Much has been discussed on the upcoming Titan nerf. While requesting a bit of perspective with Sala Cameron, probably one of the most famous Ragnarok pilots in Eve, he pointed me towards an hysterical post made by I’m Down on the eve-o forums. For the record, I’m Down was also known as Yaay, seasoned super-capital slayer FC. So this comes as an interesting perspective to share:

Perspective: I’m Down for Titan Nerfs Or Why the Upcoming Changes won’t do Shit.

There is a reason why I’ve said for the past 2 years that adjusting tracking will not fix the problem. Just like fixing lock time also does not address the problem at all.

You developers have for years completely ignored your tracking mechanics and how utterly garbage they are. You have also ignored people informing you of why you can’t fix tracking under the current design. So let me drop this knowledge on you for why your first fix to titans has changed so little in what they do that it will have virtually 0 impact on the game after a few months of adaptation:

The current problem is that titans in large numbers can blap the ever living shit out of a fleet with basically no risk simply because they are huge HP buffers that can be repaired by motherships which are also huge HP buffers. Now I could bitch and moan about Capital Remote repairers and their range and their effectiveness, particularly on huge hp and resist stars like supers, but that would go off track of my point, so I’ll avoid the temptation.

So you changed tracking… big whoop. Rather than track around 220 m/s for every 10km of range, an Erebus/Rag now tracks about 110 m/s for every 10km of range. In addition, they have a gun sig size of about double that of a BS. This creates some magical world where a ship further away can be tracked better, but is some how mysteriously the same size as though range dilation has no affect at all on how well you can see that now tiny little dot. In layman’s terms…. This means that if Eve mechanics worked in the real universe, Every star in the whole freaking universe would look approximately the same size as our sun, as would all the planets in size relation to our moon rather than the tiny specs in the sky that they are.

So here’s what happens after your patch to just circumvent the whole problem you just created…. Lock time you say… Tracking speed you say…

Hello Mr. Proteus, Hello either 5 AEONS with 4 Domi painters or 50 Archons with 4 T2 Painters (and just for luls cause the ship is cheap, why not throw in 2 range extenders for the painters as well). Now that wonderful tengu has an 800-1200 sig and at 60km can be tracked plus has a sig size near the same as the guns do. That Maelstrom has a 1700 + sig… ie bigger than the guns do, and can be tracked at about 12km range…. And oh yeah, you can easily get those 300-400,000 ehp small sig lokis to web down anything closer than those ranges to prevent them from avoiding the tracking problems… not like tech 3’s are rare these days.

Oh but lock time you say… well if the carrier paints before the Titans ever lock…. Oh yeah, Lock a tengu in 30-35 seconds, lock a Maelstrom in 23-30 seconds… that’s so brutal. Oh yeah, and that’s just with fucking Navy tracking computers and sensor boosters, I didn’t even toss in the Meta 13-14 gear.

Gee… in 20 minutes of planning and a slight modification to what my fleet roles are, I’ve just circumvented your entire titan patch plans b/c you thought this was enough to warrant not changing the coding of your formulas so that they make sense.

Good thing there’s nobody in this game who couldn’t ya know, divide their titan pilots up on mumble into 10-15 sub channels, have a few SC’s assigned to each for painting and just perform the exact same way where it’s “paint, blap, blap, boom” rather than the old, “blap, blap, boom”…. That extra step… it will be the death of me. Guess us PL folk, or Raiden folk, or NC. Folk will have a horrible time adapting to this fix bros.

Thanks for the effort… maybe next time you’ll listen to sense, put in the extra time needed, and avoid yet another **** fix.

[Original Discussion]

– R

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83 Comments

  1. Null sec is for fags

    I've said this before, I'll say it again:

    There needs to be a harder way to build titans. Make sov alliances have to have empire like infrastructure/member requirements to even have the ability to make the titans. Boom.

    March 21, 2012 at 2:19 am Reply
    1. nope

      that doesn't do anything to the titans that already exist. Making them harder to build would just help the current titan alliances EVEN MORE by making it harder to catch up to them in super proliferation.

      Also it takes supers to defend sov -> it takes sov to build supers. This creates a self feeding loop where people with CSAAs build supers to defend their CSAAs and take more space for more CSAAs. Meanwhile everyone else who needs supers to win fights and take space so they can build supers is out of luck.

      OR

      like the original article said, fix the actual tracking / targeting / shooting to hit algorithm that is causing this whole mess. This not only makes titan guns more reasonable, but every other ship's turrets in the game.

      March 21, 2012 at 2:33 am Reply
    2. CnC

      Any fixes relating to building/acquiring Titan's needed to be done before proliferation.

      The cat's out of the bag. Pandora's Box has been opened. The day of Super Capitals has long since arrived and short of some out of the box solutions (e.g. NPC Jove spawning on and killing Titan pilots as they log in, removing Titans/SC's from the game and putting the build components in the clone station, etc.), they're here to stay.

      On a side note, if Titan's and Super Carriers are actually fun for the pilots, they will be the bane of the Subcap player. If Titan's aren't fun for the pilots, you'll clip a nice chunk of pilots out the game, especially older members of the community who feel they've seen and done it all. Short of a new vision for these behemoths, they'll simply reinforce the existing coalitions and the eventual complete polarization of Nullsec.

      March 21, 2012 at 2:35 am Reply
    3. fuck goons

      because building titans is easy.

      March 21, 2012 at 4:02 am Reply
  2. To emulate the angular resolution that Yaay is talking about, there are a number of options: multiply listed resolution by optimal range/target range during the calculation, convert sig res from metres to radians (and use trig functions), or adjust target apparent size by optimal/target range.

    1000m is still too small for weapons designed to be shooting structures and capitals. EWAR immunity is still crap.

    March 21, 2012 at 2:39 am Reply
    1. hirrrrrrrr

      what you want to jam the titan with 1 ewar ship? TBH keep the Ewar subcap immunity add another super (or regular cap or both) that specialize in ewar and are able to affect supercapitals. I think it would nicely round out the capital ranks which currently have drone boats and structure killing boats but no EWAR boat.

      March 21, 2012 at 4:27 am Reply
      1. Lorren Canada

        EWAR immunity is bad because any fight with supers merely turns into a dps race with no mitigating factors – which is extremely out of line and two dimensional compared to the rest of the game. Not that one blackbird should jam a super, but they should be vulnerable to more advanced and powerful ewar from tech2 ships (maybe ewar frigs?)

        March 21, 2012 at 5:23 am Reply
        1. hirrrrrrrr

          well thats why i was thinking an ewar cap, since caps havent seen any real advancement ship wise since there release. I think that diversfying cap types through additional hulls would make capital battle more interesting and result in significant changes with how the current 4 classes of capitals are used.

          March 21, 2012 at 5:41 am Reply
    2. trig

      I'd go the high school trigonometry route.

      Ship guns have a radian based accuracy. Then anything they are shooting at has it's distance and the length of the ship in meters (or the signature of the ship in meters)

      March 21, 2012 at 6:46 am Reply
      1. trig

        So a ship's effective size in radians from the observer would be = -tan( ship's actual size / distance)

        Is that correct? It's been a while since I have done trig.

        March 21, 2012 at 6:59 am Reply
  3. SgtSimons

    all that titans need is some sort of awesome counter. I personally like dreads and changing the dd but that is just me. But the fact still stands titans need a counter and until they get a real one nothing will change.

    How about titan aids? INFECT ALL THE GOLDEN SHAFTS WITH AIDS!!

    March 21, 2012 at 2:48 am Reply
    1. hirrrrrrrr

      more capital options imo, but ive said that elsewhere here.

      March 21, 2012 at 4:30 am Reply
  4. Anon

    Just because an object is further away doesn't change the size of it, we don't have guys manually sitting at the gun aiming. (not a role player but gonna sound like it) We've got computer systems guiding the weapons, the tracking speed is how fast the weapon can mechanically turn. I agree that the nerf will be worthless in the end as well, just pointing out that detail.

    March 21, 2012 at 3:01 am Reply
  5. Anon

    The best way to fix Supers is to let them either be vulnerable to harmful EWAR as well as helpful. Or the more likely no remote increases to computer systems of any sort. Then add stacking penalties to ships being targeted with multiple EWAR measures.

    March 21, 2012 at 3:03 am Reply
    1. DeviouslyBaking

      what is this, I don't even?

      March 21, 2012 at 5:22 pm Reply
    2. Bokun

      Being able to use EWAR on supers would definitely be a huge help, sure a Titan should have a very high sensor strength but being totally immune is just silly.

      March 21, 2012 at 10:28 pm Reply
  6. shaderp

    the idiots who wrote this did read that post about changing titans right ? ccp said they werent done with titans yet and there will be more modifications to them

    March 21, 2012 at 3:10 am Reply
    1. unfinished

      Yeah and they'll totally get round to that.

      CCP has a long history of making half of something and then saying they'll get round to it later. Then getting distracted by something else.

      Dominion was supposed to see iteration so that you'd see smaller fights split up across the whole system.

      Hell if you want to see an unfinished product just dock up and walk around your little apartment all alone.

      March 21, 2012 at 6:24 pm Reply
  7. Mr Peanut

    The game is over guys, its time to accept it. Unless they make nullsec 10x bigger in the patch and give everyone something to do again…other than wiping out their giant space penises all over each other of course

    March 21, 2012 at 3:19 am Reply
  8. Someguy

    He mad, bro.o7o7o7m8m8m.

    March 21, 2012 at 4:19 am Reply
  9. :smugface:

    I agree with this post. Nerf titans EVEN MORE please! 😀

    March 21, 2012 at 4:23 am Reply
  10. dude

    Everyone wants eve to be the new wow i guess. Easy mode on and all that, oh wait but faction warfare seems to be doing something right. They kill what big coalitions can not! Until CCP does something about the big coalitions, titans should not be touched. Its just meh to see them nerf everything completely and watch the map become even more stale

    March 21, 2012 at 4:34 am Reply
    1. Ok......

      you want everyone to just sit in their sov space, happy campers never fighting are losing and gaining space?

      I sense a care bear

      March 21, 2012 at 9:34 am Reply
    2. Canadian Jesus

      You are retarded… there is nothing ccp can do about coalitions… all naps can easily be avoided if they were restricted. Alliance A tells all their grunts to like alliance B and so on. Also once everyone was used to the new resrictions, for temporary NAPS and targets of opportunity "only shoot broadcasted targets". A lot of this already happens daily without official standings set.

      March 21, 2012 at 3:34 pm Reply
  11. WTF?

    While I do agree with what Yaay is saying, he suggests removing (partially) 4 aeons/30 archons from whatever else they have to do, to target paint bs's.

    Im not exactly unhappy about that.

    March 21, 2012 at 4:38 am Reply
  12. WTF?

    correction, 50 archons, even better

    March 21, 2012 at 4:39 am Reply
    1. Gumpin

      What about the much maligned minmatar logistical ewar skill.

      Its to target painting.

      Vigils and hyena's or even, dare I say, bellicose. suddenly appear in fleet with 25 to 37.5% increased target painter effectiveness

      Not to mention the huginn and the ever popular rapier get these bonuses too. And the rapier can cloak and cyno AND web. Its the ultimate new utility ship.

      March 21, 2012 at 5:03 am Reply
  13. allianc

    what if whats wrong with the picture isnt the wrong predator, simply the wrong environment? nerfing titans seems to be a short term fix, whats needed is a significant enough change to nul sec mechanics where the stakes are raised enough for titans to be actually fielded, and often enough for them to die in significant numbers to either caps, sub or super. how this would be done i have no idea.

    March 21, 2012 at 4:58 am Reply
  14. Anon

    I still say sub caps shouldn't be able to harm supers and supers shouldnt be able to harm subs.

    I also say forget realistic in eve… If we're gonna be realistic, wouldn't an XL or XXXXL or XXXXXXXXL or whatever size lazor you want to slap on your titan be as large as some of the smaller ships? In other words, just because you are small, why would you take less damage? I assume getting hit by a beam of light or a projectile as large or larger than your ship would mean you insta blap.

    Since we want to add realism to the game, lets add collision. Mid warp happens to be right through a station or a planet? blap. Ram a titan at high speed? blap cyber a gallete? blap

    All this blap talk make me want to fap fap fap

    March 21, 2012 at 6:17 am Reply
    1. this could work

      actually you could have guns do full damage when they hit, (or modified damage based on the falloff range, maybe they lose power at long distances or something)

      All you'd have to do is have some sort of to-hit roll based on the angular velocity (tracking) and how big the target looks based on it's distance (sig radius). Then you run the to hit function against every turret that's being fired.

      XL guns would still blap a frig or cruiser or whatever. But they'd be very unlikely to hit.

      March 21, 2012 at 6:51 am Reply
      1. Congratulations! You just explained what EvEs tracking system IS.

        March 21, 2012 at 9:13 am Reply
  15. I just don't know

    In fact it gives a point of vulnerbility, the carriers and others doing the target painting, you remove them the effectiveness goes down, also there may be less supers on field because of the need for painters. I do not agree with this nerf, but what I think should be nerfed is this re-fitting on the fly while engaged, if Titans and Super Carriers could only be re-fitted at a POS then people would have to make hard decisions on their fitting for the battle, so a optimal tracking titan has a soft tank, way to go chaps…

    March 21, 2012 at 6:42 am Reply
    1. lol

      dude u have no clue… if u got 30 objects around you u cant refit in space.. so technically supers cant refit half the time when in a huge blob anyway

      March 22, 2012 at 4:54 am Reply
  16. Nerfbat

    Well.. CCP did say it was a "quick fix".. but what this show is that now CCP is watching the titans closely.. its not going to take 2 years to next nerf..

    March 21, 2012 at 7:02 am Reply
  17. Eirene

    Maybe the right way to fix Supers, is to define what Supers should do. 😉
    Structure grinding is the job of the Dreadnought.

    Example:
    Let an Supercarrier carrying remote controlled Battleships, BCs, HACs, Logi… what ever. Battleships fitted like ordinary BS with an single Lowslot modul, the "drone brain". This would give highskill-lownumbers Allys the option to fight toe-to-toe, increase cost of "drones" but also increase flexibility.
    Balancing this would work with the hangar space.

    March 21, 2012 at 7:40 am Reply
  18. HR4ever

    If the OP was not so emotional, maybe his points would be taken more seriously. Nice tears, though.

    March 21, 2012 at 8:06 am Reply
  19. Nobody

    Do you think the Hubble telescope aims at each star with the same ease? Or maybe it would still be more difficult to keep track of a star 10 galaxies away?

    If it's further away, it's harder to exactly pinpoint it. For computers as for humans alike.

    March 21, 2012 at 9:30 am Reply
    1. Jericho

      Thats not true. Computers are far superior to humans in whatever they are designed for. Perfect example, have a look at some image of a nebula on the internet. You will see all sorts of amazing hues of colour and depth. Go look at that same nebula through a telescope and all you will see is shades of grey. The colour is most certainly there, but due to the distance, the human eye is not sensitive enough to detect that colour. Thus Anon is correct, although obviously everything has its limits.

      March 21, 2012 at 12:36 pm Reply
      1. GOOG

        Short and sweet:
        No matter how close you were to those nebulas, you wouldn't be able to see those colors.
        They are digitized hues of different substances (hydrogen, oxygen, helium, methane). Each color represents one of those substances. They are fake pictures. They don't really look like that. Sorry pal.

        March 21, 2012 at 1:47 pm Reply
        1. Gumpin

          This is true.

          You can find pictures of nebula where the color was though to be different so you have one picture that has a lot of blue, and another that has a lot of yellow. Both claim to be the actual color.

          The very faint color the stars in the nebula might give off isn't very amazing.

          March 21, 2012 at 2:40 pm Reply
      2. Gumpin

        oh woooooowwwww

        I don't even know where to begin to facepalm this. You have to be trollololololo.

        My brain refuses to believe that you think computers do everything better than humans. Unless you're asian. Then yes computers are better than you at math.

        Otherwise go back to watching CSI and Bones and thinking computers are the hand of god.

        March 21, 2012 at 1:53 pm Reply
        1. Kratisto

          computers are better at anything that involves math. Do you realize what that 3.0 GHZ means on your processor? it means it runs at 3 billion cycles/second. Granted computer "logic" is a trifle more tedious than human thought, but at the rate it goes, it leaves us in the dust.

          Yes computers cannot pass a touring test (yet), but if you dont think computers will ever have the capacity, your imagination is probably on the level of the computer to which you feel so superiour.

          March 21, 2012 at 4:06 pm Reply
          1. Gumpin

            To bad math doesn't solve the entire world eh? Though I'm sure a few million engineering/physicist students wish it did.

            Computers might ONE DAY be as good as a person. However today is not that day. And even at math they are still finite.

            Down vote me more wishful one. Keep reading wired and pop sci and one day one of their predictions will come true in your life time! Like rail guns!
            http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/qf/c/ModernMe

            Look how shiny and progressive! Why I bet if they are making this story in 1932 we will have the technology down pat by '35!

            March 21, 2012 at 8:06 pm
      3. Crow Sword

        As an APoD lover, I need to note that those beautiful colors are usually so-called false colors, corresponding to emission lines for some selected atoms/ions/whatever (for example, hydrogen emission is replaced with red color, oxygen with blue, sulfur with yellow, etc. – depending on the chemical composition of a nebula).

        March 21, 2012 at 2:51 pm Reply
    2. Crow Sword

      Totally wrong. Aiming to star 4 lys away or 4 millions lys away is exactly the same in difficulty: aim to a non-moving dot with known coordinates.

      March 21, 2012 at 2:48 pm Reply
  20. Rainbow Dash

    Wow that is an excellent post by op.

    WTF is it doing on Evenews24 ? 😛

    March 21, 2012 at 9:38 am Reply
    1. rix

      "someone" is running a campaign against ccp, trying to force them to put this change on hold.

      March 21, 2012 at 5:43 pm Reply
  21. Arlekyn

    I'm not a titan owner and I don't intend to be one, in fact I no longer play the game for some 2 months or so, but I can't help asking myself: would I spend more than 60bils on a mobile jb?! Keep nerfing them and you'll run out of the luck of ever being on the killmail of one of them. I'd say CCP should give them bonuses to mining turrets, remove DD and guns and combat drones, make them vulnerable to normal points, reduce the range of on board scanner and remove the pilot from local channel. Than anyone can go kill a titan in a rifter … well not really, but you got the point.
    It takes a considerable amount of time to train a good titan pilot and it takes a high amount of isk to build/fit one. Why would you make this ship… useless?! Or, let's put it this way: what would you use this ship for after the nerf?

    March 21, 2012 at 9:51 am Reply
    1. Headerman

      I can see how smaller alliances would use them, their jump portals would be heaven for things like a bunch of freighters or small scale PVP to head off a small enemy fleet.

      Plus being a smaller alliance means they would be less likely to send it out onto the battlefield.

      This "fix though is pretty sucky though. I'm Down has shown how easily the fix will be sidestepped. CCP will not be popular if the nerf titans again after this though.

      March 21, 2012 at 10:26 am Reply
  22. Why shouldn't the biggeswt, most powerful ship in the game be able to kill a battleship? Or a cruiser? Or a frigate?

    The solution is NOT to nerf titans, it's to buff dreads. They should be hulking DPS dealing behemoths designed to kill ships like the titan.

    March 21, 2012 at 10:55 am Reply
  23. TrollofTrolls

    I agree the "fix" to Titans was not the correct way to use it.

    Capital and Super Capital ship needs a "defined" role. And losing a superCap should be harmful to the operations of the alliance. and using them in combined arms with subCaps should be promoted.

    First off i think the Dev:s should consider all the ships not just Subcaps for the "fixing the ship one at a time". do them at the same time.

    I read somewhere about an idea about letting SuperCarriers carry reinforcements for the alliance (CloneVats and spare ships). Eliminating the Pod race if you die. i my self like this idea it promotes the use of supers in normal fleet ops.

    my sugestion is adding more ships to the game
    we need bigger support ships
    a Battleship class Logistics
    a Battleship class EWAR (EWAR on Supers)
    redesign the Battleship class CovOps thats useful. my suggestion is a ship that can hold a covOpCyno and can pull other covop ships to another covOpCyno (IE droping 50+ Stealth bombers behind enemy lines)

    and somthing like the new T3 BC but in Battleship size IE Capital size guns. that can turn the tide on supers.

    March 21, 2012 at 11:06 am Reply
  24. Guest

    The whole point of the nerf wasn't just to nerf titans into oblivion, it was to force titans to have a support fleet. Yaay completely reinforces The Mittani's argument. Now, titans will need subcapitals there to target paint and web.

    March 21, 2012 at 11:58 am Reply
    1. DeviouslyBaking

      you mean like they always have?

      March 21, 2012 at 5:12 pm Reply
      1. Marcus_McTavish

        So Shields supers are back to be horrible? Great, guess i should cross train now, stupid caldari and minmatar 😛

        March 21, 2012 at 11:19 pm Reply
    2. Grath

      because Titans and Supers can't fit webs and painters right?

      March 21, 2012 at 6:16 pm Reply
    3. dani lizardo

      yes a sub capitals in form of mother ships with painters… :)
      read again please.
      Mittani you god doesnt know sh*t, or in fact the most of this so called CSM thingy…
      That is way things will be changed, but the real problem wont get fixed…

      I just wonder how much time we have playing this game, before everybody go titan and super pilots :)

      March 21, 2012 at 6:26 pm Reply
      1. Marcus_McTavish

        it wont, because you would need a super in every system with a cyno, [/trollface]

        March 21, 2012 at 11:18 pm Reply
  25. Bitter Newb

    Sweet, finally a buff to painters and to support fleets. Also it's not clear that Yaay understands that stacking penalties apply to target painters. No way you're going to get an AB Tengu up to 1200 sig.

    March 21, 2012 at 12:21 pm Reply
    1. DeviouslyBaking

      Just like you can't make a ship on undock unable to do anything with web stacking penalties?

      March 21, 2012 at 5:12 pm Reply
      1. Sapegu

        You are talking about a ship with WEB bonuses…

        March 22, 2012 at 11:29 am Reply
    2. Bokun

      Target painter stacking penalties only apply to multiple modules fitted to the same ship. 50 ships can each apply a single target painter to the same target without any stacking penalty.

      March 21, 2012 at 10:30 pm Reply
    3. Marcus_McTavish

      Confirming PL is smug enough to use only one Huggin.

      March 21, 2012 at 11:10 pm Reply
      1. Bitter Newb

        Wrong, wrong, wrong. And so is the guy below you (Bokun). Painters stack across ships, just like other ewar effects. So there is a hard limit on how much you can increase someone's sig. Test it for yourself!

        March 22, 2012 at 5:26 am Reply
  26. Pilot

    Why nerfing supers, much better thing would be bringing a counterweapon to game. Guys, did you ever play Starlancer? Do you remember there were superbombers that could launch torpedoes capable to kill a capital ship if there was enough of them?
    Maybe it would be a good idea to place such "supercapital destroyers" equipped with "supertorpedoes" that would have explosion radius 15km, deal some mil. HP damage, but would be shootable with guns/missiles, have like 50k EHP, sig as a cruiser, minimum flight time like 30 secs to 1 min (so it would not be possible to come at minimum distance without giving enemy a chance to shoot the torpedoes), if they are destroyed, they make AOE damage (so they cannot be just killed by drones / ceptors from close range), immune to webification and weapons with area effect (bombs, smartbombs).
    With this weapon, superexperienced alliances would rely on the support of younger subcap entities, cause without subcap support provided by the young alliances, their supercap blob would be destroyed.

    March 21, 2012 at 12:30 pm Reply
    1. Pilot

      This would bring new balance to the game and opportunity for new alliances to do something meaningful in nullsec. Every supercapital power would seek a backup of a competent subcap entity, which woulnd be looked at as liability, bunch of noobs that are thrown to field as meatshield without anyone taking care. The commanders would have to take care, organize the complex set of shiptypes, and losing subcap support would make supers vulnerable.

      And of course – for this support, that senior entities would need, young alliances would have to receive something, not just a few bad systems that renters didnt want. Simply, more synergy rather than one ultimate ship class that beats everything, as it is now.

      If this would be applied, no supercap nerfs would be needed.

      March 21, 2012 at 12:36 pm Reply
      1. Pilot

        Just imagine that. No more "ok, 200 dreads are shooting me, within 5 minutes they will pass through shields of my Erebus, so nyxes will just start repping me, no problem." Everytime during supercap deployment, 30 superbombers would appear, dropping torpedoes and terrible rush for shooting supertorpedoes would start because if more then 10 pass defences, its minus one nyx. No more relaxed shooting everything around and broadcasting for reps when your super loses more than 1% armor. More battles, where every shipclass will find its place, more fun for everyone, more use for new players.

        March 21, 2012 at 12:52 pm Reply
        1. Pilot

          Also, i would add "supercapital docking bay" module to outposts, for docking supers. Now, the biggest problem of younger and casual players is, that they dont have a spare alt trained to 60M SP. Locking your main in Titan is no option for most people because they would miss all fun of playing other shiptypes. Then actually titans and supers could actually be easier to build and cheaper, so that younger alliances could build and afford losing some in battle.

          March 21, 2012 at 1:02 pm Reply
    2. DarthNefarius

      Nerfing is always the lazy way out I whole heartedly agree that an anti super CAP specific weapon is much better, fair & realistic then magically downgrading a pre existicing ability… the analogy I like to use is that is if NERFing worked in the real world then the US government would magically put regulators in all Lamborgini's engines overnight at once so that they could no longer go past the speed limit to save lives & gas.

      March 21, 2012 at 3:37 pm Reply
  27. DaBoss

    Theres only one solution to the titan and super problem: They have to die more!

    I think the build cost is ok, but they just dont die enough… Its like in any RTS game. If you play multiplayer (mode FFA), and one guy doesnt get attacked he can build an enormous army and wipe out all others. (this does not occur in games where you get 'rewards' for killing enemy units). How to make titans die more? PEOPLE NEED TO HAVE MORE BALLS! If 2 FW corps can kill an enemy titan, why cant 0.0 corps? (w/o outnumbering 100 to 1 in the entire fight)

    March 21, 2012 at 12:33 pm Reply
    1. Gumpin

      Technically the faction war corps outnumbered the titan 100 to 1.

      Its just in null sec people are strangely cautious with their 20b isk bundles.

      Unlike high sec where there's 10-40b isk auto piloting to the jita system right now (there always is), and with only the autopilot set to prefer safer before they guy went to rub one out.

      March 21, 2012 at 1:56 pm Reply
  28. CanActuallyRead

    Wow mister smarty pants. You read this mister smarty pants?

    "This is a quick, surgical adjustment to solve a specific issue we have identified. It's not a general titan balance pass, and we don't consider titans "done" after this change. Titans will require significant further changes, and probably an overall adjustment in role, before they're in a place where we're really happy with them."

    You know, the part about titans not being done, the part about about significant further changes?

    Dumb ass.

    March 21, 2012 at 2:13 pm Reply
    1. Grath

      CCP, known for its prompt iteration on things right?

      March 21, 2012 at 6:18 pm Reply
  29. Buggrit

    TL,DR: The tracking formulas are worth shit and CCP doesn't know angles.

    CCP tells you the following:
    1 – if you pick a rifle and aim at a guy 500m away, you'll hit him exactly the same than if he's at 50m, if he's standing still.
    2 – you may see a rat (rodent, animal, not belt denizen) as well at 100m as at 1m from your face, but at 101m you do not see him at all.
    3 – if you stop seeing a rat at 101m, you will ALSO stop seeing an elefant at that range. Or a whale. Or a pyramid.
    4 – the face of the moon is constantly turning, not fixed towards you (its tidal-locked guys, transversal from moon to earth is about 0)

    This comes from not knowing shit about angles, orbits and how guns work. Could be from intelligent design though.

    – SIGNATURE – The "dispersion" – sig – of a gun is an angle, not an absolute, so say a 400m sig at 50KM would be 200 at 25, 100 at 12,5. But at say 150 it'd be a cool 1200m. The angle of rotation does diminish with range, but you'd have a "sweetish" spot and then it would simply start dropping.
    So even if the target is perfectly stopped at 150k, but its a cruiser with 120m of sig, a lot of rounds will miss simply because they left the gun with a slant.
    This is the same as exiting a station – you do not come straight off, you have an angle of -15 to +15. If 100 ships exit at the same time and set full speed, you'll see them spreading apart.
    – Orbit – this is a fun one. If you are orbiting something, the side of your ship is always looking at the center of the orbit. So a ship orbiting another which is stopped, no matter his speed, will have a track of 0m/s. (Good pilots could also diminish their tracking by rotating inside the orbiting ship). What does NOT happen is that an orbiting interceptor would have his own speed work against him.
    – Sensor resolution – another piece of crap. The same angular thing would work, so a close in target would be faster to lock than one farther out. As it is – works exactly the same out to your limit, then +0,001km farther on – it doesn't lock at all. To work properly, not only would you lock at different speeds, but smaller stuff couldn't be locked (or have near infinite time) at ranges different from large things.

    March 21, 2012 at 3:07 pm Reply
    1. Gumpin

      tl;dr

      March 21, 2012 at 3:19 pm Reply
      1. Marcus_McTavish

        TL;DR: CCP gone done goofed, and your illiterate and lazy.

        March 21, 2012 at 11:21 pm Reply
        1. poonus

          you're

          March 22, 2012 at 12:06 am Reply
          1. FA Grunt

            Zing

            March 22, 2012 at 11:27 am
          2. Marcus_McTavish

            I said illiterate, not bad at spelling or structure. But nice try…

            March 23, 2012 at 12:39 am
    2. rix

      in real life, most of these are true.

      but its a game after all, if ccp introduce all these factors in to the game, it ll crack even more ppl's head and even more new player unfriendly.

      March 21, 2012 at 5:35 pm Reply
    3. Hataris

      You guys really compare game mechanics to nature laws?

      I just try to imagine what will happen if CCP try to prefer nature laws to the existing game mechanics.

      I guess all of you would cry, cause a titan would be much faster then every other Ships.

      March 22, 2012 at 3:21 pm Reply
  30. -A- FC

    Tracking is broken: if a ship is faster then your tracking it should be hitable at all

    Sig is broken: if a ship is half the size of your guns sig you shouldn't be able to hit it at all

    Supers and Titans are broken they should not be able to receive remote reps if they are immune to negative remote effects (EW) unless the repair is from a triaged ship.

    Jump drives are broken, you should only be able to jump once every 5 minutes and it should take 20 seconds to spool up a jump.

    CCP: Setting a hard limit on tracking and sig seemed too reactionary

    – For once when nerf bat is actually needed CCP fail to use it, most likely because they don't want to lose multi account oldtimers.

    March 21, 2012 at 7:14 pm Reply
  31. Shin

    Get rid of Dread's Siege Mode, enable them to be RR'd and halve their damage. That should just about solve it.

    People would use Dreads more that way and more likely more supers would go down.

    On the subject of tracking, the basic rule as someone stated earlier should be distance from target and the sig radius therefore a secondary concern.

    A ship moving 2k/sec at 200m from you compared to a ship at 200km moving 2k/sec is totally different based on the speed a turret can actually move. If the turret cant move that quick you cant track it, simple.

    Much needs to be looked at…

    March 23, 2012 at 1:29 pm Reply
  32. Hi! Do you know if they make any plugins to protect against hackers? I’m kinda paranoid about losing everything I’ve worked hard on. Any tips?

    February 8, 2019 at 1:09 pm Reply

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