Comments

State of the Goonion

Goons and friends deploying to the north to kill White Noise and the reincarnation of their old nemesis, Raiden. Don’t mind the banner. It is late, we’ll sort it out later.

State of the Goonion Dec 2011 by eddicted

Too Long, didn’t listen

Basically it boils down to this:

- GoonSwarm Federation will be deploying north.
– Ice Ganking is Over until the war is over.
– WhiteNoise. having internal issues.
– Some other stuff.

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199 Comments

  1. SW GRUNT

    first

    December 19, 2011 at 4:15 am Reply
    1. Former NC

      <img src=http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/113/729/look-at-all-the-fucks-i-dont-give-theyre-just-falling-from-the-sky.jpg?1318992465>

      December 19, 2011 at 6:26 am Reply
      1. prasac

        you think WN will fight alone with Goons???
        Wn Raiden RA++
        And war will not stop in branch soon goons will have 0 systems north

        December 19, 2011 at 7:39 am Reply
        1. aaaaaaa

          wn gief missl!

          December 19, 2011 at 7:59 am Reply
        2. goonie

          yeah didnt NC try this and piss off the ruskis, that ended well, only unknown is mittani's gay lover in xdeathx, not sure how that will play out

          December 19, 2011 at 7:59 am Reply
        3. Winter Came

          RA against Goons?

          Yeah, keep dreaming, bro…

          December 19, 2011 at 8:02 am Reply
        4. Chef

          ok, m8m8m8o7o7. RA will totally run north to save WN, and let -A- fuck up their stuff down south in the meantime

          December 19, 2011 at 8:04 am Reply
          1. Conspirancy Man

            If this was a good conspirancy i suspect -a- and goons planning this together.. forming some kind of anti-drf mechanism…

            goons attack north
            RA goes north..
            RA gets steam rolled from south
            rest of (ex) drf get steamrolled from north and south..

            end of RTM..

            what a good conspirancy that would be :)

            December 19, 2011 at 9:36 am
          2. Rascal

            And so unlikely to happen.

            You seriously can't compare the russians to lemmings, like they don't have any sort of strategy of their own.

            December 19, 2011 at 9:45 am
          3. Goon

            Sure they have … loosing space, they are quite good at it, you'll see ;)

            December 19, 2011 at 11:50 am
          4. Rascal

            Just like the goons are good at having properly organized campaigns. Oh wait…

            December 19, 2011 at 12:50 pm
          5. AAA

            Im AAA and i can confirm we are going to fuck up RA shit

            December 19, 2011 at 1:45 pm
          6. AAA

            No conspiracy needed. we are still at war. war never ended. southern coalition never died. We lost much space but you cant kill us by taking space. We will retake our space. restore the thunderdome, enact our own revenge to "teach WN/RA" a lession. kinda like what their blue blob did to us..Lets see how long they can live without their space and tech and safety. Lets see how they enjoy the ramificatios of running around eve attacking anyone they want thinking there would be none.

            December 19, 2011 at 1:48 pm
          7. Carlos

            ROFL, RA will never go north. They are too lazy for that. Besides they rather have fun with triple shit.

            December 19, 2011 at 1:24 pm
          8. AAA

            you mean they would rather have fun dieing to triple shit

            December 19, 2011 at 2:00 pm
          9. Carlos

            actually they are dieing more to SE. Triple shit is irrelevenant

            December 19, 2011 at 2:29 pm
          10. WOT_owns_EVE

            Oh yeah, because AAA doesn't RMT at all!

            December 19, 2011 at 1:57 pm
        5. African

          lol RA got -A- and friends on their doorstep.

          December 19, 2011 at 12:51 pm Reply
          1. Hmmm

            just looking at the sov maps but isnt it the other way around ace? just judgeing by tenerifis alone there are what 7 or so former -a- Stations held by Ra and RA pet/allies? Add in another 3 in Omist former IO coven stations? I think your propoganda is week daniel son

            December 19, 2011 at 1:17 pm
          2. Shinjo-Slice

            Didn't RA and their pet/allies use to hold alot more of -A- space??? We never did like to eat our stripped candy too fast m8…

            December 19, 2011 at 2:43 pm
          3. AAA Grunt

            We do not want to over fish our easy to kill prey. Look at it how you want to.

            December 19, 2011 at 9:42 pm
  2. Random Space Hobo

    Uh could you have expanded maybe just a little?

    December 19, 2011 at 4:18 am Reply
    1. Imigo

      The recording pretty much speaks for itself.

      December 19, 2011 at 4:55 am Reply
      1. aTestie

        I see what you did there.

        December 19, 2011 at 11:28 am Reply
  3. Lorren Canada

    Update: some 1,500 goons and allies spread across seven full fleets hit branch like a fucking train and raped shit. Seven CSAAs with supers in build have been hit and are timed for US prime. SBUs onlined. WN still has all supercap and the majority of their supcap fleets in HED-GP. Whoops.

    December 19, 2011 at 4:22 am Reply
    1. anonymous

      Update: some 1,500 goons and "pets" spread across seven full fleets hit branch like a fucking train and raped shit. Seven CSAAs with supers in build have been hit and are timed for US prime. SBUs onlined. WN still has all supercap and the majority of their supcap fleets in HED-GP. Whoops.

      fixing that for you. I don't consider Razor, Fcon, and those others anything more then pets and they are in denial if they think they are anything but that.

      December 19, 2011 at 4:26 am Reply
      1. Qwerty4812

        so? lol call it what you want nobody cares

        December 19, 2011 at 4:33 am Reply
        1. C0unt Jeffrey

          As an Ex-member of the CFC I still hold them in very high respect, its people like you who spread the bullshit of all the CFC being trolls and that Goons control it all. Goons do not control it all, all people in the CFC from the normal pilot to the highest CEO are all held with high respect and all make an impact to what happens in the CFC.

          People like you are the ones who say that the CFC do bullshit and nothing respectable but think this is a game, this is about having fun and playing with people from all around the world. I will continue to believe being a member of the CFC was one of the best things I have done in Eve.

          December 19, 2011 at 8:11 am Reply
        2. Rascal

          Call it what you want, but I call it messing with the kid.

          December 19, 2011 at 10:57 am Reply
      2. anononononmys

        call it what you want… branch is going to burn.

        December 19, 2011 at 4:36 am Reply
      3. Lorren Canada

        Go look up how BoB and NC pets were treated and then look at DekCo alliances and realized there's a major difference.

        Also goons put over 100 supers and two whole capital fleets on the field today. WN doesn't have super superiority yet.

        December 19, 2011 at 4:37 am Reply
        1. Marco

          Doesn't matter, still pets. They can't hold space by themselves, they are just cannon fodder.

          December 19, 2011 at 7:05 am Reply
          1. aaaaa

            gief missl

            December 19, 2011 at 8:00 am
          2. serious guy

            whydontucryharderkid

            December 19, 2011 at 8:21 am
          3. Muhaah

            we shall see how WH manage to hold space … or Raiden for that matter … they are pets too you know ? ;)

            December 19, 2011 at 9:29 am
      4. Shadowski

        Wow, someone hates Goons.

        Been on both sides of that as a "pet" of a major null-sec alliance some time ago, and now as an ally of Goonswarn. The difference is staggering.

        CFC members are treated as allies in every sense of the word. Plenty of information, regular communication, and we're always treated with a high degree of respect. If you had even spent a week in one, you'd get it. And if you have, and still understand that, you fucking fail and didn't put any effort whatsoever into it.

        December 19, 2011 at 5:48 am Reply
        1. Rascal

          In my honest opinion, goons are alright. But the Mittani thinks they are an unstoppable force.

          I think goons could do with a change of leadership/split.

          December 19, 2011 at 9:40 am Reply
          1. Confused

            Wait, you say goons are doing "alright" but a debilitating leadership slit would be better at the eve of war? Someone needs to stop drinking the koolaid.

            December 19, 2011 at 11:12 am
          2. Rascal

            What I'm saying is it would be better for EVE and nullsec PvP for goons to fracture into smaller alliances.

            Same with the other powerblocks. Smaller alliances mean more wars and more incentive for people to enter nullsec with a smaller corp.

            December 19, 2011 at 12:45 pm
          3. lolz

            lolz i.e. DRF who are now the new NC along with pets NCdot and Raidendot. PL are just paid pets. They wont do anything unless their assets are covered by either ISK or a blob of people they can call on for "Gud Fights"

            December 19, 2011 at 8:28 pm
          4. Lorren Canada

            Obviously you know nothing about PL or good fights.

            December 19, 2011 at 10:31 pm
          5. aTestie

            Did you even listen to the recording? He knows this isn't going to be easy. WN are divided and unstable but still have a large supercapital fleet.

            And this isn't the first time Goons have gone against "impossible" odds.

            December 19, 2011 at 11:26 am
          6. Rascal

            A confident leader is good. But overconfidence is only gonna lead into trouble.

            He does say its not gonna be easy, but he also seems to neglect some of the major issues with the assault.

            December 19, 2011 at 12:48 pm
          7. aTestie

            Such as?

            December 19, 2011 at 1:45 pm
          8. Yarbear

            You clearly don't know much about leadership within an autocracy. The leader MUST at all times make his forces feel as if they are unstoppable, and must never say otherwise. Morale is what fuels Goons. So is delight in cruelty. The moment you make the Goons truly believe that they can be stopped is the day that doubts set in and corps start leaving the CFC.

            No general in the history of warfare has stood before his men and said "We could get pounded by the enemy. We're not invincible." It's suicide to even infer that.

            December 23, 2011 at 8:01 pm
        2. ROFL!

          Wow, someone hates Goons.
          ———-

          Yup, like everyone with an IQ above room temperature hates goons.

          December 19, 2011 at 3:01 pm Reply
      5. stfu

        seems all the little goons pubies read this site by the look of all the neg reps

        December 19, 2011 at 7:33 am Reply
        1. aaaaaa

          If they all negrep and feel that they are allies not pets, what are we to believe, some spergelord or the people actually in the corporations?

          December 19, 2011 at 7:52 am Reply
        2. goon

          my pubes do not read this site, friend

          December 20, 2011 at 6:00 pm Reply
    2. Guest

      All 1500 people in Goonswarm? Really, all of them? Wow. Props to Mittens for the turnout.

      December 19, 2011 at 7:36 am Reply
      1. Budge

        No, 1500 Goon+pet, goons are like old NC now.

        December 19, 2011 at 12:22 pm Reply
        1. Lorren Canada

          Not really. The NC just pulled in any warm bodies they could find, in the CFC we purge both our corporations and alliances pretty hard – we're doing our damnest to not become the NC, with 50,000 dudes in the coalition and 100 in fleet.

          December 19, 2011 at 7:21 pm Reply
    3. Red Alliance FC

      I hope you teach those stupid people a good lesson.

      December 19, 2011 at 6:10 pm Reply
  4. Paul

    This article needs a TL;DR: GSF are going to take over the Branch region. Several systems and key POS structures have been put in reinforcement. The alliance that lives in that region dont stand a chance. But its good though. Atleast some action somewhere. Even so I do think CCP needs to chance a thing or two. It would be nicer if a lot of smaller alliances would be able to hold sov without having to fear a big alliance taking them over of forcing them to pay rent. GSF appears to becoming the new Northern Coalition. Which actually results in controling day upon day a growing group of people they can control and force certain gameplay rules. With the option you either with us or we kick you out of our systems/alliance/corp. Which you then cant do anything about.

    December 19, 2011 at 4:40 am Reply
    1. Lorren Canada

      The GSF really doesn't go around strong-arming peeps into playing their way. In TEST we go off and fly with PL and NCdot and do stuff that pisses them off, but it doesn't matter.

      December 19, 2011 at 4:43 am Reply
      1. bullshit…if any pet isn't sucking the cock long and hard enough with sufficient spittle then they'll quickly find their leadership replaced (like FA) or reset and evicted due to some lame made up reason.

        December 19, 2011 at 5:34 am Reply
        1. Imigo

          Yeah, that's why FA leadership changed… no other reason whatsoever…

          December 19, 2011 at 7:26 am Reply
          1. lol yeah sure zagdul is in charge of FA because he is a great leader and FC and mittani did not install him there because he is good at suck and swallow

            December 19, 2011 at 10:45 am
          2. Imigo

            and it has absolutely nothing to do with the previous guy being mentally unstable.

            December 19, 2011 at 11:45 am
          3. Hmmm

            mentally unstable? Raven is a stand up dude form my expiernce, and he built the alliance, pretty big slap in the face to just say hey you sttod up to the goons GTFO. Pretty clear what happend m8, coup is coup, its okay jsut admit it, we dont need the story you use to help you sleep at night while rubbing your dick in fade tech

            December 19, 2011 at 1:13 pm
          4. Dudette

            Did someone mention Vlade?

            December 20, 2011 at 11:32 am
          5. CFC dude

            if it wasnt for zagdul FA wouldnt exist anymore today. Raven Shadows was a fucking carebear uncapable of leading an alliance.

            December 19, 2011 at 1:09 pm
          6. WOT_owns_EVE

            Plus with AWFULLY BAD SPELLING

            This isn't on par with goons. They spell their memes right!

            December 19, 2011 at 1:55 pm
    2. -a- guy

      Comparing goons to the NC is just… wrong

      December 19, 2011 at 4:47 am Reply
      1. desktop

        Goons is the new NC since they replaced the old NC. It's okay though. Goons probably still has the anti-midas touch. Everything turns to crap. They're kind of famous for that.

        December 19, 2011 at 6:09 am Reply
        1. rara

          I dunno, I think the people who stuck with goons are a lot happier right now than the hardline NCers.

          December 19, 2011 at 6:31 am Reply
        2. Imigo

          And right now Goons are touching White Noise. Good call.

          December 19, 2011 at 7:13 am Reply
          1. aaaaaa

            I touched donge while touching WN.

            December 19, 2011 at 7:58 am
      2. goonie

        yeah NC lasted alot longer, goons keep dying

        December 19, 2011 at 7:40 am Reply
    3. Imigo

      Or you could join (or operate like) alliances like Merciless. and live in an NPC region. There are plenty of options available to you beyond sov powerblocks.

      December 19, 2011 at 5:03 am Reply
    4. Rascal

      Oh, lets hope. THEN THEY GET TO IMPLODE!

      Yay for no more goons!

      December 19, 2011 at 9:43 am Reply
  5. Imigo

    Long tall Sally, she's built for speed. She got everything that Uncle John need.

    Gonna have me some fun tonight.

    December 19, 2011 at 5:04 am Reply
  6. Sold

    Nice fleet names. nig-fleet, spic fleet, et al. Reminds me of PL.

    December 19, 2011 at 5:04 am Reply
    1. Shadowski

      Can you think of a better way to get SA posters to join fleet?

      It's genius. ::thumbsup::

      December 19, 2011 at 5:49 am Reply
    2. Repsolll

      Many of PL are ex goons is why…

      January 2, 2012 at 12:30 pm Reply
  7. Lykouleon

    To celebrate the start of another glorious internet spaceship campaign, glorious comrade leader of the Goonion The Mittani secretly authorized Goonswarm sleeper agents to finally kill Kim Jong Il. He just didn't tell anyone until the Q&A section.

    December 19, 2011 at 5:05 am Reply
    1. anon222

      LOL

      December 19, 2011 at 9:36 am Reply
    2. ROFL!

      Someone should have done the human gene pool a favor and killed Mittani

      December 19, 2011 at 3:03 pm Reply
    3. Silentskills

      +1 internetz

      December 25, 2011 at 6:38 pm Reply
  8. Raiden guy

    Come goonies, let's play :)

    December 19, 2011 at 5:15 am Reply
  9. so far goons seem to be doing ok shooting undefended poses and catching a few ratters in gate camps

    I'm looking forward to goons taking it in the ass again and all the tears "ohhh tittan still OP!!" and "we can win if timee dilluted!!"

    December 19, 2011 at 5:37 am Reply
    1. lol @ niggerman

      This is no different than the way you/they took Branch if the memory serves me well, right? I mean … did you actually fought for Branch? Or did you shoot undefended structures like Goons do now? Oh chill my friend, no one will complain more than you when you loose your space and your precious supers.

      December 19, 2011 at 5:19 pm Reply
      1. Imigo

        Confirming that WN. shot undefended structures in Branch (I was there, evacuating anyway) after the war was over. Goons are now shooting undefended structures and the war has only just begun.

        Interesting parallel.

        December 20, 2011 at 3:58 am Reply
        1. John_Sheppard

          I know I was there too, evacuating like you :P

          December 20, 2011 at 11:20 am Reply
  10. howsit

    Win, lose or draw, Goonies I could hug you for lighting a match to this nap fest "Let's get readyyyyyy to Rummmmble!

    December 19, 2011 at 6:21 am Reply
    1. stfu

      are you fucking kidding, goons are only doing something now cause they think WN/Raiden are at their weakest, goons are the biggest blue'ing faggots of all

      December 19, 2011 at 7:39 am Reply
      1. serious guy

        would you call this… strategy?

        December 19, 2011 at 8:22 am Reply
        1. stfu

          your too dumb to see my point, gtfo

          December 19, 2011 at 8:35 am Reply
          1. serious guy

            umadbro?

            December 19, 2011 at 8:41 am
          2. stfu

            you got no imagination bro?

            December 19, 2011 at 8:54 am
          3. muhahahahah

            umadbro?

            December 19, 2011 at 10:11 am
          4. stfu

            lol

            December 19, 2011 at 5:57 pm
          5. Imigo

            The irony in that post… (you're)

            December 19, 2011 at 9:35 am
          6. anon222

            look who's talking

            December 19, 2011 at 9:38 am
          7. The Obvious

            I know you are but what am I

            December 19, 2011 at 9:59 am
      2. LOL

        It's not goons fault they can't properly defend themselves effectively without a super blob… Oh wait lol

        December 19, 2011 at 11:22 am Reply
      3. Akrasjel Lanate

        "goons are the biggest blue'ing faggots of all "

        Hell yea

        December 19, 2011 at 12:06 pm Reply
    2. No BLOB EXCUSES

      What makes me laugh is the fact you call WN a NAPFEST when the Goons are painted with the exact same brush!

      Personally I would like to see both sides disappear as just having to be associated with the likes of the Goons in any way is enough to drop your IQ 100 points at least, its the same with WN & Raiden

      December 19, 2011 at 11:05 pm Reply
  11. ice

    Well at least my Thanatos will be cheaper to fly.

    December 19, 2011 at 6:33 am Reply
  12. a pilot

    I would not help goons. Yeah you will get space and tech moons. But when under attack they just gonna say fu defend by yourself.

    you are warned

    December 19, 2011 at 8:04 am Reply
    1. aaaaa

      haha you are retarded

      December 19, 2011 at 8:09 am Reply
    2. Imigo

      Confirming that when PL/Ev0ke/etc invaded Pure Blind/Fade, Goons just said "fu defend by yourself". That's really what happened.

      December 19, 2011 at 9:36 am Reply
      1. nullsecnoob

        You can tell by the SOV map.

        December 20, 2011 at 9:58 pm Reply
  13. justaguy

    Surprised evenews hasn't picked up the fact an NC. FC lite a cyno for CFC to hot drop a merciless fleet in 6W-HRH last night. twas fun.

    December 19, 2011 at 8:38 am Reply
    1. NC who?

      Maybe because noone cares about the NC? :)

      December 19, 2011 at 3:45 pm Reply
      1. Yo MaMa

        NCdot hurpdurp

        December 19, 2011 at 4:10 pm Reply
    2. Bitter Newb

      Blobbers gonna blob.

      December 19, 2011 at 4:31 pm Reply
    3. bagehi

      Digging through a ton of mails and leads right now. Submit info if you haven't already.

      December 19, 2011 at 4:53 pm Reply
      1. anonymous

        Doesn't exist the only NC. connection was that it was their pos the merciless dreads were on.

        December 19, 2011 at 8:07 pm Reply
  14. Init Soldier

    Would love to see Goons alongside Init raping WN Faces

    December 19, 2011 at 9:20 am Reply
    1. Alpha Volley

      Pretty sure pixels can't cause emotional scarring for a lifetime

      December 19, 2011 at 10:02 am Reply
      1. aTestie

        You haven't seen test local spam.

        December 19, 2011 at 11:29 am Reply
        1. The Observer

          Yeah I have. It's been pretty weak lately. You guys should step it up. Last time, I saw nothing but phallic ASCII shapes

          December 20, 2011 at 4:46 am Reply
  15. rara

    It should probably also be noted that TEST are invading Vale of the Silent which, if nothing else, prevents Raiden from fully committing to a defense of WN's assets.

    December 19, 2011 at 9:46 am Reply
  16. Goon

    omw

    December 19, 2011 at 10:12 am Reply
  17. stranger

    WN and Raiden are organized and experienced PVPers. Goons have the numbers. It will be an interesting compaign to watch.

    December 19, 2011 at 10:36 am Reply
    1. Goon

      "WN and Raiden are organized and experienced PVPers […]"

      U kidding right ?

      December 19, 2011 at 11:47 am Reply
      1. lolz

        I think hes trolling bro. WN can't do anything unless the DRF is involved. Raiden is the same. You will see the DRF once again in action.

        December 19, 2011 at 8:32 pm Reply
    2. derp

      As much as I hate goons and think that raiden. are fags (lol) this is going to be very interesting to watch. Can goons successfully outblob their way to victory? How many trillions of maelstroms will be whelped? And how will both sides handle maybe the first massive super losses since the Uemon battle?

      December 19, 2011 at 1:12 pm Reply
  18. NC. just received orders to move back to Tribute. Negotiations underway with PL. VFK headshot incoming I think :D

    December 19, 2011 at 10:46 am Reply
    1. 0nois

      ya with 1500 cfc in maels actuly loging on again in vfk, that would be a great idiea!

      December 19, 2011 at 10:51 am Reply
    2. ANGRYNECKBEARD

      Yeah, because that worked out so well last time. I'm sure WN will do well with Spacewizard Lee Chanka heading their counter assault. His spels will win the day. I heard they're fitting to use magic missile from 100k's.

      December 19, 2011 at 11:08 am Reply
      1. nikto

        Lee is the king. it will be hard, it will hurt, but WN and team will strike rusty anchor to goons asses…

        December 19, 2011 at 2:49 pm Reply
      2. WNtrooper

        Don't go dissing Lee, he's gonna kick goon ass.
        And what's better, we got Conman and the power of his monocle. He can outtroll the goons, and that's saying a lot.

        December 20, 2011 at 11:24 am Reply
    3. Goon

      Yep, sure you need PL to hold your hand while WN/Raiden/NCdot is getting raped … badly …

      December 19, 2011 at 11:46 am Reply
    4. derp

      RA is going to burn :D

      December 19, 2011 at 1:14 pm Reply
    5. Toby

      You forgot to mention TEST is blue with PL and NC. So… fail is it? Dreams.

      December 20, 2011 at 10:19 am Reply
  19. Carlos

    It makes me sick everytime. The Mittani has a thing for loving himself how he sounds. He exagerates his voice so much. Must be gay as xmas

    December 19, 2011 at 1:37 pm Reply
    1. Lorren Canada

      That's funny, cause Mittens is not one to talk very much. Aside from the other SOTGs and this campaign and I think one fleet op, I've never heard him before. He's not much of a talker in my experience.

      December 19, 2011 at 4:36 pm Reply
  20. Leave Rydis Alone!

    Rydis is sky marshall. Nothing can go wrong.



    ok, maybe it can.

    December 19, 2011 at 3:03 pm Reply
    1. Goon "Pet"

      Rydis Best Skymarshal

      December 19, 2011 at 4:01 pm Reply
      1. Lorren Canada

        It's not her fault the NCdot High Command told her to shutup cause she's a girl. She also ran the Fountain invasion quite nicely.

        December 19, 2011 at 4:40 pm Reply
  21. yunobelieve

    So, goonswarm "will" do something?

    oh rly …

    I "will" believe that, if they are still fighting in a few weeks, beside some small scale pvp.

    But for now it is just trolling.

    December 19, 2011 at 3:26 pm Reply
  22. guest

    "War is not won through having honor. War is not won through having, y'know, "gud fites" and having fun with your enemy."

    Right on spot, mr. Mittani. I think the above applies well for both ingame and RL war, while the following sentences in the speech being the equivalent of "war is won by ruining the will to fight from your enemies", which also applies to both cases.

    It intrigues me whenever I see a gameplay balancing discussion where someone tries to backup his point of view by making a comparrison to RL warfare.

    RL warmachines are not designed to be fair or entertain the enemy with a good combat. They are designed to be as deadly efficient in as broad scenarios as possible (RL battleships for instance are not designed to be fairly week against frigates in the least!).

    So, think twice before bringing that kind of argument next time you see yourself in a balancing discussion.

    December 19, 2011 at 3:33 pm Reply
    1. lol @ raiden dude

      (RL battleships for instance are not designed to be fairly week against frigates in the least!).

      You sure bout that ? they sick pretty fast when a suicide frigate (read plane) slams into them – google it if you don't believe me … not to mention a terrorist with a bomb and a diving suit :)

      December 19, 2011 at 5:15 pm Reply
      1. guest

        "lol @ raiden dude". Me in Raiden., seriously? Well, perhaps you think I was implying that supercaps should be the killer of all things or something stupid like that. That's not what's written there.

        The subject may be a little hard for you to undestand, considering you already misunderstood frigates for kamikazes. It's a meta-discussion about balancing, not the discussion itself. Like english classes are meta-language about english. Are with us so far?

        It goes like this:
        – Each ship in Eve should have weaknesses for various reasons. By game design for instance, like Imigo said in the other response, lest it becomes the "optimum build" like it happens in so many PvP games. If that happens, people start caring about that optimum build and nothing else. The game becomes predictable and boring.
        – War apparatus in RL are intrinsically unfair. If a nation ever build a "super-ship" or "super-tank", they are not going to make a recall to tone it down. They would build more of those, and keep improving it.

        And here comes the difficult part, the conclusion from the above two is not that there should be super-ships in Eve, thats wrong. The conclusion is that when you reach that point in the discussion you should put reality aside and adjust the game regardless. That difference is what Eve players just ignore.

        The other thing most players ignore is what Mittani pointed out in the speech: There are a lot of similarities in human behavior between our wars and the real ones. You just need to put aside your prejudice that all eve battles should be fair.

        Granted, if you enjoy those battles, it is not too bad if your enemy also have fun, so that both of you keep logging in the following weekends and keep … acomplishing nothing (cept your fun, of course).

        Now, if what you want is to win a war, than aiming at the morale of the opposing rank-and-file is a winning strategy.

        Heck, you read all the way to this point and are still trying to figure out "what the fuck a meta-discussion is"? Hopeless, it seems.

        On a side note, it seems CCP was quite accurate naming this expansion. Not sure if they meant it more like "re-ignite your accounts" rather than "re-ignite 0.0 wars", but acurate enough anyway.

        December 20, 2011 at 1:49 pm Reply
    2. Imigo

      Difference is that this is a spaceships sandbox, not a hello kitty theme park ride. It's supposed to be dark and scary and you're supposed to be a little bit angry when you log on (as stated by one of the designers).

      December 19, 2011 at 6:21 pm Reply
  23. krall-strikes-again

    they have been kralled

    December 19, 2011 at 3:46 pm Reply
  24. Anonymous Gamer

    Funny thing about this war…. a bunch of Goons, like a couple thousand are currently on hiatus playing Star Wars The Old Republic. Don't believe me? Goon Squad is a guild on my server, Keller's Void.

    December 19, 2011 at 4:04 pm Reply
    1. Lorren Canada

      What else do you do during a POS shot?

      December 19, 2011 at 4:34 pm Reply
    2. Apex

      I don't think you understand the idea of the swarm. Not all the goons come from EVE, there's a MUCH larger community than you seem to perceive.

      December 19, 2011 at 10:51 pm Reply
  25. The Matani

    I take exception to this. You win the WAR by making people not even want to log in!! Once noone but goons are left .. then we will rule the universe. I also like sucking the cock of goats :o)

    December 19, 2011 at 4:27 pm Reply
  26. El Duderino

    13:11 That's what I call: terrorrism. If in a game people focus on destroy your desire to play, it's the lowest scum and cowardness there might be. If you can't win a war in eve on the batttelfield with honor, you're nothing else but a terrorist and a war criminal.
    But I didnt expect anything else from brainless stupid goons, whos only intelligence can be the swarm mind.

    December 19, 2011 at 4:43 pm Reply
    1. Imigo

      Quick, call the Hague, call Geneva, there are people attacking each other and being mean about it IN A VIDEO GAME!

      Are you serious? It's a SANDBOX game, with the catchphrase HTFU. If it weren't for some of the drivel that people post normally, I would call this a troll.

      December 19, 2011 at 6:34 pm Reply
    2. BAMbam

      Not really terrorism though is it? Blowing up internet spaceships. The point is to win by making them stop logging in. IF you give them GF's they will log in more.

      Its efficiency not terrorism.

      December 19, 2011 at 6:49 pm Reply
  27. Jarod

    So basicly.. goons are giving DRF one hell of a reason to put all their differences aside and come together once more. Effectively removing the heat from -A-, and possibly scoring PL a new billionaire contract.

    We must also take into account that Raiden is actually acting much much better than IT alliance was.

    It is my belief that the result of this is going to be very different than what Mittani is expecting. Although he should be confident for the amount of people he can gather, usually, goons' numbers decrease as war is waged. And however many supers they have… if by "accident", NCdot and PL end up with WN and Raiden again… lets just hope xxdeath and solar keep fighting, for the blob will be bigger than ever.

    Mittani, if you're reading this… cyno chain's to branch take just a couple of hours to setup and bring all supers from HED. Plus, if WN is divided… striking them will unite them, most probably. This is not like IT's leadership, who slept during ur invasion.

    My cents.

    December 19, 2011 at 4:46 pm Reply
    1. bagehi

      I can't help but have flashbacks to the RAGE invasion of the DRF. The big difference may be which side PL is supporting.

      December 19, 2011 at 4:56 pm Reply
      1. Jarod

        They're always that damn wildcard, aint it?! lol Plus, they have been teaming up with NCdot, who since they got the cashflow coming from tribute has been pipping their fleets, it seems.

        December 19, 2011 at 7:47 pm Reply
        1. The Observer

          That's because there's much bro love between NC. and PL

          December 20, 2011 at 4:50 am Reply
    2. What ?

      "We must also take into account that Raiden is actually acting much much better than IT alliance was."

      Can you please elaborate on how did you get to this conclusion please? Much better than BOB in what sense? BoB used to do campaigns all the time, Except the big blob-anti-blob coalition to kill a coalition what exactly they achieve lately ?

      "Mittani, if you're reading this… cyno chain's to branch take just a couple of hours to setup and bring all supers from HED. Plus, if WN is divided… striking them will unite them, most probably. This is not like IT's leadership, who slept during ur invasion."

      Only difference will be that supers blob won’t win you a war this time bud!

      December 19, 2011 at 5:09 pm Reply
      1. Jarod

        I wrote IT. Where have you read BoB ? :s
        But ill bite the biscuit, Raiden comparing to IT when goons invaded fountain actually fights. Actually brings something to the table. Thats way better than IT during goon's fountain invasion.

        Give me a good reason why a blob of tracking titans wont be as effective today like it was before crucible?

        December 19, 2011 at 7:37 pm Reply
        1. Imigo

          IT Alliance (including x13 and Finfleet) turned up in Fountain fairly regularly up until PNQY fell, followed by the 6VDT hellcamp which completely broke their will to fight. They had tracking titans then too, as well as doomsdays which could hit subcaps, and supercarriers which could launch drones.

          Tracking titans are still effective, but they still have to be taken into the field and defended to be any good.

          December 19, 2011 at 9:40 pm Reply
          1. Jarod

            But this time it isnt just Raiden, like it was in PNQY/6VDT is it?!

            Hopefully for goons, it is. But since when things go as planned? Thats my point!

            December 19, 2011 at 10:59 pm
          2. Imigo

            True, but IT had all their Fountain pets (yeah, I know) in PNQY, and INIT. joined in around that time too.

            Still, this isn't Raiden. space that's being attacked. AFAIK we're still waiting to see if Raiden. stick their noses in at all.

            December 19, 2011 at 11:51 pm
        2. John_Sheppard

          IT / BoB same shit …

          December 19, 2011 at 11:48 pm Reply
        3. John_Sheppard

          "Give me a good reason why a blob of tracking titans wont be as effective today like it was before crucible? "

          From the patch notes: Friendly remote 'EW' boosts will no longer work on ships immune to electronic warfare, specifically Tracking Links and Remote Sensor Boosters

          December 19, 2011 at 11:50 pm Reply
          1. Jarod

            So titans wont munch BSes down like theres no tomorrow after crucible, is that what you are saying?

            BoB \ IT, different periods, different reactions and different activity. Hows different things altogether be the same?

            You are a genius.

            December 20, 2011 at 12:42 am
          2. seph

            wouldn't saying that bob/it/raiden is different be like saying goonswarm federation is different then goonswarm or whatever past icarnations with vastly different organization tactics goal, allies, leadership, and whatever.

            Differences exist but the same old grudges exist, one super power against another, one side has more fancy ships then the other, (super caps being the new caps)

            December 20, 2011 at 5:34 am
          3. John_Sheppard

            Hmmm, I thought I made myself pretty clear. You asked me how are titans any different then before Crucible, I gave you a quote from patch note that should cover that. Before this you said that Raiden is much better than IT was – this is where I came in and gave you my 2 cents – personally (and I strongly believe that I am not the only one) I think they are much much worse than their predecessors (call it BoB / Kenzoku / IT – it’s the exact same shit – same morons narcissistic idiots), at least they had regular deployments like Max 1 2 3, fucking around with goons all day pretty much every day. Compared to that old BoB / IT / Kenzoku tell me, how is Raiden any better? They defeated the NC yea ? True, but they had to blue the entire fucking map to do so, not to mention blob the fuck out of them. After that they achieved what exactly? What is their most notable achievement? Killing NC I know … what else?

            December 20, 2011 at 9:40 am
          4. Jarod

            I didnt ask you how titans are different. I asked if with crucible, tracking titans arent effective when in a blob? – pretty different issue here.

            Relax, nothing personal here. We're just discussing a subject… damn! We're both throwing our cents in a bowl of very uncertain things.

            Regardless of how many or how few achievements, they are more active than IT was when goons conquered fountain. True or not? Thats all my post is about. Argueing about whatever else is argueing about whatever else. – different discussion.

            December 20, 2011 at 3:18 pm
    3. ViperRum

      IT leadership didn't sleep during the Goon/TEST invasion, they were too busy with in fighting and back stabbing to be arsed with the invasion.

      WN is going to take a beating early on in this fight because as one commenter noted there were 7 full fleets out hitting stuff. There is so much that is reinforced it will be very hard for WN to defend everything. Thus, the CFC will have its choice of targets, and if they can get similar numbers they could hit more than one target near simultaneously or drop in, in waves.

      That doesn't mean WN is out of the fight, but this isn't an invasion of the DRF homeland (the Drone Regions), so it is not immediately clear that the DRF will re-unite.

      December 19, 2011 at 5:50 pm Reply
      1. ViperRum

        Also, don't forget that RA can't exactly run up north because White Noise basically stopped paying attention. If they do, then -A- will see that as the break they need to rush back into their old systems and burn shit to the ground. So RA will be reluctant to re-deploy. White Noise just had Goons flip a huge number of systems in Branch and key systems have SBUs in them. CSAAs have been hit, tech moons have been hit, and Goons are fired up.

        A big part depends on whether or not the Solar/XDeath thing is real or not and how good the relationship is between Goons and XDeath is. If it is stronger than the relationship between WN and XDeath that is not good for WN.

        As for the status of PL…I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if both sides are talking to Shamis right now….

        December 19, 2011 at 6:05 pm Reply
        1. Imigo

          "If it is stronger than the relationship between WN and XDeath that is not good for WN."

          It doesn't even need to be stronger, just enough to counterbalance any motivation to join the fight

          December 19, 2011 at 6:29 pm Reply
        2. Jarod

          Nobody said anything about RA. =s
          Second person reading things in my comment i havent wrote lol

          RA isnt needed at all if xxdeath and solar solve their differences. WN, Raiden, NCdot, PL, xxdeath is more than enough. Leaves UPS, Bloodbound, Voodoo, Red.legion, RA, Solar and all other pets they have for the south.

          Eastern Bloc deffended. All it takes is that they unite to consolidate.

          December 19, 2011 at 7:41 pm Reply
          1. ViperRum

            RA is part of the DRF, you said that this would reform the DRF, I'm saying it isn't so clear cut. I'm suggesting some uncertainty to your certainty. And don't count pets as decision makers in the DRF.

            December 19, 2011 at 9:07 pm
          2. Jarod

            They dont make decisions in the DRF, but those i mentioned are the ones active in the south. And they have made a big difference.

            I said that this would reform DRF, and RA is in fact part of DRF! I just didnt say the whole of DRF would be fighting goons, did I ?
            Plus, the only rifts in DRF is White noise leaving (read, resseting some) and xxdeath vs solar altercation. All the rest is still there.

            December 19, 2011 at 11:03 pm
          3. ViperRum

            Back tracking noted.

            December 20, 2011 at 1:05 am
      2. ViperRum

        And regarding IT and their leadership…invasions don't always unite a fractious leadership. In the IT case the invasion made the fractures within the leadership even greater. Some in the leadership saw it as an opportunity to "get back" at other members in the leadership.

        So while an invasion might induce the White Noise leadership to put aside their differences, it could also exacerbate them thus ensuring the death of the alliance.

        December 19, 2011 at 6:11 pm Reply
        1. Jarod

          Put simply, WN is active at the moment. IT wasnt.
          Three days ago i saw a fight in HED where WN stood on the field against 3 enemies. -A-, NC. and PL. (not all at the same time.) IT was asleep for a long time when goons knocked the door. they had no real reaction. The enemies they are fighting now are much stronger compared to IT. Goons are too, and i dont take their credit of being a massive force. They might surprise me, but i doubt it.

          Theres a rumour in the south that PL got something to jumpstart -A-'s return. With the war in the north, they wont be needed longer. (im sorry, i cannot elaborate on this. cant jeopardize my position where i am as you might understand. =)

          December 19, 2011 at 7:46 pm Reply
          1. ViperRum

            You are wrong, some parts of IT were active others were not in the war with Goons/TEST. That is why IT fell it was not united in defense of their space. The bickering, in-fighting and selfishness along with an external pressure are what did in IT. The Mittani is betting the same situation holds with White Noise. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, so we'll have to wait.

            IT was not asleep they were over in Catch helping the Initiative. When the threat to Fountain became clear (i.e. Fountain residents not deployed to Catch) couldn't stop things IT left Catch. Due to internal differences some parts of IT went to Fountain, others returned to Delve and farmed and built as many supers as they could (X13 and Finfleet to be exact). Then matters finally came to head when X13 and Finfleet delivered their ultimatum and were told to leave the alliance. At that point it was too late. DICE was already planning on bailing and Fountain was being taken by Goons/TEST. Another corp decided to leave which basically handed Fountain over to Goons/TEST. If IT had put up a united front that war might have ended very differently.

            It is an example where an invasion exacerbated the problems in the leadership…not reducing them or putting them on the back burner.

            December 19, 2011 at 9:16 pm
          2. Jarod

            "some parts of IT were active" – Thats the same as saying IT wasnt active, only a bit.

            That invasion exacerbated the problems of a weakened leadership in a weakened alliance (by the problems of its leadership). It begs the question, does white noise look like a weakened alliance? I don't think so!

            December 19, 2011 at 11:11 pm
          3. ViperRum

            Some parts |= not active. Those parts that were active were quite active, they did stuff every day. Ninja'd RFing towers with supers, did nightly roams, disrupted the piplines south, etc.

            Problem was it was about half of the alliance and that wasn't enough.

            The point remains, sometimes an invasion can bring a fractious group together, other times it can make things even worse.

            We wont know till the end really.

            "It begs the question, does white noise look like a weakened alliance? I don't think so!"

            That isn't what you said initially, you said this could bring together an alliance that is having internal problems. You wrote:

            "Plus, if WN is divided… striking them will unite them, most probably. "

            Really, the semantic dodging and Bravo Sierra is rather juvenile.

            December 20, 2011 at 1:09 am
          4. Jarod

            Saying Bravo Sierra is rather juvenile is a mute arguement, really.
            It isnt semantic dodging. Its me saying something and you reading a whole different thing.

            There again, I spoke about their union, and then i spoke about their weakness/activity. They related but how one is the same for you to say i changed my statements? How have i been incoherent?

            I'll finish with something i had decided not to mention, to keep the discussion level: Who tha fuck are you to say im wrong? An expert? Get off the pedestal mate. We're just throwing opinions here, and im still allowed to have mine.

            Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo 'in Hotel Echo Lima Lima.
            Over & Out.

            December 20, 2011 at 3:30 pm
          5. ViperRum

            I didn't just say Bravo Sierra, I said you engaging in semantics and dodging around like a ping pong ball in high winds.

            I'll finish with something i had decided not to mention, to keep the discussion level: Who tha fuck are you to say im wrong? An expert? Get off the pedestal mate. We're just throwing opinions here, and im still allowed to have mine.

            Oh somebody who was in IT from the beginning to the end. Somebody who fought TEST and knows what happened. Somebody who doesn't think their every pronouncement is something everybody else should accept as some sort of prophecy from the Oracle at Delphi. In other words, your "opinions" were stated with far more certainty and we don't even know what the fuck your sources are.

            You are asserting things that MAYBE true as FACT. And in looking at the war from the front I can say the right now White Noise. are in trouble. They have lost hundreds of billions in assets, almost 20 systems have been taken over by Goons and Co. and right now the momentum is totally on the Goon's side. If something does not happen soon for WN to take back the initiative they are probably going to end up being pushed out of their space. And as that is often the death knell for most alliances it may also be the outcome for WN.

            December 22, 2011 at 10:31 pm
          6. ViperRum

            And I said you were wrong in your characterization of IT alliance. Were you in IT? Did you have access as a spy? Or are you just spouting off your opinions? Oh yeah, the latter.

            Like I said, I was in IT. I was in IT when it was formed and left very near the end. When we were getting ready to move on our leadership provided quite a bit of the information known only to IT leadership up to that point so we'd know the score. Also, the Mittani posted quite a bit too. It wasn't an inactive leadership/alliance, but one that was divided internally which resulted in a half-assed defense of Fountain. TEST, Goons and Co. took advantage of that and won.

            Finfleet and X-13 basically tried to force their desires on the rest of the alliance. It didn't go over too well (they asked for too much). So they got the boot, but they also had a huge portion of IT's supers. Also, there were issues with regards to the Initiative and the Catch campaign. Not every corp thought we should go and they held back from that deployment. When TEST et. al. invaded Finfleet and X-13 decided to pull the same stunt to "even the score". DICE saw the handwriting and started taking steps to leave as well. As such things in Fountain just weren't going to go IT's way.

            That being said there were fleets that were active in Fountain. There were fights over most timers, there were nightly roams to harass the enemy. Bomber camps along the pipe form B-D to PNQ to disrupt people trying to move into Fountain. Ninja repping and reinforcing efforts, SBUs being dropped where necessary, etc. I know I was involved in quite a bit of that.

            Will WN end up with a similar situation? I wouldn't be surprised if that is how it worked out.

            December 22, 2011 at 10:45 pm
          7. Jarod

            My comments are just opinions. Regardless if i talk "prophet". =)

            Yes, i had access. Thank you for your enlightment, i still dont call all that was done, a response. At least not a real one. Not one that can change anything in a war!

            Im so sorry i dont have the same standards as you do. How shameful of me, right?! wrong.

            December 23, 2011 at 12:09 am
          8. ViperRum

            Yeah White Noise is doing so well right now. I think WN at the least will lose Branch. They have rallied around their leader and are striking out…oh wait.

            Dude, have some fucking balls…admit you were wrong about WN and about IT.

            i still dont call all that was done, a response.

            Right fleets for almost all timers is not a response. You're an idiot.

            December 24, 2011 at 7:22 pm
          9. Jarod

            3 out of 31 stations are in goons hands. Theres a long way of grinding before branch is theirs. – This is why a "blitzkrieg" assault doesnt exist in eve. Sov rules dont allow it. I stand by my opinion until proven otherwise. When proven otherwise, there is no point in admitting i was wrong, because opinions matter nothing when they are proven wrong.

            Unlike you, im not here to prove a point. Im not here to raise my e-pride. I spoke my mind, if it bothers u, sorry.. go knock on someone else's door.

            And i wasnt wrong about IT. I have my standards, u have urs. Mine are higher. To me, a response actually achieves something, throwing fleets out just for the sake of doing it, is nothing to me. IT havent stalled the war once, not even once!

            December 25, 2011 at 6:13 pm
          10. AAA Grunt

            LoL yeah that fight did happen in Hed, but you forgot to say that when we entered the battle NC. and WN stopped attacking each other. All fire was put onto our fleet. PL was not in system yet.

            December 19, 2011 at 9:22 pm
          11. Jarod

            I wasnt making a battlereport. I saw the whole fight mate :)
            You guys actually did good against all those peepz. You were actually pounding WN pretty well until Ncdot showed up.

            I also know where PL was, sitting on the titan. I saw them.

            ps. im on your side. that is, blue to you.

            December 19, 2011 at 11:07 pm
    4. supsup

      if by "accident", NCdot and PL end up with WN and Raiden again…

      I laughed at this part.

      What part of DRF pets don't people understand. Is it the DRF part or the Pets part (paid or not)

      December 19, 2011 at 8:35 pm Reply
    5. Lorren Canada

      PL is not taking contracts

      December 20, 2011 at 1:49 am Reply
  28. African

    There is going to be a lot of stressed lines across these new front lines.

    Plus I expect a lot of other Alliances and griefers to get on these KB.

    Nice hot festive season hey.

    December 19, 2011 at 6:18 pm Reply
    1. Imigo

      Removed double post.

      December 19, 2011 at 9:34 pm Reply
  29. AAA

    Red alliance and pets are going "UH OH!" cause they about to lose all their regions

    December 19, 2011 at 6:21 pm Reply
    1. seph

      Goonion is invading north, though if red alliance can't hold its own in the south mabey.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:23 am Reply
      1. The Observer

        they've been giving good fights all around. maybe now PL and NC. will fuck off and go let -A- take back catch.

        December 20, 2011 at 4:47 am Reply
  30. CCP FML

    I foresee another super nerf soon.

    "Titan guns are now unable to hit anything smaller than a dread or carrier".

    December 19, 2011 at 8:38 pm Reply
  31. wait-what

    to shut up the goons all it would take is a concentrated effort from all in game… Even in history noted enemy's will come togther to wage war on those that they find untollerable. The fact that GSF has waged war on highsec, and left alies to fend for themselves for the Lolz says that they should be crushed.

    40k pilots against 1 Alliance ….. I like those odds … and for those goons that are going to flame this post ..remember BOB … they thought they could do what you are doing now…. and they are no more…

    Believe me if The Matani's statment ring true, and that they are trying to force people to quite the game in order to say they won .. CCP might have somthing to say about that. people not logging in = loss of revenue for CCP = a bunch of banned goon's….

    just sayin'

    December 19, 2011 at 9:08 pm Reply
    1. Imigo

      Noted enemy's? Statment? Ring true? Quite the game? And amongst all that you suggest that the vengeance of highsec dwellers should be of concern for ANY nullsec alliance, and that Goons playing the game by defeating their enemies and creating compelling game content will get them banned.

      6/10, too obvious.

      December 19, 2011 at 9:32 pm Reply
    2. Toby

      Good luck. You can call it the "High-Sec" coalition cause it seems those are the only ones complaining.

      December 20, 2011 at 10:23 am Reply
  32. CFCer

    Posters here make me die laughing. You guys mouth off talking smack about CFC and their 'pets' like you have any idea what it's like to be a member. Meanwhile, we're all having a blast playing EVE blowing your ships up while you're forced to cry here with your misplaced sense of superiority. Clearly you guys are doing it right and we should reconsider what we're doing in this game…

    December 19, 2011 at 9:35 pm Reply
  33. a goon

    Vale is burning !!! … oh wait … Branch is Burning !!! Please Help ! :)

    December 19, 2011 at 10:32 pm Reply
  34. SomeDude

    GOONS are going to war with WN know one will no till it happens who is going to help WN.

    RA will not go up north they have a shitestorm down south in an WAR with -A-+Co..

    December 19, 2011 at 11:08 pm Reply
  35. zagnut

    Lotta goons took an arrow to the knee, doubtful they'll have the numbers for a serious campaign.

    December 20, 2011 at 11:40 am Reply
  36. Socrates

    No WN fleet has been seen in Branch for 2 days now.
    Is been reported that several WN Jump Freighters has been seen to evacuate assets from Branch.
    Maybe WN is not willing to fight in the North?
    Or maybe they have indeed serious internal problems.

    December 20, 2011 at 2:07 pm Reply
  37. Tez

    This is the most half-assed 'news' article I've ever seen on this website, and that's saying something considering Riverini writes articles here, too.

    December 20, 2011 at 6:37 pm Reply
  38. […] seems that White Noise had a meeting of their own which, like the last State of the Goonion, shortly found its way to we in audio form and is posted, along with a summary, over at EVE News […]

    December 27, 2011 at 5:05 pm
  39. […] seems that White Noise had a meeting of their own which, like the last State of the Goonion, shortly found its way to we in audio form and is posted, along with a summary, over at EVE News […]

    December 27, 2011 at 5:25 pm

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