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Jester’s Trek: Proposal – Tender

So, CCP said in the recent ship role devblog that they’re looking for new destroyer-class ships.  It just so happens that I have an idea for a destroyer class ship that might be amusing, particularly for small-gang roams in null-sec space.  During World War II, two types of support ships were Seaplane Tenders and Submarine Tenders.  The purpose to these ships was to offer refueling, rearming, and repair services for those platforms when far from a friendly port.

I propose a ship that would offer a similar service.  The details are below.  If you have comments, please post them.  As I’ve said before, EVE players are sometimes not that good at seeing the obvious holes in their own proposals.  So if you see a few holes in this one, please let me know.  So here it is, a formal proposal for the idea of a…

Destroyer Class Tender

Introduction

The biggest annoyance with being behind enemy lines in null-sec is the massive advantage granted by those that live there by the stations.  They are able to refit, repair, rearm, change ships, and perform the myriad of functions available at a station.  The roaming gang has none of these advantages.  This is not to say that the roaming gangs should have all of these advantages, but they should have a few…

Fleets have been operating far from their home ports for hundreds of years.  And in the last 150 years or so, the capabilities have existed for ships to refit and rearm far from their bases.  It makes sense that the capability should exist in New Eden as well.  And giving roaming gangs this capability will introduce new game-play options.

Characteristics

The class name for the new ship will be “Tender”.  It will be a new T2 destroyer-class (or perhaps industrial-class) hull unique to each race, and based on a new T1 destroyer hull:

  • the Caldari Tender will be called the Dove;
  • the Gallente Tender will be called the Asclepius;
  • the Amarr Tender will be called the Cleric;
  • the Minmatar Tender will be called the Scalpel.

The primary skill requirement to fly the Tender will be racial Frigate V.  The secondary skill requirement to fly the Tender will be Destroyers V.  The tertiary skill requirement to fly the Tender will be racial Tender I, which will be based on Engineering V and Energy Emissions V.

The Tender will have the following class bonuses:

  • Destroyer Skill Bonus: +10% cargo capacity and +5% speed per level
  • Tender Skill Bonus: 20% reduction to Shield Transport, Remote Armor Repairer, and Remote Hull Repairer capacitory use and +10% to repair amount per level
  • Role Bonus: -50% CPU and grid need for Shield Transporters, Remote Armor Repairers, and Remote Hull Repairers; and +100% penalty to remote repairer cycle time

Each Tender will have four high slots, and as you can see from the bonuses, would partially be a “mini-Logistics.”  However, its primary advantages would be two-fold: first, it would be able to fit and deploy the new salvage drones and would have sufficient drone space to do so.  And second, the Tender would have both a small Corporate Hangar Array and would have the Orca and Carrier’s ability to serve as a refitting point for fleeted ships.  Mid- and low-slots would be set sufficient to equip a moderate tank and sufficient cap mods to power two medium and one small repper of various types.  CPU and grid would likewise be set with two medium and one small repper in mind, plus another utility high slot.  Fitting a couple of CPU mods should just make it possible to fit an Expanded Probe Launcher with smaller reppers.

I also have the vague idea that it would be fun to have a Covert Ops Cloak-capable Tender for the express purpose of serving as a logistics and refitting point for cloaky Recon/Stealth Bomber gangs behind enemy lines.  Perhaps the Tender could be given the ability to jump through Covert Cynosural fields without itself being able to warp cloaked?

My general idea is that the Tender would, once fit properly, have a cargo bay of about 700 cubic meters and a CHA space of about 500 cubic meters… just enough to hold spare ammo on the way out and loot on the way back.  Lock time and sig radius would be comparable to the existing destroyers.  Lock range would be somewhat less than the current destroyers.

Tenders would not be particularly viable as in-combat Logistics ships both due to their thin skins, the value of the cargo they were carrying, and the cycle time penalty applied to their Shield Transporters and Remote Repairers.  One would call in the Tenders after the battle was over, not while the battle was on-going.

Commentary

The primary role of the Tender would be to act as an in-space refitting and repair point for small- and medium-size gangs behind enemy lines.  Like the submarine tenders of World War II on which the class is based, Tenders behind enemy lines could hold a large amount of ammunition, spare modules, Nanite Repair Paste, Liquid Ozone, isotopes, et cetera.  It fills an important void: it allows gangs operating behind enemy lines to refit ships for different capabilities as needed without the need for docking rights.  This would create a lot of emergent game-play: a small group of tenders with a battle cruiser gang, for instance, could refit for short- or long-range depending on the enemy gangs that they encountered and the tactics the BC gang wished to use.

However, the smaller platform is also itself viable behind enemy lines, unlike the Orca or Carrier, which are too-specialized to operate in this sort of role.  Unlike the Orca or Carrier, the Tender does not have a vast cargo hold, and as a result, a large fleet wishing to refit for a different role would require a large number of Tenders to make that possible, or perhaps one or two Tenders plus an Industrial.  The Tenders could also help bait ships fit additional tank, or if bait ships were not needed, remove the bait fitting for a more universal fit.  Tenders could also carry additional drones in their cargo bay to replace drones lost in space by roaming gang.  And of course, it might be handy for the Tender to carry a Cynosural Field Generator or two in its CHA…

If the Tender were given the ability to use Covert Cynos, it could operate as the primary logistics platform for Stealth Bomber and Recon gangs operating behind enemy lines.  The Tender’s ability to allow the bombers to refit would give them the ability to fit for bombing fit or ganking fit depending on the fleet’s needs, and the cargo space and CHA could be used to hold Bomb Launchers and spare bombs.  Tenders operating with Recons (particularly Falcons or Rooks) could carry the spare racial jammers needed to affect a fleet found during a long roam, or additional e-war or tank as needed for other Recons.

Tenders would be reasonably useful for PvE fleets operating in low-sec or null-sec, particularly for carrying loot.

Finally, the platform does allow for a certain amount of LOL-fleets with two-gun, two-repper Tender fleets, or Tender fleets refitting on the fly to equip different weapon types as needed depending on what they encounter in space.

Conclusion

The Tender creates an extremely versatile “mini-logistics” and refitting platform that would somewhat reduce the inherent advantage that null-sec alliances enjoy far into 0.0 space.  With a viable platform to offer refitting, rearming, and repair services, null-sec gangs could travel deeper into 0.0 and reduce the safety that those in deep 0.0 currently enjoy.  The ship does not replace the existing Logistics class and offers capabilities that would not be matched by the current industrial ships.  Making the Tender a destroyer would make it a relatively fragile target that would be easily destroyed if caught.

The primary goal of the Tender is to drive emergent game-play: this proposal lists only some of the advantages to which clever EVE players could apply this platform…

Thoughts?

Ripard Teg

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41 Comments

  1. hey

    Requiring frig 5 for a destroyer seems like totally opposed with the last changes CCP is planning (t2 ships of a ship class dependant only of the class itself).

    April 3, 2012 at 3:41 pm Reply
  2. mister yes

    NO !

    April 3, 2012 at 3:42 pm Reply
  3. Mr.Obvi0us

    Isn't this what a carrier is for?

    April 3, 2012 at 3:49 pm Reply
    1. Mr.Obvi0us

      and wht the fuck is this on EN24? Use the damn eve-o forums for your fails news and game changing iterations!!

      April 3, 2012 at 3:51 pm Reply
    2. M1k3y

      Requires cyno, not very subtle for a gang trying to do BLOPs

      April 4, 2012 at 12:04 am Reply
  4. Cerneus

    A simple battleship, black ops or a carrier fits this role if fit correctly. I was operating in hostile space for about 2 years and never had a huge issue with repairing, resupplying or even refitting if needed.

    April 3, 2012 at 3:51 pm Reply
  5. Johhny Dave Boy

    I like the fact that you thought of a new role, but it is of my opinion that the refitting services should only be perfromed on large ships. A dreadnought refitting at a destroyer makes no sense. These services are currently only provided by stations, POS, and carriers. Making a leap to destroyers seems a leap too far.

    April 3, 2012 at 3:52 pm Reply
    1. widot grunt

      It's a new role … for an alt.

      April 3, 2012 at 4:07 pm Reply
  6. Akrasjel Lanate

    What ?

    April 3, 2012 at 3:53 pm Reply
  7. Diversity Fan

    I like the idea! CCP, make it so!

    April 3, 2012 at 3:57 pm Reply
  8. anon

    much as i hate to +1 anything of Jester's, this is a pretty interesting and well thought-out idea that deserves consideration whether it makes it to game or not. for those knee-jerking "hell no's" out of their ass, what's your idea for a new destroyer hull, hmm?

    April 3, 2012 at 4:00 pm Reply
    1. Anonymouse

      How about some heavy destroyers that can fit medium guns and launchers?

      How about a chamelon vessel that can 'imitate' another ship and keeps it's ruse until discovered by flying close enough or shot at? (Think Spy from TF2, perhaps even give it a backstab like attack?)

      How about a heavy stealth bomber? Covert ops + 6 or more torpedo launchers would probably ruin a lot of days. Just make it very glass cannon. Should also cost a fair bit to fit one up, like the new tier3 bc's…

      And a tender class vessel sounds good, but what is the tech 1 base ship? Limit the size of what can refit at the ship so capitals can't use these to rapid-refit in combat. Refitting in combat should get changed anyway… That's like hotswapping a video card or motherboard in the middle of doing stuff…..

      April 3, 2012 at 4:38 pm Reply
  9. nope

    stupid idea, not realistic, to much work, will not happen

    April 3, 2012 at 4:15 pm Reply
    1. Pazuzu

      Like your comment?

      April 3, 2012 at 4:40 pm Reply
      1. Raz

        Bad idea is the only possible and honest coment.

        April 4, 2012 at 4:44 pm Reply
  10. grunt

    i like it

    April 3, 2012 at 4:15 pm Reply
    1. Cynic

      I don't mind the concept, but i don't see it getting much use.

      April 3, 2012 at 4:31 pm Reply
  11. iskbot#1337

    bad idea
    this would be the end of the known wh-gameplay

    April 3, 2012 at 4:52 pm Reply
  12. DaDude

    Take a carrier, fit a remote hull rep + armor rep +shield rep on it, stuff it full with amunition and modules.. there you go.. your tender

    April 3, 2012 at 4:58 pm Reply
    1. BillyBob

      Ok, go ahead and take a carrier with you on a small gang roam in 0.0. Tell me how that works out for you.

      April 3, 2012 at 10:44 pm Reply
    2. M1k3y

      Yea the idea is it would be a smaller, more portable version of the orca/carrier. As in it can go through gates and not have an Orca's align time

      April 4, 2012 at 12:02 am Reply
  13. Bear1990

    I'd like to see the introduction of T3 destroyers personally. With modular subsystems available to a T3 cruiser, you could setup the sort of ship you're talking about using the logistics defensive subsystem and the cov ops subsystem. But, no one wants to use a T3 cruiser as a glorified logistics ship, but a cheaper, T3 Destroyer could fit the bill, while also proving flexibility to be a strong pvp ship with different subs. The tricky area here is not making it too overpowered.

    April 3, 2012 at 5:03 pm Reply
  14. Peggy from prime

    Dessie bomber. 1 BIG bomb …big boom to Captal class. Little boom to everything else. No cloak , bigger sig, slow – Like the torpedo bombers of WW2. Hard to get through – but if you do….it HURTS.

    April 3, 2012 at 5:08 pm Reply
    1. DaDude

      With two kinds of bombs.. one that butthurts caps and one with area damage that increases depending on the number of enemy ships on grid…

      April 3, 2012 at 5:20 pm Reply
  15. o.o

    Interesting idea.

    Also bad idea.

    April 3, 2012 at 5:18 pm Reply
  16. Pygar

    Why make a new ship type instead of just using the logistical ships that already exist?

    April 3, 2012 at 5:38 pm Reply
  17. Gumpin

    Or just add an extra highslot to the orca to allow it to cloak while having each of the reppers.

    Same result, more utility.

    Or get a carrier and cyno it along. Then you can even swap out ships!

    or make an expensive tech 2 destroyer that doesn't shoot, and doesn't tank. No one EVER gets shot behind a fleet right?

    April 3, 2012 at 5:59 pm Reply
    1. Aonus

      who the heck takes an Orca to a roam? no matter how the heck you fit it. a Roam = Mobile…

      Even with a cloak, Repping ability.. Ever see an orca align and warp?

      April 3, 2012 at 9:32 pm Reply
  18. ViperRum

    Cloaky transports like the Crane and Viator can do much of this (at least in terms of ammo, nanite repair paste, etc.) already. A remote repairer is probably not that efficient, but many roaming gangs already use logistic ships. So I'm just not seeing the point.

    April 3, 2012 at 6:00 pm Reply
  19. 0.0 toon

    I like it. as long as it was cheap… it would make sense when i take out 10 man roams to have this ship used with an alt 2 jumps behind. use it as a rep and refit point. Limited use though. And def needs touching up a lil.

    April 3, 2012 at 7:03 pm Reply
  20. Just a thought

    I like the idea indeed. On reading the comments, I thought of another idea. What about a ship with some kind of shockwave? It could be used to break up blobs or stop people playing station games, wouldn't have to be that op, just a means of directional shunt. Targeting would work like a bomb launcher for a focused high power shunt or a weaker aoe shunt. Would be a special ability to that class.

    April 3, 2012 at 7:38 pm Reply
    1. BillyBob

      Called a smart bomb.

      April 3, 2012 at 10:42 pm Reply
      1. Just a thought

        but smartbombs don't bump ships, the idea is more to move ships rather than damage, i.e. a focused shunt would move them rather than damage them, this would disrupt blob formations as well as move people off station who come out to get hit until structure then dock. Something that likely bothers us all.

        April 3, 2012 at 10:54 pm Reply
  21. hirrrr

    all of this is incredibly redundant given that all of this exists in the game already, albeit with higher sp

    April 3, 2012 at 9:42 pm Reply
  22. Qwerty4812

    the ability to refit is HUGE… you can't give that to a small destroyer… u messed up a mod… too bad

    April 3, 2012 at 10:33 pm Reply
  23. M1k3y

    I don't see the need for ships to refit very often, most ships have one fit they use for PVP and that is the fit that remains on that fit. Would be nice to have something that could do RR on a cloaky gang, so that armor ships would have a more viable option, and something to carry extra ammo/fuel/drones (I hate having to leave my drones on the field, can't get new ones until I dock up back in home station again)

    April 4, 2012 at 12:11 am Reply
  24. ZedoTelhado

    A viable idea for very small gangs and I like this "Covert Ops Cloak-capable Tender"

    April 4, 2012 at 1:51 am Reply
  25. stoicspoon

    I don't think it would hurt the game.

    It would be useful to a very small number of people only though.

    So I say, at best, this should be super-low priority.

    April 4, 2012 at 3:23 am Reply
  26. Binary

    I want to see a new destroyer that will actually get used. Like it's already been said, we have carriers for the ability to refit in the field. Maybe most people don't take carriers on small roams but then you don't need to refit that badly. If you need extra ammo you can easily pack it into other ships and jetcan it for people who need it.

    It's just not a role that needs to be filled, and nobody would fly one. It is hard enough to get people to fly logi's and not get in on killmails.

    April 4, 2012 at 2:38 pm Reply
    1. Wilson Yu

      dude, destroyer is the most used in suicide gank. i can gather 3 destroy each worth 3-5 million in fitting and suicide a hulk that is worth 100-200 million. so…. don't know what u are saying bro, destroyers are used….. mostly for suicide gank =)

      April 9, 2012 at 2:11 am Reply
  27. flappentapper-fapper

    I always thought a destroyer class ship that could launch webbing-bubbles would be awesome…

    April 4, 2012 at 5:54 pm Reply

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