CCP has decided not to name and shame, but I do not share their compunctions.  Sreegs (AKA Darius JOHNSON of Goonie fame) has been very active in responding to the community on the recent bot purge after posting this dev blog.  The “community” and the forum in question that caught wind of the purge was kugu.  If you want to follow those events, here is the thread (there is also a corresponding FHC thread by the same poster here).  It seems h-bot has finally met its doom.


Or has it? Pilots who were white knighting by actively hunting botters made comments like this:

(7:51:59 PM) sendo: the system i’d been killing bots in has 0 npc kills in last 24 hours now
(7:52:07 PM) sendo: opposed to like 13k previously

From the sound of things, they hit some Questor bots as well like this guy:

7 of my 84 bots got banned for 15 days + got ban on 2 non bot char who anyway where moving stuff around for the bots (such as freighter chars)

Removing some is better than giving them free reign, I guess.  Though, those 84 accounts equate to a faucet of up to 87 billion isk per day (assuming they are all missioning 24/7 – reality probably pushes that towards half that).  This, my dear readers, was posted by the well known botter, Horus (we posted an interview with him here).  A player who gained fame recently under the character A Puppetmaster for his part in the destruction of first Imperial Order (sniffle, I lost ships in that emergency evac… jerk), then the greater feat of White Noise, and recently rumored to have been working on NCdot.  Now, if you haven’t thought this through yet, you might be wondering why people keep letting them into alliances, despite their record of killing alliances. They funnel enormous amounts of isk into alliances to keep quiet and let them bot.

Horus seems to have only lost 7 bot accounts.  More than that, he showed up in the kugu thread to say he was only hit with 2 week bans, so nothing permanent.  The next day (today), this showed up in the Italian news.  Basically, a GM banned a 25 year old Italian Eve player, who had threatened to kill himself if a ban for cheating was made permanent.  The rumor was that this too was Horus, AKA A Puppetmaster. He later denied it was him, claiming he lives in Bolognia, roughly 400km away from the person in that news article.  However, it came to light that his corp CEO, Obi Skywalker, does in fact live in Livorno Italy.  So, Obi may have actually been handed a few permas. Karma.

Currently, no assets have been removed from the game (according to the dev blog thread). So, unlike the last purge where a few titans reportedly disappeared, nothing drastic seems to have happened.  If everyone is to be believed (trust people’s words in my internet spaceships?), there are a few major botting networks that have been dented, but are still very much operational.  I do hope that Sreegs continues to push against what I see as rampant botting in Eve. It is bad for the game. I conversely hope that CCP really starts taking to heart how dumbed down and absolutely boring most of the PVE in the game is and does something about it, that might actually reduce the ease of running bots at the same time.  All this said, I don’t think there is a risk that we will log in tomorrow and find any alliances gutted. In fact, I don’t think this kind of risk is even in the foreseeable future.

Good work to Sreegs and the team.  Screw you Puppetmaster (with all the love I can muster having lost almost 800m isk worth of stuff I could not evac) and your “team.”


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  1. Ivanda Nothabeer

    Quote … CCP has decided not to name and shame, but I do not share their compunctions.

    You'll be applying the same ethics to the NDA if youre elected then ????

    March 1, 2012 at 11:49 pm Reply
    1. bagehi

      Let's look at the name of the author before posting shall we?

      March 1, 2012 at 11:55 pm Reply
      1. Karbox Delacroix

        Bagehi and Riverini are the same person, like Michael and Janet Jackson.

        March 2, 2012 at 12:03 am Reply
        1. bagehi

          Riverini isn't coming to Fanfest this year, so you'll have to wait until next year's fanfest for us to be in the same room. Perhaps the universe will explode?

          March 2, 2012 at 12:14 am Reply
          1. DarthNefarius

            Jita SERVERS will crash & hamsters will escape & chew you to bits like Kenny in
            South Park

            March 2, 2012 at 12:22 am
          2. BETA BABY

            Great post man; keeping the motivation alive to wreck these bots profits via markets and blue agression timers :)

            March 2, 2012 at 7:29 pm
      2. DarthNefarius

        Ivanda must think your T20 or RIV? :) he needs another shot & a beer then if he can't see stright anywayz

        March 2, 2012 at 12:09 am Reply
  2. solar ally

    "Basically, a GM banned a 25 year old Italian Eve player, who had threatened to kill himself if a ban for cheating was made permanent"

    u mad bro?

    March 1, 2012 at 11:49 pm Reply
    1. thejester

      emo much bro lol

      March 2, 2012 at 12:04 am Reply
    2. sup

      He must really live in his mums basement… Like most Italian dudes under the age of 30, LOL

      March 2, 2012 at 1:07 am Reply
  3. Snuffle


    March 1, 2012 at 11:57 pm Reply
  4. Eas_

    You should see the hbot forums. They are talking about legal action against CCP and think that it will all go away once CCP loses income from them. It is hilarious.

    March 2, 2012 at 12:01 am Reply
    1. DarthNefarius

      I hope they file suit & the countersuites will force Interpol to action against the botters lol
      CCP then could comvievably start putting leins on their PayPal accounts

      March 2, 2012 at 12:25 am Reply
    2. M1k3y

      LOL, I'd like to see their argument!

      "We broke CCP's rules and got banned so WERE GONNA FRIVOLOUSLY SUE THEIR SORRY ASS!!!"

      Ohh… Its even funnier than I hoped! 😀

      March 2, 2012 at 12:36 am Reply
      1. Eas_

        Some know that they are fucked and know they can't do anything about it. Others think they have been wronged and it is stomping all over their rights as consumers or some shit.

        Here is one post.( This guy is a serious elawyer aka he is screaming out of his ass)

        "It still doesn't matter. EULA is in fact crap because consumer laws are more powerfull. There are companies that make some agreements that are against the consumer law and they got punished for that. It doesn't matter you have signed up agreement that is against law, it's void because it's against the REAL LAW. Be aware that everything in EVE is CCP's, even your character, that's why you can RMT anything because your are selling somebodys property. So, I am not paying for my character, I pay for access to my account right? So if my access is taken and I payed for service that isn't served something really goes wrong. Ofc the way all game devs solve that problem is common and players don't argue about their laws and money. Want me to ban? Ok, I have violated EULA but give my money back."

        March 2, 2012 at 2:38 am Reply
        1. Devore

          "Want me to ban? Ok, I have violated EULA but give my money back."

          Oh sure, I don't doubt CCP would be thrilled to deposit 400M ISK into his locked accounts.

          eLawyers on internet forums = lulz. You sometimes see them post on EN24, about how they're going to sue CCP over some pixel triviality. Yeah? go ahead.

          March 2, 2012 at 3:57 am Reply
        2. Alex

          Too bad for him lol

          A. By CCP for Termination of the Game
          CCP does not guarantee that it will continue to offer access to the System or support the Game. CCP may, in its sole discretion, cease to provide any or all of the services offered in connection with EVE (including access to the System and any or all features or components of the Game), terminate the EULA, close all Accounts and cancel all of the rights granted to you under the EULA. CCP may communicate such termination to you upon 30 days notice in any of the following manners: (i) when you log into your Account; (ii) in a notice on CCP's website; (iii) via electronic mail; or (iv) in another manner that CCP deems suitable to inform you of the termination. If CCP terminates the EULA pursuant to this section, you will not receive a refund of prepaid subscription fees.

          March 2, 2012 at 4:05 am Reply
          1. nullisucks

            Well, that paragraph is basically 'the seller can, if he feels like it, .not give you what you pay for, and give you no refund either'. I can see how some places could have laws against that.

            March 2, 2012 at 4:55 am
          2. TestGruntBestGrunt

            It's a service, not a material good.

            It's not a seller, it's a service provider.

            That's the ultimate difference. You didn't buy anything from them. You subscribed to a service – which can then be terminated.

            March 2, 2012 at 8:13 am
          3. humptydumpty

            More like "The seller can refuse sale at any time, if buyer does not follow these rules"
            Or "If you take a shit in the corner, you are out of here, regardless if you finished your meal or not"

            March 2, 2012 at 11:02 am
          4. Trapped

            Its more along the lines of 'if you pay for your apartments rent for a year, and 3 months in get evicted for dealing drugs, you are not gonna get your rent money back'.

            Which is the way it works everywhere I ever heard of. If you violate your lease and get evicted, you are not gonna get your rent money back.

            March 2, 2012 at 12:21 pm
          5. Frodo the BOBit

            It's more like the owner kicking you out because you did something he does not approve of, like having a pet and refusing to give you the money back. Botting is not illegal in no country that I know of, just something CCP doesn't approve of.

            The aforementioned EULA paragraph is basically 'CCP reserves the right to refuse providing you a service you paid for whenever they feel like it and you're entitled to no compensation'. And that kind of contracts don't fly according to consumer protection laws in quite a few countries afaik.

            PS: I don't personally approve of botting(although EVE PVE is about as entertaining as watching paint dry).

            March 2, 2012 at 5:38 pm
        3. Tryri

          how did you get this ? you have bot there too ?

          March 2, 2012 at 10:26 am Reply
          1. Eas_

            You do know they are being posted all over eve related forums? Fail heap and even the official eve forums have them plus countless others.

            March 2, 2012 at 5:09 pm
      2. Bob_the_Bitcher

        One word EULA. Look it up!!! They are fucked :)

        They will have to disproving the principles of the EULA as opposed to CCP proving that the agreement is invalid.

        No judge is going to rule in favour of a group based on a breach of an already agreed agreement. Secondly its about resources. I bet CCP has more money than the botters. Also CCP may use in-game mechanics to deal with bots in a conventional manner.

        March 2, 2012 at 2:55 am Reply
        1. droljica

          EULA is shitt if u ask ccp s accounting…..

          March 3, 2012 at 9:07 pm Reply
    3. Urziel99

      Botter Tears. They are Delicious!

      March 2, 2012 at 3:00 am Reply
    4. Bot hunter

      I think the plex price will drop if they leave. Something I thin is is good for the "small man" in eve.

      March 2, 2012 at 7:40 am Reply
    5. CareBearStares

      Yeaaaah, I wish them good luck with that.

      Considering that there is growing legal precidence (atleast in US) upholding EULA violations consequences spelled out in said terms.
      And even in international context EULA has gained major legitimacy due to the International Trade Commission.

      Kneel before CCP! KNEEL!

      March 2, 2012 at 4:05 pm Reply
  5. Kimsemus

    With that kind of money?

    1) Account gets banned
    2) Buy 5 more botting characters off bazaar
    3) ??????
    4) PROFIT

    And the beat goes on!

    Honestly, I had read the botting article a few months ago, but didn't realize there was that kind of earning potential, color me naive I guess. I can definitely see why people do it, or for that matter, RMT it. You could literally quit your job and sustain yourself entirely on botting.

    March 2, 2012 at 12:02 am Reply
    1. CnC

      RMT was a multi-million dollar business back in the days of EverQuest….

      It's only increased in the last decade… in activity and profit.

      March 2, 2012 at 1:19 am Reply
  6. DarthNefarius

    I hope more botter KILL THEMSELVES & not make false empty promises!

    March 2, 2012 at 12:07 am Reply
    1. DarthNefarius

      I hope Italian police arrest him & put him on suicide watch

      March 2, 2012 at 12:14 am Reply
    2. Slartybartfast

      don't be a dick.

      March 2, 2012 at 12:20 am Reply
    3. M1k3y

      Yea that's a little harsh… Botters should be permabanned if they can be proven to be bots, if its just someone reporting go through the 14 day 30 day perma thing.

      Botters shouldn't bot but wishing they die is just…. such a dick move…

      March 2, 2012 at 12:41 am Reply
      1. Carlos

        i am sure CCP has implemented a detection method by now that can prove it. For example you can generate like a hidden key within eve library. If this key is not generated properly then you know its an external program hijacking eve libraries. I would say CCP has implemented something like that.
        This all is a supposition but everyting has a solution if you know how to fight it. The only difference is that the bots are gonna get clever and thn ccp has to adapt again…

        March 2, 2012 at 1:21 am Reply
        1. droljica


          and my cat can play piano

          March 3, 2012 at 9:05 pm Reply
      2. Bob_the_Bitcher

        I am all for banning the bastards permanently. I think the matter is flawed by virtue of someone just reporting a character.

        I trust that CCP has some evidence based mechanisms in place to prove it as opposed to a "I say so." basis.

        March 2, 2012 at 2:59 am Reply
  7. newsoul

    Problem is CCP can not afford to lose those 'botting account' so as usual the 'holy ban wave pre-fan fest' strikes again, but seriously, banning those peeps for 3 days aint gonna change much.

    March 2, 2012 at 12:27 am Reply
  8. Sebastian Hoch

    The botting problem is much much worse than just "bad for the game". Think of eve as a real economy and compare botting to the housing bubble. Botting makes the aggregate productivity artificially much higher than it would be without it which means there are more minerals, ice products, and isk (yes isk is produced) circulating through the game. Just like the housing bubble made it artificially easier for people to draw capital that did not exist.

    Now if CCP actually managed to halt most botting, everything would become scarcer, isk, minerals, ice ect. and it would become, in a short time, very difficult to acquire the the volume and quality of toys that we have grown to expect to come easily and cheaply. In a real economy productivity increases mean abundance-more for everyone and decreasing productivity means high prices and scarcity–less for everyone. The knock down effect would extend into every profession in the game as the economic velocity of eve is what makes trading, and production, and other professions, as lucrative as they are. In short Eve would have a economic bubble and collapse that would leave a most of us flying around in BC's and T1 cruisers for the foreseeable future. While many would argue that would make for a better game, it would seriously drive down a lot of players enthusiasm for playing and mean a lot of lost subs.

    No one has data on how big the botting problem really is, but let's use Horus' numbers as a gauge. If Horus lost 8.3% of his accounts, we can infer that the ~2500 accounts bannedd represent 8.3% of all botting accounts which puts the total botting activity at over 24,000 accounts or, using Bagehi's assumptions, botting probably produces about 12 trillion in botted isk per day or their material equivalents in Ice & Mins.

    Botting is too big to fail

    March 2, 2012 at 12:47 am Reply
  9. momijisu

    I want to know more about this attack by A Puppet Master. Sounds pretty interesting. Anyone got a link?

    March 2, 2012 at 1:05 am Reply
    1. bagehi

      Which attack?

      March 2, 2012 at 1:36 am Reply
      1. momijisu

        The one the writer of the news article kept harking on about. "Screw you Puppetmaster (with all the love I can muster having lost almost 800m isk worth of stuff I could not evac) and your “team.”"

        March 2, 2012 at 1:41 am Reply
        1. bagehi

          I wrote the article. He didn't attack anything. He pulled one of those ninja disband the alliance tricks on Imperial Order.

          March 2, 2012 at 2:43 am Reply
          1. momijisu

            oh, I see! Thanks for letting me know, any news articles reporting the incident? Sorry for your losses =(

            March 2, 2012 at 2:46 am
          2. bagehi
            March 2, 2012 at 2:51 am
          3. Corteztk

            Sniff I miss IO I haven't had the time to get back into FCing since then. We used to roll over Controlled Caos. LOL reading the comments below that article though is funny. Bunch of controlled caos dudes talking smack. Where are they now? It's only a matter of time before they are AAA renters.

            March 2, 2012 at 1:18 pm
  10. boo

    If PVE wasnt so god awful boring then botting would not be as rampant in the game.

    March 2, 2012 at 1:22 am Reply
  11. Tempest

    I was tempted to RMT due to the economy in the real world, instead I decided not too as too keep my honor and make this game at least a little better. But these people, don't have honor nor any self restraint, all they think about is their own profits not about fun or enjoyment. I say let them freeze in hell for all I care.

    March 2, 2012 at 1:59 am Reply
    1. Dick Cheezburger

      "Let them freeze in hell"…who talks like that?

      March 2, 2012 at 2:38 pm Reply
      1. CareBearStares

        Um.. looks like that dude ^ Tempest does for one.

        March 2, 2012 at 4:12 pm Reply
    2. huh

      Isnt hell kinda hot?

      March 2, 2012 at 3:26 pm Reply
      1. CareBearStares

        Depends on the 'owning faith' of said hell.

        March 2, 2012 at 4:12 pm Reply
  12. Anon

    What the fuck is the point in playing a game when you're not really playing?

    March 2, 2012 at 2:07 am Reply
    1. CnC

      I'd take a passive 1billion ISK/day if it wasn't breaking the rules…

      Pretty sure you would too!

      March 2, 2012 at 2:31 am Reply
      1. BETA BABY

        Play markets, make buy orders and build a BS fleets @ 1isk a unit thanks to botters / morons…. Passive billions without botting? Yes, but it's math; all power to the math.

        So yes, I do make the billions passively; while I fly around blue to you and agress you for the neutral fleets that hunt bots.

        March 2, 2012 at 7:20 pm Reply
    2. Prohorovka

      PvE in Eve hardly qualifies as 'playing' anyway

      March 2, 2012 at 9:52 am Reply
  13. Mirrodin

    It's important to note in the article (To stop all the whiners) that Characters that are caught botting and temp-banned are then LOCKED TO THE ACCOUNT and can no longer be traded/sold.

    March 2, 2012 at 2:10 am Reply
  14. Digiblast


    In the end CCP lose.

    March 2, 2012 at 2:16 am Reply
  15. " "

    Bagehi how did you lose 800m in the I0 evac? you lived there?

    March 2, 2012 at 2:45 am Reply
    1. bagehi

      My corp had just joined IO…. moved my crap in… then the alliance was ninja disbanded.

      March 2, 2012 at 3:12 am Reply
      1. The Observer

        Yeah, I miss IO too. Vamp was the man. lol

        March 2, 2012 at 7:10 pm Reply
  16. goodfites

    it amuses me to see all these quotes from the h-bot forums, to have access one would need to be a paying customer therefore a botter or have at least parted with $40 to access said forums

    March 2, 2012 at 3:29 am Reply
  17. Sebastian Hoch

    The botting problem is much much worse than just "bad for the game". Think of eve as a real economy and compare botting to the housing bubble. Botting makes the aggregate productivity artificially much higher than it would be without it which means there are more minerals, ice products, and isk (yes isk is produced) circulating through the game because of bots. Just like the housing bubble made it artificially easier for people to draw capital that did not exist.

    Now if CCP where able to kill most botting they vastly reduce aggregate productivity and everything would be scarce and expensive putting most of us in BS's and T1 cruisers. You may say this would be good for the game, but without flashy toys a lot of people would unsub.

    If we use Horus' statement as a guide, 8.3% of bots where banned. If ~1500 bots where banned in all, then the total botting population is just above 18,00 and produces, by Bagehi's estimate of 1/2B per bot, 9 Trillion in ISK or equivalent materials per day. 90 titans per day.

    Now CCP holds all the strings, but I don't see them acting quickly to re-balance the economy if they could drive out all botting. It would take a full year run up to a major release.

    Botting is too big to fail.

    March 2, 2012 at 3:42 am Reply
  18. VitoBratta

    lolololo that little bastard got reported to Interpol, I bet it is wannabe Puppetmaster, What a neckbeard.

    March 2, 2012 at 5:01 am Reply
  19. tub chil

    I approve this

    March 2, 2012 at 7:18 am Reply
  20. chaky

    who cares about dead dumbass? he denied eula, so ccp cannot be blamed by international laws. let him kill himself, his life is anyways worthless if he wants to do that because of game.

    March 2, 2012 at 7:29 am Reply
  21. AAAAAAh

    Jesus Christ are you guys not stagerred about this as i am? There is so many of EVE boters that they are ORGANISING JOINT EFFORT to sue CCP?
    Aside the fact they are obviously retards (who would have thought, right?) sheere size of them is just like wow.

    This is madness all, EVE is sooo screwed if they dont kcik them out and i mean HARSHLY and THOROUGHLY .

    March 2, 2012 at 10:26 am Reply
  22. Arlekyn

    The only way to stop the botters is to prevent the bots (the software) from running. I used to play the game (and bot some) and I remember I was making usually more than 1bil a day (was more like 2 to 4bils, but also expensive ships lost). Been doing it 23/24 sometimes, never got a temp ban, not even a warning. So basically a botter needs about a week to get a new skilled enough character to resume his activity. Back when I used to play, I was aiming at getting myself a titan out of botting, but stopped somewhere half way there (about 45bils in my wallets) and lost interest in the game. Before botting, the game had its charm, used to be an active player, enjoying 0.0 large scale pvp (and the lag). Once I realized I could loose 10 recons, couple of t3's and several battleships in a week, and still recover that isk during couple of sweet nights sleep, was the moment I lost any pleasure and thrill in Eve Online. So, yeah, you can say bots also messed me up. End of confession :)

    March 2, 2012 at 11:06 am Reply
    1. Grimm the TRUE!

      I are forgiven my son for confessing, now you can go suck a dick couse fucks like you don't realise in time they are fucking a decent game comparing to all thecraps out there on the market.

      March 4, 2012 at 8:04 am Reply
  23. dr0ljica

    There are no bots in jita…. there are no rmt alliances…. secure booting systems do not exist in 0.0…. CCP started great job only for comunity and players base…. geymorons are friendly…. CS is fast …. oh, and yes, there are allways some retards that are doi'n for free job that ccp should do.

    March 2, 2012 at 11:55 am Reply
  24. Il merda

    Thank you Krall Amarr/Horus/A Puppetmaster and TH3 UnT0uChaBl3S we italians are considered the faggot for you

    March 2, 2012 at 4:44 pm Reply
    1. BETA BABY

      ^^He's mad bro… Ya'll got fine woman get em nekkid and on youtube to fix this please.

      March 2, 2012 at 7:22 pm Reply

    legalize it and tax they asses 40% while limiting them to a work day of 10 hours before auto logout, and require them to purchase a special program from CCP …$$$ and ship….ISK. seems like it a market for it in game as long ait is under CCP control. IMO

    March 2, 2012 at 5:01 pm Reply
    1. sour

      this kind of mentality has got the rl world to where it is now pffft

      March 2, 2012 at 5:47 pm Reply

        IJS beats perma ban

        March 2, 2012 at 6:16 pm Reply
  26. bgt

    what is the difference between old NC with NC.?

    March 2, 2012 at 5:32 pm Reply
    1. Imigo

      Old NC used to hold the north, NC. are Triumvirate mk LXVII who hated the old NC so much that they named themselves after them.

      March 3, 2012 at 3:17 am Reply
  27. Imigo

    I'm so happy right now. Here's to Screegs keeping it up as a regular event.

    March 2, 2012 at 8:02 pm Reply
  28. Imigo

    "i lost ALL my accounts in a permaban last year

    many not botting toons


    because i paid ISK for H-Bot thru this forum [with permission] and the guy got caught for RMT'ing and so i was linked to it and the ban hammer never lifted for me, 90m sp toons down the drain Sad "


    March 2, 2012 at 8:18 pm Reply
  29. M1k3y
    March 3, 2012 at 6:15 pm Reply
  30. Epicfail

    We should not forget that Horus aka A Puppetmaster, was previously known as the infamous Krall Amarr, the one who got repeatedly scammed for devastating amounts of isks, who disintegrated ION Core, Fallen Souls and YouWhat and who is being bullied by the entire EvE community since ages, along with his faithful pet Obi Skywalker.

    what i find extremely entertaining is that these two guys firmly believe they are excellent pvpers, skilled diplomatics and so influential that they regularly determine balance of powers within the game.

    March 14, 2012 at 7:41 am Reply

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