CCP Ytterbium has created a DEV post with details about the destroyer rebalancing that is coming this winter. He stated specifically that new destroyers are also coming but will be featured in another post/bog sometime in the future. You can find the official forum post here.

[Winter] Existing Destroyer Rebalancing

Hello folks,
While CCP Fozzie is having a look at remaining frigates we can start talking about having a look at existing destroyers here. The new destroyers announced in the summer update blog will be discussed in another topic.

This ship class is aimed to be an anti-frigate platform, and should trade resilience, mobility for firepower. The extra role we want for planetary bombardment will come at a later date. Existing destroyers are mostly fine as they are right now, except for the Coercer which has some serious issues, so the changes are pretty minimal so far.

As always, constructive comments are welcome.

Suggested changes are mentioned below:

COERCER:
One medium slot is highly impractical for any kind of solo or even small gang fit and has been changed. Fittings also were quite low and should allow to squeeze medium pulse lasers, even medium beams with the module changes listed below.

• Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
• Slot layout: 8 H, 2 M (+1), 3 L (-1)
• Fittings: 85 PWG (+10), 168 CPU (+8)
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 700 (+12) / 900 (+40) / 800 (+70)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 700 (-3) / 370 s / 1.9
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 255 (+3) / 2.75 (-0.1485) / 4.28 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 525 / 6
• Sensor strength: 10 Radar
• Signature radius: 62

CORMORANT:
Swapped one medium for one low slot, altered fittings to compensate. Capacitor, agility and signature radius were inconsistent with other Caldari ships and have been adjusted.

• Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
• Slot layout: 8 H, 3 M (-1), 2 L (+1)
• Fittings: 68 PWG (+13), 200 CPU (-15)
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 900 (+40) / 700 (+12) / 700 (+23)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 600 (-25) / 320 s (-13) / 1.9
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 250 (+1) / 2.5 (+0.231) / 4.42 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 36km / 475 / 7
• Sensor strength: 12 Gravimetric
• Signature radius: 65 (-3)

CATALYST:
Slot layout untouched. Brought capacitor amount, agility and signature radius in-line with the revamped frigates and other destroyer variants.

• Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
• Slot layout: 8 H, 2 M, 3 L
• Fittings: 60 PWG, 170 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 750 (+5) / 800 (-3) / 900 (+118)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 650 (+64) / 350 s (+37.5) / 1.8
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 265 (-1) / 2.45 (-0.352) / 4.04 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 33km / 500 / 7
• Sensor strength: 11 Magnetometric
• Signature radius: 68 (+3)

THRASHER:
Left untouched apart from some minor adjustments.

• Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
• Slot layout: 8 H, 3 M, 2 L
• Fittings: 70 PWG, 170 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 (-3) / 750 (+5) / 750 (+125)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 550 (+3) / 290 s (-1.6) / 1.9
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 270 (+2) / 2.89 / 4.17 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 27km / 550 / 6
• Sensor strength: 9 Ladar
• Signature radius: 56

MODULES:
The point of module changes is to increase usefulness of weapons we consider as either underpowered or just too difficult to fit right now. This includes medium beam laser, medium pulse lasers and light missiles.

• All medium beam laser variations: -1 PWG and -1 CPU
• All medium pulse laser variations: -1 PWG and -1 CPU
• All light missile variations: explosion radius reduced from 50 to 40, damage increased by 10%

– CCP Ytterbium

Discuss!

61 Comments

  1. ilikeponies

    my vengeance is gonna fucking rock even more now!!

    oh right. dessies…………….errrrrrrrrrrm :S

    August 13, 2012 at 6:34 pm Reply
    1. Gumpin

      someone missed the assault ship buff?

      August 13, 2012 at 8:05 pm Reply
  2. Tw1ggy

    Hey CCP, could you maybe look at other ships to revamp? Like the useless Hyperion, for example?

    August 13, 2012 at 6:41 pm Reply
    1. Mike

      They are doing all the ships, they have to start somewhere, and they started with frigs, then destroyers, then cruisers….. notice a trend there?

      August 13, 2012 at 6:50 pm Reply
      1. M1k3y

        Leaving BLOPs and Marauders, both of which could use a buff, to the end :(

        August 13, 2012 at 6:56 pm Reply
        1. obs

          Noobs go first and the less popular ships have to wait. It is only fair. Experienced players make plenty of isk with every change as it is.

          August 13, 2012 at 7:23 pm Reply
    2. Ravaeli

      They have plans to work on all the ships as stated by them many times. They are starting at the bottom and working their way up through T1 hulls first and creating new ships to fill holes as needed. Once they have sufficiently balanced all the T1 ships, they will then look to the T2 ships starting at the bottom.

      Be patient my friend, be patient.

      August 13, 2012 at 6:50 pm Reply
      1. Anon

        There is no patience anymore…

        August 13, 2012 at 7:58 pm Reply
    3. Yarbear

      The Hype is actually a very good brawler. A buddy of mine flies a dual LAR fit in lowsec and tears the shit out of things flying solo. Tanks like a god damned beast and has decent enough DPS.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:01 pm Reply
  3. M1k3y

    Finally a buff to the two useless dessies.

    Catalyst & thrasher are still incredible though…

    August 13, 2012 at 6:53 pm Reply
    1. coercer ftw

      im guessing you never used a coercer before cus its awsome at sniping frigs atm

      August 14, 2012 at 12:03 am Reply
  4. WTF

    Destroyers are the Super-Capitals in the Frigate World. Death to all Supers!

    August 13, 2012 at 6:58 pm Reply
    1. ...

      What's wrong with you? Frigs need a hard counter and destroyers fill that role. Destroyers in turn are countered by EVERY OTHER ship in the game (except for mining ships and industrials.)

      August 15, 2012 at 9:21 am Reply
      1. Renan Ruivo

        Dense commenter detected.

        August 15, 2012 at 2:40 pm Reply
  5. Yea! improve suicide ships! Make miners suffer even more! Their tears so delicious!

    August 13, 2012 at 7:40 pm Reply
    1. gumpin

      they buffed miners first. Perhaps you missed the skiff with a battleships hit points BEFORE it gets tanked.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:04 pm Reply
      1. SENSEI

        there are still going to be tons of untanked hulks, so suicide ganking hulks will go nowhere, i think you're just overestimating the clueless idiots.

        August 13, 2012 at 11:30 pm Reply
  6. Val_V

    And actual expansion would also be nice for once, rather than just shuffling some numbers.

    August 13, 2012 at 8:07 pm Reply
    1. CCP is best

      Oh eve players, all so fickle.

      Last summer it was "stop with the features and fix the broken things!" and now it's the opposite. Bunch of cry babies I tell ya!

      August 13, 2012 at 8:19 pm Reply
      1. indy

        its just one guy, on drugs no doubt :) keep fixing stuff boys u r doing well(ish)

        August 14, 2012 at 11:19 am Reply
      2. ...

        I'm sure much of the crying was due to overview bugs, that was so freaking annoying.

        me out on a roam: oh there's a target, kill it!
        fc: target is blue, target is blue!
        me: can't… stop… missiles
        target: boom!

        they fixed those issues (at least it was fixed the last time I played) but there's still stuff that needs to be worked on. Fixing useless ships to make them worth while is a great use of time, I approve.

        August 15, 2012 at 8:56 am Reply
    2. BAMbam

      Fixes are waaaay better than badly implemented features and theres still loads to fix

      August 13, 2012 at 8:32 pm Reply
      1. Val_V

        I don't mind fixes and rebalancing is always fun, but ccp has been fixing shit that's not broken lately and then fixing the fixes.

        I still remember the excitement that Apocrypha brought and would love to see another epic expansion like that.

        August 14, 2012 at 3:45 pm Reply
        1. ...

          You'll have to wait for a while. there's a lot of stuff that's still broken.

          August 15, 2012 at 8:52 am Reply
    3. Mr. Meh

      This is one of multiple changes and improvements.

      This is a small part of the rebalancing with the frigs as well as 4 new destroyers being released.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:32 pm Reply
  7. Anonymouse

    Maybe they should balance by size, both t1 and t2 at the same time? t1 and t2 frigates, then t1 and t2 destroyers, then t1, t2, t3 cruisers and so on….

    August 13, 2012 at 8:07 pm Reply
    1. ...

      t3 cruisers will be some of the last ships to be worked on (as reported by devs) because of how complicated they are. Personally, I think they should just be hit hard by the nerf bat in the mean time so people start using other ships.

      August 15, 2012 at 9:17 am Reply
      1. Renan Ruivo

        The devs won't be touching T3 any time soon because they are largely working as intended. They are only overpowered by comparasion, so this is why they will re-work T1 and T2 cruisers first. To bring them in line with the T3 cruisers (jack-of-all-trades, master of none etc.)

        August 15, 2012 at 2:42 pm Reply
  8. BAMbam

    Will this be implimented along with the racial Dessy and BC skills rather than the current universal. I'm still a bit chaffed from when CCP last raped my skill plans…

    August 13, 2012 at 8:35 pm Reply
  9. Mike

    If your in a Catalyst, and you dock with your target you will out damage a thrasher by a lot.

    August 13, 2012 at 9:21 pm Reply
  10. Budge

    Catalyst only had the potential to do twice or more the DPS as a thrasher, granted it didn`t have the best slot layout, but the damage output is stupid high compared to the rest of the destroyers, thrasher included.

    August 13, 2012 at 9:31 pm Reply
    1. Mr. Meh

      EFT damage is not real damage.

      It's optimal is terrible and its falloff matches.

      August 13, 2012 at 9:54 pm Reply
      1. Bagehi

        Catalyst is fantastic for high sec ganking. You can get three shots in usually before Concord gets you.

        August 13, 2012 at 10:11 pm Reply
        1. Mr. Meh

          No arguements. Would like a better role for this ship though.

          August 13, 2012 at 10:56 pm Reply
      2. Budge

        "It's optimal is terrible and its falloff matches. " Like all blaster fit ships, are all blaster fit ships useless?

        Catalyst have been used for years for ganking, but you don't use blaster boats, that much is clear, yet you have a lot to say about them, which is funny. Please continue you show us your ignorance.

        August 13, 2012 at 10:15 pm Reply
        1. Mr. Meh

          Actually you wrong on multiple parts. I am unfortunately heavily vested in Blaster Boats. I have been spending this year and now the next year training into non-gallente because of it.

          No, not all blaster fitted ships are useless. But then again, all the others have the mid slots to atleast make their gank fit work.

          Which then leads me back to the OP comment. "Thrashers and Catalyst are incredible"

          Thrashers are. But the catalyst still nees more mids. The ship shouldn't only be for "Highsec Oops" and "I undocked at the right time, horays."

          I think, the Cat should be on par with the Thrasher. And that means more PG and another Mid.

          Are you caught up, or would you like to show more ignorance?

          August 13, 2012 at 11:01 pm Reply
          1. Budge

            So your a gallente pilot, but haven't got a clue, yeah I think we're all caught up.

            August 13, 2012 at 11:05 pm
          2. Mr. Meh

            Meh.

            We just don't see it the same. But, you may want to go argue your point on the forums though. It seems there's at least a dozen others voicing the same issue with Catalyst. The thing will need more PG with the others getting their boost, especially the Corm. With the Coercer getting 2 mids, the Coercer will be able to out DPS and alpha the Catalyst. Whatever aspect you think the Catalyst has now, will be countered with these changes.

            I, for one want to see the Catalyst evolve outside of Hulk ganking. But if you like the changes, so be it. I will keep flying Thrashers. You keep flying Catalyst.

            August 14, 2012 at 3:18 pm
          3. Jake

            You do realize that if you gave a catalyst another mid it would hands down be the best destroyer in the game, they are trying to balence the ships, not make one ship greater then all the rest.

            August 13, 2012 at 11:11 pm
      3. scrublords

        "EFT damage is not real damage"

        No it is not. However if you know how to fly a blaster boat it can be pretty comparable. Thrasher is just easy mode, working in falloff. But if you actually know what you are doing, you can ruin a thrasher´s day flying a catalyst pretty much all everytime.

        August 13, 2012 at 10:35 pm Reply
        1. Mr. Meh

          Have any Killboard 1 on 1s to show?

          As lowsec FW pilot, dessie scrapping is basically my full time job. I can tell you, that 95% of the time, it would really take a mildly retarded Thrasher to lose to a Catalyst. They have no Webb to hold you down. How did you lose with basically the same DPS, more HP, more agility and more range? How?

          August 13, 2012 at 11:03 pm Reply
      4. Easterner

        This isn't actually true. Most small blaster boats using null will have really good optimal+falloff inside scram range. It's just that a lot of people decide to use awful electrons with antimatter.

        An ion catalyst has 3.9+5.3 without using any range rigs or tracking enhancer. Harpy with neutrons and null has an optimal of something like 7km. Neutron enyo is about 5+5 and so on.

        August 13, 2012 at 11:56 pm Reply
  11. droljica

    ha-ha-ha-ha…

    ccptards CAN'T anything right, at least first two years

    August 13, 2012 at 10:09 pm Reply
    1. [youtube m_mDTLphIVY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_mDTLphIVY youtube]

      August 14, 2012 at 12:47 am Reply
    2. oooeheheh

      English level: Lee Chanka

      August 14, 2012 at 2:49 am Reply
  12. Jesus

    Catalyst is best for ganking what the fuck are you smoking. They have the most dps.

    August 13, 2012 at 10:14 pm Reply
  13. CareBearStares

    Sweeet. Need to dust off my catalyst BPO and tweek my blaster skillz… Gonna be a fun Winter.

    August 13, 2012 at 10:47 pm Reply
  14. lul

    Well done ccp because there isn't a massive need to balance out alot of the tech II cruisers in the game and battleships to actually make them useful for pvp lets just focus on those tech I destroyers and frigates -facepalms-

    August 13, 2012 at 11:33 pm Reply
    1. Posty McPostington

      Well done poster because they haven't already said they are working their way up through the ship classes to give them more defined roles as part of their goal to get rid of the tier system -facepalms-

      August 14, 2012 at 12:02 am Reply
      1. ...

        Not to mention re-balancing low level ships is better to do anyway since more players will have access to them. Some people are very dense, +1 for you sir!

        August 15, 2012 at 9:14 am Reply
  15. Sold

    "All light missile variations: explosion radius reduced from 50 to 40, damage increased by 10%"

    Screw the Cormorant. This makes the Caracal even better. I, too, like an extra 10% dps on my 5x assault missile launchers. Can't wait for the cruiser rebalance.

    August 14, 2012 at 12:45 am Reply
  16. Ashesofempires

    So long as the Eris gets fixed to not be a shitty split damage weapon platform, it's all good.

    August 14, 2012 at 1:25 am Reply
    1. ...

      What does it matter? T2 destroyers shouldn't be used for their damage output, in fact a t1 destroyer 'should' kill 'dictors when in a mythical 1v1. T1's are generalists. T2's are specialists. The fact that 'dictors get bubbles denotes they should lose damage potential.

      That's not to say T2's shouldn't do damage, just that they should do less than the T1 variant.

      August 15, 2012 at 9:10 am Reply
  17. just my 2 cents

    The problem I have with destroyers is they are much slower than frigs, have larger sig, and weak tanks. They are fine at killing a t1 frig but most T2 frigs will smash them and larger ships like cruisers or BC can pop destroyers so much easier than frigs. They either need more slots so you can add more tank (a 3/3 slot layout might work well) or they need more speed and less sig.

    As for the missile changes, I don't like. The explosion radius change is a 20% decrease, with only a 10% dmg increase. This will mean ships like a caracal will do LESS dmg to small targets like frigs. Unfortunately, thats all caracals are actually good against. They are to brick like to out run BC's or tech 2 cruisers and Caracals have such shit dps that they are no match for anything but a frig or dessie. If anything they should increase the explosion radius and give the Caracal another low slot so you can at least put a DCU,BCU and Nano. This change is just another reason to skip anything that uses light missiles and get a drake.

    August 14, 2012 at 1:32 am Reply
    1. Egagserma

      Isn't a smaller explosion radius good against smaller targets?

      August 14, 2012 at 3:13 am Reply
    2. wootsnoot

      they reduced light missile explosion radius which actually is a buff to light missiles and your beloved caracal :)

      August 14, 2012 at 10:54 am Reply
  18. the main problem with dessys is they are too big or too small for what people want them to do. In EvE it is best to fit your ship for anything, if you specialize it too much it will be wiped out quite quickly when you roam around. Dessys are made to be frig killers, but they cannot keep up with them, much less have more tank then them. They cannot take out cruisers because of there low speed and larger sig then a frig. All dessys are good for are there T2 counterparts which drop bubbles and run away, and even then the cruiser variant can do there job a little better.

    Overall dessys are just junk, they fill a "gap" as it were in the progression of power, frigs > dessy > cruiser > BC > BS and then to Capital. They don't do anything better then what a ship of either bigger or smaller size could do.

    August 14, 2012 at 4:00 am Reply
    1. my sugestion instead

      I agree but i think they should consider something that can extend the current Tec2 lines in to Destroyer

      what i want for Destroyers
      1# the normal one as described above
      2# a missil / Drone boat as described earlier in devblogs
      3# specialized ships for covop heavy bomber (greater bomber firepower)
      4# specialized ship for logistic, a logistic Destroyer could work since you got enough highslots for a guardian/basilisk like repping and the small/medium size reppers and cap transfers get some use. this would work as a T1 version and a more specialized T2 version where it can fit a Covop cloak would also be nice.
      5# t2 Destroyer that get extra bonus for tracking making sure thoes nasty interceptors dies fast
      6# and offcourse i would want the Interdictor as it is.

      this way we extend the covop line from
      Stealthbomber –> Recon ship –> Covop Battleship
      to
      Stealthbomber –> heavy bomber –> Recon ship –> CovOp Battleship

      and we extend the line of logistics from
      T1 Cruiser Logi –> T2 Cruiser Logi —> Carrier
      to
      T1 DD logi –> T1 Cruiser Logi –> T2 Crusier logi –> Carrier
      |
      —– > T2 DD Logi

      TLDR version add the following to DD lines

      T1 DD gunboat (Current)
      T1 DD missil/dronboat
      T1 Light logistics ship

      T2 Covop DD
      T2 Light CovOp logistics ship
      T2 Interdictor (Current)

      //Me

      August 14, 2012 at 8:10 am Reply
  19. ref

    i like *trains*

    August 14, 2012 at 7:22 am Reply
  20. uh huh
    August 14, 2012 at 1:34 pm Reply
  21. The Dude

    My dual-web Cormorant backbone!

    August 15, 2012 at 11:14 am Reply

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