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Our guest is rmfHorus (or guy who owned the character beforehand). The interview took roughly 4 hours and it was definitely an very interesting one. Mostly because we spoke about things, that i haven´t even imagined existed or was even remotely possible. Conducted by Czech Lion.

How long have you been playing Eve and have you played other mmorpgs before?

Eve since summer 2005-2006 , i was in lotka volterra , i play mmporg since 1996, beta of ultima online.

We already covered some of your ventures in this interview – link http://www.evenews24.com/2010/09/30/all-that-you-wanted-to-know-about-dead-terrorists-and-were-afraid-to-ask/ for which you were kicked from Dead Terrorists, that later lost everything several weeks ago. But lets focus on RMT – real money trade….when did the idea to make cash in game came to your mind?

Yeah but i am like an octopus, being involved in many alliance in many forms. so i am part of many things is just that not always, i reveal who i am. like happened with horus. As i writed in the forums, i was already rich over 200b, a titan and a ms, but then i decided that i not wanna shoot red cross in belt, and looked around for a bot, (i was quad bot mining in ultima for example), the idea of make money it comes to me, when bot tecnology changed, and was able to run multiple bot on one computer. so the income spiked, from a 30b/month, to 200b+ that is much more than what i needed even for play spy game, corrupt ppl, and fly titans and ms, withouth care to lose them.

Looking at other games, you think in Eve it is fairly safe and easy to make such ammount of ingame money?

IS not that is safe, tbh eve require much more than botting in wow, you need to know fittings, zone, to have standings, logistics, properly ship and char. but exatly for all of this, the eve currency value more. together with the eve online system, you can make a titan by yourself, but you can buy one. so isk in eve give you access to everything, even items that are very hard to obtain alone.

So the currency valor, of eve isk, is superior, and more stable than gold in wow for example i not have a graphics for you but wow gold dropped in price of about 80% in 3 year, where 3 year ago 1b eve isk where going for 45$, now goes for 33-35, so losed only around 30% ?

Also farm gold in wow is no risk, no one can kill you in majority of zones, where in eve even bots, risk to die, this augment the real value of eve currency.

So when did you start transferring isk to RL cash and how did you do it?

I transferd isk or better , a titan first, becouse i needed money for buy a new pc, and a guy in initiative make me a good proposition, char+titan, 1800 euro, i was ok becouse anyway i was rich enought for buy another 3-4 and was anyway already making 30b/month with h-bot.

So nothing was planned, happened, it happened in past with some items-account, currency, of other games, i play usually so much that i become rich in any mmporg i play, at level which my money is more than enough to play with top items. So why keep extra?

That was all normal transfers via paypals.

But when bot technology changed and i arrived at peeks of 280b/month, i started to think, how to sell such isk amounts without being caught. I exploited market, contacts, even Chribba, by selling ms-titan thrue Chribba basicly to myself, only to move “in a legit way” huge amounts of isk.

////////// SCREENSHOT OF RMFHORUS BOT SETUP ///////////

I heard chinese isk farmer term, are they a big part of the business? and have you had any interaction with them?

I used them until they changed theyr politics, from buy big stock and sell by themself, (risking theyr accounts, to : we give you the name of the client you send money you take the risk of ban, we pay you.

So i started stolen theyr customers, offering them to pay 30/b instead 35-37, payng me directly avoiding the chinese intermediation (basically as chinese used me in past to buy cheap isk at 25$/b i stole their “part” of customer)

But yes they own the market, totally, only a minor part is american or eu 20% at maximum.

They are vicious greedy bastards, now even reversing the risk of bans to theyr isk supplyer (90% of them normal player who have more isk than they need, or maybe some alliance leeder, (that where i think goes majority of mongoo).

So how is the money transferred mostly? Paypal/bank account?
Most used : Paypal, Moneybookers , only for bigger amount bank accounts. (happened only once when i selled 350b to oofay)

Considering the ammounts you just described, it seems there must be huge demand from eve population to buy isk. How many customers you supported?

Around 300 are on my msn. With a daily request that not absorb more than 80% of my income
i do daily around.

How much si the average transaction and how you deliver the isk?

500ml x 12.I usually wait to have orders for 20b at minimum, so once every 4-5 days i make a new account, transfer the isk in various amounts, rarely 500000, more like 455448 , than make contacts, this account will be banned in 3-8 day usually cause he made like 20x contacts between 500ml and 5b (contracts).

Average order is 2-3b so 90$ for each transfer.

Could you describe little bit how you use the bots to generate isk you sell later on?

How i use the bot do everything alone, including re-start after server downtime, i do only some daily check, like if all bot are alive, (only way to kill them is by using a blue spy for tackle one of my bot)
anyway if a bot dies, he transfers information of hex code, of the killer, to others bots, who place it on a blacklist. So after the first loss, all others bots, if the “blacklisted” blue enter on sys, warp to safe and cloak up.

To explain, the bot does find the NPC´s, kills them, reloads ammo and extracts loot?

I don´t make them loot, unless is an officer-faction spawn. They have an exact list of npc to kill (they chain) and npc to loot. Usually i chain all spawn 1,5ml x 3 + to every 20 min a good bot does, 12-15ml
that means that a bot user pretty much can lose a fleet fitted drake every hour or a carrier daily
or a ms every month and still be in green with profit.

The average bot goes from 400 to 600ml day of liquid isk + officer+faction, so from 12 to 18b month
+ extra if you are lucky what officer/faction dropped. That means pretty much play eve as immortal, since none of what you lose, touches you for really. Where maybe others played years to reach a ms or a titan.

How many bots you ahve used in time?

from 1 to 3, to 12

What kind of software you used for this and have you done some personal scripts for it?

H bot is pretty much done, you set up it in 10 min, through a pdf, but “it holds an entire pc for work” since it reads pixels. iskexeve-innerspace, read clients memory, so they don´t block mouse, run multiple bot sessions,

Yes i added many scripts, together with a friend. Like logs, even sms alarm when good loot is founded,
fact is with some script ability this bot can do anything in eve.

Including a script for running multiple bots, for command 10 dreads on pvp, all bots need to do is follow fc primary rights? so if fc use the in game tools, bot can follow, same for r-r cast/broadcast, and about personal rep, is already implemented at certain of % of armor/shield it repairs, you can even say to him repair at 80% armor but not go under 75% cap

Bots can loot only faction-officer than warp into a pos or giant, and deposit such loot, take more ammo and return to rattting.

This means the bot software can read the eve client data?

Totally

I lived under the impression that this would be impossible, as it should be CCP interest to prevent such programs to influence ingame experience…..

If you eliminate the local windows or delay it, is purely at level of “windows” in eve, the client continues to receive info that xxx ship is jumped and is from xxx alliance, and the bot reads it.

CCP have no interest in removal of bots, because more bots = more clients, and trust me none of bot user pay the subscription, they buy gtc. so they use a shitload of gtc, buyed legally. For every bots there is a gtc, in game, buyed from ccp, at a cost that is higher, than what you can buy from chinese.

At this moment chinese isk are much cheaper and ccp won´t fight you, until you do real money trade. They allow you to do only rmt that benefits them. CCP is like a country that says : this is legalized drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, thos are cool to buy even if you buy them with mafia money, other drugs are not cool becouse we don´t have any income from them.

So you say CCP is well aware of the client problem that can be so easily exploited?

Oh yes, and is also easy to avoid it, i was admin on esl (european sports league) in some fps
i fighted wallhackers and aimbotters, so know how to prevent reading and injecting a client.)

The fact is they have no interest on removing botters that use only isk to buy gtc, and not do RMT, because thats more income from them. If they really wanna fight botters, they need to lower thr GTC price, and make a sort of punk-buster to protect the client.

How did you kept your accounts off the ccp radar, that hold all the isk you didn´t sell?

Mine is a particular case. I use a remote desktop control to run my bots, from my pc in another house in another city. So the pc i use for play, eve , with my non bot accounts, don´t have any ip related with bots.
I don´t even ever logged my “legit” account on the pc on the other house. If i travel i use another pc, a laptop. Anyone can do it even from the same house, just sorting up a proxy connection.

What is a proxy connection? long story short you access on internet throug another pc, who “mask your ip” there is many free proxy around, ppl can just google it (just a note, the remote desktop control program is, teamviewer)

If you note the screenshoot of multiple bot runned on a pc, on my windows bar there are 2 teamviewers open.
Thx to teamviewer also i can control my bots even when i travel, with a wi-fi connection pen, :)

How much roughly you sold to players over the whole time period? (in isk and dollars/euros )

roughly in 9 months 1.2 trillion isk for around 55k euro
and i have still around 600b on my accounts that i use for play
with a monthly average isk generation of 240-280b

How many systems you need for your bots? and how did you find corporations to put them into?

6-7. It´s not systems it´s mainly belts you need 7 belts for bot to be most efficient in isk income/chaining
so sys with 12-14 belt can handle 2 bots
sys with 20 3 bots etc.

Some corp are tollerant, like “some russians”, other dont know or dont give a fuck about what i do, so i make fake corps, i join in 30-40 trial char just for make it appear not a 1 man corp, pay rent to ally like razor, or solar. Than exploit their long blue standings to find where to bot peacefully.

Npc regions are better cause bigger spawns and bigger % of faction-officer.

Renting groups ask ask stupid amount like 500m-1b /month
:)
Pretty much at this level a single man, with an infinite isk supply, can provide to the needs of an alliance of 3k+ ppl, including all reimbursement programs, hiring mercs like PL etc.

Alliance fights, got all dps, moons and resource, when with this system, is like you own what, 20+ technetium moons that are impossible to lose and to remove.

When you dealt with the brokers and customers, you must have stumbled into other isk sellers as well. What alliance have highest count of bots in them / rmt players?

I am 1 man but if a group of ppl with 5 bot each x 20, can pretty much after 1 month equip 50 ms, and steamroll entire eve. It is hard to say who rmt, and who use isk for supercaps, but for sure, the drone regions have the biggest % of botters in eve. Mainly in their renter outlets.

From single alliance, white noise-rol-stain empire-goonswarm have the highest %.

You think alliance leadership knows about this in general?

Of course. I think tbh that the entire xdeathx solar , renting empire is based on giving region on corner of map who allow their renters to macromining with 20x hulk (things that i saw personally when i was running the experimental alliance spire collective)

… it is a certain fact, i saw from forums of bots, russian forum, proof on field, and my experience on drone region with irc, and spire. also a good % of xdeathx pilot have alts in fake corps in shadow for botting
thats why theyr rent is also so high, they where asking spire for 2 bad constellation 14/b month
not that i cared much, becouse i was payng it by myself for the alliance, but i saw single corp of 20 member owning more and better space, so they where payng 20+b, impossible to handle with normal isk income.

You mentioned chribba in your answers. How does the trade works with him on order to get the isk of The accounts in question?

you sell yourself titan-ms, so the money comes from bot to chribba to seller account, titan returns to legit account and done :)

You resell the char that you used for board the titan on the non legit-account, but this is only one of the methods and is only worth for tranfer 100b+ .

How much is the chribba charge any way for transfers?

300m or so…..lol

What is the impact on eve community regarding thes bots? Do you think it really destroys the game or as some suggest, if CCP doesnt care we shouldnt too?

I think that with whis new generation, eve is pretty much rotten, from the core, when ppl like me will organize not at individual level but with 5-10 ppl, will sort up alliance with infinite and untouchable income able to born in 2 month and able to field 100ms.

With only 300-400 real players in PL in this sense is an expression of this, since 80% of the isk they received from russian is from bots. What i am afraid is when ppl will do this at pro level, only for the purpose to own and steamroll.

Every game that will become heavy bot, or read cheat inflactioned, is indeed destinate to fall. Eve was cool becouse had limited number of exploits, impossible to cheat without bugs, now? is like a 3rd series free mmporg fps with aimbotter and wallhacker. It will lose all credibility, than clients.

Is there a way out of this? for CCP and can players do something about it?

Lower GTC cost to make chinese isk not convenient anymore, or and, a punk-buster sort of program who block injection on eve client. And add other server-client code side interventions.

Well now that you exposed your secrets, do you plan to continue in RMT? If you could explain what was the reason, why you shared all the details?

Of course. I already reached my goals, that was an experiment, is not that i base my life on it, on eve currency.

If I continue to work, if one day they gonna bans my bots, fine, anyway my others accounts are not in any way linked to the bots,so will be in no danger and 600b is enought for continue play eve from now to 2030,
my aim is now to make eve clear. If i don´t succeed, hey at least i can say unlike the silent majority, I tried to do something about it.

thank you for the interview :)

Thx to you.

96 Comments

  1. and also this bot looks not so good theres better out there. the market bots also pull in a lot

    December 11, 2010 at 4:22 pm Reply
  2. blah blah blah blah also? blah

    December 11, 2010 at 4:23 pm Reply
  3. […] discussion still rages on, with no comment or acknowledgement from CCP. EVE News 24 released the 3rd part of their in-depth look at the botting scandal in a interview with a big time RMTer.  We actually […]

    December 13, 2010 at 6:22 am
  4. […] Part 1: Former AAA Leader explains Part 2: Introduction and examples Part 3: Interview with biggest RMTrader Part 4: CCP Devblog […]

    December 14, 2010 at 11:43 pm
  5. :)

    oh look i’m important, playing mmog’s since 1813, was admin in top 3 global esport-leagues, besides being ceo of one of the worlds biggest companies. and because i can’t be arsed, i’m also making a million $ per week with rmt and molle is reporting to me. did i mention i’m important?

    tbh: i don’t doubt the written stuff is true, it’s just the chestbeating attitude this guy has which is annoying. btw: i don’t know if there are any relations, but the constant linking and mentioning of this bot is.. yeah. bet their sales numbers went through the roof.

    December 15, 2010 at 10:25 am Reply
  6. wow

    Did anyone notice that Eve666 forgot to remove his name from local, and blot out his portrait from both local, and the local list?

    Did you notice there’s no standing icon next to the matching portraits. Ding ding Ding.. Eve666 a bot. Stella Polaris entire lot of bots. Eve666 is located in w3kk in Venal.

    December 19, 2010 at 3:57 am Reply
  7. […] alliance overall staged a coup against rmfHorus (Yes that tool from the RMT […]

    December 23, 2010 at 8:58 pm
  8. amazing interview

    Thank you very much for this – awesome interview!

    February 2, 2011 at 12:17 am Reply
  9. […] and what he is capable of doing. Let’s start by saying that A PUPPETMASTER is none other than RMFHorus. Described by some as “an isk farmer who considers himself God” (not my words) he is […]

    January 17, 2012 at 4:11 am

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