Razor Alliance might be the ninth alliance in game member-wise but when you take a look at the map you figure them places at No. 70 Sov-Wise. Still they have been pretty active lately, showing up not only as GoonSwarm shock-troops but also running their own roams. Here is a nerd-leak regarding their new “philosophy”, centered around the Gallente Deimos power-plant. There is no need to explain the homo-erotic and phallic connotations within the ship’s trim-lines. In the words of the Hawk; this ship is definitely “queerer than we can suppose.” Other than that, the author makes some really interesting insights.

Before you scroll down to the comments without reading the article, think of this: I recall RZR testing the A-HAC doctrine a full year before Pandemic Legion made it “chic”. Besides, at last some lovin’ for the Oneiros.

Leak: Meet the “DongCats” – RZR new doctrine.

TL;DR
This is a dual-prop a-hac fleet that counters supercaps, bombs, and missile spam. The Deimos has a strong tank and is the primary damage dealer, and also has a tackle mod and a small neut (it’s more powerful than you think). The Oneiros is even harder to kill than the Deimos, and reps like a beast. Our primary objective is to remove webbing ships and logi ships from the field.

DongCats Overview:

Note that this doctrine is in the very early planning stages and may never be used.

This as a twist on A-HAC. With the inevitable increase in bombs and tracking-titan spamming, battleship and BC and fleets will lose their effectiveness. This solves that problem. Additionally, some of the biggest drawbacks of a-hacs were their limited speed and their susceptibility to Drakes and Tengus (especially at range). Those two drawbacks have been eliminated, but this fleet is still susceptible to ECM-heavy fleets and to short-range battleships, especially if those battleships have a lot of webbing and neuting power.

Dongcats should be strong against Drakes, Tengus, and long-range battleships. In each case, we need to remove dedicated webbers and logistics first.

An added bonus: you can roam in these ships. Replace most webs with scrams and go tear shit up, a-hac style.

The core ships:

Deimos (dual prop, extra midslot has a mix of webs, scrams (nice for drakes) and faction disruptors
Oneiros (10mn AB)
Damnation (WC position, target painter, all armor links, cap stable without smartbombs running)
Loki (FC position, unprobable, all skirmish links)

Optional additional ships:

Zealot (dual prop, 1:1 ratio of disruptors and webs)
Stabber Fleet Issue (dual prop, one web, one disruptor)
Loki (long webs)

Fittings for select ships:
(if you can fly a Deimos or Oneiros, you need to be in it!)

[spoiler show=”Show Deimos fit”]

[Deimos, gstorm, mix webs, scrams, faction disruptors]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
10MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I

Vespa II x5

[/spoiler]

[spoiler show=”Show the Oneiros fit”]

[Oneiros, gstorm]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II

10MN Afterburner II
Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium ‘Solace’ I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Medium Armor Maintenance Bot I x5

[/spoiler]

[spoiler show=”Show the Damnation fit”]

[Damnation, gstorm]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Target Painter II

Armored Warfare Link – Damage Control II
Armored Warfare Link – Passive Defense II
Armored Warfare Link – Rapid Repair II
Medium Graviton Smartbomb II
Medium Graviton Smartbomb II
Medium Graviton Smartbomb II
Small Graviton Smartbomb II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Hornet II x5

[/spoiler]

[spoiler show=”Show the Loki Booster fit”]

[Loki, gstorm booster]
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Surrogate LADAR Reserve Array I

Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

Skirmish Warfare Link – Evasive Maneuvers II
Skirmish Warfare Link – Interdiction Maneuvers II
Skirmish Warfare Link – Rapid Deployment II
125mm Light Carbine Repeating Cannon I, EMP S
[empty high slot]
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I

Loki Propulsion – Interdiction Nullifier
Loki Engineering – Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Loki Offensive – Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Electronics – Dissolution Sequencer
Loki Defensive – Warfare Processor

[/spoiler]

[spoiler show=”Show the Zealot fit”]

[Zealot, gstorm]
[Zealot, gstorm copy 1]
Heat Sink II
N-Type EM Hardener I
N-Type Thermic Hardener I
N-Type Kinetic Hardener I
Capacitor Power Relay II
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

10MN Afterburner II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I

[/spoiler]

[spoiler show=”Show the Loki tackler fit”]

[Loki, gstorm tackler]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
10MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Warp Disruptor II

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Loki Defensive – Adaptive Augmenter
Loki Electronics – Immobility Drivers
Loki Engineering – Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Loki Offensive – Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion – Chassis Optimization

Hornet EC-300 x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

[/spoiler]

[spoiler show=”Show the Stabber Fleet Issue fit”]

[Stabber Fleet Issue, gstorm]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Dark Blood Armor Kinetic Hardener
Dark Blood Armor Explosive Hardener
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II
10MN Afterburner II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Vespa II x4

[/spoiler]

Tactics:

Warp as close as possible to the hostile fleet. DPS ships should use their MWD to approach, then switch over to the 10mn afterburner. The primary targets are webbing ships and logistics ships. Call one or two primaries and all DPS ships attack.

Deimoses set orbit to 2,500m and use faction antimatter. When shooting scimitars, they should use the “keep at range” command and set it to 1500m. Orbit with the AB only if you are getting primaried. The Deimoses can nearly permarun their small neuts.

Zealots and Stabbers set their orbits at 5,000m and use faction short range ammo.

Oneiroses perma-run their afterburners and orbit the Damnation. The Damnation paints the primary, smartbombs ECM drones off the Oneiroses, and stays near the primary (and the Deimos-blob) at all times. This keeps the Oneiroses within rep range while the Deimoses run from primary to primary.

The Loki is in a safe spot providing fleet bonuses.

Nerdy Stuff

The numbers (close but not exact anymore due to minor fitting tweaks):

Appropriate gang links and mindlinks are used: Vulture and Loki boosting the Tengus and Scimitars, and Damnation and Loki boosting the Dongcat fleet.
The Oneiros uses a perfect logi pilot, but armor compensation skills are at IV
The Deimos, Zealot, and Stabber pilots have compensation skills to IV, gunnery support skills to V, and gunnery specialization skills to IV
The Tengu, Proteus, and Loki use all-V characters
The Tengu fit is the current White Noise standard fit
The Scimitar uses a perfect logi pilot, but shield compensation skills are at IV. The fit is the standard Razor Scimitar fit.
No logi drones are used when calculated numbers (yeah, a big assumption, I know, but that affects both sides equally).

Damage onto the tengu/scimitar fleet is calculated by including drone damage, assuming very low speeds (we have lots of webs), and with hardeners off (the neuts work quickly).

For the “sustained” calculations, I am assuming that 10 logi ships will be repping the target. This number is scalable, so if in reality, 20 logi ships are repping, the number of ships required to kill the target doubles.

There are two situations for which damage onto the Dongcat fleet is calculated:

“best” = Afterburner on, 75% speed (simulating a close orbit)
“worst” = MWD on, zero speed, painted (simulating being webbed and painted to hell)

Tengu with Caldari Navy Scourge attacking Deimos, 10 Oneiroses repping the Deimos

Sustained damage:
Best: tanks 137 Tengus
Worst: tanks 56 Tengus

Alpha damage:
Best: alphaed by 144 Tengus
Worst: alphaed by 59 Tengus

Tengu with Caldari Navy Scourge attacking Oneiros, 10 Oneiroses repping the Oneiros

Sustained damage:
Best: tanks 385 Tengus
Worst: tanks 82 Tengus

Alpha damage:
Best: alphaed by 235 Tengus
Worst: alphaed by 100 Tengus

If the hostiles switch to thermal ammo (the lowest resists for both the Deimos and the Onieros, the number of Tengus required to break tanks/alpha are decreased by 25%. To calculate for various situations, multiply the number of Tegus (from above) by 0.65.

Deimos with faction antimatter attacking Tengu, hardeners off (neuted), 10 Scimitars repping the Tengu

Sustained damage:
tanks 56 Deimoses

Assuming it is running all mods (cap stable at 60% cap) it can be instantly dry-capped by 23 Deimoses. With 12 Deimoses, it would be dry-capped in 6 seconds.

Deimos with faction antimatter attacking Scimitar, hardeners off (neuted), 10 Scimitars repping the Scimitar

Sustained damage:
tanks 24 Deimoses

Assuming the scimitar is only running critical mods (stable at 89% cap) it can be instantly dry-capped by 34 Deimoses. With 17 Deimoses it would be dry-capped in 6 seconds.

note: it is very important to reduce transversal when shooting at a scimitar, so I would use the “keep at range” command instead of orbit

Deimos with faction antimatter attacking Huginn (White Noise tanky setup), hardeners off (neuted), 10 Scimitars repping the Huginn

Sustained damage:
tanks 23 Deimoses

Assuming the huginn is only running critical mods (stable at 86% cap) it can be instantly dry-capped by 18 Deimoses. With 9 Deimoses it would be dry-capped in 6 seconds.

Discussion of Numbers:

I can keep calculating for other ships, but this is tedious. Some generalities about the alternate ships:

Zealot: a tank similar to the Deimos, but lacks a neut and has very low DPS. Also, the lack of drones make it less flexible.

Stabber Fleet Issue: relies on sig tanking more than traditional tanking, so it is very important it doesn’t get webbed. Cap is a major issue, but it is cap stable with the AB and all other mods on. DPS is low, but it has four medium drones so it maintains a bit of flexibility.

The capabilities of this fleet are intriguing. I’ll be very conservative in my estimates, and assume the level of sloppiness is similar on both sides of the battle.

Do we have enough logi? Never! But seriously, if we can remove their webbing ships, we need 1 Oneiros for every 8 hostile Tengus. If we can’t easily remove their webbing ships, we need 1 Oneiros for every 6 hostile Tengus.

Do we have enough DPS? To quickly remove their logi and webbers, we need 4 Deimoses for every 1 hostile Scimitar.

This means if the hostiles have a fleet of 100 Tengus and 20 Scimitars, we should be able to safely dominate them with 80 Deimoses and 20 Oneiroses. This is a very conservative estimate. Good FCing and good piloting could reduce the numbers we need substantially.

What about Drakes? Drakes have lower DPS and EHP than Tengus, but can sport webs. In a Drake/Tengu mix, we still need to remove logi and dedicated webbers first. Then, if we can’t rep the ships that are being webbed by Drakes, the FC needs to primary Drakes before attacking the Tengus.

What about ECM drones? I’d rather kill stuff than jam it. Since we should be able to tank DPS and we are killing logi, I see no need for ECM drones. Field testing may shed light on this, though, so it’s always a possibility that we’ll used them. Especially against non-tengu DPS boats.

Alright, there it is. Comments/questions/criticisms?

– Leak

[spoiler show=”Did we mess up?”]
We want to give you guys the best possible intel, to post as fast as we can confirm it, but Eve being :Eve: is quite confusing. If we messed up with our intel, please contact us directly [email protected], provide the proof of it and we’ll correct it immediately noting the change and bringing the correction on top of the article list.[/spoiler]

If you would like to send intel or contribute, feel free to use the form below:

[spoiler show=”Submit Intel Here”]

[/spoiler]

70 Comments

  1. Sorry, but this doctrine has already been coined by Agony Unleashed and named TweedCats, see:
    http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?5348
    http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?5348

    January 26, 2012 at 9:59 pm Reply
    1. justaguy

      Got to say dongcats is a far better name. Tweedcats, did one of the Agony members grannies name it?

      January 26, 2012 at 10:02 pm Reply
      1. From one of the posts I linked (and in response to an earlier statement about Agony's image because of the PVP University):
        "We ARE all about tweed and pipes, we even named our latest fleet concept TweedCats. (Originally named ARSECats, but then i was banned from naming fleet concepts, and we agreed TweedCats was more fitting and in line with general Agony policy)

        Edit: we also spend a surprisingly large amount of time discussing beekeeping."

        As a former Agony member, I enjoy the irony in all of this, but an outsider might not get it.

        January 26, 2012 at 10:06 pm Reply
        1. Tweed Me

          No, No one gets it.

          January 26, 2012 at 10:35 pm Reply
    2. Anonymous

      Will we STOP calling doctrines, "cats" any time soon?

      January 26, 2012 at 10:29 pm Reply
    3. RK_DUDER

      Sorry, Rote Kapelle was flying this fleet type starting more than a year ago, we call it the much better name of the "Fleet of sex."

      It has every weakness advertised above, and then some, but still fun to fly.

      January 26, 2012 at 11:37 pm Reply
      1. Completely possible, I was sure I'd seen it flown before in Syndicate, just didn't know who did it, so of course I'd completely ignore that and give full credit to my ex-corpies. Anyway, good fleet setup, made a lot better by recent changes to blasters, Null, Gallente hull speed and Oneiros though. :)

        And yes, I don't think any setup is without its flaws once you know how to counter it, but reversely, I don't think you would take this (or any setup really) up against fleets it wasn't designed to fight unless you felt like crying "For Frodo!" on comms and welp into whatever you happen to come across. There are no "one size fits all" fleets anymore, just fleets that you can engage, fleets you should avoid and fleets you don't know how to counter just yet.

        January 27, 2012 at 1:53 am Reply
        1. Forgot One

          Adn then there's PL fleets.

          January 27, 2012 at 4:14 am Reply
        2. glepp

          D3, I the Irony is mostly for internal use.

          Actually, we first encountered this setup used by Ninja Unicorns With Huge Horns in Pure Blind back in the spring of 2011 when they totally killed our Muninn fleet with it (ofc, they had mostly guardians, Zealots and Lokis, but it was MWD/DP HACs.). We've also seen Rote and Sedition/I-RED run with something similar. With the Gallente buff the Deimos and Oneiros suddenly became viable again, so we based ours on that. Also, confirming this setup is virtually impermeable to Drakes/Tengus (unless they switch damage type, ofc).

          And what do you all have against tweed anyway? It's the fabric of choice for the dynamic modern man!

          January 27, 2012 at 11:41 am Reply
      2. Rote Kapelle started doing it after we beat them in a few engagements testing this concept in Syndicat. Jan. 2011. /news?

        January 27, 2012 at 3:36 am Reply
        1. RK_DUDER

          Other than we used it in 2010…
          http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard/?a=kill_rela

          Initially as a counter to massive drake blobs, but nice try Noir.

          January 27, 2012 at 4:24 pm Reply
          1. cassius longinus

            Ya, we started running this concept aggressively early 2010, entirely as a counter to drakeblob, but because of AmarrVictor, we'd always end up with half Zealots, etc, as well as a ton of chaff from the Caldari/Matari players. Our setup was MWD only, not dualprop, and was designed for close skirmish against smallish opponents (our fleets rarely top 20, and we couldn't punch up past about 50, at which point our reps would never hold (we never comped more than 10% guardians)).

            Whats hilarious about Razor doing this now is that we pulled this ENTIRELY out of our playbook post Crucible as it no longer adds any advantage over a more traditional zealotfleet. T3alpha >> ahac.

            January 27, 2012 at 5:51 pm
      3. A goon

        How does that qualify as a better name? They are both equally shit names.

        January 28, 2012 at 12:25 am Reply
  2. Jin

    Awesome fleet until you get kited after 10 seconds and it's either a stalemate or you slowly die since your DPS range is 10km, you can't perma-run your MWDs, and your fleet is slow as shit.

    January 26, 2012 at 10:33 pm Reply
    1. guest

      Hmm, according to my EFT that deimos fit can perma-run MWD+hardeners if you have perfect support skills. It goes at 1450ms/s tho.

      January 27, 2012 at 12:48 am Reply
      1. Roland_Hova

        Well to be honest its an interesting set up and really shows how much the game was gimped by the Oneirose being so shitty. This wouldn't have been possible before crucible because of how slow and cap dependent guardians are.

        This is far from being battle worthy. Big targets will be the suggested T3 fit for a tackle loki's. Its tank is shit and would be better served by fiting fed navy webs and teamed with a brick tanked proteus with republic fleet points. No point fitting them so cheap since they will be damage sinks for the fleets.

        Their are a bunch of other minor things that bug me about the set ups, but all in all I wouldn't say this wouldn't work, it just requires a lot of retooling.

        January 27, 2012 at 2:30 am Reply
  3. ex-NC

    i hate "cats"
    also, massive props to riverini spy network 😉

    January 26, 2012 at 10:36 pm Reply
  4. Tweed You

    EvE News, when you are going to post a load of rubbish no one cares about, please could you do it in less then 100 words, so someone might actually read it.

    January 26, 2012 at 10:38 pm Reply
  5. Endie

    Evenews24 really has gone down teh shitter lately, Even more so considering it started of there.

    January 26, 2012 at 10:39 pm Reply
    1. Kenny G

      Na. It's better.

      But frankly, they had me at "DongCat"

      January 26, 2012 at 11:21 pm Reply
  6. Some Douche

    Way to borrow the logo.

    January 26, 2012 at 10:41 pm Reply
  7. bob

    why the heck are you reading this bs if you are so eager to call it rubbish?

    January 26, 2012 at 10:43 pm Reply
  8. Bear1990

    Who the hell made that Damnation and Zealot fit? Cap rechargers, N-type hardeners. GTFO, I'm being trolled here

    January 26, 2012 at 10:49 pm Reply
  9. Not A PL Alt

    I read the "TL/DR" and immediately knew it was a troll.

    January 26, 2012 at 10:50 pm Reply
  10. anom

    Ugh. Someone Rick-rolled me to an E24 post. Goddammit

    January 26, 2012 at 11:13 pm Reply
  11. Tiniff

    wow dual prop hacs.. how innovative

    January 26, 2012 at 11:18 pm Reply
    1. Urziel99

      Noir. has been running dual prop Armor hacs for some time now. Guess RAZOR's HC found time to theorycraft

      January 27, 2012 at 4:08 am Reply
      1. lawl

        sure they did

        January 27, 2012 at 2:47 pm Reply
      2. herpa derpanstein

        Guess Noir has so much free time all they can do is theorycraft.

        January 27, 2012 at 3:48 pm Reply
  12. Paul

    RZR contains only but winning team joiners or corps that have no place else to go. ex-MM corps. Or ex-MM corps that first went to WN and then quickly went to RZR went the noticed they were going to be kicked out again once more. What is up with that. Didnt they blame GSF in the first place for them failing in the north. Failed in the north, failed in the south and everywhere in between. That alliance even contains a ex-MH (leadership) corp that basically took off with a lot of isk when MH collapsed. Think this sums RZR up pretty accurate. So yeah call them shock-troops because they are disposable.

    January 27, 2012 at 12:57 am Reply
    1. stfumk2

      yeah I hate the "me too" attitude if they had all stayed where they were who knows what may have happened, the general eve player now has no character, leave CFC and find a challange

      January 27, 2012 at 1:28 am Reply
    2. I can only assume from the amount of tears in your post you are either

      a. in a corp we denied
      b. in a corp we kicked
      c. in a alliance we killed
      d. just another eve player with no real clue.

      In any case just to clarify a few of your points.

      "RZR contains only but winning team joiners or corps that have no place else to go"
      We have 3 MM corps and yes one of them could be considered wining team joiners. As for the rest of our corps they hardly had no where to go. Most had several options before finally deciding to join Razor.

      "Didnt they blame GSF in the first place for them failing in the north"
      This never happened, your thinking of MM leadership. Razor never once blamed Goon for the failing of the NC. and lets be honest the NC was not worth saving anyways

      "Failed in the north, failed in the south and everywhere in between"
      I guess your forgetting the part were we helped kill Bob 3 times, or Fix twice or the other numerous shit alliance that have tried to kill us in the past. Sure we eventually lost our space to the DRF's, are we bitter? Not really…they used the same tactics the NC used….blobing and contracts. We are the last surviving member of the NC for a reason, and it has nothing to do with our current ties to the CFC. We are working with the CFC because we have been long time allies with the goons and we have the same goals in mind.

      "That alliance even contains a ex-MH (leadership) corp that basically took off with a lot of isk when MH collapsed"
      You make it sound like anyone in eve gives a shit about this, alliances die all the time…its not like all their assets are magically split up evenly.

      "So yeah call them shock-troops because they are disposable. "
      Its infinitely more likely the corp or alliance your in will die before Razor dies, but keep trying to kill us… that is what makes the game fun for us.

      -Razor Leadership

      January 27, 2012 at 2:12 am Reply
      1. NCdotdotdot Grunt

        i think U sir are butt hurt , but o well just me ,
        and i know that ATLAS use the setup first, u copycats
        so now i have one question! if vuk lau supposedly made MM isk disappear , who supposedly made razor isk disappear?

        January 27, 2012 at 11:18 am Reply
        1. sluurp

          yeah.. and what about BOBhax ??????

          January 27, 2012 at 12:29 pm Reply
        2. lawl

          trying to spread some old, false propaganda aren't we now?

          January 27, 2012 at 2:51 pm Reply
        3. Muslim Bacon

          y u vagina vexed?

          January 27, 2012 at 3:53 pm Reply
      2. I believe this is the very definition of "concern troll".

        January 28, 2012 at 4:17 pm Reply
        1. Thodoros

          Fuck test.

          January 29, 2012 at 4:01 am Reply
    3. plexforceone

      razor has been kicking ass and taking names in 0.0 since you were learning how to solo L4s in your drake

      January 29, 2012 at 4:37 am Reply
  13. Nightshade Mary

    Quote: Loki (FC position, unprobable, all skirmish links)

    Unprobable? Improbable

    January 27, 2012 at 8:47 am Reply
    1. Tannhäuser Gate

      It's not, tons of fleetconcepts use AFK bonus ships like that successfully.

      But "FC Position"? I guess he means Fleetbooster? Because it would be very difficult to quickly warp around the battlefield with the FC Position not on grid.
      Or am I mixing that up with Fleetboss?

      January 27, 2012 at 11:20 am Reply
  14. somebody someone

    dont worry, this was the first draft name. We have a better one now =)

    January 27, 2012 at 8:59 am Reply
  15. sour

    actually i think rzr is better now than when it was with nc. still a shit alliance no doubt about that but better than before.

    January 27, 2012 at 10:03 am Reply
    1. lawl

      i think you're bitter

      January 27, 2012 at 2:48 pm Reply
      1. DrGurke

        actually he seems sour, not bitter, looking at his name.

        January 27, 2012 at 4:51 pm Reply
      2. sour

        err my comment was actually relativley positive..therefore….no i dont think im bitter.
        sour i definitely am 😛

        January 28, 2012 at 12:23 am Reply
  16. M_D_

    Now RZR just needs to find a good FC again to fly it 😛

    January 27, 2012 at 12:13 pm Reply
  17. GaiaHand

    Noir mercs flied and fly this for long time

    January 27, 2012 at 12:55 pm Reply
  18. Gunny

    Dongcats? what are we 15 or something? Shocktroops? Only real shocktroops in Eve are PL no matter what they fly. Razor are nowhere near that lvl, they are just fodder/meatshield for Goons which Raiden & Co. can quickly dispatch.

    January 27, 2012 at 1:30 pm Reply
    1. lawl

      ok

      January 27, 2012 at 2:45 pm Reply
  19. Wait-What

    I think it is funny …. " So and so did this a year ago …" or "So and So did it first" /// There are only so many ship types and so many fittings . it is inevitable that at some point all combinations have been used, tryed… what ever … As far as RZR much respect … you always put up good fights .. haters are going to hate …. the funny thing is that all the smack talking and not a single person uses there real ingame name … why … because you all are cowards …..

    January 27, 2012 at 1:50 pm Reply
    1. Sudden Eye

      I recognize several in-game names above.

      January 27, 2012 at 7:50 pm Reply
  20. -A- FC

    lol the worst A-HAC with <10km range vs a faster 80km+ range T3 A-B kiting fleet which is FOTM…

    January 27, 2012 at 1:57 pm Reply
  21. 0/10

    this is a troll story right? cuz you know, huginn, lach, etc….

    January 27, 2012 at 2:44 pm Reply
  22. Gooner

    OMFG A HALFWAY DECENT ARTICLE! GOOD THING THEY DIDNT LET RIVERINI BUTCHER IT

    but seriously good article. I love this type of theorycrafting! Sadly some of it never see the light of day (theorycrafting discussion) due to the nature of the beast (keeping information secret blah blah). Sucks for RZR that this info was leaked but it was good to see this type of thinking

    January 27, 2012 at 5:11 pm Reply
  23. beetle

    Noir. does this though they have a much more fleshed out version.To bad they can't seem to keep people in their alliance long enough for it to matter.

    January 27, 2012 at 5:28 pm Reply
  24. FAIL DERP

    How old is this?
    It mentions an unscannable T3 which was nerfed the middle of last year.

    January 27, 2012 at 7:06 pm Reply
  25. Succhiami il cazzo

    See a post when the old NC blame someone else for blobbing is really really fun.
    and yes, you are basically a pet to goons now, deal with it dude.

    January 27, 2012 at 7:36 pm Reply
  26. Marcus_McTavish

    so the counter to this fleet, is any minmatar ship?
    Armor Demios and blaster ships look good on paper, but you will need webs and scrams.
    A Thundercat Tengu goes at like 700m/s or more with links.
    You need to hold him down, and in addition while you tackle one, the others will move.
    As for the numbers i doubt all your logis will lock up and apply all reps to one target, not standard tactic.

    But gratz to RZR for thinking outside the sandbox

    January 27, 2012 at 8:18 pm Reply
  27. Former NC

    I thought "_____cat" fleets were ones used by PL, did I miss something or is Riv at the controls again?

    January 27, 2012 at 9:48 pm Reply
  28. hirrrrr

    you misspelled Rote Kapelle

    January 28, 2012 at 12:21 am Reply
  29. trip

    so the fcs gna sit off the grid in a loki and call primaries from there. sounds fail.

    January 28, 2012 at 2:12 pm Reply
  30. Chaffee B

    All you people saying you've used this concept already, let's see some battlereports. Any plan is perfect untill it runs into the enemy. What you got?

    January 28, 2012 at 4:46 pm Reply
    1. Chaffee B

      Edit, I see I missed the Agony and Rote postings. Anyone else?

      January 28, 2012 at 4:48 pm Reply
  31. razorISshit

    so what is new about this shit? that you are able to fit dualprop

    congratz to this BRAIN EFFORT!!! MEGA SUPER NEWSWORTHY IMBA SHIT AT ALL

    January 29, 2012 at 3:36 am Reply
  32. Teut

    Rivi is always primary. Died yesterday too by RZR guns. If you post shit and know shit about RZR maybe you are just a nobody. Oh. I post shit too. Thanxgoodbye

    January 29, 2012 at 10:44 am Reply
  33. memememmeme

    lol what…

    Muppet Ninjas were using Deimos like 2 years ago, its even in one of their members videos.

    You all fail.

    January 30, 2012 at 6:18 pm Reply
  34. Sharon Tate

    Two battle reports: Both against IRC:
    http://www.eve-razor.com/killboard/?a=kill_relate

    In this second fight, we were outnumbered 2-1. IRC eventually left the field after not being able to kill much.
    http://www.eve-razor.com/killboard/?a=kill_relate

    January 31, 2012 at 10:51 pm Reply
    1. TimmyTimmyTimmy

      Damn. Dramiel took 40k to kill? http://www.eve-razor.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail

      February 2, 2012 at 4:50 pm Reply
  35. adsf

    This is funny. I don't see razor claiming that this fleet is spectacular innovation, it's just implied by this riverini douche. That said, it's stupid to talk about using shit like this two years ago, when clearly a major reason for exploring the setup is the changes from the patch 1 month ago. Everything depends on the current state of the game, plus what your enemies are flying. I doubt the people flying these ships two years ago were thinking of a way to counter "tracking-titan spamming".

    February 1, 2012 at 2:47 am Reply

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