EVE University graduate. Drama Llama. Covert operations pilot. Poetic Stanziel has been very active in the blogging community bringing views from seasoned high-sec pilots, we please to share his stories and views on current Eve Online events and invite you to read more stories from his Poetic Discourse blog.

Poetic Discourse: How neutral does EVE University get to be?

After the success of the University’s lowsec camp in the Hagilur pocket, they’ve decided to create a nullsec camp. That should prove to be popular with many of the longer term members who don’t quite know what to do with all their skill points.

(Some preamble to begin. Scroll down to Neutrality, if you want to get to the meat of the post.)

Caveats

There are, of course, caveats to any such move. The lowsec camp already decreased PvP roams via the Ivy League Navy [ILN] (the University’s PvP department) by an estimated 50%. The lowsec camp runs unto itself and is not under the auspices of the ILN. Most of the skilled pilots in the University, including ILN officers and taskforce coordinators, moved to the pocket for the frequent good fights available in the area. The ILN has since became a shell of its former self, its experienced fleet commanders off in Hagilur fighting pirates. The newbs, too new to feel comfortable roaming in lowsec, were left without much in the way of PvP training. Audio classes galore, but practical experience became slim pickings.

Now with a nullsec camp being constructed, every last dreg of PvP experience will either be in the lowsec camp or the nullsec camp. The ILN will be on life support. Practical newbie PvP training will be something folks reminisce about: “Remember back when the Uni used to run fleets out of Aldrat?

Whereas newbies are quite capable of operating in lowsec, it’s certainly not the culture in the University to suggest to any new player to head to lowsec. University members either avoid lowsec for most of their EVE careers, due to fears instilled early on, or the braver ones eventually find out that all the fear-mongering was just a bunch of hooey, discovering the joys of the lower security systems on their own.

There are a lot of potential benefits to the University setting up a camp in nullsec (just as there have been since setting up camp in lowsec), but it all depends on how they handle the situation, the inevitable brain drain that’s going to occur. The Hagilur pocket is close to University operations (seven jumps). So it’s logistically easy for the experienced pilots to still take part in newbie training. The brain drain, due to the lowsec pocket, while obvious and pronounced it did not damage the newbie experience. The issue that’s been affecting practical PvP training for the University newbies is time, not logistics. If you’re having fun hunting pirates, you have less time to teach.

The new nullsec camp, though, is going to be deep in Test Alliance Please Ignore [Test] space. Fountain, to be exact. Granted it will be in an NPC pocket within Fountain, but no easy trip in and out. Forty or so jumps from University homebase. (Sure sure, jump clones exist, but with the twenty-four timer, for only a couple hours of lessons nullsec dwellers are going to find it hard leaving the fun, to be locked down in highsec for a full day.) The brain drain will be pronounced and severe. Practical PvP experience given to those remaining in highsec? It’s going to disappear entirely.

Neutrality?

So, why set up the first nullsec camp in Fountain? And how does this affect the University’s much vaunted neutrality?

The arrangement. The University gets access to all of Test’s jump bridge network. They get access to Test’s markets and stations. They are free to operate within Fountain, with Test as a friendly blue neighbour. A friendly blue neighbour that is likely more than willing to help the University when overwhelmed by existing occupants (Godfathers and others.) In exchange, Test alliance gets nothing (or so the official stance would suggest.)

Of course, the reality is that Test gets quite a bit. They have a new channel of recruitment. If you’re an EVE University graduate, and your intention is to head to nullsec, where might you start your alliance/corporation search? Test alliance, of course.

Test alliance also gets another corporation to help defend the homeland. The official University line is that they will not get involved in any Test conflicts. That may be true with respect to conflicts that occur outside of Fountain space. But let’s say that Red Alliance, at some future date, decides to attack Fountain. Is the University going to tuck tail, evacuate all their assets back to safe space, not firing a single shot to defend their new friends and their new home away from home? I would doubt it very much. That’s not a particularly grateful attitude.

So, defence of the homeland. Test gets to train up a home defence fleet under the auspices of charity and education. Classes. Guest lectures. Joint fleets. Training according to Test standards. After all that Test has done to accommodate the University in Fountain, it’s a tad hard to believe that the Uni would abandon their new friends if a time of need happened to arise.

Test also gets a brand-new partial pet alliance. Not the entire alliance, but certainly all of their PvPers.

The University sets Test to blue standings. Test sets Ivy League to blue standings. That’s the given. What of the rest of the Clusterfuck Coalition [CFC]? According to the University, Goonswarm standings will not change (they’ll continue to remain as is, which in nullsec means targets.) Exactly how is this going to work? It doesn’t happen often, but Test and Goonswarm do fleet together for non-PvP activities. Ripping through missions. Ratting. Incursions.

So, a Uni fleet is out on a roam. Finds a nice juicy Goonswarm target, perhaps a ratting Tengu, and pops it. That Tengu was part of a Test fleet. What does Test do? A couple of those incidents and it won’t be long before the University has to set all of CFC to blue standings (if they wish to remain in Fountain, of course.) The University becomes a member of CFC, by proxy.

What exactly about any of that sounds neutral? I don’t care if the University is neutral or not, but don’t pretend that they aren’t compromising their principles. The moment they set any of the nullsec sovereignty alliances to a blue standing, they are doing away with any notion of neutrality. Pretending to the high ideals is just whitewashing the obvious. They’ve chosen a side in the sovereignty wars. And that side is the CFC.

Syndicate

If the University is serious about its neutral standings, why would they not set-up shop in Syndicate? It’s an extremely active NPC nullsec region. It houses some of the most experienced and successful small-gang PvP alliances in the game (Agony, Rooks and Kings, Rote Kapelle, Clockwork Pineapple.) If nullsec PvP experience and training is the goal of a University nullsec camp, then no better place to be than Syndicate.

Poetic Stanziel

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48 Comments

  1. Wolfman

    Yes. Come to syndicate. More people to shoot. Always good.

    April 11, 2012 at 7:46 pm Reply
    1. Pineapple

      We would love the opportunity to help teach the ivy league

      April 11, 2012 at 10:39 pm Reply
  2. OH NOES!!! The Middle MGMT Dinosaur has been desecrated with the EVE-UNI logo!! BLASPHEMY!!!

    <img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PyYyW0kKgO4/T36JLGbTmlI/AAAAAAAAAuo/Qc1p1jKjOGs/s1600/test_euni.jpg&quot; />

    April 11, 2012 at 7:48 pm Reply
    1. Tool

      U also forgot to say "Die Ni**** Die1"

      April 11, 2012 at 8:44 pm Reply
    2. Matalok

      The worse part about it is you used the bad PNG version from the old auth header. Lazy fucker, at least put some work into it and use the proper vector version.

      April 12, 2012 at 1:18 am Reply
      1. If I could have found it, I would have.

        April 12, 2012 at 1:33 am Reply
        1. TestGruntBestGrunt

          Try this:
          https://wiki.pleaseignore.com/images/0/0d/Middle-

          Dunno if it's under auth draconian control.

          April 12, 2012 at 11:50 am Reply
  3. Shattershark
    April 11, 2012 at 7:49 pm Reply
    1. M1k3y

      Lolwut?

      April 11, 2012 at 10:05 pm Reply
      1. Shattershark

        "Oh no, not another post about EVE Uni"

        April 12, 2012 at 2:30 pm Reply
  4. Fuckin with CFC

    "Test gets to train up a home defence fleet…"

    Wow. Going to TEST for pvp training. That's kind of like picking your math tutor from the "special ed" program.

    April 11, 2012 at 7:50 pm Reply
    1. Gumpin

      test is a step up for the e-uni.

      even broski is a step up for them

      April 11, 2012 at 8:02 pm Reply
      1. TestGruntBestGrunt

        …Test is actually a step DOWN from basically everything.

        April 12, 2012 at 11:30 am Reply
    2. UcanDoBetter

      Agreed, of all the people to climb into bed with they're considering throwing their sheep to the most offensive and childish local trolls in the entire Eve universe.

      They're also considering what some would say ending what E-UNI stands for and it's neutral status forever, and others might say growing into the next phase of it's life kinda like a butterfly… aww. Shame to lose E-UNI and what they do for new players but it's their choice. They managed to enjoy their time in low sec and now they want to go to null most likely to escape the gate sentries and security status hits that they probably don't want to have to fix with pve. If they can have fun in low sec without gettin pushed around too much then they can easily have fun in syndicate or any of the npc nulls out there, If they win a few fights and gain a little respect out there blues will probably come naturally which has got to be a hell of a lot better than working all those years to build up a pretty decent alliance and then throw it all away for blue standings with Test in the hopes of a future blue with GOONS ffs!?

      Don't do it guys, I seriously thought it was a troll because of Tests reputation, and if it was it was a smart move on Tests behalf, alliances like E-UNI with a fully rounded pilots that can fight and mine and produce is what the new blueprint of a 0.0 corp will be after the latest round of updates, you could find yourself in a very good position in a short amount of time unless you get cheated out of it by unscrupulous douchebags attempting to fill their dog shit blog and stroke their e-penis.

      April 12, 2012 at 1:38 pm Reply
    3. Captain Salmon

      As a member of TEST I can confirm this statement.

      April 13, 2012 at 10:01 pm Reply
  5. stevietopsiders

    Implying that E-Uni teaches PvP at all.

    Implying that it E-Uni neutrality matters.

    April 11, 2012 at 7:53 pm Reply
  6. TESTdude

    The NPC pocket in Fountain is a great area for small-medium gang roams. The inhabitants (G0dfathers and former G0dfathers, GaNg_BaNg_TeAm) are pretty tenacious and truly see NPC Fountain (or Fountain Core as they call it) as THEIR space. They make absolutely ludicrous amounts of isk runnng serpentis missions in the pocket.

    A few weeks ago, after TEST returned from Geminate, the NPC inhabitants were absolutely shat on. Literally every single g0dfather POS in fountain was destroyed, their missioners were constantly hot dropped, and every night they were station camped into NPC stations. Membership dropped, and (after a rather embarrassing carrier loss) the Bulgarian group split from g0dfathers and formed gaNg_BaNg_TeAm (a truly masterful name if I've ever seen one).

    And then, TEST left. The Tenal invasion began, and the g0dfathers put their POS's back up, and went back to hunting TEST ratters. No one truly wants to destroy the g0dfathers; and indeed, it would be impossible due to their somewhat fanatic attachment to NPC fountain. TEST views them as annoying at worst, and a nice group to fight and train newbies against at best. But installing the Uni there would put a consistent pressure on them. Additionally, if the Uni does some serpentis grinding, they can make an enormous amount of isk to supplement what I'm sure wlll be considerable initial losses.

    As for the CFC, coalition members typically don't move through fountain. And they certainly don't move through the Fountain Core. Fountain is the end of the road; regions like cloud ring, fade, pure blind, deklein see frequent coalition travel because they are in the middle of coalition space. Fountain is actually rather remote.

    April 11, 2012 at 7:57 pm Reply
    1. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

      You also forget to mention that they will be centered in NPC Fountain, which is independent of the people who own the sov around it.

      April 11, 2012 at 9:36 pm Reply
    2. Agodfather

      Pretty fair comments, only thing is Bulgs and GF did not split because of a carrier kill.Staffo flies them like your lads fly Drakes, also they are funded by Testies Tengu kills. I think that one was from your Freighter Pilot loss in 6vdt ( go to dotlan check brutal genius / rise of tangra 2011 they just joined up again more bulgs in the corps so they wanted to run ops in Bulgarian and speak thier native tongue which is fair enough in my eyes we are all still +10
      POS's and SOV we don't care about you should know only reason we bother to put them up is to bring your lazy asses over here outta the anoms for a bit of pew pew. :-)
      As for loads leaving thats just not true? Goonies war decked us so we moved up to EC for a week or two camped Jita for fun and sure we war decked your lads so we didn't have to be in two places at once 😉
      EVE UNI moving in i think they should have been given a station system away from CORE just till they get the basics of 0.0. I myself personally will go easy on them till they get the hang of things but as soon as they start camping gates or roaming I will have assumed they are ready then its open season.

      April 12, 2012 at 5:00 am Reply
  7. Bocephus_Morgen

    Opinion piece from somebody who doesn't know anything, move along.

    April 11, 2012 at 8:06 pm Reply
  8. Cian Korwin

    Really, its not that serious. You wear a tin hat also?

    April 11, 2012 at 8:09 pm Reply
  9. The 99%

    you are incorrect in your assessment of standings. It isn't a big deal. Fountain is a bit of a world unto itself, and TEST has a very interesting structure to deal with standings conflicts. To make it simple, they don't. NOT BLUE SHOOT IT! We all know this guideline, but in TEST it is more than a guide line, more like a religion.

    For the most part the TEST/Goons fleets are not run in Fountain, and Mittens wants Goons in Goon space to defend and attack the north. That combined with TEST's need for income and the complete shit space (for alliance income) that is Fountain in general means that TEST spends much of its time deployed (other than when G0dfathers gets too uppity and needs to be put back in their place). That solves most conflicts before they start, but again, if one does start.. NBSI motherfuckers.

    What you don't note in this article is that TEST doesn't live in Fountain alone, and the standings offer to EVE Uni isn't unique. The 99% have been living in fountain for a few months now under the same standings as EVE Uni will be working under. They are blue to those living in Fountain, but not outside of it (with the exception of FA). If they see a Goon, they WILL shoot him. The exception is on JBs, again, to cut down on conflict.

    I wish EVE Uni luck in this. NPC Nulsec war fare is very different from low sec and from even Nul really. I don't know how much experience EVE Uni has in wars where combat losses don't mater, and it is a moral battle where attacking the enemy's will to fight is the objective.

    April 11, 2012 at 8:09 pm Reply
    1. Sold

      Why would anyone down-vote this response? It's accurate. I forsee 99% and Eve-Uni flying together a lot. This will also flesh out the intel channel for all of us. Seems like a good idea from my point of view.

      April 12, 2012 at 4:58 am Reply
  10. itisverynice

    Well played TEST, well played.

    April 11, 2012 at 9:10 pm Reply
  11. NullSecHoBo

    Good job summarizing the Uni forum thread where there's a vigorous ongoing discussion about the merits of this move.

    Your point about endangering their stance of neutrality is sort of the obvious thing that jumps out, but the Uni is a learning institution, and lack of actual 0.0 experience was a common issue with their graduates. TEST is not who I would have guessed they would partner with, imbecilic f*cktards that they generally are, but I have to grudgingly admit that it's highly unlikely that other alliance would host them in a similar way..

    As for the rest of your concerns, don't sweat your pretty head about them. Uni will be meagre meatshields at best if they were to ever come to TEST's home defense. And unlikely other CFC alliances will set them blue either – getting into the Uni is the easiest way to get a spy/awoxer in your system. And … they're way down there in Fountain. Who goes to Fountain =P

    Enjoy the skinny dipping in 0.0, Uni, and hopefully more of you graduate and move down here sooner! Lot's of fun to be had, no matter which side you're on.

    April 11, 2012 at 9:23 pm Reply
  12. u srs?

    Who? Never heard of them.

    April 11, 2012 at 9:43 pm Reply
  13. WtfExploit

    So explain to me why the rest of the cfc would set ILN blue…. cause i seriously doubt the loss of some dumb ass ratter is going to send any of the diplo's rushing to jabber pings…

    April 11, 2012 at 9:54 pm Reply
  14. Fabio Testie

    RE: Syndicate – "It houses some of the most experienced and successful small-gang PvP alliances in the game" <- thats probably why they don't want to go there, retard.

    April 12, 2012 at 12:13 am Reply
    1. Good place to learn, though.

      April 12, 2012 at 1:34 am Reply
      1. NullSecHoBo

        No, it's a terrible place to "learn".

        April 12, 2012 at 2:31 am Reply
      2. Tallian

        Only if be 'learn' you mean 'be humiliated and have your will broken'.

        When all you do is get blown up with little to no successes, you don't learn, you just stop playing.

        April 12, 2012 at 7:13 am Reply
        1. It's also no fun stomping all over people that don't know anything. I'm sure Rote, Rooks, Pineapple, and Agony would run some classes and courses for the Uni, if for no other reason than to up the Uni's game, to create some small challenge.

          If TEST are so terrible at PvP, what the hell is the Uni going to learn there, since they are terrible at PvP too.

          April 12, 2012 at 2:24 pm Reply
          1. Tallian

            TEST use tactics compatible with the way the UNI fights. It relies more on FC skill and numbers than individual pilot skill. Rote, RnK, etc focus on smaller numbers packing a bigger punch, which requires exploiting every mistake your enemy makes ruthlessly. Its hard to learn against an enemy like that, and very easy to break.

            Additionally, learning to pvp against a terrible opponent(not saying TEST is terrible, they can be alot of fun to fight against, but they can be terrible) helps build confidence in pvp newbs, which is a huge amount of what you need to learn to pvp.

            I speak as a member of the CFC, and as someone who has fought both against and with TEST.

            April 12, 2012 at 2:42 pm
  15. CFC member

    TO ALL GRADS BACK THE FUCK UP AND LOOK AT WHAT YOUR JOINING ……ITS FUCKING TEST join anyone else in the CFC if your going to pvp because they blow up their own guys for fun

    April 12, 2012 at 12:50 am Reply
    1. TestGruntBestGrunt

      As long as the newbros influx keep going strong in the whole CFC, it's ok.

      TEST has no particular drive for being the only newbie friendly ally of the bunch. Actually, we love all our coalition newbros, regardless of where they want to kickstart their careers.

      Fountain is a playground for them. When they grow up, they're free to knock to any ally's door.

      April 12, 2012 at 11:45 am Reply
    2. Tallian

      We all blow up our own for fun, dude.

      April 12, 2012 at 2:46 pm Reply
  16. Poastin Toaster

    wow. npc fountain. thats going to work.

    /sarcasm

    April 12, 2012 at 1:15 am Reply
  17. DarthNefarius

    Funny I saw an ILN fleet in the Hi Sec Incursionsin GALL yesterday doing Assault sites. Doesn't sound much like PvP to me (but I did D-Scan a few dead executioners inside the site. They wouldn't do the NCN's just the OCF's & NCS's as far as I could tell )

    April 12, 2012 at 1:50 am Reply
    1. TestGruntBestGrunt

      Eve Uni is about teaching the game at large, not just PvP.

      April 12, 2012 at 11:41 am Reply
  18. Carl Sagan

    PS, why do you have such a hard-on for E-UNI? This is like the 6th anti E-UNI article you have written.

    April 12, 2012 at 4:21 am Reply
    1. Tallian

      Look at his posting history on the Eve-o boards.

      Its an obsession.

      April 12, 2012 at 7:12 am Reply
      1. Dr Livingstone

        Easy enough to understand. Poetic is Gil Renard.

        April 12, 2012 at 3:45 pm Reply
  19. WTFMONKEY

    Just another player pretending I don't care by posting an ANGRY COMMENT about OTHER PEOPLE

    April 12, 2012 at 5:55 am Reply
  20. gerard

    This article is inaccurate at best and moronic at worst.

    April 12, 2012 at 6:29 am Reply
  21. Derp

    Dreddit was blue to Eve Uni for about a year and a half, until they did something stupid and we reset them.

    April 12, 2012 at 12:52 pm Reply
  22. Zeroniss

    EVE University had been going through a rough patch where their PVP is concerned, and the Null Sec Camp was supposed to to reinvogorate that.

    Personally I don't see the problem and I think this article is a lot of smoke with very little fire. Yes, intermingling will occur, but at the end of the day, only those members inclined to join a community like TEST will join TEST. There won't be any false advertising.

    April 12, 2012 at 6:18 pm Reply
  23. powers

    Not Blue: Shoot it. I hope test takes eve uni guys on their roams. PLEASE do. I will pick off the not blues.

    April 13, 2012 at 6:37 am Reply
  24. suspect bystander

    implying that eve uni dont have a graduate corp….

    April 14, 2012 at 8:54 am Reply

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