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Jester’s Trek: The Ego Has Landed

So, let’s talk about Delve War V a bit.

First, I have to say that I’m really impressed with this introductory write-up by Elise Randolph.  Elise usually goes with a lot of purple prose and an overblown writing style.  This time, he keeps things simple, descriptive, and eloquent.  It’s some of the best writing about EVE that I’ve seen all year.  So even if you’re not at all interested in sov politics, go out and give it a read.  It’s worth your time, and the piece will give you a great background about what all the fuss is about.

Speaking as two-time sov resident and current sov outsider, there doesn’t seem to be any reason any longer to keep major assets in stations that can be captured.  One of the blows that the “Southern Coalition” has taken in this war is the spy-caused sov flip of one of their major holding systems.  When this happens, the players involved lose docking rights and with it, the ability to extract major assets stored in that station in any numbers.

When pressed, -A- has a history of falling back to NPC 0.0 and usually stages their major assets out of NPC space anyway.  And it’s increasingly a smart move.  More and more, control of capturable stations is lost not through incompetence on the battle-field, but incompetence within the leadership structure of alliances months before the battle starts.  You would think after the last few years that alliances would be better about keeping spies and saboteurs out at the highest level, but the fact is that most alliance leaderships don’t seem to care about such things.  If you say you’re willing to do the boring scut-work associated with sov alliance logistics, it’s easy to be promoted into such a position.

And when the time comes, like the Lannisters throwing open the gates of King’s Landing for Robert’s Rebellion, you lose your station without any hope of defending it or even firing a shot.  Actually attacking a station is for the unimportant ones, and is done less for reasons of capturing territory and more in the hopes that someone — anyone — will show up with a capital ship fleet to defend it.

Between this and eventual destructible outposts, expect the outcry from big alliances to escalate for the ability to grief low-sec and null-sec NPC stations and the small alliance residents thereof.

The other interesting item about this war is this recording of the “State of the Goon” from 30 June.  The Mittani makes a short (about seven minutes) speech about the invasion and the reasons for it.  It’s interesting listening.  But if you have the time, the “State of The Goonion Q&A – June 30th 2012” toward the lower right is even more interesting.  That one is Mittens answering questions from CFC members for about 30 minutes and in the process riffing on several interesting subjects.

Let’s start with the first one first.  It’s amusing to me how absolutely nobody seems to care about the war in Delve.

Mittens certainly doesn’t.  The reasons he gives for the invasion are vague and half-hearted at best.  In particular, he specifies that Delve is turning into a launching point for wars against GSF (or perhaps he means the larger CFC), which I found kind of amusing.  “We have to fight them in Catch so we don’t have to fight them in Deklein,” is the argument, which true or not is so reminiscent of the most recent former U.S. President that it really made me smile.

Why Catch?  I can only speculate, but I’d guess it has something to do with the 19 light-year jump that takes place between 49-U6U in Querious and 4-07MU in Catch in the far southwest corner of space, and the other long jumps parallel to it.  Similarly long jumps exist in the opposite corner of New Eden, and the DRF was very intent on holding the linking systems there.  The reason?  If you hold both sides of this long jump, it’s much tougher for an enemy to stage super-capital ships against you.

Overall though, the swiftness of Delve’s fall (virtually all of it has now fallen) shows how little those who live there care about it.  The region and Delve War V in general literally mean almost nothing.

It’d be nice if there was a war that was worth something, wouldn’t it?

One of the forgotten details of Delve War II is that when that war was launched, the Goons gave up extensive holdings across the southeast part of New Eden.  They moved their entire alliance into NPC Delve and launched their campaign from there, to win or die.  Much like Cortez burning his ships to motivate his men, the leadership of the Goons gave their troops no options… no place to fall back to.  It does kind of make me wonder.  What would happen if -A- did the same thing?  What if they struck their colors entirely in Catch and points east, left their former homes abandoned, moved their entire alliance to NPC Pure Blind, and then struck hard with their entire strength directly west?

It would certainly at least make the war worth something, and would make it mean something, don’t you think?

Just something fun to think about.  It won’t happen.

Amusingly, Mittens also raises the spectre of rooting out this or that FC or corp that was in Band of Brothers once as one of the justifications for the war.  This is a reason that Mittens has trotted out as justification for the last three Goon invasions at least.  Maybe it was on the teleprompter and someone forgot to delete it.  For the record, there’s alliances in the CFC that were in BoB’s sphere of influence, and corps and personnel in the CFC that were in BoB or IT Alliance.  Needless to say, the spectre of BoB in 2012 rings hollow.

That said, it was kind of fun to listen to the end of the Q&A.  The last question Mittens fields is “How do you respond to people who say that Goons are becoming more like Band of Brothers?”  This is a comparison that I’ve made myself once or twice, very teasingly.  So it was interesting to hear how Mittens would respond to it.

In response, Mittens entirely relies on how Band of Brothers operated internally.  Mittens, we don’t compare Goons to BoB because of how you treat your friends.  Most of us neither know nor care about how BoB treated their friends.  We compare you to BoB because of how you treat your enemies, and how you treat neutrals.  That, we care about a great deal.

And in that respect, comparing Goons to BoB is rather more fair.

Anyway, that’s it from me on Delve War V unless something really extraordinary happens.  Given how fast Delve itself has fallen, I consider that massively unlikely.  Expect to see the CFC roll into the Catch border regions, take the important linking systems that are within capital ship jump range of Querious.  And after that, the train should roll to a halt as “diplomacy” takes hold and all of us will be living in a New Eden split between two opposing super-massive blobs.

Which I’ll again remind you is pretty much the exact opposite of what CCP has been saying is what they want in 0.0 for about the last three years now.  How’s that working out for you, CCP?

Ripard Teg

Send us Intel/Corrections


  1. *sigh* Ripard…

    July 10, 2012 at 11:06 am Reply
  2. guest

    im pretty sure that goons dont even know why the fight anymore.
    when you have more in common with the grunts in the opposing fleet then yoru own leader you know your lost.

    July 10, 2012 at 11:06 am Reply
    1. OhGod

      Uh what? We know precisely why we fight and what for.

      Tears, delicious tears. A prime supplier is currently a certain soundcloud resident. It's great.

      Also there's so much fun propaganda and we can always hop into a fleet led by new FCs because there's always one open. Reimbursment for everything too. So tell me again why I should not fight or not know why I fight?

      I fight because it's hilariously fun right now. There I said it: I'm having fun in eve!

      July 10, 2012 at 11:38 am Reply
      1. Random Idiot

        then you will be disappointed when there is no one left to fight?

        July 10, 2012 at 12:56 pm Reply
        1. Crotchface

          you mean structures right?

          July 10, 2012 at 1:30 pm Reply
        2. OhGod

          Eh what? There is always Empire and always will be. We're never running out of targets. This too is just one of the many many things people spew around about us without thinking it through.

          Besides, there's a few more entities than just SoCo left, you know, even if you outright dismiss it. You also posit that the CFC intends to conquer all space which is a huge assumption in itself.

          July 10, 2012 at 3:21 pm Reply
        3. Gerard

          Then we'll fight eachother, much like we were doing before the delve war started.

          TEST vs FA was pretty cool.

          July 10, 2012 at 3:24 pm Reply
          1. A Pilot

            A good ol' fashioned wrastling between cousins is always a good thing.

            July 10, 2012 at 3:56 pm
      2. Justsaying

        They fight for the publicity, look at how every alliance in the CFC has grown since Garth here and Rivirini have started their propaganda war agianst them, some have doubled in size.

        July 10, 2012 at 3:35 pm Reply
  3. Hurpin

    goons are shit, end of subject….hope you get hit by a bus mittins while your riding you tricycle to work

    July 10, 2012 at 11:07 am Reply
    1. Anhenka

      I dislike goons, but anyone who rides a tricycle to work gets my RL stamp of approval.

      July 10, 2012 at 11:11 am Reply
      1. DAWT

        Confirming tricycles are l33t.

        July 10, 2012 at 11:14 am Reply
        1. Kiz

          Going to buy a tricycle RIGHT NOW.

          July 10, 2012 at 5:02 pm Reply
          1. wootsnoot

            mittens doesn't go to work

            July 11, 2012 at 10:10 am
          2. Dogbeast

            mittens doesnt work, your right. but thats because he got fired (vacation)

            July 16, 2012 at 10:50 pm
          3. Easterner

            I wish I had a tricycle.

            July 11, 2012 at 10:30 am
    2. Furpin

      you are poor

      July 10, 2012 at 12:58 pm Reply
    3. Yearg

      Hoping a retard gets hit by a bus is worse than encouraging someone to commit suicide.

      July 10, 2012 at 1:09 pm Reply
    4. Goon

      Mittens has retired, so doubt that's gonna happen.

      July 10, 2012 at 1:53 pm Reply
      1. Dogbeast

        he tells you that doesnt he? well too bad he got fired for being a shitty lawyer

        July 16, 2012 at 10:52 pm Reply
    5. Gerard

      How does it feel to get your ass kicked by stitastic eve players.

      July 10, 2012 at 3:27 pm Reply
  4. Ugh

    This article has got so many facts, plenty of good points, so much truth, tons of insights and a hell lot of wisdom … missing.

    July 10, 2012 at 11:20 am Reply
  5. > Most of us neither know nor care about how BoB treated their friends.

    Well that's a lie, everyone knows that BoB/IT were always ready to treat their pets like shit, ignoring batphone calls and generally just abusing them.
    Publicly it seems, CFC has got it right – fight, or GTFO. Ain't no beating about the bush with that one, and if any non-GSF members are viewed as pets, they certainly get given opportunity to earn their place – or equally, to lose it. Unlike BoB.

    For me, the comparison between CFC and BoB is a simple one. BoB always wanted to conquer all of Eve's conquerable space. I imagine that at some point CFC will do exactly that, and at that point SirMolle will choke on his barbequed hot dog. What other reason would a BoB-hating entity emulate an important goal for? Can you imagine the e-peen that'll be created if CFC succeed where BoB failed?

    July 10, 2012 at 11:24 am Reply
    1. Northerner

      If you're telling yourself crap like this to sleep better at night, go ahead Bob.

      July 10, 2012 at 12:11 pm Reply
      1. You seem to be confused. I believe in "Fuck Goons, but fuck BoB harder". I don't care for either group. BoB did treat their pets like shit, whether you like to admit it or not. And no, I was never a BoB pet; I was in RAGE(and thus a meatshield for ME and MM).

        July 10, 2012 at 1:34 pm Reply
        1. Keirasu

          Agreed, I was in a BoB pet alliance (FIX) back in the day and I always felt like I we were getting treated like shit but was way too far down the chain for my opinion to matter. Goons do treat those in their circle of influence well, props for that at least.

          July 11, 2012 at 5:57 am Reply
  6. Random Miner

    CCP makes me laugh. They seem to have a vision for where they want EVE to go. But at the same time they seem to love the ones who are fucking up their vision. It's like they're a battered wife or something

    July 10, 2012 at 11:28 am Reply
    1. DRF is fun

      Was a really nice article about CCP need for blobs. I recomand you read it.

      TdLr: If your in a big blob/alliance you stay longer in the game = pay more $$ to play and give CCP better adverticement. (200.000 players sounds better then 2.000 players)

      Think CCP made the decision long ago that 0.0 is for Blobs and only blobs and that NPC/WH/lowsec is for small-ish gangs

      July 10, 2012 at 1:38 pm Reply
      1. M1k3y

        You mean lowsec is for ganking noobships/T1 haulers.

        July 10, 2012 at 6:31 pm Reply
        1. Spoken like a true null f1 monkey with no brain lol..

          July 11, 2012 at 1:10 am Reply
      2. I disagree with the idea that if you are in a big alliance you stay longer. When I was in null sec it took 5 months before I was rdy to just toss this game out. I moved back to low sec and started running solo/small gang stuff and have had a blast ever since. Over a year later I am still having tons of fun and dont intend to quit any time soon.

        It honestly depends on the individual, how they look at what is fun and what is not. I see plenty of ex big alliance guys turn small gang pvp'ers and love it. And I have seen many small gang pvp'ers go to null sec to try the big sov wars and end up loving it. So to say 1 is better then the other is just silly imo.

        July 11, 2012 at 1:15 am Reply
  7. Gentlegoon

    Riptard's sanity has left the building

    July 10, 2012 at 11:37 am Reply
    1. Killboards matter

      I read this and thought he must be having an acid flashback – The best part is how fat, greasy riverini is foaming at the mouth for anything like this

      July 10, 2012 at 2:07 pm Reply
  8. OhGod

    We're not only taking 3 regions from people that think themselves so highly they don't even defend it. We're taking an identity. Today there's the SoCo – Southern Coalition. This is their last war. After the three regions are taken (and let's face it 2 are basically a done deal as of today already and the final one will not be contested anyway) there is no longer a "south". There will be an eastern bloc and a western bloc.

    We're not only taking 3 regions, we're taking the (current) identity of the enemies. This is the last war N v S.

    July 10, 2012 at 11:42 am Reply
    1. Northerner

      Yeah but you're also fighting -A-.
      They got their teeth kicked in and fled to NPC0.0 so often, they're used to bounce back from that.

      So yeah, take SoCo's regions, enjoy the grind and I'm ready to taste your tears in a month or so.

      July 10, 2012 at 12:08 pm Reply
      1. Cpt. Jack Sparrow

        "We are engaging in the oldest and noblest of traditions; to run away, so that we might fight again later!" Haha not a direct quote from Captain Jack, but it's close enough.

        July 10, 2012 at 4:10 pm Reply
    2. DRF is fun

      SoCos last war.

      That makes it what??? Last was nr 6 already ?

      July 10, 2012 at 1:43 pm Reply
      1. DRF is fun

        Last war nr6 already

        NewBoB retardness must be rubbing off on me

        July 10, 2012 at 1:44 pm Reply
    3. AAA grunt

      My last war huh :)
      You goons are so delusional.
      We have faced a big and more skilled blob before and it all ends the same.

      July 10, 2012 at 3:40 pm Reply
      1. Boogie_Jones

        This repetitive response is amusing.

        July 10, 2012 at 3:48 pm Reply
      2. OhGod

        Last war under this identity for people who see words but cannot comprehend them. Stop playing video games, go to a school and get an education.

        July 10, 2012 at 6:02 pm Reply
    4. mf doom

      get a life nerd. We'll play on sisi. You can control space by yourself…. What an awesome challenge!

      July 10, 2012 at 4:42 pm Reply
  9. xxolve

    Just what the internet needs… more poorly interpreted opinionated drivel.

    July 10, 2012 at 11:45 am Reply
  10. Good to see the GoonSwarm Damage control kicking in full swing, you just got called for what you are and what you been asking New Eden call you for a long time already; the New Band of Brothers.

    The Mittani —> Present day SirMolle
    GoonSwarm Federation —> Present Day B0B
    DekCo —> Present day Greater B0B Coalition

    You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain

    In fact, from now on – the Deklein Coalition is over – I'll start calling you the New Band of Brothers. or NewBBs :)

    July 10, 2012 at 11:46 am Reply
    1. Hench

      What's dekco?

      July 10, 2012 at 11:53 am Reply
      1. Hench

        Furthermore, how can one alliance in the CFC sphere be BoB?

        July 10, 2012 at 11:54 am Reply
        1. Easterner

          BoB was surrounded by friendly alliances called the greater BoB coalition, so the comparison sort of makes sense if you see goons as being the central alliance.

          BoB treated their allies in a completely different way. But there's some similarities at least – a coalition led by a strong central alliance, completely ridiculous propaganda announcements, a single figurehead that people rally around, the egotism (although having a huge ego is common to just about every eve player).

          The culture of BoB and goons were massively different, though.

          July 10, 2012 at 12:06 pm Reply
      2. dekco

        it can save you 15% or more on car insurance.

        July 10, 2012 at 8:09 pm Reply
    2. NC. Scrub

      In b4 cfc tears and rage!

      July 10, 2012 at 11:54 am Reply
    3. Shoot2kili

      I'm absolutely amazed that you manage to wake up every morning. I would think that posts like that would leave some sort of cognitive dissonance, but apparently not. Spouting meme's and kicking dead horses full in the face doesn't actually equivelate to a legitimate argument, you understand that, right?

      Oh wait. You're Rivereni, this is En24, and for some God awful reason, you still feel the need to shove your intolerable and incoherent shit down peoples throats and call it news. I nearly forgot.

      July 10, 2012 at 11:54 am Reply
      1. U mad brah? hahaha!!!

        July 10, 2012 at 11:55 am Reply
        1. News???

          Is that all you can resort to? 2 dollar crap meme trolling? No wonder most articles are shit, have shit topics or have shit coverage and shit grammar. Once again you proved to be a complete retard.

          July 10, 2012 at 12:19 pm Reply
        2. ddsddsd

          Riveni, I invite you to say that un kugu, not here where shitposts are the order of the day (to make my point, see how i get neg-repped to oblivion by all the soco fanbois or the goon haters both).

          PS: please make some sort of sense once in a while at least… it'll do you good to actually think and speak literate for a change.

          July 10, 2012 at 12:43 pm Reply
          1. Easterner

            Kugu is pretty much just as bad – full of one line posts, 'u mad' comments and a big PL/goon cheer squad.

            July 10, 2012 at 12:45 pm
          2. ddsddsd

            while i agree… it's not as bad as en24 comments section…. some articles are even decent.

            July 10, 2012 at 1:09 pm
          3. DRF is fun

            Kugu = 2000 NewBoB and PL members circlejerking each other about how shit -A- is :)

            July 10, 2012 at 1:41 pm
          4. ddsddsd

            i'm sorry, are you actually saing that -a- is NOT SHIT?

            i would be amazed at that…. really.

            July 10, 2012 at 2:31 pm
          5. Eve vet

            Lol Kugu? Kugu is the biggest cesspool of shit in EVE known to man. It used to be better but now it spiraled so far into a PL/CFC circlejerking fan-club that you can't read through any page without running into blatant propaganda, high fives, and plain old bullshit.

            July 10, 2012 at 6:21 pm
          6. Hello


            July 11, 2012 at 12:56 am
          7. NCdot

            You must be that guy "Fix Lag". It's always a dumb "hahahahaa" response when he doesn't have a good response to come up with.

            July 11, 2012 at 5:30 pm
          8. A Goon

            Hey boy… rep my tech moons. Good dog.

            July 14, 2012 at 11:06 pm
          9. xxolve

            Actually I prefer Kugu, at least Riverini can't doctor his Karma, or delete posts that go against his views there.

            You know- he's not practically infamous for that. Practically.

            July 11, 2012 at 8:24 am
        3. CareBearStares

          lol man. Sipping on coffee and watching Riverini troll about 4 dudes with a dino turd meme and mentioning equivialency between Goons and BoB.
          Hilmar is in his heaven, all is right with the world.

          July 11, 2012 at 4:16 pm Reply
      2. Anon

        thought, stop visiting the site?

        July 10, 2012 at 10:39 pm Reply
    4. Phigmeta

      He puts the tears in the bucket or gets the rails

      July 10, 2012 at 1:03 pm Reply
      1. Imigo

        *It puts…

        July 11, 2012 at 12:25 am Reply
    5. Bittervet

      Im not sure thats fair to Goonswarm,

      BoB's batphone to the developers was nowhere near as efficient.

      July 10, 2012 at 1:12 pm Reply
      1. BoB's batphone to the developers was nowhere near as efficient.

        Grantes, they do batphone their dev friends to fast track or push back stuff… (titan tracking, war decs, keeping tech as it, etc. etc…)

        July 10, 2012 at 1:53 pm Reply
        1. Boogie_Jones

          I love how Goons get the blame when there's other representatives on the CSM. And about Tech, Goons have been calling it a bottleneck since it started. Take enough of it, make ludicrous amounts of ISK, create a cartel. Eventually CCP will take notice and fix it. Yes it's nice being filthy rich all the time. I mean, literally Scrouge McDuck. It's also a fucking awful problem.

          July 10, 2012 at 3:54 pm Reply
          1. M1k3y

            CCP know tech is broken and they keep promising to fix it, but there's always something thats of more "immediate importance"

            July 10, 2012 at 6:35 pm
          2. aurum

            like adding new ugly military shirts to the Nex store.

            July 10, 2012 at 8:07 pm
        2. Kratisto

          Ultimately the only ammunition Riverini has is to directly compare the Goons to BoB. He was once allied to goons, and for a longer time now he has flown against. When the frenzied flailing of his long-range neut curse failed to stem the tide of the CFC, he turns now to petty insults and being a pitiful troll.

          The cfc is unified on a level BoB never was. To be a CFC pilot is to be treated exactly the same as a goon. You will not be left to die outside a staging pos, lacking a pw. The CFC will not deploy to defend your region, only to claim to be there for good fights, and certainly will never be k/d ratio killboard whores.

          Will you try to claim the bomb fix was only a big deal because PL/Goonswarm complained, and that it had no major ramifications elsewhere in the game? Tech is imba as shit, but there was a point the CFC held only a small portion of it; they fought for the resources they now hold. Do you recall the titan tracking problem at all? even PL (then enemies of the CFC) thought they needed tweaking. And look, they are still being dropped on subcaps, and they are still influential to subcap battles (lol -A-). If you think the Wardec system was in a good place, and that Goonswarm was unhappy about being at war with a good portion of highsec, youre a gibbering moron. Goonswarm logistics was never impacted, and the only effect on the common Goonswarm member was they had to pay red frog to move their catalysts 1-2j outside major travel hubs to avoid the insta-nados. Comparatively, any highsec group that was wardeccing people for any reason suddenly found themselves swarmed by the collective might of the majority of eve's griefers… Who do you think was in a worse position?

          And lastly to touch upon the old NC as you always will and people always do, about goonswarm abandoning their friends. Goonswarm treated the NC as a single entity, as people may treat the CFC, and a plan was formed to defend trib. Unfortunately the NC were unable to cohesively collect their pilots, from several alliances, into a force greater than 80 dudes for any given timer. The NC leadership was terribly inept at informing its pilots about anything, so concerned about spies as they were. In the last supercap stand under a timer, Goonswarm wasnt even told about it until it was happening, and by then it was too late.

          Logic and reason never did have much sway on the mind of riverini though.

          July 10, 2012 at 4:49 pm Reply
        3. A Pilot

          These were major problems within the game that had been refused to be addressed, either because it wasn't that important in the eyes of CCP or simply :CCP:

          Titan tracking was insane, if you have never been on the receiving end of it let me just say that you cannot win. The best the CFC could do against them was suicide hundreds, if not thousands of ships at them, and would only manage to kill 1 or 2 Titans if they were lucky. Otherwise they were night un-killable.

          Also remember, this is post Crucible, post Mittani's influence in the CSM. The company that runs our beloved game has gone through somewhat of a revolution since Incarna, creating Crucible. To compare the same company that was there in 08 to now isn't a fair comparison, more akin to dusk than dawn. Major issues that were present PRE-Incarna were finally addressed, with or without Mittani's role in the CSM it still occurred. If I really have to explain all the fixes that occurred I am wasting my time in writing this.

          Also there is a difference between fast tracking fixes for exploits/broken mechanics in a game than to simply get BPO's spawned for you. If you cannot see the difference you are blinded by your prejudice against the CFC and Goonswarm Federation.

          However no large entity is without it's black sheep, the fiasco of the Faction Warfare was not perpetuated by Goonswarm as a whole, but rather individuals within the alliance. It's also not a exploit in the clearest way either, as the individuals functioned within the rules of the game without breaking the mechanics or getting an unintentional result (like the Ferro Gel exploit). Should they have reported it? Maybe, it was game breaking in the arena of Faction Warfare that they could influence the entire Minmitar, but it also was within the rules of the game.

          The response time of CCP to game breaking exploits or crashes has exponentially increased since Crucible, to claim that "the goons" have the ability to call up CCP Soundwave and get a hotfix for titan tracking or even fast track such a process is ridiculous. Not only would it cost anyone involved their jobs at CCP, titan tracking was fixed during Mittani's tenure in the CSM, and these fixes are not simply something that get shoved forward to overly complicated problems within the game (Tech).

          Then again bombers got bugged, then hot-fixed poorly. It was also CFC+Honeybadgers bombing themselves to get the attention of CCP. :tinfoil:

          July 10, 2012 at 5:04 pm Reply
          1. dasd

            nice post mate, one of the few good ones around… Tough i must add to something.

            Rivenni claims that the CFC are the game-breakers.. tough all of SOCO were pat-backing themselfs with the enormous bomb drops upon CFC BS's (lol wtf) and great kills with SB's.
            It took a MAJOR show of how broken the mechanic is to finally make CCP act, and yet people are saying that the CFC is owning ccp
            I must even say, did any of the cfc pilots loosing BS's to bombs ask CCP for reimburcement? I must remind you, killing an Maelstorm with hardners on with bombs requires a lot of coordination and precise bombing to even have a chanse to work.

            I just think Rivenni was touched in naughty places by a pack of goons and thus his resinment for them… else he is just completely out of place owning a news site that isn't at least with the managerial staff OBJECTIVE.

            July 10, 2012 at 9:14 pm
          2. Third Party

            Oh i seem to have forgotten only the soco can purchase and use bombers. Also most the runs were done on drake fleet. And lastly this was not a known exploit at the time thy were only thought to be good bombing runs. And you act like the lose of a few hundred battlecruisers actually means anything at all to eve as a whole

            July 11, 2012 at 12:37 am
          3. guy

            South gets owned by the blob, their only counter was using bombers.

            Bombers suddenly declared bugged by PL+CFC

            CCP breaks bombers for an entire weekend.

            South suddenly unable to defend for an entire weekend.

            Delve falls over the weekend.

            July 11, 2012 at 2:20 am
          4. A Pilot

            If you haven't seen the video of a 150+ bomber fleet killing a carrier and a dread whilst launching bombs all at the same time, I would suggest looking into it.
            (have a helpful link

            If you are unfamiliar with bombs, you can only launch around 7-8 bombs at the same time before they start destroying each other. The bombs were not damaging each other pre-hotfix allowing easy and highly effective bombing runs, that could have had the potential to literally kill anything in one salvo given enough bombers. The hotfix made it so that bombs took full damage from another bomb, making runs impossible.

            The idea that an entire region can be taken in ONE weekend is wrong on so many levels it truly hurts me. You clearly have no idea on how Sov Warfare works or the concept of timers, much less the tactics revolving around them. As "A Pilot" whom has literally grinded through 5 regions (not making me the saltiest 0.0 pilot, but not making me unintelligent to the process), if an Alliance or Coalition wants to defend their space they can do so on THEIR terms.

            Every major timer, stations and IHUBS, require 3 consecutive victories to take/kill. Between each timer, you can set them to come out during THE DEFENDING ALLIANCES PRIMETIME in order to stack the odds against your opponent. The best part is you can set a timer so it comes out almost TWO DAYS later. If an intelligent and coordinated group wished to defend anything, they could at least make it last 4 days.

            Delve, Querious, and Period Basis were lost because of failures in leadership, organization, Fleet Commanders, numbers, subterfuge/sabotage, and most importantly failure to defend key systems. Not because the only way to defend their space was to use bombers.

            Bombers do not win Sov Wars. They can stop fleets at their best, and grind Sov slowly, but they will never be able to compete on the same field as Supers and Titans. If I'm not mistaken, SoCo was reportedly to have a much larger contigent of Supers/Titans than CFC+Honeybaders.

            Then again, I thought this war was going to take quite a while.

            July 11, 2012 at 5:42 am
          5. asdf

            The best CFC could do is just buy the fucking things. Have you any idea how much CFC tech moons generate isk per month? Where is it going?

            July 10, 2012 at 9:34 pm
          6. Anon

            *points toward mittani bank statements*

            July 10, 2012 at 10:38 pm
        4. Troll of Trolls

          * When it came down to TitanTracking or the most recent Wardec issue i have no illusions that they have tried to pursade the CCP (old friends etc).

          * When 5 member of GSF decides to mess up FW and print money them self CCP decided they should get a slap on the wrist only. in my book I would have given out a temporary ban on thoes account involved. still no GSF issue.

          * on the Bomb issue, thats not GSF fault and they did report it <clean> bombing allied to test theory should even grant the allied fleet reinbursements.

          But even if GSF calls "old friends" in CCP the CCP representatives should have so mutch integrity that they are unaffected. I think CCP should realy start to work on there employees integrety and have a clear guideline how to deal with this kind of pressure and how to deal with it. Essentialy if a old friend of mine contact me at work with something work related i will listen to him but i will not make de deal alone. i will hand over to another coworker and let him decide.
          Just so noone can play the blame game on me. CCP have to do the same thing. There is tons of connections between players and devs and that good but if the trust is even considered to have been violated its always bad for the company.

          TL;DR version don't blame either BoB or GSF for CCP shortcomming.

          July 11, 2012 at 6:45 am Reply
    6. No one important

      "Mittens, we don’t compare Goons to BoB because of how you treat your friends. Most of us neither know nor care about how BoB treated their friends. We compare you to BoB because of how you treat your enemies, and how you treat neutrals. That, we care about a great deal.

      And in that respect, comparing Goons to BoB is rather more fair."

      Let me paraphrase that: "If I ignore the logical distinction you have raised, then I can say you are the same. That is, if I ignore the fact that an orange is orange, and merely say "it is a fruit which comes from a tree", then indeed I can say that apples equal oranges."

      Jester: you're making a straw man argument.

      July 10, 2012 at 3:11 pm Reply
  11. Spot On

    May be ww2 is a bit over used, but apart from that, isn't this just spot on?

    [youtube -zzCQMEBBTY&hd=1 youtube]

    July 10, 2012 at 12:02 pm Reply
    1. M1k3y

      Godwin's Law.

      Also, how can that many titans sit in the same space and NOT bump each other 100's of km in every direction?

      July 10, 2012 at 6:46 pm Reply
      1. buuuuuuump!

        Yeah I seem to remember a totally newsworthy TAGN article about titans bumping each other,

        July 10, 2012 at 7:56 pm Reply
    2. Silentskills

      some people forget this is just a game

      July 10, 2012 at 7:36 pm Reply
    3. Imigo

      Cute video. Tyranny is a bit of a stretch though.

      July 11, 2012 at 12:36 am Reply
  12. I have won EvE

    Having lived under both goons and BoB, the goons are a hell of alot better!

    BoB used to keep renters, not allies.

    July 10, 2012 at 12:20 pm Reply
  13. Akrasjel Lanate

    "In response, Mittens entirely relies on how Band of Brothers operated internally. Mittens, we don’t compare Goons to BoB because of how you treat your friends. Most of us neither know nor care about how BoB treated their friends. We compare you to BoB because of how you treat your enemies, and how you treat neutrals. That, we care about a great deal."

    July 10, 2012 at 12:31 pm Reply
  14. Hemmo Paskiainen

    Dont care about space, Dont care about pixels in summer, Dont care about CCP Incompetence aslong as i has isk to buy Plex, Dont care about all these shitty propaganda post posted here, Dont Care about Soco not undocking to get cyno blobbed 4-1, Dont care about eve, Dont care about goons. Dont care about politics, Dont care about anything related to eve basicly….. Once you realise how shitty retarded this game is and how incompetend eve is you woudlnt care ether…. CCP Employeers care more about themselve than the game in general…

    July 10, 2012 at 12:36 pm Reply
  15. Random Idiot

    the exact opposite of what CCP has been saying is what they want in 0.0 for about the last three years now. How’s that working out for you, CCP?

    is CCP ever going to tackle this?

    July 10, 2012 at 12:54 pm Reply
    1. Gobias Some Coffee

      It's not exactly an easy thing to just "fix"

      July 10, 2012 at 1:04 pm Reply
      1. M1k3y


        If goons cant replace 1000+ man drake fleets, they wont be able to take/hold half of 0.0

        July 10, 2012 at 6:50 pm Reply
        1. O.o

          They did it without the tech when they were invading and taking it. It does provide a big advantage though.

          The SoCo could reimburse 1000+ drake fleets, too. Instead they choose to fly (and lose) Tengus/Lokis.

          July 10, 2012 at 7:05 pm Reply
          1. -A- FC

            Tengus and Lokis are fully reimbursed… we look forward to goons losing their terrible fit tengu blob fleet to a bombing run.

            We don't have tech but we can still afford to replace a T3 fleet twice a week. Not that we want to, but it is fun to brawl vs 5x your number of drakes.

            Makes you wonder though were's all that tech money is going if some shitty income southern alliance can cover the cost..

            July 10, 2012 at 7:39 pm
          2. Catastrophe

            It's going to Mittani retirement fund duh!

            July 11, 2012 at 4:12 am
          3. fix tech

            I don't mind blobbing if one person can convince 1000 other dudes to climb into drakes or alpha maelstroms because they are fighting for a common cause, or they really hate who they are fighting, or they really are buddy buddy broskies.

            I don't like blobbing if 1000 dudes climb into tengus because, "Hey hey! Free tengus for everyone! also nobody likes being on the losing side of a fight and we have way more supers than they ever could. Also our pets have to fight otherwise we'll curb stomp them next if they don't"

            And I think tech, as well as the week long sov timers, have a lot to do with that.

            July 10, 2012 at 7:52 pm
      2. MyWay

        yes it is. it takes alot of changes but here is my sugestion on how to solve it

        1# make the sov holding cost increase exponentaly this will cause you to no longer hold 100+ system / alliance perhaps 10-30 this will increase the number of minor alliances.

        2# allow your empire to force the inital battle to stand on the border of the empire could be controlled by the Ihub holding some kind of upgrade that dissallowed BC + to pass throug untill its destroyed that will form a main battle line and a skirmish line behind the border systems where Blackop and Cruisers can dig in behind enemy line and harass this should only work if you keep your emipre together no empty system between. — encourage you to group your system together and to have a pretty safe zone to do industry/mining work in when your alliance is so small.

        3# Removal of local and introduction of a new intel tool, some kind of tool that can tell you
        * how many in system
        * apox where in system and perhaps even
        * what ships
        * how many in nearby systems.
        the intel should come from variable sources:
        scanning arrays (POS:es)
        deep space scanning arrays (Pos) to see nearby systems,
        Probing for local intel
        — allow you to never be realy safe when traveling alone. you can nolonger check local
        you can nolonger trust your intel unless its your system.

        sure thing Coalitions can still be formed but i doubt that anyone can get
        40+ alliances to work together and I also want CCP to support Coalitions as a specialization above Alliances that allow coalitions chat, sharing intel over coaltions etc.
        this is needed if we create a automated intel tool.

        see its about 3month development time most of the time goes in to the intel tool
        and would change the face of eve Nullsec forever.

        July 11, 2012 at 7:06 am Reply
        1. MyWay

          and i whould also put in a few extra jump gates between the regions to make traveleing easier perhaps more entry points to NPC null or entry points to lowsec.

          July 11, 2012 at 7:23 am Reply
  16. Troll of Trolls

    what i feel eve is lacking is

    a# border control of your empire, major ship of the line can pass throug unhindered
    b# a more cloak and dagger style of the black ops, giving them the ability to work behind the "border zone"
    c# remove local and force the fighting force to rely on intel and make the intel automatic in a built in tool.

    this would give system owner a bonus from a "station" intel array
    while the attacker will have to relay on probers and deep space intel.

    its just me but local as a tool is down right retarded.
    (and we get more fun fights)

    July 10, 2012 at 1:35 pm Reply
  17. Dice

    I disagree with almost everything in this post, but it does raise one very important point that I think needs to be addressed, in particular. You said: "You would think after the last few years that alliances would be better about keeping spies and saboteurs out at the highest level, but the fact is that most alliance leaderships don’t seem to care about such things." It is this point that I want to discuss. I think EVE is actually fundamentally broken when it comes to the "Spy" profession. I agree that it should be a viable profession, and more power to CCP for allowing the play-style. Unfortunately, my personal opinion it is a play-style with too many protections.

    It is not possible to catch a spy with in-game knowledge, if that spy knows what they're doing (ie, uses a pristine account for spying, doesn't communicate out-of-role via evemail from that account, doesn't trade or contract out-of-role from that account, and so forth) since even a full API key is simply not enough. You need to track non-game information like IP addresses, to match those to known players in other alliances, in order to track spies or prevent them from infiltrating your corporation or alliance. This is a fundamental problem (ie, an in-game profession that cannot be countered in-game).

    It is not that alliance leaders don't care about spies, at all – it's that some alliance leaders don't have the technical (non-game) ability to stop it. Most of those realise that it's basically impossible to prevent using non RL-means, and so throw up their hands in resignation. There are, of course, exceptions (if I remember correctly, PL had a database set up which contained all known IP addresses of hostile and friendly pilots, gleaned from IRC servers and TS/Vent logins, as well as forum logins) and of course, most spies aren't nearly so careful as the most professional ones (and would / should be caught by thorough background checks – such as trawling through their evemails / contract history / killboard history / etc) but nonetheless I think the fact that there literally is no in-game counter for one particular play style, is a problem.

    This is a personal opinion, but I think that if the metagame pertaining to EVE was reduced somewhat, it would be a positive thing for the game.

    July 10, 2012 at 1:56 pm Reply
  18. Marcus_McTavish

    The real fun in Eve is fighting as the "underdog" and defeating a coalition.

    SoCo may hold out, deep in their space. CFC may run out of steam.

    These coalitions need to break up into smaller groups.

    Good article, but honestly i want more of whats happening in Geminate, not whats happening in Delve.

    July 10, 2012 at 2:13 pm Reply
    1. The Observer

      I hear ya. Geminate has had so many of the elusive "GUDFITES" that I'm about to start calling it the unicorn region. Sure, there's been some one sided rape fests, but that happens in any war. Delve has been nothing but 1000 v 400 blob fests and super-cap drops on anything even remotely resembling an even fight. Good thing about Geminate is that both sides have fairly even super numbers and a fairly even income. That and the numbers seem to be similar, as well as similar fleet compositions. If one side wins, its usually because of FC error on the opposition or because an FC did something freaking amazing that's completely unexpected.

      Delve? It's like Vietnam. A war that few people care about and fewer people want to fight in.

      July 10, 2012 at 5:26 pm Reply
  19. Catastrophe

    Not sure how BOB treated their friends but we sure know how Goons treat their friends. Did everyone already forget about Black mark? Ohh we no longer like you… you have 1 week to leave so we can divy up your space to other goon pets that we like more…

    July 10, 2012 at 3:58 pm Reply
    1. Kratisto

      Black mark imploded due to incompetent leadership. The meat of the alliance left for FA (because zagdul isnt completely retarded i guess) and what was left was told to gtfo. Look what Goonswarm did for RZR; they went and help them get their historical region back for them, including all the tech moons in it, just for the sake of being bros. Well they also did it because fuck raiden, but the space could have been taken for someone else.

      July 10, 2012 at 5:37 pm Reply
      1. Catastrophe

        "just for sake of being bros" thx that made me laugh. More like just for sake of needing meatshield goon pet on eastern front

        July 11, 2012 at 4:11 am Reply
        1. FA pretty princess

          A meatshield against the unstoppable might of IRC, surely.

          July 11, 2012 at 11:51 am Reply
    2. Zish

      as a former blackmark pilot i was incredibly happy that the alliance was evicted. i joined fa and have been very happy ever since (:

      July 13, 2012 at 7:22 am Reply
      1. Dogbeast

        lol you were in black mark

        July 16, 2012 at 10:46 pm Reply
  20. skullair

    There will never be a worth while war to many alliance worry about living to the next day. Few alliances are willing to whelp everything for a good fight…. -A- should drop supers intending to lose em all >_>

    July 10, 2012 at 4:36 pm Reply
  21. Bitter Vet

    Tbf they could probably take over most of Eve by 2013 really wouldnt surprise me, too many numbers and too many supercaps and far too easy to move ships from place a to place b if you have the means to do it. Should take like a week to move caps from south to north not less than a day and should cost a hell of alot more in fuel. It is a galaxy afterall you know, Eve is so unbalanced atm for a self sustaining community with no intervention. Really needs to be sorted and soon

    July 10, 2012 at 4:52 pm Reply
    1. Itwi
      July 11, 2012 at 7:03 am Reply
    2. Easterner

      Yeah, the ease of moving about and timer based warfare does turn it into a game of building the biggest coalition. I don't know if that's good or bad.

      Despite all the propaganda soco is burning through a lot of cfc ships, but I doubt they'll be able to stop them. So yeah, we might see a game with a single super-coalition by next year.

      July 11, 2012 at 8:49 am Reply
  22. NullSecNoob

    Don't are why the CFC went to Delve, just like the fighting and loot. Bring more factional loot.

    July 10, 2012 at 6:07 pm Reply
  23. Blackula

    Holy fuck, by some of the comments here you'd think that The Mittani had showed up at your houses and gunned down your families while violating your daughters.

    Delve isn't big news because a) it's massively one-sided and b) it hasn't escalated into a mutual supercap conflict, which I imagine most people were hoping it would. There's nothing like a half-dozen exploding titans to catch the capsuleer's attention.

    July 10, 2012 at 6:16 pm Reply
  24. Zhe Enemee is near

    Most amusing here is the mentioning of how one treats their enemies. When someone puts the treatment of enemies before the treatment of friends then it just means that friends have become less important. Of course, the bigger you are, the less you need friends, but why then the need to emphasis on your enemies? One can just as easily support ones friends to fight the enemy for you and thereby help your friends to grow and strengthen the relationship with your friends.

    But we are talking Goons here. It seems their self-declared end-game is beginning to show: to fight all of EVE and to make all of EVE the enemy.

    July 10, 2012 at 8:23 pm Reply
  25. Goonman

    We donc compare Goon to BoB because

    Goon is on top of the game
    BoB is dead


    July 10, 2012 at 9:31 pm Reply
    1. Anon

      BoB was on top as well and is now dead…foreshadowing much?

      July 10, 2012 at 10:40 pm Reply
  26. Independant Observer

    Having lived under/against both Bob and Goons in 0.0, I can factually say they are now the same entity.

    Change the semantics all you want, the results are the same.

    July 10, 2012 at 9:52 pm Reply
  27. some goon

    I don't think BoB was known for blobbing, general ineptitude, and mocking outside alliances for being too ~elitepvp~. Get over the comparison.

    July 10, 2012 at 10:10 pm Reply
  28. Scoops

    good article, enjoyable reading.

    July 11, 2012 at 5:25 am Reply
  29. boob

    The larger the sov area, the harder it is to defend it. Delve people will start a partisan war in Delve and all CFC plans into -a- lands will be ruined… It's so easy to do it. Sooner or later CFC will get its shitstorm.

    July 11, 2012 at 6:24 am Reply
    1. yeah right

      you really know nothing do you…

      July 11, 2012 at 8:05 am Reply
  30. mr passie

    Both bob and goons fuck(-ed) the game.
    Bob fucked the game to better themselves
    Goons fuck the game to make it worse for non goons

    there IS a difference,,,,

    July 11, 2012 at 12:40 pm Reply
  31. Guest

    People posting here clearly have no foresight. Yes, goons blob. Yes, they kill everything that isn't a shade of blue wherever they encounter it. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the persistent overview glitch that happens when massive blobs jump or bridge is just CCP trolling goons. Fact is that the CFC can (and probably will) take over the entire galaxy, or at least most of it…then almost immediately thereafter, they'll fall apart. The only reason that the CFC is still together is because they have charismatic leaders who provide them with a steady stream of targets, goals, and activities. Remove the targets, goals, and activities, and the alliances in the CFC will tear each other apart. Just ask any member of the CFC how they feel about their "allied" alliances and you'll see the cataclysmic implosion in the making. If CFC stands idle for more than a month or 2, it'll spell death. The members will all be at each others' throats and then some ambitious alliances will come in and tear them apart. One of those alliances will probably become the next CFC, and people will be whining about them as the Next Next BoB. So I say this to all who hate the CFC…just wait. It'll grow too big and exhaust its prey soon, then it will die.

    July 11, 2012 at 3:33 pm Reply

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