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Purgatory

And now an important message from Jester’s evil twin, Garth.  The opinions of Garth are not the opinions of Jester (unless they are).

Want to know the very best thing about CCP?

It’s hard to tell, when they fuck something up, if:

  • they’ve fucked it up accidentally and intend to quickly fix it; or,
  • they’ve fucked it up accidentally and don’t know how to fix it; or,
  • they’ve fucked it up accidentally, but think that fucking it up was a good thing and they don’t intend to fix it; or,
  • they’ve fucked it up deliberately because they thought it was fucked up before and they don’t intend to fix it; or,
  • they’ve fucked it up deliberately, know that they’re going to catch shit from the players for fucking it up, and want to pretend like they don’t know how to fix it (or even how it was broken) because EVE players will believe that because — after all — :CCP:.

It’s that last case that’s the most fun.  After all, a lot of EVE players believe that any success CCP has modifying game mechanics is purely freakin’ accidental.  EVE developers don’t actually play the game, right?  So they have to rely for inside knowledge on forum posts, Skype conversations, and half-remembered snippets of conversations in some dark, smoky Icelandic pub that happened while one participant or all participants were bombed out of their minds.  There’s no way that participants in any of those settings have hidden agendas, is there?  Even more hysterical, when an EVE developer fucks something up, EVE players are conditioned to believe them when they say they don’t know how they fucked it up or how to fix it, because — again — fucking :CCP:!

It’s the perfect excuse to float trial balloons.  “Oh, this is broken?  Ummmm?  How did it work before?  Are you sure that’s a bug?  You’re sure it’s broken?  Er, OK, go ahead and bug report it…”

Latest example: security status granted by killing NPC rats in null- and low-sec has been changed.  About a month ago, players started to notice that shooting these rats no longer granted them security status increases unless you were the player that inflicted the final blow on the rat.  Was this in the change log for the latest update to Crucible?  No, it was not.  So the player that noticed it filed a petition.  Here is the response, quoted in full:

This MAY have been an unannounced change, I haven’t been able to confirm that as we don’t have any pre-crucible servers available here in customer service which we can test that on. However it’s definitely by design right now that only the player who lays the final blow gets the standing. If you want to see it changed back, then I encourage you to post that on the Features and Ideas Discussion forum. You can find the forums here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/

The devs do read the forums and your input there can influence their decisions in the future.

Best regards,
GM Zerat
EVE Online Customer Support

I fucking love this!  It simultaneously “MAY have been an unannounced change” and at the very same time “it’s definitely by design”!  “If you want to see it changed back, then I encourage you to” get out a pair of knee-pads and open your mouth because one of the dev’s girl-friends left him a couple of weeks back and he has some… needs.

Fucking :CCP:!

Jesus H Spacechrist!  CCP, let me slowly and calmly explain a few fucking things to you.  This is an MMO, and it’s not a theme park MMO.  People don’t want to solo your PvE content because your PvE content is fucking shit.  If they are forced into your PvE, at least they want to do it with friends.  Yeah, I blew up a guy in low-sec once.  Know what happened?  Gate guns did their level best to take my head off for the next 15 minutes (+5 minutes because :CCP:).  And I got a GCC, which meant that any moron with a Rifter and an attitude could shoot at me for 15 minutes.  And the guy I blew up got kill rights on me for 30 days.  And I got security status taken off.

All because I shot some moron in low-sec once.  Yeah, the punishments definitely fit the fucking crime there, don’t they!

To fix this, all I have to do is shoot rats.  And each rat puts 0.00001 of my sec status back so that maybe I can shoot some other moron in low-sec at some future date without needing a high-sec alt to buy all my shit to PvP with because I shot someone in low-sec once.  But at least I could console myself that I could shoot at rats with my friends as we went through 35 empty jumps of low-sec and null-sec while we hope for maybe getting a fight somewhere… somewhen.

Only, no, not any fucking more, because some CCP dev decided to make an “unannounced change”.  Now I have to go to fucking purgatory for a few hours and shoot fucking red crosses by myself.  In an MMO.  So there I am a couple of weeks later bombing around low-sec asteroid belts in a frigate looking for something to shoot at while I’m in fucking purgatory shooting red crosses by myself when a Hurricane shows up… looks at me… and warps off.  I could practically hear his thought process: “Nah, I’m not going GCC or spending hours ratting for a frigate.”

Fucking :CCP:!

You know what this is, CCP?  This is a low-sec nerf!  Congratulations!  You’ve just nerfed low-sec!  The people who live in low-sec don’t care about this change.  They’re already -10.  Do they give a shit about ratting to get sec status back up?  They do not.  Do suicide gankers care about getting their sec status up?  No, they don’t care either.  They’ve figured out how to live quite happily in high-sec despite being -10.  Do they give a shit about ratting to get sec status back up?  They do not.

Know who the only people who care about this change are?  The people who might casually visit low-sec and might casually shoot people while they’re there!  Only now they’re not going to be so casual about it because if they casually shoot someone, they pay the price of being sent to fucking purgatory to shoot red crosses by themselves for hours.  So, yeah, better to not shoot.  Guys, don’t go GCC for that frigate.  We can start shooting at people when we get to null.

You’ve just nerfed low-sec!  And God knows that low-sec needed it because it was such an interesting, dynamic part of the game before.

Fucking :CCP:!

I received the following reply to the bug report:

Hello and thank you for your report. However, the behaviour described was changed so that only the person laying the final blow to the killed NPC is credited for the kill and therefore gains sec status. Regards, BH Mozgalom

:CCP:, the good news here is that there are approximately ten thousand ways to fix this nerf you’ve inflicted.  Here’s five examples.  Please fucking pick one:

  • Change it fucking back.
  • The worst pirates in the game are capsuleers, right?  Give me sec status for shooting at player pirates with low sec status where I find them.
  • Let me bribe CONCORD to fix my sec status, with either ISK or CONCORD LP.
  • Fuck, let me pay Aurum to CONCORD to fix my sec status.
  • Bring back the old “DED Connections” skill and change it so that I get even higher sec status from shooting rats instead of higher money.

:CCP:, I don’t pay a subscription to this game to be forced into fucking purgatory to do shit for hours that’s not fucking fun.  Fix this.  Now.

Garth out!

The preceding has been an important message from Jester’s evil twin, Garth.  The management apologizes to any and all whom Garth may have offended.  He said something that made sense once, but that was a long time ago.

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51 Comments

  1. bagehi

    Why you don't get sec status for shooting someone with negative sec status:

    Bad Guy 1 "I have bad sec status"

    Bad Guy 2 "I do also"

    Bad Guy 1 "I just bought 100 cheap frigates and t1 guns, I'll give you half. You kill me and I'll kill you and we'll be back to positive sec status quickly."

    Bad Guy 2 "Deal"

    If CCP didn't see that coming, I'm sure someone either mentioned it or did it on SISI.

    March 12, 2012 at 2:44 pm Reply
    1. stoicspoon

      That is more work than killing rats AND it wastes your money instead of giving you money, like NPCs would.

      It also generates tons of loss mails that would mess with your ranking on killboards, and pirates often care a ton about such things.

      Unless it was massively faster than killing NPCs, I don't see this as a problem.

      March 12, 2012 at 3:06 pm Reply
      1. bagehi

        Depends on the ease of access to rats and the sec status bonus for doing it, as compared to killing another player.

        But honestly, the more CCP monkey with the way sec status hits work, the more people are pushed to make throw-aways for shooting people in empire (which is already what most people do), or do the goon "ship out of an orca" gank thing.

        March 12, 2012 at 3:13 pm Reply
    2. bagehi 2

      yeah but what this guy just explained is still fucked and needs to be fixed

      March 12, 2012 at 3:09 pm Reply
      1. bagehi

        Definitely agreed.

        March 12, 2012 at 3:10 pm Reply
    3. Cynic

      Rote lives right next to lowesc and their (far as i know) only blue, Veto, are their lowsec allies. (all at -10) However, Rote likes the ability to travel freely to do that carebearing they never do. So my guess, He's still raging they live in crappy space and have to deal with crappy rules because they can't (won't) relocate. What i read from this is "The rules are being stacked against us leet PvPers" [Karma is a bitch aint it]

      That being said, CCP should've announced that change as it does affect the way some people will rat out in low/null. Or maybe they didn't as an experiment to see how much they could placate the highsec residents by trying to add another speed bump to the gankers.

      March 12, 2012 at 3:10 pm Reply
      1. guest

        "trying to add another speed bump to the gankers"

        [sarcasm] Because there are so many casual gankers out there. This will surely have a significant impact overall on the ganker/gankee equilibrium. [/sarcasm]

        I see a few alternatives:
        – "We were just messing around with the code. We didn't know this was important. It happened, soz." (but don't make any plan to change it back)
        – "We were trying to sort some obscure part of the code. We saw a potential gain and evaluated this was not important. We removed this feature to improve performance." (as if!!)
        – "Well, we were trying to balance ganking mechanics, but didn't want to raise a big discussion right now. Just make a few small adjustments."

        At any rate, I don't think they have any clue about what they are doing.

        I don't know why so many Eve players have such a confidence that they will get aggression mechanics/wardecs right, since they are rewriting those systems now and not telling us anything about it.

        March 12, 2012 at 4:21 pm Reply
    4. Dutchman

      Why is it possible to bribe CONCORD to look the other way from hostilities between 2 corporations for a measly 2mil isk (wardec, for the slow ones), but it's impossible to bribe CONCORD to raise your sec status?

      March 12, 2012 at 4:55 pm Reply
      1. Zak Z

        I think paying CONCORD to raise your Sec is a bad idea. It simply makes things *too easy*. There should be some sort of punishment, or "rehab" for your Sec, more than just shelling out some coin.

        I also agree – yes – the sec hit thing is fucked, and should be fixed somehow.
        I like the Sec-For-Shooting-Player-Pirates idea, but I don't think it can be implemented as is due to the potential for abuse, as stated.
        Perhaps looking at adding better Sec bonuses for participating in Incursions or FW? Increasing the Sec improvements you get for individual rat kills?

        I dunno.

        March 13, 2012 at 12:11 am Reply
    5. Wiu Ming

      this is actually one of the better ideas Jipard/Rarth/Gester has put forth imo. simply award status to one or the other to avoid that scenario.

      let the unwashed masses duke it out over whether the aggressor (hey, i'm going after pirates, i'm a good guy now!), or the defender (he shot first, i'm just defending myself) gets to be the beneficiary.

      March 12, 2012 at 9:23 pm Reply
    6. Wombat King

      What if you only got sec for shooting players with a lower sec status and not in the same Corp/Alliance/Blue.

      Subjected to the same 15 mins per system mechanic (or biggest sec difference kill – similar to the "highest bounty" mechanic currently in place for rats.
      In conjucntion with this the sec gain could be scaled for whether it was a frig, cruiser, BC, T1, T2, T3 kill etc etc. thus making "farming sec" expensive. So laying waste to 50 rifters would be slow, agnoising and purgatorious but laying waste to ur 50 maelstroms would be relatively rapid but horribly costly. (Though good for whoever happens to be selling those Maels :P)
      Sec for Isk mechanic right there, in an elegant EvE fashion :)

      Also, bear in mind aggressing a player of -ve sec higher than -5.0 will null and void what you are doing anyway 😛

      March 13, 2012 at 12:45 am Reply
      1. Buggrit

        Then I make an alt, put it to -10, then shoot the crap out of it for a while until I'm shining new.

        March 13, 2012 at 1:07 pm Reply
  2. Space Jesus

    I endorse this product and/or service.

    March 12, 2012 at 3:00 pm Reply
  3. DRF is fun

    All i read is a high sec gankers cry for attention….
    let me explain:
    1. as you yourself so nicely explained. LowSec residents are already -10 and dont care about the change.
    2. 0.0 are either same as LowSec residents and dont care, or have positive sec status becuase they dont get -sec status for shooting people in 0.0 and again, dont care
    3. Only people that get -sec status for shooting people and care enought about still being in highsec are: High sec gankers, or low sec PvP players that run to highsec the second they are losing.

    ergo, you fall in categorie 3 and therefor are a emo crybaby.

    dtl: stfu and spend some time doing missions if you want positive sec status and still gank people outside 0.0. Or go live in lowsec / 0.0 and fuck your sec status

    March 12, 2012 at 3:09 pm Reply
    1. Some Guy

      Please don't assume that all residents of lowsec care not about their sec status because they are all -10. Most people that I run with would love to have a way to get their sec status back that doesn't include grinding rats in some remote end of nulsec for a few days because they decided to spend 5~ minutes shooting at something/someone. Some choose not to because of the effort it takes to get it to a point where we can traverse through hisec without having to deal with the popo. The only place sec status has a place is in HighSec. Gateguns, station guns, and GCC should remain in lowsec…but the ridiculous sec hit for PvPing there is overboard.

      March 12, 2012 at 5:17 pm Reply
      1. jake

        I've been -10 (]or close to it) for the past 3 years or so. I grinded up to about -4 when Iived in Venal this year and last year also some time when I lived in Delve.

        It is sooo fucking horrible…I rather camp station with my 2 carriers + machariel pooning noobs.

        March 12, 2012 at 6:57 pm Reply
        1. Fuckin Jew

          If it takes you 2 carriers and a mach to pwn noobs than I suggest you look in the mirror son.

          March 13, 2012 at 12:12 am Reply
          1. truefacts

            haha that was funny + 1

            March 13, 2012 at 7:29 am
    2. Random Miner

      This makes perfect sense to me; prepare to get neg repped to shit for it… lol

      March 13, 2012 at 12:33 am Reply
    3. Jita runs

      Whatever dude,

      What about people who want to live in lowsec without needing a jita alt to buy crap for them.

      March 13, 2012 at 4:11 am Reply
  4. stoicspoon

    They need to rethink security status and criminal behavior as a whole.

    March 12, 2012 at 3:17 pm Reply
    1. Anonymouse

      Agreed, and they said they are, so we'll see what they are thinking soonTM.

      March 12, 2012 at 3:39 pm Reply
    2. Cynic

      Very true, but to do so without an outcry is nigh impossible. This is a case where no matter what they do, they're gonna tick some group off. Which is probably part of the reasons they don't do anything about it. Sooner or later, they are going to have to say 'screw it, we're making this change and let that group adapt or cry themselves to sleep.'

      March 12, 2012 at 3:42 pm Reply
    3. guest

      Indeed, but the players would very much like to be informed of any changes made, instead of being forced to figure out what went on every time a stealth change is done.

      March 12, 2012 at 3:59 pm Reply
  5. Lol

    He sounds mad. 😉

    March 12, 2012 at 3:42 pm Reply
  6. Abso

    The point is there's no upside to this change.

    Either you have to spend time shooting rats alone, which is no fun, or you can't look for fights in lowsec, which is also no fun.

    So they changed something that wasn't broken and the change is bad for everyone it affects.

    Long story short, :CCP:

    March 12, 2012 at 3:55 pm Reply
  7. McWiener

    nice rant Jester, you should vent more

    March 12, 2012 at 4:00 pm Reply
  8. RedEls

    killing NPC rats in null- and low-sec has been changed. About a month ago, players started to notice that shooting these rats no longer granted them security status increases unless you were the player that inflicted the final blow on the rat.

    1. pirate didnt geave any **** about it back then nether they do now.
    2 people who go to low sec to pew pew from time to time coud also go hunting pirates instead, or let other party agress them first what is even better (since if you died you have 30 days for sweet round 2 :P)
    3 dont see the point that you need to kill a rat whit your friends couse it melts in seconds by your self anyway and ther are more then plenty to kill.
    4 if you care about your sec to much go pvp in 00 or wh space instead.
    5 from all the things i seen this is the most absurde statment like most of us wants to have it changed asap instead of letting ccp spend ther time on more importand stuff like fixing the oh so hot titan killed my rifter topics ^^

    yes i know my speling is not that great xD

    мы какоита хренои здес занемаемся 😀

    March 12, 2012 at 4:02 pm Reply
  9. Olsson

    Pirate tears sweetest tears.

    March 12, 2012 at 4:04 pm Reply
  10. Lol

    I like the idea of getting a sec bonus for shooting bad guys. What do rats have to do with it anyway? (And in the drone regions we don´t get any sec increase anyhow)

    Or maybe flying a logi ship and saving your friends/ random people could make up for cimes committed in the past. Sure would solve the logi pilot shortness in 0.0. 😉

    March 12, 2012 at 4:06 pm Reply
  11. A-Di-Das

    Tracking Titans amirite?

    March 12, 2012 at 4:15 pm Reply
    1. RedEls

      oh yeh xD

      March 12, 2012 at 4:31 pm Reply
  12. RedEls

    i think that the joke is that some dude got butthurted of sec hit do to mindlesly engaging everything in lowsec and then crying for a change couse he/she fergot the fact that in eve everything you do got consecuentes. and then he or she blaming the ccp for not caring about it xD

    March 12, 2012 at 4:29 pm Reply
  13. 0.0 Toon

    THIS IS A FUCKING JOKE. CCP NEED TO CHANGE IT BACK. ITS A LOW SEC NERF WHEN EVERYONE IS SAYING LOW SEC NEEDS MORE TO ATTRACT PEOPLE TO IT. I MEAN SERIOUSLY. CCP TRY AND USE SOME COMMON SENCE, YOU HAVE MADE MORE PEOPLE UNHAPPY THAN HAPPY WITH THIS CHANGE, THERE FOR ITS A BAD CHANGE. CORRECT THIS ASAP. :)

    March 12, 2012 at 4:35 pm Reply
  14. D34CSM7

    We are even now mobilizing -10 characters to go to Jita and begin mass podding. No Idea of how many will assist, I may be alone I dont know. Crime and punishment forum is where I started by making a post calling people to action. I will be spending the rest of my ingame ISK buying and fitting thrashers for free to all who wish to participate. I may be resigning my CSM seat over this, and I may end up making public apology to Mittani if thats required to garner his support. CCP have cowardly stealth nerfed our way of life and I do not see the point in playing and certainly will not pay a company money that behaves this way.

    Bag, Riv-please do not remove this comment it is genuine and not a troll

    March 12, 2012 at 4:41 pm Reply
  15. No one important

    "• The worst pirates in the game are capsuleers, right? Give me sec status for shooting at player pirates with low sec status where I find them."

    This is a great idea.

    March 12, 2012 at 4:58 pm Reply
  16. skullair

    i noticed this change when assfrigs were buffed… we would run into (2-3 guys) in assfrigs around GW to work sec back up over -5 at times

    Now its pointless and takes longer then a day

    March 12, 2012 at 5:50 pm Reply
  17. 0.0 player

    Now it' s even harder to raise my sec status so I can get better missions. Yet another change that makes it easier for me to play if I have multiple alts

    March 12, 2012 at 6:40 pm Reply
  18. Sup

    Incursions raise sec status. Just saying.

    March 12, 2012 at 7:05 pm Reply
    1. Wombat King

      They give bugger all

      March 13, 2012 at 12:48 am Reply
  19. -A- FC

    Waa I cant go thru low sec and kill random people without long term repercussions… fucking funny shit.

    Garth bitter tears best bitter tears..

    If your a bad guy your a bad guy if your a good guy you can kill bad guys without worrying about the sentry guns in low sec.. If your a bad guy you have more bad guys helping you on gates reping and stuff and helping you kill the good guys till the good guys form some horrible tinhat alliance you can go destroy.

    You also have an alt for buying/hauling shit or join some bad guys that can run a market in low sec.. not hard is it? Most true low sec -10 people do this no problem?

    It should be a hard grind to regain status, in fact shooting random rats shouldn't count in my book, you should have to grind thru some truely horrible concord manure hauling missions in lowsec or something terrible like that. LOL

    More tears! Eve 'Bad ass Garth scourge of eve' crying cause he can't regain sec to be a highsec +sec bear again lol funny shit..

    March 12, 2012 at 7:35 pm Reply
    1. lipps

      you are a fucktard , go play hello kitty island adventure you fucking moron.

      March 12, 2012 at 8:17 pm Reply
  20. unbalanced

    OK so 10 dudes shoot at someone in lowsec and they all take a sec status hit.

    But 10 dudes shoot at belt rats but only the final blow gets the sec status.

    What the hell is this?

    March 12, 2012 at 7:36 pm Reply
    1. droljica

      Wellcome to the ccp's world, where real bull$hitt starts.

      March 12, 2012 at 9:28 pm Reply
  21. Cannonball1

    I'm pretty sure 90% of 0.0 pilots just thought, "I'm sorry, why should I care that much about my sec status?" Man up and come where the pvp is.

    That being said, the "kill rights" mechanic is really dumb.

    March 12, 2012 at 8:44 pm Reply
  22. Troll Father

    Confirming, all I got from this post was "fuck,fuck fuck fuck shit fuck you fuck you,Ccp ,shit fuck" did imiss anything?wut ran out of -A- battlereports???

    March 12, 2012 at 10:03 pm Reply
  23. Devore

    Butthurt pirate is butthurt? If you want to shoot people without a hit to security, go do it in 0.0? Actions -> consequences. Low sec isn't the wild wild west.

    March 12, 2012 at 10:49 pm Reply
  24. adcerbic commentator

    t’s hard to tell, when they fuck something up, if:

    • they’ve fucked it up deliberately, know that they’re going to catch shit from the players for fucking it up, and want to pretend like they don’t know how to fix it (or even how it was broken) because EVE players will believe that because — after all — :CCP:.

    This.
    Fucked up, or designed to make things better for the casual Hisec noob/industrialist/wussie. Here, CCP takes some of the risk from lowsec because, hey, Dicksquad and others are ganking Hisec incursions. Or, CCP want everyone to do shit together all the time, like Incursions. That promotes group membership, which makes it "stickier" – pay every month to fly with your buds, that's stickier than solo. Or … who the fuck knows, maybe it sell monocles.
    One way or another, its Hilmar and his VC fucks and his marketing weasels.

    March 12, 2012 at 11:21 pm Reply
  25. sec status sucks

    Most comments disagreeing with jester come from people who have obviously never lived in lowsec and probably don't even pvp.
    You get horrible income from grinding sec (spend most of time warping between systems) and it takes well over 10 hours of the most boring carebearing imaginable to do this.
    -10 makes eve life unbearably annoying. Everytime you lose a ship in low or null its a huge ordeal to use alts to get a new one especially if you lose a t2 ship which means you have to spend months of training time on an alt you will never use.
    Keep gate guns but remove sec status loss in low sec

    March 13, 2012 at 12:07 am Reply
  26. sephiroth clone

    "Let me bribe CONCORD to fix my sec status, with either ISK or CONCORD LP.
    • Fuck, let me pay Aurum to CONCORD to fix my sec status."

    Lol, consequences matter in this game. Pirate problem can't be easily fixed, a problem?

    March 13, 2012 at 6:27 am Reply
  27. The Observer

    I am a low-sec pirate, and I condone this message.

    …:CCP:

    March 15, 2012 at 4:39 pm Reply

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