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Kirith Kodachi: What Makes A War In Eve “Great”?

What Makes A War In Eve “Great”?

The reason I ask this is because some people have been referring to the latest conflagration in Delve as the next “Great War” but I find myself rather cool on that idea. Yes, there is a hell of a lot of people involved, perhaps more than any of the previous great wars of Eve, but the motivations and grandness of the storylines seem flat to me. “We went down to delve for gud fites, they brought more people, so we brought EVERYBODY” doesn’t evoke a lot of emotion. It doesn’t help, of course, that the Southern Coalition have been getting curbstomped on the numbers and sov fronts.

For me, the last truly Great War was the Northern Coalition versus Drone Russian Federation…

*WARNING – The following is based on memory and recollections and opinions and not absolute fact! I’m too lazy to do a lot of research right now.*

In the fall of 2010 two of the largest (if not the largest) power blocs went war. The Northern Coalition (NC for short, consisting of Morsus Mihi, Razor, Rage, Majesta Empire, and others) launched a strike against the Drone Russian Federation (DRF, aka the Legion of Red Noise consisting of Legion of xXDeathXx, Red Alliance, White Noise, and others) by taking LXQ2-T in Etherium Reach in the largest battle in a single system ever (2500 pilots in local). NC leadership claimed the DRF was planning an invasion of the NC regions so it was called a pre-emptive strike but whether that’s true or not is beside the point. I’m confident war between these two titans was inevitable anyways.

The NC had the advantage of pure numbers, able to field large capital fleets and support fleets to dominate the North American time zones. The DRF did not have the massive numbers but had the dedication and financial resources (Shadow of xXDeathXx was the largest renting alliance at the time) to compete, and dominated the Russian and most of the European time zones.Once they re-secured Etherium Reach, they turned a NC ally alliance direction to flip a number of systems and stations in the old war ground of Geminate Region.

The war waged back and forth for control of strategic systems in Geminate with neither side able to gain the upper-hand for long… but then the DRF made a winning move. They hired Pandemic Legion to assist in their war and suddenly the balance shifted. As I wrote in April 2011:

Pandemic Legion alone is causing untold mountains of grief in US
timezone ops with their considerable supercap assets and willingness to
commit them to battle, not to mention the Tengu/Scimitar fleets of doom. […] There is a definite uneasiness in the rank and file that perhaps the
fuel of the war machine was spent in Geminate in the winter and now
there is not enough to withstand the renewed onslaught.

With PL dominating the less skilled NC fleets in the NS timezones and
the NC becoming paralyzed with fear for deploying their super capital
assets in any timezone, the NC began to fall back and never recovered. (Side Note: This period was when full Tech III Tengu fleets started to become reality and they were nearly impossible to counter with the existing fleet doctrines of the time.)

By June the NC existed only in the history books:

So how did we go from fighting tooth and nail for O2O-2X
in Geminate in February to writing obituaries in the beginning of June?
One simple truth, my friends, and I’m going to say it loud and clear:

There is no counter to a super cap fleet except a BIGGER super cap fleet.1

The NC was out blobbed on the field, pure and simple. Not by sheer
bodies but by number of super cap pilots in the warzone. As soon as
Pandemic Legion entered the conflict with their supers in the North
American timezone, and the willingness to use them, all subcap and
sub-supercap ops were vulnerable to a hot drop and the NC became
terrified to use their own supercaps in retaliation due to spies and
fear of getting whelped.

Without the NC super fleet, which became effectively stood down from
that point forward, the long slow failure cascade began. Unable to
easily destroy or reinforce SBUs, enemy deployment towers, stations,
TCUs, IHUBs, etc, and with the enemy able to do so, the advance was
simply a matter of time. And with each station taken a few more players
were knocked out of the fight, a few more decided to say “screw this”
and moved back to empire to regroup.

By the time Goonswarm and TEST weighed in on the NC side to defend
Tribute, the psychological and emotional state of NC leadership appears
to have been broken beyond repair. Analysis paralysis, fears of spies
everywhere, blue ball frustrations when FCs decide to not jump in,
failure to adequately lead pilots into battle safely, etc it was all
very morale breaking.

Blob wars often go like that: the out-blobbed only seems to shrink
making their chances or winning smaller. Its a little ironic that the
NC, which was often pulled out as the poster boy of blobbing and why its
bad, was killed by a blob of a different sort.

Note: This was before the Super Carrier nerf and changes to logout mechanics.

* * * * *

So back to the current war in Delve. This time the side with the numbers (the CFC, natch) also has Pandemic Legion on board making it even more difficult to resist the waves of fleets coming at the Southern Coalition.. Whereas the NC-DRF war took two entire seasons to play out, this war appears to be already over with The Mittani speculating on whether or not invading Catch is worth it.

This is not a “Great War”, its a sov curb-stomping.

– Kirith Kodachi

Send us Intel/Corrections

44 Comments

  1. Eirene

    Old story….

    War?
    Ev0ke + ND-Dot vs. Solar Fleet is a real war.
    Hardened veterans on both sites.

    Look at the killboards for Geminate the last week.

    July 11, 2012 at 2:13 pm Reply
    1. Super

      Thats damn right. Its a bittervet against bittervet slugfest…

      July 11, 2012 at 6:12 pm Reply
  2. CFC Wannabe

    Very well written sir. I was on a different side for that than I am for this war although it does make me laugh at how PL claims to be "Elite PVP" and yet they are always on the side with the highest odds of no matter how much disdain for all parties there seems to be. You throw onto the pile that you now have PL cyno thrashers paving the way for a hot drop in defense for yet another 300+ man rafter fleet is completely laughable. Thanks for providing us all that "Elite PVP" since you coined the term for yourselves PL.

    July 11, 2012 at 2:15 pm Reply
  3. The NC could have and should have won that conflict. Unfortunately – if memory serves me correctly – the leadership didn't care much for giving the troops a break after the Geminate war and wanted to launch straight into it. I think the success of Geminate went straight to their heads… this coincided with a loss of most of our major FC's, leaving us with just Rat Salat at one point I think.

    If the NC leadership had actually thrown their full might into that, it shouldn't have been a problem. Instead it ended up as a textbook withdrawal as RAGE were thrown to the lions without so much as a chair to push back with. They didn't even try to help us out, they looked only to themselves.

    Fortune favours the bold. By not even looking at their super fleet(you never know, we might have actually pulled something off with it) and caring only about getting out of Fortress Tribute intact, our fates were sealed.
    Good times, while they lasted.

    July 11, 2012 at 2:41 pm Reply
    1. Bagehi

      FC blunders (like having giant fleets with supers jump into giant fleets with supers, having already experienced the black screens of death) were the death of the NC. Most super cap pilots stopped joining fleets, knowing the FCs had such a reckless disregard for their ships (especially after some alliances failed to reimburse super losses).

      No coalition can operate long without supers, and the NC did a really good job of alienating their super pilots. Null has been a game of supercaps for several years now. I hate it, but that's the way Eve has become.

      July 11, 2012 at 7:03 pm Reply
  4. Space troll

    Your moms. fire crouch makes eh war worth wild

    July 11, 2012 at 3:10 pm Reply
  5. DRF was fun

    There is another huge difference!!

    This time NOONE hired PL!!!

    Shadoo FCs goon fleets and became a pet far far away from former glory and elite status…

    Delve "war" is just a very sad story for eve itself and I would rather love to be involved in Geminate fights.

    Tech nerf or tech rebalance is needed to solve this biiig problem!!

    CCP MUST know that they pay Shittani a fucking big real income…tons of US Dollars…and that is just wrong! Spread tech all over eve to lower the parties involved for each tech moon!!!!!!!

    July 11, 2012 at 3:13 pm Reply
    1. MASTER MIND

      Man. Geminate is THE BOMB right now. I've never had this much fun in Eve before.

      July 11, 2012 at 6:10 pm Reply
  6. Hench

    Just because soco completely failed to live up to their chestbeating doesn't make it our fault.

    July 11, 2012 at 3:50 pm Reply
  7. Southern Belle

    The main difference this time? Everyone expected PL to curbstomp Nulli & allies, but when this in fact didn't happen, PL had to call Test for assistance. PL will bleat on about how Nulli escalated by getting RA to help defend the CSAA in L5D, but the truth is that by this time, PL was already receiving help.

    -A- won't commit caps, so S2N and their more honourable allies daren't deploy their much smaller number. If -A- would grow some balls, this would be a lot more fun for everyone, but for now, we'll just sit in 319, while the biggest SC blob in history rampages around Querious unopposed.

    July 11, 2012 at 3:57 pm Reply
    1. Rob

      Soco deploying supers versus CFC is beyond stupid, we can replace anyone they destory, and they can't, it's that simple…. Why in gods name would you risk your non-replaceable ship, to try and kill titan/motherships that we can replace at least the isk instently. And thats where the problem lies, the game is fucked in my honest opinion, atleast null sec is, there is no question this would have been a great war if CCP was smart enough to see the king of the hill format simply doesn't work, the players have been saying it for years, and yet here we are, with litterly a two blob war, yet the dispairity between the two entity is to great that there is no great war to be had, not great mothership battles…. Nothing really beside grinding structures.

      TL;DR version….. CCP are fucking stupid, and don't know what the playerbase wants.

      July 11, 2012 at 4:45 pm Reply
      1. hirrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

        having alot of isk is only useful if it can be turned into material goods. Say what you want, but if CFC whelped 20 titans and 40MS in a battle, they could get in some amount of trouble. (im aware that no battle in eve history has seen that number of scaps losses, but there are more supers in the game now than ever before ect ect). Why would it be very bad for them? well, shadoo actually said it, Scaps have a time component, Supercarrier at best built in 25 days (best ive personally managed) though it is often closer to 28. Titans? 2 months, at best. Thats a long dam time, IF SOCO managed to drop the shit out of a supercap fleet and wipe it off the field, that would spell extreme advantage for the coalition for 1-2 months. I wont even go into the moral victory. As soon as CFC pilots realized that there were not enough scaps on market to rebuy there ships they might be less willing to get in super fleets, and the average grunt would be in shock and awe over the loss.

        Now, i give you we are talking about a very special set of circumstances for such an event to happen, but could SOCO do it, without a doubt yes, could that same battle go massivly south and soco whelpsa suepr fleet, YES, could both sides fleets kill each other off? also YES. (SOCO wins the super battle but CFC subcap masses kill the gankers).

        Who keeps saying there is no supercap replacement in the south? I think you guys need to take your pills, i can think of several alliances that do SCAP replacement in the south, (doesnt mean they could do it forever). Also, all it would takeis one large SCAP loss on either side to wipe out BOTH sides SRP wallets. 1 tril in dead supers has a funny way of doing that.

        King of the hil works btw, just the small problem of completely fucked moon resources aka tech, im suprised CCP didnt anticipate a diplomatic solution to make the tech flow lol.

        Every super coalition folds, jsut watch

        July 11, 2012 at 6:06 pm Reply
        1. Shogun

          lol, did you just imply that CFC could lose 20 titans, w/o killing any Soco titan/motherships? no question if there was a nice mothership battle both side would likely lose some, the difference is CFC makes trillions per month, and SoCo doesn't, like the other dude said, SoCo deploying supers versus CFC is beyond stupid.

          July 11, 2012 at 6:22 pm Reply
          1. hirrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

            I ment to imply that presumbly if soco did the dropping itlosses would at least theoretically be substantially less (superior fleet numbers in that particular engagement w/e). I wont run throuhg the possible battle outcomes.

            You seriously dont understand how much isk rental makes do you? Tenerifis and immensea rental is 5-600bil isk easy. Solars rental empire? i wont even start. Rols? again dont get me started.

            But yet again like i previously said, the isk isnt the problem the ships physical construction time is. Great a super pilot has been given 25 bil. THAT 25 bil doesnt = super. It only = suepr if there is one available on market, and sometimes there just isnt.

            July 11, 2012 at 6:30 pm
          2. Bagehi

            And CFC has held their space safely for long enough that super cap production has fully ramped up. People joke about Test not having supers. Our biggest problem of late is finding characters that can properly fly the ones coming out of construction.

            July 11, 2012 at 6:52 pm
          3. CFC Dude

            And -A- has plenty of safe places to put up CSSA's atm, right? and CFC space is very unsafe atm… right? The other dude nailed it when they said the dispairity between the north, and the south is fucking stupid, if you don't see that, then fine…… I, and 90% of nullsec pop. disagree you. There is no great war in delve, there was no chance of a great war with the way resources are distrbuted in nullsec, and the way the resources are distributed in null is the way CCP thinks would create conflict, which has historically not been true, the fact that NCdot/Evoke, and PL are now our pets shows just how little conflict the king of the hill formate creates.

            Is null sec wars fucking stupid atm? Yes, it's absolutely retarded, we do nothing but win, but is it fun? nope it's awful, I don't even want to fleet up.

            July 11, 2012 at 6:55 pm
          4. blahhhh

            Then don't. Apparently we don't need you.

            July 12, 2012 at 7:56 pm
      2. TESTical

        I agree 100%, to some dude that just started a few months back, that wants to getting into nullsec, he has many options as far as joining corps already in null, but in reality all those corps are apart of two blobs, the north, and the south pretty much, Now if you join the south you will likly be outnumbered all the time, be poor, and spend a large portion of your time doing awful PvE content to buy ships, to join fleets. Or you can join the north, where you always outnumber your oppnent, and never have to worry about isk well thats not really a choice is it?. Eve is a game and by and large people want to have fun playing it, it may not be a structured pvp game like league of legends, or guildwars2, but it is a PvP game, and PvP isn't fun when it's not competitive, now with the north and south divded, and the huge dispairity between the north, and the south as is, we can see it's not competive at all, can blaim -A- for being shit at the game but we all know thats not the real reason.

        July 12, 2012 at 1:07 am Reply
        1. Jakes

          Yeah…. CCP are pretty fucking stupid when it comes to game balence, if you have a rich group, and a poor group, the rich will always work together to stay rich, it happens all the time in the real world, it's human nature. Why CCP thought humans playing a game would act any different is kinda ridiculous, and the fact that they created this inbalence on purpose is truely mindboggling. I live in NPC null, and have for years now, I vowed to never take part in blob warfare, or structure shooting again, thinking one day maybe I would return to nullsec when CCP made nullsec a viable option as far as having fun….. lol….. now there was some changes to sov. mechanics, but it's pretty much the same, now you shoot tons of ihubs, and stations, instead of 100's of POS's, thats no inprovment. And blob warfare is worse now then it's ever been before, add ontop of all that the dispairity between the only two entites makes nullsec the dumbest place to spend your time in since 2008.

          July 12, 2012 at 1:52 am Reply
          1. blahhhh

            Hmmm. So your hypothesis states that if all of EVE nullsec were equal in desirable assets, players would…….what?
            If you made the map equal in tech, rats, mins, nullsec would simply become the new carebear land. Nobody would fight over prime space because there would be not prime space.
            You act like goons have always owned the space they are in. But the truth is, they haven't even been there that long. Yet they have always had a large following.
            Do you think that CCP ordered all of the goon players to join so that they would outnumber you and take all of the best stuff?
            They took all of the best space because they outnumber you, and they outnumber you because your alliance sucks. That is logical thinking.
            Next time, follow the empirical evidence rather than trying to imagine a whimsical excuse for why things are as they are.

            July 13, 2012 at 3:15 pm
      3. Your New Fat Fanboy

        At some point does CCP need to let go and leave it in the hands of the players to decide what they want to do with the sandbox. Do not expect of CCP to make your wars great. It is only you who is dumb, who blobs a much smaller group by outnumbering them and still expects to get a great war out of it. You have grown too large and now do not know what to do but to go into every war. Why did you have to come in great numbers to Delve? So that you now can whine about a lack of fights and ask for CCP to fix your game? You are just a fat, dumb kid that did not know when to stop eating, to know when it is enough. You won the war, but you are just about to learn a new lesson. And the more of you learn it the sooner you will collapse.

        July 12, 2012 at 5:25 pm Reply
      4. blahhhh

        Where do they grow you stupid faggots? The point of EVE is cooperative play.
        If another group outnumbers you, what is CCP supposed to do? Program the game to only let so many of them undock at one time? Limit the number of people that can be in a fucking solar system? Change the rules so that losing all of your shit and being kicked out of your space is considered winning?
        Don't like loosing? Form an alliance that people actually want to be a part of. Stop making your membership ashamed to be associated with you.
        How about, stopping all of the dumb ass "L33T PVP" shit and reminding your players it's all about blowing shit up, loosing ships, and having a good time! Watch your sov map, but for Christ's sake fuck off with your manipulated killboard stats!
        A goon craves not these things.
        If you find yourself poor and destitute, it is wise to observe and emulate the rich man.

        July 12, 2012 at 7:52 pm Reply
  8. NullSecNoob

    I was there on the NC side and flew in many sub-cap fleets. We had the numbers all the time but no effective FC to lead them I will give PL their due because that initial Tengu fleet was fracking scary good, but they are not invincible. What the CFC now has is something the old NC never did LEADERSHIP. Hate Mittani or Love him he is a very effective leader and they have a very competent team. Their logistics team is SECOND TO NONE IMHO.

    July 11, 2012 at 4:07 pm Reply
    1. its true

      logistics wins wars!

      July 11, 2012 at 10:51 pm Reply
  9. TESTical

    Better then a blob about bumbing a titan.

    July 11, 2012 at 4:30 pm Reply
  10. Great Comment

    What defines a great war is the greatness that comes with it. When good fights evil and when there is a large number of players involved then a war becomes great.

    July 11, 2012 at 5:21 pm Reply
  11. Observer

    PL was starting to lose the Delve theater. This was when goodfites were already claimed over and they were dropping dreads/supers into fights, already attacked the CSAA weeks prior, and were actively trying to take SOV. Being blue with the CFC wasn't even a rumor status during this time – it was known by everyone that they would be blue with the CFC.

    When Raiden. joined the conflict, the CFC suddenly (officially) said they were going to come now. Yeah sure, like they didn't already plan to. The disparity between supercap replacement ability and numbers (PL) was increased even more when CFC entered Delve.

    The Delve war is not great by any parameter. What you see is PL trying to save face because their campaign, that started with prospect of good fights and leaving supers at home, turned into the exact opposite, and they could not leave Delve with a bad taste of achieving nothing. "Bro-pact" my ass.

    CFC is here because they NAPped so many regions around them and are NIPped with the only other targets they have in the north. They came to Delve because they got jack shit else to do and it's funny how much they chest-beat about taking SOV when teamed up with the other top supercap user in the game.

    July 11, 2012 at 5:37 pm Reply
  12. Great War

    The last "Great" war I can remember was our little lowsec alliance fighting another little lowsec alliance over a PoCo in Amarr lowsec.

    It was a 30v30 fight with a few triage carriers on field. No supers, no tracking titans, no TiDi, no pile of alpha maelstroms sequentially blapping one ship at a time, and people had to be more involved than just being F1 monkeys.

    All the logi had to be on top of their game, having a falcon show up on field was a big deal. And when we finally blew up their triage carriers it was a real loss because they didn't have tech moon money to replace it immediately.

    For us the battle actually meant something, our enemies felt the loss, everyone fighting in the battle was important and contributed to the fight, And when we won we got a resource that benefited everyone in the alliance.

    July 11, 2012 at 7:22 pm Reply
    1. someguy

      And no one except for you cared a true great war makes it to the real press like hargoth resetting bob made it to the new york times and the BBC.

      July 11, 2012 at 9:47 pm Reply
  13. -A- FC

    You appear to have forgotton about the final DRF war that went on for nearly a year. -A- and others massively out numbered by DRF subcaps and supers eventually won by grinding the crap out them. Eventually the strain showed so much that members of the DRF started falling out and fighting each other. Then PL came in at the end to help RA when DRF had already lost.

    July 11, 2012 at 7:36 pm Reply
    1. Gerard

      haha nope.

      July 11, 2012 at 8:12 pm Reply
  14. Qwerty4812

    "CCP is stupid"

    kk whats your solution to blob warfare… outlaw alliances larger than 5000 members? what could you possibly think of, changing the battlefield rules as soon as someone gains an advantage?

    "Oh CFC took a bunch of tech, NERF IT"

    It sucks, but changing things would only break the core ideal that it's player based

    July 11, 2012 at 9:35 pm Reply
    1. Kicker

      I think solution is what I said in another topic. CFC has tech, ok, let them have it, but do in other regions something ISK making like tech. Some local "incursions" etc. In another place special asteroids etc. There are ways, even if tech will be still the best and those things wouldn't be so cool, it would make EvE space more interesting world. And no, I'm not sayin it only cause I'm member of SoCo, I know they don't care about Delve. Why? Because there is nothing like tech. If there would be, SoCo would defend it the hard way. There needs to be a reason, why to defend something, not just "its our sov", who cares about sov if it doesn't give you any big bonus. Some do, SoCo not.

      July 11, 2012 at 9:54 pm Reply
      1. Qwerty4812

        I agree with the fact that sov holding has no purpose. I was personally hoping even as a part of cfc that DUST514 would reshape PI and make it the main money earner in EVE. sov = planets and alliances that own sov could input harvesting and manufacturing bonuses. I just don't like people complaining about blob warfare, cause there is nothing that can prevent a blob.

        July 11, 2012 at 9:57 pm Reply
        1. Kicker

          Thats a cool idea. with PI. I like it a lot. And I completely agree with blob warfare, its just there, they can do it cause of ISKs, everyone would do it in CFC place. CCP should not think how to "nerf" or change tech, but how to improve other parts of space so ppl have similar conditions while blob warfare, something is always better and something worse, but thing is, there is tech and than nothing like that 😀

          July 11, 2012 at 10:11 pm Reply
        2. Simon

          There are actually many ways to discourage huge napfest like goons+pets, remove the king of the hill prize b/c clearly it isn't doing what it's suppose to do, make it so blues can't use friendly JB's, or blue/fleet titan bridges making the huge NAPs slow boat around to defend thier friends, like everyone else not in huge NAP's, how about a standing fee for blue standing….. Nice isk sink at the same time.

          Whats funny is when you hear CFC dudes say, "oh yeah we hate that the game like this, but there is nothing that can be done, so lets just go with what we have even though it's awful.

          July 11, 2012 at 10:34 pm Reply
          1. meh

            i don't see how that's going to change much. The CFC is organized enough to actually gain an advantage over other less structured groups if those changes are made to the blues system.

            July 11, 2012 at 10:48 pm
          2. Simon

            Instead of you just telling me outright that it wouldn't effect the CFC, how about you actually explain why a coalition fleet of like what 15 alliance? wouldn't be effected by not being able to use a friendly titan bridge….. or how the removal or redistradution of the tech bottleneck wouldn't effect anything.

            We all know if it were up to anyone in that napfest the status quo would stay the same, so some CFC dude saying "oh yeah that won't do anything, lets just keep everything the same" is a joke really.

            July 12, 2012 at 12:36 am
          3. Tallian

            Do you think we are bridging to the warzone and back everyday or something?

            I have only ever seen JBs used in a military sense while on defense. Mass deployments are usually moved out there by JF/carrier convoys, and during the deployment we live there. For home defense, we keep Jump Clones back home, and if we need to we just clone jump back, and do the do.

            July 14, 2012 at 12:45 pm
  15. I lost count

    People just get upset they cant beat them the way they want…..war is hell…….it will not go the way you want all the time because they enemy is changing his ways everyday to win the next fight. China does not get crap told to it…..not because it has mountains around it, not because its a technologically superior country…….numbers is why people dont fuck with china. At the end of the day if you can have 1 billion guys shooting to the enemies 100 million someone will lose, almost always the small guy. Look at tibet they try and fight but in the end they always lose. The numbers game while you hate it is an effective strategy, numbers plays as a moral boost as well as making sov grinds that much easier. Put numbers with decent/good/great FC's, mostly free ships and a Charismatic "Messiah" the sheeple will fight to the end of days.

    July 12, 2012 at 11:11 am Reply
    1. TESTical

      Your kinda an idiot if you think there was a war in delve, ether an idiot, or you didn't take part in the structure grinding I did,

      July 12, 2012 at 2:40 pm Reply
  16. some goon

    The only time I recall anyone referring to this as a 'great war' was before the CFC deployed south by wistful bittervets hoping to find something worth logging in for.

    AAA did a good job of making sure that didn't happen as fast as fucking possible.

    July 12, 2012 at 4:42 pm Reply
  17. Fletch

    PL Love playing with supers. For this reason they always ensure they are on the side that has super cap superiority. It does not matter to them who they are blue with at the time. Be it NC. Raiden. Russians Goons or anyone else in EVE.
    They cannot and will not fight a war where they are unable to escalate the super war beyond that of their oponents.

    July 12, 2012 at 5:24 pm Reply
    1. PL are roleplayers!

      PL does not love to play with supers more than others… PL is a bunch of misfits who have fallen out with practically everyone in EVE by being the worst kind of players one can imagine to find. They are wicked, creepy and shifty. They now did it again. Not only do they fight well, but they had to flip sov and steal ISKs and assets on top of it. Anyone with such a play style will never find friends. And do not think they are friends with Goons and TEST. Goons/TEST are using PL as a meat shield and not to have to fight them. However, PL are not nomads by choice, but because nobody wants them as their neighbour. You can either see PL as a bunch of psychos and idiots, who fail to fit into any social network, or they are very good roleplayers, who know well how to play the evil, unloved and unwanted party.

      July 12, 2012 at 5:42 pm Reply

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