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TwoTwins is a weekly youtube feature high-lighting Eve events in a commentary fashion, Hosted by Delonewolf. Enjoy and subscribe to them!

TwoTwins in EVE: 60 – Legalise RMT!

Show Contents: PLEX for videocards, fanfest EVE and DUST finals, UK players can pay in pounds, a cool video, Jita Burns, the upcoming hulkageddon and a few thoughts on legalising RMT.

– Delonewolf

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48 Comments

  1. Eve Is Too Hard

    LEGALIZE RMT!!! That way the people who don't want to work at a game that was originally designed for long-term work that pays off can get uber rich overnight!! Please LEGALIZE THIS!! I'm so tired of having to put effort into the game!!

    April 18, 2012 at 7:34 pm Reply
    1. delonewolf

      can't you already do this with plex? You can buy a titan character and a titan through plex right now, if you are willing to spend the cash. And just to clarify, i don't see it happening in EVE, the player base won't support it and i'm not rooting for things to change either. I just think it's an interesting topic to debate.

      April 18, 2012 at 7:56 pm Reply
      1. Wilson Yu

        okay here it is , currently its around 30 dollars for 1 billion. A titan cost 70+ billion so a titan is 2100 dollars. Now….. you also how to pay for the titan character which is around 10-20 billion which is another 600-1000 bucks. So are you saying you will pay 3 grand for a titan pilot? Holy fuck, you just spend a whole month worth of salary on a fucking game. No one will do it unless you are uber rich, i don't think you can spend 3 grand on a fucking big ass ship that is nearly worthless. yes you can blap ships, if you are in a titan fleet, if you are in a allaliance with tons of titans, if you have invested huge amount of time with people you know and trust. Having a titan doesn't make you good in eve, being with people and the experience you have with them, trust, is what's important.

        April 18, 2012 at 8:43 pm Reply
        1. Imigo

          "Having a titan doesn't make you good in eve"

          This is so true, and while I really don't like the idea of pay to win, I've always enjoyed spending a whole lot less money on something than somebody else and still competing at least as well.

          Back in the early days of Paintball I took in my Trracer pump action marker with 100 paintballs for the entire day's play and went up against guys with Automags and Autocockers (high end at the time) with all the trimmings who would use 100 paintballs in a single fire fight. Using lesser equipment meant that I had to be so much sharper and know what I was doing so much more than my opponents; opponents who relied on their bank roll to substitute skill.

          Now imagine hundreds of rich useless morons in Titans with no idea of how the game works, and a hungry welp fleet ready to meet them. Actually, sounds kind of similar to the north right now.

          April 19, 2012 at 12:52 am Reply
        2. Bazinga

          Having a titan might not make me good, but it does make me better then you.

          April 19, 2012 at 1:55 am Reply
        3. Lowie

          i might do it , for some ppl that isnt much cash…

          April 19, 2012 at 5:54 pm Reply
      2. EN Fail

        Blinky Red, nuuff said! No Debate not eh topic Now goo back into the broom closet where you belong, and NEVER speak again. And F**k you EN for publishing this asshat, first botting now this shit, nice to see where your loyalitys lay.

        April 18, 2012 at 11:18 pm Reply
  2. Piss off

    A day late dollar short buddy, btw arn't you suppose to wait till mintchip posts first? Also F**K you foor your thoughts on RMT, Get poded soon and burn piss……

    April 18, 2012 at 7:36 pm Reply
  3. islador

    A legal RMT auction house would be grudgingly accepted by me so long as it obeys the rules of the galaxy. For example, if you buy a ship off the auction house, it is wherever it was put on the auction house, no magic teleporting for money. The ship is not magically poofed out of somewhere, the ship MUST be built through the traditional economy. In my opinion this will result in lots of idiots exploding fancy things without harming the game toooo much.

    April 18, 2012 at 7:55 pm Reply
    1. guest

      If this was going to happen, why wouldn't CCP just move to a free to play model?

      April 18, 2012 at 8:24 pm Reply
      1. Wilson Yu

        cause if that were the case, how the heck are they going to make money? Remember when ccp tried microtransaction? didn't go that well did it?

        April 18, 2012 at 8:40 pm Reply
        1. M_D_

          "Once the item store was introduced, revenues from item sales alone were four times larger than revenues from sales of TF2 itself, and after the free-to-play transition was finished, overall revenue was up 12 times higher than monthly TF2 sales were. "
          http://gamasutra.com/view/news/164922/GDC_2012_Ho

          That is how you ignorant smuck. It is allready a well established fact a F2P model can make you shitloads of money with micro-transactions. However seeing how , ahum, well the EVE playerbase responded to the vanity store…
          Then again, CCP totally screwed that up themselves.

          April 18, 2012 at 11:34 pm Reply
        2. Scar

          CCP would earn a certain percentage of the sell on the market. If things are planned carefully and CCP gets all the legal issues out of the way I can see this being huge. I for one welcome our CCP RMT Overlords. Living off isk is a long time dream of mine.

          April 18, 2012 at 11:47 pm Reply
    2. tarder

      It doesn't follow "the rules of the galaxy" if CCP starts selling ships. One of the main pillars in EVE is that every ship is made by players. Ok, there are exceptions (usually totally useless celebration gift ships from CCP and the couple frigates you get in your tutorial mission set), but they are same for every player.

      April 18, 2012 at 11:49 pm Reply
      1. islador

        An auction house does not in anyway mean CCP will poof ships out of nowhere. Its one of those unexplained details, thus the reason I based my statement upon a clarification of those details.

        April 19, 2012 at 3:24 am Reply
  4. pay to win

    Normally when someone says something completely idiotic about eve people like to say "Go play WoW"

    But when talking about pay to win, I think it's more appropriate to tell this dude to "Go play Maple Story" or any of the other godawful pay to win grind fests out there.

    Also I am still not impressed with "Man Mintchip" here. "Lone Wolf" sounds like a 12 year old trying to think up a cool Counter Strike username in the late 90s. The generic speed metal intro is dumb, not dubstep bad, but still just kind of dumb. And the "look how badass I am" intro video is you warping into a PVE mission complex in an expensive ship. Have a video of you warping into a fleet fight in an expensive ship and maybe I'll be impressed.

    April 18, 2012 at 8:11 pm Reply
  5. seph

    can snot shot give his thoughts

    April 18, 2012 at 8:48 pm Reply
  6. No one important

    If RMT was legal, then PLEX wouldn't be the mechanism used for trading goods for real world money. With PLEX, CCP effectively gets a cut of the action (technically, they get a one-time stipend in exchange for introducing an item used for this purpose, but which incidentally has real-world value in the form of game-time).

    April 18, 2012 at 9:32 pm Reply
  7. Anonymous

    Game. Game. Game. EvE Online is a game. Game meaning you come here for fun, to get away from real life if only for a bit with like minded people. If RMT becomes legit, the game will degrade. There are already those who take pixels too serious. Giving legit lazy fatties who can't put the twinkies down long enough to find a real job a reason to get serious will only cripple the game down to a very ugly place to be. The only upside is maybe they will die of a heart attack and stop consuming oxygen that oculd be used for a better purpose.

    April 18, 2012 at 9:46 pm Reply
  8. Banden

    There is a fundamental flaw in your train of thought, Diablo 3 is NOT in any way a competitive game, not like Eve online is. Comparing the two and saying that the same model could work is utter nonsense. Have you ever tried games that have RMT like this? Balance is thrown waaaay off and thats whats important. PLEX is just to the line, it has benefits, it helps curb actual RMT, it benefits players who dont want to or cant pay-2-play, it doesnt screw up the economy and it doesnt put more currency into the game. what happens if you introduce more currency into the system? Huh? what happens when players are allowed complete control of how much currency goes into the game? You should be able to figure this one out…

    Oh and I like the part where you said that what is essentially monopoly money has real value, which is missing the point entirely, even if you could exchange monopoly money for video cards, it doesnt mean that monopoly money is exchangeable for real money. It certainly doesnt mean that they should be. Look at it like this, you get a coupon for some store or restaurant, whatever, its fairly common you know. The coupon is exchangeable at the store for goods which of course have real actual value, but the coupon is not exchangeable for money, why? Because its just a coupon and the store defines what the coupon is exchangebable for. In the case of the video cards, PLEX is being used in the same way as this, like a coupon.

    In any case, implimenting legal RMT would not only trash the economy, it would cause a massive player exodus of epic proportions and you can kiss Eve online goodbye.

    April 18, 2012 at 9:57 pm Reply
    1. Ignorant

      "even if you could exchange monopoly money for video cards, it doesnt mean that monopoly money is exchangeable for real money."

      Go talk to an IRS employee or someone from the taxing authority in your country. You'll soon be singing a different tune.

      April 18, 2012 at 10:46 pm Reply
      1. Banden

        I happen to know an IRS employee, so yeah Ill go ask. But I dont see how the IRS plays into this, I really dont. So yeah, I think you are the ignorant one.

        April 18, 2012 at 11:05 pm Reply
      2. Not so Ignorant

        I have in my hands right now a voucher from McDonalds.
        – It entitles me to one serving of Fries
        – It has a small footnote that states its cash value as 0.02 US cents.

        Please stop spouting the same mindless gibberish as every other "tax expert" on this forum.

        April 19, 2012 at 12:09 am Reply
        1. ViperRum

          Yeah, it is $0.02 so you wont owe much in taxes. If you get a "windfall" like that the IRS doesn't give a shit because that kind of thing is so small enforcement costs are much larger than any extra revenue they might get (i.e. if you 10,000 of them)

          However, we aren't talking something with a dollar value of $0.02, but something closer to…oh…10,000 times that. Again, you'd probably only be on the hook for $20-$40 bucks, if that, depending on your bracket. Again, the IRS probably wont care. But if this program is expanded and people could use it to cash out of the game…..

          Right now it is a one-off thing, so probably no big deal.

          April 19, 2012 at 12:57 am Reply
        2. Banden

          My point is that the tax arguement is pointless and stupid. Whatever the isk, the monopoly money, is exchangeable for, it is for CCP to determine. You cant sell ISK for real life money because its not something that belongs to you, there is no actual ownership on your part. If items that are exchangeable for money changes hands then its subjected to tax, thats besides the point. We all know that ISK have actual real value, but legally? Come on, its monopoly money people.

          And I keep saying this, MT in games only actually works to earn money for the developer because there are people on the internet with too much money and too little sense. Its not good for the game and its not good design. Period.

          April 19, 2012 at 2:26 am Reply
      3. ViperRum

        This. If you got a video card you are on the hook for the taxes. The Dev Blog even noted this. Talk to the people who win cars on game shows, or the people who got gift cars from Oprah.

        And if you are thinking, "Meh it is just a $200 video card," yeah I had issues with my taxes where a $5 error meant I had to send the IRS a check for a $1.*

        So here is the deal. CCP likes this program. It was an amazing success from their point of view. So they expand it. Now a player who has lots and lots of isk (some of those Eve trillionaires) and he figures, shit this will be great. So he buys up a butt load of PLEX. Trades them all for video cards (remember the program is now expanded not a redo of the initial program). He throws the crards up on ebay and gets say $175 on average. Now he has cashed out some (or all of his isk) for real world cash. Maybe alot of cash…maybe $10,000 worth.

        The IRS will definitely want a word with this player. Oh and look, the Eve economy has trillions and trillions in it. And players are beavering away every day making more and more. And the U.S. is having something of a bit of a fiscal crisis. And who cares if a few nerd spreg lords get hit with a tax? Senator Big Bucks or Congressman Whore? Probably not.

        Maybe it is a long shot, but still…it isn't outside the realm of possibility.

        I mean really, we have fucking RMTers out there making even more money than this. You don't think they pay taxes? Granted they are violating the contract on this, but here is CCP making an explicit program that could tie ISK to having real world value. What made the GTC/PLEX thing work prior to this was that you were only selling game time, in exchange for funny money that had no value. Not anymore. This program could be the one thing that creates that connection because those cards do have real world value outside of a make believe world.

        I really hope I'm wrong on this. I like the game and don't want to see it ruined or suddenly have some IRS dolt telling me my jump freighter means I owe more taxes…

        *Okay, I think technically, $1 was small enough that I really didn't have to, but WTF, send the $1 and avoid any further hassles.

        April 19, 2012 at 12:53 am Reply
    2. TEST

      That thought is flawed as Diablo 3 is going to have a multiplayer pvp aspect to it as well. So yes Diablo 3 WILL be competitive

      April 19, 2012 at 1:23 am Reply
      1. Banden

        oh yeah, its going to have PVP, I dont see how PVP makes the game competitive. Do I have to point out here that there is a difference? I dont see Diablo 3 becoming even remotely as competitive as Eve is, in any aspect. Really, do you?

        April 19, 2012 at 2:32 am Reply
  9. Shiwaz

    Are you fucking kidding me??? People commenting this post are srsly ASKING CCP to legalize RMT?!?!? So not being able to buy a titan pilot and a titan without any form of effort AT ALL is a bad thing??? Yes you can allready do this with plex, but only very few people are gona pay 3 grand for a ship in a game. THIS IS A GOOD THING PEOPLE AND WILL KEEP EVE GOING FOR MANY YEARS!!!

    April 18, 2012 at 10:19 pm Reply
  10. Mokky

    I for one like pay for win. cant afford it? GTFO then.

    April 18, 2012 at 11:45 pm Reply
  11. Nuckster 1920

    Good discussion. Still can't decide how I feel about this issue.

    April 19, 2012 at 4:50 am Reply
  12. guest

    Legal ganking&scamming or legal RMT. You cannot have it both ways.

    April 19, 2012 at 4:59 am Reply
  13. duh

    CCP is a business with intellectual property.

    Legal "RMT" is RL money that is received by CCP for something in game; Illegal "RMT" is RL money paid to a user for something in game. The consensus is that the eve community will only tolerate RL –> PLEX –> ISK –> Shopping. Industry must be included in the RL to PLEX funnel. If not, then EvE will take that last step towards "pay to play" and mining will be useless.

    April 19, 2012 at 5:03 am Reply
  14. Issklar

    Legalise RMT? Go kill yourselfs, faggots

    April 19, 2012 at 8:16 am Reply
  15. Random Miner

    Though it was very difficult to understand him, I thought it was hilarious how he said only a small vocal minority complains about hulkageddon, so it should be ignored… issues in eve are only ever complained about by a small vocal minority… lmao

    April 19, 2012 at 10:20 am Reply
    1. CareBearStares

      Whenever anyone uses the term 'minority' to reinforce their point, automatically their premise is suspect.

      April 19, 2012 at 5:56 pm Reply
  16. yep

    high sec pubbys going to pub…

    April 19, 2012 at 10:29 am Reply
  17. Akrasjel Lanate

    EVE is not Diablo

    April 19, 2012 at 11:10 am Reply
  18. Zish

    please no rmt.. it will make leading corps/alliances etc much more profitable and will mostly not benefit the average eve player

    April 19, 2012 at 11:16 am Reply
  19. legalise rmt and i drop all my subs plain and simple. the game would be full of rich pubbies with expensive ships paid for by rmt. anyone who has invested years into this game would basically get a big FU from ccp.

    April 19, 2012 at 1:55 pm Reply
    1. Some guy

      I don' like RMT'ing either but to be fair "rich pubbies" can already buy all the expensive ships they want by buying plexes.

      April 19, 2012 at 2:02 pm Reply
      1. true but the money goes back into ccp which allows them to fix bugs and develop new stuff.

        if rmt went to players instead of ccp the game would suffer alot as bugs would take much longer to fix.

        April 19, 2012 at 2:04 pm Reply
        1. Fishfillet

          You clearly don't know how plex works.

          April 19, 2012 at 2:40 pm Reply
    2. droljica

      " invested years into this game" ?!?!

      Get a real life ffs

      April 19, 2012 at 5:40 pm Reply
    3. CareBearStares

      I thought you were onto something up untill I hit 'pubbies', then I lost all confidence.
      'Pubbies', I do not think this word means what you think it means…

      April 19, 2012 at 5:55 pm Reply
    4. terrible idea

      Actually I think it'd be the other way round.

      New players probably wouldn't turn their isk back into cash because their in game income is so low. A PLEX costs $15 and gives you about 500 mil. What's faster for you? Going t a real job and making $15 or playing eve and making 500 mil.

      What this would do is turn nullsec alliances into businesses. Remember that Red Alliance guy who paid for his car with tech moons? Now imagine that but more public and every coalition in null doing it. They'd exist for nothing but gathering up tech moons and making sure they never get invaded.

      If you think the CFC setting every power player blue is bad now. Wait until they can get IRL money out of it.

      April 19, 2012 at 8:38 pm Reply
  20. randomcomment

    Legalize RMT and they'd have to get a bank license and apply to banking regulations. Fun.

    April 19, 2012 at 9:20 pm Reply
  21. Hykke

    I don't think RMT will become legal for tax reasons.
    Whenever you shoot a rat, and get isk that can be exchanged for real money you're getting taxable income from CCP.
    CCP would also be forced to withold VAT on all market and contract goods exchanges…
    believe me having RMT remain illegal is much easier for everyone!

    April 19, 2012 at 10:09 pm Reply

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