes “elite” faster while a “dun tell me how2play u nolifer” guy might never, but it shouldn’t affect the outcome: until you are “elite” you are pwned. And while claiming that all Goons and TEST are bad is surely not right, there are undoubtably people there who are clearly bad at EVE. CFC loses titans on a weekly schedule in hilarious circumstances, checking TEST killboards can give you the idea that the best solo PvP-er of this game is Corpus Pope and there is always someone who dies to a gatecamp between K6 and 4-0 despite it was clearly told to move in groups. A bunch of “elite PvP” players should roflstomp a team that is littered with Daves Dreams. I mean seriously, what chance would a team containing such players would have in a WoW arena against a top rated team?

However CFC and HBC, built on Goons and TEST are winning battles left and right. Their Sovereignity conquests were only criticized as “not fast enough” even by their opponents. The most “elite” alliances, -A- and NC. were just beaten out of their space by them. How?

The answer lies in my own newbie fleet experience. Despite my blog was littered with “u haz no place in a logi n00b u haz 2 learn the art of pew first or ull b ded weight”, my first PvP engagement was in a Scimitar. My only problem on this fleet was that my overview as sub-optimal (though usable). In the rest of the fleets everything went perfectly, I repped, I did not die, I did not get lost, I wasn’t any worse than most. Good luck doing the same in WoW, playing a new class in Arena or on a raid. There are 100+ hours of leveling before that and most people are still utterly useless. What the hell is going on here?

The solution is that there are no relevant gaming skills in EVE for the average large fleet pilot. You don’t need good reaction time, you don’t need situational awareness, you don’t need to memorize 50+ hotkeys, all you need is orbit the anchor, target the broadcasted one and press F1-4. Unless you have some disability, you should be performing at 70-80% of the perfect at the first time, assuming you fit your ship as told and downloaded the overview pack. In WoW, until you learn the boss dance perfectly you worth zero. You’ll be dead making the group hitting enrage.

“Elite playing” is necessary in WoW endgame, meaning perfect memorizing the boss patterns or enemy classes, hitting the proper key in the proper milisecond. “Elite PvP” in EVE Sov warfare does not exist outside of FC-ing and running specific roles. These roles are crucial and without a few very skilled players the fleet couldn’t do anything. But for the simple fleet members “elite PvP” is totally irrelevant for taking systems. And unfortunately the champions of “elite PvP” want to have a place on the map.

TEST and Goons are winning because the “we are bad at EVE” attitude prevents their members from focusing on totally irrelevant things like killboard statistics, 1v1 duels, getting and fitting ships that can get them solo kills while useless in fleet and prevent them chase away useful newbies. If you try to be good at PvP, you get worse in fleet as you spent your resources on something vanity. This only changes if you get really good and there is a need for one more specialist. For “Drake#541” or even “Guardian#26” (who is me) having solo kills in EVE is no different than having rare mounts in WoW. Instead the Goons/TEST rank and file members focus on the things that are relevant in EVE: the social skills allowing to get more people in the fleet and getting ISK to have ships.

Social people are naturally tending towards boosting their ego, trying to look better than peers. The “we are bad at EVE” attitude is almost necessary to prevent one to lose focus on the goal and shift to e-peen stroking.

– Glevon Globin

Gevlon Globin is famous in the Word of Warcraft circle for having mastered the “gold-cap” concept. His Eve journey show a very interesting “outside the box” approach to the game, PVE and the trade hubs, reason for which we invite you to pay a visit to his blog.

Send us Intel/Corrections via dropbox or shoot us an e-mail

96 Comments

  1. IRC groen

    True, but CFC and Goons should stop complaining about other alliances (NCdot and -A-) not willing to play their game.

    Seems that NCdot and -A- are perfectly fine with losing the space, if they can blaap 100+ noobs a day on gates, stations and in plexes.

    November 2, 2012 at 8:59 am Reply
    1. Bittervet

      Oh, by the way – IRC guy …. great job holding the CSAA.

      November 2, 2012 at 9:49 am Reply
    2. Nem

      "if they can blaap 100+ noobs a day on gates, stations and in plexes. "

      Confirming this is Elite PvP

      November 2, 2012 at 1:22 pm Reply
      1. cmon bro

        Confirming you wouldn't kno wat elite pvp was if it screwed your mother in front you

        November 2, 2012 at 3:11 pm Reply
        1. Justchecking

          That's how an intelligent person with proper education answers to a provocation/trolling!

          November 2, 2012 at 6:21 pm Reply
      2. Guest

        Blaping newbs in plexes, anoms, and on gates is elite PvP? Care to try again? Jumping into a camp outnumbered and killing off the support while burning out of range of the main body is elite PvP. Jumping a AHAC gang into 2 fleets of reds fighting it out and whelping both fleets in elite. A wing of bombers wiping out a retarded T3 BC fleet is elite PvP. Rooks and Knights is elite PvP.
        killing a few PvE fit nagas or tengus in a anom is what?

        December 28, 2012 at 2:26 pm Reply
    3. kappo

      I had thought it was the other way around with NCDOT and -A- complaining the CFC wasn't playing their game, of just playing for good fights?

      November 2, 2012 at 2:07 pm Reply
  2. Its like russia in the WWII, they are not the best, far from it, but the biggest resource they have are ppl and lots of it, that makes fighting against them in the long run a pain, not cause they are the best but because they can keep pouring ppl into the fight..

    November 2, 2012 at 9:12 am Reply
    1. Irreligious

      So does this make Mittens into Stalin? Who gets to be Zhukov? Can I be Vasilevsky? You do make a very good point though.

      November 2, 2012 at 10:53 am Reply
      1. Bittervet

        No, Mittens is Beria. Suas is Krushchev. Stalin would be … hmmmm ….

        November 2, 2012 at 11:10 am Reply
    2. Götterdämmerung

      This is really spot on. Use brute force to stop the enemy and then, when you are getting better at the game, push them back. And NCdot and -A- are like the Germans: be very good with few high tech ship and get swamped by a larger enemy. You can say you don't care but then don't fight them and give up the game as sov holding entity.

      November 2, 2012 at 10:59 am Reply
      1. Ok, am going to let this one slip through, the next WWII reference gets the ban hammer! :@

        November 2, 2012 at 3:26 pm Reply
        1. olan

          why ban hammer

          November 2, 2012 at 3:30 pm Reply
          1. Bittervet

            Because Brusilov is a better example of Goon strategy than Zhukov, of course !

            November 2, 2012 at 3:59 pm
          2. Bronson

            Talking about the war in this way is still a sensetive subject in some parts of the world. If your an American or an Arab imagine Twin Towers / War on Terrorism analogies x100.

            November 3, 2012 at 3:00 am
          3. lol

            The USA has freedom, unlike Europe the US has freedom of speech so people aren't torment and arrested for talking. You are a vagina.

            November 3, 2012 at 5:36 pm
          4. what the hell have you been smoking?

            November 3, 2012 at 5:51 pm
        2. DarthNefarius

          I was going to bait you with a Hitler parody but those tight arsed Nazi's took down them down due to copyright issues so here's a Stalin parody[youtube TeO5s0cAQb0&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeO5s0cAQb0&feature=related youtube]

          November 2, 2012 at 5:01 pm Reply
          1. DarthNefarius

            " but they sure love camping"
            xD

            November 2, 2012 at 5:05 pm
        3. concerned player

          lot what about freedom of speech? Evenews don't hold up to that right?

          Actually that makes perfect sense

          November 3, 2012 at 5:33 pm Reply
        4. lol ? whats wrong with the reference i made? its true

          November 3, 2012 at 5:50 pm Reply
    3. Makalu_Zarya

      stop comparing goons and test to the great country that Soviet Union was when we won the war. We fought and died because there was no choice. Saying that we were bad and won because we had the biggest this and that…screw you buddy go learn some history. We won because we had the will to win, and because losing was not an option.

      If soviet union didn't win that war we'd be writing in German right now anyway.

      November 3, 2012 at 7:06 pm Reply
      1. hurrrr

        this is why The Wis blew his face off with a shotgun, because you're a bad poster

        November 5, 2012 at 7:33 pm Reply
  3. Same NRDS Dude

    Conclusion of reading: Goons and test are wow players ..

    November 2, 2012 at 9:16 am Reply
  4. The_Oracle86

    omg after the second paragragh it was blah blah blah blah…….

    November 2, 2012 at 9:22 am Reply
    1. Bittervet

      No actually.

      Test took a financial carebear, and he was a useful logi.

      His point is the Goon pro-newbie culture loses skirmishes and wins wars.

      Oh, and a Scimmy … thats hi-tech, man. The Goons won their first great victory with Ospreys.

      November 2, 2012 at 9:31 am Reply
  5. druid_cilnok

    Making eve fun for 10000 people, means 10000 people will tell their friends eve is fun. More players = more fun for the rest of eve. I felt almost heart warmed after this news piece, and it isn't even Christmas yet.

    November 2, 2012 at 9:53 am Reply
  6. Observer

    To summarize this wall of text:

    Goons and TEST are bad at eve, but blobbing still wins battles.

    November 2, 2012 at 9:55 am Reply
    1. Bittervet

      No, I'd flip that around.

      Being utterly inept at recruiting loses battles, loses wars and loses space.

      Again, Gevon's side were +1 logi because they recruited him.

      November 2, 2012 at 10:11 am Reply
      1. Observer

        You are not flipping it around, you are confirming that skill and individualism is irrelevant and blobbing still wins battles :)

        November 2, 2012 at 10:41 am Reply
        1. Bittervet

          Observer,

          Absolutely wrong. There are different sort of skill – for example, Vince Draken is utterly inept at diplomacy and looking after allies … at that part of the game he is 'autojumping through Old Man Star' bad.

          The Goons are very very good at coordinating logistics and training new players. Thats skill, right there.

          November 2, 2012 at 11:08 am Reply
          1. Observer

            Whatever you are trying to say, you are still confirming that blobbing wins battles. Maybe cuz its true?

            November 2, 2012 at 11:16 am
          2. Observer

            Half the time sheer numbers scare an opponent and make them not even try to adapt or test new things. Any situation , given enough preparation and skills, can be overcome.
            You may lose the battle but the war can be far from over. Unless you give up, then they have won. Simple as that.

            November 2, 2012 at 12:02 pm
          3. dani lizardov

            I very much like Vince diplomacy
            If you don't like it, reset it!

            I guess you can call bud liking and lack of balls, skill as well.

            November 2, 2012 at 11:55 am
      2. cmon bro

        Yes it is really difficult to find some baddies and group uo with them to cover your inept tendencies to suck. Real difficult. Don't kid yourself, while ill admit that organizing everyone is a feat, getting blue w/ someone is the easy way out. The reason we dont do wat u do isn't because we can't, it's because we dont want to play on easy mode. We don't the reason for us winning to be that we had enough retards hitting f1. We want it to be because everyone did their job and brought thier star player. If that means we lose from time to time so be it. Better than becoming what you despise

        November 2, 2012 at 3:21 pm Reply
    2. Treston_Cal

      I think I took it as the writer saying, WoW > Eve since there is more skill for a boss dance…

      November 2, 2012 at 11:38 am Reply
      1. erroch

        I think he's saying exactly the opposite. EvE is better then WoW because in WoW to contribute you more or less have to memorize a playbook, follow it perfectly and god help you if you try to innovate.

        November 2, 2012 at 4:31 pm Reply
        1. Justchecking

          As a 7 years old WoW player (Thanks to EvE I'm clean for more than a year!!) I can tell you that the tactics and the playbooks are more or less general directions like "Dont stand in the fire!! or "If you stand at that corner you get a boost". If you can manage to do your job without following the tactics 100% but 50% or 30% no one will tell you anything.

          To be honest I dont know why would anyone compare WoW with EvE since its 2 different games with 2 different game styles..

          November 2, 2012 at 6:11 pm Reply
          1. someone else

            Thank you, really. I literally hate this "eve is real, wow sucks" drivel.

            EVE = Sandbox game, competitive PvP
            WoW = competitive PvE, PvP only in very small, even balanced scale.

            I like both. Eve for its childish, "we hate all"-community, great PvP and.. Hell, its about freaking Spaceships. WoW for its trolls, its great PvE-Content and it's 'instant action'.

            November 4, 2012 at 9:26 am
  7. Mercfromabove

    seemed to me that was a comparison between WoW and EvE 😛

    I never really looked at goons / TEST that way before… In the back of my mind i have always though 'ahh, pfft, TEST.. yeah they are pretty bad'. But your actually making me sympathize with them! how did you do that?!

    Last note, i agree that most large scale fights don't need much skill, but thats MOST, and not all. I watched an NC. video of ishtars taking on goons Maelstroms / tempests. Even though it is still the same F1-4 principle, the execution is a lot harder and it comes down to the 'know how' of the pilot in that kind of situation

    November 2, 2012 at 10:00 am Reply
  8. dani lizardov

    Elite PVP is term created by the same bunch, that call them self bad at EVE, only to make there theme sounds stronger.

    The authors is right about the ELITE does not count in large fleet fights. That is why the CFCs are wining space and structure shoots…

    How ever I disagree with the overall propaganda article. There are few facts that the author misses, maybe because he does not know em, that will complete the picture he is painting… "We are bad" vs "The Elite"

    Like for example: there a people in this game, that enjoy having fights. 1vs1, small gang, large fleets… it does not matter.
    I log-in in this game to shoot other people. Much like the game World of Tanks.
    You "the bad ones" log-in in this game to gains something from the game Environment. Like Space, Moons, NPCs. Much like WOW….

    "TEST and Goons are winning because the “we are bad at EVE” attitude prevents their members from focusing on totally irrelevant things like killboard statistics, 1v1 duels, getting and fitting ships that can get them solo kills while useless in fleet and prevent them chase away useful newbies"

    This is wrong on so many levels. This attitude, prevents those players form exploring the true nature of EVE Online.
    I am not going go in details what are you missing out, the author sad it perfectly… much like in WOW.

    November 2, 2012 at 10:10 am Reply
    1. Bittervet

      No, go into details.

      Explain to me why Tri – and dont make a mistake, NCdot are Tri – failure cascade so often.

      By the way, with the loss of Evoke to add to the loss of BL, Tri are failure cascading. Again.

      November 2, 2012 at 10:14 am Reply
      1. dani lizardov

        lol :)
        We all do make mistakes.
        There is no "don't make mistakes" attitude.
        There are only scrubs, that can't take it when there mistakes are pointed out.

        Second part of the post I don't get… Maybe because I am bad at EVE

        November 2, 2012 at 11:14 am Reply
        1. Nem

          Elite PvPers tend to be unable to elaborate when asked what sets them apart from the rest of the game in large fleet fights. As far as I can tell they anchor and f1 just like everybody else.

          November 2, 2012 at 1:20 pm Reply
          1. kappo

            I think they do it with a minimum SP number though, very important.

            November 2, 2012 at 2:10 pm
          2. nc.

            Tri failscades cuz of pride. Everyone in nc. takes a lot of pride in being good at this game, we have a natural desire to win and are highly competitive. That pride, while it keels pushing us to get better, is also our fatal flaw. Ppl clash n disagree and get a bit to butt hurt. It's unfortunate but it's w,/e, ofyrn u hear ppl say dont bitch because u can't make friends, but we don't want to win through diplomacy, we want to win through being the best. So we will take our wins, take our losses, and continue tryin to be perfect. As my romanian friend says, Is military! Not hospital for pregnant womens, here birds do not sing nd sun is not hot. And nc. Is far from a failscade.

            November 2, 2012 at 3:08 pm
          3. Bittervet

            Well, thats not strictly true.

            One of the things lots of skill points lets you do is switch between ships – for example, a 500k skill point Hero Tackler flies a Rifter with a MWD, a point and a web. A 2m point pilot flies a Hero Rifter, or a Blackbird, or a Caracal. A 5m point pilot flies a Cane, a Drake, a Hero Rifter, a Blackbird, or a Caracal, and so on and so forth.

            Therefore, our Elite PvP types, with a little intel support, can say 'Ahaha, our enemies approach in slow, armour tanked battleships. Bring me my nanohac !', or 'Ahah, our enemies approach in a Drake Blob, bring me my laser-wielding, kinetic resisting ball of armoured pain !'.

            Of course, none of these things help when you fail at recruitment and diplomacy.

            November 2, 2012 at 4:02 pm
          4. lol

            I thought it was clear, pilot skill. The average person in the bad alliances cannot function properly in fleet, they make mistakes constantly. This is why all the bads in Goons/Test die so much in bad ways.

            November 3, 2012 at 5:41 pm
      2. a Nulli dude

        Elrond to Gandalf : "Our list of allies grows thin"!!
        ==========
        Elrond: You're outnumbered, Aragorn. You need more men.
        Aragorn: There are none.
        Elrond: There are those who dwell in the mountain.
        Aragorn: Murderers. Traitors. You would call upon them to fight? They believe in nothing. They answer to no one.
        Elrond: They will answer to the king of Gondor.

        : )

        November 2, 2012 at 4:06 pm Reply
        1. Zod

          or to Zod…who has a long term goal…join ME and we will subdue them!

          November 4, 2012 at 7:24 am Reply
      3. Bitterer vet.

        Those are two different things: “not playing the game”, and “TRI”.

        The “TRI” group cascade so often because they have friends and not pets. Loaded words to argue over, but i don’t mean it as a . The point is that they are not one unified entity. You tend to argue even with the best of friends, you don’t tend to argue with your dog. A pet has nothing to do with how you treat it. Mittens dog is probably treated as a family member, but effectively remain a pet. She will never cease to be a pet, as they will never become relative equals or develop a balanced co-dependency. It’s a question of dependency, not (mal-) treatment. Goons have scored a major propaganda victory making the community belive that “pets” ever had anything to do with attitude because the term is negatively loaded. Good on them, shame on you.

        The question of “playing the game” can be summed up like this: For the past 5 years CCP have made changes in the game that have not been attentative to scale. The results is “numbers” growing as a commodity (or a factor) in relation to other resources in the game. Letting passive income (moons) and affordable resources (cheap ships) drive the game inevitably favour numbers.

        To put that more simple: assume your typical grunt in a Drake. Today his skillpoints skill passively, he can stay logged out of the game only to login at a jabber ping to join a fleet for a strategic objective. He does not have to fund his own ship, that is funded through the imbalance between passive income and power of Tech I ships (which CCP continue to feed). By extension, that means he doesn’t have to play any other aspect of the game. So he doesn’t actually play “the game”. It’s pointless for him and interacting with him become relatively pointless. He does not have to play PvE, so he is not logged in to do so, thus other players will not interact with him outside of his presence in the largest fleet.

        That is EVE today. It’s a game full of people “not playing the game”. It’s a tough situation because for an economy division on a developer side, that is an ideal situation. Income trickle in, without people actually playing the game and demanding more of it’s content.

        That’s also what Glevin miss in his analysis of EVE. It’s not really a question of the proverbial “F1” being too good. In EVE, just as everywhere else, a superior strategy and execution is advantageous. However, since losing ships doesn’t matter and keeping people in relatively effective ships is intolerably powerful, those factors have dwindled away from the game and come to mean much less.

        The “problem” (for those of you who consider it one) is twopronged: it’s too easy keeping people in ships and logged in only at specific times, thanks to the malbalance of income and outlet (faucet and sink). That also mean that shooting a pilot in such a situation also become pointless. You can shoot and kill his ship, but the loss doesn’t matter so your action in doing so (or your own strategy and execution) become equally pointless. That’s why numbers increasingly cement it’s position as “the only commodity”.

        What should scare you is that CCP have still not caught onto this: they are still premiering passive income over active income, and they are still premiering “affordable ships to get more explosions”. Those fights however get concentrated. So we get fewer but larger fights. Ultimately, that is less content. Less separate engagements, restricted to more isolated areas of the map.

        That’s why “cool new Tech I cruisers” should scare the living daylight out of you, because it’s more pointless explosions, rather than being more “F1”.

        November 3, 2012 at 2:09 am Reply
        1. Bitterer vet.

          I forgot to add: before you chirp at Goons you should note that even they are ahead of CCP in this regard. They have been championing ideas (for the past year or so) to put player income back in player hands, and players back in space. So while you can moan at them for using the system to their advantage, and for being quite conservative in some regard (not wanting all their candy taken), they have realized the issues and effects on the community and occassionally try to do something about it. That is more than what can be said for other groups, and it’s more than what can be said for the development side over the past “18 months”.

          November 3, 2012 at 2:16 am Reply
        2. Bittervet

          Bitterervet,

          Before GS had tech, the Goon ship replacement program funded rifters.

          But the key is they *had* a SRP focussed at the bottom, not at helping the elite into supercaps.

          Once GS became rich – and it wasnt the tech, it was the internal support given to their industrial and market wings following the loss of Delve and so on – the SRP could be expanded.

          But I think you have it exactly backwards with passive income – its the slumlord renters with 'citizen' alliances who keep most of the toons safely afk before they need to dual-box four capitals onto the field.

          GS and Test won because of a bottom-up culture.

          And regarding 'not playing the game', just see the number of people who think GS and Test space is worth roaming in, to find ratters in belts and anomalies – theres some evidence, right there.

          November 3, 2012 at 9:50 pm Reply
          1. Bitterer vet.

            Bittervet:
            Bear in mind: i’m not talking about players being afk ingame to deny targets. I’m talking about players not playing the game at all because they don’t have to. They are not logged in, they play other games instead waiting for something to happen. Something, being the potential larger fleet engagement.

            It’s not a question of culture:
            SRP have always funded the ships an alliance intend to use. That’s afterall why you have SRP: to keep your players in the kind of ship you deem effective. That some groups are only top-down while others are bottom-up and that’s what would set them apart is an exaggeration. More so, it’s besides the point.

            Culture is second to game design:
            The question is not a culture being dominant because of a natural good. That’s just another piece of propaganda people seem all too happy to lap up spoonfuls of these days. In a game like EVE the world is defined by the designers who shape it. Currently, the overarching faucet-sink balance favour numbers and continued development seem to continue that trend. Any cultures or traditions that benefit from that, wether it’s “friendship” or “slumlords”, is really of peripheral importance by comparison. The current balance favour both “friendship” and “slumlords” to a degree that have stagnating effects on the game as a whole.

            Game design > any culture.

            November 4, 2012 at 10:09 am
          2. Bittervet

            Bitterer Vet,

            Completely disagree. The proof, for me, is to check the Goons' income from ratting taxes, as compared to "elite PvP" alliances.

            The Goons' moon income, for so long, was their ratting taxes – and by report their ratting taxes is still a decent chunk of their income.

            On the other hand, the "elite PvP"supercap-based alliances relied on Dyspro/Tech or rental income, split between a smaller number of pilots.

            As an example, PL stayed logged off, or logged on spy alts, until an op, because otherwise its too easy to track supercap toons … and defending that dyspro/tech or rental income depended on how many supercaps you could field for an op, not on pilot activity on the other 30 days in the month.

            November 6, 2012 at 5:09 am
          3. Anthropologist

            All conflict, human or inhuman, in-game or out, favors numbers. In an environment where technology is available to all, the deciding factor can only come down to mighty heroes and numbers. Since mighty heroes are always few in number, and can be brought down by adding a few extra friends to the dog pile, The numbers will always win.
            If, on the other hand, CCP decides to introduce technology that only the elite can use (i.e. the Trojan Phalanx, or the American H-Bomb), then maybe things will change. But who gets to decide which group that has declared itself better, elite, more evolved, whatever, will get the new technology?

            November 6, 2012 at 6:04 am
  9. Nothing new, really. Tho its sad when such player whant to leave the herp derp blob festival. He would probally dont know how to fit his own ship. ( Burp)

    November 2, 2012 at 11:44 am Reply
  10. Shattershark

    I was there to press F1 on command.

    November 2, 2012 at 11:48 am Reply
  11. U know who

    The op is corect in many ways, however experience shows in fleet engagements. When to warp off, remembering to keep range, knowing when to manually target a ship thats webbing you, understanding and predicting what the FC will likely call next and anything that requires coordination like AHacs or alpha fleets would be out of the question with less experienced players. When the FC dies things go badly quickly if there not enough experience on the field. While test has the upper hand in huge F1 mash fests they are more or less one dimensional. That dimension works now for big sov battles. test and company will understand their weaknesses when the blob disbands and they try to use the space they now own. They will be farmed to no end.

    November 2, 2012 at 12:18 pm Reply
    1. Bittervet

      U know who,

      And where you learn those things is fights. I'd argue Test are reasonably bad right now. But 12 months ago thery were very, very bad.

      In another 12 months, the quality gap will have shrunk further.

      November 4, 2012 at 1:40 am Reply
  12. burnjita

    Thank you Captain Obvious
    i was blind all those years i played this game and now i can see how pvp rly works in eve.
    furthermore you spend us clueless people your wisdom and compared EvE fleet pvp with WoW pve…

    seriously … whats wrong with you?

    November 2, 2012 at 12:25 pm Reply
  13. Kiyohime Ronuken

    CFC will play their game, we'll play ours. Carry on.

    November 2, 2012 at 1:20 pm Reply
    1. kappo

      well said

      November 2, 2012 at 2:10 pm Reply
  14. Indy

    I hate the new design/ layout of the site with passion an I don't log in as often anymore, just had to say it :)

    This is a great article and wery few spelling mistakes kudos,
    I agree with all that u said and when I return to eve I will join test for sure.

    Even though they seem to have too many people for my liking and I would
    rather join one where I matter more.

    And again kudos to monty who did what he did with his alliance :)

    November 2, 2012 at 2:11 pm Reply
  15. pipi

    The Power of CFC strike in the giant industrial and economic power that they have. They can destroy all days in CTAs, others not.

    November 2, 2012 at 2:40 pm Reply
    1. Bittervet

      Pipi,

      This used to be something GS was terribad at – their lack of a cap fleet was one of the structural features of the game for many years.

      November 2, 2012 at 4:03 pm Reply
  16. Heydude

    GSF, and Test are winning at eve b/c they blue everyone, thats how you win at sov. warefare.

    November 2, 2012 at 3:16 pm Reply
  17. Observer

    I think everybody is just doing what they want to do in the EVE Sandbox. HBC/CFC want to win EVE by taking all the sov, so eventually that's what they'll do. -A- and NCDOT want to win at EVE by loading up their killboards, so they'll give up sov and focus on killing HBC and CFC pilots in small-fight situations, which, as we're already seen, is pretty easy to do. Null sec will eventually be completely blue, but nobody will be bored cause fighting will continue with all the PvP alliances forced into NPC nullsec.

    November 2, 2012 at 4:28 pm Reply
  18. Anona-mouse

    All I got from this was "blah blah blah HBC/CFC propaganda blah blah blah I know about pvp because I'm a high sec carebear merchant blah blah blah join us so you can have all blues within a 50 jump radius blah blah blah."

    November 2, 2012 at 4:44 pm Reply
    1. Justchecking

      Please read again and try to understand what words the letters form. If you manage that it wont be "blah blah blah" nor will it be "join us so you can have all blues within 50 jumps radius".

      Im not in favor of HBC or CFC but you have to admit that in some fleets of good pvpiers people are afraid to ask something because they fear the sarcasm and the likes that will follow before they even get an answer.

      About the carebear (though I dont agree with the term) I'm pretty sure that when you joined EvE for the first time you didnt know how to pvp and you spend time to run missions/make money so I dont see why a few days/months old players should be hated/called carebears just because they try to make ISK and keep playing this game.

      November 2, 2012 at 6:07 pm Reply
  19. NC. Scrubb

    Really don’t care if we face blobs but the tidi (new lag) takes the fun out of the game.

    November 2, 2012 at 5:43 pm Reply
  20. postin toaster

    Since Goons/TEST both fly the banner of "we are bad at eve" and then mock -A- for being shit. That would mean that -A- is better than Goons/TEST.

    and now i am going to jump of a cliff in florida to make up for this -a- post.

    November 2, 2012 at 6:57 pm Reply
  21. fuck goons

    goons and test are shit because they must have more numbers to win any fight and they blob sov…

    November 2, 2012 at 9:00 pm Reply
    1. buggrit

      You could say americans and russians lost the war because they blobbed it.

      November 2, 2012 at 10:35 pm Reply
  22. Random Miner

    Goons can afford to be terrible and lose ships. And as for Test…. Goons can afford for Test to be terrible and lose ships… lol

    November 2, 2012 at 11:45 pm Reply
  23. Gunny

    He who controls all the Tec wins. Plus throw enough shit at a wall and some of it will stick, thats the extent of what goons do. Its about numbers not talent. goons have no talent, never have, never will.

    November 3, 2012 at 5:02 am Reply
  24. waffelweib

    Gevlon Globin… Glevon Goblin… Glevon Globin… Wut?

    November 3, 2012 at 10:52 am Reply
  25. Guest

    most elite pvp ive seen in eve seems to involve kiting in faction ships witha shitload of nanos in the lows or a cloak.

    November 4, 2012 at 1:26 am Reply
  26. Zod

    One major foundational difference between EVE play and WoW play is overlooked–the implications of which is quite enormous and leads to paradox for EVE. In WoW a human being is interfacing with a simulation of human avatar for which tactics and strategies are more than likely hardwired into the symbiont (player). In EVE the governance of a simulation is that of a machine driven by a human pilot. Simulation referents and bindings from the nervous system to the patterns of activity are more in line with "common sense" (as much as possible, given the magic elements)–a situation for which the new player in EVE suffers from a alienation of himself from the situation (intuition bindings are weak–he must resort to other tools for his "calculus" of decision making).

    November 4, 2012 at 5:28 am Reply
    1. Zod

      just realized that was a lot of words to say

      "EVE and WoW are different"

      AUTOFAIL

      November 4, 2012 at 6:41 am Reply
  27. Zod

    Quote: "The “Goons and TEST suck at EVE” is a strange statement. It’s not a curse told by enemies, it’s something they call themselves. Many think that this is a psychological warfare trick “we’re so bad and you still lost to us – what does that make you?” but it makes little sense, the enemy could easily counter it with talking about Goons as “worthy opponents” and clarify to their members that they are facing a skilled enemy."

    I cannot make sense of this — you seem to envision a counterattack that is marginally effective and therefore eliminates 100% of the effects of the first trick. But psy-ops is not about the few that are immune, but the other that are not–if the purpose is to create chaos or increase bold (and sometimes stupidity) in a few players, then the attack is success. Viruses don't care (or even see) the resistant structures that are immune to them…that doesn't keep some of the less immune from falling victim to the hoax.

    November 4, 2012 at 7:22 am Reply
  28. HipHop

    a lot ppl with opinions………some good, some retarded, about NC. was pretty simple[ not enough numbers to fight CFC coalition] why ppl told them elite pvp fail i wont understand ever cause fighting 3 vs 1 wont make u hero ever , what i will want to see in this game is like a CFC coalition to fight one da same, like CFC vs HBC sound interesting ah? and at least 1 vs 1 with numbers but wont happen cause CFC will suck so bad and will dessapair like morsus mihi when CFC will fight with egal numbers im gonna quit eve, so stop smacking cause what u win is because of your numbers not because u have heros and competent fc's or some fantastic strategy's cause all game know what CFC can do……is verry simple…hope in future this stupid politic in eve will create 3 or 4 huge coalitions and will smach each other or will be just one CFC and all 0.0 space blue and ppl will start quit

    November 4, 2012 at 12:51 pm Reply
  29. Luwc

    oh gawd , all these butthurt scrubs that got their shit taken away from them by CFC & HBC … especially -A- FC makalu lol

    November 11, 2012 at 10:34 am Reply
  30. Post something on TEST forums about “bad killboard”.

    November 20, 2012 at 9:46 am Reply
  31. Bittervet

    With no renting botters and no sov space with moons, you'll need to run level 4 missions to replace high end ships.

    Just saying.

    November 2, 2012 at 4:04 pm Reply
  32. Alwayslaughaha

    If this is really your view than why have you held sov for so many years?

    November 2, 2012 at 6:08 pm Reply
  33. old timer

    you are , once more , proving that you understand nothing about sov war .

    sovs are needed to make money , wich is used to make war . but i am speaking to someone who uses isk to make real life money , so i why do i even bother ?

    if you care only about fights, go to low sec . there you will be able to shoot everybody.

    November 2, 2012 at 6:26 pm Reply
  34. Just Bob

    "only wanted that sov for fights"
    >Runs from every fight
    >doesn't contest a single timer

    November 2, 2012 at 10:22 pm Reply
  35. karma

    "targets to shoot who are shit at eve" this doesnt sound very elite, wouldnt you prefer to fight good pvp'rs who are good at eve?

    November 2, 2012 at 10:31 pm Reply
  36. War Observer

    Didn't want that sov anyway. You vagina

    November 5, 2012 at 8:03 pm Reply
  37. U know who

    LOL most -A- have several Alts and are just fine making ISK on an individual basis ..thank you. What do you think tribal band if for? Period Basis has AWESOME ratting space.

    November 2, 2012 at 5:52 pm Reply
  38. postin toaster

    yeah because you can only make isk in eve if you own sov, rat or run missions.

    November 2, 2012 at 6:55 pm Reply
  39. War Observer

    Given how strict TEST and pets recruitment standard are -A- pilots will not have any problems making ratting/spy/scout alts in HBC at all. Test will provide both ratting space for their alts and targets for thir mains.

    November 4, 2012 at 2:30 pm Reply
  40. Bittervet

    -A- FC,

    An issue with that is you're running Haargoth risk – that your people might decide they like the target more than they like you.

    November 4, 2012 at 1:41 am Reply
  41. Scottacus
    November 4, 2012 at 9:39 pm Reply
  42. Raagun

    epic qoute :)

    November 6, 2012 at 3:19 pm Reply

Leave a Reply