Ship iteration is here, originally posted at Eve

Dev Blog: Ship Balancing Summer Update

It has been a while since our last Dev Blog about ship balancing: we´ve hosted Fanfest 2012 and released Inferno in the time that's passed. We deployed the first batch of overhauled frigates with Inferno, collected a lot of player feedback and thus gained experience in the process.

Now that we've had a good glimpse of how the new balancing system works in practice, we want to speed things up and deliver the following for winter.

Heavy payload delivery

As part of the effort that started with Inferno, we want to keep working on frigates as a whole; we are fairly satisfied with the iteration work we did on the Tormentor, Punisher, Merlin, Incursus, Rifter and time has come for the other hulls to receive the same amount of love. Here is a brief summary of our current vision:

Executioner, Condor, Atron, Slasher: role dedicated to fast interception with weapon systems that support it – in order, energy turrets, missiles, hybrid turrets, projectile turrets.

Navitas, Bantam, Burst: long range offensive platforms. The Navitas is being overhauled as a drone boat, a role currently lacking among tech 1 small hulls. The Bantam will replace the Merlin as the long range dedicated Caldari sniper. Finally, the Burst still is bit blurry at the moment – considered roles are mobile artillery platform, drone boat or a mix of both.

Inquisitor, Breacher, Kestrel, Tristan: missile based ships – tank, speed, damage will depend on the missile system they use. Two choices on that front, short range with rockets, or long range with light missiles. Race fighting philosophy will most likely dictate engagement range.

Magnate, Heron, Imicus, Probe: strengthening current roles as support frigates. Which mainly means scanning and possibly mini-profession operations, like hacking and codebreaking as well.

Crucifier, Griffin, Maulus, Vigil: truly refocus their roles as disruption frigates. The Cruficier is being changed to a mini-arbitrator (swapping useless turret capacitor use bonus for drone damage). The Griffin has a fine role already, but like the others, will receive a boost. The Maulus improvement consists of having a look at sensor dampening, which was nerfed too heavily in the past, and possibly making it rely more on drones than turrets. The Vigil could be the most combat oriented of the disruption frigates by improving its target painting bonus and creating synergy by coupling it with missiles.

Impairor, Ibis, Velator and Reaper: let’s not forget rookie ships, as they also are lacking at the moment. We want them to be very versatile ships, able to give new players a good taste of what their race ship philosophy is all about, without reaching the efficiency of other tech 1 frigates in any given role.

Barge in on me

Changing the mining frigates to have combat roles made us realize that we need something to replace them. Which lead us to realize how outdated mining barges are. That’s something we want to tackle over the course of the summer as well.

Our goal is simple: each and every single mining barge (and their tech 2 variant) should have an appealing role, and not just be a stepping stone on the way to something better. Players should'nt only aim for the Hulk without considering anything else when doing some hard rock and roll mining. That means playing with the following variables:

Mining output: first and most visible balancing factor, plan is to increase all barge mining output to be within an acceptable margin of the Hulk, not miles behind as it is currently.

Autonomy: mining barges should have proper cargo holds so they not always have to rely on jet cans (without turning them into industrials however). That means giving them large, specialized ore bays where all the ore will automatically go into when mining.

Resilience: another point is to give some of them proper EHP not to be one-shot by anything that even remotely sneezes on them.

As a result we thus get:

New ORE frig: we want this ship to replace current mining frigates as low barrier of entry vessel, but also fulfill high-end gameplay expectations by providing a very mobile platform for mining in hostile space. Lowest mining output, decent ore bay, little to no resilience.

Procurer/Skiff: primarily made for self-defense. Better mining rate than the ORE frig, good ore bay, but capable of having battleship-like EHP.

Retriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Has the largest ore bay, similear to the size of a jet can, second best mining output but less EHP than the procurer mining barge.

Covetor/hulk: ore bay is identical to its current cargo hold, little to average EHP, but best mining output. Basically made for group operations when players have industrials and protection to back them up.

Concept schematics of the new ORE mining frigate – Click picture for full size version

Before we forget, part of what players now call “tiericide” is to look at skill requirements. We are not pleased with how they work specifically with this ship class, since the Hulk is currently only a few hours away from the Covetor in terms of skill training. That is why, after the change, all tech 1 mining barges will now only require the Mining Barge Skill at level 1.

We will most likely add the new ORE frigate skill at 4 as a Mining Barge nested prerequisite though, but remember our motto: if you could fly it before, you can fly it now.

Due to how nested skill requirements work, players who already have the mining barge skill trained WON'T need to train the ORE frigate skill to keep flying their Covetor for example.

Destroyer of Worlds

Destroyers are the next ship class on our to-do list. We acknowledge that they were already tinkered with in Crucible, but they still need some love as a whole. We want to make sure they are balanced against each other before moving on, as the Thrasher and Catalyst seem to stand out over the Coercer and Cormorant as things stand.

We also have another plan with destroyers: just like battlecruisers are used for gang warfare support, we are thinking to provide destroyers with an additional role. Since DUST514 is approaching and we want to forge both games into the same universe, they will receive some advantage for planetary bombardment, which should make them even more popular that they currently are.

But wait, there is more. More ships that is, as we think the destroyer class currently is a little small with only four hulls. That is why we want to introduce new tech 1 destroyers to fill roles that are not yet covered – as such, Amarr / Gallente would receive additional drone boats, while Caldari / Minmatar would be more missile based.

They rebelled, they evolved. They have a plan.

So, when all of this is going out you ask?  These changes will be out by the time the winter expansion hit, which will leave us in a very good shape to start overhauling tech 1 cruisers and battlecruisers next year, possibly earlier if things go well.

As an additional note and a follow-up from our previous balancing Dev Blog, we believe it is good for you to know we will not be changing the Destroyer / Battlecruiser skills for the winter expansion – such changes are to come only after these two ship classes have been properly rebalanced.

That’s it for now people, as usual, we will post feedback threads in Features & Ideas Discussion sub-forum to gather your input when the time comes, so don’t hesitate to drop by and post (constructive) feedback.

– CCP Ytterbium
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  1. space troll


    June 14, 2012 at 3:36 pm Reply
    1. Anon

      Actually… the rumor I heard was that it would be Eve Online : Forge…

      June 15, 2012 at 4:09 am Reply
    2. Rotcrotch

      I want cheap ships dickworm!

      June 15, 2012 at 4:12 am Reply
  2. Face

    2nd, Fuck yes, yes, and fuck yes

    June 14, 2012 at 3:37 pm Reply
  3. Yeahiminedwhat

    Sounds good to me. As an (extremely) ex-indy corp CEO turned pirate I can honestly say that something needs to be done with the mining barges. Glad to see that CCP sees it that way too. Hell, with ore and ship prices these days it almost makes me want to go back… almost.

    June 14, 2012 at 3:47 pm Reply
  4. guest

    The irony is that the ship called "hulk" will be one of the weakest of its class.

    June 14, 2012 at 3:53 pm Reply
    1. harhar

      and smallest ore bay. 😛

      June 15, 2012 at 11:58 am Reply
    2. ToeL

      Skiff with battleship EHP and let us not forget the +2 warp core strength… or will CCP remove the current role bonus of a Skiff and make Mercoxit mining worthless.

      June 15, 2012 at 3:42 pm Reply
      1. Captain Obvious

        He's replying to the irony of calling a ship with no tanking ability to share the same name as a unstoppable raging super hero, not debating stats.

        June 15, 2012 at 5:06 pm Reply
        1. Deals_are_Big

          Also means an unwieldy ship

          June 15, 2012 at 6:09 pm Reply
  5. DeeDee

    Cool sounds like my six botting accounts won't have to worry about being ganked anymore.

    June 14, 2012 at 3:56 pm Reply
    1. guest

      But, please, send us a pic of your negative wallet. A lot of people here will appreciate it.

      June 14, 2012 at 11:42 pm Reply
  6. Bob_the_Bitcher

    Oh great – another ship especially for the Goonz and their lackies to beat up on. This time round the noobs will really Unsub.

    June 14, 2012 at 3:56 pm Reply
    1. Bagehi

      Honestly, ORE frigates would be GREAT for high end mining. Depending on their bonuses at release, those things could be ninja mining godsends.

      June 14, 2012 at 5:46 pm Reply
      1. M1k3y

        Gas mining too possibly, currently there is no specialized gas mining ship and most people I've seen use a ferox.

        June 14, 2012 at 8:10 pm Reply
        1. M1k3y

          I like to suck the gas out of my own ass with my mouth, i had my lower ribs removed so i could do it!

          June 17, 2012 at 9:04 am Reply
          1. Conrad

            Sounds like my 1995. Good year, that one.

            June 20, 2012 at 3:46 pm
      2. Shattershark

        Prices have to grow A LOT for it to become something other another thing to be done for shit and giggles.

        June 14, 2012 at 9:10 pm Reply
        1. Jokus

          With a certain degree of skills and funding, everything in EVE can be done about shit and giggles. And that's why I'm still playing while every other MMO is abandoned sooner or later. I can play for fun and fun alone, instead of senseless grind.

          June 16, 2012 at 12:42 pm Reply
  7. player

    yeah okay.. brilliant.. now fucking make tech minable alredy ffS lawl!! )):

    June 14, 2012 at 4:04 pm Reply
  8. Good thing I wasted a month training for the Hulk… meh.

    June 14, 2012 at 4:05 pm Reply
    1. M1k3y

      Mining barge will have a per level skill bonus, thats what that training was for.

      June 14, 2012 at 8:09 pm Reply
  9. none

    EHP for mining ships? No … that can't be right!

    I'd really like to know what will happen to all the ice, ore, mercox mining bonuses. I'd also like to know if the hulk will be able to survive more than a couple shots from a destroyer.

    Will this new ore bay have a capacity suited to more than 1 cycle of a hulk's T2 miners? Currently, the hold in a hulk needs T2 cargo expanders and rigs and can fill a jet can very quickly.

    June 14, 2012 at 4:07 pm Reply
    1. Bagehi

      Sounds like the Macks/Retrievers are going to be the new high sec mining ship. Reasonable defense, huge bay. Just what the doctor ordered.

      June 14, 2012 at 5:45 pm Reply
      1. gumpin

        retrievers are pretty easy to cross train into too. casual mining while waiting for jumpclones to cycle?

        June 14, 2012 at 8:01 pm Reply
    2. Shattershark

      Mining in battleship already gives you shit yield and great tank. Having a dedicated ship that does the same shouldn't be a problem.

      June 14, 2012 at 9:16 pm Reply
  10. Just Bob

    what about carriers?

    June 14, 2012 at 4:20 pm Reply
    1. herp_de_derp

      What about them?

      June 14, 2012 at 5:18 pm Reply
      1. Please

        Maybe hes asking about changing the prereq from bs 5 to 4? idk.

        June 14, 2012 at 5:30 pm Reply
        1. M_D_

          >.> <.<

          June 14, 2012 at 5:57 pm Reply
        2. hirrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


          June 14, 2012 at 6:10 pm Reply
  11. EN24 Makes Me LOL

    I'm just worried about what they said about the Hulk? These ships really should be able to last longer than they do, but the Hulk to be the least EHP? It should still be buffed period, don't exclude it. Everything else up there is great, but don't leave the Hulk sitting around with the EHP of a untanked cruiser.

    June 14, 2012 at 4:24 pm Reply
  12. TexasFire


    All of this is great, The miners have not seen any love in quite some time. It is long overdue to see something other than the monster haulers that are the Orca and the Rorqual.

    But, the winter expansion will also mark my sixth year as a player of EVE. Most of my oldest and best friends in the game have long since gone bitter-vet and are dormant. There are rare occasions after an expansion that a few may show up to see what is new and changed. But then they are soon gone again.

    "Eve is real" is being rapidly transformed into "Eve is real boring"
    The conflict generators that once drove the excitement in 0.0 space is now a pact of alliances maximizing the profits of their moon goo.

    What is going to happen to this game we all love and hate so much? What is going to bring back the excitement to both the vet and the new player?

    I would jump on the band wagon that the Goons and TheMittani are evil, But then I would be speaking in a contradiction. In the last year. The goons are the only people that seem to be trying to make any difference at all. Their meta-game is without question one of the greatest in any MMO. If it were not for their global motto of grief and tears, I would and could find myself with more admiration.

    On a daily basis now, I struggle to find a reason to even fire up the Eve client. I want to play, I miss the days of old when this was so much more a social game. It is my hope that CCP realizes some of this, I hope to one day see my old friends and wingmen again. It is my hope that Eve does not become a trinket that sits on my shelf and collects dust.

    June 14, 2012 at 4:33 pm Reply
    1. herp_de_derp

      Welcome to the world of the bitter vet my friend.

      June 14, 2012 at 5:17 pm Reply
      1. TexasFire

        So you are saying that I suffer from denial?

        Well Damn!

        June 14, 2012 at 6:43 pm Reply
    2. <img src=""&gt;

      Best post I've seen in a while, sir. I back this train of thought completely.
      Edit: stop redacting my tiny image, it's barely bigger than 200 pixels…

      June 14, 2012 at 8:06 pm Reply
    3. Shattershark

      "What is going to bring back the excitement to both the vet and the new player?"
      Don't know about new player, pretty sure that for vet the answer is "amnesia".

      June 14, 2012 at 9:12 pm Reply
  13. Minerproblem

    Only one problem with that new frigate.. where's the smoker's deck?

    June 14, 2012 at 4:42 pm Reply
    1. ...

      we left the bbq grill at home.

      June 14, 2012 at 11:29 pm Reply
  14. Hengroen

    It brings into balance the risk reward ratio (something miners seem to have forgotten about in eve). Low risk (high tanked, low mining output) high risk (low tanked, high mining output). If you want to do something high risk in eve, do it with friends and share the rewards. If you want to do something low risk do it on your own.

    June 14, 2012 at 4:49 pm Reply
    1. Corteztk

      While I agree the risk reward ratio is important I do have to say that Hulk's still need a ehp buff, possibly a huge one. I want to clarify, I don't mine and will never mine but EVE has changed with the drone region "nerf" and we need miners. Currently Hulks are ridiculously undertanked. They need to be capable of a tank that allows them to be repped when attacked by a small gang (20 or so damage ships). That way mining operation with logi could actually tank the hulks long enough for support to arrive.

      This COULD lead to more and better fights in EVE for REAL objectives. With the way miners are right now….fleet lands…..locks up Hulk… shot. It doesn't lead to fights in defence of miners. I think EVE would be more fun if the Hulk wasn't the first primary because it could actually mount enough buffer that Logi could keep them up.

      June 14, 2012 at 4:59 pm Reply
      1. herp_de_derp

        Hulks should be able to tank belt rats and that's about it. If you want to afk mine, then I want to break out a t1 destroyer and get a killmail. Every gank can be avoided if you PAYED ATTENTION while mining.Well that and if Mittens didn't sponsor an indefinite hulkageddon, but that's besides the point. Stop whining about it, you want to stop getting killed by random neuts, move to nullsec, at least you'll know who's trying to kill you and who isn't.

        June 14, 2012 at 5:16 pm Reply
        1. M1k3y

          Pay attention. To mining. You ever watch grass grow? Its like that.

          Most gankers use cloaky warp-ins so even IF your watching, you have to warp in the time it takes a destroyer to lock a hulk (<2 seconds) or the time it takes a double sebo'd tornado to lock a hulk (<1 second).

          June 14, 2012 at 8:13 pm Reply
          1. herp_de_derp

            I've been mining for 2 years and rarely go AFK. And if you hit dscan once in a while, and see if there happens to be a destroyer mob in close proximity, maybe its time to get aligned.

            June 14, 2012 at 10:27 pm
          2. Cunty

            Yep. I'm shocked at the amount of miners that don't use D-scan and align.
            Also shocked that many run to our bubbles on station even though they have POSes?
            A lot of miners are dumb.

            June 15, 2012 at 2:50 am
          3. Jarod

            plus the time it takes them to come out of warp. you see them come in before they can start to lock. around 4 seconds total for a destroyer i'd say. not sure tho.

            June 15, 2012 at 2:33 am
        2. IRC Grunt

          this just not true. I have always been active when I have been ganked.. Its hard to run from a battleship with smart bombs popping in your face as you try to align out even with a tank on your mack. I agree that for bots and super afkers that they deserve what they get, but how can you as ganker think you are able to determine that fact. You can't, you just kill for fun, so "technology" in game should increase to deter those attacks. If you didn't do it then the bots and afkers wouldn't benefit from the needed changes.

          As far as high sec goes, well high sec is a myth. Nothing is safe in eve, and moving to null is no exception. Only nice thing about null is there are less unknowns. The only thing that is know is every ship and clone has an expiration date.

          But what do I know I'm just a noob miner

          June 14, 2012 at 8:26 pm Reply
          1. herp_de_derp

            And your in IRC.

            June 14, 2012 at 10:25 pm
          2. NullSecHoBo

            Can't refute but disagree with message, so .. shoot the messenger?

            June 14, 2012 at 11:10 pm
          3. herp_de_derp

            I mined in highsec for the better part of 6 months, and null for a year. In my tenure mining I have never once lost a hulk, and I ran 3 accounts at the same time. I had multiple gank attempts, a red or two tackle me in nullsec, but I always survived. Wanna know how? Common sense. If getting ganked is an issue, have an alt sit in the belt and keep 2 shield reppers on you in a t1 cruiser. "But I can't afford a second account because the kids in school took my lunch money." Great! you don't have to. Start a constant stream of trial accounts. If you have a plex laying around, you can use the buddy program and get a free 50 day account for the cost of broker fees.

            Bottom line, there is always a way to protect yourself, and saying your too lazy to do it and CCP should make it easy on me is not an excuse. FLAME ON!

            June 14, 2012 at 11:26 pm
      2. Are you retarded?

        Yeah, a hulk should be able to survive a 20 man gang under logi, A BC CAN'T DO THAT.

        June 14, 2012 at 5:22 pm Reply
        1. ...

          a drake can

          June 14, 2012 at 11:11 pm Reply
          1. Carlos

            rolf. You got a point and so does the tengu. While i am not a miner i have really questioned why something like this was not done earlier. But i am sure this is not the full product yet as it maybe over tanked….I am not sure. We will have to see the final product. But the hole suicide thing was just a joke on the poor eve noob miner XD. I think they will get "some love" this time

            June 14, 2012 at 11:55 pm
      3. Bagehi

        They very clearly have an AFK high sec mining ship coming out. It looks fairly gank-proof. You'll be bringing in less ore/hour, but that's a good thing. There should be benefits to people willing to pay attention and warp out if a threat comes into the belt.

        I'm sorry, but there's no way people were in front of their clients when a handful of flashy pods warped in, followed by an orca, then boarded a bunch of destroyers it tossed out, then locked them up and shot them. Get one of the new skiffs.

        June 14, 2012 at 5:57 pm Reply
        1. Roland_Hova

          There shouldn't be AFK mining anywhere or tanked mining ships. It just promotes more mining bots and stupid people in eve.

          June 14, 2012 at 6:13 pm Reply
          1. teehee

            There shouldn't be mining, the pilot with the last surviving ship wins eve, this will maintain the well established practice of not logging in order to win eve

            June 14, 2012 at 9:06 pm
          2. Shattershark

            There shouldn't be mining that is only made bearable by intoxication, porn, managing 4 accounts at once or being AFK. Since there isn't solution to this (at least not yet), ship which makes AFKing possible is good. Lack of different solution isn't.

            BTW, botters and stupid people in 0.0 alliances already don't care about lack of EHP.

            June 14, 2012 at 9:07 pm
        2. Corteztk

          I think you missed my point. I don't live or do anything in high sec. My comment isn't about high sec. I will more likely be the ganker rather than gankee in most cases as I am purely a combat pilot in EVE.

          To clarify my point is this. Lets say theoretically I land in a belt with 20 hulks, 20 drakes, and 6 scimis VS. my wonderful nano fleet of death. With the current tanking ability of hulks I would one shot all 20 and leave the field, unless i believed i could kill the drakes and logi.

          What I believe would be the "better" scenario would be that the hulks had enough tank that a scimi could keep it alive (clearly if the logi was good, i'm not talking alpha proof) maybe half the tank of a drake if it was fit for tank and not max mining.

          That is all i'm asking make it capable of mounting half a BC tank if fit properly for tank over mining speed.

          June 14, 2012 at 8:28 pm Reply
          1. Bagehi

            You can get 20k EHP tank on a hulk right now with 3 strips on it. I'm sorry, but hulks should be able to warp out before they get ganked if they are paying attention. For those that don't get out, a scimi that is on the ball should be able to keep them alive. Most of the hulks I've seen dead in empire have not had tanks or have had active tanks (worthless to alpha strike), not buffer tanks. From what I've seen, they are dying because they don't have a clue or are straight out AFK.

            June 14, 2012 at 8:49 pm
          2. Sloooooooooooow

            Have you ever flown a hulk? They align to warp at the speed of molasses mixed with concrete.

            June 14, 2012 at 10:01 pm
          3. NullSecHoBo

            Bagehi is right. The align time may be slow, but you will still have enough time to align out even if you're paying minimum attention to local, dir scan etc. And if you have a fleet with designated CAP, man you must suck to get ganked.

            June 14, 2012 at 11:08 pm
          4. Grath

            You'll be able to do that, in skiffs (bs hp levels) and have to mine slightly slower, but you'll have the tankability that you're looking for.

            June 15, 2012 at 1:06 am
      4. @Corteztk

        This point is addressed directly in the Dev Blog …

        – If you want an AFK solo mining ship with the EHP of a Battleship Fly a Procurer or a skiff
        – If you want Maximum Yield – get some Buddies, some Protection and fly in a group with Hulks.

        The point here is that you cannot have your cake and eat it too. There is a trade off for having a supertanked AFK miner – reduced yield.

        June 14, 2012 at 11:42 pm Reply
  15. WTFWF


    June 14, 2012 at 4:57 pm Reply
    1. WTFWF


      June 14, 2012 at 5:04 pm Reply
    2. M1k3y

      Hulks will have low EHP still, its the Skiff that has the built in warpstabs & tank.

      New bait anyone?

      June 14, 2012 at 8:08 pm Reply
  16. XXX

    I love when they say "…which was nerfed too heavily in the past".
    You nerfed so many ships, that noone fly them anymore.
    Guys, you should stop smoking whatever you smoke up there and do it properly once and forever.
    Peace (V)

    June 14, 2012 at 5:00 pm Reply
  17. CareBearStares


    June 14, 2012 at 5:23 pm Reply
  18. WTF

    put on some camo on that ORE Frig and would make a more intimidating Minmatar Stealth bomber

    June 14, 2012 at 6:30 pm Reply
  19. skullair

    on hulks/macks …. a simple change is the power grid on mining barges there currently lower then frigs… and at most fit 1 medium shield extender, why not boost the power grid and at least allow it to fit 1 large shield extender… people are still to stupid to tank but at least allow it for the people who want to..

    June 14, 2012 at 6:38 pm Reply
    1. ...

      haulers could use the same love.

      June 14, 2012 at 11:27 pm Reply
  20. DarthNefarius

    What everyone is missing here is the planned released date of these ships: Soon(TM)

    June 14, 2012 at 7:29 pm Reply
    1. Kratisto

      While the date is undetermined, "the winter expansion" is rather definite. Soon(TM) means year(s) down the line

      June 14, 2012 at 9:45 pm Reply
      1. Shattershark

        They didn't tell which year's winter :)

        June 14, 2012 at 10:20 pm Reply
        1. herp_de_derp

          Winter is Coming!!!

          /end of Game of Thrones References.

          June 14, 2012 at 10:29 pm Reply
  21. guest

    Battleship EHP for a meager 3mil (Procurer), am I the only one thinking about battle barges taking the place of battle badges?

    June 14, 2012 at 8:55 pm Reply
  22. kraz

    why everyone talking about the dumb new mineing ship shit wooohooo new frigs baby o wait what……..

    June 14, 2012 at 10:04 pm Reply
  23. Welfare Office

    wasted time wasted on dumb things. LOL MINING FRIG ARE U FKIN SERIOUS???

    June 14, 2012 at 10:17 pm Reply
    1. Softrotch

      don't be a retard

      June 15, 2012 at 4:02 am Reply
  24. DarthNefarius

    Jesus I put off trainning for the Damnation because CCP was promising a shortening of the skill path. now I read:
    "As an additional note and a follow-up from our previous balancing Dev Blog, we believe it is good for you to know we will not be changing the Destroyer / Battlecruiser skills for the winter expansion – such changes are to come only after these two ship classes have been properly rebalanced.


    June 14, 2012 at 10:22 pm Reply
  25. Sansha Lord

    yes we need to fix frigates…so they can go from lighting cynoes to…lighting cynoes…

    June 14, 2012 at 11:42 pm Reply
  26. ...

    All this iteration looks good to me. T1 frigs have needed love for a long time. I disagree with getting rid of the racial miners though. Perhaps they're not as good as an ORE miner, but they add one thing that is awesome about this game. Variety. If everyone in game flew one ship hull (even if the stats were different) the game would look rather dull. So yes, leave in the racial mining frigs and cruisers. Also, a t2 cov ops mining frig would be stellar. :) And no, I don't mine.

    Another Idea I've had for a while is a true artillery platform. Current artillery is more or less a big sniper gun. It should, however, be indirect fire. So, picture a capitol around the size of a dread. It has to unpack (siege button) to set up it's guns which the pilot decides to do outside the shield of a friendly death star. Target spotted. Friendly fleet engages hostile pos and its support fleet. The fc then orders frigs to target paint targets for the SPG capitol parked near their death star. Once target painted, the targets show up on the SPG's overview which the pilot then proceeds to lock and fire upon. But what is this? Counter attack! Hostile cyno pops up and the tp'ing frigs all die in short order. As targets stop being target painted they drop from the SPG's overview, and incidentally, from the pilots locked targets as well. Shortly after, a small fleet of hostile battleships show up and make short work of the SPG, they are rather fragile.

    I'm really glad to see destroyers getting some love. I haven't flown them very much but I've always liked the idea of them.

    June 14, 2012 at 11:54 pm Reply
    1. Jokus

      Uhm, what you describe is actually a dreadnaught – just that the original version lacks the TP nonsense while it's still useless against sub-caps.

      And indirect fire in space? Really?

      June 16, 2012 at 12:33 pm Reply


    June 15, 2012 at 9:14 am Reply
  28. -A- guy

    did hulkageddon just get nerfed?

    June 15, 2012 at 11:35 am Reply
  29. Gurtrude

    Something that I've never received a proper answer on is why three of the races have T2 destroyers all setup with their 'native' weapon systems – Hybrid, Rocket, Projectile – yet Amarr for some reason or another have been flipped the bird and given rockets instead of lasers as their bonus weapon system stats….what this has to do with the above post is I find it amusing for Amarrs possible 'new' T1 destroyer to carry drones drones which is great and all but leaves the T2 Dic looking like it was never taught by daddy and mummy how to fire a laser…….

    Anyone able to justify this for me ? It's been bugging me since I started 2 years ago….

    June 15, 2012 at 3:32 pm Reply
    1. Guest

      Some amarr ships are bonused for missiles, surely you haven't gone 2 years without noticing the vengeance and the sacrilege?

      If you wish to speak of injustice among the dictor-class, speak of the Eris.

      June 15, 2012 at 3:43 pm Reply
      1. Gurtrude

        Ha yes Hybrid and missile it is odd indeed !

        I know there are some Amarr ships that have missiles but from memory they aren't the only one in their 'class' and the other ship is normally 'true' to Amarr's heritage ie laser AF + missile AG. Where as for the T2 destroyer/Dic there's only one ship in its class so I'd assume the laser variant would be the first to roll out of an Amarr design corp before a missile one.

        Thanks for your reply btw :)

        June 15, 2012 at 3:50 pm Reply
  30. Coyote Laughing

    I'd be happy with pirate/navy faction destroyers that leave the existing ones mostly alone.
    Laser-Drone, Hybrid-drone, Missile-drone, and Projectile-Drone gives 4 pirate faction combinations.

    As or beefing up the frigates, having a tougher destroyer (rather than a faster inceptor) as a Navy version makes more sense to me – leave the mining frigates alone, or give them survey bonuses as a role befitting an explorer. Let the combat frigates take on the target painting and EWAR roles.

    June 15, 2012 at 5:24 pm Reply
  31. Coyote Laughing

    Part 2

    As to the probe class getting Hacking bonuses – that's good, because that makes them different to a mining explorer – although don't forget salvage once you get into those nasty places.

    As to the rookie ships – keep it simple, cap the bonuses to a flat increase – that way experienced players with Frigate V aren't going to be so interested, except maybe as an alternative to paying for shuttles.

    June 15, 2012 at 5:32 pm Reply
  32. Coyote Laughing

    Part 3

    On further reflection, what exactly does an ORE Frigate do that the rest of the other races doesn't?

    Something that would give the mining director bonuses out without the expense of going to an Orca would mean that new players might actually look at Leadership skills.

    This would fit with the survey/explorer role.

    June 15, 2012 at 5:53 pm Reply
  33. Jin

    Griffin is already one of the most OP ships in the game and considerably better than a Kitsune (when considering cost and skills required). Can't wait to see it buffed :)

    June 16, 2012 at 4:39 am Reply
    1. dani lizardov

      1-st maybe try out the Kitsune.

      June 18, 2012 at 12:12 pm Reply
  34. Null sec indy

    I might be the only one, but I love the design of that mining frig. Might buy one just because it looks cool.

    June 18, 2012 at 12:17 pm Reply
  35. Anonymouse

    Put a covert cloak on it and see how serious things get 😀

    June 15, 2012 at 4:00 am Reply
  36. I just don't know

    Agree with that, someone suggested a covert ops capable T2 version, I would for one support that.

    June 15, 2012 at 5:24 pm Reply

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