EVE University graduate. Drama Llama. Covert operations pilot. Poetic Stanziel has been very active in the blogging community bringing views from seasoned high-sec pilots, we please to share his stories and views on current Eve Online events and invite you to read more stories from his Poetic Discourse blog.

Poetic Stanziel: Faction Warfare – Resuscitating the Amarr

It was malaise. I was under the impression that the Amarr were giving up systems so that their alts could cash in on the T5 warzone control Minmatar achieved on Sunday. (As of yesterday, the Amarr had six systems under their control, out of over 65 systems.)

(tl;dr I propose that Minmatar give up all systems east of Dal, excepting Amamake. Reset faction warfare of our own accord, get back to good fights.)

Not really the case. The Amarr side is simply disinterested, and many are packing up, moving north, where the battle lines are more evenly drawn; where there’s something for both sides to fight over.

So, to those crowing that we can do it without Goon help, perhaps we’re still lingering under the effects of what they did. If the Amarr are so disinterested that they aren’t fighting back, then what sort of victory are we crowing over? Not too mention that the Minmatar have always had a numerical advantage over the Amarr, the Goon exploits only made a crappy situation for the Amarr worse.

(Of course, the Amarr now have Fweddit, an organization that is 600 strong. But then Fweddit aren’t really keen on faction warfare mechanics, so they don’t bother with things like plexing, offensive or defensive. But then, why would they bother when Amarr are perpetually stuck at T1 warzone control, there’s no motivation to do the grindy work. Fweddit won’t stick around if the situation continues to deteriorate. Do we want to see them head to the Caldari? Few Minmatar I’ve talked too aren’t happy that Fweddit took up the Amarr cause. They breathed essential life into a battle that had been on the wane.)

The more people the Amarr bleed, the better it is for the Minmatar with respect to LP earned, but CCP isn’t going to let that money train last forever, which then damages everybody in faction warfare, because anything CCP changes to rectify the situation isn’t only going to affect Minmatar.

Hell, without Amarr, good fights aren’t going to happen. And faction warfare is about the good fights at its core. Sitting around, only doing missions for LP, with nobody to fight . . . might as well be highsec carebears.

The way it sits now, the Amarr need systems. They can grab a system here and there, but considering they have so few, it’s easy enough for the Minmatar to grab them back, they only have a couple systems to focus on reclaiming.

With the lack in interest developing on the Amarr side, there’s no way that the few that are interested in claiming systems, going after warzone control, can make any headway. Eventually, they too will be driven elsewhere.

Take a look at the following faction warfare map, I’m going to use east/west based on how it’s drawn:

I propose pulling all Minmatar assets back to Dal. Give the Amarr one (maybe two) weeks to retake all systems east of Dal (except Amamake). There can still be good fights throughout the week, simply no plexing in the systems we’re giving up. We don’t snark and snipe at them either “Oh, it took us being charitable to get you back on your feet blah blah blah.” Fuck that. This is as much for our good as it is there’s. CCP is to blame for the situation we’re in, for not resetting faction warfare when they implemented the new system. The Goons are as much to blame for causing much of the Amarrian malaise. We’re to blame for rubbing all of this, which was out of Amarr control, in their face for the last couple months. Which all leads to where we are now: a dude wants to do better by himself, get out of the rut he’s in, but can’t quite get the leg up he needs, not without a little help from friends.

After battle continues, if the Amarr then lose all their systems again, well, tough. But I’m willing to bet with some systems under their belts, the occasional shot at T4 control, that the Amarr side will be revitalized, and southern faction warfare will be as most of us imagined it to be.

All it would take to make this happen would be the cooperation of a few of the larger Minmatar FW alliances: Iron Oxide, Late Night Alliance, Defiant Legacy, and a few others. Get the word out, and get people in line, on pain of getting blowed up real good.

Poetic Stanziel

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  1. CareBearStares

    Interesting… Sounds like a plan – if it can be pulled off. Especially since CCP resetting FW at this point would cause further trauma.
    I'm all for anything that would burry the 'Goon LP Exploit' for good and put all all achievement and effort back on the shoulders of those actually participating in FW. At the very least remove the theory of Goon LP Printing Unfairly Propping Up the Minmatar Faction to rest – something that is desperately needed.

    July 11, 2012 at 3:59 pm Reply
    1. Horak Thor

      Goons didn't Plex they just upgraded systems.
      We'd captured all but 9 amarr systems by the fw change dt.
      They didn't effect who held what just lp store prices which we already had a plan in place to farm lp then cash in every few weeks. As you've seen from the recent tier5 push.
      Yes they put lp into upgrading systems we assumed it was all the Russian isk farmers who came in after patch, but by keeping it constantly at t4 they wasted tonnes of lp.

      The fact we are winning is solely because WE are winning, do not mistake that fact.

      July 11, 2012 at 4:54 pm Reply
      1. CareBearStares

        Definitely. I had to edit my post couse it wasn't clear that I'm not convinced that the Goon Upgrades had any discernable effect on the conflict.
        I'm just ready for those in the Amarr who are agnsty to stop blaming losses on the Goons, and for the Minmatar pilots to stop having to defend themselves against something they had no say nor control over.

        Ready for the blame storm to die and people to take credit for there efforts, and insomuch as that's my wish – Kudo's to you Thor I'd rather say you guys are beating our ass than hide behind theory.

        July 11, 2012 at 5:07 pm Reply
        1. Jim

          Why wouldn't it have a big effect? An LP buffer is applied whenever you upgrade a system fully.

          July 11, 2012 at 5:14 pm Reply
          1. CareBearStares

            It may have, the truth of that is beyond my payscale and knowlege. I just feel that things would have tended toward evening out by now.

            July 11, 2012 at 5:27 pm
  2. Grow_Up

    The fighting over the past few weeks has put the lie to the Goons "big reveal" about how they were propping up the WZ. Amarr just isn't any good at all. But wait…your proposal is that Minmatar should subsidize their inability to fight by just abandoning systems? Why? So they can get "good fights"? And do some offensive plexing? In the meantime, abandon Level 5 upgrade, and control of entire systems that they can get rich from? Even if you aren't getting LP from offensive plexing, you can get it from doing agent work, which, at T5 upgrade, means you can get pretty rich even doing level 3 missions. (Basic math sees you getting a shiny new Firetail every 15 minutes, with a bit left over to boot, just from doing level 3s with a T5 cost reduction.)

    This is not a compelling argument you're presenting. Try again. How about this: Amarr FW grows a pair and leaves their cosy nest in Kamela for more than a half-hour roam. You can practically march into Sosala — next door to Kamela — and speed tank a Major plex in a frigate, virtually unhindered. That is just terrible.

    And I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but…it's not Fweddit's fault. Fweddit is generally crappy as opponents, but they at least try, and are up for a fight. You barely see anybody besides them out in the WZ anymore.

    Also: there's a case to be made for RPing here. Many of the Minmatar FW groups are RP, and they seem to have a great time "defending the Republic." Even Fweddit got in on the RP action in their own ridiculous way by forming an alliance called "I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth." I think if a few more RP alliances in Amarr got their shit together, there could be some fun story development about taking back their empire or something. Right now, all I see is Fweddit's lol-gangs and a few scared Wolfsbrigade Kamela-campers.

    July 11, 2012 at 4:06 pm Reply
    1. euasked

      If you werent so busy carebearing youd see regular amarr fleets out handing your kitchensink failfit blobs their asses on a daily basis. When amarr gets organized, minmatar do what they do best, run. Additionally, they benefit from the tier v on their alts just as much as you do while you invest all the LP for the upgrades. Minmatar fleet hulls are superior in the sub battleship classes and there is no reason to spend months grinding for worthless amarr LP when they can just farm tier v on day old alts…this is why you are winning the sov war and failing in fleet warfare.
      tl-dr: you are an idiot.

      July 11, 2012 at 5:40 pm Reply
      1. Grow_Up

        So what you're saying is that Minmatar is really losing.

        I… I see. Well. That is a unique view of reality. Apparently, that control map is wrong — or, no, sorry, it's correct, because the Amarr are LETTING Minmatar win. Wow. Mind: blown.

        I value your opinion, sir — it is of great interest to me.

        July 11, 2012 at 5:44 pm Reply
        1. Amarr Victor

          Oh ye of fairly shortsightedness. All we have to do is hold Kamela and get filthy rich off your LP. Try to take Kamela from us, bro, and continue to lose BC fleets to our cruiser fleets.

          July 11, 2012 at 7:08 pm Reply
          1. Grow_Up

            I have never won a fight in Kamela…because the Kourm gate is camped 24/7, and you'll get autoblobbed. Seeing as how I like small gang warfare, well, it's not exactly a setup for my success.

            But I think it's great that you guys have that one system.

            That *one* system.

            July 11, 2012 at 7:48 pm
        2. minmatards

          If by winning you mean having the most farming alts and russians running around sure. If you mean winning pvp……well no. Keep controlling the systems, we will keep winning the fights.

          July 11, 2012 at 11:27 pm Reply
        3. Bob

          The minmattar dont want to fight, if serious opposition forms they either just run and take the alts out plexing or die in a fire. Conversely the Amarr dont want to pve against stabbed atrons and the result is the situation we find ourselves in at the moment

          July 15, 2012 at 3:04 am Reply
  3. Ken

    But if you guys abandon systems how am I supposed to make as much money with my alts?

    July 11, 2012 at 4:28 pm Reply
    1. Ken

      Keep up the good work Minmatar, I'm making tons of isk.

      July 11, 2012 at 4:28 pm Reply
  4. Horak Thor

    Why the hell would we do that?
    I've spent hours and I mean hundreds of hours. Plexing to capture systems.
    Others have spent way longer.
    If anyone made a concerted effort to do this alot of people would sack fw altogether, and with good reason.

    The whole point of the change was to give us something to fight for. Are you telling me that everytime we reach or nearly reach our objectives we should reset it all willingly ? Then what the hell was the point in fw in the first place.

    No. This will never happen. Please never consider it again.

    July 11, 2012 at 4:35 pm Reply
    1. buggrit

      This. If you reset after you win, victory has no meaning.

      July 11, 2012 at 7:40 pm Reply
      1. Grunt

        Guess you've never played any Adventure, RTS, FPS, RPG, CMS's, or anything like Tower Defense, DOTA, Guitar Hero, or pretty much any videogame ever, have you?

        July 11, 2012 at 10:03 pm Reply
        1. InternetIdiots

          Ooh, lets debate the "meaning" of "victory" in a video game…idiot.

          July 12, 2012 at 12:26 am Reply
    2. Grow Up

      Thank you.

      July 11, 2012 at 7:55 pm Reply
    3. leavin amarr

      haha thats true… Im seein u around all the time… lol

      July 11, 2012 at 9:44 pm Reply
    4. Jim

      They reset the other warzone a few years ago after Caldari domination. I'd look forward for your medal you zerged for.

      July 12, 2012 at 1:30 pm Reply
  5. minnies suck

    Amarr has won every major fight in the US TZ for awhile now. Hows that Archon Baha? Still dead? The Amarr got a influx of pvpers. The minmatar got a massive influx of isk farmers. Its pve that controlls the war zone not pvp. No matter how well the Amarr do in pvp there is always 1000 farmers plexing systems iin stabbed ab frigs. There is no comming back in terms of WZ control against a broken ass system like this.

    Thats ok Amarr will just keep winning the fights. Minmatar enjoy your system control.

    July 11, 2012 at 5:48 pm Reply
    1. Grow_Up

      If it makes you feel better to believe that — go for it. At the end of the day, you still chose to PvP in Empire space with a specialized control mechanic. You seem to express surprise and frustration about the FW control…but this is WAI. If you want completely open PvP, you do know there's a place for that, right?

      Though to address your point, I don't see much evidence (outside of Kamela that is) that Empire is winning the PvP war. From all the KBs that I visit, the opposite seems to be true. And that is backed up by, I dunno, who controls the systems. Whine all you want about ISK farmers, if you're not prepared to defend your territory (which is only possible in PvP), then you're still gonna lose.

      July 11, 2012 at 7:53 pm Reply
      1. get a life

        Haha are you for real? Systems are controlled by pve plexing. Most pvp pilots dont like chasing a frig out of a major plex. Its just not worth the time. Minmatar have almost 2000 more pilots than amarr and most of those are plexing alts.

        July 11, 2012 at 11:14 pm Reply
      2. InternetIdiots

        "if you're not prepared to defend your territory (which is only possible in PvP)"

        Herpderpderp…what game are you playing? It certainly isnt FW in eve…

        July 12, 2012 at 12:27 am Reply
  6. buggrit

    Screw the gudfights! With incursions fucked, my alt needs cash. Hope all the amarr systems get taken out and there's only idiot pirates to worry about.

    July 11, 2012 at 7:39 pm Reply
  7. itsjustme

    As usual, ccp "fixed" the game…. again.

    And as usual, players are paying the price for their "fix".

    July 12, 2012 at 8:37 am Reply
  8. droljica

    Judging by history, ccpnerds will simply reset FW, and say "ok guys, someone screw'd FW, now u can start all over again…:"

    July 12, 2012 at 8:43 am Reply
  9. staafsak

    It's time to ring CVA?

    July 12, 2012 at 5:00 pm Reply

    you FWAR roleplaying carebears just wait 10 days and see what hits you.

    we'll talk about prowess of minmatar militia then, we will.

    July 13, 2012 at 9:24 am Reply
  11. kingbundcanzard


    August 3, 2012 at 7:59 am Reply
  12. usexermem


    August 3, 2012 at 7:37 pm Reply
  13. masdisktelland


    August 20, 2012 at 6:40 pm Reply
  14. Caldari FW

    Of course the Amarr/Minmatar geography is fairly bad in this regard (= one long tube from Hof onwards) but then again it would probably also mean that any such group operating would have easier time. Though Electus Matari probably bases nearby.

    Another option is high-sec near Hek where one could shut down their mission agent (0.5 system only) and control traffic near Hek to cause some trouble to Matars.

    July 12, 2012 at 8:21 am Reply

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